Are my new wheels safe to run?

[RyanJon]

So I bought some new 20's in et38, when they turned up I'd been sent et32 with 6mm machined off them to make them et38. Now I've been told by my tyre guy that 6mm will take a lot of strength out of them and looking at the amount of depth left in the bolt holes I can see where he's coming from.

Is anyone else running machined wheels or have any experience of doing so?

I regularly have my sisters kids in my car so safety is paramount and I don't want a wheel shearing off on the motorway!

[Rshane]

I wouldn't take chances with the only thing between you and the road.

[hotleadsingergu]

Not a chance. Why they heck would they machine off 6mm instead of just ordering/machining the correct depth?

[sebgreen]

6mm is a massive amount - don't even consider it.


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[Dr GP]

Send them back

[RyanJon]

I didn't machine them, I ordered the right size and this is what I was sent. I questioned it at the time and was told it was nothing to worry about. If it was a simple job I'd send them back but they came all the way from America and cost $600 postage in the first place! So I've now got a $2k set of wheels that have only scrap value!

[switchedstance]

I've had 2 sets of wheels on previous cars that were "decked down" (machined) to attain perfect fitment. Have done 5mm without an issue. It really depends on the thickness of the backpad. Make sure the lug seats have sufficient material at the thinnest point.

[JeromeS13]

The most important question is, who manufactured the wheels? Is it a trusted company? Perhaps they engineer the wheels to allow for these modifications.

[RyanJon]

Are some wheels designed to be machines down then?

These ones have approx 4mm of straight metal left after the taper in the bolt holes if you know what I mean so I assume originally there would have been the taper followed by 10mm of depth which has now lost 60% and is down to 4mm.

The more I think about this the more I think I've had my pants pulled down!

[audibmi]

something else to consider...stock bolt length will be 6mm longer than needed and depending on clearance, may bottom out on the hub, preventing wheels from spinning.

[LYKUNO]

Ouch, the vendor you purchased them from should stand behind them and offer you a refund or some sort of compensation. Basically, you were sold an unsafe product, which puts you life, your passengers, and others at risk should a wheel (or multiple wheels) fail while at speed. Have you contacted the company to inquire as to a solution? If the company you purchased them from is not the manufacturer of the wheels, I would also contact the manufacturer to inform them of what was done to their product. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be co-defendants in a lawsuit over the safety of their wheels. Put your concerns in writing and send to the vendor you purchased from, and send a copy to the manufacturer (so that the vendor is aware that the manufacturer is on notice). I would expect them to make this right for you, and send you a brand new set that is properly manufactured to ensure your satisfaction and safety. Properly handled, getting those wheels replaced should cost you nothing but your time in sending off a letter/email. Stand up for your rights!

[eurotic]

Are some wheels designed to be machines down then?

These ones have approx 4mm of straight metal left after the taper in the bolt holes if you know what I mean so I assume originally there would have been the taper followed by 10mm of depth which has now lost 60% and is down to 4mm.

The more I think about this the more I think I've had my pants pulled down!

4mm of metal does not sound like a lot but how does that compare to the stock wheels you are replacing? I haven't ever measured the stock rim but I just ran out and checked my VMR wheels and they actually seem to only have about 4mm as well. To measure I took a sliding caliper, and measuring from the back pushed the depth probe to the point where it lined up with the bottom edge of the seat. Have you done the same measurement on your stock wheels? How do they compare?

It sounds like your new wheels are cone seat so did you get new bolts with the wheels (many after market wheels use cone seat while Audi wheels use ball seat)? If you have different wheel bolts is the threaded part the same length as the stock bolts? If they are, with the wheel off the car take a wheel bolt put it in the wheel and see how much of the threads poke out. Do this on your new wheels and on the stock wheels and compare. Now that said, if they sent you bolts that are shorter than stock, this test is invalid.

[RyanJon]

Ouch, the vendor you purchased them from should stand behind them and offer you a refund or some sort of compensation. Basically, you were sold an unsafe product, which puts you life, your passengers, and others at risk should a wheel (or multiple wheels) fail while at speed. Have you contacted the company to inquire as to a solution? If the company you purchased them from is not the manufacturer of the wheels, I would also contact the manufacturer to inform them of what was done to their product. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be co-defendants in a lawsuit over the safety of their wheels. Put your concerns in writing and send to the vendor you purchased from, and send a copy to the manufacturer (so that the vendor is aware that the manufacturer is on notice). I would expect them to make this right for you, and send you a brand new set that is properly manufactured to ensure your satisfaction and safety. Properly handled, getting those wheels replaced should cost you nothing but your time in sending off a letter/email. Stand up for your rights!

I don't know if I have any rights seeing as I'm in the uk and I bought them from the USA?

[RyanJon]

4mm of metal does not sound like a lot but how does that compare to the stock wheels you are replacing? I haven't ever measured the stock rim but I just ran out and checked my VMR wheels and they actually seem to only have about 4mm as well. To measure I took a sliding caliper, and measuring from the back pushed the depth probe to the point where it lined up with the bottom edge of the seat. Have you done the same measurement on your stock wheels? How do they compare?

It sounds like your new wheels are cone seat so did you get new bolts with the wheels (many after market wheels use cone seat while Audi wheels use ball seat)? If you have different wheel bolts is the threaded part the same length as the stock bolts? If they are, with the wheel off the car take a wheel bolt put it in the wheel and see how much of the threads poke out. Do this on your new wheels and on the stock wheels and compare. Now that said, if they sent you bolts that are shorter than stock, this test is invalid.

They are cone seat and I was sent some shorter studs with them.

I'd have thought when a set of wheels are manufactured they have to be tested to make sure they are upto the job? (over here they carry a European standard mark). Then if they're tested with 10mm of 'meat' and 6mm is removed they're not going to have been tested in the state I've been sent them and the only way to test if they're safe is to run them and risk my life, my passengers lives and the lives of every other road user?

[torinalth]

the machining can be just fine. VMR builds their wheels to a certain spec then bores the hub and machines the back to fit a particular car. Now,sure some might not work that way, but just saying it is unsafe is not necessarily correct.

[Hofahome]

You paid for the wheels and they are not accurate to your spec. Return them. OR:

1. Get an email from them saying its safe
2. Videotape your wheels getting put on by a shop
3. If/when you crash because of a loose wheel, do what us Americans love and sue the crap out of them
4. Profit

[LINDW4LL]

the machining can be just fine. VMR builds their wheels to a certain spec then bores the hub and machines the back to fit a particular car. Now,sure some might not work that way, but just saying it is unsafe is not necessarily correct.
Right? I was under the impression that many cast wheel companies do it in that manner- change offsets by machining the hub, instead of having to make a separate casting for every available offset.

[Race Shooter]

You need to contact the manufacturer and find out from them if this is ok for their wheel.

Its perfectly acceptable and done that way specifically on many kinds of wheels. It allows for the manufacturer or supplier to stock fewer skus and have fewer raw stock on hand. I bought some TSW wheels many years ago and the supplier only stocked a few "blanks" then would machine them down to the proper offset for the application.

Sounds like your company knew what they were doing if they even supplied you with the proper length wheel bolts to match the wheel thickness.

I wouldnt jump to any conclusion about these being unsafe, like many of the less than informed posters did here, talk to the manufacturer and verify that there is still enough meat on the wheel and that this was within their parameters. If they say its ok, then run them and dont worry about it.

[Skyler@Achtuning]

The area that you want to check is the pad thickness of the lug seats, the typical thickness in this area on an Audi wheel is 8mm (between the mounting face of the wheel and the bottom of the ball or cone seat of the lug). If this was 8mm and is now 2mm the wheels are scrap.

