The CWA100 upgraded supercharge coolant pump thread...everything CWA100...

[bhvrdr]

editing now to add pictures and formatting changes:



I have finally gotten around to writing on this topic after people have shown interest. I want to thank Tecomotive.com for making the specs of these pumps so readily available to us all. The data they provide is available from Pierburg but tecomotive graciously makes this information easy to find and decipher on their site. They also make wiring harnesses available. Also please see this thread for a ton of info about these pumps:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/411058-intercooler-pump-you-didn-t-know-about.html


What is the CWA100?

The stock supercharger coolant recirculation pump in our car is an extremely robust and powerful flowing pump, particularly at flowing against head pressure. The stock pump is a Pierburg CW50.

That said as people add additional heat exchangers, killer chillers, or additional boost tgey may want increased circulation.

Here are the specs of the stock Pierburg CWA50 and CWA100:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/df2b73ceefdb063c7ef8b60f33906100.jpg



As you can see the CWA100 almost doubles the flow of the CWA50. Looking at the technical documents, it also massively outflows the hobby style pumps such as the Varimax and Meziere style pumps when any head pressure is seen.


CWA100-2 versus CWA100-3

There are three different versions of the CWA100 pump but we will focus on the currently available versions, the CWA100-2 and the CWA100-3.

First it should be known that as far as the specifications suggests, there are no flow differences at all between these pumps. They should both work identically. The only difference appears to be in the following:

CWA 100-3 has slightly shorter water inlets and outlets.

The connectors on the CWA100-2 and CWA100-3 are different.

I have had both of these pumps.

Here is the connector/socket for the CWA100-2:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/5798debee13b72953c6c765cc63079d9.jpg

Here is the connector/socket of the CWA100-3:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/e401264ccf5245bed17afaf2876a5042.jpg




Availability of the CWA100 variants:

-The CWA100-2 is an old AMG pump that was used in a ton of Mercedes Benz supercharged applications. The Mercedes Benz part number is: A0005000486

You can source this part from a multitude of MB dealerships as a remanufactured item in the $300 to $350 range. FCP Euro has it currently for $342 and of course that is with a lifetime warranty. Tecomotive also has this available for 249Euro and you can buy the plug and play connector from them. They are a great site to support as well as they have been kind enough to publish most of the research you see here.

-The CWA100-3 is a new VAG pump that is used overseas in the Audi Q7 4M hybrid. The VAG part number is: 4N0965567

Interestingly you can find this pump from salvage cars on ebay for around $75. HOP ON THIS WHILE YOU CAN!




Harnesses for each of these pumps?

You can easily make a harness for each of these pumps.

Here are the part numbers needed for the CWA100-2

Connector to the CWA10-2 Pump: BMW part number: 12527549033 (available at ecstuning or fcp for under $5)
Connector to the stock harness: TE Connectivity p/n 1-1703494-1 (available on arrow.com for $1.69)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/c23a42ddc5c7799b8b6e27b36fbf55c0.jpg



Here are the part numbers needed for the CWA100-3

Connector to the CWA100-3 Pump: VAG part number: 4D0971993 (ebay for around $8)
Connector to the stock harness: TE Connectivity p/n 1-1703494-1 (available on arrow.com for $1.69)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/1fd7684e690632f84415b638a49feea6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/ad9b024e9faedd697a3beb99041062ac.jpg

You should be able to make either of these harness for around $10-$15 or less.

PIN Diagrams:

CWA50

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/896658e8cfc08211e48b6f885acfc7d5.jpg

CWA100-2


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/83d1209aaec08e93c49c77e3e69c1c53.jpg

CWA100-3

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/9c02a2148d6554b514f42b5f92ee0b09.jpg

[bajan01]

I have a CWA300 pump and harness from Tecomotive. If time allows, I’ll try to install this weekend on the SQ. [emoji2958]

[theweebabyseamus]

Id seen this and thought it was a good deal with the used units out there, but I don't fully understand from looking at the numbers how it doubles the flow rate? Seems like a mild increase.

[bhvrdr]

Id seen this and thought it was a good deal with the used units out there, but I don't fully understand from looking at the numbers how it doubles the flow rate? Seems like a mild increase.

The ratings are at different pressure. If you equalize it, the difference is much greater



I have a CWA300 pump and harness from Tecomotive. If time allows, I’ll try to install this weekend on the SQ. [emoji2958]

That would be awesome to see your before and after temps too!

[evil35r]

Mike you should do before and after iat numbers like you’re doing for the TBs... if you can get it same day and same starting iat would be a good comparison. I’ll probably do this now that it looks easy :) great work!

[bajan01]

That would be awesome to see your before and after temps too!

Working on it. I took some data last weekend so if the temp/DA is similar this weekend I should have some good data to compare. Go big or go home and I’m hoping that this will help with what I have coming next. [emoji2958]

[bhvrdr]

I'll update this with "after" performance numbers. I collected controlled condition baseline data but i've been waiting for mirror ambient conditions to collect the Post data

[evil35r]

Nice! Just ordered all I need for $139. You do this with bumper off or through wheelwell?

[bhvrdr]

wheel well. You can even do it with the wheel on but taking it off gives you some elbow room

[evil35r]

Perfect thanks man! If I can keep my iat below 60 that would be dope! On a 1/4 run now after sitting in the lanes I’m hitting 65-70 so 5C less and it’ll be money! Thanks again! If I knew it was that easy would of done it a long tome ago

[bhvrdr]

keep in mind we are still air to water heat exhangers. If you have no air flowing over the front hx then no matter how fast you pump water through it all you have is a metal heat sink sitting in front of your car. This will help reduce the rise in temps a tiny bit but its not a miracle :(

[evil35r]

Right agreed, but climb will be reduced as well overall 5C delta would make me happy. For instance now I have 20 delta at the track in the lanes etc 25. If I can change that at all I’d be happy. The meth helps to sa point but once too of third or in 4th that’s where most of the climb happens so a little help and I’ll be happy. Wish there was a way to keep or turn the fans on whenever I wanted...

[bhvrdr]

Right agreed, but climb will be reduced as well overall 5C delta would make me happy. For instance now I have 20 delta at the track in the lanes etc 25. If I can change that at all I’d be happy. The meth helps to sa point but once too of third or in 4th that’s where most of the climb happens so a little help and I’ll be happy. Wish there was a way to keep or turn the fans on whenever I wanted...

Aeroforce technology guage controls fans

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/830876-Aeroforce-Technology-Gauge-with-Podi

[Bartlett]

Is there a "napkin math" way to know that the faster rate of flow will not be counterproductive?


Right agreed, but climb will be reduced as well overall 5C delta would make me happy. For instance now I have 20 delta at the track in the lanes etc 25. If I can change that at all I’d be happy. The meth helps to sa point but once too of third or in 4th that’s where most of the climb happens so a little help and I’ll be happy. Wish there was a way to keep or turn the fans on whenever I wanted...

I'd imagine that shifting at peak power naturally has you shifting at like high 6k, so that should help offset temps. Temp increases seem exponential after high 5k RPMs, which is likely why Audi bled boost there.

No point in going to higher RPMs unless you end up avoiding 1 shift or more during a timed event.

[bhvrdr]

Is there a "napkin math" way to know that the faster rate of flow will not be counterproductive?



I'd imagine that shifting at peak power naturally has you shifting at like high 6k, so that should help offset temps. Temp increases seem exponential after high 5k RPMs, which is likely why Audi bled boost there.

No point in going to higher RPMs unless you end up avoiding 1 shift or more during a timed event.

These cars make power to redline.

Plus you have gear torque. The lower gear puts down more power so staying in gear is beneficial. That said logging differences between shifting at 6300rpm vs a 7400rpm file showed maybe a tenth difference.

[Bartlett]

These cars make power to redline.

Plus you have gear torque. The lower gear puts down more power so staying in gear is beneficial. That said logging differences between shifting at 6300rpm vs a 7400rpm file showed maybe a tenth difference.

I see. So then it's a matter of whether one persons's setup will benefit from the lower IATs @6300 vs @7400.

Any thoughts on my flow rate question? I know that for folks with a Merc kit, especially with an added reservoir, this pump should do great. But, for a dual-pass kit with a reservoir?

[evil35r]

I agree triple pass + this should help. Dual pass probably not as much. Can’t wsit to try it with the merc

[bhvrdr]

I see. So then it's a matter of whether one persons's setup will benefit from the lower IATs @6300 vs @7400.

Any thoughts on my flow rate question? I know that for folks with a Merc kit, especially with an added reservoir, this pump should do great. But, for a dual-pass kit with a reservoir?

Ill let you do the math but it seems to suggest that higher flow is a good thing as long as you dont cavitate...

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html

Mike

[evil35r]

Mike could you maybe take pics of or explain which wires to put in which pins or is it pretty straight forward?

[bhvrdr]

done

[evil35r]

Perfect! Ty

[Shane Horning]

Anyone have a link where I can find a used pump for under 200 bucks? Can't seem find one . PM me if you want.

[bajan01]

I see. So then it's a matter of whether one persons's setup will benefit from the lower IATs @6300 vs @7400.

Not quite, it’s more of a matter of how high you can go in rpm and not have timing pulled/boost bled because your IATs are too high. I took a log the other day starting around 2000rpm in 3rd and ran it through to the change to 5th (this is in my SQ, ZF8 trans). My IATs started at 33C and max was 57C. This was about 2 minutes after a 3rd gear run that started at 30C and maxed out at 53C. Ambient was 20C, redline is 7200rpm. I have seen logs that show much higher IATs than this and they are most certainly losing power. A good cooling system should keep your max IATs decent and also help in a quick recovery. After running out 3rd, my starting IATs were only a few degrees higher for my next run shortly after and this helps in such instances as back to back 1/4 mile runs. I will add that water/methanol injection helps quite a bit in reducing IATs. Having said that, cruising around on the highway my IATs are about 7-10C above ambient and at such times I’m not spraying water/methanol.

[bajan01]

..

[evil35r]

Agreed with the above and a lot of tuners you really don’t start to see timing pull till 60-65C ish. So if I can keep mine below 65C on a staged strip run I’ll be happy. On the street I rarely see above 55-60

[evil35r]

Some interesting charts I found

https://i.ibb.co/XpKzFqk/D964-FAAE-7-C0-B-46-E6-A33-A-61-B48603939-B.jpg (https://imgbb.com/) https://i.ibb.co/FXPnVpS/B7-DC78-D4-7811-4-B48-95-C7-7-F7-DDBC7-A53-B.jpg (https://ibb.co/KD1mwnM) https://i.ibb.co/hBYsPYN/68-CBACF5-40-B0-4-ACB-ADA5-6112-AE1-CFED9.jpg (https://ibb.co/GWH7KHD)

[TristanT14]

So this helps with IATs and its cheap/easy to do?[drool]

[bhvrdr]

So this helps with IATs and its cheap/easy to do?[drool]

Preliminary data says maybe a few degrees c in improvement in a 0-120mph sprint. For some every degree counts

[evil35r]

Mike can you also add what pins etc are needed. I got one of the connectors todays and they don’t come with pins. Would 1.5MM male and female pins work or do they need to be 1.2MM?

[bhvrdr]

Mike can you also add what pins etc are needed. I got one of the connectors todays and they don’t come with pins. Would 1.5MM male and female pins work or do they need to be 1.2MM?

Here ya go..

