AWE GT28r kit ... can it really make the 300hp/torque claimed ???

[QuattroRocket]

So I hit the Dynapack dyno this morning with my AWE GT28r kit and figured I would build a little suspense over the results. I will post the uncorrected results tomorrow ...

[Molotov]

umm, I really hope so, unless you forgot to make it WHP

[ray-ray]

was this the kit that was on my car? or did you buy it from an AWE dealer?

[PRVWing]

umm, I really hope so, unless you forgot to make it WHP

x2

[QuattroRocket]

So here are the results ...



221 hp and 238 ft/lb at the wheel so with a 25% commonly used drivetrain loss calculation thats 294 hp and 317 ft/lb

This was a pretty nice surprise to both me and my shop. We all silently thought we would see sub 210 numbers, even sub 200 was projected from some.

Needless to say I am REALLY happy with the results and cannot wait to see what improvements I see in the Spring when I get a custom equal length exhaust manifold made up. I hope to see a slightly quicker spool time on the turbo, a little improvement on the peak power numbers and a little more room under the curve above 5000 rpm.

The vag logs are coming shortly, which I havent seen yet so I am ancious to get some of the vag log gurus here to comment on the timing and boost results.

Way to go AWE !

[HIERLEVELZ]

Wait if you're assuming 25% DT loss then that should be 276chp. 1.25*221=276. Ok NO my math is fuked you're correct.

221/.75=294

[actlsub9]

Why did they wait until 3k to go WOT?

[mike-2ptzero]

22% is the normal driveline loss used and that would be for a normal dyno, the Dynopack reads at the hub not wheel so the % would be even less.

Even using 22% your 221whp comes out to 283. Pretty much normal for 220-225whp for a GT28r, thats right around what the PES and APR stage 3 make on pump gas with the same size turbo.


BTW, you posted that you were going to post a uncorrected results but the one you posted says "SAE" corrected.

[QuattroRocket]

22% is the normal driveline loss used and that would be for a normal dyno, the Dynopack reads at the hub not wheel so the % would be even less.

Even using 22% your 221whp comes out to 283. Pretty much normal for 220-225whp for a GT28r, thats right around what the PES and APR stage 3 make on pump gas with the same size turbo.


BTW, you posted that you were going to post a uncorrected results but the one you posted says "SAE" corrected.

Thanks for the info on the Dynapack, makes sense that without the wheels the loss would be lower.

The "uncorrected" thing was my bad, 1st time dyno noob !

[A4natomical]

check pm

[QuattroRocket]

Wait if you're assuming 25% DT loss then that should be 276chp. 1.25*221=276. Ok NO my math is fuked you're correct.

221/.75=294

Ummmm ... nope.

The math is 221/1-% or 221/(1-.25) which would be 294. You are not adding 25% to it you are factoring out a 25% loss.

[Roy munson]

Why did they wait until 3k to go WOT?

Thats just when the run was started, rpms are held at set start time the let go by the machine. Nice numbers

[A4TUNE]

Yep that is just about what my GT28R car made on a dyno dynamics machine. I have a dyno sheet that shows 233whp I believe. I had the detuned "conservative" file though, the same one you're using. the old software, the one that is not used anymore was closer to 250whp. I've ridden in the car with both files and the old file is completely awesome with the torque spike. 300hp is not bad at all though it's a great little turbo!

[QuattroRocket]

Yep that is just about what my GT28R car made on a dyno dynamics machine. I have a dyno sheet that shows 233whp I believe. I had the detuned "conservative" file though, the same one you're using. the old software, the one that is not used anymore was closer to 250whp. I've ridden in the car with both files and the old file is completely awesome with the torque spike. 300hp is not bad at all though it's a great little turbo!

So how does one get their mits on the "old file" ?

[[email protected]]

Why did they wait until 3k to go WOT?

The Dynapak can be setup to hold a set RPM before letting the car go WOT.

