B8 A4 intercooler comparison thread

[blbroo]

Well I just snagged a brand new one on ebay for $150 shipped, so it looks like I'll be giving it a shot! You guys are bad for my credit card.

Nice! I found mine on eBay too. Was an open box and cost me less than $100.

LOL to this crap!
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...e=off&tbm=shop

[Lambda13]

Well I just snagged a brand new one on ebay for $150 shipped, so it looks like I'll be giving it a shot! You guys are bad for my credit card.

I wish I had the same luck you guys did. Still paid a fraction of the cost of the pre-built kits though.

[asfastas63]

Nice! I found mine on eBay too. Was an open box and cost me less than $100.

LOL to this crap!
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...e=off&tbm=shop

Damn I was looking into the tubing/clamps and just realized the TR8 is 2.5" outlet and the TR8C is 3".

Edit: These might work, and I'm still saving $60 after the different hoses and clamps. Also it looks like the pressure drop is slightly better on this version, 1.5psi instead of 2.0psi for the TR8.
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/bendi...bow-p-910.html

Edit2: Is it worth it to spring for the eurocode HFIP to swap that out while I'm in there? Or just do the soundbox delete?

[zcspec]

I reconsidered the TR8 when Lambda13 mentioned the TR11 a while back. However, after careful considering (no disrespect to TR11 owners) what brother me most, I didn't like the fact that some of the IC was blocked by the crash bar. I am aware that it still functions very well, but the OCD in me MADE be believe it's best not being blocked to receive maximum air flow. That's just me though...

[Lambda13]

I reconsidered the TR8 when Lambda13 mentioned the TR11 a while back. However, after careful considering (no disrespect to TR11 owners) what brother me most, I didn't like the fact that some of the IC was blocked by the crash bar. I am aware that it still functions very well, but the OCD in me MADE be believe it's best not being blocked to receive maximum air flow. That's just me though...

Its about 1/4 of an inch of the crash bar. Still more air reaching it then the TR8. It's mounted to the bottom, so the only overlap is the tiny bulge each leading edge has.

EDIT: The TR11 is the same size as the Eurocode FMIC.

[blbroo]

Damn I was looking into the tubing/clamps and just realized the TR8 is 2.5" outlet and the TR8C is 3".

Edit: These might work, and I'm still saving $60 after the different hoses and clamps. Also it looks like the pressure drop is slightly better on this version, 1.5psi instead of 2.0psi for the TR8.
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/bendi...bow-p-910.html

Edit2: Is it worth it to spring for the eurocode HFIP to swap that out while I'm in there? Or just do the soundbox delete?

If you opt for the delete, I can mail you some caps, then your only cost is a hose clamp. I have some extra around.

Or, you can get them at Menard's for $1.00 a pack.

[Lambda13]

If you opt for the delete, I can mail you some caps, then your only cost is a hose clamp. I have some extra around.

Or, you can get them at Menard's for $1.00 a pack.

After you send me sway bars and a calendar NOW you mention that you have some of those left? lol

[blbroo]

After you send me sway bars and a calendar NOW you mention that you have some of those left? lol

Well, um, I, you see...

Actually, I just bought more because I used them to cap off my boost tap when installing the catch can. I thought my tap had a threading for a plug, but it didn't, so I improvised.

I might have the redneckiest B8 in the world. Has two chair leg tips on it and a Ford F150 exhaust damper. yeeehaaaw

[zcspec]

Its about 1/4 of an inch of the crash bar. Still more air reaching it then the TR8. It's mounted to the bottom, so the only overlap is the tiny bulge each leading edge has.

EDIT: The TR11 is the same size as the Eurocode FMIC.

Well then...speaking from experience!

When I read the specs sheet, the TR11 read much taller than the TR8, hence my apprehension. I'm assuming the TR11 just hangs a little lower than the TR8 from the crash bar. Either way, I'm glad you guys thought outside the box and pioneered a cheaper, just as effective if not more, than the name brand manufactured ICs.

[Lambda13]

Well then...speaking from experience!

When I read the specs sheet, the TR11 read much taller than the TR8, hence my apprehension. I'm assuming the TR11 just hangs a little lower than the TR8 from the crash bar. Either way, I'm glad you guys thought outside the box and pioneered a cheaper, just as effective if not more, than the name brand manufactured ICs.

Treadstone is actually a brand name intercooler company. They specialize in it lol.

