B8 vs. B9 S4

[A4Ultrasport]

Hello - as someone who plans to hang on to my manual B8 S4 for a long time, I enjoyed the below article. Curious to see if others agree, or disagree ...

http://jalopnik.com/does-the-new-audi-s4-still-matter-1780993532

[doug97gxe]

that BO S4 is beautiful

[Dannydyn]

That's why I'll be buying my B8.5 out at the end of the lease.... no 6MT? F that.

[douglasjboehme]

Jay Leno's garage YouTube series did a review of the new R8 and he was also saddened by the lost of the 6MT and gated shifter. Audi's response? It's faster to have paddle shifters instead of MT and most Europeans don't like to drive an MT. I wonder how true this really is or is just someone stating an opinion hoping for it to become fact.

[minman26]

For the majority of owners (i.e. non-enthusiasts) I think it's an improvement all around. More power, less weight, better interior, and a better DD transmission. I think the TC transmission will be better than most expect and not have some of the quirks of a DCT. Also I think the turbo aftermarket is going to blow away the current SC that it seems is just about tapped out.

[bmoreS4]

Yeah, makes me glad I grabbed a b8.5

[pfft]

Audi's response? It's faster to have paddle shifters instead of MT and most Europeans don't like to drive an MT. I wonder how true this really is or is just someone stating an opinion hoping for it to become fact.

It is true. At least in a straight line 0-100. It's also true that automatic car sales dramatically trump manual car sales. Being true doesn't mean it's not a bummer to lose the manual (it is), and manual drivers will always love the manual, but the dollars (i.e. sales) speak the truth.

[Hofahome]

I'm only jealous of the motor, which will likely be more tuner friendly/upgradable than ours. The rest is kind of meh so I really see no reason to trade mine in. It looks like a passat with sharper lines. Audi design is going backwards. Just look at the new A5. Besides a DB9, the current model is probably one of the best looking modern cars.

[ALAN12186]

b9 s4 is fugly looking

[TexasDfwS4]

This is a platform for the newcomer. If you have the B8/B8.5, then this is nothing new just dressed up a little. I will keep the old and next ride will be RS....

[minman26]

In response to the article, I think it definitely still matters and will be quite competitive with its rivals. I'm not planning on trading in my '14 for one, but if I am looking for a new car in a couple years it would still be on my radar.

[Zaxon55]

Yep, just read this and headed here. I will go drive a B9 at some point and make a true judgement call, but there is nothing that is making me regret my B8 purchase.

[Race Shooter]

More than the tranny, the thing that will keep me out of the B9 is the terrible interior and the stupid iPad stuck on the dashboard.

[doughboy17]

More than the tranny, the thing that will keep me out of the B9 is the terrible interior and the stupid iPad stuck on the dashboard.

Exactly!

[silverf0x]

No 6MT = I'm out.

If I'm stuck with an automatic car I mind as well go with a Tesla..

[RudyH]

The B9 S4 is officially irrelevant....keep your B8/B8.5 until this...we were spoiled with for the past 10 yrs, evolved into a new monster...'Porsche Pajun'

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/01/porsche-spy-shots-pajun-panamera/

I'm onboard with the others, grab a 6MT if you can (B8.5) and wait

[DOCEVG]

I sold my DSG B8, and bought a 6MT B8.5 (and kept my 6MT B8). Really glad I did. Not impressed with the B9.

[hotleadsingergu]

Jay Leno's garage YouTube series did a review of the new R8 and he was also saddened by the lost of the 6MT and gated shifter. Audi's response? It's faster to have paddle shifters instead of MT and most Europeans don't like to drive an MT. I wonder how true this really is or is just someone stating an opinion hoping for it to become fact.

It's absolutely true.

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-shifts.html

Modern automatic transmissions are *much* faster, more fuel-efficient, more power-efficient, and are sold at a much higher rate. According to the article, only 3.9% of cars sold that year were sold as Manual. At that point, it's not worth making.

[golfinz]

Well, my next car might just be a newer B8.5 S4, or if I jump brands a c63

[douglasjboehme]

Sorry, what I meant to say was "do Europeans actually prefer auto over MT". Definitely faster and the facts prove it.

[bmoreS4]

I'm mad they dumped DSG, that and the new look is just not doing it for me.

