opinion on e85

[l_prettyman]

ive recently chosen APRs 93 stage 2 tune. i have 91,93 and 100 octane tunes. As e85 is 100-103 octane, what is everyones opinion on running it through on the 100 octane tune? i'd leave some 93 octane in my tank (1/4 tank maybe) and fill up on e85. This would only be a weekend type thing just to try it out and enjoy the tune. Risk/ Benefit? Opinions? Oh and btw if anyone remembers me from the perfect wheel fitment thread, adapters will be here on monday so be on the lookout for that picture thread :)

[p1nk50ck]

ive recently chosen APRs 93 stage 2 tune. i have 91,93 and 100 octane tunes. As e85 is 100-103 octane, what is everyones opinion on running it through on the 100 octane tune? i'd leave some 93 octane in my tank (1/4 tank maybe) and fill up on e85. This would only be a weekend type thing just to try it out and enjoy the tune. Risk/ Benefit? Opinions? Oh and btw if anyone remembers me from the perfect wheel fitment thread, adapters will be here on monday so be on the lookout for that picture thread :)

if memory serves me correctly, mixing octanes doesn't really equate to lowering octane levels (e.g. - 1/2 tank of 93 octane and 1/2 tank of 89 octane does not really yield 91 octane). I would just run a full tank of e85 as soon as your 93 tank runs dry. you can always go over, it's bad to go under (it's fine to run 93 octane gas on a 91 octane tune than vice versa).

[swoardrider]

I think E85 will eat all your hoses and seals up!

[DRAKLORE]

I would love to know if anyone has done a hose/seal conversion to run E85

If like to know which seals and hoses would be ok to keep

[martin0079]

I would love to know if anyone has done a hose/seal conversion to run E85

If like to know which seals and hoses would be ok to keep

I will be running E85 on my S4 and the only issue guys have had with the hoses is if the car is not a dd and you let it sit the hoses tend to swell and leak. You can convert to ptfe fuel lines as they swell. I would be way more concerned about the hpfp seal.

Mixing octanes does equate to lower octane levels. The gas stations in the NE take on 87 oct and 93 oct and for 91 oct a mixing pump is used. If this was not the case an octane booster would do nothing.

[yungcotter]

If I remember correctly our fuel systems are only good to up to a 30% mixture of ethanol not 85% so it will eat through fuel lines and seals. I alo think you need a tune for it as you need more fuel when you use ethanol.

[Charles.waite]

You're asking for trouble putting E85 in one of our cars without prepping the fuel system...

[CorneliusRox]

Sprode (I think that's his name), has done some grad work into this.

This is basically what I now, some say it eats lines, but that has never really been proven, and I personally think it's BS.
It is equivalent to a higher octane (lets say 110 race gas), however it doesnt put out the same BTU's so you need more of it.
Since volume and pressure of fuel is and has always been an issue with our cars, I wouldnt recommend it until there are better solutions in place.

Bigger injectors would be a must, then a hpfp that could keep up, and then a lpfp that could keep up.

[l_prettyman]

I think E85 will eat all your hoses and seals up!

Will just one tank do it or prolonged exposure?

[l_prettyman]

Also another question, would running one tank just for shits and gigs really hurt anything? If its spits and sputters at higher rpm I won't care for just a fun ride around. I won't switch to all the time use because e85 source is over an hour away from me

[p1nk50ck]

Mixing octanes does equate to lower octane levels. The gas stations in the NE take on 87 oct and 93 oct and for 91 oct a mixing pump is used. If this was not the case an octane booster would do nothing.

hrm... i'll have to dig up where i read this. I also feel like it was the same article that said "octane boosters" are also pretty much bs as well.

[martin0079]

hrm... i'll have to dig up where i read this. I also feel like it was the same article that said "octane boosters" are also pretty much bs as well.

While I do agree oct boosters are bs they do increase oct just not nearly to the claims of the manufacturer

This is an oct booster comparison with the resulting oct increase. Keep in mind this is in only RON vs the US at pump number of RON+MON/2. RON is reasearch oct number and MON is motor octane number.

http://www.fueltechexperts.com/2008/...which-is-best/

These are two links about mixing fuels together.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/vie...php?f=7&t=6945

http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Fuel/fuelchem.html

[l_prettyman]

I'm planning on filling up on e85 tomorrow. If I shouldn't, stop me now haha.

[yungcotter]

I wouldn't do it. I dont know for sure what can could or will happen but i wouldn't chance it. There could be serious problems that could endup costing big money.

[konarider94]

it has a lower air to fuel ratio for stoichiometric combustion and it has a lower energy density. there is nothing in our cars to account for the amount of alcohol in the fuel. but go ahead and ignore all that, they are just big words that dont meant anything.

edit: why did engineers do all kinds of vehicle testing and design special systems for e85 when you can clearly run it in anything? i bet since its made from corn there will be corn oil in the fuel so you can run it in 2 strokes without oil

[Vorsprung]

it has a lower air to fuel ratio for stoichiometric combustion and it has a lower energy density. there is nothing in our cars to account for the amount of alcohol in the fuel. but go ahead and ignore all that, they are just big words that dont meant anything.

made me lol.

[Charles.waite]

Fuck it OP, you seem hell bent on doing it. Go ahead, see if we care!!!

[rarak69]

figure 40% more fuel at the high end of things.

fuel system can sorta handle it, its not going to eat anything, but our DI system isnt designed for it at the end of the day, dont run it without a proper calibration.