[RyanJon]

The area that you want to check is the pad thickness of the lug seats, the typical thickness in this area on an Audi wheel is 8mm (between the mounting face of the wheel and the bottom of the ball or cone seat of the lug). If this was 8mm and is now 2mm the wheels are scrap.

I've just had a quick measure and there is 4mm left so with 6mm removed they must have started out at 10mm.

So I'm at 50% of what a standard Audi wheel comes with and 40% of what the wheel was made with

[eurotic]

I've just had a quick measure and there is 4mm left so with 6mm removed they must have started out at 10mm.

So I'm at 50% of what a standard Audi wheel comes with and 40% of what the wheel was made with

I think I'm going to get some putty or similar and take an impression of my VMR because I think it's only 4mm thick but I want to get a better measurement. I agree with Race Shooter, call the company and see what they say.

[LINDW4LL]

I've just had a quick measure and there is 4mm left so with 6mm removed they must have started out at 10mm.
I will reiterate what the above poster said- contact the manufacturer with your concerns and see what they say.

What brand are the wheels?

Second, and not of great importance, but I'm curious- How did you come to realize they were machined down to et32? Were they stamped et38?

[RyanJon]

I will reiterate what the above poster said- contact the manufacturer with your concerns and see what they say.

What brand are the wheels?

Second, and not of great importance, but I'm curious- How did you come to realize they were machined down to et32? Were they stamped et38?

I unpacked them and saw et32 stamped on the back, got in touch with the seller thinking they'd sent me the wrong wheels. They said they don't usually do it but they had no 38 in stock so sent some 32's to the machine shop. If they'd have told me they had none in stock I'd have been happy to wait until they did have or if not I'd have had my money back.

[XxSullyxX123]

Dispute with your credit card company if they don't take these back and eat the shipping. That's ridiculous. No way should u bear the brunt of this.

[XxSullyxX123]

and by the way if the seller is an authorized vendor on here, and they don't take care of u, please let us all know.

[RyanJon]

Dispute with your credit card company if they don't take these back and eat the shipping. That's ridiculous. No way should u bear the brunt of this.

I can't even see any reason they would want them back tbh as for me they only hold scrap value as they wont be able to sell them on to anyone else!

- - - Updated - - -


and by the way if the seller is an authorized vendor on here, and they don't take care of u, please let us all know.
And yes they are and I bought them off here!

[XxSullyxX123]

I can't even see any reason they would want them back tbh as for me they only hold scrap value as they wont be able to sell them on to anyone else!

- - - Updated - - -


And yes they are and I bought them off here!

What they would or wouldn't want them back for isn't your problem. You didn't get what u paid for. Your got Modified wheels that may or may not be safe.


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[torinalth]

wow, mean you guys are petty. simple process. call the maker, not vendor, of the wheels and ask about it. post who the MFG is, some of us have extensive relationships with certain manufacturers and can offer insight or get better answers others might not be able to get.

[RyanJon]

wow, mean you guys are petty. simple process. call the maker, not vendor, of the wheels and ask about it. post who the MFG is, some of us have extensive relationships with certain manufacturers and can offer insight or get better answers others might not be able to get.

I can't find a website for the manufacturer or I would have done already

[XxSullyxX123]

I can't find a website for the manufacturer or I would have done already

Any reason why you arent telling us either whom the manufacturer is or the vendor that sold em to u?


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[RyanJon]

Any reason why you arent telling us either whom the manufacturer is or the vendor that sold em to u?


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No reason really, just don't normally post things like this and wanted to make sure it wasn't me being a wimp. But by the sounds of it most people wouldn't be happy in my situation and wouldn't want to risk running wheels that are modified from the manufacturers approved standard.

If there is something I've missed and it's all above board I'll gladly hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong but I feel I've had my pants pulled down to the tune of $2k

There Renn Motorsport bought off sonic tuning through here

[LINDW4LL]

[email protected]


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[torinalth]

sonic is a well reputed company so i'd be surprised if they done screwed up, but any company is fallible. I don't have dealing with renn myself, but a good chance someone else on here does. but deff email them with his link. something we need to remember is that on our cars the lugs do nothing but hold the wheel to the hub, the actual weight bearing is on the hub ring its self. yes we can talk about shear forces, but i'm not that worried until renn says they are no good.

[RyanJon]

sonic is a well reputed company so i'd be surprised if they done screwed up, but any company is fallible. I don't have dealing with renn myself, but a good chance someone else on here does. but deff email them with his link. something we need to remember is that on our cars the lugs do nothing but hold the wheel to the hub, the actual weight bearing is on the hub ring its self. yes we can talk about shear forces, but i'm not that worried until renn says they are no good.

Renn don't even have a website tho which I find strange. As far as I can tell, and I may be barking up the wrong tree, Renn and sonic are the same people? I think Renn is possibly a name made up by sonic and put on the wheels and spacers that are made by a 3rd party as they are the only firm that seems to sell them?

[mattro]

I'd say there's nothing to worry about, but get a confirmation from Sonic.
By most people's standards on here steelies sound like a terrible idea. You'd be surprised at how little metal you need to hold your wheel to the hub. Yes there's 4mm left after the taper, but from where the taper starts you have what, 15-20mm ? That's the thickness that counts.

[hotleadsingergu]

Right? I was under the impression that many cast wheel companies do it in that manner- change offsets by machining the hub, instead of having to make a separate casting for every available offset.

True, but some wheels come created to different offsets which actually changes the concavity of the wheel. More offset = more concavity, in those cases.

[RyanJon]

I'd say there's nothing to worry about, but get a confirmation from Sonic.
By most people's standards on here steelies sound like a terrible idea. You'd be surprised at how little metal you need to hold your wheel to the hub. Yes there's 4mm left after the taper, but from where the taper starts you have what, 15-20mm ? That's the thickness that counts.

I can see what your saying but I've still been sent something different than what I ordered.

Say next summer I see a different set of wheels that catch my eye, I've then got to try and sell some machined wheels on which most people would run a mile from, where as a standard set would still hold a value.

[Race Shooter]

Renn don't even have a website tho which I find strange. As far as I can tell, and I may be barking up the wrong tree, Renn and sonic are the same people? I think Renn is possibly a name made up by sonic and put on the wheels and spacers that are made by a 3rd party as they are the only firm that seems to sell them?

So if you think that is the case and Sonic is saying they're ok to run, why are you still having an issue? I mean, if you simply do not want them, that is your prerogative, but to say they're unsafe is not really fair, especially if the vendor/manufacturer is the one that did it and says they're within spec.

[RyanJon]

So if you think that is the case and Sonic is saying they're ok to run, why are you still having an issue? I mean, if you simply do not want them, that is your prerogative, but to say they're unsafe is not really fair, especially if the vendor/manufacturer is the one that did it and says they're within spec.

I think there made for sonic by a manufacturer somewhere in the east, and have been modified from the tested and approved standard wheel in the USA. My wheels have et32 stamped in the rear yet they're now et38. Ive been told off my tyre guy that he thinks they're unsafe and he wouldn't want to mount my tyres for me. I've had plenty of sets of wheels in my time and still hold onto a few sets and they've all got a lot more lug depth than these modified wheels have.

[torinalth]

it is possible. I have no insight into renn, so I can't comment on them specifically. I did make a call however and got some general information from another source. Apparently the process of machining to fit is fairly wide as far as opinions. some seem to think its fine to shave a lot, others say a flat out no. In this one instance, they used to machine wheels, but have since changed their process and now cast and forged as needed to specific offsets and then stopped entertaining alternate fitments due to concern about machining. That said they can accept a few mm being trimmed off the back plate, but at least per their standards the 6mm is more than they would be comfortable with and would not have suggested it to a client and certainly would not have done it in house. I didn't think about getting a "minimum back plate thickness" from their opinion though so I am not sure if their "safe allowances" are within the same thickness as the renn or not. With this in mind, I'd be fairly concerned about running them for longevity.