[Lensch09]

Sorry, what I meant to say was "do Europeans actually prefer auto over MT". Definitely faster and the facts prove it.

Most Germans I know PREFER the manual over any type of Auto. I lived in Germany for 3 years, and know LOTS of them of all age groups.

No manual = DUMB.

How difficult would it be to slap a manual into the new B9? Not very, not even a little bit. Hell, Getrag even has one that already works. You wouldn't be able to do the "free-wheeling" lame BS. But, at that point, who really gives a damn? We are talking about a consumer base that are going to shell out 55-70k for a 350+ hp sport sedan. Does Audi actually expect that any of us actually care about fuel economy, particularly when the delta could be something as trivial as from say 25mpg highway, to 22? That's absurd.

As a brand loyal consumer for the last 12 years, I can honestly say that Audi can go piss up a rope at this point, as far as I'm concerned. If I HAVE to buy a new sport sedan, Ill be looking at BMW. If not, I'll keep my B8.5, and go buy a track car (that surprisingly, will also not be an Audi because of their refusal to install a third pedal).

Mark my words, more moves like this WILL bite Audi in the long run...

And lastly, for those of us who have been around FOREVER, remind us again how a tiptronic is going to be more reliable than the updated mechatronic DSGs? That's laughable (especially coming from a non-DSG fan).

-DL

[Lensch09]

Best quote in the comments on Jalopnik:

"It is a nice looking car, but it's turning into something I'd buy because I wanted a nicer Taurus SHO, and not something I'd buy if I wanted a hot performance sedan."

Nail on the head...

-DL

[vwblackb5]

Another vote for b9 being bleh. Drove a C7 A6 as a loaner and if it's any indication of how a TC tranny will be, the B9 tranny with No MT/DSG option will prob suck just as bad.

Glad I got my B8.5 now. Hopefully Audi NA brings the B9!RS4 over if not, F80 M3 time.


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[joediesel]

Glad I got my B8.5 now. Hopefully Audi NA brings the B9!RS4 over if not, F80 M3 time.

+1

[cval3]

This is a platform for the newcomer. If you have the B8/B8.5, then this is nothing new just dressed up a little. I will keep the old and next ride will be RS....

My exact plan as well [up]

[zps123]

no wagon no buy

[Senseless]

Yes, the sell rate for manuals overall is very low. But cars like the S4, Miata, Corvette, Mustang GT probably have significant amount of buyers taking manual transmissions. A stripped economy car with manual can be drudgery. But a powerful sports car mated to a great stick is a wonderful thing to drive. It's not about track times at all.

[superswiss]

Yes, the sell rate for manuals overall is very low. But cars like the S4, Miata, Corvette, Mustang GT probably have significant amount of buyers taking manual transmissions. A stripped economy car with manual can be drudgery. But a powerful sports car mated to a great stick is a wonderful thing to drive. It's not about track times at all.

It depends on the car. Miatas and Corvettes are outliers, but for Audi it's below 10% and dropping in markets where they offer both. There was an interview with the quattro Gmbh bosses a couple of years ago where they talked about this. The introduction of the DSG in cars such as the TT RS and R8 was followed by steep declines in demand for manual transmissions. Audi still offers plenty of lower end models with manual transmissions and they are popular even among Europeans, but for different reasons. In Europe for many, a manual transmission is a matter of saving money. The higher up you move in the luxury and performance food chain, the fewer customers are interested in a manual transmission.

EDIT: Found the interview. Starts at around 18:00 and at around 19:40 he speaks the painful (for 6MT lovers) truth.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLSK0qUAZg

[jsh139]

It all comes down to money. I wonder how many 6MT cars wasted away on the lots during the peak of B8/B9 production and had to be sold at a discount? That would certainly cause dealers to not request allocation for them from Audi.

At this point, it would be better for Audi to offer the manual as a custom option and charge a little premium for it. I'd pay it if it meant that was the only way to get one new.

[CrownSeven]

That's why I'll be buying my B8.5 out at the end of the lease.... no 6MT? F that.

Most Europeans don't like driving MT???? Thats a bunch of bull. We vacation there every year and ended up buying a car to keep there as its cheaper than renting. Good luck trying to find an automatic anything - its manuals everywhere.

