Rings...HELP

[Kemer1]

Hey gang. I'm in a bit of a dilema. I'm gonna get a new set of wheels for my C6 within the next month of so. The issue is one set of wheels is not hubcentric, but I was told that rings would be included.

So the question is does anyone here run rings in their set up? Is it a bad idea to even risk the bad fitting wheels? Does anyone have issues with their rims with rings? Or should I just sat to hell with it and get the rims that are already hubcentric?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[pit viper]

rings work just fine

[autophiles]

Hub centric rings work great.. that is their purpose. I ran MB spec wheels on my old A6 and had no issues with wheel alignment... I also had no "wobble" issues or anything like that. I ran the wheels for about 4 years too.. hope that helps.

[FrankA6]

i think just about 95% of us with custom wheels run hubcentric rings or hubcentric spacers. they work perfect.

[Kemer1]

Thanks a lot guys. I thought it would be ok, but for some reason, my service advisor at the dealership was dead set against using them. So looks like you guys just cost me an extra $600 for the other set of rims. But they should look really sick. Pics to follow...

[A4edwin]

dealer always says no no toanything aftermarket on a car. only time i ever had a problem with my rings were when i had a flat ring on tight over hub

[Kemer1]

Well yeah, but this guy is an enthusiast as well. Has a Nogaro Blue S4 that's nicely modded so I took him at his word. But oh well...I'll be ordering my new wheels within the next couple of weeks.

[HOFFY11]

i think just about 95% of us with custom wheels run hubcentric rings or hubcentric spacers. they work perfect.

amen brothaa..wasnt even aware you could get nice aftermarkets without using them haha

[Kemer1]

amen brothaa..wasnt even aware you could get nice aftermarkets without using them haha

Oh yeah...TSW's are hubcentric for VAG products...my ACE RS4 reps were, all the reps from alloy r us are, and I think the VAG specific stuff from Velocity (VMR) is. Otherwise you have to use rings.

[VMRWheels]

Our VMR Wheels are all hub centric and designed to use OEM lug bolts. =)

-Charles@VMRWheels
www.vmrwheels.com

[FrankA6]

amen brothaa..wasnt even aware you could get nice aftermarkets without using them haha

well you can, but they don't seem to work well when using spacers and such, when i order all my wheels i get them larger than 57.1 so i can use spacers, and if don't need spacers i just put the rings in, my 18" RS6 9-spokes are hubcentric like factory wheels (57.1) and i can't find spacers to work with them, but they are just winter wheels, so no biggie.

[lodit]

well you can, but they don't seem to work well when using spacers and such, when i order all my wheels i get them larger than 57.1 so i can use spacers, and if don't need spacers i just put the rings in, my 18" RS6 9-spokes are hubcentric like factory wheels (57.1) and i can't find spacers to work with them, but they are just winter wheels, so no biggie.

Uh, just checking that you're aware rings and spacers are two different things, right?

Rings are used to fit the wheel onto the center of the wheel hub if the bore diameter of the wheel is larger than the factory 57.1mm.

Spacers are used to distance the wheel outwards from the hub.

On a side note, if, when you put your wheels on with the rings and you get vibrations, it's possible that one or more of the rings aren't up to spec. Happened to me last summer, and the rim dealer replaced the rings for me. After that, no vibrations. That is, of course, assuming your wheels are balanced and your car is aligned properly with the new wheels on.

Other than that...carry on.

[FrankA6]

Uh, just checking that you're aware rings and spacers are two different things, right?

Rings are used to fit the wheel onto the center of the wheel hub if the bore diameter of the wheel is larger than the factory 57.1mm.

Spacers are used to distance the wheel outwards from the hub.

On a side note, if, when you put your wheels on with the rings and you get vibrations, it's possible that one or more of the rings aren't up to spec. Happened to me last summer, and the rim dealer replaced the rings for me. After that, no vibrations. That is, of course, assuming your wheels are balanced and your car is aligned properly with the new wheels on.