I would call sonic (after talking with renn if possible) and state your concern and that you want assurances that the wheels will be taken care of in the event they crack or break due to the thinner back plate. If they can't do anything beyond a standard warranty I'd let them know your concerns are not being addressed and you would either like a refund or a non machined set of wheels of the appropriate offset. again, contingent on a response from renn or of sonic ignored your concern.

[Race Shooter]

I can see what your saying but I've still been sent something different than what I ordered.

Say next summer I see a different set of wheels that catch my eye, I've then got to try and sell some machined wheels on which most people would run a mile from, where as a standard set would still hold a value.

So you've gone from worrying about whether they're safe or not to resale value?


I think there made for sonic by a manufacturer somewhere in the east, and have been modified from the tested and approved standard wheel in the USA. My wheels have et32 stamped in the rear yet they're now et38. Ive been told off my tyre guy that he thinks they're unsafe and he wouldn't want to mount my tyres for me. I've had plenty of sets of wheels in my time and still hold onto a few sets and they've all got a lot more lug depth than these modified wheels have.

But you do not KNOW that or that they're unsafe.

Its very likely that the 32 and 38 wheels are actually the same exact wheel, just machined differently and stamped differently. Most wheels are not molded to all the different offsets they're available in unless you're talking custom made and fully forged wheels. They're made and then drilled and machined to the various offsets, which is why sometimes the same wheel will vary in weight based on its offset.

However, you obviously just do not trust Sonic and are worrying about resale value, so you'll never be happy with them or comfortable owning them. So the only answer is to return them regardless of what it costs to do so.

[RyanJon]

So you've gone from worrying about whether they're safe or not to resale value?



But you do not KNOW that or that they're unsafe.

Its very likely that the 32 and 38 wheels are actually the same exact wheel, just machined differently and stamped differently. Most wheels are not molded to all the different offsets they're available in unless you're talking custom made and fully forged wheels. They're made and then drilled and machined to the various offsets, which is why sometimes the same wheel will vary in weight based on its offset.

However, you obviously just do not trust Sonic and are worrying about resale value, so you'll never be happy with them or comfortable owning them. So the only answer is to return them regardless of what it costs to do so.

Maybe you've got the wrong end of the stick or not read all the comments before? To save keep going over the same ground I've just put my thoughts down in said post, of which you've latched onto, disregarded everything said before and I'm now just thinking about resale value? Give me a break pal!

I do not know they are unsafe, I also do not know they are safe either. What I do know is that if a wheel falls off while I have my 3 & 5 year old nephews in my car my sister will probably be out to kill me.

I've just been through my messages received off sonic, before they sent me the wheels they pm'd me telling me that they have s4 customers who have fitted 20x9 et32 and it gives them a really nice flush fit. Luckily I have a bit of an idea about offset and fitment and realised that wheels in this size would have no chance of fitting. Maybe alarm bells should have rang at that point? Maybe they were trying to push me a set of wheels they knew wouldn't fit? I don't really know.

[RyanJon]

it is possible. I have no insight into renn, so I can't comment on them specifically. I did make a call however and got some general information from another source. Apparently the process of machining to fit is fairly wide as far as opinions. some seem to think its fine to shave a lot, others say a flat out no. In this one instance, they used to machine wheels, but have since changed their process and now cast and forged as needed to specific offsets and then stopped entertaining alternate fitments due to concern about machining. That said they can accept a few mm being trimmed off the back plate, but at least per their standards the 6mm is more than they would be comfortable with and would not have suggested it to a client and certainly would not have done it in house. I didn't think about getting a "minimum back plate thickness" from their opinion though so I am not sure if their "safe allowances" are within the same thickness as the renn or not. With this in mind, I'd be fairly concerned about running them for longevity.

I would call sonic (after talking with renn if possible) and state your concern and that you want assurances that the wheels will be taken care of in the event they crack or break due to the thinner back plate. If they can't do anything beyond a standard warranty I'd let them know your concerns are not being addressed and you would either like a refund or a non machined set of wheels of the appropriate offset. again, contingent on a response from renn or of sonic ignored your concern.

Thanks pal, at least you understand my concerns!

[RyanJon]

Bit of an update for anyone who's interested.

I've been onto sonic tuning, apparently 6mm is the most they can take off the wheels and keep the structural integrity.

I asked how do you know this?

They say all wheels are bench and road tested.

I have now asked 3 times have an et32 machined to et38 been bench and road tested?

They are now ignoring me and not replying to my pm's

Where do I stand?

I was sent something other than what I ordered which I don't think are safe and only have scrap value for $2k.

Would anyone else be happy with this or is it just me?

[Daocommand]

Man, I am really sorry for what has happened here for you. I used to work at a chain tire store here in the U.S. and I once ran into this with my own vehicle. The Manager had told me at the time, any machining work done on a wheel AFTER it was shipped originally is a bad idea. However, some people here are more knowledgeable in the area of modifying wheels post original shipment.

I am one of those, if I am not sure about something, I am not budging. I wouldn't run them and I would definitely get a FULL refund and have THEM eat the return shipping. This is based on the fact they modified the wheels without your permission.

[Race Shooter]

Bit of an update for anyone who's interested.

I've been onto sonic tuning, apparently 6mm is the most they can take off the wheels and keep the structural integrity.

I asked how do you know this?

They say all wheels are bench and road tested.

So there you have it, they're safe to run. But of course that isnt the answer you wanted to hear.


I have now asked 3 times have an et32 machined to et38 been bench and road tested?

They are now ignoring me and not replying to my pm's

And so would I. Your question was answered, and yet you still doubt them. I'd stop responding as well because its painfully obvious nothing they tell you at this point is what you want to hear.


Where do I stand?

You have a set of wheels you can run, or you can send them back. But I wouldnt expect them to reimburse you shipping since it would be your decision to not trust them and send them back at this point.


I was sent something other than what I ordered which I don't think are safe and only have scrap value for $2k.

Actually, you got exactly what you ordered, a set of ET38 wheels that are safe. YOU dont think they're safe, what engineering degree do you have? They told you they are, what would possibly satisfy you at this point?


Would anyone else be happy with this or is it just me?

I'd have moved on a long time ago as soon as I got the first ok from the vendor. Do you really think they're knowingly selling you something unsafe and putting them in the position of a lawsuit on purpose?

But I'm sure that isnt the answer you want and you wont be satisfied till a bunch of people on a random website that have no direct knowledge of these wheels agree with you that they're unsafe.

Good Luck.

[torinalth]

Not sure what to say. If they are insistent on it working fine, then you might want to consider that they are fine to run. If they have stopped taking your calls and messages then it's probably safe to presume they will also ignore a request for return especially if you are demanding they foot the bill for shipping like suggested above. Really you are in a crap situation. If you do like and do want the wheels, then you need to decide if they are lying to you or if they truly do test the wheels. Considering your options i'd probably run the wheels as is. Speaking of the testing they would never test every set, but a sample set for each design more than likely do it once, test, and then have it for reference.

your only other option is to dispute with the credit card company and see if you can force sonic into taking them back that way. While I hate it for you, I'm glad it happened to someone so I know to write off Sonic Tuning from a potential purchase going forward.

[RyanJon]

So there you have it, they're safe to run. But of course that isnt the answer you wanted to hear.