But yes, it hangs slightly higher than the belly pans and just under the crash bar. I used 2 L brackets (I cut some of the excess pieces off) and 2 T brackets to mount it to the crash bar (also cut the T bracket to fit). It is snugly on there and looks pretty mean.

[lettuce]

Except that using a Magnum condom has negative side effects. Like having to go fishing and then making them take the fast way down a flight of stairs. The TR11 fit perfectly under the crash bar and took minimum modifications or maneuvering to make it fit.

Under the crash bar or behind the crash bar? There's no way it fit under it, the TR8 is 7.8" tall and barely fit under mine, compared to 11" for the TR11. And with the 3.5" thick core of the TR8 compared to only 3" of the TR11 the TR8 is going to have more surface area exposed to moving air than the TR11 since the portion of it that's mounted behind the crash bar isn't really getting much, if any airflow at all.

Then you have to take into account the fact that it's a larger volume container that has to fill with pressurized air before it gets to your combustion chambers, decreasing your pedal responce.

[Lambda13]

Under the crash bar or behind the crash bar? There's no way it fit under it, the TR8 is 7.8" tall and barely fit under mine, compared to 11" for the TR11. And with the 3.5" thick core of the TR8 compared to only 3" of the TR11 the TR8 is going to have more surface area exposed to moving air than the TR11 since the portion of it that's mounted behind the crash bar isn't really getting much, if any airflow at all.

Then you have to take into account the fact that it's a larger volume container that has to fill with pressurized air before it gets to your combustion chambers, decreasing your pedal responce.

On second thought there is a small portion behind it. My mistake. I'll measure it. I have more surface area facing forward than behind the crash bar. Not to mention air will still flow in behind the crash bar, won't it?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Dub_prime]

On second thought there is a small portion behind it. My mistake. I'll measure it. I have more surface area facing forward than behind the crash bar. Not to mention air will still flow in behind the crash bar, won't it?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

If it's at a 45° angle or less it should, otherwise it won't allow air to pass through efficiently.

[lettuce]

On second thought there is a small portion behind it. My mistake. I'll measure it. I have more surface area facing forward than behind the crash bar. Not to mention air will still flow in behind the crash bar, won't it?

I would imagine there would be somewhere between 2 and 2.5 inches of IC behind your crash bar. And if it's mounted up directly behind it, those two inches will be getting zero airflow. If it's set back a bit it'll be getting some, but not very much at all.

The Treadstone intercoolers are also advertised oddly on their site in regards to their specifications. It almost seems misleading, albeit probably not intentionally. Below are the pages for the TR6, TR8 and TR11.

The red arrows are pointing to "pressure drop at max flow", while the green arrows are pointing to "pressure drop". The TR6 has both values listed, while the TR8 and TR11 only have one value listed, the TR8 having the "pressure drop at max flow" value listed and the TR11 having the standard "pressure drop" value listed. Here is a summary of the values:

TR6:
Less than 2psi pressure drop at max flow
less than 1psi pressure drop

TR8:
Less than 2psi pressure drop at max flow

TR11:
Less than 1.5 psi pressure drop

An email to Treadstone would be able to clear this up I'm sure, but based solely off these values (namely the TR6 values) it seems like 'pressure drop at max flow' is roughly double that of standard 'pressure drop'. So if I were to use a bit of inductive reasoning, I might conclude that the following missing values can be filled in for the other two intercoolers (my theoretical values in italics):

TR6:
Less than 2psi pressure drop at max flow
less than 1psi pressure drop

TR8:
Less than 2psi pressure drop at max flow
less than 1psi pressure drop

TR11:
Less than 3psi pressure drop at max flow
Less than 1.5 psi pressure drop

[boomtime]

Damn I was looking into the tubing/clamps and just realized the TR8 is 2.5" outlet and the TR8C is 3".

Edit: These might work, and I'm still saving $60 after the different hoses and clamps. Also it looks like the pressure drop is slightly better on this version, 1.5psi instead of 2.0psi for the TR8.
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/bendi...bow-p-910.html

Edit2: Is it worth it to spring for the eurocode HFIP to swap that out while I'm in there? Or just do the soundbox delete?

The Eurocode HFIP is 2.25" diameter whereas the Eurocode FMIC is 2.5" diameter.
They are not compatible with each other.
Also the Eurocode TruFit silicone intercooler hoses are 2.25" and are designed to work with the stock B8 FMIC and the HFIP.

To use the Eurocode FMIC you need a 2.5" piping kit.

