Trying to decide on DSG or 6MT in the B8 S4..........

[helix139]

Having said that, my dealer told me about 85% of the S4's rolling out the door are DSG's. The nice thing is we have a choice. Some people like to participate, and others like to watch.

Well said. It could be worse, just look at Mercedes where slushbox in the only option on anything outside of the C300

[richib86]

Well said. It could be worse, just look at Mercedes where slushbox in the only option on anything outside of the C300

and slk

[rkdiddy]

Personally you can't go wrong with either. As many have mentioned, it is 100% personal choice. I think NSW4Guy did a great job of describing the Pros/Cons.

I was very hesitant as well, I love MTs, however after owning my DSG car for 3 months now - I would haven't done it different. I've driven numerous dual clutch transmissions in the past and always thought to myself - it is no wonder why this hasn't replaced autos. They were "clunky" at best. This DSG is totally different - it is truly a fantastic transmission.

It's funny, now that I have a tune, if it wasn't for the audible "fart" (as it is affectionately referred to), you would be hard pressed to know the car even shifted. After about 2.5k rpms, there is little to no perceivable power loss - it just continues to pull hard as it makes its' way through the gears.

[Dr GP]

I'M a die hard MT guy. If the S4 was not available with a MT, I would be driving something else. The 6MT in the S4 is really good. Some might like to improve it with a short shifter, but IMHO, its not bad in stock form. I drove a DCT M3 a while ago. While impressed with the instantaneous shifts, I just didn't want one(DCT that is). I would think that after a while, you would tend just to put it in D and steer it like an automatic transmission. If you have a lot of stop and go commuting, your wife won't drive an MT, or you want the fastest shifts on the track, then the DSG is the trans for you. If you love the feel of driving the car and shifting the gears manually, then the 6MT is better. Another thing that has not been mentioned is that the DSG will up shift at 7000 rpms.(no higher) With the 6MT, you can wind the engine a few hundred rpms higher before manually shifting. That is probably the reason the the 6MT, driven hard, is faster than the DSG. Did anyone mention the farting noise the exhaust makes when the DSG upshifts under full throttle?

[NWS4Guy]

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2793220

check that out.. vag will allow to let u see what gear u're in D and S..just like when you're in M mode...

Going to check this out NOW! I can't believe I never saw this before, thanks!

[ACowabunga]

Wasn't there a thread too demonstrating that the 2011 S4's with ADS had a launch control ability making the 0-60 times stonking quick especially with the DSG?

[kapikog]

I drove both a 6MT and S-Tronic before deciding on the S-Tronic. I had also test driven an M3 with DCT, but I couldn't handle the way it rides the clutch at parking lot speeds. On the other hand, it does shift much faster/crisper than S-Tronic (yes, even in dynamic auto or manual mode).

I found the 6MT shifter placement unusally high with the B8 S4. I also found that it the 'direct' connection (after the clutch is released) between engine/wheels took a bit of the edge off of the punch that this car has to offer off of the line (I didn't drop it...). Call me crazy, but the S4 'felt' faster from a standstill and more dramatic at the shift points.

However, FWIW the shift knob looks a lot better on the 6MT ;->, and it does display the great throttle response this car has to offer (during H&T), more so than on the S-Tronic.

Personally, I've been disapointed with the way mine shifts sometimes (in comfort mode). I bought a 'DSG' for the 'perfect' shifts, which I was never able to execute consistently on all of previous cars (5/6MTs).

However, although the transverse VAG DSG trans. seem to offer this characteristic, my car does not. I would say about 10-20% of the shifts (again, at part throttle) are jerky; sometimes it feels like 'someone' just dropped the clutch at 2000 RPM/light throttle - it's kind of weird actually. I also find in manual mode that the shifts aren't executed soon enough after I depress the paddle (up or down), and that the actual engagment is not nearly crisp/fast enough. It almost feels like the clutch is slipping, not unlike many an M3 CSL...

I had another reminder of the tansverse VAG DSG, when I last had my car in at the dealer to complain about this tranny. During the ~3hrs I had it, I noticed maybe one shift that wasn't quite as good as would have expected (I tried it in both manual and auto modes). I remember the S-tronic S4 tester I had made my decision with, also shifted much better. That's why I took mine in to complain.

[Bigonion]

I have your same car set for delivery in 48 hours.

Went back and forth on dsg versus 6mt. Took a couple test drives and the dsg, while quicker than other autoboxes, still felt...like an autobox, with a couple unplanned downshifts and upshifts. Its annoying, and so uninvolved. Agree completely that the whole point of a high performance car is to be involved with it, intimate with the mechanicals and the movement along the road. There is a poetry to driving stick and feathering the clutch and bopping between gears in certain streets that just gets lost altogether in autoboxes, even with fast shifting dual clutch setups. Yeah, in slow traffic it gets irksome. Who buys an S4 with a focus on the experience in traffic jams?

