Another exhaust manifold option for stock setups.

[Bische]

what turbo are you bolting on there? GTRS?

[EBG 18T]

what turbo are you bolting on there? GTRS?

IIRC Franken

[EErie B6]

what turbo are you bolting on there? GTRS?

IIRC Franken

EBG is correct.

I went back and forth between the two. In the end, faster spool and over all value won out over the extra 20-30hp I could have safely run on the GTRS on a stock bottom.

[Bische]

aight

[black99.5a4]

john/dan, i have an aeb manifold if you guys wnt even more comparisons

[gmx]

AMB & AEB PNs are the same.

For ref: 058 253 033 E

[black99.5a4]

thats crazy since the exhaust ports on aeb are bigger... bastard audi.. nvm then guys

[M-Hood]

EBG is correct.

I went back and forth between the two. In the end, faster spool and over all value won out over the extra 20-30hp I could have safely run on the GTRS on a stock bottom.

20-30hp difference? The Frankenturbo makes about 230whp, you can get nearly 300whp on pump gas with the GTRS and that is still on the safe side on a stock bottom end.
Plenty people have made 330whp on race gas with stock bottom end running the Elim kit.

[black99.5a4]

i plan to go gt28rs on the daily.. i kept reading the FT was only an "over sized" ko4 essentially

[Bische]

20-30hp difference? The Frankenturbo makes about 230whp, you can get nearly 300whp on pump gas with the GTRS and that is still on the safe side on a stock bottom end.
Plenty people have made 330whp on race gas with stock bottom end running the Elim kit.

Is it common to run 300ish unopened?

[cdn20valve]

i plan to go gt28rs on the daily.. i kept reading the FT was only an "over sized" ko4 essentially

[EErie B6]

20-30hp difference? The Frankenturbo makes about 230whp, you can get nearly 300whp on pump gas with the GTRS and that is still on the safe side on a stock bottom end.
Plenty people have made 330whp on race gas with stock bottom end running the Elim kit.

And then theres also stories of people like Daniel "B6 Lovin" who scattered their shit across the highway.

My basis was not on what the turbo can do but what the bottom end can do. Cdn20valve's FT did 240hp on a stock intake tract, stock smic, and 386cc injectors. Most people agree that you shouldn't push a stock bottom past about 275whp. I can't afford a bottom end at the moment and the FT gets me close enough.

I'm not trying to do it once. I'm not looking for bragging rights, I just want to push the stock bottom as far as i can safely and have lightning quick spool. I'm going to beat the piss out of it. It's also going to be used for autocross where minimal lag is everything. All said and done it's also $700 or so cheaper.

I'll let someone else be king of the dyno.

[M-Hood]

And then theres also stories of people like Daniel "B6 Lovin" who scattered their shit across the highway.

My basis was not on what the turbo can do but what the bottom end can do. Cdn20valve's FT did 240hp on a stock intake tract, stock smic, and 386cc injectors. Most people agree that you shouldn't push a stock bottom past about 275whp. I can't afford a bottom end at the moment and the FT gets me close enough.

I'm not trying to do it once. I'm not looking for bragging rights, I just want to push the stock bottom as far as i can safely and have lightning quick spool. I'm going to beat the piss out of it. It's also going to be used for autocross where minimal lag is everything. All said and done it's also $700 or so cheaper.

I'll let someone else be king of the dyno.

Blowing the engine up has nothing to do with how much hp your getting out of the turbo, not even how much tq. It has to do with the tuning and how much adv timing the tune is running at peak tq. If the timing is way too aggressive you can blow up the motor making K03 power. So it isn't the turbo that is the issue it is the person that is playing with it to make max power and something they do goes completely wrong. Peak hp has nothing to do with the rods bending or snapping. Just look at Gregs 350+whp dyno on stock rods pushing an elim kit to 32+psi on 110 octane. If dont right that type of power can be made on stock rods without then exiting the block.

People that usually blow their stuff up are usually playing with the timing trying to take advantage of different fuel or w/m injection.

As for the 275whp being the limit, only people I know that think that are on Passat World and nearly all of those are FWD owners. Funny thing is nearly all of them think the limits of the stock rods is 300chp. LOL

Yes I know he made 239whp, seen the vids of it. About the same as what a T28 or GT28r makes. I know what the FT and Elim kits make.

There is no such thing as lag, you are just talking about having a turbo setup that has a power band lower in the rpms and it is called boost threshold. Not sure why people keep calling that "lag". Fact is a GT turbo is going to have very little lag, less then a journal bearing turbo.