I have for sale both the Eurocode FMIC and 2.5" hard pipe kit with all hardware and SS t-bolt clamps :) for B8/B8.5

The main point here is the HFIP is 2.25"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[asfastas63]

The Eurocode HFIP is 2.25" diameter whereas the Eurocode FMIC is 2.5" diameter.
They are not compatible with each other.
Also the Eurocode TruFit silicone intercooler hoses are 2.25" and are designed to work with the stock B8 FMIC and the HFIP.

To use the Eurocode FMIC you need a 2.5" piping kit.

I have for sale both the Eurocode FMIC and 2.5" hard pipe kit with all hardware and SS t-bolt clamps :) for B8/B8.5

The main point here is the HFIP is 2.25"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not talking about a Eurocode FMIC, I just purchased the tr8c which has 3" outlets. I'm planning on using stock hoses and a 3" to 2.25" 45* hose to interface, but was curious if the high flow pipe without the sound box would be a worthwhile addition while I had it all apart.

I'm not familiar with the 2.5" kit, any more info on it? I could step the 3" to 2.5" and get better flow all around I guess.

[boomtime]

Not talking about a Eurocode FMIC, I just purchased the tr8c which has 3" outlets. I'm planning on using stock hoses and a 3" to 2.25" 45* hose to interface, but was curious if the high flow pipe without the sound box would be a worthwhile addition while I had it all apart.

I'm not familiar with the 2.5" kit, any more info on it? I could step the 3" to 2.5" and get better flow all around I guess.

Your not going to get better flow going from 3" to 2.25" or even from 3" to 2.5", etc.
You will get the best flow with 2.25 -> 2.25 and 2.5 -> 2.5.
3" is going to hurt throttle response and is to big for your application.

I know you dont care about the Eurocode FMIC. I only used that as an example since you mentioned another Eurocode product, the HFIP.

[asfastas63]

Your not going to get better flow going from 3" to 2.25" or even from 3" to 2.5", etc.
You will get the best flow with 2.25 -> 2.25 and 2.5 -> 2.5.
3" is going to hurt throttle response and is to big for your application.

I know you dont care about the Eurocode FMIC. I only used that as an example since you mentioned another Eurocode product, the HFIP.

Gotcha. I just did some research and it's making a bit more sense now (though not too much info out there on this specific scenario of stepping up for the IC and back down on the way out). I don't think the actual outlet size will matter too much since I'll be immediately stepping back down to 2.25". Switching to 3" all around would definitely kill the spool time, but just having the extra few inches of larger pipe size on each side of the intercooler can probably just be wrapped into the intercooler volume. If intercooler volume were a huge factor than the guys with the TR11 probably wouldn't be as happy with their results.

[dscline]

If intercooler volume were a huge factor than the guys with the TR11 probably wouldn't be as happy with their results.

Intercooler volume (plus the volume of all the piping from the turbo down) does affect response. Perhaps the guys with the TR11 are just more concerned with top end performance than throttle response. Just depends on what you're after.

[lettuce]

Intercooler volume (plus the volume of all the piping from the turbo down) does affect response. Perhaps the guys with the TR11 are just more concerned with top end performance than throttle response. Just depends on what you're after.

Or they don't really have anything to compare it to. I don't think anyone here really has the luxury of going out and getting the TR6, TR8, and TR11 to compare. Plus while I certainly agree with you that it makes a difference and is why I went with the TR8, it's probably not a very big one so I doubt many people are very discerning and would notice or even care.

[asfastas63]

Intercooler volume (plus the volume of all the piping from the turbo down) does affect response. Perhaps the guys with the TR11 are just more concerned with top end performance than throttle response. Just depends on what you're after.

Ready for some back of the napkin math with wild assumptions? So I found this link with dyno testing between a few different IC setups. Check out Run 2 to Run 3 where the only change is going from 2.5" pipe to 3" piping all around. This could be way off but I assumed 4 feet of intercooler piping, which means increasing the tube diameter by .5" would account for ~104in^3 of added volume. This accounted for a loss of 7hp, 6ft/lbs of torque, and affected the RPM required to hit 20lbs of boost by 59. Lets normalize this to a loss of HP of 1.08% and a loss of torque of 1.18% since this evo is making crazy crazy hp.

Conveniently, the difference in core size between a TR8 and a TR11 is ~109in^3, so pretty darn close! Just for kicks using STGII APR numbers and the power loss percentages from the evo testing, this would equate to a loss of ~3hp and ~5ft/lbs of torque. Obviously this is based on wild assumptions from a completely different motor, and not taking into account any added cooling gains from the larger core, but I think it's enough for me to say it probably doesn't matter.