[superswiss]

Most Europeans don't like driving MT???? Thats a bunch of bull. We vacation there every year and ended up buying a car to keep there as its cheaper than renting. Good luck trying to find an automatic anything - its manuals everywhere.

Do you know why? Because, it's the cheaper option. Automatic transmissions are found on higher end models with bigger engines. Those are more expensive cars not just from an acquisition standpoint, but also from a tax standpoint. In much of Europe, taxes on cars are based on displacement and it gets steep the higher up you go. Most Europeans buy small cars, with small engines and are not willing to pay a premium for an automatic transmission. It's a very different mindset, trust me, I grew up in Europe. The S4 is an expensive car in Europe. Europeans make less, pay more in taxes and car prices are significantly higher than what we pay for the same car here, so not many people can afford an S4 and those who do don't need to save a few bucks by opting for the cheaper manual transmission.

[Lensch09]

The introduction of the DSG in cars such as the TT RS and R8 was followed by steep declines in demand for manual transmissions.


Operative acronym here being "DSG." New S4 has a standard transmission/tiptronic and is not offering a 6MT or a DSG. Fail.

-DL

[superswiss]

Operative acronym here being "DSG." New S4 has a standard transmission/tiptronic and is not offering a 6MT or a DSG. Fail.

-DL

Absolutely correct, however more and more ZF8 implementations are rivaling dual-clutch transmissions. RS7 for example. Torque converter locks pretty much immediately, so you get that same locked drivetrain feel and no automatic upshift at redline in manual mode. It's just a matter of time. As much as I'm not a big fan of the ZF8, other than in the RS7, until I've driven a B9 S4, I reserve my judgment.

[S4 00 2.7]

Well, my next car might just be a newer B8.5 S4, or if I jump brands a c63

c63 > s4 any day

[Dr GP]

[QUOTE=jsh139;11673712] I wonder how many 6MT cars wasted away on the lots during the peak of B8/B9 production and had to be sold at a discount? That would certainly cause dealers to not request allocation for them from Audi.


Answer would be NONE! Especially in 2016, the 6MTs disappeared quickly from the lots, leaving only Tiptonics to be had. At the most, only 20% were ever produced. Owing to its relatively low production numbers, Audi decided not to produce any more. Same with the R8. BTW, the B8 S4 was never available with a 6MT in Europe.

[hodrosS42001]

Everyone will complain about the B9.. until it blows the doors off the B8/B8.5 in pure speed/tune-ability/mod-ability and technology. Easily a future 10s car with minimal mods

[superswiss]

[QUOTE=jsh139;11673712]BTW, the B8 S4 was never available with a 6MT in Europe.

The B8.5 wasn't, but the B8 was.

[vwblackb5]

Everyone will complain about the B9.. until it blows the doors off the B8/B8.5 in pure speed/tune-ability/mod-ability and technology. Easily a future 10s car with minimal mods

Each replacement in theory should be an improvement over the predecessor. No doubt the power output, weight, and tech of B9 will be better than b8/.5 in quantifiable metrics but that doesn't mean everyone will adopt/like it.

Everything right now is conjecture and speculation until they officially release this thing. Imho the B9 to me is just blehh. Speaking for myself, I sure hope Audi NA brings the RS4 over here. If not I'm jumping ship to an F80 M3 as a stop gap (one more car) before diving into the many delicious P-Car flavors.


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[pdqgp]

I saw a beautiful B9 A4......bet it was an S-line as it was sharp. Had what looked like rotors on it but it was rolling slow so I couldn't tell for sure. IMO looked like a larger A3/S3 which flowed nicely. Way better in person than pics and vids I've seen. Not sure about the interior but there too I'm sure it will grow on people once they see it in person.

I'm not too concerned as my 2014 is very nice and the updates are more timeless given they are really just incremental. I'll likely upgrade to an S6 or S7 or even an RS7 next.....if I say four rings.

[superswiss]

I saw a beautiful B9 A4......bet it was an S-line as it was sharp. Had what looked like rotors on it but it was rolling slow so I couldn't tell for sure. IMO looked like a larger A3/S3 which flowed nicely. Way better in person than pics and vids I've seen. Not sure about the interior but there too I'm sure it will grow on people once they see it in person.