Cwa100-2 plug
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190411/26714cadaabe828a19a945fc262901ab.jpg

Stock female plug
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190411/6ca81421e7b938b09653da20b5ddffc8.jpg

[evil35r]

Stock harness plug
967067-2 Wire seals (Newark.com)
1718762-3 Pins (only ones I could find in stock) (Newark.com)

Cwa100-3 plug
000979141E Female pins and seals (amazon)

18-20 gauge wire estimate 8-10” harness length with 3 different wires of different colors

Not buying a crimp tool I’ll borrow one from work

[nick0188]

Anyone else have luck finding these for not a ridiculous price? I'm looking all over with no luck.

[evil35r]

Just got a barley used one off eBay for $120

[bajan01]

Fun times...going for a test run later tonight.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190415/ffbf30a9ace021b0b49ca20bfaec1831.jpg

https://www.tecomotive.com/en/index.html

[evil35r]

Heck yea! Let us know!

[tmoe]

Fun times...going for a test run later tonight.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190415/ffbf30a9ace021b0b49ca20bfaec1831.jpg

https://www.tecomotive.com/en/index.html

In for updates; also, tecomotive told me that they have not yet confirmed that PWM is working in the Audi B8.x 3.0 and the pump may just run at 100%. They believe it should be controlled by PWM but don't have evidence one way or the other, When you're testing can you see if logs indicate PWM? Thanks

[bajan01]

In for updates; also, tecomotive told me that they have not yet confirmed that PWM is working in the Audi B8.x 3.0 and the pump may just run at 100%. They believe it should be controlled by PWM but don't have evidence one way or the other, When you're testing can you see if logs indicate PWM? Thanks

Yeah I need to test and post here and get back with Tecomotive. I will say that so far it seems to be cooling equally well compared to my 194/57 setup. I am now running a 203/57 setup. I really wanted to install the CWA100 pump first and test to compare to the CWA50 pump. In the end I didn’t want to put the car to service mode twice so I did the pump and 203mm crank ring together. Since I am seeing similar IATs at cruising as well as on 3rd or 4th gear pulls I can conclude that the CWA100 pump is flowing and therefore cooling better than he CWA50. More to come...tomorrow.[emoji41]

[Shuga]

Will this work on all 3.0T’s?

[TruS4]

Yeah I need to test and post here and get back with Tecomotive. I will say that so far it seems to be cooling equally well compared to my 194/57 setup. I am now running a 203/57 setup. I really wanted to install the CWA100 pump first and test to compare to the CWA50 pump. In the end I didn’t want to put the car to service mode twice so I did the pump and 203mm crank ring together. Since I am seeing similar IATs at cruising as well as on 3rd or 4th gear pulls I can conclude that the CWA100 pump is flowing and therefore cooling better than he CWA50. More to come...tomorrow.[emoji41]

I wouldn't conclude better until you do WOT and watch recovery

[maty360414]

I need a CWA100-3 Cable anyone can ship today?

[Shuga]

So all 3.0T’s or?

[bajan01]

Over the weekend I logged some data...

At 66F (~19C) ambient I ran 3rd from about 2k through 4th and halfway through 5th (SQ5, ZF8 trans). IATs started at 32C and maxed out at 58.5C. This was after a similar pull a few minutes before that maxed out at 57.0C. The recovery time is very quick with the 57/203 setup and the CWA100 pump. I also logged all the PWM channels that showed percentage and the PWM is most certainly controlling the pump. I’m not sure that I need to do the pump mod to have the pump running at 100%, but I might just do it and gather some data anyway.

[tmoe]

Over the weekend I logged some data...

At 66F (~19C) ambient I ran 3rd from about 2k through 4th and halfway through 5th (SQ5, ZF8 trans). IATs started at 32C and maxed out at 58.5C. This was after a similar pull a few minutes before that maxed out at 57.0C. The recovery time is very quick with the 57/203 setup and the CWA100 pump. I also logged all the PWM channels that showed percentage and the PWM is most certainly controlling the pump. I’m not sure that I need to do the pump mod to have the pump running at 100%, but I might just do it and gather some data anyway.


Anymore more observations after running a couple days now?

[bajan01]

Anymore more observations after running a couple days now?

Highway cruising IATs are consistently 6-7C above ambient. I am going to try and get some current readings from the pump as it cycles...wish I did that with the CWA50 pump but too late now.

[maty360414]

I cruised today at 60mph ambient was 90F and iats are 14C over ambient with CWA-50 with the pump mod. Meaning that the CWA100 helped you with 7C over a CWA-50

[bajan01]

I cruised today at 60mph ambient was 90F and iats are 14C over ambient with CWA-50 with the pump mod. Meaning that the CWA100 helped you with 7C over a CWA-50

When I say “highway” I’m talking 80mph. At 60mph I’m probably closer to 10C over ambient at 85-90F. I’m also at 57/203 so I’m convinced that there is an advantage here.

[maty360414]

When I say “highway” I’m talking 80mph. At 60mph I’m probably closer to 10C over ambient at 85-90F. I’m also at 57/203 so I’m convinced that there is an advantage here.Mine probably was 70mph

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[tmoe]

When I say “highway” I’m talking 80mph. At 60mph I’m probably closer to 10C over ambient at 85-90F. I’m also at 57/203 so I’m convinced that there is an advantage here.

Anymore observations on the CWA100 vs CWA50?

[Nick Fury]

Any thoughts on this: https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-85916-902-065.aspx?year=2015&make=Mercedes-Benz&model=E63%2520AMG%2520S&parttype=Engine%2520Auxiliary%2520Water%2520Pump&origin=YMM

I realize the connector is a 2-pin (power/ground), but the data I'm seeing points to this being a replacement for the same Mercedes as the Pierburg, for 1/3 the cost.

[bhvrdr]

Any thoughts on this: https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-85916-902-065.aspx?year=2015&make=Mercedes-Benz&model=E63%2520AMG%2520S&parttype=Engine%2520Auxiliary%2520Water%2520Pump&origin=YMM

I realize the connector is a 2-pin (power/ground), but the data I'm seeing points to this being a replacement for the same Mercedes as the Pierburg, for 1/3 the cost.

I wouldn't use it without testing. Keep in mind even the cwa50 pierburg tends to outflow the majority of aftermarket pumps out there when you add head pressure. Before you do the dorman id at the very least run it on a test rig against your cwa50. The fact its a 2 pin says its not a replacement pump for those applications as well.

Mike

[bajan01]

I cruised today at 60mph ambient was 90F and iats are 14C over ambient with CWA-50 with the pump mod. Meaning that the CWA100 helped you with 7C over a CWA-50

I’ve seen IATs down to 5C above ambient but typically I can hold 7C above ambient at 75-80mph.

[waxxonMTL]

Sorry in advance for the lazyness,

I believe I've read that the seller (or a member here) was working on providing a plug-in adapter, is that available? I would rather have my shop install a plug-in play mod than having to do wiring mod.

Thanks!

[lclercaudia8]

hi guys where do you find the pin for the 3 pin connector ?
i order the 4 pin for the CWA100 i order the 3 pin connector but in the 3 pin i haven't pin inside :)
thx

[bhvrdr]

1718762-1

https://www.arrow.com/en/products/1718762-1/te-connectivity


967056-1

https://www.arrow.com/en/products/967056-1/te-connectivity

[Albertaholdings]

Stock harness plug
967067-2 Wire seals (Newark.com)
1718762-3 Pins (only ones I could find in stock) (Newark.com)

Cwa100-3 plug
000979141E Female pins and seals (amazon)

18-20 gauge wire estimate 8-10” harness length with 3 different wires of different colors

Not buying a crimp tool I’ll borrow one from workI'm looking for the cwa50 plug to plug into the stock harness on a S4. Anyone make that?

[bhvrdr]

I'm looking for the cwa50 plug to plug into the stock harness on a S4. Anyone make that?

Its in the original post

[tmoe]

Just ordered cwa100-3 with cwa50 to cwa100 harness from Tecomotive for $292 shipping to USA included, using 5/20/19 paypal usd/eur exchange rate. Thanks to all of the early testers for all the info.

More info available:
Tobias Mucke
[email protected]

[gsxr_wrx]

I ordered one too. I have been taking with them for the past week. Let me know how yours works out

[Shuga]

So once again this works for all 3.0T’s? Or just the S4s?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bajan01]

I wouldn't conclude better until you do WOT and watch recovery

0-130mph WOT pull...starting IAT was 33C and ending IAT was 59C, 20C ambient. IATs recovered quickly. 203/57, AMS hx, W/M, EPL ECU tune. Conclude what you want from my data...I’ll send the log file to anyone that wants to see it.


So once again this works for all 3.0T’s? Or just the S4s?


See above, I might have been the first to run the Tecomotive CWA100-3 kit on my SQ5. [emoji41]

[Shuga]

0-130mph WOT pull...starting IAT was 33C and ending IAT was 59C, 20C ambient. IATs recovered quickly. 203/57, AMS hx, W/M, EPL ECU tune. Conclude what you want from my data...I’ll send the log file to anyone that wants to see it.



See above, I might have been the first to run the Tecomotive CWA100-3 kit on my SQ5. [emoji41]

I’ll take that as a yes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gsxr_wrx]

Bajan01- was it plug and play? What did you use for harness?

[bajan01]

Bajan01- was it plug and play? What did you use for harness?

Tecomotive sells the harness...100% plug and play with the harness.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190522/8cee08402a962d1886db8fe4ced1f7df.jpg

[gsxr_wrx]

Sweet. That’s what I ordered from them. Just wanted to verify. Can’t wait until mine comes in. I’m running he APR divorced heat exchanger and think it’s getting little warm,not to mention I have P190D00 code-coolant pump for charge pressure

[Shane Horning]

What do you guys think about plumbing another cwa50 in ? Seems like 2 of the original pumps would do the same thing as 1 cwa100? I'm just thinking that could be a cheaper alternative as used cwa50 go for $50 vs. $150 - $250 for cwa100

[gsxr_wrx]

A new CWA50 goes for like $370
A new CWA100 with harness is $300
Give or take on these prices.The amount of work for two pumps compared to one also. Just my opinion

[Shane Horning]

A new CWA50 goes for like $370
A new CWA100 with harness is $300
Give or take on these prices.The amount of work for two pumps compared to one also. Just my opinionGot it. Well I got an extra cwa50 so I might try adding it

[waxxonMTL]

I know the answer could be '' just log and see'', but I haven't, so... would you guys think there is any benefit to doing this upgrade if I live up north where 10 months out of 12 is usually below 70*F and I only do ''spirited driving''?

Money is not the issue, its more like I'm not certain I (and most people living in the north) will benefit from this mod. Thought?

[gsxr_wrx]

Anyone know the procedure for swapping pumps? Bleeding process or just swap pumps and start it up?

[bhvrdr]

Anyone know the procedure for swapping pumps? Bleeding process or just swap pumps and start it up?

Always do a quick bleed when you create the potential for air in the system. Sc cores are my highest point so i crack those bleeders.

[gsxr_wrx]

So just put the hoses on for the new pump and open the SC bleeders? Anything else for the pump? Priming it? Sorry for questions ,don’t want mess up anything

[bhvrdr]

Swap the pumps out. You can pinch the hoses for the swap over. Probaly will just lose a couple ounces. Run the car with the pump on circulating fluid. As the fluid comes up to temp and engine gets warm crack the bleeders one at a time until you get steady fluid coming out not froth.

