Ultra High Performance All Season Tires

[Eclemente]

Can someone please direct me to thread discussing Ultra High Performance All Season Tires? Thanks!

[waxxonMTL]

just get PS4S and call it a day lol.

[maty360414]

Continental DSW

[mcjim]

just get PS4S and call it a day lol.

Those are not all season tires. I can tell you from exp these are not great tires in low temps.

[Gberg888]

There is no such thing as "ultra high performance all seasons" least not in reality. They market shit with that title, but it is a farce

All seasons as a tire are a farce. They are a lie. They are compromised in every single category of performance. You own an S4, you should have 2 sets of tires. This isn't a budget carolla... this isn't a small SUV driven by your girlfriend, its a fucking performance sedan.

The reasons they are POS tires is as follows:

The main facet of a tire that provides its grip is its compound. The tire compound is the single most important attribute of a tire. That compound is designed to work within a specific temperature range and operating temp. Summer tires are harder in compound and are designed to handle and perform at their peak performance in hotter temperatures when they are pushed in things like spirited driving. Winter tires are softer. The softer compound is designed to work and remain soft in cold temperatures. The compound itself allows the tire to actually deform around the imperfections in any and all surfaces the tire is rolling over and that is where your grip comes from. The actual cut of the tire is really only there for surface contact and water evacuation except for the mini cuts in a snow tire which allow for further deformation around imperfections in the road to also provide a moderate level of additional grip. With summer tries, the compound, when too cold, will not deform at all or get warm enough to operate properly and will actually splinter itself into oblivion.

Now for All Seasons:
The reason they are garbage is because they have to be made 1 of 2 ways. The first is an in-between compound which is "acceptable" in both hot and cold weathers, deforms enough but not too much where it destroys itself in the summer and winter. The entire contact patch and sidewall are made of the same in-between compound which is basically good at nothing. The compound is not hard enough to really push the car and not soft enough to truly give you desired levels of grip in the winter.
The second is when they put different bands of the compound together. This means that one section of the tire is a warm temp compound and the other is a cold temp compound. This means that x% of your contact patch in the opposing weather is fucking useless. Therefore, no matter what "all seasons" you get, you are compromised and riding on shit tires.

Now, if you are a slow driver, a grandma, a pussy, or someone who doesn't give a fuck (most the population on the roads fall into the last one) then go for all seasons. If you lease, go for all seasons, if you live in a part of the country that never sees winter, buy all seasons, but do not come onto a forum driving a S4 and ask for the "ultra high performance all season" especially when living in a state that sees winter and snow every single year!

Its a fucking joke.

Sorry to be an asshole, but All Seasons really grind my gears.

[BaumerS4]

I ran a set of DSW 06's through three Chicago winters without issue. Even did an ice driving event on a frozen lake in Wisconsin on them. Also didn't have a chance to swap my summers every year, so ran them year round for awhile and they performed well enough.

[hilmar2k]

There is no such thing as "ultra high performance all seasons" least not in reality. They market shit with that title, but it is a farce

All seasons as a tire are a farce. They are a lie. They are compromised in every single category of performance. You own an S4, you should have 2 sets of tires. This isn't a budget carolla... this isn't a small SUV driven by your girlfriend, its a fucking performance sedan.

The reasons they are POS tires is as follows:

The main facet of a tire that provides its grip is its compound. The tire compound is the single most important attribute of a tire. That compound is designed to work within a specific temperature range and operating temp. Summer tires are harder in compound and are designed to handle and perform at their peak performance in hotter temperatures when they are pushed in things like spirited driving. Winter tires are softer. The softer compound is designed to work and remain soft in cold temperatures. The compound itself allows the tire to actually deform around the imperfections in any and all surfaces the tire is rolling over and that is where your grip comes from. The actual cut of the tire is really only there for surface contact and water evacuation except for the mini cuts in a snow tire which allow for further deformation around imperfections in the road to also provide a moderate level of additional grip. With summer tries, the compound, when too cold, will not deform at all or get warm enough to operate properly and will actually splinter itself into oblivion.

Now for All Seasons:
The reason they are garbage is because they have to be made 1 of 2 ways. The first is an in-between compound which is "acceptable" in both hot and cold weathers, deforms enough but not too much where it destroys itself in the summer and winter. The entire contact patch and sidewall are made of the same in-between compound which is basically good at nothing. The compound is not hard enough to really push the car and not soft enough to truly give you desired levels of grip in the winter.
The second is when they put different bands of the compound together. This means that one section of the tire is a warm temp compound and the other is a cold temp compound. This means that x% of your contact patch in the opposing weather is fucking useless. Therefore, no matter what "all seasons" you get, you are compromised and riding on shit tires.