It is becoming a dying art but I still love manuals.

2011 S4 Quartz Grey, 6mt, black leather, stock for now...

[rktskicar]

I sort of think you should drive both and pick the one you like best. I drove both and picked the 6MT, but you may be different .

Bruce

[HAWKiS5]

Interesting thread..............since I went for the S5 cabrio, I had no choice..........and was forced into the S-tronic gearbox. Before I had a S5 coupe 6MT and before a S4 cabrio 6MT (one of the few, most were sold with TT) and if the S5 cabrio had been offered with a 6MT I would definitely had chosen that one over the S-tronic.

So I now drive the S-tronic, and it is a great box.........the best gearbox you can buy..............if you want an auto-box!

Some remarks (after experience with previous and current S-tronic for about one year now):
- It still is far away from the involvement a 6MT box can offer.
- You struggle all the time to be in the right setting (Comfort/D, Auto or Dynamic/S), that fits the character you need at that moment
- the Auto setting seems "just" D (comfort), and not anticipating at all to be in S (Dynamic) when you need it
- when you really want to go fast, you need torque, so best is to be in the 2000-5000 rpm range, but no...........when you floor it, the box decides to go in kick-down mode and shifts (too) late, around 6800 rpm, which makes no sense if you want torque. So you have to not floor it completely, to have the box in the right gear
- even in Manual mode...........the box decides to up/down shift when you don't want it (the down shift with too few rpm ok, but when flooring it in e.g. M4, you don't want it to go to M3 (with high rpm, but less torque!), but leave it in M4 and shift yourself to M5 when you are ready for it); as written before, it also upshifts in Manual mode, sometimes ok, but sometimes you want to go to the red line first (when you need power and less torque)
- it is not possible to have S/dynamic throttle response (which should be standard/normal on an S4/S5) and Auto/Comfort/D gearbox => the throttle response and gearbox settings always are coupled, so either both in Dynamic/S or both in Comfort/Auto/D, or is there a VAGCOM hack for this?) => in a 6MT, you can have Dynamic/S throttle response I assume?
- the mileage is really terrible (14-15 liter/100 km, compared to 11-12 liter/100 km in my V8 6MT, see many other threads about this subject), don't know if this is because of the S-tronic or because of the V6T (any V6T 6MT owners who can confirm/decline this?)

Some pluses of the S-tronic:
- the sound when up/downshifting is great with the S-tronic (will be almost impossible to match with a 6MT imho)
- the shifting times are almost perfect (not to be matched by 6MT or any other auto-box)

My conclusion: if you are used to auto-gearboxes............the S-tronic is the most perfect/best choice you can have. If you like involved driving..........go for the 6MT!

BTW: it is indeed possible with the VAG COM hack to show the Dx or Sx gear indicator in the DIS.

[Dave-B8S4]

I have the DSG and personally haven't found myself wishing i picked up the 6MT, if it wasn't my daily driver id probably get the 6MT.

[PGP128]

I have 6MT and about 5000km on the car now...seems like I've adjusted to the clutch and shifter (or they have been broken in a bit and became a lot smoother) and I really enjoy driving the S4 as a daily driver in congested Vancouver streets most of the time.

The S4 has so much torque that I can usually skip a gear in normal driving conditions. If I start at 1st, I go to 3rd, 5th, then 6th. If for some reason, I'm in 2nd, I usually go to 4th, then 6th. I also have full ADS so, in my individual settings, I have every item on "auto" and the engine on "dynamic"... gives me a cushy ride but with great throttle response. I'm really enjoying the car.

I had test drove the DSG before and just felt I have more control with the 6MT. It doesn't matter how technically advanced the DSG is, it really cannot anticipate the road conditions or how I want the car to respond at that instant - with the MT, I have total control.

btw, no problems whatsoever on this 2011 model!

[NickS]

Going to check this out NOW! I can't believe I never saw this before, thanks!

Did it work?? :)

[HAWKiS5]

I have the DSG and personally haven't found myself wishing i picked up the 6MT, if it wasn't my daily driver id probably get the 6MT.

Before, did you drive manuals or autoboxes most of time?

The S4 has so much torque that I can usually skip a gear in normal driving conditions. If I start at 1st, I go to 3rd, 5th, then 6th. If for some reason, I'm in 2nd, I usually go to 4th, then 6th. I also have full ADS so, in my individual settings, I have every item on "auto" and the engine on "dynamic"... gives me a cushy ride but with great throttle response. I'm really enjoying the car.