[gsxr_wrx]

I Appreciate the help

[bajan01]

I Appreciate the help

You will ultimately have some air stuck somewhere and the factory reservoir level will drop a bit over the following few days. Crack the bleeder screws a few times over the following few days. I have a few extra bleeder screws on hand as I have broken one before as they get brittle as they age.

[gsxr_wrx]

I have a divorced heat exchanger,does that make a difference with bleeding the system ?

[bajan01]

I have a divorced heat exchanger,does that make a difference with bleeding the system ?

No.

[Adamantium]

Are the dimensions of the 100 identical to the 50? Ie. Direct swap with no mechanical modifications?

[gsxr_wrx]

They should be. And you have to get the plug N Play harness. Mines on order, should be here in a week or two

[bhvrdr]

Yes the housings are identical. They both fit in the same bracket.

[bajan01]

Yes the housings are identical. They both fit in the same bracket.

Agreed...

CWA100-3 on left, factory CWA50 on right. [emoji41]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190527/894b552db815899fdb46d5191927902c.jpg

[gsxr_wrx]

I purchased and installed the CWA100 with the Tecomotive harness. The pump appears to be working,the hoses felt like fluid was moving through them and the pump was warm and the pump is silent,however I’m getting a P190C00 soft code. I am 100% sure all my wires are intact (did not do pump mod)

[JoedreddUK]

Can someone explain how this improves the cooling effect. As far as I can see you’re moving the hot water through the system quicker but surely it’s not getting enough contact time with the SC cooler/ incoming air or am I looking at it wrong???

[tmoe]

Simple cwa50 to cwa100-3 compare.

There is a couple of degree C decrease in IAT temp rise based on the conditions I tested in.

Tested with: Q5, 3.0 ZF 8HP trans, APR V4 100 octane OEM HE & AWE reservoir/divorced , PR 3.27. I used to run a PR 3.1 and stock 6300 rpm shift point and with that config my minimal setup actually worked really well: IAT 65C @85F with E25 no timing pull or bypass opening. When I changed from a 179 to 189 crank pulley w/E35 and used HP Tuners MVPI2 editor to change shift points to 7000 rpm, no surprise - my IAT's were no longer ok. This configuration should provide a good test case as my HE does not represent optimal cooling so if coolant flow is a limiting factor this should show it.

I logged using HP Tuners scanner tool, which provides a GUI to review data down to the .1 second across all channels logged, I don't use VCDS anymore.

Track Results
CWA50

Outside temp 74F DA 2148

0 mph IAT start 110F 43C

End
115 mph IAT end 166F 74C

Temp Rise in 31C

CWA100-3

Outside temp 77F DA 2572
0 mph IAT start 113F 45C

End
115 mph IAT end 72C

Temp Rise 27C or a 4C reduction in temp rise.

While these results are not earth shattering the CWA100 did reduce temp rise, my assumption is the impact "could" be larger with a Killer Chiller or Performance HE. I would also note, as has been previously reported, highway cruising temps also come down to 7 or so degree C over ambient, this is probably one of the best part of the pump, keeps the engine ready for those short term boost needs.

The Tecomotive kit is completely plug and play:
https://tecomotive.com/store/en/bundles/audi-cwa50-to-cwa100-3-adapter-kit

Hardest part of installing the kit was the hidden nut inside the pump mounting cage, that could be my 2013 Q design but that wasn't fun.

[bhvrdr]

Simple cwa50 to cwa100-3 compare.

There is a couple of degree C decrease in IAT temp rise based on the conditions I tested in.

Tested with: Q5, 3.0 ZF 8HP trans, APR V4 100 octane OEM HE & AWE reservoir/divorced , PR 3.27. I used to run a PR 3.1 and stock 6300 rpm shift point and with that config my minimal setup actually worked really well: IAT 65C @85F with E25 no timing pull or bypass opening. When I changed from a 179 to 189 crank pulley w/E35 and used HP Tuners MVPI2 editor to change shift points to 7000 rpm, no surprise - my IAT's were no longer ok. This configuration should provide a good test case as my HE does not represent optimal cooling so if coolant flow is a limiting factor this should show it.

I logged using HP Tuners scanner tool, which provides a GUI to review data down to the .1 second across all channels logged, I don't use VCDS anymore.

Track Results
CWA50

Outside temp 74F DA 2148

0 mph IAT start 110F 43C

End
115 mph IAT end 166F 74C

Temp Rise in 31C

CWA100-3

Outside temp 77F DA 2572
0 mph IAT start 113F 45C

End
115 mph IAT end 72C

Temp Rise 27C or a 4C reduction in temp rise.

While these results are not earth shattering the CWA100 did reduce temp rise, my assumption is the impact "could" be larger with a Killer Chiller or Performance HE. I would also note, as has been previously reported, highway cruising temps also come down to 7 or so degree C over ambient, this is probably one of the best part of the pump, keeps the engine ready for those short term boost needs.

The Tecomotive kit is completely plug and play:
https://tecomotive.com/store/en/bundles/audi-cwa50-to-cwa100-3-adapter-kit

Hardest part of installing the kit was the hidden nut inside the pump mounting cage, that could be my 2013 Q design but that wasn't fun.

Nice work! thats roughly what ive seen. I generally tell people its worth a couple degrees C but sometimes that couple degrees can make all the difference with the way timing reduction tables interact with IAT.

Mike

[JoedreddUK]

Simple cwa50 to cwa100-3 compare.

There is a couple of degree C decrease in IAT temp rise based on the conditions I tested in.

Tested with: Q5, 3.0 ZF 8HP trans, APR V4 100 octane OEM HE & AWE reservoir/divorced , PR 3.27. I used to run a PR 3.1 and stock 6300 rpm shift point and with that config my minimal setup actually worked really well: IAT 65C @85F with E25 no timing pull or bypass opening. When I changed from a 179 to 189 crank pulley w/E35 and used HP Tuners MVPI2 editor to change shift points to 7000 rpm, no surprise - my IAT's were no longer ok. This configuration should provide a good test case as my HE does not represent optimal cooling so if coolant flow is a limiting factor this should show it.

I logged using HP Tuners scanner tool, which provides a GUI to review data down to the .1 second across all channels logged, I don't use VCDS anymore.

Track Results
CWA50

Outside temp 74F DA 2148

0 mph IAT start 110F 43C

End
115 mph IAT end 166F 74C

Temp Rise in 31C

CWA100-3

Outside temp 77F DA 2572
0 mph IAT start 113F 45C

End
115 mph IAT end 72C

Temp Rise 27C or a 4C reduction in temp rise.

While these results are not earth shattering the CWA100 did reduce temp rise, my assumption is the impact "could" be larger with a Killer Chiller or Performance HE. I would also note, as has been previously reported, highway cruising temps also come down to 7 or so degree C over ambient, this is probably one of the best part of the pump, keeps the engine ready for those short term boost needs.

The Tecomotive kit is completely plug and play:
https://tecomotive.com/store/en/bundles/audi-cwa50-to-cwa100-3-adapter-kit

Hardest part of installing the kit was the hidden nut inside the pump mounting cage, that could be my 2013 Q design but that wasn't fun.

Interesting read and nice results. Is that with stock cooling?

[tmoe]

Interesting read and nice results. Is that with stock cooling?

Yes that's with the OEM HE, divorced and AWE reservoir.

[JoedreddUK]

Yes that's with the OEM HE, divorced and AWE reservoir.

Worth bearing in mind when I get my DP installed. Mind you it’s not very often the UK gets as hot as you guys in the US lol

[LilRobb]

Harnesses for each of these pumps?

You can easily make a harness for each of these pumps.

Here are the part numbers needed for the CWA100-2

Connector to the CWA10-2 Pump: BMW part number: 12527549033 (available at ecstuning or fcp for under $5)
Connector to the stock harness: TE Connectivity p/n 1-1703494-1 (available on arrow.com for $1.69)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/c23a42ddc5c7799b8b6e27b36fbf55c0.jpg




CWA100-2


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/83d1209aaec08e93c49c77e3e69c1c53.jpg



First of all THANKS for this writeup.

Now here I am with my super limited knowledge (but high eagerness) on wiring and stuff...

Sourced a Mercedes 100-2 pump already.
But now the wiring...

Ordered also the TE-connectivity plug, and what I think is the right terminals and waterplugs.
Any chance someone with more knowledge than me can confirm the part numbers for those?

Now the BMW plug - can't seem to find out what terminals I will need to put in there, assuming it isn't coming already with terminals and waterplugs?

Lastly - since I am coming from 3 wires, but gonna need 4 for the BMW plug - can I simply splice the ground wire into two strands and use the same ground on the 3 plug?

Any help is appreciated guys!

[TC_S4]

131036

What’s this part called & what’s for?

[bajan01]

131036

What’s this part called & what’s for?

It’s one of the two factory heat-exchangers (intercooler) on the supercharger loop. It usually stays in the loop when the front one is upgraded. [emoji41]

[TC_S4]

It’s one of the two factory heat-exchangers (intercooler) on the supercharger loop. It usually stays in the loop when the front one is upgraded. [emoji41]

I don’t recall seeing that on my B8.5.
The second factory Hx, is only on B8 model?

[bhvrdr]

I don’t recall seeing that on my B8.5.
The second factory Hx, is only on B8 model?

Correct.

[TC_S4]

Correct.

🤔So the b8 has better and bigger coolant capacity then the B8.5?

[bhvrdr]

[emoji848]So the b8 has better and bigger coolant capacity then the B8.5?

Check it...

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/745279-B8-to-B8-5-hybrid-OEM-heat-exchanger-upgrade

I ended up with triples on my last s5
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/d6fce496f9db336db35dc8e86cb46632.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/ef45c0de567f21a06ea83aaaa59e1cef.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/fd7889d4a8133bd821d17c0e26a60193.jpg

[TC_S4]

Check it...

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/745279-B8-to-B8-5-hybrid-OEM-heat-exchanger-upgrade

I ended up with triples on my last s5
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/d6fce496f9db336db35dc8e86cb46632.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/ef45c0de567f21a06ea83aaaa59e1cef.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190713/fd7889d4a8133bd821d17c0e26a60193.jpg

Wow, that’s crazy/awesome. Did, you do all 3 in one shot or you stack one at a time? It’s will be interesting to compare the IAT on each HX added.

[Bartlett]

If my IATs are fine except for during WOT, but they used to be fine during WOT, and I have gotten a code for water pump malfunction, is it safe to assume my pump is going bad? I have a CWA-100 on standby.

[LilRobb]

Can anyone here decipher the wiring diagram for the Mercedes pump?
How do I wire a 3 connector unit into 4 wires?

[gsxr_wrx]

What code are you throwing?
I had P190 and thought my pump going bad too. I swapped it to a CWA100 and everything is still the same

[Bartlett]

What code are you throwing?
I had P190 and thought my pump going bad too. I swapped it to a CWA100 and everything is still the same

Hmmm, looks like we have the same codes. I had:

8900 - Coolant Pump for Intercooler
P190D 00 [032] - Mechanical Malfunction
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

It popped up several times over the course of 2 weeks, but has yet to re-appear. It's been about 3 weeks code-free.

All I know is that my IATs get way too high, way too quickly. Same thing with my engine oil temp. This never used to happen.

So if it's not the pump, then I'll be confused. But, maybe it's the thermostat.