I'm not too concerned as my 2014 is very nice and the updates are more timeless given they are really just incremental. I'll likely upgrade to an S6 or S7 or even an RS7 next.....if I say four rings.

Yeah, it's overall a nice car. I had one as a loaner during my last two service visits. First time Audi connect was even working, so I could play with the virtual cockpit and everything. Pretty nice. Don't know what people are complaining about the non-retractable display. Never understood the point of making them retractable. I'm not a big fan of the new electronic shift knob and the MMI control placement. Kept putting the damn thing in R, every time I parked.

[CrownSeven]

Yeah, it's overall a nice car. I had one as a loaner during my last two service visits. First time Audi connect was even working, so I could play with the virtual cockpit and everything. Pretty nice. Don't know what people are complaining about the non-retractable display. Never understood the point of making them retractable. I'm not a big fan of the new electronic shift knob and the MMI control placement. Kept putting the damn thing in R, every time I parked.

Its not that they don't retract that most people have a problem with. Its HOW they're integrated into the dash which is to say not at all, and look like they've been glued on there as an afterthought. Just cheapens the interior period. If you check out the higher end audis - all their displays are either integrated or retractable.

[superswiss]

Its not that they don't retract that most people have a problem with. Its HOW they're integrated into the dash which is to say not at all, and look like they've been glued on there as an afterthought. Just cheapens the interior period. If you check out the higher end audis - all their displays are either integrated or retractable.

I get that, I just don't see the issue. Have you sat in a 2017 A4? It doesn't look cheap, IMO. The dinky retractable display in the A3 looks cheap and the one in the A6/7/8 is 1990 bulky and ugly and the one in the new Q7 is kinda small for the large interior and awkwardly coming out of the middle of nowhere. The one in the A4 is a beautiful large widescreen display, and IMO is the best of the newer Audi interiors. I do kinda like the integrated approach in the B8/8.5, however, at times it reminds me a bit too much of Knight Rider.

[snowmuch]

If they kept the DSG and sports seat no doubt it would be my next upgrade.

[will13k7]

the interior in the b9 a4 loaner I got was great IMO, getting back into a B8 felt like I traveled back in time. the new shifter takes some getting used to, but after a few days it's a non-issue. oh, and the dsg in the b9 a4 is smooth and refined.

the exterior hasn't grown on me yet. they stretched the nose and it looks awkward to me, here's a shot that shows the unflattering nose:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1717/25982797530_b693e49def_b.jpg

... look at the wheel gap for an sline! nice wheel design tho.

[PCHS4]

I really like my DSG and the clunky downshifting. How it learns on the fly based on the last few minutes of driving and adjusts shift points. It's really a very odd thing to experience.

[pdqgp]

the exterior hasn't grown on me yet. they stretched the nose and it looks awkward to me, here's a shot that shows the unflattering nose:


I dont' know that the nose has been stretched. I put my car above a B9 in photoshop and lined it up and outside a slightly different focal length it looks darn near the same. I did it a while back and quickly so I actually needed to scale my car down a bit more but this was just for the sake of seeing the body lines; rounded B8.5 vs the more Edgy B9.

http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah133/PDQS4/Audi/3jcxxtw4_zpshbclllh2.jpg (http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/PDQS4/media/Audi/3jcxxtw4_zpshbclllh2.jpg.html)

[iant]

Jay Leno's garage YouTube series did a review of the new R8 and he was also saddened by the lost of the 6MT and gated shifter. Audi's response? It's faster to have paddle shifters instead of MT and most Europeans don't like to drive an MT. I wonder how true this really is or is just someone stating an opinion hoping for it to become fact.

Audi's response is b*llshit.... Most cars in Europe are still manuals and we nearly all learnt to drive in manuals. We always considered drivers of autos to be old ladies or rich fat men [:d]

[jsh139]

I wonder how many 6MT cars wasted away on the lots during the peak of B8/B9 production and had to be sold at a discount? That would certainly cause dealers to not request allocation for them from Audi.


Answer would be NONE! Especially in 2016, the 6MTs disappeared quickly from the lots, leaving only Tiptonics to be had. At the most, only 20% were ever produced. Owing to its relatively low production numbers, Audi decided not to produce any more. Same with the R8. BTW, the B8 S4 was never available with a 6MT in Europe.

Right, but that was towards end of production. I wonder what it was like during the 2012-2014 MY.