Other than that...carry on.

first off i know what a spacer and centric ring is, all i was pointing out was, when you get a factory wheel (57.1) you need to find a spacer where the front is 57.1 and the back plate where it meets the hub is 57.1 and good luck with that, when i got my 18 RS6 9-Spokes i ordered H&R spacers, and they don't work, the front lip on the spacer wont fit in the wheel, but the back of the spacer is 57.1 ............... so in other words i order all my custom wheels in 66.7 or 70.1 ...ect so that the front lip of the spacer will fit in the wheel and the back plate is still hub centric so you don't get any wheel shake or vibration....and if you don't end up using spacers, you still have hub rings for the wheels, i would never order custom wheels in 57.1 unless you plan on keeping the wheels looking like a factory wheel....but not everyone is the same, i like alot of poke and stretched tires...but w/e

[lodit]

first off i know what a spacer and centric ring is, all i was pointing out was, when you get a factory wheel (57.1) you need to find a spacer where the front is 57.1 and the back plate where it meets the hub is 57.1 and good luck with that, when i got my 18 RS6 9-Spokes i ordered H&R spacers, and they don't work, the front lip on the spacer wont fit in the wheel, but the back of the spacer is 57.1 ............... so in other words i order all my custom wheels in 66.7 or 70.1 ...ect so that the front lip of the spacer will fit in the wheel and the back plate is still hub centric so you don't get any wheel shake or vibration....and if you don't end up using spacers, you still have hub rings for the wheels, i would never order custom wheels in 57.1 unless you plan on keeping the wheels looking like a factory wheel....but not everyone is the same, i like alot of poke and stretched tires...but w/e

Didn't mean to offend you, but rings and spacers typically serve two different purposes.

Perhaps you were referring to spacers with a protruding lip, which would kill two birds with one stone, so to speak, and is necessary for larger spacer sizes, but would not necessarily negate the need for rings if the bore diameter of the aftermarket wheel is not factory-matched.

The reason for using them is because the wheel needs to sit on and rotate about the hub center to maintain alignment with the hub assembly, but if the spacer pushes the wheel too far out, it will not sit on the hub center and therefore the wheel is only held in place by the lug bolts (similar to not using hubcentric rings to ensure a snug fit between your wheel and hub), which is dangerous and can cause all sorts of issues. By the spacer having this protruding lip, the wheel can then sit and rotate around this lip (which is bolted to the hub) much like the hub center and therefore alleviate the potential risk of damage.

However, spacers of the size necessary to incorporate the hubcentric lip are not without additional weight costs, and also pushing the wheels out so far causes excess strain on the suspension because of the widened stance.

Try this to get an idea of what I'm talking about:

Do a push up with your arms shoulder width apart, but stop halfway down and hold for 5 sec.
Then do a pushup with your arms further than shoulder width apart, and stop halfway down and try to hold for the same 5 sec.
You might notice your chest sagging more on the 2nd pushup and your arms stressing a little more than the 1st. Same deal with the car, unless you get a suspension adjustment done to compensate for this wheel change.

To answer the OP's question, it's fine to use hubcentric rings in your aftermarket wheels to fit the bore diameter of your hub center. If you receive properly spec'd rings, there should be no issues with fitting the wheel on the hub.

Assuming your chosen wheel (with/without hubcentric rings) meets the factory spec bore diameter and lug pattern (typically 57.1mm, 5x112 for us A6'ers), then offset is next.

You have to be aware that your vehicle's offset has to be compatible with the offset of your aftermarket wheel so that there are no rubbing issues. Some wheels are flat/convex/concave-spoked, so clearing the calipers is important once you have decided on the wheel.

This is where spacers (with/without lip) come into play and where FrankA6's suggestions definitely merit consideration.

He changes wheels more often than some people change their underwear :) , so his experience will greatly help you if you decide to achieve different looks with a more aggressive stance.

With any new wheel, this is what I look for:

Design (Will the wheel look good if it were on my car?)
Rim Size (Will it fit in my wheel well without rubbing during full turns once I mount them with tires? (I'm running 255/40/17 with 17x8 Fat Fives for winter, 245/35/19 with 19x9.5 HR2's for summer and no rubbing issues))
Rubber (What tires will I be running with the wheels? Will I match the factory specified rolling diameter? (+/- 3% is considered ok))
Bore (Will I need to use hubcentric rings? (yes, if it's larger than 57.1mm))
Lug Pattern (Does it match my stock 5x112mm pattern or will I need a 5x100/112 adapter? (which would kill that wheel as an option for me))
Offset (My stock offset is +35, does this aftermarket wheel match it and clear my HP2 calipers without the need for a spacer? (I run 5mm H&R spacers with no lip and longer conical bolts with my 19" with no issues, stock wheels use ball lugs))
Balance the wheels w/ tires before mounting.
Four wheel alignment, if necessary after wheels have been mounted and you've driven a few miles to see how it rides and any issues are not attributable to any of the aforementioned.

Good luck with it.