[gsxr_wrx]

My IAT’s were fine. But I still have the code. I never figured it out. From what I’ve read and been told,you usually get this code when the signal wire has been cut to run it at 100%

[byront8]

Just picked one of these up and will mate it to my Merc Racing HX - what’s the typical IAT drop with this setup? (If anyone else has the same).

This will be what I use for my cooling even at Throttle Body levels, as I really only use it for road use.


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[Bartlett]

My IAT’s were fine. But I still have the code. I never figured it out. From what I’ve read and been told,you usually get this code when the signal wire has been cut to run it at 100%

Hmm, didn't know that was the case. Mine definitely wasn't cut or tampered with, so it can't be that lol Perhaps there is some electrical issue though.



Also, how long does it take to swap the coolant pumps?

[gsxr_wrx]

Mine wasn’t cut either.

And about 2hrs

[Jflow23]

Hmmm, looks like we have the same codes. I had:

8900 - Coolant Pump for Intercooler
P190D 00 [032] - Mechanical Malfunction
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

It popped up several times over the course of 2 weeks, but has yet to re-appear. It's been about 3 weeks code-free.

All I know is that my IATs get way too high, way too quickly. Same thing with my engine oil temp. This never used to happen.

So if it's not the pump, then I'll be confused. But, maybe it's the thermostat.

Your code, P190D means your pump has failed or is blocked.

The pump mod code is:
7814 - Coolant Pump for Intercooler
P190C 00 [039] - No Signal

[Bartlett]

Mine wasn’t cut either.

And about 2hrs

Cool, that's about what I was hoping. Thanks!


Your code, P190D means your pump has failed or is blocked.

The pump mod code is:
7814 - Coolant Pump for Intercooler
P190C 00 [039] - No Signal

Ah, thanks for clarifying!

[nick0188]

So I've had this pump for a while, and do not have the pump mod (well it's on a switch, but currently and usually connected in the OEM way). I have this code:
7814 - Coolant Pump for Intercooler
P190C 00 [044] - No Signal

I can watch the frequency counter increase as the car sits an idles. Has anyone else had this code with this pump hooked up the OEM way? For what it's worth the pump is definitely working, seeing ~20-30F over ambient while cruising and the temps drop back down rapidly after a pull.

This is what I see looking at measuring values also:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190822/69b574169df143677aa6dbc8a96c01e8.jpg

[gsxr_wrx]

I have the exact same readings as you with the CWA-100. I believe it’s normal

[gsxr_wrx]

https://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt178/ballack790/FD1E79C3-3C2A-4C59-A680-E2CF814B20B5_zpsrtlrxnum.jpeg (http://s609.photobucket.com/user/ballack790/media/FD1E79C3-3C2A-4C59-A680-E2CF814B20B5_zpsrtlrxnum.jpeg.html)

[Waffles_s4]

Hi, I have a couple of questions

1) did anyone run the oem pump at full speed 100% of the time? How did the pump hold up?

2) what's so far the cheapest way to get the cwa100-3 or cwa100-2?

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[gsxr_wrx]

Didn’t run at 100%
Cheapest way is straight from the company in Germany

[Waffles_s4]

well Tecomotive is crazy to sell these at $250 EUROS! Thats like $270 USD... for a small pump.

[bhvrdr]

well Tecomotive is crazy to sell these at $250 EUROS! Thats like $270 USD... for a small pump.

Well you can always get it for 10% off msrp from ecstuning and then source the harness yourself...

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/water-pump/4n0965567/

:p


They do come up used every once in awhile on ebay for $100.

[Waffles_s4]

Wel thats why am asking if we can run the stock pump 100% all the time, because we can find those cheaper, and if they run 2-3 years at 100% duty cycle then it would make more sense

[LilRobb]

Wel thats why am asking if we can run the stock pump 100% all the time, because we can find those cheaper, and if they run 2-3 years at 100% duty cycle then it would make more sense

That's an F in thermodynamics...

Pumping longer continuously is not the same as pumping more volume, quicker.

[bhvrdr]

Wel thats why am asking if we can run the stock pump 100% all the time, because we can find those cheaper, and if they run 2-3 years at 100% duty cycle then it would make more sense

I run the cwa100 at 100%

[Phil.Lmbrt]

So I've had this pump for a while, and do not have the pump mod (well it's on a switch, but currently and usually connected in the OEM way). I have this code:
7814 - Coolant Pump for Intercooler
P190C 00 [044] - No Signal

I can watch the frequency counter increase as the car sits an idles. Has anyone else had this code with this pump hooked up the OEM way? For what it's worth the pump is definitely working, seeing ~20-30F over ambient while cruising and the temps drop back down rapidly after a pull.

This is what I see looking at measuring values also:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190822/69b574169df143677aa6dbc8a96c01e8.jpg

that code is from your switch for the pump mod.. 100% normal

[Waffles_s4]

I run the cwa100 at 100%

How long u been doing that for, since u installed the pump?

Do u think if I run the OEM pup 100% all the time it would last 2-3 years?

[Waffles_s4]

That's an F in thermodynamics...

Pumping longer continuously is not the same as pumping more volume, quicker.

lol. OEM pump actually runs at 50% of its max RPM, even under full boost or at redline. It only runs 100% if the ECU decides to run it under emergency mode, at which point it will send a signal to the pump to run 100% duty cycle. So if I pump twice as fast as the normal mode, I moving coolant at a much faster rate between the SC and the HX. Now I want my A back.

[bhvrdr]

How long u been doing that for, since u installed the pump?

Do u think if I run the OEM pup 100% all the time it would last 2-3 years?

Ive run the oem pump at 100% on three cars. Never had an issue but cant say if you will. The whole point of the cw100 though is that it provides more flow than the cw50.

Mike

[LilRobb]

lol. OEM pump actually runs at 50% of its max RPM, even under full boost or at redline. It only runs 100% if the ECU decides to run it under emergency mode, at which point it will send a signal to the pump to run 100% duty cycle. So if I pump twice as fast as the normal mode, I moving coolant at a much faster rate between the SC and the HX. Now I want my A back.

You missed my point - you're correct comparing a CWA50 to itself in emergency mode, a CWA100 in regular PWM mode still outflows the CWA50 in emergency mode.

[Waffles_s4]

Ive run the oem pump at 100% on three cars. Never had an issue but cant say if you will. The whole point of the cw100 though is that it provides more flow than the cw50.

Mike

I agree with you. Though I would think running it at 100% (5800 RPM) would still be a lot better than the current OEM rate of 2900 RPM. That alone should make a big difference. Plus the used stock pump is a lot cheaper used.

[Waffles_s4]

You missed my point - you're correct comparing a CWA50 to itself in emergency mode, a CWA100 in regular PWM mode still outflows the CWA50 in emergency mode.

Depends on what rate is considered normal for the CWA100 (by default). If its normal is 100% full speed, you are absolutely right. But say the normal was i dunno, 50%, then the stock pump at 100% could actually be ahead in terms of liters per hours pumped. They both have the same opening, which means the CWA100 consumes more power (in amps) and has a higher RPM rate. That higher RPM generates more pressure.

[nick0188]

that code is from your switch for the pump mod.. 100% normal

I run the switch in the on position 99% of the time (on as in the wire connected as it would be the OEM way, NOT the pump mod way).

So no, that’s not the case. Even with the switch on making the pump (supposedly) OEM controlled I can watch this fault counter increase.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shane Horning]

I have 2 cwa50 tied together and run both @ 100% when it's hot weather but have a switch to make it run like OEM

[Waffles_s4]

Stock pump max Rpm is 5800.
Swa100 is 7000 Rpm.

About 18% speed diff, but the swa can draw more power and move liquid faster, though not as much as everyone might think.

If my math is correct the CWA100 can pump 83ml per second more than the stock pump, which as u can imagine not a huge amount.

I still think the stock pump running at 100% is the best, cheapest option.

There might be a way to run it 100% via vagcom settings, so no cel or errors are thrown, or maybe adding a on/off switch under the hood.

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[bhvrdr]

Stock pump max Rpm is 5800.
Swa100 is 7000 Rpm.

About 18% speed diff, but the swa can draw more power and move liquid faster, though not as much as everyone might think.

If my math is correct the CWA100 can pump 83ml per second more than the stock pump, which as u can imagine not a huge amount.

I still think the stock pump running at 100% is the best, cheapest option.

There might be a way to run it 100% via vagcom settings, so no cel or errors are thrown, or maybe adding a on/off switch under the hood.

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Cwa100 has around 60% more flow than cwa50. You can figure it more precisely from their specs

[Shuga]

Stock pump max Rpm is 5800.
Swa100 is 7000 Rpm.

About 18% speed diff, but the swa can draw more power and move liquid faster, though not as much as everyone might think.

If my math is correct the CWA100 can pump 83ml per second more than the stock pump, which as u can imagine not a huge amount.

I still think the stock pump running at 100% is the best, cheapest option.

There might be a way to run it 100% via vagcom settings, so no cel or errors are thrown, or maybe adding a on/off switch under the hood.

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And running the stock pump at a 100% would still give us an increase?


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[Waffles_s4]

Cwa100 has around 60% more flow than cwa50. You can figure it more precisely from their specsMy math is based on their specs, where do u see 60% more flow?

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[Waffles_s4]

Based on specs above, it's 12.5% more, which happens to be close to the 18% difference in Rpm (5800 Rpm vs 7000 Rpm)

That 12.5% would equal about 83ml per second.

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[Waffles_s4]

And running the stock pump at a 100% would still give us an increase?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTwice as much flow as current rate

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[bhvrdr]

Based on specs above, it's 12.5% more, which happens to be close to the 18% difference in Rpm (5800 Rpm vs 7000 Rpm)

That 12.5% would equal about 83ml per second.

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Cwa50 fows 25l/min at .6bar. Cwa100 flies 40l/min at a higher head of .65bar


Twice as much flow as current rate

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The oem pump only maxes 50% duty cycle stock pwm? You sure?

[Waffles_s4]

Stock pump can flow max of 35l/min as the specs mention in the post. It's fair to take the max values of both pumps, don't u think?

Even 25l versus 40l at the same pressure, that amounts to 40% difference (60% faster) . But if we run the stock pump at 100% Rpm, then it's still twice as much flow as its current state.

I have yet to see the oem pump running at more than 50% actual duty cycle, which is ENG100479, no matter coolant temp, and no matter RPM.

I stand to be corrected for all the stats above.

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[bhvrdr]

Based on specs above, it's 12.5% more, which happens to be close to the 18% difference in Rpm (5800 Rpm vs 7000 Rpm)

That 12.5% would equal about 83ml per second.

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Twice as much flow as current rate

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)


Stock pump can flow max of 35l/min as the specs mention in the post. It's fair to take the max values of both pumps, don't u think?

Even 25l versus 40l at the same pressure, that amounts to 40% difference. But if we run the stock pump at 100% Rpm, then it's still twice as much flow as its current state.

I have yet to see the oem pump running at more than 50% actual duty cycle, which is ENG100479, no matter coolant temp, and no matter RPM.

I stand to be corrected for all the stats above.

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Its 40l at a higher head so probably more around 42 at the same head. 42 is 60% greater than 25l.

It looks like depending on head pressure its anywhere from 40% to 200% more flow...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190823/adcdc91ada7f80d97b0d8a2c94280bd1.jpg

[Waffles_s4]

Its 40l at a higher head so probably more around 42 at the same head. 42 is 60% greater than 25l.