[L0U]

I think manual should be a choice, but the dual clutch really has no benefits vs the 8 speed auto in a sport luxury. Only a road course racetrack or a 1/4 mile drag strip makes the dsg shine. The performance of the eight speed has improved enough that the dual clutch has lost its advantage in a daily driver.

[jmaddr]

Is it true the B9 will based brake based torque vectoring? What does that mean for the availability of our sport diff/crown center combo? Sounds like another step back for the B9. Brake based TV solutions, while feeling pretty much the same, obviously are not ideal.


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[Reckon]

I saw a beautiful B9 A4......bet it was an S-line as it was sharp. Had what looked like rotors on it but it was rolling slow so I couldn't tell for sure. IMO looked like a larger A3/S3 which flowed nicely. Way better in person than pics and vids I've seen. Not sure about the interior but there too I'm sure it will grow on people once they see it in person.

I'm not too concerned as my 2014 is very nice and the updates are more timeless given they are really just incremental. I'll likely upgrade to an S6 or S7 or even an RS7 next.....if I say four rings.

My thoughts exactly. I have seen one on the road and it was distinguishable enough to realize it was the B9. Looks good in person and on the road, from the outside at least. I am sure the B9 S4 will do well and be a great drive. My next car will probably be an S6, same as yourself, so I look forward to seeing how they apply the new styling and technology going forward.

[Pyromatic177]

I saw an B9 A4 S-line at an auto show and I liked the interior minus the iPad screen. It was def more modern. I just wish that they threw an actual tachometer on the dash.

[hodrosS42001]

Good Info..

60 degree V... hmm

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/audi/a4/first-drives/2016-audi-s4-review

[BaumerS4]

More than the tranny, the thing that will keep me out of the B9 is the terrible interior and the stupid iPad stuck on the dashboard.

Agree wholeheartedly. I can handle the upgrades outside, but the tacked on iPad is an awful look. And the center console is a mess. The cupholders are in the front and slightly "uphill" from the MMI controls, so you can count on any liquid spills causing big issues there. Plus they left the volume know in about the same place it is now, but moved the rest of the controls. So you've got to slide your hand over and also back a ways from the rest of the controls to change the volume. Only reason I can see this as acceptable is the fact that you've got an auto trans only, so there's never any reason to take you hands off of the steering wheel and its MMI controls.

And obligatory "Why no 6MT...?!?!?!"

[RudyH]

Even so, what about the S3...it's cheaper, more powerful. To be honest the A3 / S3 is the better buy anyway -> minus the Haldex. IMO the Torsen vs Haldex isn't $10k+ better especially when you start looking at companies that are tuning the Haldex and getting phenomenal results

[CrownSeven]

Even so, what about the S3...it's cheaper, more powerful. To be honest the A3 / S3 is the better buy anyway -> minus the Haldex. IMO the Torsen vs Haldex isn't $10k+ better especially when you start looking at companies that are tuning the Haldex and getting phenomenal results

Its cheaper, and the interior shows. If you want something thats costs less and is faster (with a tune) then I'd go for a Golf R all day long over an S3.

[Dippy]

I probably spend too much time on car forums :( but one thing is immediately apparent to me is that the subject of manual vs auto comes up far more amongst Americans than Europeans. I don't think this proves Audi's point one way or the other, but it suggests that maybe Europeans are simply more accepting of the transition to auto. Certainly the reason that most cars in Europe are manuals is cost, since as has already been pointed out cars are more expensive over here. Amazingly manufacturers still get away with charging customers more to have a diesel engine than a petrol engine. I'm not sure what Audi's justification was in 2012, but in Europe the S4 and S5 where ONLY available in s-tronic form. The manual box was for US exports only. So Audi can kind of get away with stating that most Europeans prefer automatics because for the last 4 years 100% of their European customers bought an S4 or S5 with s-tronic!

Until 2015 I had only ever owned cars with a manual gearbox and my experience of autos was with the occasional rental with one of those bad early torque converter boxes. So I was a bit apprehensive about swapping my B5 S4 for a B8.5 S5. But I love it. I don't think I would willingly go back to a manual now. But I do understand those who prefer manuals. However unfortunately I think that such people who also like performance cars are going to see fewer and fewer possibilities in the years ahead.

