"AUDacIouS4" Allroad Prescision Turbo 5558 build

[AUDacIouS4]

IMG_20191219_154545_115.jpg
audi allroad engine shot.jpg
This thread I hope will serve as both to document the the "Gen2 EA888 big turbo path" as well as my own progress with an Allroad flex fuel setup. I will update this page as I move forward.

I've been at a crossroads recently, going back and forth over a K04 or a big turbo. The k04 is tried and true, a great DD, and provides long term reliability. However, after seeing a few BT attempts fizzle after coming so close I knew it was just a matter of putting the right pieces together and getting a good tune.
I was ignorant of the fact the MK6 GTI Gen2 EA888 was almost Identical to our version with the differences being the crank, Audi valve lift, and fueling. Thanks to a few friendly comments from others in the k04 thread about the MK6 I dove deep down the Volkswagen Vortex and emerged with what I feel is a solution to my insatiable appetite for gobs of torque.

Now with that out of of the way, lets get this show on the road!

For now I'm going to stay at 400whp as a goal, (and after speaking to Integrated Engineering)and to keep my stock rods from disintegrating.
Most of this information here will be pertinent for a build with healthy stock internals. I'll give a little info when needed for those who want to build a short block and reach 500whp and beyond.
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AC4_0401_Feb1718_CaliPhoto.jpgAC4_3263_Feb1718_CaliPhoto.jpg

MY BIG TURBO HARDWARE BUILD LIST:
- Precision Dual Ball Bearing 5558 turbo/ 0.62 A/R V-Banded Turbine housing
- JDL Custom Equal length Tubular manifold with wastegate recirculation
- Precision 46mm v-band wastegate with 1 Bar spring (15psi)
- Custom 4" Turbo inlet piping with stock MAF housing/ K&N filter behind passenger fog grille
- Custom 3" downpipe with 200 Cell Magnaflow cat
- Custom ECS vacuum operated cutout in mid-pipe
- Magnaflow Cat-back
- APR FMIC
- ECS black wrinkle coated metal charge piping kit
- Snow VC-50 Water-Meth kit with gauge/ One post intercooler nozzle for IAT cooling
FUELING
- Stock Bosch Di flex fuel injectors (730cc)
- Autotech High Pressure Fuel Pump piston upgrade
- PORT INJECTION Nostrum 'Black Jack' universal 1000cc KI injector to replace OEM 5th injector in throttle body
SUSPENSION
- KW V3 Ground to Fender = 25.75"
- H&R sways with Moog end links
- 034 - upper control arms
- 034 stiffener inserts - transmission/sub-frame/rear diff
- Eurocode X-Brace
- CR-15 strut brace
EXTERIOR
- Custom RS Grille and fog screens
- Black vinyl wrapped all chrome
- Flush mount roof rails
- Vorsteiner VFF-105 20x10.5" ET 35 Wheels on 285/30/20 Continental Extreme Sport Contact
BRAKES
- FRONT
Q5 Brembo 4 piston front caliper
345mm Stoptech slotted rotor/ SS brake line
- REAR
S4 calipers and 330mm Stoptech slotted rotor/ SS brake line

Street pads - Stoptech Sport pad
Race pads - Pagid RST3 - Fronts/ RS19 rears

[/B]*PRESCISION TURBO GEN2 5558 DUAL BALL BEARING TURBO T3/V-BAND
55 Trim
.62 A/R. (.48 , .62, .84 options)
Air and oil cooled
v-banded
Full spool at 4200 RPM
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*PT 39MM EXTERNAL WASTEGATE I switched to a V-Banded turbine housing pictured above and am now using the Precision 46mm V-band style wastegate with a 1 Bar spring (15psi)
The benefits external wastegates provide are better boost control, quicker response, less prone to sticking shut, faster relief of excess boost pressure which keeps your turbo healthy and happy.

*Integrated enginnering Oil drain line adapter flange ( oil pan)

*Treadstone Stealth oil return/supply kit


*ATP oil feed adapter flange (from block)

*ATP diverter valve relocation kitNo longer using
The shop that did my fab work does not like the DV relocater housings as they have been known to leak. Instead they installed a mechanical DV. It's a 710N from a 911 turbo and also used on the older B5 S4.
2304.jpg

*PRESCISION turbo blanket


I've recently learned that flex fuel model year 13/14 have different injectors

INJECTORS

Please read this post before buying injectors.
Here is an important bit of injector info from Nostrum
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post12322172

LDK
Bosch 0 261 500 112
304 cc/min / 29 lb/hr @ 5bar
15+ Flex
Bosch 0 261 500 164 HDEV 5.2
730 cc/min 16.9 g/s 6 point spray pattern
15+ Flex 5th injector
Bosch 0 280 158 235 EV14
731 cc/min / 66 lb/hr @ 3bar Conical spray pattern

The MK6 was able to reach 400whp on the stock HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) and these injectors. To get beyond this power level, some added a higher flowing HPFP (we'll get to that in a minute) and plumbed in an additional 5th injector in the throttle body, which coincidentally the flex fuel engines have in place already.