And so would I. Your question was answered, and yet you still doubt them. I'd stop responding as well because its painfully obvious nothing they tell you at this point is what you want to hear.



You have a set of wheels you can run, or you can send them back. But I wouldnt expect them to reimburse you shipping since it would be your decision to not trust them and send them back at this point.



Actually, you got exactly what you ordered, a set of ET38 wheels that are safe. YOU dont think they're safe, what engineering degree do you have? They told you they are, what would possibly satisfy you at this point?



I'd have moved on a long time ago as soon as I got the first ok from the vendor. Do you really think they're knowingly selling you something unsafe and putting them in the position of a lawsuit on purpose?

But I'm sure that isnt the answer you want and you wont be satisfied till a bunch of people on a random website that have no direct knowledge of these wheels agree with you that they're unsafe.

Good Luck.

You must be one trusting upstanding gent, willing to put the lives of yourself, your family and every other road user at risk because nobody on forums tells lies and a business man had never took a chance to make a quick buck.

I ordered an et38, I received an et32 machined to et38 so In actual fact I didn't receive what I ordered.

I do not believe for one minute that sonic tuning and Renn Motorsport have taken an et32 wheel and taken 1mm off at a time and road and bench tested them until the point when the metal fatigues and breaks, hence not answering my question.

They told me 6mm is the absolute maximum that can be removed safely.

If this is the case then my wheels are absolute boarder line with zero factor of safety.

FYI im an electrical engineer by trade so I do work in engineering, just not the type were talking here.

[JD S4]

So there you have it, they're safe to run. But of course that isnt the answer you wanted to hear.



And so would I. Your question was answered, and yet you still doubt them. I'd stop responding as well because its painfully obvious nothing they tell you at this point is what you want to hear.



You have a set of wheels you can run, or you can send them back. But I wouldnt expect them to reimburse you shipping since it would be your decision to not trust them and send them back at this point.



Actually, you got exactly what you ordered, a set of ET38 wheels that are safe. YOU dont think they're safe, what engineering degree do you have? They told you they are, what would possibly satisfy you at this point?



I'd have moved on a long time ago as soon as I got the first ok from the vendor. Do you really think they're knowingly selling you something unsafe and putting them in the position of a lawsuit on purpose?

But I'm sure that isnt the answer you want and you wont be satisfied till a bunch of people on a random website that have no direct knowledge of these wheels agree with you that they're unsafe.

Good Luck.

How long have you been working for Sonic?

[JD S4]

I'd be INCREDIBLY upset about this situation if I were OP..

Additionally, if this WERE the resale market - I wouldn't buy those wheels. Not a prayer.

I also wouldn't trust them with my 3 and 5 year olds in.. I'd be asking for a return.. If the vendor is an AZ sponsor - even more so reason to do the right thing. This is something you need to discuss beforehand.. Can't just ship something like this and say "deal with it"..

I'd be a LOT less civil than RyanJon is and I like to think I'm very reasonable.

[Skyler@Achtuning]

RyanJon, what was your method of payment if you don't mind me asking?

[LINDW4LL]

A credit card chargeback would solve this in a hurry here in the US. I'm not sure how your credit card laws work being in the UK.

[RyanJon]

RyanJon, what was your method of payment if you don't mind me asking?

I paid with a credit card, I don't know if they would understand what machining and offsets were though but I suppose it's worth a try

[RyanJon]

How long have you been working for Sonic?

They were my thoughts exactly!

But then again every forum has the troll who will argue black is white

[XxSullyxX123]

Frankly I'm kind of surprised how lax and trusting some of these posters in this thread are about the wheels. Everyone would be "fine" to run em, since they aren't their wheels lol.

I mentioned earlier call your Credit card company and have them deal with it.

I wouldn't buy em resale either. If they asked your permission , and said that's the only set they had , and you OKed it, that would be a different story. That's not what happened. I'd want a full refund. Let them learn better business for the next time that you can't just modify something like that.


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[RyanJon]

Frankly I'm kind of surprised how lax and trusting some of these posters in this thread are about the wheels. Everyone would be "fine" to run em, since they aren't their wheels lol.

I mentioned earlier call your Credit card company and have them deal with it.

I wouldn't buy em resale either. If they asked your permission , and said that's the only set they had , and you OKed it, that would be a different story. That's not what happened. I'd want a full refund. Let them learn better business for the next time that you can't just modify something like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

I thought I'd give sonic a chance to maybe put things right but as they are now ignoring my pm's I can't see any other option than to call my credit card company

[nunzo]

wheel designer and engineer checking in [az]

cast wheels are designed for an offset range per specific face profile. it might be 0-25mm, might be 0-75mm.

the manufacturer will test for worst-case conditions, which in the case of a casting is the fitment with the least amount of material

after that is verified, then production starts and wheels are finish machined for offset, bolt pattern, and detailing, then painted and packaged.

there are some company (including mine) who will order some blank wheels and finish them stateside in the event of odd bolt patterns and/or offsets.

as mentioned earlier, you want that thickness between the bottom edge of the bolt seat and the back of the hub pad to be approx 8mm. anything less than that would run into the range below testing thickness and could compromise the structural integrity of the wheel at the hub.

[RyanJon]

wheel designer and engineer checking in [az]

cast wheels are designed for an offset range per specific face profile. it might be 0-25mm, might be 0-75mm.

the manufacturer will test for worst-case conditions, which in the case of a casting is the fitment with the least amount of material

after that is verified, then production starts and wheels are finish machined for offset, bolt pattern, and detailing, then painted and packaged.

there are some company (including mine) who will order some blank wheels and finish them stateside in the event of odd bolt patterns and/or offsets.

as mentioned earlier, you want that thickness between the bottom edge of the bolt seat and the back of the hub pad to be approx 8mm. anything less than that would run into the range below testing thickness and could compromise the structural integrity of the wheel at the hub.

Thank you very much, I was aware that certain wheels were designed this way to be drilled and machined to different fitments.

These wheels have et32 cast into them so they are not "blanks" per say.

The measurement you quote as beeding to be 8mm, is in fact 4mm on my wheels

[Race Shooter]

How long have you been working for Sonic?

I dont, nor have I ever done any business with them.

However, I have been playing with modified cars for over 25 years and I have seen how some things are done.

I have, personally ran wheels that have been machined EXACTLY as this poster is talking about. If the company says they're safe, you have nothing to go against that and either trust them or you dont.

A lot of people here are thinking that Sonic is trying to put something over on him and I just feel that would be absolutely assinine for Sonic to be doing and have a hard time believing it.

We put our trust in these companies all the time. We tune are cars with computer programs where all it takes is one line of code to be off and we can blow our engines.

We put springs and suspension parts on our cars that can lead to catastrophic damage if something fails. People dont seem to have any issue running a control arm put out by a company with a handful of employees, but yet here someone machines a wheel (a perfectly acceptable practice when done right) and you all are jumping down their throat like their out to murder this poster.

I'm not a sales person, nor am I overly trusting. But I'm not a wheel engineer, so I have to have some trust in the company selling me a product and what they say. If you cannot trust what they say, then you must lead a very paranoid life.

Even the wheel engineer on here said that wheels are designed for a specific range of offsets and tested to work within a range.

If Sonic has said that the wheels have been tested to allow for up to 6mm to be taken off, then you need to accept that.

I just dont see the big issue here. It just sounds like some incredibly paranoid people trying to lynch a company without any specific knowledge or info on the situation. I mean no one here has even seen the wheels or know what they look like or how they've been machined or how much material is left. How is he measuring, or is he estimating by eye? We know NOTHING.