[superswiss]

Is it true the B9 will based brake based torque vectoring? What does that mean for the availability of our sport diff/crown center combo? Sounds like another step back for the B9. Brake based TV solutions, while feeling pretty much the same, obviously are not ideal.


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Nothing new. The B8/8.5 RS4/5 already have brake based torque vectoring in addition to the sport diff, so does the B8.5 S4/5 S-tronic (not 6MT, though). Brake based torque vectoring is a feature of the new self-locking center differentials such as the crown-gear and works in conjunction with the optional sport diff. Just means the car rotates even better and you still get torque vectoring even if you decide to skip the sport differential. The brake based torque vectoring acts on both the front and rear axle, so it tucks in the nose, while the sport differential overdrives the rear. It's quite phenomenal actually.

[Eric_C]

All those hoping or expecting the 8 speed to be as good as the DSG will be waiting a long time.

Unless they totally revamped it the 8 speed in our SQ5 is terrible. Terrible in my expectations should be for it. Upshifts are fast, yes but everywhere else the trans pales in comparison to the DSG in my S4. Harsh and rough shifts is my biggest complaint.

My DSG on the other hand is butter smooth all the time. I hear a lot of complaints about harshness and other issues but mine has been flawless.

The DSG set the car apart. I like manuals but for a performance DD in traffic I am completely sold on DCT trans. A Macan Turbo will replace the SQ5 and I'll keep the S4 until I find something else I like, the new smaller Porsche might be it.

If I wanted a fast 6 cylinder turbo 8 speed I could do a ton of work to and make fast I would have bought a 335 like everyone else.

I am all about power and speed, the S4 is one of the few cars where the engine/trans combo was so good the amount of power did not matter as much. Even if it was a Turbo 6 and DSG I don't know how I'd feel. The PD Blower makes it feel like an electric car.

Now a Turbo 6 with the new electric turbo charger for instant boost and a DSG I would have looked hard at that.

[RudyH]

Its cheaper, and the interior shows. If you want something thats costs less and is faster (with a tune) then I'd go for a Golf R all day long over an S3.

Ya that's true, unless you want a sedan - though B9 S4 vs RS3 I suppose it really $ for $ what to compare, which has me definitely happy to get into the latter.

Keeping in mind, they only had the A4 at the dealership, but I wasn't overly impressed comparing a B9 A4 to a S3. It did feel more spacious, but everything else felt like you had to be in your 50's to drive it. Despised that shifter. You are right though, it was that in between an A3 and A6.

@Eric_C, wasn't going to quote everything you stated there, but I have a STRONG feeling the reason they have not put the DCT is NOTHING to do with reliability, power or any other excuse the forum is making for it. I think it is this :
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/01/porsche-spy-shots-pajun-panamera/

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/391/100/1/S3911001/slug/l/porsche-pajun-05-1.jpg

Just like how the RS7 'can't handle the power with a DCT' but oddly the Panamera Turbo S can...everything this pointing to the fact it is actually running on the same shared platform as the B9

[will13k7]

I dont' know that the nose has been stretched
When I looked at it in various angles, in person, I saw at least the optical illusion of stretch due to a flatter looking nose with its flatter looking headlights that seem to wrap around more, if your looking at in 2d, it's not as noticeable. maybe it's just me, but I didn't like it as much. maybe it will grow on me?

[Ze_Nardo6]

Everyone who owns a model that is being replaced bashes the newer car before it comes out...then, when it usually outperforms the previous model, they see the pros of the new model.

I agree the loss of the 6MT is a big blow though, hard to come back from that.

I ordered my wife a b9 A4 with sport package and s-line package with the bigger 19" wheels. The sport package on these cars lowers the car 23mm so it sits nicely above the bigger wheels. I'm pretty excited to see what that will look like.

[FWP!]

No 6MT = I'm out.

If I'm stuck with an automatic car I mind as well go with a Tesla..

I've driven nothing but manuals since I started driving. But after test driving the '16 DSG, I was mighty impressed and took the car home that day.

Pretty disappointing they're going back to a regular slushbox autotragic. I'm betting they want to push people into more expensive models that have the better transmissions.

[RudyH]

Everyone who owns a model that is being replaced bashes the newer car before it comes out...then, when it usually outperforms the previous model, they see the pros of the new model.