Now, if you are a slow driver, a grandma, a pussy, or someone who doesn't give a fuck (most the population on the roads fall into the last one) then go for all seasons. If you lease, go for all seasons, if you live in a part of the country that never sees winter, buy all seasons, but do not come onto a forum driving a S4 and ask for the "ultra high performance all season" especially when living in a state that sees winter and snow every single year!

Its a fucking joke.

Sorry to be an asshole, but All Seasons really grind my gears.

I beg to differ. There absolutely are some all season tires that perform quite well. Do you sacrifice some summer performance? Sure. Are they as good in the snow as dedicated winter tires? Of course not. That said, unless you drive your car like you're always on a track, or live in an area that gets crazy snow, a good all season performance tire works just fine. Here are a couple I have experience with:

BF Goodrich G-Force Comp-2 A/S (had them on my TT and my A6)
Cooper Zeon RS3-G1 (buddy has them on his Jag and loves them)
Toyo Proxes 4 Plus (current tire on my S4)

I drive fairly aggressively and never have any issues with grip. They are all great in the rain, and good enough in the snow in combination with AWD. Obviously 2 sets of tires would be ideal, but certainly not necessary.

[SteveYem]

I ended up with three sets of wheels and tires - and 18" winter setup (Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4), 19" all-season setup (Continental DWS), and 19" summer setup (Michelin PSS). I didn't really plan for it to work out that way, but it happened. It works out really well for me here in PA where the month of March (and sometimes into early April) the temperature fluctuates 30-50 degrees F and maybe it snows, maybe it doesn't. Same sort of thing happens late November in mid-late December. During those months I run the all-season setup which is a good compromise. It's a bit of extra work and storage space for the extra set of wheels+tires, but worth it to me. That being said, if my winter setup was 19" and not as egregious looking as my current 18" set, I might be inclined to just keep the winters on until I'm 100% sure the snow and freezing temps are done.

[EAFLO88]

Don’t be an idiot and stay away from anything all-season. I’ve had Michelin A/S 3+ & Cont DWS 06. I learned to hate them both.

[hilmar2k]

I ended up with three sets of wheels and tires -

Yup, that's the issue with running dedicated summer and winter tires. I did when I had my MB E500 (RWD, snows were a must). First spring after I had the car I swapped tires back to summer. Three days later, a foot of snow and I was screwed. So lesson learned, right? Next spring, nope, not switching just yet. Three days later, 80 degrees outside and I destroy my winter tires.

I just don't understand all the all season hate. I guarantee you've never driven on a really good set if you have that opinion.

[SteveYem]

Yup, that's the issue with running dedicated summer and winter tires. I did when I had my MB E500 (RWD, snows were a must). First spring after I had the car I swapped tires back to summer. Three days later, a foot of snow and I was screwed. So lesson learned, right? Next spring, nope, not switching just yet. Three days later, 80 degrees outside and I destroy my winter tires.

I just don't understand all the all season hate. I guarantee you've never driven on a really good set if you have that opinion.


Yes, exactly. All season tires are better than running winter tires on warm days, or summer tires are cold days. They area good interim solution for the couple of transitional months that we have in the northeast US. No offense, but I would not expect the guy from Houston to be as receptive to it (and yes, I understand that it occasionally gets down into freezing temps in southern Texas, as an outlier condition).

[jcpowell]

Yeah I really don't get two things. 1. Why people on here pride the S4 as this fucking super sedan that only rich people drive. Don't get me wrong, I love my car but it also cost me under 30k. 2. How can you diss all seasons like everybody lives in the same driving and climate conditions as you.

I live in Georgia where we rarely see snow and if we do it's become a state of emergency (lol). Occasionally I'll drive it up to the mountains where there's gravel and dirt roads at steep inclines..all seasons come in handy here over full summer tires. Not everyone on here wants their S4 to be a race car. With that being said, I've been using Yokohama Advan Sport A/S and they have proved to do quite well in a variety of conditions, including a little spirited driving on a hot day.

[01northernS4]

Continental DSW

+1

I just replace my dws with dws06... marked improvement upon any little gripes the dws may have had (squishy or soft if not running high psi, now not an issue)

love, love, love the dws06

great job conti keep it up


also, I run 2 sets of tires since I live in the north east... winters and "ultra high performance all season" dws06... can't tell you how many times the dws shines in the spring and fall cross over periods where you still have frost nights... allows me to run summer wheel setup at least 2 additional months in the year and be 100% safe... and honestly, compared to a dedicated summer tire, unless you're tracking it or need 100% performance all the time... I'll stick with my 90%+ performance and be safe, comfortable and have longer treadlife all at a great price and look

but for somebody who wants a true all season performance tire, the dws and dws06 are the only true options

just imho

[hilmar2k]

+1

I just replace my dws with dws06... marked improvement upon any little gripes the dws may have had (squishy or soft if not running high psi, now not an issue)

love, love, love the dws06

great job conti keep it up

You run those year round? I am considering those as a replacement for my Toyo Proxes 4 Plus come winter.

