"AUDacIouS4" Allroad Prescision Turbo 5558 build

[AUDacIouS4]

Nada! Waiting on Eurodynamic to respond.

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[Nano909]

Nada! Waiting on Eurodynamic to respond.

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Lame.

[AUDacIouS4]

I thought I would throw this out there. So oil change time was due and instead of using Castrol 5w40 synthetic I switched to Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High tech 5w40 and also purchased the Stage 1 fuel/oil additive kit which includes engine flush, fuel cleaner, and engine protector additive. So there is a noticable difference in the sound the turbo makes while spooling at low rpm. Before it sounded like you could hear the bearings gurgling around but now that sound is gone. The engine runs smoother as well. Also, my check engine light would come on daily for PO420 for the high flow cat, it hasn't come on since I changed oil and used the additives about a week ago. I checked the OBD2 readiness and everything was passed except the catalyst. Before the 02, cat, and secondary 02 were always failing the test.

Maybe this stuff helps with oil blowby reaching the cat and 02 sensor? Time will tell. I want to measure my injector pulse widths too and see if they change



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[muffinman92]

I thought I would throw this out there. So oil change time was due and instead of using Castrol 5w40 synthetic I switched to Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High tech 5w40 and also purchased the Stage 1 fuel/oil additive kit which includes engine flush, fuel cleaner, and engine protector additive. So there is a noticable difference in the sound the turbo makes while spooling at low rpm. Before it sounded like you could hear the bearings gurgling around but now that sound is gone. The engine runs smoother as well. Also, my check engine light would come on daily for PO420 for the high flow cat, it hasn't come on since I changed oil and used the additives about a week ago. I checked the OBD2 readiness and everything was passed except the catalyst. Before the 02, cat, and secondary 02 were always failing the test.

Maybe this stuff helps with oil blowby reaching the cat and 02 sensor? Time will tell. I want to measure my injector pulse widths too and see if they change



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Do you have a link to the stage 1 additive kit you used? I am interested in trying it.

[AUDacIouS4]

Do you have a link to the stage 1 additive kit you used? I am interested in trying it.https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/4-cyl-additive-kit-step-1-liqui-moly-lmk0001

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[AUDacIouS4]

It's go time!!!!!! DimSport handheld from Eurodynamic is in the mail. Tuning will begin next week. He's going to utilize the 5th injector for port injection too!! My final tune will be on the dyno locally and the ZF8 will be tuned at the same time. Eurodynamic has a special tool to program the ZF8 that they will mail out for me when the time comes. So stoked!!!!!

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[Perry01]

I bet you are stoked. It’s been a long time coming. I’m looking forward to hearing the results and seeing the dyno chart

[shaunm82]

Awesome man. Glad you will finally get to see a true end result!

[Fraschzilla]

Sub'd. Nice job on the build so far. Gets me pumped to get my build started! May I ask a dumb question as I come from the other side of the AWD world ( Mitsubishi Evo 8 - current garage queen). When we do data logs our throttle percentage always has to read 100%. I noticed yours hits around that 88.2%, is that going to make a difference in the tune? I might not have done my research yet but thought I would ask.

[AUDacIouS4]

Sub'd. Nice job on the build so far. Gets me pumped to get my build started! May I ask a dumb question as I come from the other side of the AWD world ( Mitsubishi Evo 8 - current garage queen). When we do data logs our throttle percentage always has to read 100%. I noticed yours hits around that 88.2%, is that going to make a difference in the tune? I might not have done my research yet but thought I would ask.For Audi, the throttle angle, or throttle percentage is fully open at 88.2 * or 88.2%. Its relative to 0* being closed and 90* being fully open. As long as your theottle angke or % is near 88 its opening fully. The ECU will close the throttle in certain situations to limit airflow, like overboost situations.



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[AUDacIouS4]

Beep Boop Bop Boop97403

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[JLAllroad]

Beep Boop Bop Boop97403

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More needed.....Use your words....


Jeff

[AUDacIouS4]

More needed.....Use your words....


JeffLol!

So Chris@Eurodynamic is working on the base tune now. I had to initialize the handheld and download the stock file off the car to send to Chris.

Since Chris is a programmer, he said he can define the appropriate tables in the ECU to allow the 5th injector to be used as port injection. This has always been the achilles heel of this platform and hopefully the 730cc injector in the throttle body is enough to supplement the DI injectors. I can always swap in a 1200cc injector if needed.

From my previos logs running the(stock turbo) GIAC E85 map on the BT setup, the DI injectors were reaching 7.5-8.0ms at 6200rpm @20psi boost running E40, so they were close to 100% duty cycle. On pump gas they were at 6.5-7.0ms, about 90% duty cycle. I'm not sure exactly what power levels I was at. When on the stock turbo running E40 and 15psi @redline I made 290whp and 220MAF/g's so I would guess being at 270MAFg/'s @20psi is closer to 360whp where the OEM DI injectors reached their max. Introducing the 5th injector would allow the power to get beyond 400whp quite easily. The only caveat is that the tranny is inly rated to 400ft/lbs so I am limited there. Chris will tune the TCU as well so I will wait and see what he thinks can be done with that when we get there.

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[Perry01]

The ZF8 HP55AF is rated for 700 Nm (516 lb-ft.) so you should be fine. It’s a very robust gearbox.

FWIW, at 290 g/s MAF and 20 PSI, my K04 equipped motor put down 341 HP on a DynaPack dyno using pump gas at 83°F for comparison. Using E40 on your set-up and cool ambient temperature, 400 HP may be achievable.

[AUDacIouS4]

The ZF8 HP55AF is rated for 700 Nm (516 lb-ft.) so you should be fine. It’s a very robust gearbox.

FWIW, at 290 g/s MAF and 20 PSI, my K04 equipped motor put down 341 HP on a DynaPack dyno using pump gas at 83°F for comparison. Using E40 on your set-up and cool ambient temperature, 400 HP may be achievable.I thought the ZF8 HP55 unit found in the B8.5 was rated at 550 Nm or 405ft/lbs?? At least that's what was determined on a ZF8 specific thread regarding HP tuning.

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[Perry01]

I thought the ZF8 HP55 unit found in the B8.5 was rated at 550 Nm or 405ft/lbs?? At least that's what was determined on a ZF8 specific thread regarding HP tuning.

Maybe it was the ZF8 HP70 that was rated for 700 Nm of torque.....Either way, you should be fine

[Nano909]

Beep Boop Bop Boop97403

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So to be clear, are you getting dyno tuned, or are you getting e-tuned?

[AUDacIouS4]

So to be clear, are you getting dyno tuned, or are you getting e-tuned?Both. First a series of E-tunes and then a final tune on the dyno. The ZF8 TCU will get tuned on the dyno as well since there is a special tool that is needed to program it.

This DimSport company offers another custom tuning solution for thise interested. They have a handheld tuning device and software for almost every VAG ECU

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[Nano909]

Both. First a series of E-tunes and then a final tune on the dyno. The ZF8 TCU will get tuned on the dyno as well since there is a special tool that is needed to program it.

This DimSport company offers another custom tuning solution for thise interested. They have a handheld tuning device and software for almost every VAG ECU

Sent from my SM-N950U using TapatalkWas e-tuning tedious? This small company wants me to test a drop in turbo that's bigger than a k04 but I'd need a custom tune to run it properly.

[AUDacIouS4]

Was e-tuning tedious? This small company wants me to test a drop in turbo that's bigger than a k04 but I'd need a custom tune to run it properly.I'm still trying to load a base file, there was an issue with the file definition that's getting sorted out which I was told is rare. My tuner is pretty competent and has good communication now.

E-tunes or "road tuning" is super easy. You log certain parameters and send the logs in. The tuner tweaks the maps and sends a new file. Rinse and repeat. A good tuner can dial in a tune with 5 or 6 revisions. It could take a few days or a few weeks, it depends on you and the tuner.

Its really your only option anyway, even a K04 needs a custom tune to reach its full potential.



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[Nano909]

I'm still trying to load a base file, there was an issue with the file definition that's getting sorted out which I was told is rare. My tuner is pretty competent and has good communication now.

E-tunes or "road tuning" is super easy. You log certain parameters and send the logs in. The tuner tweaks the maps and sends a new file. Rinse and repeat. A good tuner can dial in a tune with 5 or 6 revisions. It could take a few days or a few weeks, it depends on you and the tuner.

Its really your only option anyway, even a K04 needs a custom tune to reach its full potential.



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I don't want to deal with all that hassle. Wish there was a local dyno tuner for us in Southern California -.-

[AUDacIouS4]

I don't want to deal with all that hassle. Wish there was a local dyno tuner for us in Southern California -.-It is what it is. You have to put in the extra effort if you want better results than OTS tunes. Its really not that hard, it takes 30 minutes to go out and log a few pulls, 5 minutes to email the files, and 5 minutes to flash the car.
You could wait until I do my dyno tune at Phatbotti tuning in Anaheim, he works with Eurodynamic and they can bench tune your car there. You can reach out to [email protected] and let him know what you need.

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[Nano909]

It is what it is. You have to put in the extra effort if you want better results than OTS tunes. Its really not that hard, it takes 30 minutes to go out and log a few pulls, 5 minutes to email the files, and 5 minutes to flash the car.
You could wait until I do my dyno tune at Phatbotti tuning in Anaheim, he works with Eurodynamic and they can bench tune your car there. You can reach out to [email protected] and let him know what you need.

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When is your dyno tune? That would be ideal.

[AUDacIouS4]

When is your dyno tune? That would be ideal.It depends on when I get through all my e-tunes. I talked with Chris @Eurodynamic and he said he would be willing to fly out for a weekend if we can get a few more people interested. This would include any VW guys as well. Ask around and see if anyone else is interested and we can get something worked out for February. He can tune the ZF8 as well!

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[Nano909]

It depends on when I get through all my e-tunes. I talked with Chris @Eurodynamic and he said he would be willing to fly out for a weekend if we can get a few more people interested. This would include any VW guys as well. Ask around and see if anyone else is interested and we can get something worked out for February. He can tune the ZF8 as well!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)That would be sweet! How many people do you think? Pricing? I can probably get a few people but I'll need that info.

[AUDacIouS4]

That would be sweet! How many people do you think? Pricing? I can probably get a few people but I'll need that info.I'll ask and see. I assume that the more normal stage 1, 2 tunes would be cheaper than something like my setup.



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[Nano909]

I'll ask and see. I assume that the more normal stage 1, 2 tunes would be cheaper than something like my setup.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Yeah an OTS tune is way more convenient. But like you said, even K04's need a custom tune to maximize its potential. But let me know what happens.

[AUDacIouS4]

Eurodynamic is still working on the E-tunes. The guy has had some bouts of the flu this year and been struggling, so I am still on the second revision.
For fueling, I talked with Nostrum as they now make a universal EV14 top feed i injector in a 1000cc that will swap right in on the throttle body injector for the flex fuel motors. That should give me some descent headroom for the DI injectors which are maxed out running 20psi on E35 on this turbo. Not quite sure what power levels I am at as I can't rev past 5000rpm without going into limp mode. I'll report beack once I get the new injector installed and progress in the tuning.

Also, Eurodynamic is willing come to SoCal for the weekend to custom tune anything, so if you or someone you know may be interested please PM me. Thanks!

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[AUDacIouS4]

Nostrum EV14 1000cc injector has arrived for the 5th injector location. Nostrum said this injector is good up to 600hp so we'll see what kind of wizardry Eurodynamic can work into the tune.

I'm headed to Mammoth for the week to go ride the epic dump they just got, 7-11 FEET with more on the way. Winter mode has been engaged. I actually like the OEM 18's now that I dipped them black.
I just bought some Titan7 forged wheels for the cayman and they now are about to release Audi fitments in 19x9.5 et45 and et37.... forged wheels for $1900 anyone? My 18x10 wheel weighs 18.5lbs so I bet their 19x9.5 will be close to that. My current Vossen/work wheels weigh 30lbs. Even with the stock 18's back on that weigh 5lbs less the acceleration is noticable, imagine dropping another 5lbs! 105433105437

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[AUDacIouS4]

Mammoth mode105438

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[JLAllroad]

Mammoth mode105438

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Love the murdered look....want more pics.


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[Allthea]

Whose OEM 18s are those? My allroad doesn't have those. Also just noticed you have the honeycomb grille. Did you do an entire facelift?

I'm going to have to look into those wheels you're talking about. Been meaning to get a set of 19s for winter.

[AUDacIouS4]

Whose OEM 18s are those? My allroad doesn't have those. Also just noticed you have the honeycomb grille. Did you do an entire facelift?

I'm going to have to look into those wheels you're talking about. Been meaning to get a set of 19s for winter.Those 18's are my stock wheels. 2015 Prestige with sport package.

I retrofitted an RS grille, on a scale of 1-10 it was a 7, just because of the nature of working with a curved surface, a flexible bumper cover, and there's no turning back once you start cutting!105447105448105450105451

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[Allthea]

Ahh prestige spec. Well, it all looks fantastic. Really nicely done, especially all murdered out.

Thanks for the tip on the wheels.

[AUDacIouS4]

Nostrum 1000cc injector installed. Harness housing needs to be modified to fit OEM plug.

I did a carbon clean while I had everything apart, car has 67k on the clock. Valves weren't bad, way cleaner than others I've seen with far less miles. I have run water/meth and lots of E85 over the last year and a half but I'm not sure how much of an effect it has on carbon buildup if any.

Time for a tune, port injection anyone?
107004
107005
107006
107008
107009

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[AUDacIouS4]

The Allroad finally made a nice shot of espresso. I installed the catch can in Late August, and finally it produced. It was a nice mix of oil and fuel. I just carbon cleaned the valves and I bet a lot of this sludge is from that.