It looks like depending on head pressure its anywhere from 40% to 200% more flow...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190823/adcdc91ada7f80d97b0d8a2c94280bd1.jpgI corrected the numbers, depends how u look at it, but yes, 60% faster, or 1.6 times faster, or 40% difference

My point is since the stock pump is only running at 50% duty, it's flowing currently half as much coolant as it potentially can.

Adding the Swa100, will probably run also at 50% of its speed (without cutting wires), or 3500 Rpm.

Running stock pump at 100% will be actually faster than plugging the Swa100 at 50%.

For best results, get the Swa100 and cut the wire, but am not sure if that's worth $300sh USD

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[bhvrdr]

Right on or like shane just grab another cw50 too.

[Waffles_s4]

Right on or like shane just grab another cw50 too.As a spare or connect it in series with current pump (both of them)...

Both of them is actually very interesting... Say u get the second one for $70 used. Then u run one at 100% (connect it directly to power source, without splitting any oem harness), the other oem original pump at 50% (normal mode, as is), and u will get more flow than a single Swa100 (running at 50%), u get double the reliability (2 pumps), and less than a third of the price of a single Swa100 :)

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[4.2 prototype]

As a spare or connect it in series with current pump (both of them)...

Both of them is actually very interesting... Say u get the second one for $70 used. Then u run one at 100% (connect it directly to power source, without splitting any oem harness), the other oem original pump at 50% (normal mode, as is), and u will get more flow than a single Swa100 (running at 50%), u get double the reliability (2 pumps), and less than a third of the price of a single Swa100 :)

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Push/Pull scenario? Maybe one on each side of the HX...

[Waffles_s4]

Push/Pull scenario? Maybe one on each side of the HX...

Gotta honestly see the coolant's normal flow on this engine, I dont have the full picture yet...

[bajan01]

Push/Pull scenario? Maybe one on each side of the HX...

AMS reservoir setup is that way...booster pump on the reservoir on one side of the hx and factory pump on the other side.

[4.2 prototype]

AMS reservoir setup is that way...booster pump on the reservoir on one side of the hx and factory pump on the other side.

Nice, I guess my only other concern would be the post pump heating the fluid back up a bit running at 100%?

[01northernS4]

Nice, I guess my only other concern would be the post pump heating the fluid back up a bit running at 100%?

As a spare or connect it in series with current pump (both of them)...

Both of them is actually very interesting... Say u get the second one for $70 used. Then u run one at 100% (connect it directly to power source, without splitting any oem harness), the other oem original pump at 50% (normal mode, as is), and u will get more flow than a single Swa100 (running at 50%), u get double the reliability (2 pumps), and less than a third of the price of a single Swa100 :)

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also, if the secondary 100% pump would fail does that mean it would obstruct the cooling circuit and stock pump and there would be no warning or code besides seeing your IAT shoot through the roof?

[Shane Horning]

I have both the cwa50 hooked beside so they both pull and push fluid to the same lines. I just put t's in before and after the original pump

[Waffles_s4]

Pics?

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[Waffles_s4]

also, if the secondary 100% pump would fail does that mean it would obstruct the cooling circuit and stock pump and there would be no warning or code besides seeing your IAT shoot through the roof?Dunno, am assuming here that if the pump fails fluid will still flow through it.

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[Waffles_s4]

also, if the secondary 100% pump would fail does that mean it would obstruct the cooling circuit and stock pump and there would be no warning or code besides seeing your IAT shoot through the roof?Dunno, am assuming here that if the pump fails fluid will still flow through it.

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[Waffles_s4]

Anyone figured how to run oem pump 100% without cutting wires from the harness?

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[Waffles_s4]

I was thinking if its possible to put electric tape around the connector for the pump, but i need to know which pin is it. Anyone has an Idea?

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[LilRobb]

I was thinking if its possible to put electric tape around the connector for the pump, but i need to know which pin is it. Anyone has an Idea?

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First post on this thread has the wiring diagrams.
It’s the PWM that carries the signal...

[Waffles_s4]

First post on this thread has the wiring diagrams.
It’s the PWM that carries the signal...Just noticed that. I might try to cover that pin with tape and see if we can run it 100% without cutting any wires.

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[Waffles_s4]

So on the stock pump, pwm is the middle pin. Trying to think of a way to enable/disable the pin as without cutting wires. Covering it with liquid electrical tape, which is not conductive, might be one way.

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[LilRobb]

So on the stock pump, pwm is the middle pin. Trying to think of a way to enable/disable the pin as without cutting wires. Covering it with liquid electrical tape, which is not conductive, might be one way.

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I think you’re overthinking this.
The “cut” could be in your DIY harness you can remove from the car at anytime and either replace with a fresh uncut one or remove altogether and go stock...


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[Waffles_s4]

Edit. I think I see what u mean, but the pins on the stock pump are in different order than the swa100-3. Will still work if I swap wires on the custom wire harness. But then u can just alter the pin of the stock connector like previously mentioned, no?

[krwalkman]

editing now to add pictures and formatting changes:



I have finally gotten around to writing on this topic after people have shown interest. I want to thank Tecomotive.com for making the specs of these pumps so readily available to us all. The data they provide is available from Pierburg but tecomotive graciously makes this information easy to find and decipher on their site. They also make wiring harnesses available. Also please see this thread for a ton of info about these pumps:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/411058-intercooler-pump-you-didn-t-know-about.html


What is the CWA100?

The stock supercharger coolant recirculation pump in our car is an extremely robust and powerful flowing pump, particularly at flowing against head pressure. The stock pump is a Pierburg CW50.

That said as people add additional heat exchangers, killer chillers, or additional boost tgey may want increased circulation.

Here are the specs of the stock Pierburg CWA50 and CWA100:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/df2b73ceefdb063c7ef8b60f33906100.jpg



As you can see the CWA100 almost doubles the flow of the CWA50. Looking at the technical documents, it also massively outflows the hobby style pumps such as the Varimax and Meziere style pumps when any head pressure is seen.


CWA100-2 versus CWA100-3

There are three different versions of the CWA100 pump but we will focus on the currently available versions, the CWA100-2 and the CWA100-3.

First it should be known that as far as the specifications suggests, there are no flow differences at all between these pumps. They should both work identically. The only difference appears to be in the following:

CWA 100-3 has slightly shorter water inlets and outlets.

The connectors on the CWA100-2 and CWA100-3 are different.

I have had both of these pumps.

Here is the connector/socket for the CWA100-2:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/5798debee13b72953c6c765cc63079d9.jpg

Here is the connector/socket of the CWA100-3:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/e401264ccf5245bed17afaf2876a5042.jpg




Availability of the CWA100 variants:

-The CWA100-2 is an old AMG pump that was used in a ton of Mercedes Benz supercharged applications. The Mercedes Benz part number is: A0005000486

You can source this part from a multitude of MB dealerships as a remanufactured item in the $300 to $350 range. FCP Euro has it currently for $342 and of course that is with a lifetime warranty. Tecomotive also has this available for 249Euro and you can buy the plug and play connector from them. They are a great site to support as well as they have been kind enough to publish most of the research you see here.

-The CWA100-3 is a new VAG pump that is used overseas in the Audi Q7 4M hybrid. The VAG part number is: 4N0965567

Interestingly you can find this pump from salvage cars on ebay for around $75. HOP ON THIS WHILE YOU CAN!




Harnesses for each of these pumps?

You can easily make a harness for each of these pumps.

Here are the part numbers needed for the CWA100-2

Connector to the CWA10-2 Pump: BMW part number: 12527549033 (available at ecstuning or fcp for under $5)
Connector to the stock harness: TE Connectivity p/n 1-1703494-1 (available on arrow.com for $1.69)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/c23a42ddc5c7799b8b6e27b36fbf55c0.jpg



Here are the part numbers needed for the CWA100-3

Connector to the CWA100-3 Pump: VAG part number: 4D0971993 (ebay for around $8)
Connector to the stock harness: TE Connectivity p/n 1-1703494-1 (available on arrow.com for $1.69)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/1fd7684e690632f84415b638a49feea6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/ad9b024e9faedd697a3beb99041062ac.jpg

You should be able to make either of these harness for around $10-$15 or less.

PIN Diagrams:

CWA50

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/896658e8cfc08211e48b6f885acfc7d5.jpg

CWA100-2


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/83d1209aaec08e93c49c77e3e69c1c53.jpg

CWA100-3

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/9c02a2148d6554b514f42b5f92ee0b09.jpg

Hey guys, in response to this, I have the connectors and the wire and such, but I don't see a diagram for the OEM side of the harness. I am curious which wire goes to which. Please forgive my ignorance, this is my first attempt at making a harness for anything. I have never used the weird little crimp terminals or anything as I have only done audio, just to give perspective.

I suppose I can figure it out by looking at the harness as it it exists in the car now. but just figured I'd ask if anyone has a diagram to simplify.

[Waffles_s4]

The oem is cwa50, 3 wires, the middle one is the pwm

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[Audibellybutton]

Does anyone know if a CWA400 would be compatible with a 3.0t? is that super overkill? how about a CWA300

[rs182]

Does anyone know if a CWA400 would be compatible with a 3.0t? is that super overkill? how about a CWA300

Neither will flow well with head pressure of intercooler circuit.

[Waffles_s4]

Neither will flow well with head pressure of intercooler circuit.

Elaborate

[ReDeViL]

is this cwa100 swap relevant for folks who have already upgraded to the AMS Alpha kit?

[bajan01]

is this cwa100 swap relevant for folks who have already upgraded to the AMS Alpha kit?

I’m running the CWA100 with the AMS Alpha/reservoir. I have data that shows that my IATs did not worsen after bumping up to a 203mm crank pulley from a 194mm crank pulley when I switched to the CWA100 at the same time. So this tells me that there is some benefit even though there is already a booster pump on the AMS reservoir. [emoji41]

[ReDeViL]

I’m running the CWA100 with the AMS Alpha/reservoir. I have data that shows that my IATs did not worsen after bumping up to a 203mm crank pulley from a 194mm crank pulley when I switched to the CWA100 at the same time. So this tells me that there is some benefit even though there is already a booster pump on the AMS reservoir. [emoji41]

perfect! [up]
Thanks for the prompt reply!

Did you have to modify the fittings/hoses in any way?
Any pics to share?

pardon the qns, as i'm not a hands on kinda guy, and i leave the stuff to my workshop/garage, though i do want to make sure theres not too much customization involved.

[bajan01]

perfect! [up]
Thanks for the prompt reply!

Did you have to modify the fittings/hoses in any way?
Any pics to share?
And

I purchased the pump and harness from:

http://tecomotive.com

Once you have the harness it’s plug and play as the outer housings of the CWA50 and CWA100 are identical.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190907/20da0b82cd1cedc1180707cfa8a84a23.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190907/3b71849add87ccac7a8f2e63ccb1da87.jpg

[ReDeViL]

I purchased the pump and harness from:

http://tecomotive.com

Once you have the harness it’s plug and play as the outer housings of the CWA50 and CWA100 are identical.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190907/20da0b82cd1cedc1180707cfa8a84a23.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190907/3b71849add87ccac7a8f2e63ccb1da87.jpgGreat, thanks!

