B6/B7 S4 Timing Chain FAQ / Information / Discussion Thread

[THiBL]

when you're tightening the bolt , are you using a cam lock like this one ?

Yes, exactly the same.

i don't understand why, but the camshaft rotated a little bit then i took of the camshaft lock. http://cdn3.volusion.com/4mpcs.dyg25...jpg?1471586267

And it only arrived on the left bank

[neilpaku]

Hi Jake, my reading of the service manual is that those tools are for aligning the Hall sensor rotor, not for locking the cam. The other end of the cam has a hex for a wrench, used to hold the cam position while the bolt is tightened. Hopefully I'm right on that as that's what I'm up to this weekend : )

[neilpaku]

You're good and no offence taken - I was just pointing out that getting it done in a day is fast, relative to what I've read and what I've personally done (only the one time), so you're definitely winning (which is all good! We all like to take less time : )

[THiBL]

Hi Jake, my reading of the service manual is that those tools are for aligning the Hall sensor rotor, not for locking the cam. The other end of the cam has a hex for a wrench, used to hold the cam position while the bolt is tightened. Hopefully I'm right on that as that's what I'm up to this weekend : )

Your right !

But for the final tightening (100N.M + 1/4 round) you have to removed the tool that make the alignement of the camshaft right

It's at this point of the manual service then i tightened that the camshaft alignement goes bad ...

[jakeoboy67]

Hi Jake, my reading of the service manual is that those tools are for aligning the Hall sensor rotor, not for locking the cam. The other end of the cam has a hex for a wrench, used to hold the cam position while the bolt is tightened. Hopefully I'm right on that as that's what I'm up to this weekend : )

the tools are used to position the hall sensor trigger wheel before the initial tightening (40Nm) and then they are used to hold the camshaft in place during the final "lock" (100Nm + 1/4)

the front cam locks(the ones that fit in the slots) should not be used to counter-hold the camshafts when tightening the bolts, as they will snap/bend.

[THiBL]

the tools are used to position the hall sensor trigger wheel before the initial tightening (40Nm) and then they are used to hold the camshaft in place during the final "lock" (100Nm + 1/4)

the front cam locks(the ones that fit in the slots) should not be used to counter-hold the camshafts when tightening the bolts, as they will snap/bend.

I tried an other time and the cam shaft turn when i removed the tool T40047

[jakeoboy67]

I tried an other time and the cam shaft turn when i removed the tool T40047

when you're setting the timing , is the chain loose or tight ? the chain must be tightened by inserting the plastic wedge(3409 tools) behind the tensioner.

I'd say it's normal that the camshaft "wants" to turn a bit after you remove the lock. if it's pushing on valve springs at that position, the springs will try to close the valves (forcing the camshaft to turn).

make sure you don't re-use the cam bolt , it stretches permanently when torqued to spec and will break.

do your cam locks still fit in the slots ?

[2004B6S4]

Did you set the cam adjuster to the end of its adjustment range where the pin is locked into its groove?

[THiBL]

The chain is tight, i have the 3409 tools

I changed the bolt

Tomorrow i will check if the cam locks good (maybe something in ?)

Yes the adjuster are to the end

Tht strange, maybe i have loose something ...

Thx for help guys

[BugAudi1]

Went back to my S4 today, still runs just fine, though I refuse to start it without pulling the fuel pump fuse first. I had 2 warm start rattles in a row before I stopped driving it. I've been doing research the past couple months now and decided to check 2 things: oil check valves, and measuring block 093 in VCDS.

Here's how my oil check valve inspection went:

I don't even know what to think about this, but both valves were closed which leads me to believe they either work or are siezed shut (which I doubt because the car runs just fine).

I'm assuming what I found was a film of oil. This stuff is pretty solidified and brittle. The oil in the pan is still fine though and under the valve covers didn't look strange at all.

As far as my camshafts go, I'm at -4 at bank one and -3 at bank two. Which to my understanding isn't bad, but isn't really good either. Bank two was showing -4 at first but the value changed after running for a good while.

Where to go from here? I can do the chains, but I really don't know if this car is worth it.

Edit: Does oil even do that? Or is that some kind of paint off the gasket? I noticed while looking for a new one that they are black in color, mine was shiny under all that crap.

[badger.]

That is the paint/coating flaking off, not crusty oil. Pretty typical finding for a lot of people.

[BugAudi1]

That is the paint/coating flaking off, not crusty oil. Pretty typical finding for a lot of people.

Why is everything internal on these cars painted!?!?