Basically what I was trying to say is the 20-30hp difference you stated is a bit off.

[vinny.dtw]

20-30hp difference? The Frankenturbo makes about 230whp, you can get nearly 300whp on pump gas with the GTRS and that is still on the safe side on a stock bottom end.
Plenty people have made 330whp on race gas with stock bottom end running the Elim kit.

I really want to get a ride in these nearly 300whp GTRS B6 cars and see if I feel any difference in mine. Because I honestly don't feel like mine is "near 300whp car"...nor does it stack up to many fast cars that I dicked around with.

[J3RR3L]

And then theres also stories of people like Daniel "B6 Lovin" who scattered their shit across the highway.

if it makes you feel better, there are people running the same tune and turbo that Daniel had with/out catastrophic effects. Just listen to mike

[cdn20valve]

if it makes you feel better, there are people running the same tune and turbo that Daniel had with/out catastrophic effects. Just listen to mike

AUtocross? Which means he's gonna be driving the shit out of it.

I've seen with my own eyes! AN APR Stage 3 car bend a rod. I diagnosed, and repaired it. (customer car), was not race gas.

[J3RR3L]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beT5-gegg5Y
an old video on what an 1.8t w/gtrs can do at the track..

[a4darkness]

Cool vid.

[M-Hood]

AUtocross? Which means he's gonna be driving the shit out of it.

I've seen with my own eyes! AN APR Stage 3 car bend a rod. I diagnosed, and repaired it. (customer car), was not race gas.

And what do you think I do with every single car I have been handed the keys? I have personally drag raced 3 stock bottom end B6's running a GTRS Elim, GT2871r Elim and a full body GT2871r all pushing around 330whp. All of them running 12.6-12.7 at the drag strip.

[black99.5a4]

i am far from crying over the fact the ft is just a glorified ko4. sorry you wasted your money

[EErie B6]

Blowing the engine up has nothing to do with how much hp your getting out of the turbo, not even how much tq. It has to do with the tuning and how much adv timing the tune is running at peak tq. If the timing is way too aggressive you can blow up the motor making K03 power. So it isn't the turbo that is the issue it is the person that is playing with it to make max power and something they do goes completely wrong. Peak hp has nothing to do with the rods bending or snapping. Just look at Gregs 350+whp dyno on stock rods pushing an elim kit to 32+psi on 110 octane. If dont right that type of power can be made on stock rods without then exiting the block.

People that usually blow their stuff up are usually playing with the timing trying to take advantage of different fuel or w/m injection.

As for the 275whp being the limit, only people I know that think that are on Passat World and nearly all of those are FWD owners. Funny thing is nearly all of them think the limits of the stock rods is 300chp. LOL

Yes I know he made 239whp, seen the vids of it. About the same as what a T28 or GT28r makes. I know what the FT and Elim kits make.

There is no such thing as lag, you are just talking about having a turbo setup that has a power band lower in the rpms and it is called boost threshold. Not sure why people keep calling that "lag". Fact is a GT turbo is going to have very little lag, less then a journal bearing turbo.

Basically what I was trying to say is the 20-30hp difference you stated is a bit off.

I'm sorry. Let me rephrase: I wanted a turbo with a slightly lower "boost threshold" so I could be in boost sooner. I am more concerned with how fast I can build boost in second gear... not fourth.

if it makes you feel better, there are people running the same tune and turbo that Daniel had with/out catastrophic effects. Just listen to mike

The way my luck is, I would likely end up occupying the seat right next to Daniel in the T-chart. Hell, you will probably see me blow it up with the FT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beT5-gegg5Y
an old video on what an 1.8t w/gtrs can do at the track..

That is a full size track, completely different than Auto-X. 90% of an Auto-X run takes place in second gear with varying RPMs from about 2500-7500. Typically in the 3000-5000 range. Thats too close to the "boost threshold" to consistently run well especially considering every track you are presented with is different.

And what do you think I do with every single car I have been handed the keys? I have personally drag raced 3 stock bottom end B6's running a GTRS Elim, GT2871r Elim and a full body GT2871r all pushing around 330whp. All of them running 12.6-12.7 at the drag strip.

This is old news. Is there anyone that does not know this?

i am far from crying over the fact the ft is just a glorified ko4. sorry you wasted your money

thats a pretty ignorant statement. Does your shit even run? I feel like your car has been under construction since the time of Moses.