[Gberg888]

Well first off, you may have bought it for 30k,or 20k or, 18k, but that does change the fact that new it was 55-65k sedan.

Second, if you do live in Texas or Georgia, or any of the states that see snow once every 10 years, then all the power to you to only have summers and/or an all season for the non summer months. The thing is, the OP is from NY. He is looking for a 1 tire solution, and that does not exist when you can go from 100 degrees to -15 degrees and have all types of precipitation through the four different seasons of the year. When you slide into the back of someone because you tires don't get you the grip you need during a snow storm, that extra 4-8 ft of stopping distance saved is the difference between a new front end and getting away with a small poo stain in the pants...

Finally, AWD in these cars and any car makes barely a difference. The only thing touching the ground in the tires, therefore, they are the only thing providing grip. You run shit tires you get shit grip. Sure, awd will help in certain situations where 1 or 2 wheels are spinning because they have no grip, but in a driving/sliding situation, it dont matter. Its all about the tires. You cant just rely on your "AWD" to save you and allow you to run crappier tires.

[01northernS4]

You run those year round? I am considering those as a replacement for my Toyo Proxes 4 Plus come winter.

I have run them in the winter and unless you are in terribly deep stuff (like a foot, lol) they do great... I now run winters as I get an insurance discount and the roads are terrible here in the winter with potholes and such so why not but I'd have no problem doing so from a performance and safety perspective

[01northernS4]

I ran a set of DSW 06's through three Chicago winters without issue. Even did an ice driving event on a frozen lake in Wisconsin on them. Also didn't have a chance to swap my summers every year, so ran them year round for awhile and they performed well enough.

+1

[hilmar2k]

Well first off, you may have bought it for 30k,or 20k or, 18k, but that does change the fact that new it was 55-65k sedan.

Second, if you do live in Texas or Georgia, or any of the states that see snow once every 10 years, then all the power to you to only have summers and/or an all season for the non summer months. The thing is, the OP is from NY. He is looking for a 1 tire solution, and that does not exist when you can go from 100 degrees to -15 degrees and have all types of precipitation through the four different seasons of the year. When you slide into the back of someone because you tires don't get you the grip you need during a snow storm, that extra 4-8 ft of stopping distance saved is the difference between a new front end and getting away with a small poo stain in the pants...

Finally, AWD in these cars and any car makes barely a difference. The only thing touching the ground in the tires, therefore, they are the only thing providing grip. You run shit tires you get shit grip. Sure, awd will help in certain situations where 1 or 2 wheels are spinning because they have no grip, but in a driving/sliding situation, it dont matter. Its all about the tires. You cant just rely on your "AWD" to save you and allow you to run crappier tires.

OP is from LI. My guess is that there are single digit days per year where a snow tire is really needed. So you are sacrificing a lot to drive on snows for those 6 days. I live further north than the OP in the Hudson Valley. We get more snow. I drive on good high performance all seasons and never have any trouble in the snow. Buffalo? That would be a different story.

[01northernS4]

I beg to differ. There absolutely are some all season tires that perform quite well. Do you sacrifice some summer performance? Sure. Are they as good in the snow as dedicated winter tires? Of course not. That said, unless you drive your car like you're always on a track, or live in an area that gets crazy snow, a good all season performance tire works just fine. Here are a couple I have experience with:

BF Goodrich G-Force Comp-2 A/S (had them on my TT and my A6)
Cooper Zeon RS3-G1 (buddy has them on his Jag and loves them)
Toyo Proxes 4 Plus (current tire on my S4)

I drive fairly aggressively and never have any issues with grip. They are all great in the rain, and good enough in the snow in combination with AWD. Obviously 2 sets of tires would be ideal, but certainly not necessary.

agreed, great response

[brs2c]

If you live a a place that has a clearly delineated summer and winter, AND have the money and storage for 1 summer set and 1 winter set- this is definitely the optimal route. However, if you live in a place like I do, where it snows an inch one day and the next day it is 80'- all seasons make a lot of sense.

As far as which tire is best- I tried the Continental Extreme Contact DWS and it rides really nice, is cushy (perfect for a city with potholes), and has good straight line grip (compared to other all seasons), HOWEVER, the softer sidewalls are terrible if you take windy back roads or canyon carve- I mean they are like driving a bouncy castle. I had the Continentals removed and installed the Michelin AS3+'s. MUCH happier with these. I guess they are the top rated tire in this category, for a reason.