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[gfitz1988]

I've got a B6 S4. Bought it March 15' with 122k miles on it. Now it's Sept. 16' and i've only put 2k miles on it. So far i've replaced the Dual Mass Flywheel, Clutch, and Transmission. When I bought the car from the dealership they told me it needed a fuel injector and a window regulator. It did need the window regulator but didn't need a fuel injector. After i replaced all of that now i'm pretty sure it jumped time or one of my guides broke because now it won't go over 2k rpms in any gear. I really like this car and I had a B6 A4 before this one and I loved that car. I put 50k miles on that car without any issues other than regular maintenance. I love my audi and i dont want to get rid of it but i need to know whats wrong with it and i'm on a tight budget with already replacing everything so far. so my question is should i buy a timing chain kit or buy a timing chain kit and a used engine. Someone told me that when the car jumped time or whatever that it bent the valves also. i don't know how to do a compression test and have no one to help me do it. Any info would help

[gcoy]

When mine jumped time it ran similar to what you described. Do you have any codes? Check engine light?
I had codes on one bank as a tensioner broke on that side. If you have bent valves your car would probable not be running at all,

[THiBL]

The chain is tight, i have the 3409 tools

I changed the bolt

Tomorrow i will check if the cam locks good (maybe something in ?)

Yes the adjuster are to the end

Tht strange, maybe i have loose something ...

Thx for help guys

Don't find anything ...

And i can't complete the reassembly without this step.

nobody have an issue ?

[neilpaku]

I tried an other time and the cam shaft turn when i removed the tool T40047

Thibl, look in post #66 on page 2 of the Alusil thread http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...reconditioning and see that I used a 24mm wrench on the other end of the camshaft to hold it while I torqued it to 100Nm plus 90 degrees. I also kept the T40047 tool fitted, per the instructions (not that I read it that way at the time : )
100Nm plus 90 degrees is pretty tight - pushing hard on a 3ft breaker bar.

If it still turned, then remove the mechanical cam adjuster assembly (the round unit with the sprocket attached that drives the intake manifold, disassemble it, and check that your locking pin and its matching recess are in good order. Mine was completely smashed up inside so I had to replace the whole assembly. That pin has to be locked into the recess in order to set the timing.

[gfitz1988]

Hello All. I've got a B6 S4. Bought it March 15' with 122k miles on it. Now it's Sept. 16' and i've only put 2k miles on it. So far i've replaced the Dual Mass Flywheel, Clutch, and Transmission. When I bought the car from the dealership they told me it needed a fuel injector and a window regulator. It did need the window regulator but didn't need a fuel injector. After i replaced all of that now i'm pretty sure it jumped time or one of my guides broke because now it won't go over 2k rpms in any gear. I really like this car and I had a B6 A4 before this one and I loved that car. I put 50k miles on that car without any issues other than regular maintenance. I love my audi and i dont want to get rid of it but i need to know whats wrong with it and i'm on a tight budget with already replacing everything so far. so my question is should i buy a timing chain kit or buy a timing chain kit and a used engine. Someone told me that when the car jumped time or whatever that it bent the valves also. i don't know how to do a compression test and have no one to help me do it. Any info would help

[gfitz1988]

Awesome! Yea I have codes and a check engine light. When it first happened the check engine light came on and was flashing. That's what I was thinking too about if the valves were bent. I just don't want to spend $1000 on a timing chain kit only to find out it's the engine also and then have to shell out 5k for an engine. Thank you so much for your help!

[THiBL]

Thibl, look in post #66 on page 2 of the Alusil thread http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...reconditioning and see that I used a 24mm wrench on the other end of the camshaft to hold it while I torqued it to 100Nm plus 90 degrees. I also kept the T40047 tool fitted, per the instructions (not that I read it that way at the time : )
100Nm plus 90 degrees is pretty tight - pushing hard on a 3ft breaker bar.

If it still turned, then remove the mechanical cam adjuster assembly (the round unit with the sprocket attached that drives the intake manifold, disassemble it, and check that your locking pin and its matching recess are in good order. Mine was completely smashed up inside so I had to replace the whole assembly. That pin has to be locked into the recess in order to set the timing.

Hello all,

Thx neilpaku, it was good, the cam turn a little (1mm) but it looks good.

So i don't understand why the service manual say to removed the camshaft locking

Hope all was good i can reassebly the motor

thanks a lot

[jakeoboy67]

Hello all,

Thx neilpaku, it was good, the cam turn a little (1mm) but it looks good.

So i don't understand why the service manual say to removed the camshaft locking

Hope all was good i can reassebly the motor

thanks a lot

check your timing one last time before closing the covers

[THiBL]

It's made, it's good. Thanks a lot guys.

[Ranulf Lucas]

And the prices are in......

34 hours @ £55 per hour = £1,870 (remove and refit engine, fit timing kit etc).

Audi timing kit = £1,954

Various other bits and pieces (including clutch) brings the total up to £6,044 after sales tax

[Blvck S4]

The purpose of this thread is to create one central location for information, questions, answers, and discussion concerning the timing chain system used in the Audi B6/B7 S4.


ENGINE PULL DIY

Hey I tried to click on the link for the Engine Pull DIY, but it leads to a broken link. I was wondering if anyone had a new link to it. I would greatly appreciate it, really want to get my S4 up and running.