[poweredbyaudi7]

Ready for some back of the napkin math with wild assumptions? So I found this link with dyno testing between a few different IC setups. Check out Run 2 to Run 3 where the only change is going from 2.5" pipe to 3" piping all around. This could be way off but I assumed 4 feet of intercooler piping, which means increasing the tube diameter by .5" would account for ~104in^3 of added volume. This accounted for a loss of 7hp, 6ft/lbs of torque, and affected the RPM required to hit 20lbs of boost by 59. Lets normalize this to a loss of HP of 1.08% and a loss of torque of 1.18% since this evo is making crazy crazy hp.

Conveniently, the difference in core size between a TR8 and a TR11 is ~109in^3, so pretty darn close! Just for kicks using STGII APR numbers and the power loss percentages from the evo testing, this would equate to a loss of ~3hp and ~5ft/lbs of torque. Obviously this is based on wild assumptions from a completely different motor, and not taking into account any added cooling gains from the larger core, but I think it's enough for me to say it probably doesn't matter.

The significant difference between this argument is where the volume is being added, as you said about not taking into account the benifit of thicker core. The act of adding the volume in the piping would put more "cooled" air in the pipe that could gain in temp while traveling into the manifold. Where as if the volume is added to the core, it is essentially adding more cold air to the equation. I am by far not an engineer, so does this make sense?

[dscline]

Check out Run 2 to Run 3 where the only change is going from 2.5" pipe to 3" piping all around. ... This accounted for a loss of 7hp, 6ft/lbs of torque, and affected the RPM required to hit 20lbs of boost by 59. Lets normalize this to a loss of HP of 1.08% and a loss of torque of 1.18%.

I didn't read that whole thread, so I don't know the setup. If the car had, for example, a 2.5" throttle body, it's possible that an aerodynamically poor transition at that point could hurt performance. It's also possible that a change in intake pipe volume could adversely affect intake harmonics. But beyond small details like that, I can't think of any logical reason for larger piping to hurt top end performance. Response, yes, top-end HP, no. So it's also possible that the 1% loss observed is simply within the tolerance of the variances typical in dyno runs.

Conveniently, the difference in core size between a TR8 and a TR11 is ~109in^3, so pretty darn close! Just for kicks using STGII APR numbers and the power loss percentages from the evo testing, this would equate to a loss of ~3hp and ~5ft/lbs of torque. Obviously this is based on wild assumptions from a completely different motor, and not taking into account any added cooling gains from the larger core, but I think it's enough for me to say it probably doesn't matter.

Yeah, you can't really compare the two since generally the gains provided by the intercooler FAR outweigh the detriments. I'll stand by the notion that generally speaking, increasing intercooler capacity will, to an extent, increase top end performance, while increasing intercooler volume will hurt response.

But I think people also often gloss over the finer details (often because they aren't available). You can have two 8L intercoolers that perform very differently. Differences in internal fin structure can cause one to have better heat transfer ability at the expense of more pressure drop. Even with the same bar design, you can have twice as many bars that are half as long, which will give much lower pressure drop but also less heat transfer, since the velocity in each tube is half as much. But people tend to just look at these and think bigger is better.

[blbroo]

If there was a TR8/TR11 complete kit available, would anyone be interested? I bet it would come out under $400 with everything. Probably a good deal less if there was a bulk buy.

[Lambda13]

If there was a TR8/TR11 complete kit available, would anyone be interested? I bet it would come out under $400 with everything. Probably a good deal less if there was a bulk buy.

It could be any of their intercoolers for the most part. We can piece it all together.

[zokissima]

I've been really following this tread avidly, trying to make an informed decision without dropping any (more) money. I'm allready running the TDI intercooler, which is a 8L core. The TR8 and TR11 discussed are 9.8L and 11.6L cores respectively. I am currently at stock power levels, with the TDI intercooler. However, I'll be installing a k04, with associated power increase. I'm trying to determine which intercooler upgrade is best of the TR8 or 11, or even go for a du88 intercooler at 13.8L volume. Price-wise the du88 is very comparable to Treadstone. What do you guys think?

[zcspec]

I've been really following this tread avidly, trying to make an informed decision without dropping any (more) money. I'm allready running the TDI intercooler, which is a 8L core. The TR8 and TR11 discussed are 9.8L and 11.6L cores respectively. I am currently at stock power levels, with the TDI intercooler. However, I'll be installing a k04, with associated power increase. I'm trying to determine which intercooler upgrade is best of the TR8 or 11, or even go for a du88 intercooler at 13.8L volume. Price-wise the du88 is very comparable to Treadstone. What do you guys think?