I agree the loss of the 6MT is a big blow though, hard to come back from that.


I was in love with the B9 S4 because it ALMOST left off where the B8.5 did. The transmission choice (or lack there of), length, HU controls, and after thought display is my problem with it. Three of which are easy fixes for me in the B9.5 by Audi...I m sure the old man shift knob is an easy aftermarket swap, but honestly I havent thought about how Park would work. I thought the B8 shifter on the Stronic was terrible

[ebarberena]

Here is a review from a magazine that actually gives an opinion rather than copying/pasting the manufacturer's press release. What do you think? No surprises for me.

http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/s4/17828/audi-s4-review-impressive-sports-saloon-lacks-final-sharp-edge

[shoe3k]

I'm thinking that the new motor will be the soul of the car but won't be too critical until I can test drive the damn thing. If the B9 S4 fails my expectations, I can only hope that Audi brings the RS4 over.

[doug97gxe]

Everyone who owns a model that is being replaced bashes the newer car before it comes out...then, when it usually outperforms the previous model, they see the pros of the new model.

I agree the loss of the 6MT is a big blow though, hard to come back from that.

I ordered my wife a b9 A4 with sport package and s-line package with the bigger 19" wheels. The sport package on these cars lowers the car 23mm so it sits nicely above the bigger wheels. I'm pretty excited to see what that will look like.

i made this comment in the 5' forum as well.. a lot of people who bash newer model's is because they can't afford them

[vwblackb5]

i made this comment in the 5' forum as well.. a lot of people who bash newer model's is because they can't afford them

Lol there's a good majority that fit in that category but not all.




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[doug97gxe]

Lol there's a good majority that fit in that category but not all.




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yup and as i said in the '5 forum .. "SOME" because i knew people would take offense

[S4 00 2.7]

i made this comment in the 5' forum as well.. a lot of people who bash newer model's is because they can't afford them

I have seen this before and agree. there is always a few that do just that.

[vwblackb5]

i made this comment in the 5' forum as well.. a lot of people who bash newer model's is because they can't afford them


yup and as i said in the '5 forum .. "SOME" because i knew people would take offense

Bro, do you even YOLO Roadmap it like the rest of us LOL

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/vwblackb5/YOLO_RoadMap_V1_zpsmtxo1nwj.png

[CrownSeven]

i made this comment in the 5' forum as well.. a lot of people who bash newer model's is because they can't afford them

Man this subforum is going downhill fast.

LOL wow - ok sure thats why 'some' of us do not like the new model - its all about status now eh?

Well I guess Doug Demuro must be in the poor house big time since he hates Audi's entire refreshed linup, starting off with the s4:

http://jalopnik.com/audi-got-lazy-1781522684

[doug97gxe]

Man this subforum is going downhill fast.

LOL wow - ok sure thats why 'some' of us do not like the new model - its all about status now eh?

Well I guess Doug Demuro must be in the poor house big time since he hates Audi's entire refreshed linup, starting off with the s4:

http://jalopnik.com/audi-got-lazy-1781522684

If it doesn't apply to you why would you take offense .. Everyone one is tip toe'ing around it like its not true in some cases.. Relax if it's not you ignore it


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[Ze_Nardo6]

i made this comment in the 5' forum as well.. a lot of people who bash newer model's is because they can't afford them

I don't think that is the main issue, it may be for a few but I don't think for most. Enthusiasts who are passionate about their cars don't want to see a "better" model replace theirs. It makes theirs feel old, obsolete. Again, this is a blanket statement, obviously does not apply across the board. I'm sure several enthusiasts love when new generations are released so they can upgrade to the latest and greatest.

[doug97gxe]

I don't think that is the main issue, it may be for a few but I don't think for most. Enthusiasts who are passionate about their cars don't want to see a "better" model replace theirs. It makes theirs feel old, obsolete. Again, this is a blanket statement, obviously does not apply across the board. I'm sure several enthusiasts love when new generations are released so they can upgrade to the latest and greatest.