[FrankA6]

i wasn't being mean or anything, maybe i just worded it wrong, my bad, but nice post....that should explain alot to everyone. and yeah i was referring to spacers with a protruding lip, i was just saying its hard to find spacers with outer lips 57.1 , but not very hard to find them with the back as 57.1 , anyways awesome post :)

oh and one more thing, this always helped me, everytime i go from wider summer wheels to more narrow winter wheels i get the alignment done, to me it seems to help with tire wear, oh and if you go really wide and low, like im about to, you should look into stern adj control arms, i ordered a set, and they should give me an extra 7-10K miles on my tires , maybe more :)

[chrisbostonusmc]

wow this has been a huge help. I have a set of 8mm H&R spacers sitting next to my rims
w/o the protuding lip. Should I still run the hubcentric ring?

[FrankA6]

it wont matter, the back of the wheels wont touch the hub anyways, oh and, i wouldn't recommend spacers without protruding lips.

[lodit]

wow this has been a huge help. I have a set of 8mm H&R spacers sitting next to my rims
w/o the protuding lip. Should I still run the hubcentric ring?

A hubcentric ring is for the inside of your aftermarket wheel to match your the wheel's bore diameter with that of your vehicle's brake hub.

A spacer is used to accommodate how far out you want to push your wheels from the hub.

The confusion arises because some spacers have a lip which acts as an extension of the center hub, but in no way should you consider this a substitute for a hubcentric ring unless it matches the bore measurement of the wheel.

Maybe this will help:

HUBCENTRIC RING

Looking at the front face of the rim, there's a round hole in the middle and some little ones around it for the lugs.

Now look at your vehicle brake hub (center of the brake assembly). In the middle is a round, protruding piece, and around it are the smaller holes for your lugs.

The middle hole in your wheel when mounted onto the hub will rotate around that protruding piece, which acts like an axis of rotation. The better (tighter) the fit between wheel and hub, the less chance for rotational vibration due to gaps. As tight as the lugs are to keep the wheel attached to the hub, over time, they will loosen because of vibrations, road conditions, thread wear, etc... Once this happens, if your wheel bore is not matched to your vehicle, the wheel will not rotate uniformly around the hub, but rather bounce because of the gap between them. This will cause uneven tread wire and vibrational issues at different speeds under different road conditions. The result could mean costly repairs and tire replacement, when otherwise solved by a simple hubcentric ring that typically costs less than $15 for a set of 4.

That protruding piece for our A6's typically is 57.1mm in diameter.

Therefore, in order for proper rotation, the hole in the middle of your wheel needs to measure almost exactly 57.1mm as well.

So, make sure to check that your aftermarket wheel bore is the same as your vehicles brake hub protrusion.

If it's larger, then you will need hubcentric rings.

SPACER

Let's assume we've gotten past the wheel bore issue and our aftermarket wheels meet the stock spec of 57.1mm for our A6. Now, we can look at whether or not we need spacers.

Check the stock offset of your vehicle. For my A6 it's +35mm. This means that I'd need to buy aftermarket wheels that match this +35mm offset in order to not require a spacer (additionally, the spokes must clear your calipers). Usually, aftermarket wheels are stamped somewhere with the offset, or just check with the dealer from whom you purchased your wheels.

Having the wheel's offset match your vehicle's stock offset does not guarantee a perfect fit. The design of your wheel face, whether it be flat, concave or convex must also clear your calipers during rotation.

So, in a perfect world, if your car's offset is +35 and your wheel is +35 and when mounted the wheel rotates uniformly without touching the calipers, no spacer is required.

If, however, your car's offset is +35 and your wheel is +40, you may need to purchase a spacer of at least 5mm in size to match your car with the wheel. Again, we're assuming your wheel face clears your calipers.

Here is where spacer size comes into play.

Remember the hub protrusion on your wheel? Well, the spacer fits between your hub and the wheel, which means it takes up space on the hub protrusion that would normally be used by your wheel. The larger the spacer, the less surface area the wheel has to use the hub protrusion as an axis of rotation. Choose a large enough spacer, and it completely pushes the wheel off the hub protrusion and leaves it rotating around nothing, which is bad as explained before.

Choose a small enough spacer to fit in between your vehicle hub and wheel such that your wheel can still rest and rotate around the hub protrusion as an axis, as well as clear your calipers, and that may work out without too much concern regarding suspension adjustments. Only after you ride on your new wheel setup for a few miles will you be able to determine how much of an adjustment (alignment) you need.

If you want to go wider (give your car a more aggressive stance by sticking the wheels out a little), then you may need to get a larger spacer with a protruding lip. I've seen these in spacer sizes as small as 8mm and go up from there. In recognition of your wheel no longer resting and rotating on the hub protrusion, these modified spacers are built with a protruding lip that acts like an extension of the axis from your hub about which your wheel can now rotate.