I had test drove the DSG before and just felt I have more control with the 6MT. It doesn't matter how technically advanced the DSG is, it really cannot anticipate the road conditions or how I want the car to respond at that instant - with the MT, I have total control.

That is my (default!) Individual setting also: only I have to put the gearbox in Dynamic also, otherwise the car gets to "lame" in response, but with a 6MT box, I defnitely would do the same.

[Voltrons_Head]

Did it work?? :)

It did. He posted it in the VCDS thread. I'm doing it tonight when I get home. This has really annoyed me.

[NickS]

It did. He posted it in the VCDS thread. I'm doing it tonight when I get home. This has really annoyed me.

Link please? I can't keep up with all this... lol

And agreed.... I hate it. Makes no sense. When I got the HPA DSG upgrade on my R32, this was one of the features they changed. I loved it.

[Voltrons_Head]

^^Voila!

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post6094837

[Deckdout2]

What's a good thread to look into about this DSG update that HPA is coming out with? I want to read up on the details and what features it will offer when released. It might also help in my decision process.

[NickS]

^^Voila!

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post6094837

Danke'

[NWS4Guy]

What's a good thread to look into about this DSG update that HPA is coming out with? I want to read up on the details and what features it will offer when released. It might also help in my decision process.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...one-with-a-DSG...

[Deckdout2]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...one-with-a-DSG...

Jing'qui-a

[Phrost]

I like the DSG, and enjoy the ease of having an automatic at times. However, using the paddle shifters is still not the same as a manual transmission. I too seriously considered the DSG for its convenience and ability to shift faster, but:

6mt is cheaper
DSG will never feel like a manual with a clutch
I like being able to rev, and pop the clutch in the winter etc.

so I bought the 6mt

[burrito007]

i really think if HPA comes out with this transmission software we will all buy it.

[NWS4Guy]

Did it work?? :)

Indeed (sorry for blurrycam shot)

[rkdiddy]

Indeed (sorry for blurrycam shot)

That is fantastic. I asked my little brother to bring over his Vag-com this weekend to get this setup on my car. Cheers!

[Dave-B8S4]

Before, did you drive manuals or autoboxes most of time?

Little bit of half and half. the truck i traded in for the s4 was automatic but i learned to drive stick before auto.

[HAWKiS5]

6mt is cheaper

Here (in NL) the 6MT is more expensive(!) than the S-tronic because our car tax is mainly based on CO2 emission, and since (on paper!) the S-tronic has lower C)2 values, it is not a price argument anymore (this is the case with many high performance cars, so the manuals are sold less and less....).

[Bigonion]

How do you like ADS? I got the sport diff but no ADS and am wondering if I am missing something.

[drvolkl]

I sort of think you should drive both and pick the one you like best. I drove both and picked the 6MT, but you may be different .

Bruce

+1. If I was going to buy an "automatic" S4, the DSG would be the way to go for sure. It's a fantastic transmission. I prefer manuals and generally buy manual cars whenever the chance arises. HOWEVER, the DSG is pretty awesome and if I wanted to take it back a notch, I would have gotten one. However I do not commute in traffic and I still crave shifting with my feet involved, so I went for the 6mt. No regrets at all. 2nd nature.

I also had a 2002 Maxima... and guess what, it was a 6spd (rare as you know).

My 2002 S6 was the tiptronic... and as cool as it was to hit the buttons to shift, I generally just left it in "drive" or "s" mode and let the car do the work (especially after the first month of owning the car and the novelty of "shifting" wore off). I think that's what I'd probably do if I had the DSG.... because the car does it by itself so damn well you end up not shifting with the paddles. Why bother? Foot down, car goes... why mess it up?

... and there's nothing wrong with that.. in fact, it's pretty nice because you know what you're going to get all of the time... so you have to ask yourself what you want from the car.

[salmjo1]

You know... Here is my dilemna... I have the 6MT. I love it now that the defective clutch has been replaced under 2k miles... The new clutch (once warmed up) now creaks if I let out the clutch very slowly. ( Not sure if its because its brand new with like 20 miles on it) I will wait til 5k service to bring it up in case something needs lubing. I had a slightly modded 2004 350Z and I loved the clutch/tranny in that car. Im not sure if the feel is different in the Audi because of the quattro system transfering power but sometimes it felt a little jerky (with old clutch) and I am really not a drive-by-wire fan but I got used to it :-). I liked the drive by cable opening throttle body style more it felt better to me as a driver. Now, having driven an E60 M5 for 3 months here in NY I would say that if the DSG is anything like that or better I should have gone with the DSG. (only because my car was in the shop 3x for the clutch jerkiness, clicking, etc etc.)