So catch cans aren't a total waste of money! Who knew?108156108157108158

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[AUDacIouS4]

Is anyone interested in buying the Allroad? I'm at a crossroads....3 kids.....two dogs.... wagon is too small. I need a truck again. I really want a new Raptor. I may just buy a used truck and keep the wagon but I'm throwing around the idea of selling it. I have all the stock parts so I can return the car to whatever state someone wants it

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[vdubjetta02]

Is anyone interested in buying the Allroad? I'm at a crossroads....3 kids.....two dogs.... wagon is too small. I need a truck again. I really want a new Raptor. I may just buy a used truck and keep the wagon but I'm throwing around the idea of selling it. I have all the stock parts so I can return the car to whatever state someone wants it

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Couldn't agree more. I still have my wagon, but it does not cut it as a family car. So I picked up an Atlas last week and am unsure what to do with my wagon.

[A4x]

Why is it that everyone who takes on these big turbo builds ends up dumping their car shortly after? Was this car ever running to the full potential of the big turbo or are tuning and fueling options still the limitation?

[AUDacIouS4]

Why is it that everyone who takes on these big turbo builds ends up dumping their car shortly after? Was this car ever running to the full potential of the big turbo or are tuning and fueling options still the limitation?Lol! I hear ya! Like why did "slowone"dump his car like a month after it was finished?? It's the irony behind everyone who builds a project car of some kind, they finish it and then turn around and sell it!
The Allroad Is getting tuned still, car is fine, fueling is fine now that I have a 1000cc port injector! I haven't heard back from my tuner since February 6th, so I'm just sitting here twiddling my thumbs on the first revision. The wagon is fast already even on these 30lb Vossen tanks! faster than my stage 1 B8 S4 and its only half tuned. It's going to rip once its done.

I just have a growing family and the wagon doesn't cut it for a lot of things. I just went to Mammoth and had my two puppies in the back, 3 car seats, Rocket box full of ski gear, and the inside crammed with miscellaneous gear.....I'm not doing that anymore.
My kids bikes don't fit in the back and I don't want to have 10 different roof rack attachments for each activity in my life.

For most other daily driving its fine though.

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[Depthcharge]

The Toyota Tundra's are pretty awesome as well, if you're looking for any truck for haul-ability.

[AUDacIouS4]

The Toyota Tundra's are pretty awesome as well, if you're looking for any truck for haul-ability.I've always like the Tundra, my Dad had one. I had a big, lifted Nissan Titan crew cab that I sold to get the Allroad, go figure. Definitively not Toyota reliability but I like the newer F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost and with just a flash you are at 430whp/440wtq! And the tundra gets like 14mpg combined like most things with a V8.
I like the utility of a truck and I am going to start towing the Cayman to the track since I want to start running slicks so everything is leading in that direction. I will probably keep the Allroad and just have a truck for those times its needed, which is increasing. I just hate having a car sit in the driveway like a lawn ornament. My B8S4 sat in my driveway for 4 months before it sold and never moved.

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[AUDacIouS4]

Its been a long journey so far having started researching and collecting parts in November 2017, having everything installed and running in May of 2018, and then waiting WAY too long for tuning.........All right, Eurodynamic has scheduled a few hours of "E-tuning" just for me this Saturday. Car should be 90% dialed with only the ZF8 tuning to be done on the dyno and final tune. I'll report back this weekend.

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[AUDacIouS4]

So I started tuning yesterday for a few hours log/flash/log/flash.
currently doing some more logs and new tunes as we speak. on the 11th revision currently.
Car is getting really fast! super stoked not running out of fuel yet and still pushing it on E30

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[JLAllroad]

So I started tuning yesterday for a few hours log/flash/log/flash.
currently doing some more logs and new tunes as we speak. on the 11th revision currently.
Car is getting really fast! super stoked not running out of fuel yet and still pushing it on E30

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So in other words you’re still selling it [emoji12]....I’m really excited to see some of the numbers this generates.


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[Nano909]

So I started tuning yesterday for a few hours log/flash/log/flash.
currently doing some more logs and new tunes as we speak. on the 11th revision currently.
Car is getting really fast! super stoked not running out of fuel yet and still pushing it on E30

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Hit up the B8/B8.5 S4 owners group on Facebook and challenge some of them to race. Tell them you're just K04 and want to see what it can do. Lol, break some hearts before you sell it.

[AUDacIouS4]

Hit up the B8/B8.5 S4 owners group on Facebook and challenge some of them to race. Tell them you're just K04 and want to see what it can do. Lol, break some hearts before you sell it.I'm not selling it, I like it too much, and it's still a great all around car. I just need a truck too!

There is an Audi meet up near me soon, maybe I'll stop over. Or maybe Pacific german wants to challenge me in their B9 'S4' Allroad?

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[Nano909]

I'm not selling it, I like it too much, and it's still a great all around car. I just need a truck too!

There is an Audi meet up near me soon, maybe I'll stop over. Or maybe Pacific german wants to challenge me in their B9 'S4' Allroad?

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What meet? Maybe I'll hit it up.

[AUDacIouS4]

What meet? Maybe I'll hit it up.https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=803198

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[Nano909]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=803198

Sent from my SM-N950U using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)That was today. Lol. We missed it.

[AUDacIouS4]

Quick update: tuning is almost done. I had to tinker with the wastegate connections and N75 because qe were having boost control issues. I'm only running an MBC at the moment, no N75, we are going to work on that later. I'm at E60 and 23psi from 3800-6200rpm and haven't run out of fuel. I dropped down to E30 today so we can tune for more power.

Long story short, my wife's law firm represents a bunch of car companies, K&N being one of them, she has a meeting there on Thursday and they are always giving her free stuff and asked if she wanted to throw her car on the dyno while she's there. On thursday I should have some power figures. I'm not sure what type of dyno they have.

I have another revision or two to do before then but I already hit 325 g/s which the tuner said is about 390whp

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[Allthea]

MBC by choice, or does Audi have some sort of EBCS (Electronic Boost Control Solenoid)? Subaru had this odd pill system for boost control in stock form, but that was usually updated to a 3-port EBCS which the tuner was able to tune.

I'm not sure what N75 is so maybe that's the EBCS I'm thinking about.

[old guy]

MBC by choice, or does Audi have some sort of EBCS (Electronic Boost Control Solenoid)? Subaru had this odd pill system for boost control in stock form, but that was usually updated to a 3-port EBCS which the tuner was able to tune.

I'm not sure what N75 is so maybe that's the EBCS I'm thinking about.

The N75 control valve is essentially the factory electronic boost control valve.

[AUDacIouS4]

MBC by choice, or does Audi have some sort of EBCS (Electronic Boost Control Solenoid)? Subaru had this odd pill system for boost control in stock form, but that was usually updated to a 3-port EBCS which the tuner was able to tune.

I'm not sure what N75 is so maybe that's the EBCS I'm thinking about.The N75 is Audi's 3 port boost solenoid. I was having boost control issues because I had a MBC run in parallel with the N75. For now I have the N75 plugged in to keep the ECU happy but no vacuum lines run to it. The tuner will tune the car on the N75, we just had to iron out the overboost issues first.

I had an 06 WRX, so yes I know about the pill restrictor, which Audi does not use, but the N75 Audi uses is similar to other 3 port solenoids, its a 'pulse style' which isn't as fast as others but ut gets the job done. Some people have issues tuning big turbo setups on them and switch to other 3 or 4 port solenoids.

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[Allthea]

Cool, thank you both for the info.

[Perry01]

Boost control is always going to be tricky with these motors when dialing in a turbo other than stock. My tuner has made over a dozen revisions with my K04 and stock N75 (E-tune). I can only imagine how tricky it is using a Precision turbocharger without the N75 valve. If he’s local and tuning it in a dyno, that’s a different story.

For what it’s worth, my MAF values were 305 g/s and 341 WHP on a DynaPack dyno.

[AUDacIouS4]

Boost control is always going to be tricky with these motors when dialing in a turbo other than stock. My tuner has made over a dozen revisions with my K04 and stock N75 (E-tune). I can only imagine how tricky it is using a Precision turbocharger without the N75 valve. If he’s local and tuning it in a dyno, that’s a different story.

For what it’s worth, my MAF values were 305 g/s and 341 WHP on a DynaPack dyno.340whp on a K04 is pretty awesome! Thats the highest K04 whp I've seen. That sounds about right since that turbo is rated at 375hp.
Your on pump gas though, I'm running Ethanol. When I dynoed on the mustang with the stock stage 1 tune on E60 I was at 215 MAF g/s and 290whp, so thats 1.3 hp per MAFg, as a rough estimate if that holds true then my 330 MAF/G'S . puts me at 425hp. I pull in the same amount of air whether I run pump or Ethanol, the power produced by ethanol far exceeds pump gas at the same air flow

I had a stage 1 B8 S4 and my car is definitely faster than that.

I raced an E63s yesterday and hung right with him until 90, he maybe pulled 2 car length on me.

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[AUDacIouS4]

No K&N dyno today sorry! MY wife's meeting got rescheduled but that's ok since the car still needs some work. Hopefully I'll get on the dyno next week instead.
Full spool at 3900rpm. MBC only running 2680hPa which is 24.5psi with Atmospheric compensation. We might try and bump up to 25-26psi since the fueling is there.
112109
Timing and Fuel are still getting worked on now that boost is under control
112110

MAF g/s peaked at 344 (344*1.3= roughly 445whp) @6200rpm so hopefully once the ZF8 is tuned we can raise the rev limit a few hundred RPM since it's still making power.
112111
There is a rich spot in the fueling at 5500 which is why there is a little hiccup there. I am running E30 right now and may increase to E40 to get the full benefits of E85 since that 5th injector is doing it's job keeping the AFR's right where they should be.

[Perry01]

That big turbo takes a while to spool up. ~4 PSI @ 3,000 RPM and ~7 PSI @ 3,500 RPM seems a bit low as does the MAF values below 4,000 RPM but above 5,000 RPM it must scream. Compared to your supercharged S4, the turbo lag must be a little annoying?

With the cooling properties and higher octane of E30, 12° of timing advance should be easily achieved. An additional 5° of timing advance will give you a big boost in HP.

Looks good so far.

[Nano909]

.

Long story short, my wife's law firm represents a bunch of car companies, K&N being one of them, she has a meeting there on Thursday and they are always giving her free stuff and asked if she wanted to throw her car on the dyno while she's there. On thursday I should have some power figures. I'm not sure what type of dyno they have.

I have another revision or two to do before then but I already hit 325 g/s which the tuner said is about 390whp

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They use a Dynojet. I used to work there years ago in the warehouse. The ~2012 Tundra's intake system is based off one I took.

If you're looking for an AWD dyno, there's one here in San Bernardino you can get a base run on.

[AUDacIouS4]

That big turbo takes a while to spool up. ~4 PSI @ 3,000 RPM and ~7 PSI @ 3,500 RPM seems a bit low as does the MAF values below 4,000 RPM but above 5,000 RPM it must scream. Compared to your supercharged S4, the turbo lag must be a little annoying?

With the cooling properties and higher octane of E30, 12° of timing advance should be easily achieved. An additional 5° of timing advance will give you a big boost in HP.

Looks good so far.http://atgtraining.com/atg-volumetric-efficiency-calculator/

I plugged in your numbers, this calculator is acccurate.
For your 305 g/s it shows 403 crank hp and 342 whp and you made 340whp on the dyno. Your K04 is maxed out, but thats good for others to know that they probably can make more power with a better tune than most OTS maps.

The second chart I plugged in my data on the stock turbo stage 1 tune on E60 at 215 g/s and it show 284 crank hp and 241 whp, but my mustang dyno is 290whp. In that situation I would multiply my MAF g/s by 1.3 to get 290whp running ethanol. The crank estimate given is closer to my actual WHP.

The third chart I plugged in my 344 g/s and it shows 455 crank hp and 387whp but we know this is not accurate for ethanol power. If I multiply by 1.2 - 1.3 I should be somewhere in the range of 420-450whp right now.

112268112269112270

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[Mars2]

I'm with you. My EA888.2 in my VW T6 TSI get 212g/s MAF and on 100% E85 the dyno say's 320 Crank HP.
Sorry in Europe the Dyno most of the time only give you the crank HP

[AUDacIouS4]

I have had two more Sunday tuning sessions and yesterday's was cut short because my MAF sensor is bad. I'll have a new one in a couple days. N75 tuning will be finished next week once I get the new MAF. Running strong on 23psi and E50 before MAF crapped out.
Will report back next week

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[AUDacIouS4]

New MAF sensor. New HUGE K&N air filter, it's twice the size of my other one. Full Spool up is 200rpm sooner @3800rpm. Tuning N75, then I need to line up the final tune and ZF8 tune on the dyno.

Anyone else have their MAF sensor randomly fail?116769116770

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[Party_Marty]

New MAF sensor. New HUGE K&N air filter, it's twice the size of my other one. Full Spool up is 200rpm sooner @3800rpm. Tuning N75, then I need to line up the final tune and ZF8 tune on the dyno.

Anyone else have their MAF sensor randomly fail?116769116770

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I have heard of others MAF sensors randomly failing...any progress on the final tuning?

[AUDacIouS4]

I have heard of others MAF sensors randomly failing...any progress on the final tuning?I have one e-tune session left and that should finish it up. I need to figure out how Eurodynamic is going to tune the trans since he has the tool and he's in PA and I'm in CA.

He's in Vegas at the end of this month and said he wants to come to SoCal as well so if anyone wants a custom tune and ZF8 tune PM me and we'll get some people together at the dyno in Anaheim.

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[AUDacIouS4]

Update 21478.2:
Last road tune session was done last week. Its been so hit or miss with tuning opportunities since my tuner travels A LOT! Dyno day at Auto Union tuning in Huntington Beach next Tuesday.......finally! They use a DynaPack hub dyno. I may or may not get the ZF8 tuned before the dyno, I'm waiting to see what he says. I am running a 22.5psi map right now and there is enough fuel supply to run E50 without issue. We are going to see what power levels we're at on this map and then try a higher boost map to see what happens. I'll keep you posted.