[waxxonMTL]

Those are not all season tires. I can tell you from exp these are not great tires in low temps.

then get winter tires and run 2 sets. No such thing as high performance all-season tire lol. You can't have both the Nokian Hakka 9 winter grip and Michelin PS4S summer grip at once lol.

[cjw]

Lol at blowhards. Every tire is a compromise. There are scenerios between PS4S and studded Nokians.

The DWS are more than capable in winter. There has extremely squirmy sidewalls when I ran then. The DWS06 are supposed to be better, but the Tire Rack test mentions week steering response.

I ran AS3s right now, pretty good tire, but I don't trust then in any kind of snow. I don't have a pit crew and we can have snow one day and 70 weather the next, so something that can get you through a couple of light days a year without being crazy (like full on summers) are good to have. Plus, they typically have some better treadlife.

[Gberg888]

His location says Kings Park NY... hence my anger...

[hilmar2k]

His location says Kings Park NY... hence my anger...

Which is on Long Island, which doesn't get much snow.....hence my immediate dismissal of your anger.

[GandalfTheIbis]

Two sets ftw if you'll see snow more than 10-15 days per year or genuinely think you'll need all the traction you can get for the driving you'll be doing.

[SteveYem]

Lol at blowhards. Every tire is a compromise. There are scenerios between PS4S and studded Nokians.

The DWS are more than capable in winter. There has extremely squirmy sidewalls when I ran then. The DWS06 are supposed to be better, but the Tire Rack test mentions week steering response.

I ran AS3s right now, pretty good tire, but I don't trust then in any kind of snow. I don't have a pit crew and we can have snow one day and 70 weather the next, so something that can get you through a couple of light days a year without being crazy (like full on summers) are good to have. Plus, they typically have some better treadlife.

I've read mixed reviews on the DWS06, but regarding steering response I wonder if it gets better as the tires wear in, and whether the reviews of poor steering feel are based on the first XXX miles?

[Snowmonkey]

Ive been running A/S 3+ since that's what came new with the car when i bought it in Feb. Driving 900 miles back through an ice storm they handled great in the slush, and now that the weather is back to 80s in Kansas they seem to run pretty well. Obviously i'm not canyon carving or anything but the spritited on-ramps or ambitious back road corners have been great. I am planning on getting a set of proper summers soon, and will keep the A/S3s until they wear out and I get a set of winters. plan on moving to Minnesota in a few years so will probably invest in another set of all-seasons for the few weeks in between summer and winter up there.

[MSq5]

There is a reason new cars typically come with A/S tires and that they are by far the leading seller across almost all tire brands. They bridge the gap and do it decently. I am sort of a "tire snob" myself, running the OEM 20" summer tire package on my new Q5 and running Yokohama AD-08R extreme performance summer tires on my little hot hatchback. When the Bridgestone summer tires on the Q5 need replacing I will go with the best available summer tire. So, I have no prejudice against summer rubber.

My Stage 2 3.0T Q5 is classified as a "small suv." It is not a girlfriend or soccer mom car. It is my work car. In its current state of tune, it runs mid 12's with a 0-60 of 4.3. That is better than stock S4 and most stage 1 S4 cars. I may add cooling and go double pulley ratio later this year. I did get the summer tire package, but it seems that those with A/S rubber are doing just about as well on all but road course lap times.

But, we run A/S UHP Michelin tires on my wife's S90 Volvo and similar Cooper tires on my full size Nissan Armada SUV (actually more of a M/S tread).

Yes, A/S tires are not as good as dedicated summer tires for aggressive summer driving and give up a lot to dedicated winter tires in the snow.

I'm in south Mississippi, so no snow here. We do get icy roads in Jan/Feb, but only for a few days. A/S work fine for us under those circumstances. On those days, I keep the summer tired cars garaged and drive the Armada.

There are many instances in which an A/S tire makes sense, even on a performance car. Were I to run an A/S on a high performance car it would be the current Conti DWS 06, and yes, it is properly classified as an UHP A/S tire. Ran Pirelli P-Zero Nero A/S on the hatch for a season and they were terrible. But, that was the tire compound and tread design and not that it was A/S. It was horrible in the wet.

Oh, and for those on a budget, A/S tires will typically have a much longer tread life than the soft compounds on the dedicated summer tires I run.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=ExtremeContact+DWS+06

[jcpowell]

Well first off, you may have bought it for 30k,or 20k or, 18k, but that does change the fact that new it was 55-65k sedan.