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[JoeKayo]

- - - Updated - - -


Hmmm, looks like we have the same codes. I had:

8900 - Coolant Pump for Intercooler
P190D 00 [032] - Mechanical Malfunction
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

It popped up several times over the course of 2 weeks, but has yet to re-appear. It's been about 3 weeks code-free.

All I know is that my IATs get way too high, way too quickly. Same thing with my engine oil temp. This never used to happen.

So if it's not the pump, then I'll be confused. But, maybe it's the thermostat.

Having these exact issues
Coolant temps over 80c

Any solutions?

[bajan01]

- - - Updated - - -



Having these exact issues
Coolant temps over 80c

Any solutions?

Coolant temp or IAT? 80c (176F) is very high for IATs. That sounds like a lack of flow for sure so either a failing pump, blockage or a lot of air in the system. What pulley ratio and heat-exchanger?

[irish07]

Anyone doing this cwa100 upgrade want to sell their working cwa50?


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[bajan01]

Anyone doing this cwa100 upgrade want to sell their working cwa50?


$50 shipped to the continental US. About 55k miles on it.

[irish07]

$50 shipped to the continental US. About 55k miles on it.

Pm sent

[irish07]

$50 shipped to the continental US. About 55k miles on it.

Sorry brother, sent you another msg, been having issues with my pm’s not getting through. Can you send me your email


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[JoeKayo]

Email from Tobias:

Hello Joe,

That is why we sell the adapter kit as an experimental product.
It seems to work fine on some cars. And on others it does not.

The CWA pumps are speed controlled by a signal from the cars ECU.
Some vehicles seem to be compatible with the CWA100-3 but others seem to be not.
In other words: On some vehicles speed control works and on others the pump is always running at full speed or not at all.

Unfortunately, we are no Audi experts and can not say for which models that is the case or not.

It seems that at your car the pump is not running at all.
The only solution is to get the pump into its always running (full speed) mode.

This can be done by snipping the gray/red cable of the adapter harness.
With this the CWA100-3 will run at full speed as soon as it gets power. So it is not controlled by the cars ECU at all.

I am afraid that is the only solution right now.
Because right now there is simply no (bigger) direct replacement for the CWA50 pumps.
All the CWA100 pumps are electrically just a bit different.
The reason that is works on some cars is that some Audi ECU are just build in a way that they can handle the CWA100-3.
But some Audi ECU simply are not. That is very unfortunate.

I have a possible solution in mind. But we have no development time left for that right now.
Maybe in a few months. ... I hope...

If you have any more questions just let me know.

Kind Regards,
Tobias

- - -
Tecomotive

[bhvrdr]

Email from Tobias:

Hello Joe,

That is why we sell the adapter kit as an experimental product.
It seems to work fine on some cars. And on others it does not.

The CWA pumps are speed controlled by a signal from the cars ECU.
Some vehicles seem to be compatible with the CWA100-3 but others seem to be not.
In other words: On some vehicles speed control works and on others the pump is always running at full speed or not at all.

Unfortunately, we are no Audi experts and can not say for which models that is the case or not.

It seems that at your car the pump is not running at all.
The only solution is to get the pump into its always running (full speed) mode.

This can be done by snipping the gray/red cable of the adapter harness.
With this the CWA100-3 will run at full speed as soon as it gets power. So it is not controlled by the cars ECU at all.

I am afraid that is the only solution right now.
Because right now there is simply no (bigger) direct replacement for the CWA50 pumps.
All the CWA100 pumps are electrically just a bit different.
The reason that is works on some cars is that some Audi ECU are just build in a way that they can handle the CWA100-3.
But some Audi ECU simply are not. That is very unfortunate.

I have a possible solution in mind. But we have no development time left for that right now.
Maybe in a few months. ... I hope...

If you have any more questions just let me know.

Kind Regards,
Tobias

- - -
Tecomotive

Thanks for posting. I never wanted to mess with pwm signals. Run the cwa100 at 100%. No reason not to.

[WillS4]

Hi All, Looks like mine just went out at 60K. I have a KC on it and a small resevoir. Might be a stupid question, but would you guys drive a car with a 194/75 combo with the pump shot....no boosting...just while part come in?

Thx,

-Will

[bhvrdr]

Hi All, Looks like mine just went out at 60K. I have a KC on it and a small resevoir. Might be a stupid question, but would you guys drive a car with a 194/75 combo with the pump shot....no boosting...just while part come in?

Thx,

-Will

I personally would not. I had my pump run dry once and always monitor iat and thats what caught it. Saw 165f on the gauge and was like wtf. Id make sure you are at least monitoring iat at all times if you do that.

[Waffles_s4]

Anyone doing this cwa100 upgrade want to sell their working cwa50?


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x2

[WillS4]

thx..pump ordered.

[WillS4]

Decide to just drive for a week while pump comes in....logs look good outside of boost and engine temp and EGT's all fine...I'm heating up m supercharger but when it comes down to it, it's not even seeing temps anywhere that are as high as engine coolant temp and to overheat supercharger to the point where it damages something would seem to be impossible due to the protection circuits. If I ruin the supercharger it'll still be cheaper than renting a car for a couple weeks and of course give me a reason to throw a ported SC on it.

BTW...calling a local Audi...$850 for the part and $250 for labor. Quickly made the $300ish expense easier to swallow.

Officially the first problem on a car that has had zero issues since I got it while being tuned and modified in line with what most of ya'll are doing on here. Only other real problem is that while clutch is smooth engaging and would likely last, it has no prayer of holding the DP level of power. This problem has also made me realize what a high value the Killer Chiller has been...for $500 you pretty much have full or near full power all of the time....without it's hard to keep the timing and boost at the high power levels.

[ReDeViL]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190907/20da0b82cd1cedc1180707cfa8a84a23.jpg



Just another quick qns for the folks here.

To set the CWA100 at 100% mode, i just cut both the red and gray cables?

[bhvrdr]

Just another quick qns for the folks here.

To set the CWA100 at 100% mode, i just cut both the red and gray cables?

Gray only

[WillS4]

Hi all,

Just wanted to confirm you can definitely drive while pump is out. Computer easily compensates...I drove about 200 miles in 90+ Heat (no boosting) and engine temps remained normal, no knock, and not even a check engine light. Just like driving a Normally Aspirated 3.0. Looking forward to the boosted world again this weekend.

[bajan01]

Hi all,

Just wanted to confirm you can definitely drive while pump is out. Computer easily compensates...I drove about 200 miles in 90+ Heat (no boosting) and engine temps remained normal, no knock, and not even a check engine light. Just like driving a Normally Aspirated 3.0. Looking forward to the boosted world again this weekend.

I’d love to see a log of the IAT on that trip. [emoji102]

[zatta]

Throwing this code P190C, and that must be why my IAT’s are so high, pump might be unplugged but I haven’t checked to be sure.


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[zatta]

Throwing this code P190C, and that must be why my IAT’s are so high, pump might be unplugged but I haven’t checked to be sure.


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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191011/e5e2b1d2b714bee92e1ac108852a94c4.jpg

Is this proper orientation for wiring? Only way the harness fits but it doesn’t click in and this might be why I’m throwing code... can’t think of any other way to fix it



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[Antea]

I have both the cwa50 hooked beside so they both pull and push fluid to the same lines. I just put t's in before and after the original pump

Do you have pictures of your installation ?

And for the wire, what did you do ?

I think that working with 2 cwa50 is the best solution !

[blubaru]

so for the B8.5 is it hit or miss whether PWM will work on the CWA100-3?

[bhvrdr]

Dont bother with pwm. Run the pumps at 100%

[Moogas1]

My Varimax looks like it died after I added extra capacity to the charge cooling system and installed my KC. Ordered and received the CWA100 from Tecomotive and will be installing it when time allows me. Can we get a sample rate out there with years of vehicles and if the pump mod had to be performed or if the PWM worked. When I install mine I’m setting up to run 100% but I’m curious. I’ve heard that earlier year B8’s seem to be able to plug and play.


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[cachalote]

Can someone confirm that CWA100-3 works correctly with pwm and no trouble codes on B8

Enviado desde mi CLT-L09 mediante Tapatalk

[avantagg]

Can someone confirm that CWA100-3 works correctly with pwm and no trouble codes on B8

Enviado desde mi CLT-L09 mediante Tapatalk

Curious as well.

[Moogas1]

Mine worked with the PWM. I did get a a code when I run a scan with VCDS but pump works. You’ll get same code if you do the pump mod. Next step, I’ll be performing the pump mod in the spring. Note that the manufacturer states that it’ll work with some vehicles and not with others. So, if pump doesn’t run once plugged in to the oem harness, clip the designated wire (grey) if I’m not mistaken. Just make sure you use good electrical tape to seal the ends.

Read the posts in the rest of the thread, above from others on the this topic it’ll be very informative [emoji6]

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[ProSkier]

Simple cwa50 to cwa100-3 compare.

There is a couple of degree C decrease in IAT temp rise based on the conditions I tested in.

Tested with: Q5, 3.0 ZF 8HP trans, APR V4 100 octane OEM HE & AWE reservoir/divorced , PR 3.27. I used to run a PR 3.1 and stock 6300 rpm shift point and with that config my minimal setup actually worked really well: IAT 65C @85F with E25 no timing pull or bypass opening. When I changed from a 179 to 189 crank pulley w/E35 and used HP Tuners MVPI2 editor to change shift points to 7000 rpm, no surprise - my IAT's were no longer ok. This configuration should provide a good test case as my HE does not represent optimal cooling so if coolant flow is a limiting factor this should show it.

I logged using HP Tuners scanner tool, which provides a GUI to review data down to the .1 second across all channels logged, I don't use VCDS anymore.

Track Results
CWA50

Outside temp 74F DA 2148

0 mph IAT start 110F 43C

End
115 mph IAT end 166F 74C

Temp Rise in 31C

CWA100-3

Outside temp 77F DA 2572
0 mph IAT start 113F 45C

End
115 mph IAT end 72C

Temp Rise 27C or a 4C reduction in temp rise.

While these results are not earth shattering the CWA100 did reduce temp rise, my assumption is the impact "could" be larger with a Killer Chiller or Performance HE. I would also note, as has been previously reported, highway cruising temps also come down to 7 or so degree C over ambient, this is probably one of the best part of the pump, keeps the engine ready for those short term boost needs.

The Tecomotive kit is completely plug and play:
https://tecomotive.com/store/en/bundles/audi-cwa50-to-cwa100-3-adapter-kit

Hardest part of installing the kit was the hidden nut inside the pump mounting cage, that could be my 2013 Q design but that wasn't fun.

Was the CWA50 PWM controlled for your test or was it running all the time? And how about for the CWA100-3? Thank you for sharing your data.

[01northernS4]

Was the CWA50 PWM controlled for your test or was it running all the time? And how about for the CWA100-3? Thank you for sharing your data.

+1, great question, I'd love to know as well

[Ramon959]

Can anyone advise what max voltage the pump is receiving? Is it regulated 12v or is it B+? Just thinking that you could direct power from battery and get a speed increase that way or even run off a 16v battery if you were at the track.
The problem with all the graphs in previous posts is they don’t reference nominal pump voltage - just flow and pressure, or what the effect of higher voltage would be.

