Idle timing too advanced. Probable causes?

[genecan]

Hi evereybody,

I spent the last few days scanning forums for examples and possible solutions of my problem, but did not find anything just like my case.

I had this finding since I bought the car back in January. The guy that I bought it from replaced the TB just before I came to take her home.

So far so good, but when I got my VAG-COM and ran it - no fault codes appered, but my ignition angle at idle was 18.5 - 22.5 degrees BTDC, reaching values at WOT of 40-50 even 60 degrees. No CEL, no weird noises from the engine bay, no other fault code ever appeared.

Somebody proposed it could be caused by the spark plugs. Changed them, but no improvement. I thought may be the TB alignment could be wrong, but there was not a simple fault code thrown, while I read guys with wrong alignment frequently receive CEL for inconsistent cam and engine speed readings.

I took the car to a local shop, but inspite of all machinery that was attached at certain moment to the car, in the end that guy came and told me nothing I did not know already. He proposed that the mechanism responsible for timing adjustment might be faulty, but recomended that I do nothing for the moment.

Anybody have a clue what devil is in my car?

[Nebone]

What are your block 20 values like. That is timing retard on each individual cylinder. At idle, it should be 0 on each.

[genecan]

All timing retard values at idle are 0 and also seem prety stable at these 0s when revving.

Rarely the 0 for cylinder 4 changes, but only for a blink.

[Poopie]

are you logging it? do a wot run in 3rd gear and see what your 020, and 003 blocks are. make sure you are logging and not just watching the values.

[genecan]

are you logging it? do a wot run in 3rd gear and see what your 020, and 003 blocks are. make sure you are logging and not just watching the values.

Yup, this helped a lot. Thanks for the advice.

The very record is below:

Tuesday,26,August,2008,12:14:52
4B0 906 018 K,,1.8L R4 5VT 0005,

,Group A:,'020,,,,Group B:,'003,,,,Group C:, Not Running
,,Cyl. 1 retardation,Cyl. 2 retardation,Cyl. 3 retardation,Cyl. 4 retardation,,Idling speed,Air mass drawn in,Throttle valve angle,Ignition angle,,,,,
,TIME,0-12 °CA,0-12 °CA,0-12 °CA,0-12 °CA,TIME,740-920 rpm,2.0-4.5 g/s,0.2-4.0 %,0-12° BTDC,TIME,,,,
Marker,STAMP, CF, CF, CF, CF,STAMP, /min, g/s, %, °BTDC,STAMP,,,,
,0.01,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.31,920,4.03,4.3,22.5,,,,,
,0.60,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.90,920,4.00,4.3,21.8,,,,,
,1.21,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,1.50,920,4.33,4.3,22.5,,,,,
,1.80,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.10,960,12.81,11.0,11.3,,,, ,
,2.41,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.71,1000,10.36,9.4,15.0,,,, ,
,3.01,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.30,1080,12.25,11.4,10.5,,, ,,
,3.60,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.90,1160,15.67,59.6,6.0,,,, ,
,4.20,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4.50,1280,18.17,65.1,6.8,,,, ,
,4.81,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,5.11,1400,20.22,72.9,7.5,,,, ,
,5.41,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,5.70,1520,22.47,82.0,8.3,,,, ,
,6.01,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,6.31,1640,24.44,91.0,9.8,,,, ,
,6.61,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,6.91,1760,27.28,100.0,10.5,, ,,,
,7.21,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,7.51,1880,30.78,100.0,9.8,,, ,,
,7.81,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,8.11,2040,33.19,100.0,9.8,,, ,,
,8.41,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,8.71,2160,37.03,100.0,10.5,, ,,,
,9.01,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,9.31,2320,41.08,100.0,11.3,, ,,,
,9.61,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,9.91,2480,45.50,100.0,13.5,, ,,,
,10.20,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,10.50,2640,52.14,100.0,13.5 ,,,,,
,10.81,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,11.09,2800,58.97,100.0,11.3 ,,,,,
,11.40,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,11.70,3000,65.17,100.0,12.0 ,,,,,
,12.00,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,12.30,3200,71.67,100.0,12.0 ,,,,,
,12.60,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,12.90,3360,78.06,100.0,12.0 ,,,,,
,13.20,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,13.50,3560,78.97,100.0,13.5 ,,,,,
,13.80,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,14.10,3760,83.44,100.0,13.5 ,,,,,
,14.40,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,14.70,3960,86.64,100.0,13.5 ,,,,,
,15.00,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,15.30,4120,91.89,100.0,13.5 ,,,,,
,15.60,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,15.90,4280,97.00,100.0,13.5 ,,,,,
,16.20,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,16.50,4480,101.00,100.0,13. 5,,,,,
,16.80,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,17.10,4640,105.17,100.0,15. 0,,,,,
,17.40,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,17.70,4840,108.28,100.0,15. 0,,,,,
,18.00,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,18.30,5000,111.14,100.0,15. 8,,,,,
,18.60,0.0,0.0,3.0,0.0,18.90,5160,112.44,100.0,13. 5,,,,,
,19.20,0.0,3.0,3.0,0.0,19.51,5320,117.44,100.0,13. 5,,,,,
,19.80,0.0,3.0,3.0,0.0,20.11,5480,119.08,100.0,17. 3,,,,,
,20.41,0.0,3.0,3.0,0.0,20.71,5600,120.56,100.0,12. 0,,,,,
,21.00,0.0,3.0,3.0,0.0,21.31,5720,121.06,100.0,14. 3,,,,,
,21.61,0.0,3.0,3.0,0.0,21.91,5880,124.47,100.0,18. 0,,,,,
,22.21,0.0,3.0,3.0,0.0,22.50,6000,125.56,100.0,18. 8,,,,,
,22.80,0.0,2.3,2.3,0.0,23.11,6120,125.33,100.0,16. 5,,,,,
,23.41,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,23.70,6120,16.44,10.6,12.8, ,,,,
,24.00,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,24.30,6000,17.64,11.4,12.8, ,,,,
,24.61,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,24.90,5920,16.22,10.6,12.8, ,,,,
,25.20,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,25.50,5800,16.00,10.6,11.3, ,,,,
,25.80,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,26.10,5680,15.03,10.2,10.5, ,,,,
,26.40,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,26.70,5520,15.22,10.2,9.0,, ,,,
,27.00,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,27.30,5480,15.19,9.8,9.0,,, ,,
,27.60,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,27.90,5360,13.89,9.8,8.3,,, ,,
,28.20,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,28.50,5280,13.92,9.4,7.5,,, ,,
,28.80,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,29.09,5200,13.75,9.4,6.8,,, ,,
,29.39,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,29.69,5120,13.11,9.4,6.0,,, ,,
,29.99,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,30.29,5080,13.22,9.4,5.3,,, ,,

[Poopie]

thats very hard to read. what you need to do is take a screen shot of the excel sheet and load it to a picture host so you can post the log in picture form.

[Nebone]

I see nothing wrong there. Does not pull more than 3 degrees of timing. MAF values are low tho. Are you chipped?

[genecan]

thats very hard to read. what you need to do is take a screen shot of the excel sheet and load it to a picture host so you can post the log in picture form.

Well the .xls file is all the same. You would see identical picture if I did what you advised. Probably I messed something logging?

[genecan]

I see nothing wrong there. Does not pull more than 3 degrees of timing. MAF values are low tho. Are you chipped?

What about these 22.5 degrees at 920rpm?

Actually I do not know if I am chiped. I bought the car in January and I was assured it was bone stock, but who knows for sure...

[Nebone]

Thats overall timing. If the computer is not pulling any timing then, which it is not, then you should be OK. Engine looks healthy. Is your Idle 920 rpm? Thats a tad high for stock.

[genecan]

Thats overall timing. If the computer is not pulling any timing then, which it is not, then you should be OK. Engine looks healthy. Is your Idle 920 rpm? Thats a tad high for stock.

Is there a way I could check timing per cilinder?

920rpm is the start of the 3rd gear pull, my idle is at 840rpm, but the overall timing is the same for both.

And thanks for your help

[Nebone]

Take the overall timing you see and subtract the individual cylinder retard value.

You write good English for a Bulgarian.

[mike-2ptzero]

What about these 22.5 degrees at 920rpm?

Actually I do not know if I am chiped. I bought the car in January and I was assured it was bone stock, but who knows for sure...

That is perfectly normal since there is no load.

[Nebone]

Yea, your engine is working good. No worries man.