Any guesses on dyno queen numbers? AU Tining said it's similar to a Dynojet.


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[Perry01]

I had mine on a DynaPack hub dyno and the pulls were pretty consistent even though it was hot and the fans were inadequate. If I put down 341WHP/364WTQ with a K04, you should be ~375/375 if tuned correctly.

[AUDacIouS4]

I had mine on a DynaPack hub dyno and the pulls were pretty consistent even though it was hot and the fans were inadequate. If I put down 341WHP/364WTQ with a K04, you should be ~375/375 if tuned correctly.I'm not running a K04 Perry! I'll be well over 400whp with the Precision 5558 thats rated for 600hp, especially since I have port injection and running E85. AU tuning has had lots of K04 cars on their dyno that make 360whp on an A4, he thought with my setup I should be around 420-450whp.

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[bhvrdr]

I'm not running a K04 Perry! I'll be well over 400whp with the Precision 5558 thats rated for 600hp, especially since I have port injection and running E85. AU tuning has had lots of K04 cars on their dyno that make 360whp on an A4, he thought with my setup I should be around 420-450whp.

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Do you have a draggy? Itll save you tons of time and money and be much more telling than a dyno that could be calibrated any which way. Grab a draggy and see your trap speeds and acceleration times. I'd be interested to see how you do.

[AUDacIouS4]

Do you have a draggy? Itll save you tons of time and money and be much more telling than a dyno that could be calibrated any which way. Grab a draggy and see your trap speeds and acceleration times. I'd be interested to see how you do.The dyno is for the final tweaks on the tune. I don't have a Draggy and honestly I don't care about 1/4 mile times and trap speeds, that's not what I built the car for. I will be tracking the Allroad a few times again and I can compare my previous lap times, but no one really seems to care about anything other than straight line performance I guess?? I spend 90% of the time on track above 5000rpm, so top end power is key. For me, to drive this car at its limit on track and be within a few seconds from proper track cars; Cayman, GT3's, S2K, M3, etc. will testify to its performance. I track my Cayman and that will be my benchmark since I drive both cars. The Allroad has a serious disadvantage due to its weight, so If I can reduce that, get some lighter wheels and run slicks I should be pretty competitive. Who doesn't love a fast wagon on track??126946126947126948

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[bhvrdr]

The dyno is for the final tweaks on the tune. I don't have a Draggy and honestly I don't care about 1/4 mile times and trap speeds, that's not what I built the car for. I will be tracking the Allroad a few times again and I can compare my previous lap times, but no one really seems to care about anything other than straight line performance I guess?? For me, to drive this car at its limit on track and be within a few seconds from proper track cars; Cayman, GT3's, S2K, M3, etc. will testify to its performance. I track my Cayman and that will be my benchmark since I drive both cars. The Allroad has a serious disadvantage due to its weight, so If I can reduce that, get some lighter wheels and run slicks I should be pretty competitive. Who doesn't love a fast wagon on track??126946126947126948

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No, I get you definitely. I dont mean to suggest 1/4 mile is the end all be all but rather "acceleration" time is the best indication of the power you are making.

Lap times dont always favor purely power. Its a combination of factors such as traction, driving ability, suspension, weight, weight distribution, etc, etc.

Acceleration from 60-130mph is going to tell you your power top end and the cars resistance to heat soak (like at a back straight of a road course) whereas the 0-60 time on an auto car can tell you about low end torque. A trap speed can tell you about overall horsepower. Its actually the way the "virtual dyno" works. It simply a measure of acceleration.


Just as importantly though, different types of acceleration runs allow you to benchmark your performance against others. With dynos thats almost impossible to do as you are not going to have everyone across the world using the same dyno. With acceleration, you can compare with others and correct for density altitude and its meaningful.

Mike

[AUDacIouS4]

Here is the acceleration in 3rd gear from 4000-6200rpm. For my K03 (290whp/335wtq) it took 7.2 seconds.
I charted a couple different maps I've logged with varying boost and timing levels. The fastest run at 23psi and 9* timing took 2.85 seconds from 4000 to redline. I just used the time stamps in the logs to set the x-axis.
So this setup accelerates 4.3 seconds faster in 3rd gear from 4000rpm to redline.
It will be even faster after the dyno tuning session and ZF8 tune.
I'll double check what speed the car is at from 4000-6200 in 3rd and report back. 126996

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[bhvrdr]

Here is the acceleration in 3rd gear from 4000-6200rpm. For my K03 (290whp/335wtq) it took 7.2 seconds.
I charted a couple different maps I've logged with varying boost and timing levels. The fastest run at 23psi and 9* timing took 2.85 seconds from 4000 to redline. I just used the time stamps in the logs to set the x-axis.
So this setup accelerates 4.3 seconds faster in 3rd gear from 4000rpm to redline.
It will be even faster after the dyno tuning session and ZF8 tune.
I'll double check what speed the car is at from 4000-6200 in 3rd and report back. 126996

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Dude that's pretty darn good. I looked at a recent log and i did 3.1 from 4k to 6200rpm. That was with 93 octane but i had some lucas octane booster in there to so was able to top out at 25 deg timing. Youre making some serious power;)

[muffinman92]

Are you running a larger throttle body?

[AUDacIouS4]

Dude that's pretty darn good. I looked at a recent log and i did 3.1 from 4k to 6200rpm. That was with 93 octane but i had some lucas octane booster in there to so was able to top out at 25 deg timing. Youre making some serious power;)What's your timing and boost curve look like? I ran 14* on the K03 with E60 but that was with 13-14psi at redline. With this setup, the car won't take any more than 9* at 23-24psi with E35-50 in the tank, sometimes only 5-6*. I guess MBT has been reached for me since I'm on E85 too. I still have my meth kit hooked up for cooling, currently just running water only post intercooler so I don't think meth will help. I've logged runs spraying water and results are negligible.

I'm just curious to see the timing and boost curves on different setups. Lots of factors involved obviously, but fuel is the most important.
My lambda values are from 0.850 tapering to 0.810 at 6300rpm for Ethanol at E50. That is roughly 12.5:1 equivalent

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[AUDacIouS4]

Are you running a larger throttle body?Stock throttle body, ECS metal charge piping, 2.5" diameter from turbo to intake manifold.

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[bhvrdr]

What's your timing and boost curve look like? I ran 14* on the K03 with E60 but that was with 13-14psi at redline. With this setup, the car won't take any more than 9* at 23-24psi with E35-50 in the tank, sometimes only 5-6*. I guess MBT has been reached for me since I'm on E85 too. I still have my meth kit hooked up for cooling, currently just running water only post intercooler so I don't think meth will help. I've logged runs spraying water and results are negligible.

I'm just curious to see the timing and boost curves on different setups. Lots of factors involved obviously, but fuel is the most important.
My lambda values are from 0.850 tapering to 0.810 at 6300rpm for Ethanol at E50. That is roughly 12.5:1 equivalent

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I agree its interesting seeing different setups. My camaro ss with a tvs1900 was only doing 12 degrees.

Heres the s5 log on racegas. You can tell its wot in the log by scanning the last column rfpv which is our bypass valve. When you see it zerod out the bypass is closed and its wot.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AUrKxZZ5L-UCyyAovcoQm7agAqHjMdUo/view?usp=drivesdk

Mike

[AUDacIouS4]

Dynapack dyno session complete. One step forward two steps back today. Thankfully Auto Union Tuning has lots of experience with big turbo VW/Audi setups and had some good advice for me and my tuner. The game plan was to start boost at 25psi and taper it up to 29-30psi. This keeps the torque at around 400ft/lbs all the way to redline. At 5250rpm the tq/hp curves cross and it should make 400whp at that rpm. At that point low load high torque is no longer a concern for the stock rods so we begin to increase the boost for more power. We should be upwards of 425whp once the rev limit is raised to 7500rpm. They said the top end can handle 7500rpm without issue. This will also greatly increase the power band by 1300rpm.
Two issues arose,
1. Sputtering from 5300rpm to redline(6200rpm for now) Resolved by swapping the OEM spark plugs, the Bosch BRIEX7, with a 0.0032 gap, to a Bosch F5, which AU said is their go-to plug for anything with more than 20psi and over 300whp. They narrowed the gap to 0.0022 to avoid the spark getting blown out with high boost. Problem solved.
2. The next issue came with exceeding 25psi, the throttle kept closing immediately once the ECU saw more than 25psi. From 4800rpm the throttle was at 40% open:(

The good thing is the boost curve is dialed in 25psi @4200rpm tapering up to 29psi @ 7500rpm. Fueling is fine.

The tuner is working on resolving the throttle issue and then we'll street tune some more to get the timing dialed in. Hopefully get at least 15*-20* of timing up. We'll see. Hopefully I get Project Allroad all wrapped up soon.


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[A4 Centaur]

^ Good to hear! Best luck on the final stages!

[AUDacIouS4]

So we've tried a couple different things to keep the throttle open with no success which means the Tranny is seeing too much torque and closing the throttle. Chris is sending me out a special tool to flash the TCM with and remove the torque limitations.
Right now, the engine torque reaches 465Nm at 4200rpm which is only like 340ft/lbs but it closes the throttle immediately and holds that torque value to redline. The ZF8HP55A is rated to 500Nm or 369ft/lbs, although from my research the BMW guys with the ZF8HP45 rated at 330ft/lbs are tuned making upwards of 450ft/lbs on that variant. I'm not sure how the k04 guys skirt around the transmission torque limitations. I think it has to do with my boost starting at 25psi and increasing(MAP sensor can only see up to 22.5psi) vs a k04 peaking at 24ish and tapering down to 16 so there is only a small time that the ECU thinks its seeing overboost which is anything over 22.5psi. That's my theory anyway.
Next week I'll get the magic flasher and unlock this tranny so stay tuned!

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[tomsgtr]

Are you using a 3 bar map sensor? or any plans too?

[AUDacIouS4]

Are you using a 3 bar map sensor? or any plans too?I asked about that and Chris said I didn't need one. Eurodyne doesn't use them either on all the big turbo GTI tunes, they tune around it. I agree though, it makes more sense to use a 3Bar MAP that can see up to 30psi, but you still have to modify all the boost tables.

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[tomsgtr]

GTI guys are using it on their big turbo builds. When I asked UM if they would tune my car, he said to install a 3 bar map sensor from a golf R and he could do it.

Im curious, what software is your tuner Chris using?

[AUDacIouS4]

GTI guys are using it on their big turbo builds. When I asked UM if they would tune my car, he said to install a 3 bar map sensor from a golf R and he could do it.

Im curious, what software is your tuner Chris using?My tuner is Chris Birgl @CBtuning.net and he works with Eurodynamic out of Philly. He uses DimSport handhelds and software. Its fully customizable and he is also a programmer so is able to do a lot more with it than something like Eurodyne. He modified the maps for the 5th injector and we are using that as port injection which is the only reason I can make the kind of power I am aiming for. He's tweaked the fuel pressure so that I am holding 200bar throughout the power band.

Originally, Jeff at UM said he would tune my car when the shop was fabbing my manifold stuff and then he blew me off. He's not really doing any custom stuff anymore unless its a project that will garner attention, seems he and everyone else are more interested in cranking out OTS tunes all day. Thats where the money is though. He also would not tune me without a big 5th injector swapped in because he said the OEM DI injectors can't even max out the power on a K04 setup.

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[Perry01]

So we've tried a couple different things to keep the throttle open with no success which means the Tranny is seeing too much torque and closing the throttle. Chris is sending me out a special tool to flash the TCM with and remove the torque limitations.
Right now, the engine torque reaches 465Nm at 4200rpm which is only like 340ft/lbs but it closes the throttle immediately and holds that torque value to redline. The ZF8HP55A is rated to 500Nm or 369ft/lbs, although from my research the BMW guys with the ZF8HP45 rated at 330ft/lbs are tuned making upwards of 450ft/lbs on that variant. I'm not sure how the k04 guys skirt around the transmission torque limitations. I think it has to do with my boost starting at 25psi and increasing(MAP sensor can only see up to 22.5psi) vs a k04 peaking at 24ish and tapering down to 16 so there is only a small time that the ECU thinks its seeing overboost which is anything over 22.5psi. That's my theory anyway.
Next week I'll get the magic flasher and unlock this tranny so stay tuned!

I think it’s a boost control issue. I really doubt it’s the trans torque limit intervening. First of all the ZF8 HP55A has a max torque limit of 650 Nm which is 480 ft. lbs.

https://i.postimg.cc/L6xw6wCj/3211-B4-EB-0-EFC-4-BB0-A303-0373-C84-E740-C.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

My tuner and I were struggling with the same issue of throttle cut off when boost neared 25 psi. Boost control is tricky to manage tuning an (OEM) K04, I can only imagine how difficult it would be tuning a big turbo.

You shouldn’t really need more than 25 PSI of boost. Your big turbo is pushing a much larger volume of air so the pressure it forces it into the motor does it need to be as high.

BTW, not all K04’s taper to 16 psi up top. Mine holds 20 PSI to 6300 RPM shift points.

https://i.postimg.cc/Vk2xnR4v/D994-B68-D-77-D7-443-A-BFA4-60-FCB0-CF4-E66.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[AUDacIouS4]

I think it’s a boost control issue. I really doubt it’s the trans torque limit intervening. First of all the ZF8 HP55A has a max torque limit of 650 Nm which is 480 ft. lbs.

https://i.postimg.cc/L6xw6wCj/3211-B4-EB-0-EFC-4-BB0-A303-0373-C84-E740-C.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

My tuner and I were struggling with the same issue of throttle cut off when boost neared 25 psi. Boost control is tricky to manage tuning an (OEM) K04, I can only imagine how difficult it would be tuning a big turbo.

