YET another 5-speed swap - in progress

[Papa_Dios]

I <3 brake cleaner. Intake looks good.

[walky_talky20]

I <3 brake cleaner. Intake looks good.

With all that brake cleaner and paint, I think I'll be stupid by the time I'm done!

Painted my Valve Cover tonight. I'm pretty happy with it. I guess I'll wait until it dries. But it's definitely better than the corroded oily mess it was before:




And I got some more parts in.

Crank bolt:


PCV valve housing:


Coolant return line O-ring (this is probably more famous as the B6 1.8T "J-plug" location). AWM has a pipe there, though:


4 Driveshaft gaskets. 2 for the DS, and 1 for each axle. Audi recently dropped the price. Now they're like 90 cents a piece. Down from $10!


Hopefully some more real progress tomorrow.

[revolution337]

Damn! 90 cents a piece? I need to pick some of them up! You get them at a vendor here or just at the dealership?

[BlkBullitt]

Good work so far! Keep the updates and the photos coming... I know I prefer threads with detailed information.

[walky_talky20]

Damn! 90 cents a piece? I need to pick some of them up! You get them at a vendor here or just at the dealership?

Yeah, they are on clearance or something. I got them from the dealer. They actually had 3 in stock! I was quite surprised as it seems like a sort of unnecessary part to replace.

Do note that these are supposed to be for the drive shaft on facelift cars. There is a different part number for the earlier drive shafts, as well as the front inner axles for the manual cars. I think the shape is identical, but the other ones are more of a cork texture rather than the rubbery texture. I don't think it makes any difference, so I just got these for all 4.

Good work so far! Keep the updates and the photos coming... I know I prefer threads with detailed information.

Thanks. I know I hate reading threads where there's no photos or details given. I feel that if I go through the effort to figure something out, I want that effort to be beneficial for someone else. That way you aren't reinventing the wheel all the time.

[revolution337]

any updates on this?

[walky_talky20]

Got some more work done this weekend. I can't wait to get this thing back on the road. Driving a minivan is killing me slowly.

New PCV pipe and 3-way housing installed, cleaned the PCV valve:


Replaced the coolant return line o-ring (B6's "J-plug" location). Sooo easy to do while this is apart:


Dropped the oil pan and cleaned that:


I'm fairly certain my engine had undergone a dealer sludge repair at some point. 4 oil pan bolts were missing (more sloppy dealer work) and the pickup screen, while not perfect, was not nearly as bad as you'd expect at 170k miles. The OEM white silicone sealant was used which leads to believe it was a dealer repair:



Me, cleaning the pickup screen. Flashlight is helpful to spot the particles. There were several large pieces of dipstick tube lodged in the screen:


All clean!:


I was wondering if this oil pump is OEM or not. It has red paint marks on the bolts, which seems odd. And it is branded "SCHADEK". Anybody know?:



Next up, timing belt...

[walky_talky20]

I pieced together my own full timing belt kit. Total cost just under $100:



It includes the following:

- Conti-Tech Timing belt
- HEPU German water pump w/steel impeller
- Manual timing belt tensioner, 051-109-243 (91-92 VW Jetta GLI 16V 2.0 DOHC, aka "9A" engine)
- Tensioner stud kit (ended up using a bolt instead)
- 5-6mm washer, ID: 10mm

First, installing the water pump. To prevent leaks, you want to make sure and clean the surface for the o-ring. I like to clean off the seating surface of the block too:


Sometimes the o-rings like to give out a little early, so I put a tiny bit of RTV sealant (Permatex ULTRA grey) around the hole. I also lubed the o-ring with a bit of vaseline to help it go in smoothly:


Of course, I marked the old belt to each sprocket before removal. I like to do 1 mark on the cam and 2 on the crank so you don't have to guess upon install. I transferred said marks to the new belt. Rubber band is just to hold these guys still for the photo:


Now the fun part. When using the manual tensioner roller, some people like to omit the hydraulic tensioner assembly altogether. The small idler roller on the tensioner isn't really needed for the manual setup, but deleting the hydro piece leaves a gaping hole in your timing belt cover situation. So I elected to leave it in place. The clearance between the hydro tensioner and the roller is pretty close, so I decided to remove the guts:


I wasn't sure what to expect inside this thing (fairy dust? Unicorns?). Turns out it is a couple springs some interesting valving pieces and (IMO) some very good-smelling oil:


I also shaved down the edge just a bit for a little extra clearance. Here I compare it to an untouched one:



Here is the whole she-bang installed. I didn't like how the stud kit only allowed the nut to catch a few threads on the end. So I found a bolt of the perfect length to use instead.


