B8 vs. B9 S4

[A4Ultrasport]

Hello - as someone who plans to hang on to my manual B8 S4 for a long time, I enjoyed the below article. Curious to see if others agree, or disagree ...

http://jalopnik.com/does-the-new-aud...ter-1780993532

[doug97gxe]

that BO S4 is beautiful

[Dannydyn]

That's why I'll be buying my B8.5 out at the end of the lease.... no 6MT? F that.

[douglasjboehme]

Jay Leno's garage YouTube series did a review of the new R8 and he was also saddened by the lost of the 6MT and gated shifter. Audi's response? It's faster to have paddle shifters instead of MT and most Europeans don't like to drive an MT. I wonder how true this really is or is just someone stating an opinion hoping for it to become fact.

[minman26]

For the majority of owners (i.e. non-enthusiasts) I think it's an improvement all around. More power, less weight, better interior, and a better DD transmission. I think the TC transmission will be better than most expect and not have some of the quirks of a DCT. Also I think the turbo aftermarket is going to blow away the current SC that it seems is just about tapped out.

[bmoreS4]

Yeah, makes me glad I grabbed a b8.5

[pfft]

Audi's response? It's faster to have paddle shifters instead of MT and most Europeans don't like to drive an MT. I wonder how true this really is or is just someone stating an opinion hoping for it to become fact.

It is true. At least in a straight line 0-100. It's also true that automatic car sales dramatically trump manual car sales. Being true doesn't mean it's not a bummer to lose the manual (it is), and manual drivers will always love the manual, but the dollars (i.e. sales) speak the truth.

[Hofahome]

I'm only jealous of the motor, which will likely be more tuner friendly/upgradable than ours. The rest is kind of meh so I really see no reason to trade mine in. It looks like a passat with sharper lines. Audi design is going backwards. Just look at the new A5. Besides a DB9, the current model is probably one of the best looking modern cars.

[ALAN12186]

b9 s4 is fugly looking

[TexasDfwS4]

This is a platform for the newcomer. If you have the B8/B8.5, then this is nothing new just dressed up a little. I will keep the old and next ride will be RS....

[minman26]

In response to the article, I think it definitely still matters and will be quite competitive with its rivals. I'm not planning on trading in my '14 for one, but if I am looking for a new car in a couple years it would still be on my radar.

[Zaxon55]

Yep, just read this and headed here. I will go drive a B9 at some point and make a true judgement call, but there is nothing that is making me regret my B8 purchase.

[Race Shooter]

More than the tranny, the thing that will keep me out of the B9 is the terrible interior and the stupid iPad stuck on the dashboard.

[doughboy17]

More than the tranny, the thing that will keep me out of the B9 is the terrible interior and the stupid iPad stuck on the dashboard.

Exactly!

[silverf0x]

No 6MT = I'm out.

If I'm stuck with an automatic car I mind as well go with a Tesla..

[RudyH]

The B9 S4 is officially irrelevant....keep your B8/B8.5 until this...we were spoiled with for the past 10 yrs, evolved into a new monster...'Porsche Pajun'

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/01/p...ajun-panamera/

I'm onboard with the others, grab a 6MT if you can (B8.5) and wait

[DOCEVG]

I sold my DSG B8, and bought a 6MT B8.5 (and kept my 6MT B8). Really glad I did. Not impressed with the B9.

[hotleadsingergu]

Jay Leno's garage YouTube series did a review of the new R8 and he was also saddened by the lost of the 6MT and gated shifter. Audi's response? It's faster to have paddle shifters instead of MT and most Europeans don't like to drive an MT. I wonder how true this really is or is just someone stating an opinion hoping for it to become fact.

It's absolutely true.

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/...ck-shifts.html

Modern automatic transmissions are *much* faster, more fuel-efficient, more power-efficient, and are sold at a much higher rate. According to the article, only 3.9% of cars sold that year were sold as Manual. At that point, it's not worth making.

[golfinz]

Well, my next car might just be a newer B8.5 S4, or if I jump brands a c63

[douglasjboehme]

Sorry, what I meant to say was "do Europeans actually prefer auto over MT". Definitely faster and the facts prove it.