You shouldn’t really need more than 25 PSI of boost. Your big turbo is pushing a much larger volume of air so the pressure it forces it into the motor does it need to be as high.

BTW, not all K04’s taper to 16 psi up top. Mine holds 20 PSI to 6300 RPM shift points.

https://i.postimg.cc/Vk2xnR4v/D994-B68-D-77-D7-443-A-BFA4-60-FCB0-CF4-E66.jpg (https://postimages.org/)That chart only shows input torque from the engine, what is the output torque? I found that value already in the auto trans module as pictured, it shows "615Nm max engine torque from flywheel". From reading some threads on the C7 stuff, they are having the same issues since the output torque is far less than input torque and the trans will go into "slip mode" to not overheat the clutch packs. We want it to go into full lock mode which mine is not doing. There is a ton of info about this on HP Tuners threads regarding the ZF8.

You could be right, maybe just a 3Bar Golf R MAP sensor will solve the issue.

I also found this auto upshift deactivate feature from an APR bulletin.

https://www.goapr.com/support/zf8upshift.html

It works for me, I can rev past 7000rpm and the throttle stays open until 5500rpm and its at 28psi right there.

AU tuning has a lot of experience with big turbo mk6/7 and A4 stuff, they said a big turbo like mine is happiest at 25+ psi and that 30 psi is ok. They have the B9 A4/Allroad running 30psi on Cobb tunes right now,...... crazy right?

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[AUDacIouS4]

From auto trans module130022

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[Perry01]

That chart only shows input torque from the engine, what is the output torque? I found that value already in the auto trans module as pictured, it shows "615Nm max engine torque from flywheel". From reading some threads on the C7 stuff, they are having the same issues since the output torque is far less than input torque and the trans will go into "slip mode" to not overheat the clutch packs. We want it to go into full lock mode which mine is not doing. There is a ton of info about this on HP Tuners threads regarding the ZF8.

You could be right, maybe just a 3Bar Golf R MAP sensor will solve the issue.

I also found this auto upshift deactivate feature from an APR bulletin.

https://www.goapr.com/support/zf8upshift.html

It works for me, I can rev past 7000rpm and the throttle stays open until 5500rpm and its at 28psi right there.

To confirm your suspicions, you should try logging “requested transmission torque” in the transmission control module (not under engine). That's really the most important one, as that's where transmission intervention will show up. If you are exceeding that value (doubtful) you will have throttle closure because the gearbox decides it's had enough. It will stay closed until the gearbox is satisfied that danger has passed.

I have no need to disable auto upshift via VCDS. I have HP Tuners software and have tuned the TCU myself. I tried increasing shift points above 6400 RPM, but there is little to gain with the K04 beyond that.

My tuner said torque intervention on a 2.0T is unlikely. Granted, he does have to spoof torque readings down on the RS7 (with the ZF8) to stop intervention for sure. But that’s a 4.0T not a 2.0T.

[AUDacIouS4]

To confirm your suspicions, you should try logging “requested transmission torque” in the transmission control module (not under engine). That's really the most important one, as that's where transmission intervention will show up. If you are exceeding that value (doubtful) you will have throttle closure because the gearbox decides it's had enough. It will stay closed until the gearbox is satisfied that danger has passed.

I have no need to disable auto upshift via VCDS. I have HP Tuners software and have tuned the TCU myself. I tried increasing shift points above 6400 RPM, but there is little to gain with the K04 beyond that.

My tuner said torque intervention on a 2.0T is unlikely. Granted, he does have to spoof torque readings down on the RS7 (with the ZF8) to stop intervention for sure. But that’s a 4.0T not a 2.0T.'Requested transmission torque' is in engine module only and its a fixed number, mine is set at 1000Nm. I tried logging that already. Check this out. You can clearly see the orange line is engine torque at the flywheel and the blue line is a parameter in the trans module 'engine specified torque with transmission intervention'. The trans TCM is limiting torque. Its not a boost issue, my tuner confirmed he has the trans seeing wastegate duty cycle instead of boost, thats why I dont need a 3Bar MAP.130048

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[Perry01]

I just went out and did a quick log (WOT @4k RPM to avoid kickdown). There’s not much difference between ours except my maximum permissible engine torque is 753 Newton meters instead of your 615 Nm.

https://i.postimg.cc/02ZvQv3x/4-CB94-FEC-2-BE5-4554-B005-FF0-FEDDB49-AD.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/pXPxRrsq/05541183-C2-E6-4-E73-AA05-367-AC349377-D.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/BndVZwq4/B4-B41-B17-564-E-457-D-863-E-451-DBE8-CA913.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[AUDacIouS4]

I just went out and did a quick log. There’s not much difference between ours except my maximum permissible engine torque is 753 Newton meters instead of your 615 Nm.

https://i.postimg.cc/02ZvQv3x/4-CB94-FEC-2-BE5-4554-B005-FF0-FEDDB49-AD.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/pXPxRrsq/05541183-C2-E6-4-E73-AA05-367-AC349377-D.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/BndVZwq4/B4-B41-B17-564-E-457-D-863-E-451-DBE8-CA913.jpg (https://postimages.org/)Thanks for the info! Mine is still limiting torque. Our values are very close which tells me my trannie is not playing ball. I found another parameter in the trans which is an environmental torque adjustment long term and its set at 305Nm, not sure what its for exactly. And another parameter set to adjust -30Nm which makes pefect sense since I peak at 460Nm at 4200rpm, where the throttle used to close, but if you add the 30Nm adjustment to the actual your really close to the 499Nm output limit of the trans. It refuses to allow higher torque and just closes the throttle to limit airflow.
The trans is killing my power because this is a torque based system. The ECU uses both MAF and speed density airflow models because they directly correlate to torque. Audi uses a torque-based engine control system. The transmission TCM functions to remove torque and its closing the throttle once my torque hits my adjusted 499Nm which is the trans max output torque (different from input torque on your chart). Until I tune the trans TCM I am limited to 460Nm engine torque

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[AUDacIouS4]

Another way of looking at the torque problem. At 270% load the throttle closes every time, here it happened at 4900rpm, from that point on the ECU tries to limit load to 250ish130075

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[Perry01]

Output limit of transmission? I’m not sure what you’re talking about. The TCU is monitoring (and is concerned about) input torque from the engine/flywheel. When your TCU detects more input torque (from the engine/flywheel) than is permissible, it cuts throttle. Your flywheel torque values are nowhere near your maximum permissible of 615 Nm. So I don’t understand why there is trans. intervention. And I wonder why my maximum permissible torque value is 753 Nm compared to your 615 Nm?

[AUDacIouS4]

Output limit of transmission? I’m not sure what you’re talking about. The TCU is monitoring (and is concerned about) input torque from the engine/flywheel. When your TCU detects more input torque (from the engine/flywheel) than is permissible, it cuts throttle. Your flywheel torque values are nowhere near your maximum permissible of 615 Nm. So I don’t understand why there is trans. intervention. And I wonder why my maximum permissible torque value is 753 Nm compared to your 615 Nm?All good questions! That's what I'm still trying to figure out. I know the C7 guys said there are two torque ratings on the ZF trans, input and output, and in order to increase the allowable torque you have to change the output tables. There was a thread I was reading and Arin from APR had chimed i. And was talking about it and how APR had cracked the TCU on the ZF8. I think that there are other variables and limiters in place and the ECU is playing it safe like it's programmed too. I don't know how close to the limits it would realistically allow given the myriad of torque management parameters there are. Its just a matter of finding the right limiters and tables to modify. Whatever OBD tool Chris is sending me can download the TCM data in 5 minutes and flash it in 2. He's also tuning my Cayman with the same tool so it's pretty powerful whatever it is. He's still convinced it's the trans since he's tried so many things with the throttle and boost already that haven't worked.

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[Perry01]

All good questions! That's what I'm still trying to figure out. I know the C7 guys said there are two torque ratings on the ZF trans, input and output, and in order to increase the allowable torque you have to change the output tables. I think that there are other variables and limiters in place and the ECU is playing it safe like it's programmed too. I don't know how close to the limits it would realistically allow given the myriad of torque management parameters there are. Its just a matter of finding the right limiters and tables to modify. Whatever OBD tool Chris is sending me can download the TCM data in 5 minutes and flash it in 2. He's also tuning my Cayman with the same tool so it's pretty powerful whatever it is. He's still convinced it's the trans since he's tried so many things with the throttle and boost already that haven't worked.

I hope he gets it figured out, I was the beta tester on IE’s K04 file and we went through a similar issue with throttle closure and it turned out to be boost control.

Also, the literature above on the ZF8 HP55A shows a max input of 650 Nm and when you say that the output is limited to 499 Nm doesn’t make sense.

[AUDacIouS4]

I hope he gets it figured out, I was the beta tester on IE’s K04 file and we went through a similar issue with throttle closure and it turned out to be boost control.

Also, the literature above on the ZF8 HP55A shows a max input of 650 Nm and when you say that the output is limited to 499 Nm doesn’t make sense.My 'limitation torque' is 499Nm. That's why when my engine torque hits 460Nm and you add that 30Nm adjustment I found you're at or near the 499Nm limit at 4500rpm and the throttle closes.
Can you do me a favor and tell me what the ID is for your parameter labeled 'maximum permissible engine torque'. You can see my parameter is labeled IDE00358 for 'limitation torque', just wondering if its the same thing with a different name
130079

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[Perry01]

My 'limitation torque' is 499Nm. Can you do me a favor and tell me what the ID is for your parameter labeled 'maximum permissible engine torque'. You can see my parameter is labeled IDE00358 for 'limitation torque', just wondering if its the same thing with a different name
130079

That 499 Nm is a value measured by your ECU. Your TCU is what cuts the throttle when it sees too much permissible torque to avoid possible damage to the transmission. I don’t see that parameter listed in the TCU.

Maximum permissible engine torque: loc. IDE00545 in Auto Trans.

Yours, as shown below is 616 Nm.

https://i.postimg.cc/bNYmktJ4/A75-DCA94-8854-45-E6-92-F9-09-ED2-DB67-E48.jpg (https://postimg.cc/xq7GSqLP)

[tomsgtr]

I hope you get it figured out. I'm hoping my build doesn't end up like this. What was the part number of your port injector?

[AUDacIouS4]

I hope you get it figured out. I'm hoping my build doesn't end up like this. What was the part number of your port injector?Any project like this requires patience and perseverance. It is what it is. You just have to be willing.

The Nostrum injector is an EV14 universal, its called 'black magic' and I have the 1000cc rated For 600hp. They can give you the injector specs for your tuner when you order.

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[tomsgtr]

Any project like this requires patience and perseverance. It is what it is. You just have to be willing.

The Nostrum injector is an EV14 universal, its called 'black magic' and I have the 1000cc rated For 600hp. They can give you the injector specs for your tuner when you order.

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Yeah I’m hoping your tuner figures it out so maybe I can get him to tune my car if UM doesn’t follow through.

[Traptalk]

I contacted real street and talked with moe.

He put together a invoice for me for my 2011 a4 Quattro with zf8, also mentioned I wanted to keep and modify my integrated engineering hfc/downpipe:

-precision 5531 .64 a/r, t3 exhaust manifold, 4 bolt down pipe flange, 55mm billet compressor wheel
Part # 003-5531.T3.63.4B

- atp turbo manifold(for transverse but he thinks they are the same) , t3 flanged, bottom mount turbo, top mount external Wastegate
Part # ATP-VVW-182

- ATP Relocation Adapter for stock (electric) diverter Valve 2.0T FSI/TSI
Part # ATP-VVW-212

- precision discharge 4 bolt weld flange (downpipe adapter)
Part # 074-3005

- Precision PW39 39mm 2 Bolt Wastegate (all springs)
Part # 085-1000

- Precision Turbo Steel 1/8 inch to -4AN Oil Inlet Fitting
Part # 047-3039

- Precision Turbo O-Ring -10 AN to -10 AN Fitting Black
Part # 047-3009

- Precision Turbo and Engine T3 T4 Oil Drain Flange -10AN
Part # 047-2008

Subtotal of 1661.44 but after a slight discount the total is 1594.98

I really can’t believe the price is lower than a Hpa hybrid k04.
I’m really considering this option. Plan on running a custom tune from Vast performance and they believe they can tune my ZF8 as well.

Will an external top mounted wastegate fit under the hood and with the engine cover?
I know to get the most out of the turbo would require fueling upgrades but for 1500$ + tune and intake can you make
More power then a k04 with this on medium to low boost?

[AUDacIouS4]

I contacted real street and talked with moe.

He put together a invoice for me for my 2011 a4 Quattro with zf8, also mentioned I wanted to keep and modify my integrated engineering hfc/downpipe:

-precision 5531 .64 a/r, t3 exhaust manifold, 4 bolt down pipe flange, 55mm billet compressor wheel
Part # 003-5531.T3.63.4B

- atp turbo manifold(for transverse but he thinks they are the same) , t3 flanged, bottom mount turbo, top mount external Wastegate
Part # ATP-VVW-182

- ATP Relocation Adapter for stock (electric) diverter Valve 2.0T FSI/TSI
Part # ATP-VVW-212

- precision discharge 4 bolt weld flange (downpipe adapter)
Part # 074-3005

- Precision PW39 39mm 2 Bolt Wastegate (all springs)
Part # 085-1000

- Precision Turbo Steel 1/8 inch to -4AN Oil Inlet Fitting
Part # 047-3039

- Precision Turbo O-Ring -10 AN to -10 AN Fitting Black
Part # 047-3009

- Precision Turbo and Engine T3 T4 Oil Drain Flange -10AN
Part # 047-2008

Subtotal of 1661.44 but after a slight discount the total is 1594.98

I really can’t believe the price is lower than a Hpa hybrid k04.
I’m really considering this option. Plan on running a custom tune from Vast performance and they believe they can tune my ZF8 as well.