However you're all here to lynch the company that actually did the machining and says they're ok to run. I'm sorry, I just do not get it. I'm betting if this was HRE or BBS that said the same thing, no one would be questioning it at all.

I honestly dont give a shit about the poster or Sonic Tuning or what the outcome of this is. He came on here asking a question of a bunch of random forum people before he even did any research himself. A question that NONE of us can actually answer. A bunch of people with ZERO knowledge of the situation chimed in with "OMG THAT IS SO AWFUL, SEND THEM BACK," then a few people that actually had good points gave their input. The OP didnt like what he was hearing from anyone that actually gave an educated response, so he continued to make excuses and ask the question till he gets what he wants to hear.

Its obvious he doesn't trust Sonic even if they give him an educated answer. They told them it was safe to run and he continued to question them hoping to get another answer.

Are his wheels safe? That is the question and NONE of us can answer that. The only ones qualified to do so are Sonic. He either trusts the answer he gets or he doesnt. But its obvious his mind was made up before he ever came here.

Good luck with life.

[Race Shooter]

I'll add one more thing to show that I'm not a complete and utter asshole.

Would I have been a little upset when opening a box to find machined wheels? Yes I would have. I agree, Sonic should probably have let you know what they were doing and gave you a heads up and an option to decide on what to do.

But, and BE HONEST, if they had called and said they could safely machine the wheels and they would be perfectly safe and completely warranted and you could have your wheels immediately or you would have to wait 6 months for other ones, would you really have doubted them and thought they were trying to screw you over and said no, or accepted their explanation?

Again, they probably should have warned you, and I likely would have been upset.

But, after I got on the phone with them and they gave me a legit response saying that this is safe for those wheels, I would have calmed down and accepted their word for it. That is all I've been trying to say. Its not an uncommon practice and you need to get over the initial disappointment or anger and try to listen to what they're saying.

Anyway, good luck with your decision and I apologize for laying into you so hard.

[LYKUNO]

Interesting discussion about this topic (machining wheel hubs to achieve a desired offset) on a BMW forum. Here's the link (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=917056&page=3). One point that was made that I haven't seen in this AZ thread is whether the wheel seller (Sonic?) provided the OP with new wheel bolts. If the hub was machined down to increase offset, then it would seem that the wheel bolt lengths would have to be similarly shorter than the normal length. If standard length wheel bolts were used and were tightened down into the brake hub, there could be interface with the brake rotors turning. We've all heard stories about people using wheel bolts that were used with spacers when the spacers were removed and rotors were locked up because the extra length of the bolts when too far into the rotor.

[LINDW4LL]

He touched on that. By studs, I assume he's referring to lug bolts.


They are cone seat and I was sent some shorter studs with them.

[LYKUNO]

He touched on that. By studs, I assume he's referring to lug bolts.

Ah, thanks, I missed that comment. Found one more thread, this time on a Subaru forum, about this topic here (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=611601). I still wonder about liability, if there was an accident caused by wheel(s) failure, and a subsequent forensic investigation. How many parties would potentially be at fault? The wheel manufacturer, the seller who sold the modified wheels (and perhaps their staff who made the modifications), and the owner/driver of the vehicle? In a litigation-happy society (at least here in the US), I wouldn't want to take a chance on those wheels, or jeopardize passengers and others safety.

[RyanJon]

I'll add one more thing to show that I'm not a complete and utter asshole.

Would I have been a little upset when opening a box to find machined wheels? Yes I would have. I agree, Sonic should probably have let you know what they were doing and gave you a heads up and an option to decide on what to do.

But, and BE HONEST, if they had called and said they could safely machine the wheels and they would be perfectly safe and completely warranted and you could have your wheels immediately or you would have to wait 6 months for other ones, would you really have doubted them and thought they were trying to screw you over and said no, or accepted their explanation?

Again, they probably should have warned you, and I likely would have been upset.

But, after I got on the phone with them and they gave me a legit response saying that this is safe for those wheels, I would have calmed down and accepted their word for it. That is all I've been trying to say. Its not an uncommon practice and you need to get over the initial disappointment or anger and try to listen to what they're saying.

Anyway, good luck with your decision and I apologize for laying into you so hard.

No need to apologise, there's 2 sides to every coin and some people will always have different views.

I honestly would have waited for a set or had my money back, it was winter when I bought them and they only just stopped spreading salt here about 6 weeks ago so I was in no rush to recieve the wheels.

[sonictuning]

Hey RyanJon!! I sent a PM, but just in case I will post it here. [:)]


I know you would love to have a peace of mind with our wheels. We have been in this business for many years producing many wheels along with customizing wheels to personal preferences to many of our customers worldwide. I do understand your point of view in which you are receiving a product that states one thing on the box, but is indeed another. It is a brand new set of wheels, never installed. We will never let a wheel leave our warehouse if we felt it placed our customer endangered. Machining the wheel to fit the offset for your car to create a fitment that will work 100% with your vehicle without any present or future problems is our top priority. The offsets are for made to fit your line of vehicle and machining them to fit did not alter the warranty, the strength, or any resale value as it is set to be installed without complications. I'm sorry that you feel we have ignored you...I truly hope you understand that it was not our intention. We want all of our customers to be happy and feel that they paid for a product that is tested for absolute quality. Many aftermarket wheels are machined to fit vehicles (i.e. Forgestar, MRR, Avant Garde, Vorsteiner) and our Renn Motorsport wheels are not an exception.

[RyanJon]

Hey RyanJon!! I sent a PM, but just in case I will post it here. [:)]


I know you would love to have a peace of mind with our wheels. We have been in this business for many years producing many wheels along with customizing wheels to personal preferences to many of our customers worldwide. I do understand your point of view in which you are receiving a product that states one thing on the box, but is indeed another. It is a brand new set of wheels, never installed. We will never let a wheel leave our warehouse if we felt it placed our customer endangered. Machining the wheel to fit the offset for your car to create a fitment that will work 100% with your vehicle without any present or future problems is our top priority. The offsets are for made to fit your line of vehicle and machining them to fit did not alter the warranty, the strength, or any resale value as it is set to be installed without complications. I'm sorry that you feel we have ignored you...I truly hope you understand that it was not our intention. We want all of our customers to be happy and feel that they paid for a product that is tested for absolute quality. Many aftermarket wheels are machined to fit vehicles (i.e. Forgestar, MRR, Avant Garde, Vorsteiner) and our Renn Motorsport wheels are not an exception.

That's all well and good on paper, it still doesn't take away from the fact that you sent me something other than what I ordered without prior warning.

You say machining will not affect resale value:

If I was looking to buy some second hand wheels, as many other people will agree I certainly wouldn't buy a set that say et32 in the casting yet have been machined to an et38....not if they were the last set of wheels on earth.

I also don't believe that taking 60% of the metal away from the mounting face of the wheel will not affect its structural integrity. There is 4mm of depth left between the taper and the mounting face, if 4mm is enough then why on earth are all these wheel manufacturers wasting all this metal and making them 10mm thick?

[eurotic]

I think the simple question is, for that brand of wheel is machining the standard way they achieve different figments. If not the I agree with you that you didn't get what you ordered. If it is the normal practice then this might just be a something we all just learned. For me I would accept it if they say that is how all et38 wheel in that brand/style are made. If not then I'd be upset as you are.

[RyanJon]

I think the simple question is, for that brand of wheel is machining the standard way they achieve different figments. If not the I agree with you that you didn't get what you ordered. If it is the normal practice then this might just be a something we all just learned. For me I would accept it if they say that is how all et38 wheel in that brand/style are made. If not then I'd be upset as you are.