[bmoreS4]

I'm mad they dumped DSG, that and the new look is just not doing it for me.

[Lensch09]

Sorry, what I meant to say was "do Europeans actually prefer auto over MT". Definitely faster and the facts prove it.

Most Germans I know PREFER the manual over any type of Auto. I lived in Germany for 3 years, and know LOTS of them of all age groups.

No manual = DUMB.

How difficult would it be to slap a manual into the new B9? Not very, not even a little bit. Hell, Getrag even has one that already works. You wouldn't be able to do the "free-wheeling" lame BS. But, at that point, who really gives a damn? We are talking about a consumer base that are going to shell out 55-70k for a 350+ hp sport sedan. Does Audi actually expect that any of us actually care about fuel economy, particularly when the delta could be something as trivial as from say 25mpg highway, to 22? That's absurd.

As a brand loyal consumer for the last 12 years, I can honestly say that Audi can go piss up a rope at this point, as far as I'm concerned. If I HAVE to buy a new sport sedan, Ill be looking at BMW. If not, I'll keep my B8.5, and go buy a track car (that surprisingly, will also not be an Audi because of their refusal to install a third pedal).

Mark my words, more moves like this WILL bite Audi in the long run...

And lastly, for those of us who have been around FOREVER, remind us again how a tiptronic is going to be more reliable than the updated mechatronic DSGs? That's laughable (especially coming from a non-DSG fan).

-DL

[Lensch09]

Best quote in the comments on Jalopnik:

"It is a nice looking car, but it's turning into something I'd buy because I wanted a nicer Taurus SHO, and not something I'd buy if I wanted a hot performance sedan."

Nail on the head...

-DL

[vwblackb5]

Another vote for b9 being bleh. Drove a C7 A6 as a loaner and if it's any indication of how a TC tranny will be, the B9 tranny with No MT/DSG option will prob suck just as bad.

Glad I got my B8.5 now. Hopefully Audi NA brings the B9!RS4 over if not, F80 M3 time.


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[joediesel]

Glad I got my B8.5 now. Hopefully Audi NA brings the B9!RS4 over if not, F80 M3 time.

+1

[cval3]

This is a platform for the newcomer. If you have the B8/B8.5, then this is nothing new just dressed up a little. I will keep the old and next ride will be RS....

My exact plan as well

[zps123]

no wagon no buy

[Senseless]

Yes, the sell rate for manuals overall is very low. But cars like the S4, Miata, Corvette, Mustang GT probably have significant amount of buyers taking manual transmissions. A stripped economy car with manual can be drudgery. But a powerful sports car mated to a great stick is a wonderful thing to drive. It's not about track times at all.

[superswiss]

Yes, the sell rate for manuals overall is very low. But cars like the S4, Miata, Corvette, Mustang GT probably have significant amount of buyers taking manual transmissions. A stripped economy car with manual can be drudgery. But a powerful sports car mated to a great stick is a wonderful thing to drive. It's not about track times at all.

It depends on the car. Miatas and Corvettes are outliers, but for Audi it's below 10% and dropping in markets where they offer both. There was an interview with the quattro Gmbh bosses a couple of years ago where they talked about this. The introduction of the DSG in cars such as the TT RS and R8 was followed by steep declines in demand for manual transmissions. Audi still offers plenty of lower end models with manual transmissions and they are popular even among Europeans, but for different reasons. In Europe for many, a manual transmission is a matter of saving money. The higher up you move in the luxury and performance food chain, the fewer customers are interested in a manual transmission.

EDIT: Found the interview. Starts at around 18:00 and at around 19:40 he speaks the painful (for 6MT lovers) truth.

[jsh139]

It all comes down to money. I wonder how many 6MT cars wasted away on the lots during the peak of B8/B9 production and had to be sold at a discount? That would certainly cause dealers to not request allocation for them from Audi.

At this point, it would be better for Audi to offer the manual as a custom option and charge a little premium for it. I'd pay it if it meant that was the only way to get one new.

[CrownSeven]

That's why I'll be buying my B8.5 out at the end of the lease.... no 6MT? F that.