Will an external top mounted wastegate fit under the hood and with the engine cover?
I know to get the most out of the turbo would require fueling upgrades but for 1500$ + tune and intake can you make
More power then a k04 with this on medium to low boost?Real Street tries to sell you an ATP manifold because its one of their vendors! I already told Chris@realstreet not to sell that piece of junk to anybody, thankfully he returned mine. Contact JDL design on Instagram/Facebook and get a V-banded B7 A4 manifold like mine. Trust me, that's your only option. Its twice as much as the ATP, but you won't hinder flow (the MK6 guys already figured that out for us)and V-bands are so nice to have. You'll have far more adjustability with v-bands.

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[AUDacIouS4]

So a friend of mine showed me this software called ECUxPlot, it takes all the .csv log data and plots it. You can plot any parameter you log which is really nice. Thankfully I had lots of logs from my recent dyno session so I plotted the data. By default it was setup for a B8 S4 so I had to tweak one or two parameters for the plotted log data to match the dyno plots. I then plotted my last dyno run against my latest revision with the rev limiter removed. Keep in mind we were experimenting on the dyno and the throttle was closing at 4300rpm. I have a snapshot of the last two dyno runs to show that this software is accurate. Torque is just a function of rpm vs time so its not all that different than how the dyno calculates load/torque.

Solid lines=dyno run
Dotted lines = current revision
Blue = wtq
Red = whp
Light Blue line = throttle
Purple = boost in hPa (2500 = 23psi, 3000 =29psi)

Peak dyno numbers: throttle closed at 4600rpm
323wtq@ 4300rpm /330whp at 5000rpm

Peak numbers on current tune: throttle closed @5090 rpm

4750rpm = 437wtq/402whp
6000rpm = 398wtq/450whp

Once Chris gets the throttle to stay open that torque curve should flatten out and stay at around 400ftlbs. Its weird that after the power dip with the throttle closure, it ramps back up and keeps climbing. Also, its not really tuned beyond 6200rpm so the car is freaking out above that rpm right now.


130510130511

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[Traptalk]

Real Street tries to sell you an ATP manifold because its one of their vendors! I already told Chris@realstreet not to sell that piece of junk to anybody, thankfully he returned mine. Contact JDL design on Instagram/Facebook and get a V-banded B7 A4 manifold like mine. Trust me, that's your only option. Its twice as much as the ATP, but you won't hinder flow (the MK6 guys already figured that out for us)and V-bands are so nice to have. You'll have far more adjustability with v-bands.

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I saw on jdl they have a top mount tubular manifold will that fit or do I need a custom bottom mount?

[AUDacIouS4]

I saw on jdl they have a top mount tubular manifold will that fit or do I need a custom bottom mount?That JDL top mount is what I used, see my first post on this thread for pics. I need to update some photos on there. You'll need a Precision 46mm vband wastegate for the JDl manifold too. The rest of the oil lines and fittings you can get from Real Street. Look over my parts list on the first post. Also, I have a brand new ATP DV relocater that I didn't end up using I can sell you for cheap since the shop that did my fab work swapped in a mechanical DV.

Having everything v-banded will allow you to adjust everything once its mounted which you will have to do. The fab shop had to adjust the turbo inlet flange angle on my manifold so that the turbo could fit alongside the inner fender wall so be advised! If your turbo and housing is smaller than mine you should be fine though. [emoji109]

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[Traptalk]

That JDL top mount is what I used, see my first post on this thread for pics. I need to update some photos on there. You'll need a Precision 46mm vband wastegate for the JDl manifold too. The rest of the oil lines and fittings you can get from Real Street. Look over my parts list on the first post. Also, I have a brand new ATP DV relocater that I didn't end up using I can sell you for cheap since the shop that did my fab work swapped in a mechanical DV.

Having everything v-banded will allow you to adjust everything once its mounted which you will have to do. The fab shop had to adjust the turbo inlet flange angle on my manifold so that the turbo could fit alongside the inner fender wall so be advised! If your turbo and housing is smaller than mine you should be fine though. [emoji109]

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Moe said Vband isn’t available on the 5531 it’s a t3 exhaust flange and 4 bolt downpipe

[Traptalk]

Yours sits in the fender? That’s far from stock location so that’s a big manifold. Was there pics of finished install?

[AUDacIouS4]

Yours sits in the fender? That’s far from stock location so that’s a big manifold. Was there pics of finished install?Its a tight fit with mine, mostly because JDL used a B7 A4 jig to make his manifold. There's plenty of room for a top mount turbo in the engine bay though if JDL can tweak the turbo inlet flange or move it forward in the engine bay an inch. But if you are getting the the t3 flange that will mount slightly different.

I found this pic from JDL, this is my manifold next to a t3 style130522130523130524

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[Traptalk]

Would my downpipe need that extra pipe running from the precision external wastegate?

[AUDacIouS4]

Would my downpipe need that extra pipe running from the precision external wastegate?Yes, its a dump tube that recirculates the exhaust gas into the downpipe instead of venting it to the atmosphere. Any competent exhaust shop/welder can handle that. You can fab up your own turbo inlet too, just look around online here: siliconeintakes.com

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[Traptalk]

Is that really needed tho I mean the internal wastegate just kinda dumps lol

[AUDacIouS4]

Is that really needed tho I mean the internal wastegate just kinda dumps lolIf your turbo has an internal wastegate then no.

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[Traptalk]

Meant vs the stock k03

[AUDacIouS4]

I got my Bosch 3Bar MAP sensor, OEM part number 038906051C So Chris is going to set up the tune for that. Hopefully @Perry01 is right about the throttle closing issue.

I did find another parameter that limits torque, its in engine module labeled 'limitation: accelerator pedal' and its set at 420 Nm. So there are at least 4 torque limits I've found so far, hopefully raising these limits will allow the throttle to stay open.

I've been reading about tuning the ZF8 and you are not supposed to just raise the torque limits and call it a day. There are something like 15-20 shift patterns and they are all set off throttle and load. The correct way to program it is to alter the shift points to allow for more torque and to accomodate the torque/load changes from the increased power levels especially in my case when the power band has been shifted up by 1000rpm

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[tomsgtr]

Right on! Good luck. I just ordered the HPtuners MPV2 so I can tune my transmission when everything is done. I'm hoping there's more support on the engine side for tuning too.

[AUDacIouS4]

Found some helpful ZF8 tips on a Bimmer forum.

Still trying to coordinate getting my tuner to send me his flashloader tool to tune the trans. Hopefully within the next week. That should be the last piece of the puzzle to keep the throttle open. 133216133217

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[tomsgtr]

Found some helpful ZF8 tips on a Bimmer forum.

Still trying to coordinate getting my tuner to send me his flashloader tool to tune the trans. Hopefully within the next week. That should be the last piece of the puzzle to keep the throttle open. 133216133217

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interesting read. awaiting your results

[AUDacIouS4]

Super duper ZF8 flasher tool coming next Tuesday, the light at the end if the tunnel is so close


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[tomsgtr]

Hurry up already!

[Perry01]

This build is approaching two years in length. I have to applaud you guys for taking the plunge but there have been only a handful of Big Turbo builds here and I’m not sure if anyone ever had theirs dialed in right. The easy part is bolting on the Big Turbo, the difficult part has been tuning it to perfection. I’m looking forward to seeing positive results from AUDacIouS4 and tomsgtr’s BT builds.

[AUDacIouS4]

I agree, the hardware, with the exception of the manifold were fairly easy to source. The fueling had always been an issue until Nostrum released DI injectors, and I'm my case a universal injector which I can utilize for port injection. The tuning however remains to be the biggest hurdle. I had my build done and running off GIAC ko3 tune for months waiting for UM and then my current tuner to make a simple commitment. In my situation it's just waiting on people to get the job done. I could easily have been enjoying my completed project for the last year if people didn't keep flaking out on me. The reality for someone in my situation getting e-tuned from half way across the country is I am not high on that person's priority list. I knew that going into my agreement with the current tuner but I was just thankful that somebody was willing and able. I'm hoping that my project helps others pursue something similar because this motor/trans has so much potential. If someone has a little patience the result will be rewarding. I certainly didn't think I would wait a year to get tuned, yes it's ridiculous! Hopefully nobody has to go through what I did. At the very least, my build and some of the other BT builds are laying out a road map for others to follow and it will show what can be done.
Perry, you went through some of the same issues with getting your setup dialed in as well and I think it just shows that it takes work and patience to pursue anything beyond an OTS solution.

Chris
This build is approaching two years in length. I have to applaud you guys for taking the plunge but there have been only a handful of Big Turbo builds here and I’m not sure if anyone ever had theirs dialed in right. The easy part is bolting on the Big Turbo, the difficult part has been tuning it to perfection. I’m looking forward to seeing positive results from AUDacIouS4 and tomsgtr’s BT builds.

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[Chatchie]

Just picked up an allroad and I'm interested in seeing how you make out with the ZF tune. Coming from a dsg car I miss the quick shifts but concede that the ZF is smoother for daily driving. If we could get a little snappier shifting, both up and down, I'd be pretty happy with the ZF.

[cybernet99]

This build is approaching two years in length. I have to applaud you guys for taking the plunge but there have been only a handful of Big Turbo builds here and I’m not sure if anyone ever had theirs dialed in right. The easy part is bolting on the Big Turbo, the difficult part has been tuning it to perfection. I’m looking forward to seeing positive results from AUDacIouS4 and tomsgtr’s BT builds.

I’ve been seriously following this build along with a few others. I’ll be starting my serious adventure this winter with a custom turbo manifold etc.

I have learned a lot from @audacious4 and others before me. But still getting a tune is proving to be challenging.




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[AUDacIouS4]

I’ve been seriously following this build along with a few others. I’ll be starting my serious adventure this winter with a custom turbo manifold etc.

I have learned a lot from @audacious4 and others before me. But still getting a tune is proving to be challenging.




Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy tuner, Chris Birgle @CBTuning is really knowledgeable and knows what he's doing. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him to anyone looking for custom tunes. You can follow him on IG @Eurodynamic. He travels a lot during the summer months to most major cities and does live tuning. He just hates California so I couldn't coerse him in coming here yet, ha ha! He can do some cool stuff, like switchable maps using your Drive select modes too as well as tuning the ZF8.

Tool will be here tomorrow, I'll report back this weekend.

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[cybernet99]

My tuner, Chris Birgle @CBTuning is really knowledgeable and knows what he's doing. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him to anyone looking for custom tunes. You can follow him on IG @Eurodynamic. He travels a lot during the summer months to most major cities and does live tuning. He just hates California so I couldn't coerse him in coming here yet, ha ha! He can do some cool stuff, like switchable maps using your Drive select modes too as well as tuning the ZF8.

Tool will be here tomorrow, I'll report back this weekend.

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Fantastic, thanks for the details for Chris. Looking forward to more updates! :)

[AUDacIouS4]

Some people have asked about spark plugs I was using. AU Tuning recommend these and are the 'go-to' plug for many Big Turbo applications.
They are Bosch Platinum R1
Bosch #F5DPOR
Gapped at 0.022
The smaller gap is used to avoid spark blowout with high boost140437140438140439

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[tomsgtr]

Thanks for the info Chris.

[whats77inaname]

I was wondering had you ever considered moving to a syvecs ECU? They supposedly now have a plug and play ECU that's supposed to be for all VAG TFSI engines:

https://www.syvecs.com/product/audi-s3-tfsi-tsi/

I know the guys @ IrozMotorsport.com tune them, as well. Might want to reach out to them and see if they could perhaps be of any service and/or if this is something that's feasible.

[Mars2]

Syvec only work with tfsi with ME9 ECU from EA113 engine not EA888.1 and EA888.2 that have MED17.1 ECU

Med17.1 is a platform where almost nothing is develop here in Europe.
Med 17.1 is only found on G6 GTI and AUDI B8 2.0 TFSI and B8.5 USA MARKET

when you leave in europe why buy a A G6 GTI when you can get a G6 GTI edition that has got from factory a EA113 and K04-064 or a Seat Cupra that also has a EA113 with K04
Why buy a A4 B8 2.0Tfsi when you can get a B8.5 that got a EA888.3 or a B8 3.0 TDI that with stage 1 make almost 400hp and 700NM

I have one of those EA888.2 here in europe and I'm Jealous of the other platform like ME9, SIMOS18, MED17.1.5 that got all the cool stuff:

- Multimap with switch to different Map though the cruise control switch
- Implementation of Ethanol sensor that automatically switch Map depending on ethanol content
- MPI activation. With 4 or 5 port injector's

[AUDacIouS4]

I' got the 'magic box' this weekend and we started tuning the ZF8 with MagicPro software. Crisper/ firmer shifts, doesn't feel like its slipping anymore. Redline set at 7200, still working on the fueling and boost up top. Should be done today or tomorrow. Pulls hard. Full spool at 4200. Boost is 27psi tapering up to 30. I am running E42 right now and fueling is holding up.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190910/0801281006f859953482692cce2ef23f.jpg

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[tomsgtr]

I need to get in contact with your tuner. I’m not happy with my end result or tune.

[Perry01]

I' got the 'magic box' this weekend and we started tuning the ZF8 with MagicPro software. Crisper/ firmer shifts, doesn't feel like its slipping anymore. Redline set at 7200, still working on the fueling and boost up top.

Was throttle closure a result of torque intervention or boost control?

[AUDacIouS4]

Little hiccup, had a crispy vacuum line off the wastegate that was leaking so I fixed that and now we're back on track. I hate that all the vacuum lines have to be so close to the turbo and manifold, it's just a ticking time bomb for boost leaks!

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[AUDacIouS4]

Was throttle closure a result of torque intervention or boost control?Torque intervention. My OEM MAP has always read up to 3000mBar which means it is a 3Bar MAP. That was never the problem.