Now I am told its normal once certain clutches get hot for them to have mechanical sounds like a creaking pedal. The creaking I have in my car seems like a non lubed spring to the pedal not heard outside or under the car just felt through my foot and barely heard inside. Anyone else can chime in on if this is normal.
The throw is a little long and a STS will fix this problem. So hopefully if you choose a 6MT yours wiull be better cause apparently I have a demon clutch lol.

Search around, this is a recognized issue, and can be fixed, I believe under warranty.

I have a good buddy bought an M3 with the DCT. He's getting ready to trade it in, says he'll never have another. Yes it is fast if you are really pushing it, but in regular driving, the manual is just more involving.

I just - and I mean minute ago - ordered an S4 with manual. I cannot have a paddle shifter that will shift for you in manual mode under any condition, even rev limiter. Just cannot do it.

Every manual I have owned since about 2004 has rev matched on downshifts. Not always very well, but it happens :)

[NickS]

There is no comparison between BMW's DCT and Audi's (VW's) DSG..... NONE. DSG is above and beyond better than the BMW version.

[imaudihr]

Search around, this is a recognized issue, and can be fixed, I believe under warranty.

I have a good buddy bought an M3 with the DCT. He's getting ready to trade it in, says he'll never have another. Yes it is fast if you are really pushing it, but in regular driving, the manual is just more involving.

I just - and I mean minute ago - ordered an S4 with manual. I cannot have a paddle shifter that will shift for you in manual mode under any condition, even rev limiter. Just cannot do it.

Every manual I have owned since about 2004 has rev matched on downshifts. Not always very well, but it happens :)

Not familiar with this feature. What car for example? I have an 04 S4 and can't imagine needing a computer to match revs...? That being said I recognize how much weight is in the flywheel, and possibly the vehicles you drive are configured much differently...

Also, FYI, the first ever car to feature this was the 2009 Nissan 370z and it was released as a lot of drivers couldn't handle doing it themselves...

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10102550-48.html

Just sayin...

Also, congrats on the purchase.

Back to the OP. I find there are 2 types of drivers. Ones who will only drive stick, even knowing there are performance benefits to SMG, and ones that wonder if they could handle only driving stick.

If you know, you know. If you don't you may end up wishing you could eat that Bigmac and have a slurp of the Biggulp while texting and beating that e90... Instead of controlling the drivetrain almost completely yourself.

[HAWKiS5]

How do you like ADS? I got the sport diff but no ADS and am wondering if I am missing something.

Sportdiff with ADS makes it possible to change the sportdiff setting from Auto to Comfort or Dynamic. If you really feel any difference in normal life, I doubt it. ADS is more usefull with the Dynamic steering (that really makes a noticeable difference!) and Adaptive suspension (dito).

[Deckdout2]

Some good info in this thread. Just wanted to put that out there.... :)

[t0mt0m]

beware of the dsg farting issues with aftermarket exhausts :)
+1 for 6mt =]

[ChrisMT79]

It is a matter of personal preference. For me, I don't care if I shifted 10x's slower than a computer (though I don't) as I do not drag race or track very much either. I love the driving control, and ability to shift at my own leisure. It becomes more of an experience to hone your technique and overall it's just been something I enjoy. Some do not find this enjoyment and/or perhaps would like to squeeze every millisecond out of their times and that is understandable. You will also hear the complaint of traffic etc.. I drive 80 miles a day to, and from work and for the 10-20 mins I might get stuck in traffic, well, the other 80% of the time I am enjoying the act of driving itself. Plus I think it tends to keep you more active and aware, paying less attention to the nav/phone or whatever else people generally get distracted with.

You really can't go wrong either way though. Its a great car and you'll find yourself enjoying which ever option you select.

[mg6045]

I really love the DSG offerings by Audi and VW, but to be VERY honest , the DSG and software for it in this car are very lame IMO. I drove this car recently with the DSG and its very tamed down. Not aggressive like the TTS or GTI DSG's.

[Bigonion]

6mt. Hands down. The 6mt in the s4 is about as easy to drive, whether soft or hard, as any manual I have ever had. The clutch is very mellow. You have great control, can keep engine revs exactly where you want them. I tested a dsg thoroughly before purchase. In 2 words: no joy. It works fine, but It feels like I am driving a very fast vacuum cleaner with it.

[Chimyz]

beware of the dsg farting issues with aftermarket exhausts :)
+1 for 6mt =]

What are the issues?

[unique1]

6MT here, didn't even seriously consider the DSG for my wife, her call.