I think that's also another factor u hit the nail on the head.. My comment really came from seeing ppl bash the B8.5 '5 for years and then said they liked it and would get it over the B9 .. So I was like wait weeks ago y'all hated the B8.5


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[simbat]

The B9 S4 was already available in Europe and the B9 A4 was on the dealer lots when I made my decision to get a B8.5 S4 6MT . I was staying away from Audi for the last 12 years mainly because the lack of performance Avant models and the poor reliability record. All this time I was an Audi fan driving other brands. After seeing what the outcome for the future is I decided if I don't buy an S4 now I will probably never drive Audi again. Pretty happy about my choose. Only regret I have It's not a wagon so I would have to get a second vehicle- an old truck or land cruiser for hauling boat, kayaks and garden stuff from home depot...

If the B9 S4 was available in wagon here I would probably have considered it, but as a sedan with auto transmission and ipad display on the dash I feel good I went wit the B8.5 S4 :-) No regrets here for sure

http://www.audi.de/de/brand/de/neuwagen/a4/s4-avant.html

[Dippy]

The B9 S4 was already available in Europe and the B9 A4 was on the dealer lots when I made my decision to get a B8.5 S4 6MT . I was staying away from Audi for the last 12 years mainly because the lack of performance Avant models and the poor reliability record. All this time I was an Audi fan driving other brands. After seeing what the outcome for the future is I decided if I don't buy an S4 now I will probably never drive Audi again. Pretty happy about my choose. Only regret I have It's not a wagon so I would have to get a second vehicle- an old truck or land cruiser for hauling boat, kayaks and garden stuff from home depot...

If the B9 S4 was available in wagon here I would probably have considered it, but as a sedan with auto transmission and ipad display on the dash I feel good I went wit the B8.5 S4 :-) No regrets here for sure

http://www.audi.de/de/brand/de/neuwagen/a4/s4-avant.html

What makes you think that the B9 S4 is available in Europe? You even provide a link to the Audi Germany site where there is no pricing shown for the S4 models.

[doug97gxe]

Bro, do you even YOLO Roadmap it like the rest of us LOL

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/vwblackb5/YOLO_RoadMap_V1_zpsmtxo1nwj.png

LOL

[Bordom]

I don't think that is the main issue, it may be for a few but I don't think for most. Enthusiasts who are passionate about their cars don't want to see a "better" model replace theirs. It makes theirs feel old, obsolete. Again, this is a blanket statement, obviously does not apply across the board. I'm sure several enthusiasts love when new generations are released so they can upgrade to the latest and greatest.
Hahaha, B5 S4 for lyfe! [emoji23]

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

[The Fat Kid]

Bro, do you even YOLO Roadmap it like the rest of us LOL

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/vwblackb5/YOLO_RoadMap_V1_zpsmtxo1nwj.png

Nice! I can afford to upgrade from the S4, but lately I have been LOVING the freedom that comes with driving our city beater.

[RudyH]

I think that's also another factor u hit the nail on the head.. My comment really came from seeing ppl bash the B8.5 '5 for years and then said they liked it and would get it over the B9 .. So I was like wait weeks ago y'all hated the B8.5


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ha this is more true. I hated the B8.5 only for it's steering. I got over it because all cars now come with PS3 steering wheels now, just going to deal with it. Others hated the styling, which personally I loved, but couldn't justify the depreciation hit for a new bumper / head and tail lights. Inside my B8 looks oddly familiar to a B8.5 though...I think this is what you meant by 'they can't afford it'...which is ummm true I guess for people that don't throw their money around on a whim.

The B9 S4, I despise for having a ZF slush box...however all performance cars are coming with DCT's. So cross roads, as long as I don't get into an accident I'll hold on to the B8 till I feel excited about something. It's the same feeling of when I couldn't trade in my B5 S4 for something I felt was great, B6/7 going backwards to a gas guzzling V8, 'that sounded really awesome' but would spend stupid amounts of money to keep up with what I have. Then the B8 arrived and the world started revolving normal again, the passion was back.

For the B9, new styling, V6 turbo, interior, virtual dash, sexy S4 super sport seats, lighter chassis, bigger brakes vs transmission, after thought display...yes the +'s out weigh the -'s significantly, and if I could even have a 6MT I would be on board yesterday.

[droopy1592]

I'm already looking at a Camaro ss, the m2, and a golf r as my next car because I'm putting 25k a year on this car and will be at 150k in 2.5 years. B9 is fugly and no man just takes the icing off of the cake and pisses on the cake

The b8.5 will be my last Audi for a while