Here's what I recently discovered. I contacted Bosch in reference to the Injector in my 15' Allroad.
Audi part # 06H-906-036-N
Bosch GDI (Gas Direct Injection) injector #62823 (Bosch was not able to give me details as this is an OEM Audi proprietary part but hinted that I could find out more online)
The Bosch injector number printed on the Injector itself is as pictured: 0261500164

This injector is the HDEV 5.2 style capable of 730 cc/min @100bar with a max of 200bar
This injector is ONLY used in 2015 -17 Audi Flex/non-flex fuel L4 2.0TFSI
20190707_195130.jpeg
HDEV5.2 INJECTORS can be found here
http://www.bosch-motorsport-shop.com...irect-injector

High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP)
The mechanical fuel pump is attached to the cam lobes on the rear passenger side top of the engine. It's responsible for pressurizing the fuel into the top rails. The stock pump is a Hitachi pump with Audi part number 06J-127-025-J. I have installed the Autotech HPFP piston upgrade which has allowed me to hold 205 Bar fuel pressure

LPFP- Low Pressure Fuel Pump or 'lifter pump' located in gas tank - Allroad uses the "N" pump

For anything around 400whp, an upgraded Low Pressure Fuel Pump (LPFP) is NOT needed as the pump is the same as the B8.5 S4/S5 which are putting out 450whp on Dual Pulley tunes and I confirmed they were able to reach about 425whp on E35 with the Allroad "N" pump

[Perry01]

Wow, it’s cool you are going to take in this BT build. It seems like you’ve done your homework with researching the MK6 approach. I’m looking forward to your input along the way because this is something I’ve been considering for a while. I have a B8.5 flex fuel so hopefully fueling will not be a problem.

Where do you plan on getting it tuned? Will you be able to keep your 034 HFC?

Good luck!

[B8_Dude97]

Sub'ed. If you do it right your turbo lag should be comparible to a k04. I don't have research on the precision turbo which is why I'm heading a different but similar direction(twin scroll) but I'm interested in someone shooting for that middle ground between k04 DD and BT race car.

I'll be interested to see how the fueling holds up as it was reported by slowone that he got fuel cuts with his precision turbo around 420hp dyno runs that's why he tuned for 400 aswell.

Also those injectors look good to me. I know hyde16 switched out his opels recently cause he said the s3 injectors have a better spray pattern than opels


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[poweredbyaudi7]

:popcorn:

[cybernet99]

Subscribed ... Will be following closely, plan to go BT as well.

[hyperunion]

At least we all know the zf8hp55 transmission can hold the torque this turbo will put out... But very curious how it will adapt to the definitive difference in turbo response and drivability!

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[Grippy]

Subscribed. Happy building

[AUDacIouS4]

Wow, it’s cool you are going to take in this BT build. It seems like you’ve done your homework with researching the MK6 approach. I’m looking forward to your input along the way because this is something I’ve been considering for a while. I have a B8.5 flex fuel so hopefully fueling will not be a problem.

Where do you plan on getting it tuned? Will you be able to keep your 034 HFC?

Good luck!

For tuning, I talked with both United Motorsports and GIAC. They will both tune the car. That was the biggest obstacle in my mind and I'm glad it was easily resolved.

1: UM would use a MK6 BT base file and do as many revisions as necessary on pump gas to start. They weren't confident the stock fueling would be able to handle a full E85 tune at those power levels(400whp) maybe E30. They also are unaware that the 15/16/17 injectors flow 20% more so we'll see. UM can tune whenever I'm ready.

2: GIAC would take the car for about a week and dyno tune it. It would be very refined and have a pump MAP as well as an E85 race MAP. It's twice as expensive as the UM tune but arguably better. GIAC doesn't have openings for me until January.

Both tuners would make a great tune, I just don't want UM to flake out on tuning for E85.