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[AUDacIouS4]

Was throttle closure a result of torque intervention or boost control?We tried the 3Bar MAP too, it doesn't change anything. There is a hard boost limit built into the ECU which has to be addressed. We just tuned boost to hover around 2550mBar, or 23psi, to keep the throttle open. I posted power plots below.

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[AUDacIouS4]

Here is the final tune. ZF8 has been tuned, firmer line pressures and rev limit raised to 7000rpm.

Fueling:
With stock LPFP
Autotech HPFP upgrade
stock DI injectors
Nostrum 1000cc port injector (throttle body)
50/50 Water/meth- single post intercooler nozzle
Running E40 as that is the limit of what the HPFP seems to handle, and the DI injectors are maxed out at any higher ethanol content at these power levels. Second graph shows HPFP in purple

Boost is 24 psi
9-10* timing

Peak MAF/g's were 411 @ 6800rpm

I am hooking up the 2nd meth nozzle at the throttle body again to keep the power up on the top end and will run some more logs.

I am very happy with the results! Look at that torque curve!

I will schedule some power pulls on the same mustang dyno I used before on my stock turbo setup.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191009/2780364722f925fd0d63d68359c2548f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191009/6734b245ab00a10f1365c521204dd5e2.jpg

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[jbain2]

It’s hard to believe that the stock LPFP is that robust!

Nice work!


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[AUDacIouS4]

It’s hard to believe that the stock LPFP is that robust!

Nice work!


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHere is the graph of the LPFP, it holds 505kPa to redline. I was told by a local VW tuning shop that the pump runs out when it drops closer to 420kPa which I am far from.

I have to give thanks to Chris Birgl at Cbtuning.net. or IG is Eurodynamic. He worked some wizardry with the fuel pressures.

With a set of Nostrum DI injectors the sky is the limit! With a built short block you could easily make 550whp on 26-28psi running ethanol.

144674

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[Allthea]

Wow that thing must feel like a freight train! Nice results

[whats77inaname]

Nice! Good job on this!

[a5matt401]

Wow! I heard they do good work over there. My dealership recommended him if I wanna make some more power than just a going with a ko4.


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[Perry01]

There is a hard boost limit built into the ECU which has to be addressed. We just tuned boost to hover around 2550mBar, or 23psi, to keep the throttle open.

Throttle closure and boost control. That’s what I was saying all along. Excessive boost induces throttle closure. My tuner also had to limit boost to 24 PSI. Your turbocharger, on the other hand pushes a much higher volume of air into your motor to create more HP.

[AUDacIouS4]

Throttle closure and boost control. That’s what I was saying all along. Excessive boost induces throttle closure. My tuner also had to limit boost to 24 PSI. Your turbocharger, on the other hand pushes a much higher volume of air into your motor to create more HP.From what I understand, it's a hard limit built into the ECU, not something that is easily overcome. My tuner had the ECU ignoring boost actual and looking at wastegate duty cycle but the throttle still closes as pictured below. We could cheat a little bit and tried boost files that started at 27psi but it caused throttle closures at or before 6000rpm. The ECU only ignored boost actual up to a certain point.
Interestingly though, the car makes more power running less boost anyway. Right now it peaks at 24.5 and tapers to 21.5. I just ordered two different sized meth nozzles after talking to Scott@USRT. I was running a 375ml post intercooler. I swapped in a 175ml post intercooler and ran a 100ml at the throttle body because that's what I had. I just ordered a 125ml for the throttle body and a 225ml for post intercooler. This setup is more for octane and less cooling. With new nozzles I'm going to log this file and see how the fueling is after 6k then we'll try and keep boost at 24 the whole way.
Like you said, it's all about volume and air flow, and every setup is different.
Big turbo 24psi >>>K04 24psi

I'm just thankful this project is completed and that the community can benefit from what I've learned. Just to see what's possible with one extra port fuel injector is pretty cool. Granted I am running ethanol, but only E40. Running meth isn't mandatory either, although helpful, as I just turned the meth on for this last file.
I am going to get a pump file for CA 91 too so I will compare power levels once that's completed.

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[cybernet99]

From what I understand, it's a hard limit built into the ECU, not something that is easily overcome. My tuner had the ECU ignoring boost actual and looking at wastegate duty cycle but the throttle still closes as pictured below. We could cheat a little bit and tried boost files that started at 27psi but it caused throttle closures at or before 6000rpm. The ECU only ignored boost actual up to a certain point.
Interestingly though, the car makes more power running less boost anyway. Right now it peaks at 24.5 and tapers to 21.5. I just ordered two different sized meth nozzles after talking to Scott@USRT. I was running a 375ml post intercooler. I swapped in a 175ml post intercooler and ran a 100ml at the throttle body because that's what I had. I just ordered a 125ml for the throttle body and a 225ml for post intercooler. This setup is more for octane and less cooling. With new nozzles I'm going to log this file and see how the fueling is after 6k then we'll try and keep boost at 24 the whole way.
Like you said, it's all about volume and air flow, and every setup is different.
Big turbo 24psi >>>K04 24psi

I'm just thankful this project is completed and that the community can benefit from what I've learned. Just to see what's possible with one extra port fuel injector is pretty cool. Granted I am running ethanol, but only E40. Running meth isn't mandatory either, although helpful, as I just turned the meth on for this last file.
I am going to get a pump file for CA 91 too so I will compare power levels once that's completed.

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Well done, I'm just getting started on my big turbo build. Still lots of unanswered ideas rolling around in my head … Hope to build it through the winter, and then start getting it tuned in the early spring. :) Your posts have been extremely helpful, thanks!!!

[tomsgtr]

Glad you got everything up and running. Looks like you’re running the same boost as me. Jeff @UM couldn’t get more boost outta my car either. I’m also stuck at 22 psi. Glad you completed your build.

[Chatchie]

That thing must pull like crazy. Would you mind sharing your TCU tune? I'm going to try to tune my own and I'd like to see what values you adjust in the HP tuner software.

[AUDacIouS4]

Glad you got everything up and running. Looks like you’re running the same boost as me. Jeff @UM couldn’t get more boost outta my car either. I’m also stuck at 22 psi. Glad you completed your build.

I don't know if that boost hard limit can be overcome. Both Jeff@UM and Chris@Eurodynamic are programmer nerds that deal with zeros and ones all day and neither one of them can get these cars to boost over 22.5psi with throttle closure. I just don't think it's possible without a standalone. My tuner has tried a dozen different ways to trick the ECU and nothing has worked. It does make me wonder if it is even worth building this motor if I can't turn up the boost anyway without a stand alone ECU. I am waiting to hear back from my tuner about more boost and timing since my setup is only running 9* on E40 when it should be running at least 15*-20*. I have been having issues with the ECU gradually pulling boost away. I logged yesterday and my boost WGDC are the same but the boost is only 20psi tapering to 18?? It's like this ECU just starts protesting after a couple hundred miles of driving. Weird???

[AUDacIouS4]

That thing must pull like crazy. Would you mind sharing your TCU tune? I'm going to try to tune my own and I'd like to see what values you adjust in the HP tuner software.

I don't have any info on that, sorry! My tuner sent me a magic box and I just flashed a file. I do need some more tweaking though since I am making more power now since the flash, my trans is slipping and lazy again.

[cybernet99]

I'm seriously considering going standalone ECU for my build ... I think it's the only way to truly realize the full potential of a big turbo and adequate fueling ...

I've got a built motor, full IE crate engine, my target is 650hp to the wheels, so 725/750 at the crank. I'm bloody determined to make it happen .. so watching your thread has been eye opening ... and VERY helpful! so, thank you for going full bore ahead of me. Through your efforts, it looks like the only way to reach that kind of power, is to go with a dedicated standalone ECU.

I've got a buyer for my existing IE intake, and will replace it with the IE version 2.0 of the intake with the fuel rail and four additional injector bungs. So, fueling as far as injectors shouldn't be a limiting factor.

The turbo I've decided on is a Borg Warner 8474, with a custom built stainless steel exhaust manifold (top mount). I'm already running a Tilton Racing Twin-Disc race Clutch/PP/LWFW that will be able to handle 850hp/TQ, so that will hold. (took a bit to get used to, but now that I'm used to it, it's a very streetable setup) When I get the new IE intake, I'll send it to Pro-Meth to install their water/meth injector setup into the manifold using their system.

I continue to watch and follow the thread with great interest... my big build starts mid winter ... wish me luck. I'll document and share my wins and failures for others that go down this path to learn from.

This is how we as a community grow! :)

[thatauditech34]

Are you still using the stock n75?


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[AUDacIouS4]

Are you still using the stock n75?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYes sir! It hasn't been a problem as far as I know. All the mk6 big turbo guys still run them. I definitely did not like the the drivability when running an MBC though. I'm not sure what to do about boost, 2650mBar(24psi) seems to be the absolute ceiling for the ECU, it's just not programmed to deal with any values higher than that. Unless my tuner figures something out I don't see more boost possible with this ECU

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[AUDacIouS4]

So I went to the same mustang dyno I was on with My stock turbo stage 2. The car couldn't make boost, it was peaking at 18psi?? I thought because the fan was pointed at the center radiator and my intake is in the passenger fog grille that it just wasn't getting air. I hung my head and went home.

I did a pressurized leak down test, no leaks. After some testing and logging it turns out the wastegate diaphragm is leaking. I took everything apart because the wastegate is under the downpipe. I decided to wrap the manifold and downpipe in DEI Titanium Wrap. We'll see if it helps spool up. And my turbo blanket looks like mice ate it. Check out the inside of my magnaflow HFC, The material has shifted. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191118/9e425bf681021d0ba0e9bb2cb8e768a4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191118/c8d263b4bf5fc537f8ee63bbb009e485.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191118/c0045ece1b119b487bdf9005a6b7c27e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191118/fe2044a9c658883abce1126bfa963ca2.jpg

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[Mars2]

So I went to the same mustang dyno I was on with My stock turbo stage 2. The car couldn't make boost, it was peaking at 18psi?? I thought because the fan was pointed at the center radiator and my intake is in the passenger fog grille that it just wasn't getting air. I hung my head and went home.

I did a pressurized leak down test, no leaks. After some testing and logging it turns out the wastegate diaphragm is leaking. I took everything apart because the wastegate is under the downpipe. I decided to wrap the manifold and downpipe in DEI Titanium Wrap. We'll see if it helps spool up. And my turbo blanket looks like mice ate it. Check out the inside of my magnaflow HFC, The material has shifted. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191118/9e425bf681021d0ba0e9bb2cb8e768a4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191118/c8d263b4bf5fc537f8ee63bbb009e485.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191118/c0045ece1b119b487bdf9005a6b7c27e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191118/fe2044a9c658883abce1126bfa963ca2.jpg

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I had two magna flow HFC going this way. Even worse on one as it went side ways making my engine so hot that a valve just broke. dead engine
Now If I go for HFC I only go for HJS expansive but high quality thye build a lot of OEM cat for car maker.

[AUDacIouS4]

My tuner thinks he's figured out how to get the boost above 24psi without the throttle closing. We'll see if it works and then I'll head back to the dyno for some comparison numbers.

I did find the perfect wine to celebrate the completion of project Allroad https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191219/544229c5647ee157f00fd6c7559a40b9.jpg

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[cybernet99]

My tuner thinks he's figured out how to get the boost above 24psi without the throttle closing. We'll see if it works and then I'll head back to the dyno for some comparison numbers.

I did find the perfect wine to celebrate the completion of project Allroad https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191219/544229c5647ee157f00fd6c7559a40b9.jpg

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LOL! Awesome, well played Sir!

I just finished ordering my BW EFR8474 ...
With IE intake with updated fuel rail and four additional injector bungs, and a ProMeth direct injection Water Meth kit.

It’s going to be a busy winter... :)



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[tomsgtr]

LOL! Awesome, well played Sir!

I just finished ordering my BW EFR8474 ...
With IE intake with updated fuel rail and four additional injector bungs, and a ProMeth direct injection Water Meth kit.

It’s going to be a busy winter... :)



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How are you going to control the extra injectors ? Is your car flex fuel ?

[Mars2]

How are you going to control the extra injectors ? Is your car flex fuel ?

with a bit of modification this could fit. Not cheap!
http://www.stratifiedauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=209_303&products_id=992

[cybernet99]

How are you going to control the extra injectors ? Is your car flex fuel ?

My car isn't flex fuel, and there is no flex fuel readily available up here in the North. So, can only tune for 94 octane, which is very common up here.

I'm still exploring options for the fueling ... microsquirt is one option that IE pointed out to control the second set of injectors. I'll be talking with a tuner in Toronto about all of the fueling options, Eurocharged Canada ... I've seen their street driven RS3 run consistent 9.2's .... So they know how to make power ...

[cybernet99]

My tuner thinks he's figured out how to get the boost above 24psi without the throttle closing. We'll see if it works and then I'll head back to the dyno for some comparison numbers.

I did find the perfect wine to celebrate the completion of project Allroad https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191219/544229c5647ee157f00fd6c7559a40b9.jpg

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Are you getting above 24lbs of boost now? :)

Your Avant looks Sweeeet! :)

[AUDacIouS4]

Are you getting above 24lbs of boost now? :)

Your Avant looks Sweeeet! :)Yes and no on the boost. Here is what happens right now. In the first pic, We are hitting 2650mbar at 4200rpm and tapering boost down to keep the throttle open. As you can see, if boost goes above 2650mbar the throttle closes momentarily until the boost is below the threshold again. In the second pic is a revision from a few weeks ago and the boost curve was just below 2650mbar until 5200rpm when it tapers up. We have since lowered the boost in favor of more timing since that is where the best power is with E85.

Blue line: throttle
Red line: WGDC%
Purple: Boost Actual
my atmospheric pressure is 980mbar (14.2psi atmospheric)
So: 2650mbar x 0.0145 = 38.425psi

38.425psi relative - 14.2 psi atmospheric = 24.2psi absolute, which is the ECU boost limit.