[Shane Horning]

Can anyone advise what max voltage the pump is receiving? Is it regulated 12v or is it B+? Just thinking that you could direct power from battery and get a speed increase that way or even run off a 16v battery if you were at the track.
The problem with all the graphs in previous posts is they don’t reference nominal pump voltage - just flow and pressure, or what the effect of higher voltage would be.Not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure the pump always gets 12 volts and it uses a third wire to control speed via plm

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[JoeAWD]

Check the spec sheet:

Specifications:
• Name: "Pierburg CWA100-3"
• Operation voltage: 8-16 volts
• Weight: approx. 1.0 kg
• Current consumption: 8.5A max. / (approx. 0.2mA in standby mode)
• Nominal diff. pressure: ≥ 0.75 bar *
• Flow rate: approx. 30-35 l/min @ 0.75bar / 40-45 l/min @ 0.50bar
• Speed: approx. 7000 rpm
• Temperature range: -40°C – 110°C (water) / -40°C – 120°C (ambient)
• Protection: IP 67 + IP 69 K
• Inlet / outlet nozzle removable / Four possible positions
• Part numbers: Pierburg: 7.04934.54.0 // VAG: 4N0965567

[Ramon959]

Current and flow rate are both voltage dependant, unless it is internally regulated - probable due to not specifying either current or or flow rate at X volts. So it seems I’ve answered my own question.
However, internal regulation means that the pump will still have a run voltage, and may still be beneficial to bypass that and go direct to the motor to increase the speed.

[Albertaholdings]

Current and flow rate are both voltage dependant, unless it is internally regulated - probable due to not specifying either current or or flow rate at X volts. So it seems I’ve answered my own question.
However, internal regulation means that the pump will still have a run voltage, and may still be beneficial to bypass that and go direct to the motor to increase the speed.It's a brushless motor with my internal controller that runs off a PWM signal

[SPho]

Emailed Tecomotive, and they told me the CWA100-2 does not work with our cars only the CWA100-3.

OP states otherwise.

Anybody got the CWA100-2 to work on their car?



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[avantagg]

Can anyone confirm the CWA100-3 works with PWM on a 2012 ECU? Sounds hit or miss, but maybe that was on the CWA100-2?

[SPho]

Can anyone confirm the CWA100-3 works with PWM on a 2012 ECU? Sounds hit or miss, but maybe that was on the CWA100-2?

This part is out of stock world wide. Won’t be in production soon because of Covid.


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[sr20det]

This part is out of stock world wide. Won’t be in production soon because of Covid.


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I just placed an order with tecomotive, he said he'd have more pumps in stock this week.... we'll see

[avantagg]

This part is out of stock world wide. Won’t be in production soon because of Covid.


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Gotcha, but can anyone confirm It works with PWM on a 2012?

[sr20det]

I just placed an order with tecomotive, he said he'd have more pumps in stock this week.... we'll see

188462

Got my CWA100 from Tobias at tecomotive today. They’re back in stock



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[Albertaholdings]

Changed it out back of my house through the hole next to the fog light... Working good. 188635188636

[MercRacing]

I have these in stock now in the US. With harness for Audi Cars. :)
https://mercracing.net/shop/peirburg-cwa100-3-coolant-pump/

[RendyR]

The website does not indicate that the harness is included. Help?

[Fresh.S4]

I have these in stock now in the US. With harness for Audi Cars. :)
https://mercracing.net/shop/peirburg-cwa100-3-coolant-pump/

oooh snap! look at you with the new page layout. congrats sir

jose ftw

[TC_S4]

I have these in stock now in the US. With harness for Audi Cars. :)
https://mercracing.net/shop/peirburg-cwa100-3-coolant-pump/

Is your CWA-100-3 come with all harness so I can plug and play on my S4 2013 or do I have to make any mods to make it fit?

[ANMS4]

Does this include the harness for my 2014 A6?

[Shuga]

I have these in stock now in the US. With harness for Audi Cars. :)
https://mercracing.net/shop/peirburg-cwa100-3-coolant-pump/

Comes all set up for plug in & play for my 12 A6?


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[Bartlett]

Anyone with a B8 able to get the ECU to communicate with this pump?

[krwalkman]

Quick Question here for everyone, is there a fuse or relay for this pump? I got my CWA100-2 installed and it simply won't run.

Based on the diagram posted in here I have everything wired correctly. At some point one of the wires came out and it gave me a fault, so I took the wiring harness out and soldered the wires into the terminals. Now, no faults, but it does not turn on at all. My Car is heat soaked essentially immediately after driving and I'd assume that is the issue.

Any quick help would be greatly appreciated, I might just throw the OEM pump back on if I cannot figure it out.

[dragrace8]

Quick Question here for everyone, is there a fuse or relay for this pump? I got my CWA100-2 installed and it simply won't run.

Based on the diagram posted in here I have everything wired correctly. At some point one of the wires came out and it gave me a fault, so I took the wiring harness out and soldered the wires into the terminals. Now, no faults, but it does not turn on at all. My Car is heat soaked essentially immediately after driving and I'd assume that is the issue.

Any quick help would be greatly appreciated, I might just throw the OEM pump back on if I cannot figure it out.

Take a look at post #196. Maybe IM them directly?

[MGZ]

Quick Question here for everyone, is there a fuse or relay for this pump? I got my CWA100-2 installed and it simply won't run.

Based on the diagram posted in here I have everything wired correctly. At some point one of the wires came out and it gave me a fault, so I took the wiring harness out and soldered the wires into the terminals. Now, no faults, but it does not turn on at all. My Car is heat soaked essentially immediately after driving and I'd assume that is the issue.

Any quick help would be greatly appreciated, I might just throw the OEM pump back on if I cannot figure it out.ECU Fuse Panel, Fuse 16.

You can thank me later I had this a long time agohttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200903/dd04d4c9e0bba8fb0a3273f4bf308f1f.jpg

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[krwalkman]

ECU Fuse Panel, Fuse 16.

You can thank me later I had this a long time agohttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200903/dd04d4c9e0bba8fb0a3273f4bf308f1f.jpg

Sent from my HD1900 using TapatalkMy hero!

So is that below the ECU?
See the picture please.195109

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[MGZ]

My hero!

So is that below the ECU?
See the picture please.195109

Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Correct, it's a blue 15 fuse. Fuse 16 on diagram

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[krwalkman]

Well crap, all the fuses are still good.

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[krwalkman]

Okay. This might be a dumb question, but will the harness work if I just skip the PWM wire all together? A lot of people cut it anyways, which I was planning on doing. But I figure just leave it out, same effect right?

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[MGZ]

Okay. This might be a dumb question, but will the harness work if I just skip the PWM wire all together? A lot of people cut it anyways, which I was planning on doing. But I figure just leave it out, same effect right?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)You can skip the adapter and do wire to wire

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[blubaru]

I did the pump upgrade in hopes of lowering my IAT, still having issues. Had
my car properly diagnosed and the tech indicated my pump is barely flowing and also shutting down a lot (maybe overheating) and recommends putting stock pump back in. Pretty disappointed, anyone have similar issues?

[SILVERBACK004]

I did the pump upgrade in hopes of lowering my IAT, still having issues. Had
my car properly diagnosed and the tech indicated my pump is barely flowing and also shutting down a lot (maybe overheating) and recommends putting stock pump back in. Pretty disappointed, anyone have similar issues?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had the same issue and just replaced it with the stock pump. I bought mine from Merc Racing and sent it back. I think i had a defected pump.

[RoofRails]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had the same issue and just replaced it with the stock pump. I bought mine from Merc Racing and sent it back. I think i had a defected pump.More than likely the pump was fine and the harness was pinned out wrong. I had mine installed (purchased from Merc) 2 weekends ago and went for a test drive. 60F ambiant and IAT was 140F and climbing and I wasn't even on boost. Went back to the shop and the mechanic checked voltage and I pulled up the pin out drawings on the Technomotive site and we determined it was pinned wrong (power and ground). We repinned it and it fired right up. I sent Jose a message about this to get it corrected ASAP and he acknowledged he was working on it.

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[RoofRails]

I did the pump upgrade in hopes of lowering my IAT, still having issues. Had
my car properly diagnosed and the tech indicated my pump is barely flowing and also shutting down a lot (maybe overheating) and recommends putting stock pump back in. Pretty disappointed, anyone have similar issues?Who did you buy the pump from and did you cut the signal cable?

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[voshmag]

Bought pump from Merc (he was very responsive and helpful) and was having same issue as a few of you. Pump would not come on.

Repinned adapter harness correctly then pump would come on but poor flow and High IAT. Pump was mega quiet and could only tell it was on by feeling pump. Also getting signal error in VCDS

Cut signal CABLE and much improved. You can hear the pump working now and seems right. Of course soft error in VCDS IS still there.

My take-away. Some cars/tunes are able to control pump by signal cable and some cant.
If yours can't only option is to verify cable pinning and then cut the signal cable putting it in 100% duty. This really is not an issue for me because I bought the cwa100 for flow and when its not in full duty it is only marginally more flow.

Most likely going to track tonight, I will log temps if I do.200606

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[Trevorshackelfo]

To all CREC 3.0 motor folks looking into doing this mod. I originally depinned the middle wire (Yellow) and was having a similar issue to other folks in this thread (Felt the pump running slowly most of the time, cycling on and off/etc) Clearly the pump was running on PWM voltage and not straight 12v. I then multi metered the wires and found the yellow wire to be the straight 12v wire.

This is a-typical to all the info I have seen on the forums until I took a look at the Self Study #624, apparently, CREC has a different pump supplier (Saleri) and has a different pin assignment https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhF9-B6UmgMuk95yj-DZZ6MnBSCPvg?e=pyxV18
217318

Yellow =12v
Red = PWM
Brown = Ground

[ReDeViL]

To all CREC 3.0 motor folks looking into doing this mod. I originally depinned the middle wire (Yellow) and was having a similar issue to other folks in this thread (Felt the pump running slowly most of the time, cycling on and off/etc) Clearly the pump was running on PWM voltage and not straight 12v. I then multi metered the wires and found the yellow wire to be the straight 12v wire.

This is a-typical to all the info I have seen on the forums until I took a look at the Self Study #624, apparently, CREC has a different pump supplier (Saleri) and has a different pin assignment https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhF9-B6UmgMuk95yj-DZZ6MnBSCPvg?e=pyxV18
217318

Yellow =12v
Red = PWM
Brown = Ground

is there any way to determine if the pump is running "properly", you mentioned it running slowly, on/off?

got mine from tecomotive and curious about how its running.

[djn876]

is there any way to determine if the pump is running "properly", you mentioned it running slowly, on/off?

got mine from tecomotive and curious about how its running.You should be able to hear/feel it, run it with VCDS and it will go through various speeds, otherwise you need to compare the pump speed to the commanded PWM signal to know if it should be running faster/slower, which is doable but more of a pain.

If you aren't having IAT problems it's fine. Even in cold winter temps it still needs to run hard to keep temps down.

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[krwalkman]

Since we're on the subject of the pump running slowly, can anyone tell me just by feel of the hose how hard it should be pumping at 100%? I did the pump mod and I Can squeeze the hose at the elbow almost to flat before I feel any flow. Maybe I have a similar issue with low voltage meaning incorrect Pins?

[Shane Horning]

Since we're on the subject of the pump running slowly, can anyone tell me just by feel of the hose how hard it should be pumping at 100%? I did the pump mod and I Can squeeze the hose at the elbow almost to flat before I feel any flow. Maybe I have a similar issue with low voltage meaning incorrect Pins?Not sure if you are running the Cwa 50 or 100 but I'm running cwa 50 and with pump mod you don't have to squeeze the hose much at all to feel a lot of pressure

[krwalkman]

Hey Shane! I've got the CWA 100-2. I must have pinned it wrong then. I followed the diagrams and it gets some flow for sure, but not enough to generate realistically any real pressure in the hose. I can essentially pinch it closed.

