The solution to chain rattle

[AWW]

I have read a lot on the chain rattle issue as my 2004 S4 has this problem too. I would really like to know what the difference is between a V8 that does and doesn't rattle before I go to the trouble of hauling the engine out and spending a large sum of money on replacements parts. I can appreciate that the plastic chain tensioners wear but what else does to cause this. When new, I presume that no matter what, there is no rattle on start up. As the engine ages something must change to release the tension on the chains until the oil pressure gets up. May be there is no one faulty item but a combination of wear on a number of components. I would really appreciate people's views on this as I prefer to completely understand what is going on in this engine. I really like the idea of the Accusump. Before I read this thread I had thought of hooking up an external oil pump but this is far simpler and glad to see it works. Regardless of chain rattle it has got to be good for the health of the engine.

[CoolHeadS4]

Would you guys use a different oil filter canister cover if it allowed plumbing of an accusump? I'm going to try to source a canister cover so our machine shop can figure out how easy it would be.

That could be an interesting solution. Just wondering about the amount of clearance there is between the cover and the hood.

[Dirtracer603]

A pressure accumulator wont really assist with timing componets longivity prior to chain rattle. It treats the symptoms that have already occured.

[Canton Racing]

I have read a lot on the chain rattle issue as my 2004 S4 has this problem too. I would really like to know what the difference is between a V8 that does and doesn't rattle before I go to the trouble of hauling the engine out and spending a large sum of money on replacements parts. I can appreciate that the plastic chain tensioners wear but what else does to cause this. When new, I presume that no matter what, there is no rattle on start up. As the engine ages something must change to release the tension on the chains until the oil pressure gets up. May be there is no one faulty item but a combination of wear on a number of components. I would really appreciate people's views on this as I prefer to completely understand what is going on in this engine. I really like the idea of the Accusump. Before I read this thread I had thought of hooking up an external oil pump but this is far simpler and glad to see it works. Regardless of chain rattle it has got to be good for the health of the engine.

That is a very good point to add. Regardless of if it will actually help the chain rattle, a lot of people use the accusump to pre oil the motor just to prevent the components from being exposed to pre start scuffing. The reason I ask if anyone brings them to the track is because that's where the Accusump really get the core of its value. If you go hard into a corner or series of corners and lose pressure the Accusump reacts and compensates for the loss of pressure to make sure you don't cook your motor because of the loss of oiling.

[0000 V8]

Canton Racing, sent you a PM.

[s2carlo]

so, finally got around to the photos & write up.
Tried to put it in a few pictures, some thanks to Latosa.

First the sensor location:
[IMG][/IMG]

Original oilsensor & adapter taken out:

[IMG][/IMG]


Parts used & write up:

[IMG][/IMG]



Where I put my accusump. Due to the long hose with a lot of corners pre-charging takes a litle longer.
I am thinking of hardducting under the car, straight forward..

[IMG][/IMG]

Hope this helps.
Other ideas are in Latosa's posting

[Ali]

Would you guys use a different oil filter canister cover if it allowed plumbing of an accusump? I'm going to try to source a canister cover so our machine shop can figure out how easy it would be.

I'm also curious as to how many of you guys bring these to the track with any frequency.

any word on this? I can send you mine if that will move things along.

[0000 V8]

Anyone know what threads are on the converter piece between the oil filter hoisin and OE oil pressure señor? It's show in the pic with his hand.

EDIT: Nevermind, Im pretty sure its 1/2"

[0000 V8]

Ok guys, this is what I came up with (the American version). After PMing Canton Racing with no response, I decided to do it myself and cut out the middle man. Ive found customer service in the motorsports world to be horrendous, so I didnt want to wait any longer. Their loss.

- Canton Racing supplied hose fitting (1/2" female threads)
- 1/2" female to female connector with 1/8" female side hole
- 1/8" T-fitting all female threads
- Two 1/2" male threaded barb fitting, for 1/2" inside diameter hose

My plan is to plug one barb fitting (shown below and to the side) into the stock threads of the connector piece between the oil filter housing and the OE oil pressure sensor. This way I can cut a hose and mount the assembly anywhere I want. The open space on the T-fitting will be for the OE oil pressure sensor, and the sensor on the left is my AEM oil pressure sensor for my AEM gauge.

Ill post this in my build thread as well.