As for the downpipe, I'm having my exhaust guy weld a v-band flange to a 4 bolt flange(OEM style) that will bolt right up to the 034 downpipe and/or stock downpipe. This way when emission/smog testing time comes for me, I can swap back to stock and pass. Alternatively, I could have a v-band flange welded to both ends of the OEM cat/034 HFC and just swap it in and out when needed. I track my car (road course) once a month and it would be nice to run a test pipe.

My hardware should arrive early next week so I'll post some pictures then.

[AUDacIouS4]

Treadstone "Stealth" oil supply/return kit


You CAN NOT re-use your OEM oil feed line as it has a built in restrictor. You will starve The turbo of oil. The PRESCISION turbos, and most Garrett turbos, have a built in restrictor in the CHRA so you need a kit like this. I'm missing the oil flange adapter from IE in the picture.

[Perry01]

For tuning, I talked with both United Motorsports and GIAC. They will both tune the car. That was the biggest obstacle in my mind and I'm glad it was easily resolved.

1: UM would use a MK6 BT base file and do as many revisions as necessary on pump gas to start. They weren't confident the stock fueling would be able to handle a full E85 tune at those power levels(400whp) maybe E30. UM can tune whenever I'm ready.

2: GIAC would take the car for about a week and dyno tune it. It would be very refined and have a pump MAP as well as an E85 race MAP. It's twice as expensive as the UM tune but arguably better. GIAC doesn't have openings for me until January.

Both tuners would make a great tune, I just don't want UM to flake out on tuning for E85.

As for the downpipe, I'm having my exhaust guy weld a v-band flange to a 4 bolt flange(OEM style) that will bolt right up to the 034 downpipe and/or stock downpipe. This way when emission/smog testing time comes for me, I can swap back to stock and pass. Alternatively, I could have a v-band flange welded to both ends of the OEM cat/034 HFC and just swap it in and out when needed. I track my car (road course) once a month and it would be nice to run a test pipe.

My hardware should arrive early next week so I'll post some pictures then.

It sounds like you have it all planned out. GIAC’s dyno tuning should provide great results. It’s a bummer you’d be without your car for a week though. I assume UM’s would be an e-tune? You would think they could accommodate a full E85 MAP with the stock B8.5 fueling.

I didn’t realize you were in California where they have smog testing. Your flange fabrication is a good approach.

Keep posting pictures of your hardware.

[AUDacIouS4]

Updated injector info.

[Perry01]

High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP)

The stock pump is a Hitachi pump with Audi part number 06J-127-025-J
I'm still trying to determine if the pump in the 15+ flex fuel is the ones used in the 4.2l R8.

The HPFP 06J-127-025-J on the Allroad looks different than the either of the fuel pumps (left or right) on the R8 4.2 V8.

Here is the Allroad HPFP:



And the right side HPFP from my car:



Note the two brass fittings.

[AUDacIouS4]

The HPFP 06J-127-025-J on the Allroad looks different than the either of the fuel pumps (left or right) on the R8 4.2 V8.

Here is the Allroad HPFP:



And the right side HPFP from my car:



Note the two brass fittings.

Your right. Thanks for the picture. It's been really hard trying to find out info on that Hitachi mechanical fuel pump. I'll keep digging. My thinking is that Audi was beefing up the 2.0TFSI in preparation for this: which they sadly killed off. 400whp 2.0tfsi, going in the R8 base model
https://youtu.be/EuHJ4uclAYU

Maybe, maybe not.

Either way, the 15/16 flex fuel fueling is different.

[AUDacIouS4]

One more thing:
For Audi/VW part numbers the last 6 digits denote the part itself while the first 3 denote the model and the last letter denotes the part revision.
For example the HPFP Audi Flex fuel part number is
06J-127-025-J.

The 127-025 is what's important because that determines if the part carries over to different platforms.

[Perry01]

One more thing:
For Audi/VW part numbers the last 6 digits denote the part itself while the first 3 denote the model and the last letter denotes the part revision.
For example the HPFP Audi Flex fuel part number is
06J-127-025-J.

The 127-025 is what's important because that determines if the part carries over to different platforms.

Yes, the 6 numbers you mentioned refer to a fuel pump. For VW/Audi parts, the first three digits often refer to the chassis code (like 8K0) but in the case where the part is shared over many different platforms, the first three digits do not restrict the part to just one model alone. In the case of your fuel pump 06J-127-025-J, the first 3 digits do not designate a particular model, but rather which engine the fuel pump was first developed for so it does have significance in this case. The “J” refers to a modification code.