And the clearance I was speaking of earlier. Plenty:



I had been having a slight boost problem ever since we rebuilt my [chinese] turbo for the second time. The boost seemed to come on a bit late. When logging I could see it didn't reach the request until almost 3,000 rpm. So I decided I'd take a look at the wastegate "preload" adjustment. I wasn't sure exactly how to set the pre-load correctly, though. Luckily we happened to have a recently grenaded K03S at the shop.


It hadn't ever been messed with, just uninstalled recently. So the factory adjustment is intact. I paint marked the shaft and loosened the nut. Turns out it is about 1 full turn of the nut to pre-load the shaft.:


Yep, really grenaded. The turbine shaft is actually broken:


Anywho, took my turbo off and checked the adjustment:


ZERO PRE-LOAD. It was holding the wastegate closed tight, but that was it, nothing extra. So I cranked it up and extra 1.5 turns to give a little bit of "edge". That should fix the boost. Kind of excited about that.



Also, I dug out my pedal cluster (someone gave me this and really pushed me over the edge for this swap!):


And finally, Valve Cover and Intake installed:


Things I didn't photograph:
- Cam Chain Tensioner (Adjuster) gasket and half-moon seal
- Both cam seals
- Front main seal
- Rear main seal, came with a nifty tool that makes it a piece of cake.
- Cooling Flange (*so* easy with the engine on the stand).

[revolution337]

coming along very nicely!


^I'm liking this

[walky_talky20]

No comments on the manual tensioner conversion? I thought some of you guys would be interested in that part. It cuts the price of a full 06A t-belt kit (belt, rollers, pump, tensioner) by about $100. And it eliminates the possibility of a hydraulic failure.

Should have the tranny bolted up tomorrow and the motor ready to go in. Shifter and pedals on thursday, and the weekend to throw it together.

[Militant-Grunt]

It is a 01A, just out of the older model Audi.

Didnt coupe quattro's use 016's?

[Papa_Dios]

Hey walky I recall us talking about the manual tensioner in an older thread. How exactly did you get it to work? Also I noticed you didn't include any accessory belts any particular reason?

[Amorphic]

loving this thread. awesome work so far. i wish i had half the skill you have.

[walky_talky20]

The manual tensioner conversion has been done for years by the VW 1.8T guys. I guess because it uses a familiar old-school jetta part to make it work. The only special piece needed is a 5-6mm washer to put behind the roller, so the belt offset is correct. I happen to find one laying around the shop that works perfectly (it's in the photos).

And my accessory belts are fine. No need to waste money on those. I can always replace them later when the time comes.

Audi's "Coupe Quattro" through 1988 (B2 chassis) did indeed use the 016 trans (open or manually locked center diff). The B3 Coupe Quattro from 1990 used the 01A. But they only had 4.11's until 1991. From 1992 (B4 chassis), the manual cars switched to a 3.89 final drive. So for this tiptronic swap I'm doing, I could have used any B3 (Audi 80/90) 01A transmission 1988-1991, but I wanted the slightly tighter gears from the B3 Coupe Quattro, which was only sold in 1990 and 1991. Little bit hard to come by actually.

[Papa_Dios]

Hey makes sense to me. If it aint broke don't fix it. Taking a good look at it (on my PC instead of my phone I see what you're talking about). Great job as usual!!

[walky_talky20]

I'm actually fixing a lot of stuff that ain't broke (cooling flange, front seals, rear main, etc). That kind of stuff you don't get a chance to do very often. But the stuff I can easily get to later I'm not so worried about.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Keep up the good work!

Jason

[EErie B6]

Progress Report?

[walky_talky20]

Trans is now bolted to the engine, and the trans mount brackets are installed. I had to do some fabrication to get the B5-era brackets to bolt to the B3 transmission. Will go over the details on that in the future (after I make sure everything actually lines up).

Finally got my hydraulic clutch line. HUGE thanks to AZ member BlkBullitt on that. My previous supplier for the line didn't work out. I contacted BlkBullitt on Tuesday to see if he had the part and I got it today. Can't thank him enough. My swap is remaining on schedule due to his very timely service. Also a big thanks to EErie B6, who has provided his old B6 flywheel and pressure plate for the project. Very much appreciated.