In this case the car is in 4th gear, the car revs up to 3000rpm and the pods will hold the rpms at 3000 for 2 seconds before releasing and letting the car do its pull.

That is why all of the pulls start at 3000rpm and ramp up from there.

[actlsub9]

The Dynapak can be setup to hold a set RPM before letting the car go WOT.

In this case the car is in 4th gear, the car revs up to 3000rpm and the pods will hold the rpms at 3000 for 2 seconds before releasing and letting the car do its pull.

That is why all of the pulls start at 3000rpm and ramp up from there.

Can they not start lower then 3000rpm on a dynapack? How could you dyno a K04 car that hits peak torque around 3000rpm?

[[email protected]]

The hold RPM can be set to any value.

This is just one feature of the Dynapack. The one I like best is its ability to lock in an RPM and it will not allow the car to surpass it. So lets say you are tuning the car and don't want it to go past 5000rpm.

You setup the Dynapack to do so and no matter what you do when operating the car the pods will add enough load to the tach needle will never pass 5000rpm.

[actlsub9]

The hold RPM can be set to any value

Which brings me back to my original question... why not start the run sooner on a car that peaks so early.

[A4TUNE]

So how does one get their mits on the "old file" ?

I don't think it's available to the public. My car was one of the first test cars to have the gt28r kit and it came with the old file. apparently the torque spike was too intense so awe detuned the file and then sold it with the kit.

you can try talking to someone at AWE about it but i don't think it is available.

[A4TUNE]

Which brings me back to my original question... why not start the run sooner on a car that peaks so early.

the turbo doesn't build boost until at least 3k rpms.

[[email protected]]

Which brings me back to my original question... why not start the run sooner on a car that peaks so early.

OK.. I understand your question now.

I'll pose the question to Bob and see what his reply is.

But does it really matter as the turbo doesn't fully spool until 4000rpm?

[HIERLEVELZ]

Ummmm ... nope.

The math is 221/1-% or 221/(1-.25) which would be 294. You are not adding 25% to it you are factoring out a 25% loss.

Umm I did say you were correct (reading is fundamental)

[Jet Jockey]

All my pulls on the Dynapak were started at 2000 RPM. They were also done in fourth gear.

[mike-2ptzero]

I am suprised the hp drops off so much after it peaks. It should only drop slightly, but I guess that could be the effects of the stock manifold flow restriction.

[Papachristou]

it spikes and drops really hard... that would be kind of disappointing

[Auditude2.0T]

My 2.0T puts down 220WHP on a K03 with bolt ons, i thought that 1.8T put down similar power.

[mike-2ptzero]

it spikes and drops really hard... that would be kind of disappointing

Also not very consistant on the 3 pulls. The pull with the 221hp reading has a odd looking spike, the tq graph also has a odd looking spike right around the same rpm. Almost like the boost shot up for some reason, that or the ESP or ABS kicked in.

[b6onboost]

Different dynos. He used a dynapack which is much more conservative than the dynojet you used. On a dynapack or dynodynamics your car would only put down about 190awhp. Your comparison is apples to oranges.

My 2.0T puts down 220WHP on a K03 with bolt ons, i thought that 1.8T put down similar power.

[[email protected]]

Also not very consistant on the 3 pulls. The pull with the 221hp reading has a odd looking spike, the tq graph also has a odd looking spike right around the same rpm. Almost like the boost shot up for some reason, that or the ESP or ABS kicked in.

The clutch might have slipped on the 3rd run.

[mike-2ptzero]

The clutch might have slipped on the 3rd run.

That could be the issue, but the problem is it happens after peak tq which is when you would expect the clutch to slip.

[illaudiill]

So....for AWD what is the correct vary for Drivetrain Loss...ive heard 22, 25, even 30. or does it vary by car?

[mike-2ptzero]

So....for AWD what is the correct vary for Drivetrain Loss...ive heard 22, 25, even 30. or does it vary by car?