They do sell a true et38 with 10mm of metal between the tapers and the mounting face but they were out of stock when I ordered so I received a 32 machined to 38.

The 32 on the rear of the wheel is Part of the casting (rather than being stamped in once the final offset is made) so there must be 2 completely different sets of tooling for the 2 different offsets.

[LYKUNO]

IMO, they should have told you that there was a true ET38 available, but that it was out of stock, and then asked if you would be willing to take a ET32 milled down to make it a quasi ET38 instead. If you weren't informed in advance, than it was a heck of an assumption that you would be amenable to having a set of wheels machined to a new ET by someone other than the manufacturer.

[sonictuning]

That's all well and good on paper, it still doesn't take away from the fact that you sent me something other than what I ordered without prior warning.

You say machining will not affect resale value:

If I was looking to buy some second hand wheels, as many other people will agree I certainly wouldn't buy a set that say et32 in the casting yet have been machined to an et38....not if they were the last set of wheels on earth.

I also don't believe that taking 60% of the metal away from the mounting face of the wheel will not affect its structural integrity. There is 4mm of depth left between the taper and the mounting face, if 4mm is enough then why on earth are all these wheel manufacturers wasting all this metal and making them 10mm thick?


I see what you are saying, I think we are on the same page now!!! Excuse me for being a bit confused.

But to clarify, all our wheels are machined, whether it is et38, et32, or any offset. Like most aftermarket wheels, they are machined to fit the offset desired by the customer or to vehicle specs. If we had sent you a et38 wheel, it would have been machined as well to et38 (just like your et32 wheel was machined).

Can I safely say that you thought we sent your wheels somewhere after it was made to get it machined to your offset? If that's the case...

It is done by our factory, we didn't send it to a third party. So your wheels were made on our production line, machined to specs on that same line, then sent to our warehouse to distribute. Your box may have had another label, but it was made to your offset when it was made. Feel free to give us a call if you would like to know more about our process! [:)]

[RyanJon]

I see what you are saying, I think we are on the same page now!!! Excuse me for being a bit confused.

But to clarify, all our wheels are machined, whether it is et38, et32, or any offset. Like most aftermarket wheels, they are machined to fit the offset desired by the customer or to vehicle specs. If we had sent you a et38 wheel, it would have been machined as well to et38 (just like your et32 wheel was machined).

Can I safely say that you thought we sent your wheels somewhere after it was made to get it machined to your offset? If that's the case...

It is done by our factory, we didn't send it to a third party. So your wheels were made on our production line, machined to specs on that same line, then sent to our warehouse to distribute. Your box may have had another label, but it was made to your offset when it was made. Feel free to give us a call if you would like to know more about our process! [:)]

What a load of bollocks

I understand all wheels are machined as part of the finishing process.

Mine have been manufactured and finished as an et32 (most probably in the Far East?)and had another 6mm taken off in America

You told me in a pm that due to your winter sale being better than expected you had run out of stock on et38 hence sending me a machined set!

I don't believe that all your 38 wheels only have 4mm of metal between the taper and the mounting face.

And I'm certain after research down a few different lines that these wheels are not safe

[sonictuning]

What a load of bollocks

I understand all wheels are machined as part of the finishing process.

Mine have been manufactured and finished as an et32 (most probably in the Far East?)and had another 6mm taken off in America

You told me in a pm that due to your winter sale being better than expected you had run out of stock on et38 hence sending me a machined set!

I don't believe that all your 38 wheels only have 4mm of metal between the taper and the mounting face.

And I'm certain after research down a few different lines that these wheels are not safe



Our offer is still valid for the return of the set if none of the information given to you is suitable to your liking. I do understand your concerns, but I have voiced our process and absolutely stand by the safety of our wheels, no matter the offset. We would never send you, or any customer, any wheel that would be deemed unsafe, as it would only jeopardize all we have worked towards as a company for many years. Also, I would never overstep our boundary as a company and force you to use (or keep) a wheel that is unsafe in your opinion. You do not have to keep the set, our target is happiness of our customers.

[RyanJon]

So I pay $1400 for a set of wheels and $600 to have them posted, and import duty that I can't recall the cost.

They turn up and they are not what I ordered.

You now want me to foot the cost of sending them back to you.

So another $600 dollars spent to recieve $1400 dollars back?

So all in it will have cost me $1200 (in postage each way) to recieve a set of wheels which are not what I ordered?

And your target is happiness of customers?

[RyanJon]

OP says in an earlier post that he was told by a Sonic employee that the ET38 spec he ordered was out of stock, and so an et32 set was sent to the machine shop.



Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt135/RyanJonS4/Mobile%20Uploads/image_12.png (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/RyanJonS4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_12.png.html)

[LINDW4LL]

Yeah, so...




Can I safely say that you thought we sent your wheels somewhere after it was made to get it machined to your offset? If that's the case...

It is done by our factory, we didn't send it to a third party. So your wheels were made on our production line, machined to specs on that same line, then sent to our warehouse to distribute. Your box may have had another label, but it was made to your offset when it was made. Feel free to give us a call if you would like to know more about our process! [:)]

...all of this is bullshit. Great job, Sonic rep!

[eurotic]

It seems like some of the issue here is some poor communication (or maybe it's some bs too) but one way to clear this up would be for sonic tuning to grab an ET38 wheel (same brand/model as the ones sent to the OP) and take video showing the wheel, the ET38 stamp and the backing plate that can clearly show how much material is in the hole for the lug. I think the OP posted a similar picture. Compare the results.

That said, at this point I'm sure happiness is not possible.

[RyanJon]

It seems like some of the issue here is some poor communication (or maybe it's some bs too) but one way to clear this up would be for sonic tuning to grab an ET38 wheel (same brand/model as the ones sent to the OP) and take video showing the wheel, the ET38 stamp and the backing plate that can clearly show how much material is in the hole for the lug. I think the OP posted a similar picture. Compare the results.

That said, at this point I'm sure happiness is not possible.

That would be a great idea, there had been so many contradictions and skirting round questions in their pm's it's laughable!

I asked about testing..."all wheels are bench and road tested"

I asked had an et32 machined to an et38 bench and road tested, their reply...."there is loads of people running an et 32 machined to et 38"

So that says to me it's being road tested on a whim by unsuspecting customers without any bench testing.

[sonictuning]

wheel designer and engineer checking in [az]

cast wheels are designed for an offset range per specific face profile. it might be 0-25mm, might be 0-75mm.

the manufacturer will test for worst-case conditions, which in the case of a casting is the fitment with the least amount of material

after that is verified, then production starts and wheels are finish machined for offset, bolt pattern, and detailing, then painted and packaged.

there are some company (including mine) who will order some blank wheels and finish them stateside in the event of odd bolt patterns and/or offsets.

as mentioned earlier, you want that thickness between the bottom edge of the bolt seat and the back of the hub pad to be approx 8mm. anything less than that would run into the range below testing thickness and could compromise the structural integrity of the wheel at the hub.

Thank you for the explanation, this is the same as Renn's method.

We will locate the wheel testing report for ET38 and send them to you OP.

In the mean time, if you do have any additional questions please call me directly at our office.


Ray

[RyanJon]

Thank you for the explanation, this is the same as Renn's method.

We will locate the wheel testing report for ET38 and send them to you OP.

In the mean time, if you do have any additional questions please call me directly at our office.


Ray

If you could send me the wheel test report for an et32 machined to an et38 please that would be better

[RyanJon]

Have you dug theses wheel test reports out yet?

I'm still $2k dollars out of pocket with a useless set of wheels

[JD S4]

Have you dug theses wheel test reports out yet?