Second, if you do live in Texas or Georgia, or any of the states that see snow once every 10 years, then all the power to you to only have summers and/or an all season for the non summer months. The thing is, the OP is from NY. He is looking for a 1 tire solution, and that does not exist when you can go from 100 degrees to -15 degrees and have all types of precipitation through the four different seasons of the year. When you slide into the back of someone because you tires don't get you the grip you need during a snow storm, that extra 4-8 ft of stopping distance saved is the difference between a new front end and getting away with a small poo stain in the pants...

Finally, AWD in these cars and any car makes barely a difference. The only thing touching the ground in the tires, therefore, they are the only thing providing grip. You run shit tires you get shit grip. Sure, awd will help in certain situations where 1 or 2 wheels are spinning because they have no grip, but in a driving/sliding situation, it dont matter. Its all about the tires. You cant just rely on your "AWD" to save you and allow you to run crappier tires.

And I agree with you..It's an awesome car that you can get for a third of the cost when it was new with not that high of mileage. I'm just willing to bet that a lot of people on here did not pay the 55-65k, me being one of them.

I see where you're coming from, I've never had to have two sets of tires. In fact that sounds really annoying and it reinforces why I hate cold weather, I'd live in Florida if I could lol. Even in mild winter weather here people try and drive on their summer tires and it turns out very badly. All seasons have worked great for me though.

[hilmar2k]

I've read mixed reviews on the DWS06, but regarding steering response I wonder if it gets better as the tires wear in, and whether the reviews of poor steering feel are based on the first XXX miles?

Yeah, I've read a lot of those reviews, which is why I don;t have them. For the best summer performance, I recommend the BFGoodrich's I mentioned in an earlier post. They are extremely close to a summer tire, while still being acceptable in the winter. My only issue with them was an odd wear pattern that both I and a buddy with a Jag had (same tires). We both wore out the front driver's side tire way faster than the rest. No alignment issue. Odd that on two different cars (Jaguar XF and Audi A6) both wore the same tire out quickly.

[brs2c]

I've read mixed reviews on the DWS06, but regarding steering response I wonder if it gets better as the tires wear in, and whether the reviews of poor steering feel are based on the first XXX miles?

I think it is the sidewall stiffness. The DWS06's went on/off my wheels with reasonable ease. With my AS3+'s- that poor little guy had to really work.

[01northernS4]

If you live a a place that has a clearly delineated summer and winter, AND have the money and storage for 1 summer set and 1 winter set- this is definitely the optimal route. However, if you live in a place like I do, where it snows an inch one day and the next day it is 80'- all seasons make a lot of sense.

As far as which tire is best- I tried the Continental Extreme Contact DWS and it rides really nice, is cushy (perfect for a city with potholes), and has good straight line grip (compared to other all seasons), HOWEVER, the softer sidewalls are terrible if you take windy back roads or canyon carve- I mean they are like driving a bouncy castle. I had the Continentals removed and installed the Michelin AS3+'s. MUCH happier with these. I guess they are the top rated tire in this category, for a reason.

yes, dws had a tendency to be soft but higher psi (41psi) cured that... now dws06 does away with that for me and I don't even have to run higher psi... great updated tire to address that little shortcoming, for me.

[01northernS4]

I've read mixed reviews on the DWS06, but regarding steering response I wonder if it gets better as the tires wear in, and whether the reviews of poor steering feel are based on the first XXX miles?

I have no problems at all with the dws06, steering response is great but as mentioned above generally run 41 psi front and 38psi rear as per audi full load specs... great and comfortable no issues here... very happy

[TEB]

I always wonder the opposite question: Why can't you get decent summer tires with higher treadwear numbers -- more like A/S tires? I realize they will not be UHP tires due to the harder rubber compounds, but you'd think I could find tires I can run all year round in FL that won't wear out in 15-20k miles. If I want 50-60k mile tires, they pretty much have to be A/S tires.

As an FYI, I have R-compound tires on light wheels I use for the track -- no need for UHP tires for daily driving.

[hilmar2k]

I always wonder the opposite question: Why can't you get decent summer tires with higher treadwear numbers -- more like A/S tires? I realize they will not be UHP tires due to the harder rubber compounds, but you'd think I could find tires I can run all year round in FL that won't wear out in 15-20k miles. If I want 50-60k mile tires, they pretty much have to be A/S tires.

As an FYI, I have R-compound tires on light wheels I use for the track -- no need for UHP tires for daily driving.

You answered you're own question. The harder compound is what makes them A/S. Summer tires are much softer, hence the shorter wear. There are some "all season" tires which are really just summer tires with a harder compound that will perform "almost" as well as summer tires, won't turn into hockey pucks when the temperature drops below 40 degrees, and will wear better than summer tires.

[whiped]

As a man with 5 sets of wheels and tires currently, dedicated winters are WAY better than all seasons.