[Teerump]

Subscribed

[Canton Racing]

Sorry for the lack of response. Our product engineer had been seriously injured a couple weeks ago and is trying to ease back. In the mean time we have all been trying to pick up the slack. I also made the mistake of not clicking to get alerts from this thread and so I was unaware of any PM's or thread updates. At the moment we are trying to locate a stock piece. I'm also in the process of trying to get proof of enough of a market to convince our GM that it is a worthwhile part to put the time into engineering. I will try to keep you guys update.

[peterk81]

Canton Racing - I am 25 minutes north of Branford if you need to borrow my car for a weekend(2005.5 b7 S4). Please PM if you would like to discuss.

Pete

[cali kid]

A lot of useful and intriguing information! subscribed.

[Latosa]

Guys hello again after putting my accusump system to service since several months ago I have not had any problems at all ,not even with the air charge service ,the chain RATTLE is gone.The fitting on the sender was always my concern thats why I did a custom fitting by welding it to my installation specs ,I was thinking to feed the system thru the filter but that required drilling and tapping threds on plastic housing so if canton racing comes with a billet housing I will be on it.By the way fedding the system thru the canister would be on the center of the housing were the socket shape is.So any questions that might be helpfull to any you guys go right ahead and shoot me a pm or thru here.Also as for the location best is under the front lower grill some mods required is the best place I think shorter hose direct delivery.

[Latosa]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Latebraker22]

Subscribed. Definately in for this.

[Ali]

another location point which I tested and looked to work fine is the stock battery location. using one of the mini performance batteries that are available now I could easily fit the accusump and battery in the stock compartment. For those that dont like running a smaller battery relocating the the full size battery to the back is also an option but thats probably more so for the sedan guys.

[Canton Racing]

Does anyone have the OE part number for the filter cap?

[Ali]

Does anyone have the OE part number for the filter cap?

here is the correct part number, sorry for the wrong one earlier: 077115433B

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_S4-...over/ES282554/

[Canton Racing]

Anyone who is interested in this please email [email protected] in order to convince our GM to spend the time machining this adapter I have to show proof that there is actual interest in the product. Just send an email with some vehicle information and what your looking to do so I can print them and show him.

[0000 V8]

Anyone who is interested in this please email [email protected] in order to convince our GM to spend the time machining this adapter I have to show proof that there is actual interest in the product. Just send an email with some vehicle information and what your looking to do so I can print them and show him.

You may want to start a new thread as well, to get visibility. Maybe wait a couple days to see how many emails you get first though.

Im also willing to bet if you tell people who email that they can be a part of a discounted group buy, more people will take the time to do it.

[Canton Racing]

You may want to start a new thread as well, to get visibility. Maybe wait a couple days to see how many emails you get first though.

Im also willing to bet if you tell people who email that they can be a part of a discounted group buy, more people will take the time to do it.

Im trying to make sure it's something that our GM is willing to put the R & D time behind before diving into another thread and a group buy. Definitely a good idea though.

[Canton Racing]

Thanks for the response guys. We are sourcing a cap now so that we can R & D a new cap to make the install straight forward and easy. It will most likely be a billet oil filter cap with a bung in it that will allow you to easily plumb the Accusump without making any permanent changes. The cap will also most likely be billet aluminum so it will be a nice upgrade from the plastic piece (I think it's plastic). Anyone who wants to be involved please email [email protected] the more people I get the easier I can get the project pushed through. The parts you will need are: Oil Filter Adapter, Accusump, Valve, Line and Fittings. Once I have a good idea on the cost of the adapter I can throw out a price for the full set up to anyone that emails us.

[labmat]

I did my part and sent a message to your Marketing department, lets get his done... ;)

[Latebraker22]

email sent....

[Canton Racing]

Thanks guys. The response has been more then sufficient to catch some attention. We have our new products meetings on thursday where I will present the information and then we will go from there. I will keep you all updated.

[0000 V8]

You're too late. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...3#post80868753

[IslandHydro]

You're too late. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...3#post80868753

A couple questions: Are you thinking some sort of quick connect fitting screwed into this cap, such that you could unhook the accusump hose to spin off the filter cap during oil changes? Under normal circumstances, does the oil drain out of the filter with the engine off? If so, does air pressure build up in the filter prior to oil filling it up? And if that happens, what are the odds that you'd fill up the accusump with air rather than oil, rendering it rather useless?

[Canton Racing]

Our adapter will most likely have a 1/2 NPT fitting to make it easier to plumb fittings instead of having a 17mm drain plug. We will try to source some sort of quick disconnect fitting to go with them or to offer as an option. From what I understand of the way the motors are setup the oil does not drain out of the filters after they are shut off. In this setup all you would be doing is increasing the amount of oil being held in and after the oil filter. When the car is shut off it would hold that oil. To ensure that the Accusump doesn't overcome this pressure and discharge after you shut the engine off you would have to close the valve on the Accusump before shutting the car off.