[Trevorshackelfo]

When you get it right youll be able to hear it moving water much more than if you have it running on the PWM wire, which probably doesnt get anywhere near 12v, maybe 5v max.

Also another confirmation if you are going for the "100% on mod" is if you let it idle and its running on the PWM wire(red for CREC) your iats will keep climbing, after 5 minutes or so my iat where climbing above 150 F. And took 10-15 minutes on the freeway to cool down to like 110 F.

When you get it right, it will climb much slower at idle and on the freeway it drops like a rock. I can spike it to 135 F after a pull and within a minute or less at freeway speeds im back down near 90 F....this is in 65 f weather.



2017 A6 Prestige 3.0 Moonlight Blue Metallic/Nougat Brown Interior/Walnut Brown Trim/ZF8/20" Factory wheels/Sport Suspension/APR Stage 2 Single Pulley/IE Intake/RSNav S3/VAGed up - San Diego, Ca

[Marinus]

lol. OEM pump actually runs at 50% of its max RPM, even under full boost or at redline. It only runs 100% if the ECU decides to run it under emergency mode, at which point it will send a signal to the pump to run 100% duty cycle. So if I pump twice as fast as the normal mode, I moving coolant at a much faster rate between the SC and the HX. Now I want my A back.


I don't quite understand this, if we cut the PVM, how does the ECU tell pump to go full 100%

[Albertaholdings]

I don't quite understand this, if we cut the PVM, how does the ECU tell pump to go full 100%Pump runs full with out PWM telling it to slow down.

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[djn876]

I don't quite understand this, if we cut the PVM, how does the ECU tell pump to go full 100%With no signal wire, it jusy turns into an on/off pump that runs at full power.

That being said, your tuner can also adjust how it performs so the 50% statement above may be true for that tune, but it can be changed. Mine runs at 94% for any sort of spirited driving, and stays there for a while until temps get back low enough, or I stop moving.

I don't even think the 50% statement is correct for even the factory tune though, the training material describes the fault response for some issues as an initial reduction of speed to 80%, which would indicate that even the factory tune will run at over that speed.

The PWM signal just turns power on/off very quickly, without that, it's just full on, with no pulse. Read about pulse width modulation if you aren't familiar with it and it will make more sense.

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226723

[wrxkyle]

has anyone done any datalogging to see how big a difference, if any, this pump makes? without hard data it's kinda hard to tell if it is a worth it mod vs just modding the stock pump by cutting the wire.

[Albertaholdings]

has anyone done any datalogging to see how big a difference, if any, this pump makes? without hard data it's kinda hard to tell if it is a worth it mod vs just modding the stock pump by cutting the wire.About 8c better Delta temps 0-130 runs. Better than meth that's only 3-4c better.

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[bajan01]

has anyone done any datalogging to see how big a difference, if any, this pump makes? without hard data it's kinda hard to tell if it is a worth it mod vs just modding the stock pump by cutting the wire.

When I installed my CWA100 pump about 2 years ago I bumped up from 3.18 to 3.37 pulley ratio at the same time and my IATs were about the same on a 1/4 mile run so there is definitely a gain with the pump. I have purchased one for my S4 and will be running it with a Merc hx vs. the AMS setup on my SQ5 so I’ll have some comparison there.

[01northernS4]

About 8c better Delta temps 0-130 runs. Better than meth that's only 3-4c better.[/URL]


When I installed my CWA100 pump about 2 years ago I bumped up from 3.18 to 3.37 pulley ratio at the same time and my IATs were about the same on a 1/4 mile run so there is definitely a gain with the pump. I have purchased one for my S4 and will be running it with a Merc hx vs. the AMS setup on my SQ5 so I’ll have some comparison there.

Think the higher flow makes the end tank welds on the intercoolers bricks in the supercharger that are known to fail more prone to leakage?

[bajan01]

Think the higher flow makes the end tank welds on the intercoolers bricks in the supercharger know to leak more prone to leakage?

Theoretically but I’ve been running factory bricks for over two years with a CWA100 and the AMS hx/reservoir which has a Varimax booster pump added to the loop and leaky bricks have not been a problem for me. I have also been at a 3.52 pulley ratio for most of that time.

[01northernS4]

Theoretically but I’ve been running factory bricks for over two years with a CWA100 and the AMS hx/reservoir which has a Varimax booster pump added to the loop and leaky bricks have not been a problem for me. I have also been at a 3.52 pulley ratio for most of that time.

Wow. That's awesome. I bet you're running the older 9 row version vs the newer 10 row revision... there were a few threads on here that suggested the newer denser revision were failing more frequently and the older ones were shown to be more robust with less failures generally.

[wrxkyle]

About 8c better Delta temps 0-130 runs. Better than meth that's only 3-4c better.

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thanks this is very helpful, what heat exchanger are you using? I'm guessing the more restrictive the hx the more benefit.

[wrxkyle]

Think the higher flow makes the end tank welds on the intercoolers bricks in the supercharger that are known to fail more prone to leakage?

personally i doubt it, the head pressure across the cores has to be very minimal(remember the fluid is a closed system and being sucked as much as it's being pushed [in an over simplified way] so the pressure is just from the flow resistance (called head pressure)), and not the source of the intercooler leaks i'd guess, rather the heating of the actual fluid expanding and putting that pressure on the cores (and the entire system) is what kills the cores. theoretically the faster flowing pump could help keep overall system temps down reducing the expansion pressure. using a pressure-vented system if going divorced might help with that as well, i know the forge heat exchanger system's coolant tank makes use of a factory rad cap below so it can drain if over pressurized, so the most it can build up in pressure is oem rad cap ammount (the metal cap for the forge tank is literally just a cosmetic cover with a set screw for an oem coolant cap)

[Albertaholdings]

thanks this is very helpful, what heat exchanger are you using? I'm guessing the more restrictive the hx the more benefit.Merc

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[mahhdd]

Subscribed. I've got this and a S6 HX incoming

[wrxkyle]

Can someone explain how this improves the cooling effect. As far as I can see you’re moving the hot water through the system quicker but surely it’s not getting enough contact time with the SC cooler/ incoming air or am I looking at it wrong???

i know this is an old post but seen this question several times as it has been argued but the evidence seems to speak for itself. as heat transfers into the water from the air the water will become less and less effective at grabbing more heat, as heat transfers better the bigger the delta(difference) is between temps. as far as total thermal capacity there is only the same amount of water in the system but our ic cores are dual pass, in the bottom, around the back, back through the top and out the front out to the radiator. so the fluid on the bottom pass of the ic has already picked up a lot of heat and now is being asked to carry even more of the load. by speeding up the water you get more fresh water across the cores faster, helping bring down your air temps which is really what we care about, not the ic water temps. also not all of the water is touching all of the air obviously, as they are in separate channels, getting water moving faster makes the boundary layer of water thinner (the hottest water touching directly to the aluminum cores) to get less hot water over them, and this effect is also reflected on the heat exchanger.

and then there is the more flow at more pressure, which if you have added a huge 3-4 pass radiator you might have more of compared to the stock dual pass/single pass heat exchanger/radiator.

the ideal would probably be add this one in series to the stock one on opposite sides of the loop for a push/pull setup but you'd have to figure out how to mount it and then plumb it.

[AudiC7Owners]

Hey everyone!

I just installed my CWA-100 3 and de-pinned the pwm wire.

Since doing that, my iat's seem to be higher & climb quickly.

After reading the thread I would like to check the wiring harness to verify if it is pinned correctly or not, but this is uncharted water for myself so I'm hoping someone can give me a run down on how to do that?

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[mahhdd]

Hey everyone!

I just installed my CWA-100 3 and de-pinned the pwm wire.

Since doing that, my iat's seem to be higher & climb quickly.

After reading the thread I would like to check the wiring harness to verify if it is pinned correctly or not, but this is uncharted water for myself so I'm hoping someone can give me a run down on how to do that?

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Bump for the thread experts to make an extra effort to help this guy... He has a YouTube channel is and going to make videos of this stuff, and it'll be a good addition to this thread.

[AudiC7Owners]

Bump for the thread experts to make an extra effort to help this guy... He has a YouTube channel is and going to make videos of this stuff, and it'll be a good addition to this thread.Thanks man!

And a small update: I just scanned the car to verify that the pump was throwing the soft code for emergency mode, but it wasn't there.

So either I de-pinned the wrong plug (followed the posted diagram) or it was pinned incorrectly.

Does anyone have the correct connections for the wiring harness? I know it isn't 1-1, 2-2, 3-3. I'm going to pull my harness off tonight to double check & make sure it is right.

Is it:

1-2
2-3
3-1

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[irish07]

Thanks man!

And a small update: I just scanned the car to verify that the pump was throwing the soft code for emergency mode, but it wasn't there.

So either I de-pinned the wrong plug (followed the posted diagram) or it was pinned incorrectly.

Does anyone have the correct connections for the wiring harness? I know it isn't 1-1, 2-2, 3-3. I'm going to pull my harness off tonight to double check & make sure it is right.

Is it:

1-2
2-3
3-1

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I don’t have the pin layout but easy test to know it’s working, if you’ve cut the wire and it’s now running 100%, you should be able to crack the IC bleeders and have pressure spraying out (with only key on/engine off..aka cold engine with no hot pressure in system)


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[RoofRails]

Thanks man!

And a small update: I just scanned the car to verify that the pump was throwing the soft code for emergency mode, but it wasn't there.

So either I de-pinned the wrong plug (followed the posted diagram) or it was pinned incorrectly.

Does anyone have the correct connections for the wiring harness? I know it isn't 1-1, 2-2, 3-3. I'm going to pull my harness off tonight to double check & make sure it is right.

Is it:

1-2
2-3
3-1

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210429/bbbb06f68fa6f442847383c0a0dc11b9.jpg

It is
1-2
2-3
3-1

Just like the pictures of the harness you posted. Make sure when your looking at the CWA50 harness you find the little key nub in there and use that to for the #1 pin. I actually had a harness from Merc come pinned wrong.

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[AudiC7Owners]

It is
1-2
2-3
3-1

Just like the pictures of the harness you posted. Make sure when your looking at the CWA50 harness you find the little key nub in there and use that to for the #1 pin. I actually had a harness from Merc come pinned wrong.

Sent from my SHT-W09 using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Thank you. I'm going to be double checking everything on the harness thinking.

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[AudiC7Owners]

Another quick update.

I pulled the wiring harness out and I did verify that it was pinned correctly and I did verify that removing the wire that I originally removed was the pwm wire and the pump was running at 100%. So everything is working as it should be. For some reason I am still getting relatively high iat's for a stage 2 single pulley tune. On a 1st through 4th your pool, as well as a 4th gear pull from 2,000 RPMs I'm going from approximately 102 degrees Fahrenheit to 175 degrees Fahrenheit. I have the 4.0T MercRacing heat exchanger.

I feel like I was very thorough and my bleed procedure, but I'm going to investigate any potential areas that are could be hiding in the system. But for now I think I'm going to put some BG super cool or water wetter into the system to keep my iat's down until me and Jose figure out what is going on.

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