The FT is not a waste of money if you know what you are getting. No one ever claimed it wasn't a K04. For my needs, this turbo suits me just fine. No matter how I slice it, it will still be somewhere around 60-70whp more than I have currently. The odds are its going to have less than 6k miles on it when it comes time for me to sell it and move on anyways. My B6 averages about 3k miles per year with most of it being recreational.

As far as the "moar biggerr r moar betrr" mentality... I had my time in high school and it was fun. I no longer care about who's car is faster on the highway. After a while, paying fines and elevated insurance rates gets old. If you want to do that, thats completely up to you.

From a drag racing perspective...
The B6 sucks as a drag car,so theres really no use in pursuing that. Theres people in here that have changed their transmission damn near as many times as my car has had oil changes. not interested. I can think of several who started with a perfectly decent A4 and have trashed it in short order... their fate is almost always the same. Build a car with the hope they can make it fast, in the process they destroy the quality of the car. They spend endless amounts of time trying to make it all work right, spend countless hours fixing it, eventually getting bored with falling short of their goal, eventually stripping it down and parting it out. Once again, if you want to do that, its your car, have at it. Your shit will likely be blown up, parted out, and gone long before mine is.

Personally, my latest infatuation has been with autocross. Its a ton of fun and you don't need to check your mirrors for lightbars. As it turns out, the B6 makes a half decent autocross car with a few well placed mods. For now, this is the direction I want to go. When I get bored with it maybe ill tear it apart and build it in a different direction.

Don't get all butt-hurt over how I choose to mod my car. When it is your money you're spending, then you may have an opinion. Donations are accepted. Upon donating, I will gladly take your opinions into consideration. Thanks.

In the end, a car is a depreciating asset. we are all pissing away cash that we can never get back. It is all done in the name of fun.

[Dan[FN]6262]

my car can haz fast!!

[boy412]

Nice retort(s) J!

[boy412]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beT5-gegg5Y
an old video on what an 1.8t w/gtrs can do at the track..

[black99.5a4]

thats a pretty ignorant statement. Does your shit even run? I feel like your car has been under construction since the time of Moses.

The FT is not a waste of money if you know what you are getting. No one ever claimed it wasn't a K04. For my needs, this turbo suits me just fine. No matter how I slice it, it will still be somewhere around 60-70whp more than I have currently. The odds are its going to have less than 6k miles on it when it comes time for me to sell it and move on anyways. My B6 averages about 3k miles per year with most of it being recreational.

As far as the "moar biggerr r moar betrr" mentality... I had my time in high school and it was fun. I no longer care about who's car is faster on the highway. After a while, paying fines and elevated insurance rates gets old. If you want to do that, thats completely up to you.

I never made mention or cared how you mod your car.. read up to my first statement dickhole, it was open ended bc i dont keep up with the FT stuff. I didn't say you shouldnt buy it. I said i am going gtrs bc i kept reading the ft is just an oversized ko4... and 10+ ko4 (past and present) have wished they stepped it one common size up.. Nothing I said was pointed at you.

I havent touched my car in a year or 2, its still on stands, hell my motor isnt even assembled, but I think you should spend those wasted hours of changing your mind every 30 seconds and not worry about my black car (which is going back together stock and being sold.. id rather drive my 70k miled 01 car).. If you are talking about the black b6 I am building, then hey, i can only go as far as the money i am given will allow.

[EErie B6]

youre so fucking cool with your half assed wannabe cool kid comments. whats it matter if my car runs? i havent touched my car since feb 2009. i only asked if that was what the ft was, the other guy posted the tissue picture and you get butthurt? (read my first fucking comment, idiot) you have issues dude. you need to pull your head out of your ass. i dont give 2 fucks what setup you go with, bc youll change your mind and annoy everyone on the forum with your 16 different decisions before anything touches your car. if you are talking about the b6 not running, then read my thread its not my car and i can only go as far as the $$ the owner has.. which hes been broke for like 8 months. Its not any of your business but if you wanna comment on something that doesnt pertain to you.

Don't PM me again.

[Bische]

[EBG 18T]

Based on the conversations i have with John the FT will suit his needs just fine. Actually with his tire/wheel selection and the new low end torque the car should do much better than his setup last year his local courses. Every car is designed for something different and has individual goals. If i was still auto-x'ing as much as i was before i would have kept my Hybird K04. It was defintly better & easier to drive on the auto0x course due the low rpm spool than my current GT28 sereis setup.

Good luck John. I think your setup will run quite well for your intended purpose.

[M-Hood]

This is old news. Is there anyone that does not know this?

