ECU, cluster and new key issue

[jbain2]

Picked up an 03 allroad with ECU immobilizer defeat. Was having a short through the cluster and the car only came with a valet key. I have tried to pair the new factory keys but VCDS just keep showing 0 keys. The cluster that came with the car had a short and was leaving several center console lights on leaving a drain. I copied the bin file from this cluster and then cloned it onto a replacement cluster. I think unfortunately there were codes for intermittent key and ECU communication that I saved and cloned. I am still getting the immobilizer flashing light on the replacement cluster as well as key and ECU codes from a VCDS scan.

Codes


Address 17: Instruments* * * * Labels: 4B0-920-xxx-17.lbl

* *Part No: 4B0 920 981 P

* *Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. VDO D12**

* *Coding: 06264

* *Shop #: WSC 06117**

* *VCID: 336EB0BE01BB3ADCD5-50AC

* *WA1YD64B93N070068* * *AUZ7Z0B2278046


2 Faults Found:

01176 - Key*

* * * * * * 65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent

01177 - Engine Control Unit*

* * * * * * 49-00 - No Communications



In short is there a way to pair new keys to a new cluster to an ECU that has the immobilizer removed without getting codes and the flashing immobilizer light on the cluster?

I have VCDS and Vag Commander.

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[rollerton]

Your ECU doesn't have Immo defeat if the Immobilizer is keeping it from starting- did i get it wrong, the car still starts?. Once Immo is turned off at the ECU it doesn't care what the cluster relationship is, it has a 'good to go' result at each Immo check/ startup, and ignores the cluster message.
Scan your ECU and tell us the errors. But yes, you can use Vagcommander to read the SKC and VagCom to adapt the cluster. The hard part is you need the SKC from the old cluster (which would be stored in the ECU also) and from the new/replacement cluster. It can be difficult to get Vagcommander to communicate with the cluster, but it's should be doable and the procedure is just normal cluster adaptation.
In my experience writing the eeprom from one cluster to another shouldn't cause you any problems, errors or not. The errors aren't in any kind of persistent memory, they should still clear. Your problem is just getting the SKC from the cluster?

[jbain2]

No, I was able to read, save and write a cloned eeprom. The issue is that I can’t actually pair keys with both the cluster and the ECU. My understanding is that the immo defeat prevents the cluster from truly pairing with new keys as the pins are different between the ECU and cluster but because the immo is removed from the ECU it still runs and drives like normal except the damn flashing immobilizer light on the cluster and I can’t truly pair new keys as the cluster won’t recognize them. They work fine with the ECU as well as central convenience as they lock and unlock remotely.


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[rollerton]

It doesn't matter if the PIN (skc) is different between the ECU and cluster, you do the key matching the same way no matter what and afterwards the cluster will acquire the SKC from your current system. IF you wrote the .bin from one cluster to the other then the cluster should have the PIN that was written into the .bin file, what would not match would be the IMMO ID if I understand it correctly.
Is this the procedure you're following? : Immobilizer_III_Key_Matching_(Cluster) (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_Key_Matching_(Cluster))
Did you save the .bin that was originally on the cluster you're trying to install? For whatever reason over-writing a .bin from one cluster to another occasionally can cause some weirdness. But it would probably manifest in an obvious way with lots of errors or something.
But if you can get Vagcommander to read the PIN from the cluster, just follow the directions for the key matching- the IMMO errors WILL NOT prevent key matching, and when you do the key matching you're only matching the keys to the cluster itself, the ECU and cluster have a different adaptation (even though the procedure is technically almost the same). So* technically* there is an adaptation to match the cluster to the ECU and a different one for matching the keys to the cluster.
Would have to know what error you're getting during the adaptation to understand better..

[jbain2]

It doesn't matter if the PIN (skc) is different between the ECU and cluster, you do the key matching the same way no matter what and afterwards the cluster will acquire the SKC from your current system. IF you wrote the .bin from one cluster to the other then the cluster should have the PIN that was written into the .bin file, what would not match would be the IMMO ID if I understand it correctly.
Is this the procedure you're following? : Immobilizer_III_Key_Matching_(Cluster) (http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_Key_Matching_(Cluster))
Did you save the .bin that was originally on the cluster you're trying to install? For whatever reason over-writing a .bin from one cluster to another occasionally can cause some weirdness. But it would probably manifest in an obvious way with lots of errors or something.
But if you can get Vagcommander to read the PIN from the cluster, just follow the directions for the key matching- the IMMO errors WILL NOT prevent key matching, and when you do the key matching you're only matching the keys to the cluster itself, the ECU and cluster have a different adaptation (even though the procedure is technically almost the same). So* technically* there is an adaptation to match the cluster to the ECU and a different one for matching the keys to the cluster.
Would have to know what error you're getting during the adaptation to understand better..

I did try the procedure you linked. When I get to the last step with key adaption the existing number is 3. If I try to change it to anything else I get an error.


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[rollerton]

I did try the procedure you linked. When I get to the last step with key adaption the existing number is 3. If I try to change it to anything else I get an error.


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What is the error? Usually I get to that step and have all my keys I want to match ready. Erase all matched keys by changing the number to ' 0 ' ; once you change the digit to 0 the window should just close, or say 'accepted' or something. You can go back to MBV and check each key to make sure the cluster will allow you to adapt them:


Select]
[17 - Instruments]
[Meas. Blocks - 08]
Select Block 022.
[Go!]
The value in field 3 must be 1. If value is not 1, the key is not capable of being adapted to Immobilizer.
You can check each key in this manner.


. Then use the PIN again to repeat the exact same steps except change the 0 to the number of keys you're adapting, swapping each key for the next as you go. If the cluster accepts the PIN during the Login I have never had any errors past that..

[jbain2]

Cluster is accepting the pin. When I get to the adaption of channel 21 and try to change the number of keys I get the error message seen in attached photo. Won’t let me save. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180425/d3c77cfb4b47022158d21e2952b6ab98.jpg


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[rollerton]

That is a little odd..off the top of my head I have only one suggestion-- when you get to that point do NOT use the little up /dn arrows to change the value in the field.
instead select the '3' and delete it and type in a ' 0 ' to clear the key memory. Years ago someone tipped me off to that; something about the little up/dn arrows in the interface can cause an error.
Besides that...cross your fingers, maybe try writing the old .bin file back to the cluster?

[jbain2]

That is a little odd..off the top of my head I have only one suggestion-- when you get to that point do NOT use the little up /dn arrows to change the value in the field.
instead select the '3' and delete it and type in a ' 0 ' to clear the key memory. Years ago someone tipped me off to that; something about the little up/dn arrows in the interface can cause an error.
Besides that...cross your fingers, maybe try writing the old .bin file back to the cluster?

Thanks. I did try both ways. I can write the old bin back and see what happens.

I have had 2 folks who deal with clusters and tuning tell me that the only way to do this is to bench flash the Immo back onto the ECU and then pair it with the cluster. At that point I could pair keys.


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