With that said, I rarely see snow or very harsh conditions so I'm switching to all seasons during the winter.


I always wonder the opposite question: Why can't you get decent summer tires with higher treadwear numbers -- more like A/S tires? I realize they will not be UHP tires due to the harder rubber compounds, but you'd think I could find tires I can run all year round in FL that won't wear out in 15-20k miles. If I want 50-60k mile tires, they pretty much have to be A/S tires.

As an FYI, I have R-compound tires on light wheels I use for the track -- no need for UHP tires for daily driving.

I have 20k and counting on my Conti ExtremeContact DW's. I have 100+ drag passes on them and have cut some killer 60's.

Can't ask much more for a summer tire.

[NotQuickEnough]

While we are on topic, "performance winter tires" such as the SottoZeros are garbage as well.

[TEB]

I have 20k and counting on my Conti ExtremeContact DW's. I have 100+ drag passes on them and have cut some killer 60's.

Can't ask much more for a summer tire.

LOL, I'm asking for more. Since I have dedicated track tires, I want tires for daily use in Florida that will last a long time. The DW's have UTQG=340, while the DSW 06 have a UTQC=560. I just want Continental to make a tire with the same tread pattern as the Extremecontact Sport using the DSW 06 rubber compound. I'm guessing that due to the larger blocks of tread, my fictional tire should handle slightly better in summer than the DSW 06, and not give up any life faster.

My wife's MDX has DSW 06's -- which have been great tires. I just want something that looks sportier for my S4.

[hilmar2k]

LOL, I'm asking for more. Since I have dedicated track tires, I want tires for daily use in Florida that will last a long time. The DW's have UTQG=340, while the DSW 06 have a UTQC=560. I just want Continental to make a tire with the same tread pattern as the Extremecontact Sport using the DSW 06 rubber compound. I'm guessing that due to the larger blocks of tread, my fictional tire should handle slightly better in summer than the DSW 06, and not give up any life faster.

My wife's MDX has DSW 06's -- which have been great tires. I just want something that looks sportier for my S4.

https://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire/bf-goodrich/g-force-comp-2-a-s/255-35-zr19-96-w--bsw?fromResultList=&zipCode=12570

[Senseless]

All seasons are fine for most winter driving when they are new or nearly new. As soon as they drop below 50% tread, it's another story. So I run into the problem of having to replace a full set of A/S in December, when they still have 4/32" tread left.

[BozMan-S4]

I have Nokian Hakka’s for winter and PS4’s for summer. This is the first time I’ve ever had two specific setups, in the past I also ran UHP AS tires, both Goodyear F1 and Michelin AS3+. I ran the UHP’s on a Cadillac STS-V and lived in Icy Arkansas, Philadelphia, Michigan and Ohio. The F1’s in my opinion were the BEST, but would cup if the tires got crazy cold (which happened every winter of course) and Goodyear supplied a new set every spring. I drove from northern MI to Cincinnati OH in my RWD V car in a blizzard that stretched the entire 500 miles. I would run Goodyear F1 Asymmetric again in a heartbeat if the cupping issue didn’t exist. 100% truth is Goodyear replaced so many sets (5 in total) they paid for me to switch to Michelin AS3’s. Again IMO no tire touched the AS traction like the GY F1’s UHP AS. The Michelin’s are decent and held a 600hp rwd on the road in the middle of winter. Now...straight winter, Hakka’s are like tank tracks.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[pdqgp]

I ran a set of DSW 06's through three Chicago winters without issue. Even did an ice driving event on a frozen lake in Wisconsin on them. Also didn't have a chance to swap my summers every year, so ran them year round for awhile and they performed well enough.

^^ this. Running DWS-06's on my Red Sport and love them. Did great in snow and ice.

[Starman17]

This is discussed ad nauseum everywhere. This is at least as objective and up to date as I've ever been able to find. But if you really dig into it, even Tire Racks tests can't get super consistent results with their tires. Drivers are not robots. Weather conditions change. So that said, it comes down to driver diligence how safe you are on the tires you have. Here's a selection of tires that you can fit onto oem 18" or 19" wheels. You can go on tire rack to see more charts, I just picked the ones I felt were the most objective and repeatable stats. You can disagree.

https://i.imgur.com/oako1tg.png

https://i.imgur.com/42yZJGW.png

Regarding summer vs. all seasons in dry they are really close. Wet you can see the performance gapping more. But if you are driving around others in a manner where you think your safety truly depends on your tires being summers, take that shit to a track. If you are finding yourself frequently in situations where you have to panic stop or take turns anywhere near the limits of traction, perhaps you should consider driving more defensively instead.