Yes I understand it is old news, you would be suprised how many people dont. It is also very old news that people have been making over 300hp/tq at the wheels for many years on the stock rods. Some have even been making that much power on the stock rods for a very long time, proving the point of what the stock rods can handle when tuned correctly.

[doublezero30]

20-30hp difference? The Frankenturbo makes about 230whp, you can get nearly 300whp on pump gas with the GTRS and that is still on the safe side on a stock bottom end.
Plenty people have made 330whp on race gas with stock bottom end running the Elim kit.

from the butt dyno, my GTRS elim on stock mani makes nowhere near that. revo T-3- B-9. wastegate actuater rod recently broke, 034 replaced it...still no difference. plus im sportin a HFC now too. fail. also, boost leaks have been checked over and over...theres nothing.

[cdn20valve]

MHOOD, I'm not convinced that ignition timing can blow rods, because if that were the case there would be lots of N/A volkswagen with bent rods. I run/ran a shitvload of ign advance on all my N/A VW's, past and present. Numerous different motors all stock rods. And have never bent a rod.

If you have solid proof that ign advance is bending rods in VAG engines, than please share it. But my experience shows otherwise.

I still don't know what you point is here. And why you seem to be taking this so personal.

[zanadu]

Sort of an unrelated question, but how do you get access to ETKA ? i'd love to be able to look up part numbers and diagrams.

[M-Hood]

MHOOD, I'm not convinced that ignition timing can blow rods, because if that were the case there would be lots of N/A volkswagen with bent rods. I run/ran a shitvload of ign advance on all my N/A VW's, past and present. Numerous different motors all stock rods. And have never bent a rod.

If you have solid proof that ign advance is bending rods in VAG engines, than please share it. But my experience shows otherwise.

I still don't know what you point is here. And why you seem to be taking this so personal.

You do understand we are talking about too much adv timing at peak boost? Not sure what that has to do with a NA car.

All of the A4's that bend rods tend to be using tunes that have very aggressive adv timing. The Revo tunes tend to have soft adv timing at peak tq and then ramp it up from there. This is why so many of the Elim kits pushing high hp are running Revo tuning without bending rods. Let me know when you are running a shitload of timing and high boost on a 1.8t on the stock rods.


Who is taking anything personal? I deal with both the FT and Elim kits, so it isn't like I am taking sides of either. Just saying what both can make power wise.

[M-Hood]

from the butt dyno, my GTRS elim on stock mani makes nowhere near that. revo T-3- B-9. wastegate actuater rod recently broke, 034 replaced it...still no difference. plus im sportin a HFC now too. fail. also, boost leaks have been checked over and over...theres nothing.

Well the stock manifold is going to be some what of a restriction. So that might be why if feels like the car is not making that type of power. To get the max power from the Elim kit you have to have the supporting mods.

[boy412]

Sort of an unrelated question, but how do you get access to ETKA ? i'd love to be able to look up part numbers and diagrams.

Try vagcat

[EErie B6]

Based on the conversations i have with John the FT will suit his needs just fine. Actually with his tire/wheel selection and the new low end torque the car should do much better than his setup last year his local courses. Every car is designed for something different and has individual goals. If i was still auto-x'ing as much as i was before i would have kept my Hybird K04. It was defintly better & easier to drive on the auto0x course due the low rpm spool than my current GT28 sereis setup.

Good luck John. I think your setup will run quite well for your intended purpose.

Thanks Eric.

[diagnosticator]

yep waiting for evidence of better flow before purchase

I think that is reasonable. It's practically a given that it will flow better than the AMB, since the BEX has more torque and HP than the AMB. The primary advantage the BEX manifold offers, is that it will flow the same mass flow rate, with less back pressure before the manifold exhaust runners, and has the internal structures to help minimize interference between the four cylinders exhaust pulses traveling to the turbine inlet.

[doublezero30]

I think that is reasonable. It's practically a given that it will flow better than the AMB, since the BEX has more torque and HP than the AMB. The primary advantage the BEX manifold offers, is that it will flow the same mass flow rate, with less back pressure before the manifold exhaust runners, and has the internal structures to help minimize interference between the four cylinders exhaust pulses traveling to the turbine inlet.

http://www.bildelsbasen.se/?link=lis...ry=06B253033AH

there is a plethora of used BEX manifolds. i dont know much about the website though. i cant tell what language, what currency, or whether they ship to USA...or even if its a good deal. but thought someone on here might know?


EDIT: looks like its swedish...and the three that have prices are about $150. wonder if they ship to the states?

[Kittrell]

It's Swedish, you can just click the little UK flag though.

[n7plus1]

so whos testing?