I'm still $2k dollars out of pocket with a useless set of wheels

They are not useless.

They are likely unsafe and definitely de-valued.

But not useless. You could use them as a coffee table. You could put them on your car and risk the safety of you and those around you (especially your niece/nephew). You could use them as step stools in your house. You could hang them on your garage walls and take pictures of your car inside with the stock wheels on. You could use them for paper weights. You could make an art deco book shelf.

They are not useless.

[ALAN12186]

honestly feel bad for you I would personally not run these on my car. Bottom line you did not get what you paid for plain and simple. They did not inform you before hand of what they were doing. Dispute the charge and credit card company will surely understand that. Even if they don't know about wheels they'll understand fraud.

[Race Shooter]

They are not useless.

They are likely unsafe and definitely de-valued.

Christ you people are unbelievable.

They are not "likely unsafe"

First off you havent seen the wheels or have any clue what was or was not done to them. The OP has still failed to show any kind of photo.

Additionally, they got on this very thread and explained that this is how the 38s are made as well as several other people on here saying that its common to machine down a wheel to a proper spec.

This thread needs to be locked so that all the ignorant info can stop being posted and the OP needs to stop posting here and pick up the damn phone and work it out with Sonic.

From the very beginning nothing is going to be solved here since no one on here either made the wheel or even has seen them.

[RyanJon]

Christ you people are unbelievable.

They are not "likely unsafe"

First off you havent seen the wheels or have any clue what was or was not done to them. The OP has still failed to show any kind of photo.

Additionally, they got on this very thread and explained that this is how the 38s are made as well as several other people on here saying that its common to machine down a wheel to a proper spec.

This thread needs to be locked so that all the ignorant info can stop being posted and the OP needs to stop posting here and pick up the damn phone and work it out with Sonic.

From the very beginning nothing is going to be solved here since no one on here either made the wheel or even has seen them.

For a start, this is definitely not how an et38 are made. My wheels have et32 cast into them.

Some manufacturers make a "blank" that is machined to different size and the final size is then marked on the wheel.

These wheels are definitely not "blanks"

I will try and make some time to post you some pics up tomorrow. You clearly want don't believe I've been sent a set of machined wheels, even though sonic have agreed that this is what has been sent. Sonic said they never machine wheels and there is also loads of people running machined wheels over the us and around the world? Make your mind up sonic both can't be true!

If sonic can post a picture or even better a video showing a wheel, with et38 cast into the rear and also showing how deep the lug holes are and how much metal is in the mounting face then I will be happy to fit some tyres and run the wheels, even if it means that next summer when I buy a different summer set I struggle to move these on.

No matter which way you look at it Mr shooter, I've been sent something other than what I ordered, I've been lied to and I've been told 1 thing 1 day only to recieve a total contradiction the next. This does not fill me with confidence and all I'm looking for is some proof and some answers.

[Pared]

I think the issue here is if you want it resolved, either deal with them directly or call your CC company. Calling them out here doesn't seem like something they care about.

Keep the thread updated either way, but bumping looking for a response from them here may not get you far.

I know I will never buy something from them after seeing this.

[sonictuning]

Have you dug theses wheel test reports out yet?

I'm still $2k dollars out of pocket with a useless set of wheels

We apologize about the delay, few of us are out on a new project.

Once we are back in the office, I will make sure to send the report and follow up.

In the mean time feel free to reach me on my cell.

Ray
202.425.5255

[DannyDeez]

For a start, this is definitely not how an et38 are made. My wheels have et32 cast into them.

Some manufacturers make a "blank" that is machined to different size and the final size is then marked on the wheel.

These wheels are definitely not "blanks"

I will try and make some time to post you some pics up tomorrow. You clearly want don't believe I've been sent a set of machined wheels, even though sonic have agreed that this is what has been sent. Sonic said they never machine wheels and there is also loads of people running machined wheels over the us and around the world? Make your mind up sonic both can't be true!

If sonic can post a picture or even better a video showing a wheel, with et38 cast into the rear and also showing how deep the lug holes are and how much metal is in the mounting face then I will be happy to fit some tyres and run the wheels, even if it means that next summer when I buy a different summer set I struggle to move these on.

No matter which way you look at it Mr shooter, I've been sent something other than what I ordered, I've been lied to and I've been told 1 thing 1 day only to recieve a total contradiction the next. This does not fill me with confidence and all I'm looking for is some proof and some answers.

So what ever happened with this?

[chopz33]

Also would like to know

[RyanJon]

Absolutely nothing

Sonic stopped answering my emails and pm's

Audizkne admin said they'd try and help me resolve things but did absolutely nothing

I still have a $2k pile of scrap sat in my spare room

[vanguard12]

Wow unbelievable. You've gotten sonic'ed badly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[chopz33]

i'll buy them for $600 shipped

[kdn0789]

Sonictuning is a reputable dealer. Renn Motorsports has stated that the wheels have been rigorously tested. Every person on this forum that has bought these wheels has had nothing but praise about them. Sonictuning has sent you all the reports and everything necessary for you to have peace of mind. I don't know what more you need to satisfy your needs.

[LYKUNO]

Your best bet may be to sell them locally in the UK, with an "As Is" disclaimer regarding the fact that they have been machined. Have the purchaser sign the sales agreement stating that you have disclosed the modification made to the wheels by Sonic Tuning, and that Sonic Tuning has proclaimed the wheels safe for use. Give them a copy of the email statements made by Sonic, which should ensure you're not on the hook for anything that may happen "down the road".

There are likely many Audi owners near you that would love to have those wheels on their car, and not care a whit about what machining has been done to them. You may have to sell them at a substantial loss from your initial purchase price with shipping, but at least you'll get this unpleasant transaction with Sonic Tuning behind you. The fact that they are still "brand new and unused" should help get them sold quickly.

[RyanJon]

i'll buy them for $600 shipped

Don't think that would cover shipping back from the uk 😂

[RyanJon]

Sonictuning is a reputable dealer. Renn Motorsports has stated that the wheels have been rigorously tested. Every person on this forum that has bought these wheels has had nothing but praise about them. Sonictuning has sent you all the reports and everything necessary for you to have peace of mind. I don't know what more you need to satisfy your needs.

Sonic sent me test specs for an et38 wheel, not an et32 with 6mm shaved off!

They then must think I'm stupid and try and tell me they're the same thing!

I've spoken to someone with an et38 set that doesn't have to run 6mm shortened bolts so they're clearly lying again.

I've no doubt they are a reputable company and get 99.99% of they're business decisions correct yet on this occasion they have not.

I love the wheels myself also and would love to be putting them on my car in the next couple of weeks as my summer set when the winters come off, unfortunately I'm not willing to take the risk.

[RyanJon]

Wow unbelievable. You've gotten sonic'ed badly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

I sure did, last time I import anything in that way. Way to much risk involved!

[RyanJon]

Your best bet may be to sell them locally in the UK, with an "As Is" disclaimer regarding the fact that they have been machined. Have the purchaser sign the sales agreement stating that you have disclosed the modification made to the wheels by Sonic Tuning, and that Sonic Tuning has proclaimed the wheels safe for use. Give them a copy of the email statements made by Sonic, which should ensure you're not on the hook for anything that may happen "down the road".

There are likely many Audi owners near you that would love to have those wheels on their car, and not care a whit about what machining has been done to them. You may have to sell them at a substantial loss from your initial purchase price with shipping, but at least you'll get this unpleasant transaction with Sonic Tuning behind you. The fact that they are still "brand new and unused" should help get them sold quickly.