Thank You,
Marlon

[MG15]

Need information on test results of electric cam adjusters
i tested both of a set on a car im working on and on neither does the piston actually move? it just like vibrates? one is alot weaker than the other and the strong one was on the side with misfires...... what does a test of one show? other than the hum and vibrate....... dont wanna spend an extra 1400 if i dont have too

- - - Updated - - -

the top image where the cam adjuster goes one side spins freely and one side will barely move..... is it suppose to move freely or not? the side with the misfires was the side that spins freely

Anyone have any information on how to check the electrical cam adjuster? I am also interested in learning more on this.

[Adubinetsky]

Engine pull on www.cuccarogarage.com does not open. Anyone have the diy? Or known why the link doesn't work anymore??


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[neilpaku]

I guess the site is down or that content is no longer available. This one is pretty good but in any case, you should study the repair manual (Elsawin or Bentley) for all the facts. The DIYs are good for showing what the manual instructs "in plain English".
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...r-install-pics

[Adubinetsky]

Google Audi revolution b6/b7 s4 engine pull guide.

[REVOofRustler]

Looks like the subscription for the "Cuccarogarage" domain didn't get renewed :/. Bummer, there was a lot of good info on there.

As far as the service manual goes, there's a lot of talking about in the thread I have going right now (Shameless Plug). It still hasn't been confirmed 100%, but it seems like if you buy the license for the service manual, Bentley/eBahn customer support should be able to get you access to the service manuals on their online beta instead of having to use a computer with XP or running a virtual machine.

[sonosam]

I have access to the online beta version after buying the DVD. I still use the VM though just because I don't need internet.

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[2004B6S4]

wow that sucks that Joey's site is down. Surprising too since he was still active on it responding to comments fairly recently. Luckily I had his engine pull guide saved to pdf format, here's a link to download it if anyone needs it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6G...ew?usp=sharing I have some of his other diys too so if anyone wants those, pm me

[kevinye77137]

wow that sucks that Joey's site is down. Surprising too since he was still active on it responding to comments fairly recently. Luckily I had his engine pull guide saved to pdf format, here's a link to download it if anyone needs it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6G...ew?usp=sharing I have some of his other diys too so if anyone wants those, pm me

dude... you are the best! I needed this! you deserve reddit gold

[REVOofRustler]

You deserve reddit gold

Hahahhaa yes

[badger.]

wow that sucks that Joey's site is down. Surprising too since he was still active on it responding to comments fairly recently. Luckily I had his engine pull guide saved to pdf format, here's a link to download it if anyone needs it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6G...ew?usp=sharing I have some of his other diys too so if anyone wants those, pm me

I also had this saved lol,. With mine I tried to remove all the unnecessary webpage formatting and organized the pages & photos page by page to save the printer a bit. Here is what I had if anyone wants it:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3...2lhbi0yWTZCOWs

It doesn't have any name or credits on this copy but yes all credit is due Joey as it is his DIY, I just cleaned it up for my personal use.

[gcoy]

Nice, Thanks for cleaning it up

[Bonz099]

I downloaded the page a while ago, here it is in all of its glory. Just upzip to a location and open the html.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwy...ew?usp=sharing

[gforce1]

Help, looking for a shop in akron / cleveland area to do timing chain. Any suggestions would be helpful.

[0396]

Help, looking for a shop in akron / cleveland area to do timing chain. Any suggestions would be helpful.

When my S4 comes due for timing chain maintenance I too will need a reputable shop in LA. I would like an recommendation for one in LA Calif. What I don't want is a shop that is proficient in doing basic maintenance. And they will "learn " how to perform such services on my S4. Good luck with your search.

[gforce1]

When my S4 comes due for timing chain maintenance I too will need a reputable shop in LA. I would like an recommendation for one in LA Calif. What I don't want is a shop that is proficient in doing basic maintenance. And they will "learn " how to perform such services on my S4. Good luck with your search.

Thanks, got a couple recommendations. One from ECS tuning and another from my regular Audi shop (which would not do the work). Also got a quote - $8500 , seemed ridiculous. If i can't find reasonable, ill have to make choice , either try myself (may take me a month or two), or let it go and let it blow up when it blows. My regular guy said hes seen many with much louder noise go for years and still no other issues.

[0396]

Gforce, thanks for posting these comments from the shops. I've spoken to three Audi dealer and a local shop. The comments from the dealership was, don't listen to all the hype in the web. The independent Audi / European shop mentioned, your just throwing good money away- if you the car doesn't have any check engine light. Forgot about the 107k miles on it. If and when the check engine light comes on and it starts misfiring. Then bring it in
. These cars are ridiculous high to maintain. Case in point, I took my S4 to change the water pump and then they mentioned that I should change the a belt, and the coolant reservoir and a oil pan seal / gasket. I receive a 10% on parts....total out the door was $4200+. -:(.

[neilpaku]

Do it yourself, but first insulate the garage and put a 240v heater in there : )