In winter conditions, even UHP all seasons will get you by around town, regularly plowed roads. Try it out, maybe you are OK with the level of traction and the amount of care needed to stay safe with them. It's not like snow tires suddenly make the snow and ice feel like dry warm asphalt. It will still suck, and you sure as shit should still be driving extremely carefully.

[SteveYem]

This is discussed ad nauseum everywhere. This is at least as objective and up to date as I've ever been able to find. But if you really dig into it, even Tire Racks tests can't get super consistent results with their tires. Drivers are not robots. Weather conditions change. So that said, it comes down to driver diligence how safe you are on the tires you have. Here's a selection of tires that you can fit onto oem 18" or 19" wheels. You can go on tire rack to see more charts, I just picked the ones I felt were the most objective and repeatable stats. You can disagree.



Regarding summer vs. all seasons in dry they are really close. Wet you can see the performance gapping more. But if you are driving around others in a manner where you think your safety truly depends on your tires being summers, take that shit to a track. If you are finding yourself frequently in situations where you have to panic stop or take turns anywhere near the limits of traction, perhaps you should consider driving more defensively instead.

In winter conditions, even UHP all seasons will get you by around town, regularly plowed roads. Try it out, maybe you are OK with the level of traction and the amount of care needed to stay safe with them. It's not like snow tires suddenly make the snow and ice feel like dry warm asphalt. It will still suck, and you sure as shit should still be driving extremely carefully.

Thank you for posting that data. I think your take on the situation is among the most reasonable I've seen here.

[bakedziti]

I've been doing just fine with my DWS and DWS06es for the last 3 years in Buffalo, NY. I wouldn't hesitate to run all seasons year round, but especially here where the weather jumps from 30° to 78° and back within a couple of days.

That said, I believe the name inherently tells you that there will be compromises made with any tire selection. The marketing is spot on, because they give you the best possible blend of seasons within a single unit. Of course there will always be a better tire for the driving conditions, but unless we all have a means of changing out tires from day-to-day, or actually push our cars to the limits some seem to imply, it just isn't reasonable to say that UHP AS tires are useless.

It does make me wonder what you guys think of all weather tires? Before someone claims they're the same, they aren't. All weather are meant to fill the category/compound gap between AS and dedicated winter tires.

This year will be the first time I have a dedicated setup for summer and for winter, but I am already concerned with the chance I'll be SOL one morning when it snows too soon, or is suddenly 70° in November.

[SteveYem]

I've been doing just fine with my DWS and DWS06es for the last 3 years in Buffalo, NY. I wouldn't hesitate to run all seasons year round, but especially here where the weather jumps from 30° to 78° and back within a couple of days.

That said, I believe the name inherently tells you that there will be compromises made with any tire selection. The marketing is spot on, because they give you the best possible blend of seasons within a single unit. Of course there will always be a better tire for the driving conditions, but unless we all have a means of changing out tires from day-to-day, or actually push our cars to the limits some seem to imply, it just isn't reasonable to say that UHP AS tires are useless.

It does make me wonder what you guys think of all weather tires? Before someone claims they're the same, they aren't. All weather are meant to fill the category/compound gap between AS and dedicated winter tires.

This year will be the first time I have a dedicated setup for summer and for winter, but I am already concerned with the chance I'll be SOL one morning when it snows too soon, or is suddenly 70° in November.


I am asking because I really don't know, having never lived in your area - In all practicality, how many days per year do you have to drive the car on roads that are covered in snow, let's say more than 2" of snow on the pavement? I know Buffalo and similar areas get a lot of snowfall, but those areas also tend to be (I would think) well-equipped to treat the roads and clear the roads more efficiently than my area in southeast PA where we don't get nearly as much snowfall and so it seems that most municipalities do not spend the resources to be as well-equipped as they should be in many cases.

So my point is - on average do you really need the capability that a dedicated winter tire would provide to drive through deep snow, or would you be OK with an all-season tire that has a rubber compound that remains soft enough at freezing temperatures?

Here in southeast PA, we get 2-3 "bad" snow storms per winter season, "bad" being typically no more than 1 foot of snow. Roads are typically cleared within half a day after completion of the snow fall, so I am rarely in the situation where I need to drive over multiple inches of snow laying on the road. Based on this I have been considering ditching my 18" dedicated winter setup and instead running a good set of 19" high-performance all season tires as my winter set. The idea is that I should be able to "limp by" if I get caught out in a heavy snow storm, while also having a tire that gets me through the freezing-to-warm-to-freezing again transitions that we also get here in March-April.

[didyouseethat83]

So much bull shit. What the best budget summer tire then? These pirelli p7’s are not cutting it


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[SteveYem]

So much bull shit. What the best budget summer tire then? These pirelli p7’s are not cutting it


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I can't vouch for them personally (never used them), but I've seen a lot of good reviews recently for the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 tires as a budget-friendly option. Of course, some bad reports, too. Might be worth checking out the reviews on TireRack.