Last pic is boost and timing. It's running 18* advance at 6750rpm and 21psihttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191227/d6291c11848f61f593ccfef9f7e0d01f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191227/1059aa2b1f8c330ebdddaf3cb7f766ed.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191227/a62705a87adb7895f29c9a29e041d444.jpg

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[AUDacIouS4]

I have had problems with my ECS cutout leaking at the slip joints so I am taking it out. My car has a burble tune and occasionally shoots fireballs, ha ha. I had the midpipe off today and the cutout butterfly is bent(from fireballs?) And the Magnaflow HFC honeycomb material is gone? It disintegrated!!! That explains why my car got so much louder!!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191227/ead55fd7a539f80f44ed1f05c46d1979.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191227/bf962c9f4c146ff88fa878fe691f04df.jpg

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[cybernet99]

I have had problems with my ECS cutout leaking at the slip joints so I am taking it out. My car has a burble tune and occasionally shoots fireballs, ha ha. I had the midpipe off today and the cutout butterfly is bent(from fireballs?) And the Magnaflow HFC honeycomb material is gone? It disintegrated!!! That explains why my car got so much louder!!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191227/ead55fd7a539f80f44ed1f05c46d1979.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191227/bf962c9f4c146ff88fa878fe691f04df.jpg

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LOL! Awesome.

How much louder is it without the HFC? I’m getting a new catless 3” SS turbo back exhaust fabricated at the same time as the turbo manifold.

Wondering just how much louder it will be. Thinking about running the Vibrant Racing titanium exhaust muffler with it. Not sure what the combination will end up creating.


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[AUDacIouS4]

LOL! Awesome.

How much louder is it without the HFC? I’m getting a new catless 3” SS turbo back exhaust fabricated at the same time as the turbo manifold.

Wondering just how much louder it will be. Thinking about running the Vibrant Racing titanium exhaust muffler with it. Not sure what the combination will end up creating.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDrone is bad from 2500-3300rpm with catless downpipe, although not as bad as my B8 S4 was!! I do have a Vibrant bottle resonator in the mid pipe which helps a little. My whole exhaust sound changed with the big turbo setup though, especially having the equal length tubular manifold.

I will make a video today.

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[JLAllroad]

How many maf g/s are pulling in at this point?

Are you running your logs at 3k+ to salvage the (stock?) internals or because that is where all the action is at?


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[cybernet99]

Fantastic love to hear what it sounds like! I’m running the vibrant extra quiet resonators on my Benz. It’s loud but not crazy loud. Sounds good. Still has cats on the Benz though and 12.5:1 compression. :)


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[AUDacIouS4]

How many maf g/s are pulling in at this point?

Are you running your logs at 3k+ to salvage the (stock?) internals or because that is where all the action is at?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)MAF/G'S peaked at 425 @7000rpm

Full spool is 4000 so I just start the log at 3. I still have a descent power band.
Fantastic love to hear what it sounds like! I’m running the vibrant extra quiet resonators on my Benz. It’s loud but not crazy loud. Sounds good. Still has cats on the Benz though and 12.5:1 compression. :)


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI got caught up with life but I did take some gopro footage, I just have to edit it. I will try and make some in car gauge cluster vids if some pulls soon.

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[A4x]

How will you pass smog with this?

[AUDacIouS4]

How will you pass smog with this?Ha ha ha! I know right?
I am going to get a new 200 cell cat because I don't want to pollute the environment for 5whp. Its louder and stinky sans cat but thankfully Ethanol burns much cleaner than gas. My thinking is to have the OEM cat v-banded and installed in place of the HFC which will pass OBD2 readiness. "Hyde16" on VWVortex has a MK6 big turbo making over 550whp that passed Jersey smog with the stock cat, not Cali I know, but it's possible. The ironic thing is that the car produces far less C02 emissions with a leaner tune than stock eeven with a HFC. It's been proven that quality 200 cell cats scrub enough crap out off the exhaust anyway so I don't understand all the Cali C.A.R.B drama.
I can install the engine cover and the top half of the airbox which will look pretty OEM to most people. I have been told that a lot of smog shops here in Socal don't bother popping the hood anymore. I don't need smog until next October. I do have an address in Mono County since I used to live in Mammoth so I may just register it there, that way I can smog it once for life and be done with it.

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[JLAllroad]

MAF/G'S peaked at 425 @7000rpm

Full spool is 4000 so I just start the log at 3. I still have a descent power band. I got caught up with life but I did take some gopro footage, I just have to edit it. I will try and make some in car gauge cluster vids if some pulls soon.

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That has to be getting close to 500 at the crank....when’s the next time that it hits the dyno or the track?


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[AUDacIouS4]

That has to be getting close to 500 at the crank....when’s the next time that it hits the dyno or the track?


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I haven't corresponded with my tuner for a month, ha ha. He was looking into different maps to try and raise the boost and I just got busy. The car runs really well on E40 and meth so if he can get the boost up from 21psi to redline that could make some more power since I haven't tapped out the fuel yet. Once he finishes I'll hit the mustang dyno again. I am anxious to get on the track with the Allroad again. 42 Draft designs makes adapters to go from 5x130 to 5x112 so I can run my Cayman track wheels with Hoosier R7 on the Allroad.

[JLAllroad]

I haven't corresponded with my tuner for a month, ha ha. He was looking into different maps to try and raise the boost and I just got busy. The car runs really well on E40 and meth so if he can get the boost up from 21psi to redline that could make some more power since I haven't tapped out the fuel yet. Once he finishes I'll hit the mustang dyno again. I am anxious to get on the track with the Allroad again. 42 Draft designs makes adapters to go from 5x130 to 5x112 so I can run my Cayman track wheels with Hoosier R7 on the Allroad.

Any updates?

Also wanted to ask what you spec for your track days FTG height, alignment settings, I see the Pagid track pads.


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[AUDacIouS4]

Any updates?

Also wanted to ask what you spec for your track days FTG height, alignment settings, I see the Pagid track pads.


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Long time no see! These Corona days are a blur! My tuner had another customer come in with the same CPMB motor as me in an B8.5 A4 with a big turbo. That car has a built motor, custom port injection, and is running Porsche 991.2 injectors from the 911 Turbo in place of the DI injectors. So much for Nostrum replacements since the 991 injectors flow a significant amount more. I am waiting to hear back whether those are plug and play or require some modifications. Either way, that sounds like a stout solution for the fuel supply issues we run into on these motors. That is also why I have to wait while he works out the kinks with that car and then he will put the finishing touches on mine.

For the track, most of the tracks were all shut down here until earlier in June, but I usually take June-October off since it's too hot in the desert. Been there, done that, on 115* track days. No thanks!

For the Allroad on track, your alignment depends on your tires. If you have taller, stiffer sidewalls, less negative camber is needed. If your on street tires, then you will want more negative camber to avoid the sidewall rolling over and wearing the outside shoulder. Most tires have a wear indicator on the shoulder, pay attention to how close the wear is to that mark and work from there. You will want to play around with tire pressures, but your fronts will get hotter since there is more weight over them and they heat up under braking. Run 1-2 psi more in the fronts. Typicall for street tires, you want your hot pressures on track to be your cold street pressure, for example on the Michelin PS4S, your cold street temps are in the mid 35-38psi so aim for hot pressures in the same range.

I run H&R sway bars with the front set to stiff. My KWV3 coilovers are running at street height with an inch of rake towards the front which helps balance the car during braking and cornering as well as provide some extra downforce. The KWV3 are 3 way adjustable so I increase the stiffness on the bump and rebound 2 clicks on track days. For a car that is AWD and understeers (AUDI) you will want the front slightly stiffer than the rear to help induce oversteer, and in our case gives the car a more neutral balance. For Brakes, I ran the Pagid RST3 in the front on the Brembo 4 pots and on the rear (Stock S4) I ran Pagid RS19 which is an endurance pad. The pad compounds were staggered to balance out the front brake bias. There are a lot of options for pads with the Brembos, not so much for the OEM calipers. A dedicated track pad is worth the investment, our cars our heavy and eat brakes! I burned through a set of brand new StopTech sport pads in a day before, so don't make my mistake. Lastly, run any brake fluid with a higher boiling point like Castrol SRF or Motul equivalent. I change out fluid twice a year. On my Cayman, I can get 5-6 Track days out of fluid before I change it. That should give you a good start, it really depends on your driving style and your equipment. Tires are THE most important part of the track day and brake pads are second. Then it all comes down to the driver. Have fun out there and be safe! If I can be of any more help let me know.

[Mars2]

Would you share what year and model of the 911 Turbo those injector come from?

[AUDacIouS4]

Would you share what year and model of the 911 Turbo those injector come from?I double checked, they are running 997.2 Turbo injectors which they found to flow more than the RS4 injectors that VW guys used. Looking at the latest Nostrum data for their FSI drop in Replacements, they max out at around 400whp running an E85 blend so these 997 2 injectors would provide much more headroom. In addition to a HPFP upgrade, you will need Torqbyte controller and a LPFP.





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[Mars2]

Thank's a Lot. I will study about those.

I have AEM 340L/H E85 LPFP it take less than 16 Amp and my OEm controller is good for 20 Amp. I also have a stage 2 VIS HPFP running 197 Bar of pressure
https://www.aemelectronics.com/sites/default/files/aem-intank-fuel-pumps-hp-vs-pressure-50-1000-1200-1215-1220_0.jpg
https://www.aemelectronics.com/sites/default/files/aem-intank-fuel-pumps-flow-current-vs-pressure-50-1000-1200-1215-1220_0.jpg

I have both on since two years. I'm maxing out my B8.5 Flex fuel injector's with my Hybrid IHI JH5 on 100%E85.
That is my I'm looking to more flowing DI injector's or 5Th injector option.

[Mars2]

Is it those injector's ?
https://www.fvd.net/de-en/9A111022231/high-pressure-fuel-injector-9912-turbo-turbo-s-s-exclusive-gt2-rs.html

[cybernet99]

I double checked, they are running 997.2 Turbo injectors which they found to flow more than the RS4 injectors that VW guys used. Looking at the latest Nostrum data for their FSI drop in Replacements, they max out at around 400whp running an E85 blend so these 997 2 injectors would provide much more headroom. In addition to a HPFP upgrade, you will need Torqbyte controller and a LPFP.
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I'm still heavily in progress on my big turbo build, but decided to go with the Mabotech Direct Injectors (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1682063412023382). Their website is still a work in progress, Frank seems to run everything from the FB group mostly. Frank Mabo will be tuning my build once it is put together. Soon, very soon ... :) They flow much more than the factory A4 injectors, I think they are based off of the S3/RS3 injectors and opened up further. I'm very curious about the Porsche injectors though! I'm also running the IE intake with 4 additional port injectors at 890cc each ... so fueling should not be a big problem for a while ... BUT, ... I won't be using the port injectors until I go "full send" with a Syvecs stand alone ECU next year. I see you have wrapped your VVT sensors/solenoids, are they holding up ok with the heat? I'm about to =do the same. My turbo is top mount, and it is awfully close to the sensors/wiring (https://www.instagram.com/alterda4).

[JLAllroad]

Long time no see! These Corona days are a blur! My tuner had another customer come in with the same CPMB motor as me in an B8.5 A4 with a big turbo. That car has a built motor, custom port injection, and is running Porsche 991.2 injectors from the 911 Turbo in place of the DI injectors. So much for Nostrum replacements since the 991 injectors flow a significant amount more. I am waiting to hear back whether those are plug and play or require some modifications. Either way, that sounds like a stout solution for the fuel supply issues we run into on these motors. That is also why I have to wait while he works out the kinks with that car and then he will put the finishing touches on mine.

For the track, most of the tracks were all shut down here until earlier in June, but I usually take June-October off since it's too hot in the desert. Been there, done that, on 115* track days. No thanks!

For the Allroad on track, your alignment depends on your tires. If you have taller, stiffer sidewalls, less negative camber is needed. If your on street tires, then you will want more negative camber to avoid the sidewall rolling over and wearing the outside shoulder. Most tires have a wear indicator on the shoulder, pay attention to how close the wear is to that mark and work from there. You will want to play around with tire pressures, but your fronts will get hotter since there is more weight over them and they heat up under braking. Run 1-2 psi more in the fronts. Typicall for street tires, you want your hot pressures on track to be your cold street pressure, for example on the Michelin PS4S, your cold street temps are in the mid 35-38psi so aim for hot pressures in the same range.

I run H&R sway bars with the front set to stiff. My KWV3 coilovers are running at street height with an inch of rake towards the front which helps balance the car during braking and cornering as well as provide some extra downforce. The KWV3 are 3 way adjustable so I increase the stiffness on the bump and rebound 2 clicks on track days. For a car that is AWD and understeers (AUDI) you will want the front slightly stiffer than the rear to help induce oversteer, and in our case gives the car a more neutral balance. For Brakes, I ran the Pagid RST3 in the front on the Brembo 4 pots and on the rear (Stock S4) I ran Pagid RS19 which is an endurance pad. The pad compounds were staggered to balance out the front brake bias. There are a lot of options for pads with the Brembos, not so much for the OEM calipers. A dedicated track pad is worth the investment, our cars our heavy and eat brakes! I burned through a set of brand new StopTech sport pads in a day before, so don't make my mistake. Lastly, run any brake fluid with a higher boiling point like Castrol SRF or Motul equivalent. I change out fluid twice a year. On my Cayman, I can get 5-6 Track days out of fluid before I change it. That should give you a good start, it really depends on your driving style and your equipment. Tires are THE most important part of the track day and brake pads are second. Then it all comes down to the driver. Have fun out there and be safe! If I can be of any more help let me know.

First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to provide all of this input.