I'm 100% certain they're not safe to use so wouldn't sell them to anyone tbh pal. Just have to suck it up and move on unfortunately

[vanguard12]

Really so that's it? I guess when Sonic says it is a wrap it is a wrap. Wow. Thanks for posting and I feel bad you had go through this nonsense.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[RyanJon]

Really so that's it? I guess when Sonic says it is a wrap it is a wrap. Wow. Thanks for posting and I feel bad you had go through this nonsense.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

Yeah pretty much, I got them January 16 so not much chance of sorting anything out now. Infortunately really as they were a lovely set of wheels until they where butchered!

[soltez]

Yeah pretty much, I got them January 16 so not much chance of sorting anything out now. Infortunately really as they were a lovely set of wheels until they where butchered!

Sooo why didnt you just chargeback the credit card?

[RyanJon]

Sooo why didnt you just chargeback the credit card?
I've balance transferred twice since then so don't think that's an option

[soltez]

I've balance transferred twice since then so don't think that's an option

Yeah charge back limit is like 4 months here. Still don`t know why you didn``t do it months ago when you saw how they were handling it.

[bokiboki]

I'm really sorry that you had to go through all this crap - couldn't your credit card company do anything for you? If there's that same wheel that's ET38 stock without machining anything available from Sonic (or if machined down to spec but with more than 4 mm thickness left as you are saying and properly labeled E38 and not E32 kind of crap) then they should just ship you the set of those for free and pay you to ship the ones you got back to them - what's the big deal. That's the only way they'd save their face on this forum and prove themselves a reputable shop worth dealing with. They made a mistake not asking you if you'd be OK with them machining the ET32 wheel down to ET38 spec - surely not something you decide for your customer without asking them. And eating the cost of $1200 to make this right and admitting their mistake probably wouldn't bankrupt them either (at least I'd hope so). I won't be getting anything from them just because of this thread for sure. Good luck to you man.

I thought the point of this forum would be helping each other and making things right when something goes wrong - I can't believe that Audizine forum owners/moderators can't work something out with the vendor, we are talking about $1200 and not millions of dollars folks, shame. Kristokes - could you please chime in and tell us all what were you able to do for a fellow forum member here - you sounded like a solid fellow wanting to help out, further improve this forum and set it above others, now here's a chance. Thanks and please don't ban me. :-)

[RyanJon]

I'm really sorry that you had to go through all this crap - couldn't your credit card company do anything for you? If there's that same wheel that's ET38 stock without machining anything available from Sonic (or if machined down to spec but with more than 4 mm thickness left as you are saying and properly labeled E38 and not E32 kind of crap) then they should just ship you the set of those for free and pay you to ship the ones you got back to them - what's the big deal. That's the only way they'd save their face on this forum and prove themselves a reputable shop worth dealing with. They made a mistake not asking you if you'd be OK with them machining the ET32 wheel down to ET38 spec - surely not something you decide for your customer without asking them. And eating the cost of $1200 to make this right and admitting their mistake probably wouldn't bankrupt them either (at least I'd hope so). I won't be getting anything from them just because of this thread for sure. Good luck to you man.

I thought the point of this forum would be helping each other and making things right when something goes wrong - I can't believe that Audizine forum owners/moderators can't work something out with the vendor, we are talking about $1200 and not millions of dollars folks, shame. Kristokes - could you please chime in and tell us all what were you able to do for a fellow forum member here - you sounded like a solid fellow wanting to help out, further improve this forum and set it above others, now here's a chance. Thanks and please don't ban me. :-)

Cheers for the kind words, I won't hold my breath though!

I was surprised earlier that someone has dragged this thread back up, I'd managed to push them to the back of my mind and almost forget about the whole shit situation!

[DannyDeez]

Cheers for the kind words, I won't hold my breath though!

I was surprised earlier that someone has dragged this thread back up, I'd managed to push them to the back of my mind and almost forget about the whole shit situation!

Sorry to bring it back up. For what its worth, I'm 100% in agreement with you. Whoever tells you they're safe is nuts. Its always better to err on the side of caution when it comes to something like this.

I personally won't ever buy something from Sonic Tuning because of how sneaky they were in this whole situation. Im guessing they're losing A LOT more than the $600 it would cost to just pay for your return shipping. If they fully disclosed the specs ahead of time, I'm sure someone would buy them and they could recoup their money that way.

[kristokes]

I have reached out to sonictuning and asked them to chime in with an update. Like many other's have posted in this thread, sonictuning is a reputable company so I doubt they'll let a minor mishap like this ruin their reputation within the community. With that being said, I'm confident that we'll be seeing a solution soon.

[eightamrock]

Wow I was just about to pull the trigger on some CF5s from them. Will hold on that until I see the resolution here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RyanJon]

I have reached out to sonictuning and asked them to chime in with an update. Like many other's have posted in this thread, sonictuning is a reputable company so I doubt they'll let a minor mishap like this ruin their reputation within the community. With that being said, I'm confident that we'll be able to see a solution soon.

Thanks for trying, I doubt it'll help though tbh as they don't think there's anything wrong at all with what they've done.

Their customer service it the worst I've ever come across.

They've told many lies and completely contradicted their selves many times.

They're a large reputable company who have made profit at my loss and conned me out of $2k.

I won't hold my breath for a resolution but thanks anyway!

Ryan

[RyanJon]

Wow I was just about to pull the trigger on some CF5s from them. Will hold on that until I see the resolution here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

U may be waiting a while!

[kristokes]

Thanks for trying, I doubt it'll help though tbh as they don't think there's anything wrong at all with what they've done.

Their customer service it the worst I've ever come across.

They've told many lies and completely contradicted their selves many times.

They're a large reputable company who have made profit at my loss and conned me out of $2k.

I won't hold my breath for a resolution but thanks anyway!

Ryan

Are you able to publicly post these transcripts between you and sonictuning?

[RyanJon]

Are you able to publicly post these transcripts between you and sonictuning?

I have my email conversations between myself and sonic. I think some of the pm's have been deleted due to my inbox being full.

I'm not great with IT so it'll be a struggle but I'm sure I'd find a way

[sonictuning]

Our offer is still valid for the return of the set if none of the information given to you is suitable to your liking. I do understand your concerns, but I have voiced our process and absolutely stand by the SAFETY of our wheels. We would never send you, or any customer, any wheel that would be deemed unsafe, as it would only jeopardize all we have worked towards as a company for many years.

Also, we would never overstep our boundary as a company and force you to use (or keep) a wheel that is unsafe in your opinion. You do not have to keep the set, our target is happiness of our customers.

As stated previously, in numerous conversations, you have options to return the wheels even with the extent of time since the purchase date. If you have questions, you can contact us directly, as always.

[RyanJon]

Our offer is still valid for the return of the set if none of the information given to you is suitable to your liking. I do understand your concerns, but I have voiced our process and absolutely stand by the SAFETY of our wheels. We would never send you, or any customer, any wheel that would be deemed unsafe, as it would only jeopardize all we have worked towards as a company for many years.

Also, we would never overstep our boundary as a company and force you to use (or keep) a wheel that is unsafe in your opinion. You do not have to keep the set, our target is happiness of our customers.

As stated previously, in numerous conversations, you have options to return the wheels even with the extent of time since the purchase date. If you have questions, you can contact us directly, as always.

You've said this before then completely ignored my emails.

You want me to pay $600 to return a set of wheels I paid $600 to have delivered, which are not the wheels I ordered.

You sent me test sheets for an et38 wheel, my set are et32 machined to et38.

You tell me they are the same yet everyone else with et38 wheels doesn't have to run 6mm shortened wheel bolts so something doesn't add up does it?

[RyanJon]

And.....silence