Car is now in the shop for the weekend and finishing work will begin on Saturday morning. I have a few last things to button up on the engine. Then the pedals and shifter go in. With any luck we'll have the engine and trans in tomorrow as well. I suppose it depends how much of a pain the pedals are - I'm not really sure yet. Then Sunday to reassemble the rest of the car and test drive. As long as we don't hit any snags, I should be chirping some gears by Sunday night, I mean... beginning the break-in period for the clutch. Yeah.

I did take some pics of the engine and trans bolted up, but I left the camera at the shop again. Not much to look at anyway, but I should have more interesting pics to share tomorrow evening. Please wish me luck!

[biketsai]

Git err done

[walky_talky20]

Pedals are in (that was a pain).
Hydraulic clutch line is in.
Shifter is in.
Bay is cleaned up.

I did take some photos today, but forgot the stupid camera again. Promise to post some photos tomorrow.

Will be tossing in the engine/trans tomorrow morning.

[revolution337]

This may have been stated earlier in the thread, but did you use any sort of aftermarket line for the hydraulic clutch line (i.e. steel braided)? Or did you just go with an OE

[walky_talky20]

That is a good question. I am using the OEM slave from the 1991 Coupe Quattro trans. So it is the "metal" variety. As such, it uses a conventional double flare with a metric thread fitting. My pedal cluster came from a 2000 S4, and came with a master cylinder. It is the "plastic" variety. As such, it has the "push-lock" aka "quick connect" type fitting. In order to interface this stuff, there are a few solutions:

Method 1 - Easy: Get a hydraulic clutch line *and Clutch Master* from a 1996 or *early* 1997 Audi A4. These still used the old metal master and slave cylinders with the aforementioned threaded fittings. Using this master and line will hook directly to the metal slave.

Method 2 - Easy and Expensive: Get a braided steel clutch line from USP motorsports which will go from my existing plastic master cylinder to my existing metal slave cylinder.

Method 3 - Not as easy, but cheap: Get a clutch line from a later A4 (push lock fittings on both ends), and modify it to connect to the metal slave.

My first plan was to go with method 3, but my junkyard seemed woefully incapable of pulling, or even understanding what a hydraulic clutch line was. Despite numerous detailed discussions and promises. Major Fail.

My second plan was to go with method 1, but unfortunately the parts ended up being damaged and unusable.

After briefly considering method 2 ($$), my final solution was method 3. BlkBullitt supplied me a Hydraulic Clutch Line from a 1998 A4 1.8TQM. I cut the push-lock fitting off the slave-end. Using a compression connector, I grafted in a new section of line which was double flared on the end, and used the threaded fitting from the metal slave. Thanks to whomever pulled the tranny and simply cut the line and left me that fitting! I think it's hard to find. I did save the seemingly un-buy-able push lock fitting that I cut off, so I can convert it back if I ever need to. I'll have some pictures of this setup tomorrow.

[EErie B6]

Also a big thanks to EErie B6

n/p dude. I know how much you want this.

[Glenns Audi]

Good luck with the build sir (not that you need it).

[walky_talky20]

Car is SWAPPED!

Did a bunch of work today. I had to have it at least drivable by today because the 90 day warranty on my transmission runs out on Monday. All the gears work and it shifts smoothly. 2nd gear synchro is a bit weak, but nothing horrible and mostly on the 3-2 downshift. Double-clutch and a rev-match and it slides right in, though. It's still got the original gear oil in it, so I'll try something different to see if I can help that out some.

Quick list of crap I did today:
- Swapped the driveshaft
- Finished SAI delete and PCV simplification
- Installed Engine and Transmission
- Connected shift linkage (problems!)
- Connected drive-shaft, exhaust, hydraulic clutch line
- Installed axles
- Connected all wiring, and installed core support
- Connected all coolant and inter-cooler hoses
- Topped up fluids and bled brakes and clutch

Took a test drive! Had no bumper or wipers, and only 1 headlight, lol. I found there are a few "gotchas" when using the B3 transmission. Firstly, the stationary rod for the shifter is a different length. They changed location of the bolt hole on the transmission case. My Father helped me to lengthen that rod perfectly. Another thing is the passenger side trans mount bracket. When using the B5 bracket, only 2 of the holes line up. For the 3rd hole, I had to drill through the tranny case. Not a huge issue, as luckily it was just into one of the cooling ribs on the bottom. I'll have more details on these solutions in a day or 2. My brother and I were rushing to get it done enough to test drive. I didn't even have time to remove the TCU or recode the ECU. I did a quick bypass of the Park/Neutral Position relay to get it to start.