Suspension, I’m running Bilsteins PSS10’s, 6 of 10 clicks all around for the street on Michelin AS3+, 255/35/20, I have found these to be much softer (almost comfortable) vs the Conti DW06 of the same size that I was running previously at 4clicks. I’m at ~26.5 FTG with a CR15, 034 RSB, Moog end links all around.

A few notes,

Tires/alignment-I definitely need at least a summer tire for the track, I would believe a 4000 lb car would benefit from the extra contact patch of a 275. I’m pretty sure this will require more camber than the -1.5 I’m currently running to keep from rubbing on a 20x10 et25.

I do feel when pushing it that the front could drop an extra inch and also add some dampening as the nose starts oscillating a bit.

That said, it has always been my understanding that firming the rear and stiffening the RSB would help coax the back end around a bit vs doing the same to the front which would encourage more understeer?

Brakes, we have the same set up. I cannot say enough about the Brembo 4 pots, there’s a reason that they find their way on so many performance oriented cars (wtf Audi), the 330x22 rears are just added insurance.

I just need to land on some track pads. I’m inclined to go with the RST1(front)/RST2(rear) given how hard the heavy Allroad, and a track novice, is on brakes. Edit..but after further research these would be too aggressive for anything short of a dedicated track tire.

I’m currently just APR stg2 but the E85 torque is fun on the slower twistiies and it surprises cars it shouldn’t at 5300-10k ft in Colorado.




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[Mars2]

Audacious. I know you have also been blocked by the ECU limiting to max 24 PSI before getting throttle closing.
So Just FYI in case you don't know already. JB4 is coming out this month with their JB4 box that allow you to adjust your Boost however you want it.
By stacking it to your tune the ECU will still see only the boost from your ECU tune but on JB4 you can adjust to higher boost by two different way.
- Increase of boost compare to ECU tune at each 500 Rpm like for exemple: +3PSI at 3000 rpm...... +5PSI at 6000 rpm ........... +4 PSI at 7000rpm
- Absoluet boost your set the number you want at each 500 Rpm. This scenario will not be anymore control by load so you will have to do different boost number in Winter and summer to avoid knocking.

You might already know all this.
If not search on G7 GTI forum for JB4 stacking.
I did some testing stacking a Race Chip piggy back on MAP to go around the 24 psi limitation it worked got 31 PSI with ECU thinking it's boosting at 23 PSI. No throttle closing
But race chip don't have Boost control per rpm. So it's not very nice.

[Mars2]

Are those Porsche injector the one every body fit on EA113 for 100% E85 tune? At least it's what they do here in France.
If so how do you fit those to a EA888.2? Do you get the injector seat milled to EA888.2 seat or do you get your head milled to copy EA113 injector hole shape?

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=10518.0
https://www.turboperformance.shop/en/turbo-technology/injectors/porsche/36397/injector-complete-kit-for-porsche-911-turbo-3.8l-h6-vag-2.0-tfsi-ea113

[neanyoe]

I just want to let you know that after reading your entire build thread, I'm inspired and impressed! Not having the technical background for a build like this, makes me want to learn (along the way) as I build my allroad. Recently purchased a 13' premium plus and absolutely loving it. No kids and only 1 dog so I think it'll stick around for awhile ;) appreciate you sharing as much as you have. Allroad still owned by you?

[AUDacIouS4]

Hey, thanks for the kind words. I am glad my journey has benefitted others. Yes, I still own the car, no plans to sell it anytime soon. Unless a Sport Turismo Turbo S ever becomes reasonably priced.

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[AUDacIouS4]

Are those Porsche injector the one every body fit on EA113 for 100% E85 tune? At least it's what they do here in France.
If so how do you fit those to a EA888.2? Do you get the injector seat milled to EA888.2 seat or do you get your head milled to copy EA113 injector hole shape?

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=10518.0
https://www.turboperformance.shop/en/turbo-technology/injectors/porsche/36397/injector-complete-kit-for-porsche-911-turbo-3.8l-h6-vag-2.0-tfsi-ea113That I don't know. I will ask more about them next time I talk to the man.

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[tomsgtr]

Any thoughts on JB4 stacking?

[AUDacIouS4]

Any thoughts on JB4 stacking?Isn't it basically a boost controller? I ran a MBC for a brief period while the tuner worked on a few things. I didn't feel like the car ran very well unless you were full throttle. There is no boost control from the ECU in most throttle conditions, its either on or off.

The JB4 is a piggy back, its just trying to trick the signal inputs to the ECU. The Bosch MED 17 (B8.5 ECU) is too complex and is a load based system with many parameters used to control boost. I wouldn't risk it personally. My tuner spent a lot of time dialing in boost for me and I know its not that easy.

Maybe someone else has experience with it

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[Mars2]

NO JB4 is not a 100% a MBC.
It's much more evolved than that.

It's connect to OBDII, MAP and N75.

It's using all this to make the MED17.1 think it's boosting like it should.
Then you can create your own boost curve by putting target number each increment of 500rpm.
You can choose between 2 boost strategy:
- First add boost value to each 500rpm above/under what MED17.1 is asking for Like for exemple +3psi at 4000 rpm, +3.5 psi at 4500 rpm.... So your boost is still ruled by load. Winter less boost as summer ( just to make it simple
- Second you can set target boost. Like 28 Psi at 4000rpm , 28.5 PSI at 4500 rpm.... Then your boost is not any more ruled by Load your are on N75 target boost rule. With this setup you will need to adjust different boost curve compare to outside temp ( summer/winter) to avoid knock.

On top of that JB4 also take in the equation the position of throttle so it' kind of a 3D Map ( Boost, RPM, Throttle body %) but you don't have access to the TB% when you map it tis a JB4 algorithm that manage it. they often adjust it at each upgrade.

JB4 allow you to bypass the 24PSI hard limit of MED17.1.
JB4 als alllos you to log your car and check the effect of more boost on AFR, Timing.......... The only thing it's really missing is the ability to log MAF to see if increasing the boost continue to give you better G/s or if you start to hit te limit of your hard wear set up.

I should get mine this week to stack it over my stage 3 E85 tune and will start to play with it. If I did good home work playing with "Racechip" and cracking pressure i think a very good boost curve for my set up( hybrid IHI) should be 28 to 30 psi peak tapering to 22-23 PSI at 6200 rpm

[chriscaduto]

Hey guys, let me start off by saying I love everything about this build, I mean who wouldn't love a spool bus??? Now with that being said, I too have a B8.5 Allroad, I have owned the car for about a year now and a few months ago she started to have some very very bad oil consumption issues. It would go through a quart of oil about every 300ish miles, so that is when i decided to bite the bullet and build the motor.

Parts:
-IE Connecting Rods
-JE Stock Size and Stock Compression Pistons
-Calico Coated ACL Rod Bearings
-IE Valve Springs + Retainers
-ARP Head Studs
-CTS "BOSS" GTX2867R Turbo kit
-CTS Front Mount Intercooler

The motor is currently back in the car and is running great! My only issue is now getting a tune for it becuase it is currently running on the stock tune. The car runs and drives fine for normal daily use but anything over 13lb of boost the car goes into limp mode and the overboost fault code comes on. I was curious to get your guys opinion on possibly getting a KO4 tune temporarily for the car in hopes that it would handle the boost better than the stock tune currently on the car while i wait for some answers on a custom tune. United motorsports turned me down completely, IE doesnt offer any custom tuning, GIAC said they wont tune it, Malone Tuning says they dont offer anything for the B8.5 Allroads, Maestro doesnt offer anything for the B8.5's. All the tuning companies that offer "Custom Tuning" are basically turning me down because they dont support the platform. I have no problem asking every single tuner in the united stated to help me, but for the time being until find someone to tune it would a KO4 work for me as a temporary fix? I'm not looking to make crazy power or anything i just figured a KO4 tune would be better off than a stock tune.

[cybernet99]

Hey guys, let me start off by saying I love everything about this build, I mean who wouldn't love a spool bus??? Now with that being said, I too have a B8.5 Allroad, I have owned the car for about a year now and a few months ago she started to have some very very bad oil consumption issues. It would go through a quart of oil about every 300ish miles, so that is when i decided to bite the bullet and build the motor.

Parts:
-IE Connecting Rods
-JE Stock Size and Stock Compression Pistons
-Calico Coated ACL Rod Bearings
-IE Valve Springs + Retainers
-ARP Head Studs
-CTS "BOSS" GTX2867R Turbo kit
-CTS Front Mount Intercooler

The motor is currently back in the car and is running great! My only issue is now getting a tune for it becuase it is currently running on the stock tune. The car runs and drives fine for normal daily use but anything over 13lb of boost the car goes into limp mode and the overboost fault code comes on. I was curious to get your guys opinion on possibly getting a KO4 tune temporarily for the car in hopes that it would handle the boost better than the stock tune currently on the car while i wait for some answers on a custom tune. United motorsports turned me down completely, IE doesnt offer any custom tuning, GIAC said they wont tune it, Malone Tuning says they dont offer anything for the B8.5 Allroads, Maestro doesnt offer anything for the B8.5's. All the tuning companies that offer "Custom Tuning" are basically turning me down because they dont support the platform. I have no problem asking every single tuner in the united stated to help me, but for the time being until find someone to tune it would a KO4 work for me as a temporary fix? I'm not looking to make crazy power or anything i just figured a KO4 tune would be better off than a stock tune.

Try reaching out to Tyler Ward. He’s tuning my build and is doing a great job using the HPTuners platform. Check out my IG @AlterdA4. PM me through IG of you want his contact details.


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[AUDacIouS4]

Hey guys, let me start off by saying I love everything about this build, I mean who wouldn't love a spool bus??? Now with that being said, I too have a B8.5 Allroad, I have owned the car for about a year now and a few months ago she started to have some very very bad oil consumption issues. It would go through a quart of oil about every 300ish miles, so that is when i decided to bite the bullet and build the motor.

Parts:
-IE Connecting Rods
-JE Stock Size and Stock Compression Pistons
-Calico Coated ACL Rod Bearings
-IE Valve Springs + Retainers
-ARP Head Studs
-CTS "BOSS" GTX2867R Turbo kit
-CTS Front Mount Intercooler

The motor is currently back in the car and is running great! My only issue is now getting a tune for it becuase it is currently running on the stock tune. The car runs and drives fine for normal daily use but anything over 13lb of boost the car goes into limp mode and the overboost fault code comes on. I was curious to get your guys opinion on possibly getting a KO4 tune temporarily for the car in hopes that it would handle the boost better than the stock tune currently on the car while i wait for some answers on a custom tune. United motorsports turned me down completely, IE doesnt offer any custom tuning, GIAC said they wont tune it, Malone Tuning says they dont offer anything for the B8.5 Allroads, Maestro doesnt offer anything for the B8.5's. All the tuning companies that offer "Custom Tuning" are basically turning me down because they dont support the platform. I have no problem asking every single tuner in the united stated to help me, but for the time being until find someone to tune it would a KO4 work for me as a temporary fix? I'm not looking to make crazy power or anything i just figured a KO4 tune would be better off than a stock [email protected].
He'll sort you out. Tell him Chris with the big turbo Allroad sent you. You will need some fueling though. Chris worked out swapping the 991.2 Porsche turbo injectors or you could just run the Nostrum Black Magic universal 1000cc in the throttle body like I did. But your build should get you 500 at the wheels with fueling

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[AUDacIouS4]

The Wagon Mafia hit Chuckwalla Raceway last weekend. Man this car is fast!! I was hanging with some fast cars. I play on the street a little here and there when it's safe, but this is the first time I have really driven it hard. I sold my Cayman which I had been tracking for the last two years so I thought it would be fun to go rip the wagon! Halfway through a session I started shooting fireballs and the car lost boost so I pulled off track and found that the turbo compressor outlet hose blew apart! That's a first for me. Nothing a little duct tape and a clamp can't fix! I was able to drive 150 miles home, so always carry duct tape and zip ties!
Oh, and my water pump went out last week at 77k miles, so that was fun fixing that. A new one was $420 at the dealer with a 10% discount. For those who haven't replaced one yet it only takes about 2 hours to swap one out.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/29dbc4d7969032d45b4bb62cbecc4f45.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/682a30433a5ea14859d2042f61d7caac.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/7be56d28d39f227b57b858e44e406bfe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/f624a70f7c52a0a317d680d6c432fec6.jpg

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[AUDacIouS4]

It's been a minute Audi brethren! 40,000 miles into the big turbo build and the car still runs great. My wife mostly drives the car now and I was considering selling it this spring. I wanted to reach out on here to see if anyone is interested or else I will list it on BaT when the time comes.

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[Melmulanda]

It's been a minute Audi brethren! 40,000 miles into the big turbo build and the car still runs great. My wife mostly drives the car now and I was considering selling it this spring. I wanted to reach out on here to see if anyone is interested or else I will list it on BaT when the time comes.

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True testament to it's reliability. Congratulations and all the best in your future builds.

This thread has been useful to my 13' A5 Sportback B8.5 big turbo build. Currently limited by the brushless LPFP giving in at 27psi, 5700rpm 4th gear. ECU closes throttle and limits boost. You can 'trick' the system by letting off partial throttle for a sec then WOT again and it picks up boost pretty well till 7300rpm redline. Theory we are running with is that the LPFP is struggling to meet the fuel requirements hence the throttle shut.

BACKGROUND
The car has a built engine; rods, pistons, valves, springs, retainers, bearings, headstuds... went with a custom twin gate tubular manifold from Lunchbox Fabrication, two TS Hypergate 45s, TS Raceport BOV and a 'G30-900' equivalent 6255 Pulsar Turbo with a 3" full exhaust. Currently running Golf 7R DI injectors, VIS HPFP piston upgrade, Stock LPFP (8k0919051ad) same part no. with B8.5 4.2 NA RS5. Car seems to have maxed out this LPFP at 450bhp. Strange as RS5 come with 444hp stock [confused]