[AUDacIouS4]

No affiliations:

Just wanted to give a shout out to Chris from realstreetperformance.com
For all the help putting my Precision Turbo kit together.
They've got some killer deals going on right now if anyone is interested.

[Slick_B8]

Welp, bought a 2014 a4 flex fuel pump to see if it would work on my 2010 a4. Connectors don’t match

[skin88]

Nice I’ve been looking as well gonna keep and eye on your build. Your local as well would love to see it in person one day

[AUDacIouS4]

[AUDacIouS4]

Waiting on the DV relocater and IE oil flange adapter. The only thing I have left to do is design the turbo inlet pipe. I will probably run 4" from the turbo inlet up to the MAF housing and use a reducer there as that is 3".
Although it seems like it would be easier to run the piping sideways and down from the compressor inlet and make a cold air intake and ditch the ECS setup.
I've cross shopped the VW TSI inlets but I haven't found any silicone/aluminum pipes that would work or are bent correctly.
I'll just fab up an inlet pipe center section with DV and PCV ports.
I've been told by UM that the N75 and OEM DV are good past 30psi.
GIAC suggested running two in series.
Not sure if I should get a different DV.

[weverb]

Holy poop! That is awesome, pretty, jealous, (insert adjective here), etc.

[AUDacIouS4]

The downpipe dilemma....
After getting the turbo and manifold all measured and assessing the clearances, it looks like the exhaust turbine will sit 3" further back towards the firewall than the stock turbo.
There appears to be enough pipe on the 034 downpipe to remove the 3", slide the cat backwards, and attach the v-band clamp.

[poweredbyaudi7]

What would be wrong with moving the cat down the canal that the downpipe is running? Will it get too hot?

[AUDacIouS4]

What would be wrong with moving the cat down the canal that the downpipe is running? Will it get too hot?

I was thinking of keeping the cat in the stock location for CA emission/smog check. I'm not due for another year or two but I wanted to avoid a future dilemma now. Relocating the cat is Good idea! I will probably heat wrap the whole downpipe anyway so maybe the visual inspection won't be a problem. Your idea would probably work better because it would make more room for the EWG dump tube up near the connection point. I just don't know if I want to run a test pipe all the time. I had to put a resonator on my MILTEK midpipe because the drone was awful. Maybe this larger turbo will change the exhaust tone a little.
Something like this ATP GT kit.

[AUDacIouS4]

Edited Injector specs, you'll be surprised how much bigger the 15+ Flex fuel injectors are than the LDK "Opel" injectors

[B8_Dude97]

Edited Injector specs, you'll be surprised how much bigger the 15+ Flex fuel injectors are than the LDK "Opel" injectors

I'd be interested in comparing the Opel to flex to the big hp ones with some data


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[Tim11Macc]

Subd

[AUDacIouS4]

I'd be interested in comparing the Opel to flex to the big hp ones with some data


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I pulled the Opel injector data from here
https://www.injectorrx.com/bosch-fuel-injectors/
as I think those LDK injectors are discontinued. Any company that cleans or flow tests injectors will have good data. There were 3 other sites that had the same data for the LDK.

I couldn't find anything on VW vortex about the LDK specs, only that they flowed enough to reach certain power levels.

I'd be interested to see what these flex fuel injectors can handle. If the 5th injector can be used efficiently I'm hoping this calculator is correct from Deatshwerks site:

[AUDacIouS4]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post12322172

Added this link to the first page. Nostrum Energy chimed in on a B7 A4 thread with some very helpful injector information.

[B8_Dude97]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post12322172

Added this link to the first page. Nostrum Energy chimed in on a B7 A4 thread with some very helpful injector information.

There injectors are pricey but the best on the block if anyone wants to get serious about injectors. I know of two b8 builds using their injectors.


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[AUDacIouS4]

Finally got the rest of the parts I've been waiting on. I'll update the first post with part numbers for those interested. I have a T connector silicone hose from Treadstone in the mail and that's it. I need to have a welder fab up some nipples and cut down to size the aluminum pipe for the turbo inlet. I'm probably going to do the install after Christmas.
Eurodynamic will be tuning my car on the dyno, they are almost done defining all the tables in my ECU.


And I bent both my drivers side wheels at Buttonwillow this weekend on this section somehow???


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[AUDacIouS4]

ECS intercooler aluminum pipe kit went in last week. Way better throttle response.

Fits pretty good with the APR FMIC.


You can see the OEM hoses are only 1-ply and very stretchy.