[kjeeper10]

You would figure this argument would be on a 2 wheel drive BMW forum. If i can deal with 37” muds on part time 4wd short wheel base jeep during the winter months i should be able to handle even the worst all season tire tire on a qauttro Audi lol

[kjeeper10]

So much bull shit. What the best budget summer tire then? These pirelli p7’s are not cutting it


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Im seeing some positive reviews on the new FS Firehalk indy.

I just ordered Sumitomo summers with new wheels. Dealer put Sumitomo A/S On my S5 And i like them.

[bakedziti]

I am asking because I really don't know, having never lived in your area - In all practicality, how many days per year do you have to drive the car on roads that are covered in snow, let's say more than 2" of snow on the pavement? I know Buffalo and similar areas get a lot of snowfall, but those areas also tend to be (I would think) well-equipped to treat the roads and clear the roads more efficiently than my area in southeast PA where we don't get nearly as much snowfall and so it seems that most municipalities do not spend the resources to be as well-equipped as they should be in many cases.

So my point is - on average do you really need the capability that a dedicated winter tire would provide to drive through deep snow, or would you be OK with an all-season tire that has a rubber compound that remains soft enough at freezing temperatures?

Here in southeast PA, we get 2-3 "bad" snow storms per winter season, "bad" being typically no more than 1 foot of snow. Roads are typically cleared within half a day after completion of the snow fall, so I am rarely in the situation where I need to drive over multiple inches of snow laying on the road. Based on this I have been considering ditching my 18" dedicated winter setup and instead running a good set of 19" high-performance all season tires as my winter set. The idea is that I should be able to "limp by" if I get caught out in a heavy snow storm, while also having a tire that gets me through the freezing-to-warm-to-freezing again transitions that we also get here in March-April.

Great questions/points!

You're spot on in that we are well equipped to deal with the snow. If I had to ballpark an estimate, I would say there's probably 30 days during the winter that we have 2" or more of snow on the roads that needs to be cleared. I live on the West side of the city and that is only important because we are often the last part of the city that gets attention from a plow. I also generally leave around 5am during the week in order to go to the gym before work, and to avoid traffic on my reverse commute. But, that also means that I likely deal with more snow on the roads than others; at least in the mornings, since the majority of our plowing occurs overnight and into the morning commute.

I think your strategy for the AS tires should suffice nicely for the few days that you have accumulation of 2" or more, because I think the worst case scenario would be to drive more a little more cautiously for that day. Maybe I'll stick with the AS tires for the winter to keep the fringe days safe without destroying some marshmallow winters, since I've done well so far. My new wheels will get some summers though, but only because I'm finally in the position to have a summer setup.

[zach.odell]

Don’t buy the Conti DWS06 unless you want to buy a new set of tires every 20k. I learned from experience.


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[MSq5]

So much bull shit. What the best budget summer tire then? These pirelli p7’s are not cutting it


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Wrong thread. Off topic, and I run summer tires. Maybe start your own thread?

[f_399]

I think it all depends on where you live.

Someone in Florida just needs dry/wet tires.

Someone in Canada I think would need a set of all seasons and a set of snow tires when it's deep in the winter season

Someone in an area that gets a couple days of snow/ice a year can probably get away with a dry/wet tire because usually those cities shut down on snow/ice days because they are rarely prepared to deal with it



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[mercedesinfarct]

wow...people get worked up about tire choices? The people who see no value in all seasons are living in their own fantasy land and spend too much time in car forums, and probably don't live in the northeast US. That's not real life. I live in a city with changeable weather, blizzard one day, 50 deg sunny weather the next. I will never buy snow tires because it isn't necessary. roads are cleared quickly, and I have AWD and my Pzero All season plus Pirellis are great in the snow. Good all seasons are a great compromise. Anyone that says anything else simply do not know what they are speaking about.

[pdqgp]

wow...people get worked up about tire choices? The people who see no value in all seasons are living in their own fantasy land and spend too much time in car forums, and probably don't live in the northeast US. That's not real life. I live in a city with changeable weather, blizzard one day, 50 deg sunny weather the next. I will never buy snow tires because it isn't necessary. roads are cleared quickly, and I have AWD and my Pzero All season plus Pirellis are great in the snow. Good all seasons are a great compromise. Anyone that says anything else simply do not know what they are speaking about.

Agree. The biggest benefits are in terms of stopping distances. This is my first season in nearly 20 years that I haven't run a specialized winter set up but tires have come a long long way in that time. My DWS06's performed admirably.