I am installing the TR8 this weekend. For my application (this summer Stage 2 on e85) is plenty enough of cooling. Most of the TR guys here believe that the IC works just as good as the higher end ICs costing 2 to 4 times as much. Only you can determine if your wallet believes that the negligible difference is worth the extra cost. For me, for the cost of a "Audi made, name brand" IC, I can get a TR8 or TR11, and a HFC and do the entire install myself.

[S4_SH1640]

let me ask you guys a question...

Did all of you guys do the INTERCOOLER AIR CHARGE PIPE DAMPENER delete? What is the point of this thing? If you go with a bigger intercooler, do we need to have it? Whats the benefit? Thanks

[blbroo]

let me ask you guys a question...

Did all of you guys do the INTERCOOLER AIR CHARGE PIPE DAMPENER delete? What is the point of this thing? If you go with a bigger intercooler, do we need to have it? Whats the benefit? Thanks

I think it is just to cut down on cool noises.

Mine is on a shelf in my garage


.

[Mr.Audi]

I'd like to run the tdi a7 fmic


Sent from ....

[S4_SH1640]

I think it is just to cut down on cool noises.

Mine is on a shelf in my garage


.

That's what i thought. But then i saw a sensor connected to the Plastic pipe. How did you bypass that?

[lettuce]

That's what i thought. But then i saw a sensor connected to the Plastic pipe. How did you bypass that?

You mean the big plastic pipe that's over 2 inches in diameter and connects your throttle body to your intercooler hose? Yeah, I wouldn't try to delete that if I were you.

The sound box you're referring to is a little round plastic box, maybe 7"x7", a couple inches thick and is attached to your charge pipe with a short little rubber hose that's maybe an inch and a half in diameter. That's what you'll want to delete. There are no sensors or anything attached to that, so all you have to do is plug the hole it leaves in your charge pipe.

[Dub_prime]

One of the best mods so far on my car was the EC hose kit and turbo muffler delete, of course I'm not chipped yet either

[Mr.Audi]

Yea I did the hi flow fmic pipe , and turbo muffler delete.
(With intake) I love the sound an responsiveness
I wanna look more into the a7 fmic as an Oem + solution would be awesome
Also, is the silicone hose kit worth it?


Sent from ....

[S4_SH1640]

You mean the big plastic pipe that's over 2 inches in diameter and connects your throttle body to your intercooler hose? Yeah, I wouldn't try to delete that if I were you.

The sound box you're referring to is a little round plastic box, maybe 7"x7", a couple inches thick and is attached to your charge pipe with a short little rubber hose that's maybe an inch and a half in diameter. That's what you'll want to delete. There are no sensors or anything attached to that, so all you have to do is plug the hole it leaves in your charge pipe.

Now i understand it better. Gotcha, thanks.

[zcspec]

Add another member to the TR family. With the help of a buddy of mine, we got the TR8 in and on e85, the AR is definitely a monster now.

[Dub_prime]

Yea I did the hi flow fmic pipe , and turbo muffler delete.
(With intake) I love the sound an responsiveness
I wanna look more into the a7 fmic as an Oem + solution would be awesome
Also, is the silicone hose kit worth it?


Sent from ....

The hoses themselves probably not, but I got them as a package deal. I will be going the TR8 route as soon as I can get the money together.

[zokissima]

Yea I did the hi flow fmic pipe , and turbo muffler delete.
(With intake) I love the sound an responsiveness
I wanna look more into the a7 fmic as an Oem + solution would be awesome
Also, is the silicone hose kit worth it?


Sent from ....

If you're willing to wait a month or two, I'll sell you my A7 TDI FMIC for dirt cheap, it's only been on the car for less than 10k miles, and I'll be swapping it out soon for a TR18C.

[S4_SH1640]

If you're willing to wait a month or two, I'll sell you my A7 TDI FMIC for dirt cheap, it's only been on the car for less than 10k miles, and I'll be swapping it out soon for a TR18C.

Lmk when you sell it, i may want it. lol

[Mr.Audi]

If you're willing to wait a month or two, I'll sell you my A7 TDI FMIC for dirt cheap, it's only been on the car for less than 10k miles, and I'll be swapping it out soon for a TR18C.

Message me when it's off. PayPal ready


Sent from ....