[0000 V8]

Our adapter will most likely have a 1/2 NPT fitting to make it easier to plumb fittings instead of having a 17mm drain plug. We will try to source some sort of quick disconnect fitting to go with them or to offer as an option. From what I understand of the way the motors are setup the oil does not drain out of the filters after they are shut off. In this setup all you would be doing is increasing the amount of oil being held in and after the oil filter. When the car is shut off it would hold that oil. To ensure that the Accusump doesn't overcome this pressure and discharge after you shut the engine off you would have to close the valve on the Accusump before shutting the car off.

Canton Racing,

If you end up finding a good quick disconnect, Id be interested in getting it. I assume it will have to retain the 1/2" or even 3/8" inside diamter, something close to the hose ID. I can tap my new aluminum top for any size fitting. And FYI, you may want to look at 90 degree fittings.

Justin

[IslandHydro]

Canton Racing,

If you end up finding a good quick disconnect, Id be interested in getting it. I assume it will have to retain the 1/2" or even 3/8" inside diamter, something close to the hose ID. I can tap my new aluminum top for any size fitting. And FYI, you may want to look at 90 degree fittings.

Justin

0000 V8, have you found a valve yet? Are you going to have it be manual or automatic?

[0000 V8]

0000 V8, have you found a valve yet? Are you going to have it be manual or automatic?

I don't understand what you're asking. Found a valve?

[IslandHydro]

I don't understand what you're asking. Found a valve?

Sorry, I had only seen the version that didn't include a valve that controls filling / discharge. Based on your response I just went and looked and I see that it is optionally sold with a solinoid valve. Anyone know how this valve is configured / operates?

[IslandHydro]

I'm probably wearing out my welcome, but... In looking at the complexity of this, and how we're gonna end up getting a 1 quart shot of oil out of the deal, I'm wondering if a pump such as
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Heavy-Du...0f353e&vxp=mtr might not be a better option? It can pull oil from 5 feet down, so it doesnt need to be down low. Only downside (that I can see) is that you''d have to make two oil connections instead of one. Throw a pressure (low=on) activated switch on it, and it will shut off automatically once your main oil pump gets up to speed. Thoughts?

[IslandHydro]

Fleshing out the pre-oiler (pump version) concept:

Pump: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Heavy-Du...0f353e&vxp=mtr
Pressure Switch: http://www.omega.com/Pressure/pdf/PSW-190.pdf
Check Valve: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...5615_200335615

I'd envision a feed from the oil pan to the pump, then check valve, then pressure switch, then feed to the oil filter. The system could be totally automatic, with the pressure switch engaging the pump whenever the pressure dropped below a set pressure (eg 30 psi). I know this is not a new concept, but I wonder how it compares operationally (and ease of install) to the accusump. All said I think it's more compact than the accusump, and would provide a steady oil pressure / feed rather than a single shot. Thoughts?

[Guitarmageddon]

[0000 V8]

Fleshing out the pre-oiler (pump version) concept:

Pump: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Heavy-Du...0f353e&vxp=mtr
Pressure Switch: http://www.omega.com/Pressure/pdf/PSW-190.pdf
Check Valve: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...5615_200335615

I'd envision a feed from the oil pan to the pump, then check valve, then pressure switch, then feed to the oil filter. The system could be totally automatic, with the pressure switch engaging the pump whenever the pressure dropped below a set pressure (eg 30 psi). I know this is not a new concept, but I wonder how it compares operationally (and ease of install) to the accusump. All said I think it's more compact than the accusump, and would provide a steady oil pressure / feed rather than a single shot. Thoughts?

Just get an Accusump and dont waste your time on this. They are proven in racing applications and have become the standard.

[Ali]

If anyone is interested in an accusump, I have a new 1Qt kit which I bought a while back but never used and am now going a different path. Please PM me if interested, willing to make a good deal.
Thanks.

[paul61]

Some interesting reading!
Dunno if I'm sold on the accumulator preventing further guide damage on the S4 but........many used it on the drag cars to prevent premature thrust bearing failure from using Lenco transmissions (no neutral).
It absolutely can't hurt, thats for sure!

[ProgMetalHead]

LOL!

Is chain rattle that grindy noise my car makes for half a second when I turn it on?

What is that annoying whine the car does on really cold starts that doesn't go away until RPMs drop to idle 800?