Depends if it is manual or tip. Manual quattro is right around 22%. Now the reading for the dyno can vary. A dyno like the dynodynamic/dynomite add load so they can read a bit lower. Small roller Dynojet tend to read higher. So what you might be reading or hearing people talk about is the % they used for the dyno they were on.

[illaudiill]

ok thanx....didnt kno if there was a different between auto and manual

[GTMRS4]

Looks good man - when I did mine on 91 it was 273awhp and 280ftlbs of tq .... those numbers look good. I feel much better with my dynapack #s

[msr1]

Im really happy to see your car made the right horsepower, i hope mine makes the same atleast (im FWD) though when i drove it, felt slow.... (have thje same kit)
What drivetrain loss is mostly used on FWD?? 18%?

[ray-ray]

Hmm that is weird that it lost so much power at the higher RPMs. I can't remember if mine dropped off a little, or if it stayed the same through the powerband till 6-7k. I'll try to find my old dyno sheets since its been a while and im using a different computer.

My car was FWD and I know it did break over 300 hp. This dyno was done well over 2 years ago...lemme see if i can find it to compare.

[phsingl]

Interesting reading - I have the same kit and power does drop off north of 6.5K. Glad to see it "does what it says on the tin" though - never had mine near a dyno but might do in the spring for kicks.

Sadly the biggest problem I have is wanting a little more oomph from 2.5-3.5k - not sure that I can fix that other than small adjustments to make the turbo spin up a little earlier - like many before me I suspect a build and a bigger turbo is in the future (I know that won't fix my lower rpm issue but it won't matter if I have have another 100 horses in the upper range....)

[QuattroRocket]

My 2.0T puts down 220WHP on a K03 with bolt ons, i thought that 1.8T put down similar power.

An APR 07 2.0t ran the same dyno a couple days before me and hit numbers just a little lower than i did so they are close.

Interesting reading - I have the same kit and power does drop off north of 6.5K. Glad to see it "does what it says on the tin" though - never had mine near a dyno but might do in the spring for kicks.

Sadly the biggest problem I have is wanting a little more oomph from 2.5-3.5k - not sure that I can fix that other than small adjustments to make the turbo spin up a little earlier - like many before me I suspect a build and a bigger turbo is in the future (I know that won't fix my lower rpm issue but it won't matter if I have have another 100 horses in the upper range....)

I want a little mote down low too thats a big part of the reason why I am going in the New Year to have a custom equal length tubular manifold made up. Should see a quicker spool time for the turbo, more peak power and hopefully more room under the curve up top too ! Lemme know if you want me to see about getting a second one made up for ya ?

[phsingl]

I want a little mote down low too thats a big part of the reason why I am going in the New Year to have a custom equal length tubular manifold made up. Should see a quicker spool time for the turbo, more peak power and hopefully more room under the curve up top too ! Lemme know if you want me to see about getting a second one made up for ya ?

Curious as to what difference the changes make. Unfortunately I need a new clutch (Southbend OFE on order), winter tires and new rear brakes so it'll be the spring before my budget can stretch to more engine mods.
Keep me posted as to how much it costs and the differences...

[QuattroRocket]

Curious as to what difference the changes make. Unfortunately I need a new clutch (Southbend OFE on order), winter tires and new rear brakes so it'll be the spring before my budget can stretch to more engine mods.
Keep me posted as to how much it costs and the differences...

I am in a similiar boat, need to redo the front and rear bumpers due to poor parking decisions so the mani waits till spring. After much debate I think I am going with a 3.0 brake kit with ss lines and nice slotted & drilled rotors, the big brake kits seem much more for bling than for stopping power for a street car.

The manifold will likely be about $750 Canadian, if I get a few guys in together we might be able to bring that price down.

I am running the stage 4 Southbend clutch, cryo treated. Its performing absolutely great although I do almost zero launches with it so its been pretty pampered. The first 500 kms worried me but it loosened up a lot after that.