I've got a bit of finishing work to do, but it felt great to drive it with a proper transmission! Thanks for all your support and I *promise* more photos and details tomorrow.

[biketsai]

I'm very glad to see you are finally done and that it all worked out!! So do you wish you had done it sooner? ;)

Chris

[Poopie]

where in PA are you located?

[walky_talky20]

@Biketsai: I enjoyed the Tiptronic for what it was. It is pretty good as far as automatics go, for sure. I did learn a lot about them by having one myself. I feel that this was the right time to switch. Earlier I wouldn't have had the time or the funds to do it. I'm not even sure if I had thought about it much (or at all) before I saw your swap DIY. So a big thanks for that.

@Poopie: Near Erie, PA.

[Papa_Dios]

Glad to hear you're all finished up!!

[EErie B6]

Ok, now for the million dollar question...
Since you and your brother both have B5 5-spds with different final drive ratios... what are the pros/cons of each?
(i realize you might not be able to answer this quite yet, but i am very curious)

one last thing...
did adjusting the WG help out?

[drift077]

would this project be possible using a 6speed manual trans from a 04 s4?

[Papa_Dios]

^^YUP^^

Walky I am also curious on how the different gearing affects acceleration.

[Aragorn]

If you've changed the final drive, where did you get the matching rear diff from?

[walky_talky20]

I only drove this thing for 1 mile so far. The install was kind of rushed so I didn't want to push it too hard until I had some time to look over everything. I just needed to get it through all the gears to make sure the tranny was good. So I don't know about the boost. Didn't even have the boost gauge hooked up actually!

I can't comment on the gearing difference yet, but I am very curious as well. From the test drive, it seemed pretty normal - nothing crazy. It felt "right". And I haven't driven my brothers car very much recently to compare. Full comparison will be done soon, surely. Back to back test drives, the whole bit.

I did contemplate a 6-speed swap instead, but the swap cost would have been at least 3 times as much. My goal was the "budget" swap, and it has worked out pretty well.

[the_pirate]

Awesome work man!

[Dan[FN]6262]

I fucking love the manual tensioner setup. you, are my hero. I will be ordering all that stuff very soon, with a new timing belt, because I just don't like the feel of my hydraulic tensioner. I think I might have compressed it too many times to reuse it haha

[BlkBullitt]

Car is SWAPPED!

Did a bunch of work today. I had to have it at least drivable by today because the 90 day warranty on my transmission runs out on Monday. All the gears work and it shifts smoothly. 2nd gear synchro is a bit weak, but nothing horrible and mostly on the 3-2 downshift. Double-clutch and a rev-match and it slides right in, though. It's still got the original gear oil in it, so I'll try something different to see if I can help that out some.

Quick list of crap I did today:
- Swapped the driveshaft
- Finished SAI delete and PCV simplification
- Installed Engine and Transmission
- Connected shift linkage (problems!)
- Connected drive-shaft, exhaust, hydraulic clutch line
- Installed axles
- Connected all wiring, and installed core support
- Connected all coolant and inter-cooler hoses
- Topped up fluids and bled brakes and clutch

Took a test drive! Had no bumper or wipers, and only 1 headlight, lol. I found there are a few "gotchas" when using the B3 transmission. Firstly, the stationary rod for the shifter is a different length. They changed location of the bolt hole on the transmission case. My Father helped me to lengthen that rod perfectly. Another thing is the passenger side trans mount bracket. When using the B5 bracket, only 2 of the holes line up. For the 3rd hole, I had to drill through the tranny case. Not a huge issue, as luckily it was just into one of the cooling ribs on the bottom. I'll have more details on these solutions in a day or 2. My brother and I were rushing to get it done enough to test drive. I didn't even have time to remove the TCU or recode the ECU. I did a quick bypass of the Park/Neutral Position relay to get it to start.

I've got a bit of finishing work to do, but it felt great to drive it with a proper transmission! Thanks for all your support and I *promise* more photos and details tomorrow.

Nice! Glad I was able to help with the line. Now lets see some photos of everything installed.

[discontained]

Excellent, I myself am collecting parts on this swap as well. Since we have the pretty much same engine/trans (well had) will be referring back to this when the time comes to tackle this!

Good job walky!

[AudiA4_20T]

should have just gotten a B5 trans, they are pretty damn cheap nowadays (~$100) and you would have better gearing/mount fitment/etc