Remember that this lip must match the wheel bore to form a good fit. Unless your spacer is manufactured to have a hole matched to your vehicle hub and a protruding lip matched to your wheel bore, you must use the hubcentric rings to ensure uniform rotation.

Additionally, you will need longer bolts (conical or ball seat, depends on the lug holes in your wheels).

By no means is this all you need to consider when changing your wheel setup.

But hopefully, it helps you in recognizing the difference between a hubcentric ring, and a spacer.

Cheers

[FrankA6]

but if hes running a 8mm spacer, with no lip, its going to push the wheel away from the hub and a centric ring wont matter, because the wheels bore wont even touch the hub, and that wont be good, either way, use hubcentric rings without spacers, or run spacers with lip, that meets the wheels bore...heres what i have, this may help you understand. also with a 5mm spacer you may still catch some of the hubs lip, so yes use centric rings, but with 8mm im not sure you're going to touch the hub, i don't know i have never used a 8mm spacer, ive only used 5mm/10mm/and up. and with most 10mm they have the lip like the second picture down. its pretty easy to understand.



these are hubcentric spacers

the ones i use.


these are non-centric spacers


centric rings



if you don't use centric rings make sure that you're spacers have protruding lips that match the wheels bore 57.1 for A6 unless the spacer is small like 3-5mm

and going back to my first post, its really hard to find spacers with protruding lips that have 57.1 outer lip and back plate is 57.1

[chrisbostonusmc]

How long will it be safe to drive on do you think? I have to make a trip to Florida Tuesday.. can this wait a few weeks?

[lodit]

How long will it be safe to drive on do you think? I have to make a trip to Florida Tuesday.. can this wait a few weeks?

The point is: If only your lugs are keeping your wheel attached to your hub, you will eventually encounter damage. When and how bad is unknown. It could happen tomorrow, or maybe not for a month. But the risk is substantial.

If you're not going to drive the car, then no big deal.

And FrankA6, please reread my post regarding spacers. I do explain that a spacer pushing the wheel off the hub is bad. Perhaps you missed that.

I wish when I bought my first set of aftermarket rims I had known about this forum and had some detailed explanations of what to look for. Would have saved me a lot of money for new tires, bolts, and spacers.

Chris, roll the dice if you must. But I paid the price taking that chance before.

Never again.

[chrisbostonusmc]

Thanks Crazy thing is I ordered H & R spacers, and a company like that should know about this problem and make all their spacers with a protruding lip

[A62TURBO]

^^^ In order to get that lip, the spacer has to be a minimum of (I think) 15mm. You ordered 8mm right?

[chrisbostonusmc]

yeah, that all i needed and didnt want to poke

[A62TURBO]

So forget the spacers then, I threw a set of 20mm rear spacers on my 745Li and they have the lip which fits perfect.

[chrisbostonusmc]

So forget the spacers then, I threw a set of 20mm rear spacers on my 745Li and they have the lip which fits perfect.

yeah but they wont clear my brakes..the old owner of the rims ran 8mm spacers no problem on his s4..so maybe they will still sit

[A62TURBO]

I think you'll be fine, just make sure you torque the lugs while the wheel is in the air and not on the ground. You have the extended lugs?

[chrisbostonusmc]

yeah I do, by any chance do you know the tq setting for our cars and do you think that changes due to rim size?

[A62TURBO]

100 ft/lb is good for everyday use.

[chrisbostonusmc]

100 ft/lb is good for everyday use.

thanks

[lodit]

I believe the dealership specifies 75-80 lbs/ft torque for the stock wheels.

100 lbs/ft is a lot and usually recommended for your aftermarket wheels.

No real right or wrong as long as you fall within those parameters.

Cheers. :)

[A62TURBO]

^^^ The dealer (atleast my dealer) always uses the impact gun and tightens the shit out of the lugs, I have never seen a dealer use a torque wrench on the wheels.

[chrisbostonusmc]

wheels are the most important things to torque

[A62TURBO]

wheels are the most important things to torque

I agree 100% thats why I always torque mine accordingly.

[VMRWheels]

^^^ The dealer (atleast my dealer) always uses the impact gun and tightens the shit out of the lugs, I have never seen a dealer use a torque wrench on the wheels.

Most dealers over torque wheels. Many people have a hard time removing lug bolts afterwords because they are impacted on with over 100lbs of force. I usually do about 85ft lbs. Drive for 50 miles and check them 1 more time.

-Charles@VMRWheels
www.vmrwheels.com