Most Europeans don't like driving MT???? Thats a bunch of bull. We vacation there every year and ended up buying a car to keep there as its cheaper than renting. Good luck trying to find an automatic anything - its manuals everywhere.

[superswiss]

Most Europeans don't like driving MT???? Thats a bunch of bull. We vacation there every year and ended up buying a car to keep there as its cheaper than renting. Good luck trying to find an automatic anything - its manuals everywhere.

Do you know why? Because, it's the cheaper option. Automatic transmissions are found on higher end models with bigger engines. Those are more expensive cars not just from an acquisition standpoint, but also from a tax standpoint. In much of Europe, taxes on cars are based on displacement and it gets steep the higher up you go. Most Europeans buy small cars, with small engines and are not willing to pay a premium for an automatic transmission. It's a very different mindset, trust me, I grew up in Europe. The S4 is an expensive car in Europe. Europeans make less, pay more in taxes and car prices are significantly higher than what we pay for the same car here, so not many people can afford an S4 and those who do don't need to save a few bucks by opting for the cheaper manual transmission.

[Lensch09]

The introduction of the DSG in cars such as the TT RS and R8 was followed by steep declines in demand for manual transmissions.

Operative acronym here being "DSG." New S4 has a standard transmission/tiptronic and is not offering a 6MT or a DSG. Fail.

-DL

[superswiss]

Operative acronym here being "DSG." New S4 has a standard transmission/tiptronic and is not offering a 6MT or a DSG. Fail.

-DL

Absolutely correct, however more and more ZF8 implementations are rivaling dual-clutch transmissions. RS7 for example. Torque converter locks pretty much immediately, so you get that same locked drivetrain feel and no automatic upshift at redline in manual mode. It's just a matter of time. As much as I'm not a big fan of the ZF8, other than in the RS7, until I've driven a B9 S4, I reserve my judgment.

[S4 00 2.7]

Well, my next car might just be a newer B8.5 S4, or if I jump brands a c63

c63 > s4 any day

[Dr GP]

[QUOTE=jsh139;11673712] I wonder how many 6MT cars wasted away on the lots during the peak of B8/B9 production and had to be sold at a discount? That would certainly cause dealers to not request allocation for them from Audi.


Answer would be NONE! Especially in 2016, the 6MTs disappeared quickly from the lots, leaving only Tiptonics to be had. At the most, only 20% were ever produced. Owing to its relatively low production numbers, Audi decided not to produce any more. Same with the R8. BTW, the B8 S4 was never available with a 6MT in Europe.

[hodrosS42001]

Everyone will complain about the B9.. until it blows the doors off the B8/B8.5 in pure speed/tune-ability/mod-ability and technology. Easily a future 10s car with minimal mods

[superswiss]

[QUOTE=Dr GP;11673831]

BTW, the B8 S4 was never available with a 6MT in Europe.

The B8.5 wasn't, but the B8 was.

[vwblackb5]

Everyone will complain about the B9.. until it blows the doors off the B8/B8.5 in pure speed/tune-ability/mod-ability and technology. Easily a future 10s car with minimal mods

Each replacement in theory should be an improvement over the predecessor. No doubt the power output, weight, and tech of B9 will be better than b8/.5 in quantifiable metrics but that doesn't mean everyone will adopt/like it.

Everything right now is conjecture and speculation until they officially release this thing. Imho the B9 to me is just blehh. Speaking for myself, I sure hope Audi NA brings the RS4 over here. If not I'm jumping ship to an F80 M3 as a stop gap (one more car) before diving into the many delicious P-Car flavors.


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[pdqgp]

I saw a beautiful B9 A4......bet it was an S-line as it was sharp. Had what looked like rotors on it but it was rolling slow so I couldn't tell for sure. IMO looked like a larger A3/S3 which flowed nicely. Way better in person than pics and vids I've seen. Not sure about the interior but there too I'm sure it will grow on people once they see it in person.

I'm not too concerned as my 2014 is very nice and the updates are more timeless given they are really just incremental. I'll likely upgrade to an S6 or S7 or even an RS7 next.....if I say four rings.