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[gainesb2003]

Welp, bought a 2014 a4 flex fuel pump to see if it would work on my 2010 a4. Connectors don’t match

Hey so what did you end up doing about the connectors on the fuel pump? You gonna swap the connectors or go another route? I was wondering if it would fit as well.

[audisean1]

Hey so what did you end up doing about the connectors on the fuel pump? You gonna swap the connectors or go another route? I was wondering if it would fit as well.

Swap over the top section from the old pump assembly?

[Zach L]

That ATP log-style manifold has proved problematic on many BT builds on VW applications due to turbulent flow characteristics. It just doesn't flow well as it's a crude and not very well engineered piece. That said, this is awesome that you're going the BT route on this platform and I wish you ease and success! I'll be following this closely just as I have many other FSI/TSI builds over the last decade.

I would use UM over GIAC if both were making the same offer, but in this case I think it was wise to go GIAC so long as they make good on their promise.

[AUDacIouS4]

Hey so what did you end up doing about the connectors on the fuel pump? You gonna swap the connectors or go another route? I was wondering if it would fit as well.

Welp, bought a 2014 a4 flex fuel pump to see if it would work on my 2010 a4. Connectors don’t match

Swap over the top section from the old pump assembly?

You guys have to determine if the fuel sending unit is the same in the B8 - B8.5. It may not be plug and play even if you swap connectors. The pumps, fuel sending units, and level sensors may require different voltages.

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[AUDacIouS4]

That ATP log-style manifold has proved problematic on many BT builds on VW applications due to turbulent flow characteristics. It just doesn't flow well as it's a crude and not very well engineered piece. That said, this is awesome that you're going the BT route on this platform and I wish you ease and success! I'll be following this closely just as I have many other FSI/TSI builds over the last decade.

I would use UM over GIAC if both were making the same offer, but in this case I think it was wise to go GIAC so long as they make good on their promise.

Your absolutely right about the ATP manifold. It's design is less than ideal. However, for power levels under 450whp it's design flaws don't seem to be a hindrance for the MK6 guys. That A4 big turbo build in Kenya and the A5 one in the UK used that manifold and made almost 500whp. Certainly a custom equal length tubular manifold would be the best, I just didn't want to drop $1200 on one at this stage in the game. I think 400whp is a modest goal in the grand scheme of things.


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[Zach L]

Your absolutely right about the ATP manifold. It's design is less than ideal. However, for power levels under 450whp it's design flaws don't seem to be a hindrance for the MK6 guys. That A4 big turbo build in Kenya and the A5 one in the UK used that manifold and made almost 500whp. Certainly a custom equal length tubular manifold would be the best, I just didn't want to drop $1200 on one at this stage in the game. I think 400whp is a modest goal in the grand scheme of things.

Actually I got an offer from Eurodynamic to dyno tune my setup. They are eager to break into the Euro market and have done some big turbo Mk6 tunes already. I'm confident they can dial in a safe, reliable tune for me.

I'm getting my downpipe and turbo inlet fabbed up next week so stay tuned.

I'm really interested in the fueling and tuning aspects of your build, and it looks like you've done the preliminary homework. The hardware stuff is all pretty available and straightforward. If your goal is 400whp WITHOUT the use of water/meth or e85 than that makes me smile. From a hardware perspective, your setup should be able to make 400whp on 93 octane using just the 5 injectors, or possibly even just 4 injectors, but people always want to take a shortcut using w/m or e85. That's all good, but some people don't want to mess with w/m on a daily driver. IMO, an e85 tune should be a "plus" tune over the everyday power goal that can be had using just 93 pump gas.

[pedro sr.]

Very nice!

[AUDacIouS4]

I'm really interested in the fueling and tuning aspects of your build, and it looks like you've done the preliminary homework. The hardware stuff is all pretty available and straightforward. If your goal is 400whp WITHOUT the use of water/meth or e85 than that makes me smile. From a hardware perspective, your setup should be able to make 400whp on 93 octane using just the 5 injectors, or possibly even just 4 injectors, but people always want to take a shortcut using w/m or e85. That's all good, but some people don't want to mess with w/m on a daily driver. IMO, an e85 tune should be a "plus" tune over the everyday power goal that can be had using just 93 pump gas.

I should easily be able to hit 400whp, even with our CA crap 91. I already have meth, mainly for cooling, and I am definitely going to take advantage of the E85 tuning for the track.
Here is my mustang dyno from October. I'll be getting tuned on the same dyno so I'll have a good baseline.

The meth gave me a few hp up top while running 60% Ethanol those runs.



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