[mr shickadance]

EFI logics in Bethel CT does A LOT of e85 subarus....for them to run the e85 (which they have dyno proven time and time again show some amazing gains) but they have like a whole pump system, new lines and thats for normal fuel injection....i'm not sure if the high pressure that the fsi engines create would have any effect between the two fuels but i do know that if EFI goes through the process of removing and replacing lines then it's not BS.

it would be cool to have someone run e85 on the b7 platform....not saying it's impossible, but i think it would be harder then one would originally anticipate

[Der Konig]

ethanol is more corrosive than say premium gasoline, not worse just corrosive. So if you don't upgrade fuel lines and any seals along with it you will eventually eat them up, not sure how long it would take though. E85 does develop more power due to higher combustibility and lower temps with a drawback in MPG, but it isn't easily converted too.

Just my 2 pennies

[l_prettyman]

ethanol is more corrosive than say premium gasoline, not worse just corrosive. So if you don't upgrade fuel lines and any seals along with it you will eventually eat them up, not sure how long it would take though. E85 does develop more power due to higher combustibility and lower temps with a drawback in MPG, but it isn't easily converted too.

Just my 2 pennies

Mpgs don't really matter as I'm just going to fill up a tank to play with and see the gains. One time use type thing. Basically what I was asking the forum is will my one time use fuck everything up? Obviously I can't just throw e85 every tank and drive but would one time hurt?

[l_prettyman]

EFI logics in Bethel CT does A LOT of e85 subarus....for them to run the e85 (which they have dyno proven time and time again show some amazing gains) but they have like a whole pump system, new lines and thats for normal fuel injection....i'm not sure if the high pressure that the fsi engines create would have any effect between the two fuels but i do know that if EFI goes through the process of removing and replacing lines then it's not BS.

it would be cool to have someone run e85 on the b7 platform....not saying it's impossible, but i think it would be harder then one would originally anticipate

I'm not trying to convert, I'm just thinking about one tank for a day to have fun. Just curious as to what my risk benefit of one tank is. And the tank would be gone by the days end.

[Jay-Bee]

Doesn't ethanol burn a lot hotter? Or because we need to use so much more to get the same power level it raises EGTs?

Or an i off here?

Shell 91 is Ethanol free... and that's all I run.

Only way I would run E85 is if I had BT and a fuel system to support it, and even then it would just be for the sunday-funday, guys that are tuned to only run E85 make amazing power in BT setups.

[Brillo]

Ethanol runs cooler than gas. Final octane rating is proportional to the mix. All stations that provide a mid-grade gasoline mix a proportionate amount of the high and low delivered to the gas station. It is mixed at the pump.

[jibatnes]

This has been a 2,5 year long active thread on the Norwegian Audi forum. Alot of the guys over here are running E85 on their 1,8t and 2,7t engines. Not seen it in any 2,0 TFSI engines yet.

None with any corrosive issues or leaking hoses/fuellines.
Ethanol is not corrosive like Methanol.

The dowsides that have been discovered here is that the Ethanol will clean out your fuellines because of the alkohol levels cleans it and prob you will have to change your fuelfilter in a while.
Your engine will be a little more diffiult to start when its really cold outside.
The consumption will increase some.

Benefits is that it is actually cheaper. (over here atleas) dont know what the costs are un US.
The engine will burn alot colder. The only documentet example ive seen on this is a friends S2. He got one program for 93 oct and one for E85. 502 dyno HP on the 93 oct. 586 dyno HP on the E85. And the combustion was 150 degrees celcius colder than with 93 oct.

The problems most have run into is that the amount of fuel needs to be increased alot to make it work proberly. Change of injectors, fuelpumps and so on. You need alot more of E85 compared to normal octane to get the right mix. Prob not good for our cars since the issues with the fuelsystem already.

Ofcourse you will get the best HP benefits with the right tune and all, but all that have talked about this here have good experience with it on the engines i specified above.

Would i recommend for your car: No. Not without any decent logging, AFR measuring, monitored in a dyno or something for the first times.

[martin0079]

Doesn't ethanol burn a lot hotter? Or because we need to use so much more to get the same power level it raises EGTs?

Or an i off here?

Shell 91 is Ethanol free... and that's all I run.

Only way I would run E85 is if I had BT and a fuel system to support it, and even then it would just be for the sunday-funday, guys that are tuned to only run E85 make amazing power in BT setups.

Every shell gas pump I go to says contains 10% ethanol in fact it is extremely common. You are more than likely running E10 or gasahol

OP: You will go lean and into limp mode if you try to run E85 on your car. I will be waiting for the I melted my engine running E85 without a proper tune.

[Charles.waite]

Every shell gas pump I go to says contains 10% ethanol in fact it is extremely common. You are more than likely running E10 or gasahol

OP: You will go lean and into limp mode if you try to run E85 on your car. I will be waiting for the I melted my engine running E85 without a proper tune.

Herein Washington, ever gas station runs about 10-12% ethanol. It's almost impossible to find gas that isn't partially ethanol. Low quantities of it re absolutely fine, and contrary to what I thought before,according to jibatnes it's pretty much fine for modern FI systems.

Tuning for the dramatically less energy per volume of ethanol is where the difficulty lies. OP don't put e85 on your car. It'll run like shit.

[l_prettyman]

OP: You will go lean and into limp mode if you try to run E85 on your car. I will be waiting for the I melted my engine running E85 without a proper tune.

This is the responce i was looking for. Not everyone saying go for it and kicking around the bush. Getting mixed emotions about this but i'll just make the even longer trip to Western MD to get 260 GT fuel. Thanks for the info