DIY: Motor work, Timing tensioner or anything with the motor and front end

[Allowencer]

Alright Audizine members, you've all been asking for more details on a DIY, especially when it comes to the motor. I will try to assemble everything I can for you all. Bare with me on this as I expect this to be a living thread where it will be updated as I get more pictures while I’m putting my car back together. Feel free to help out as well if you’d like.
The biggest advise I can give you is: organization! Keep bolts together with parts or put them in zip lock/sandwich bags with labels. I either do this, or a combination of using painters or masking tape and tape the bolts to the object they go with. This will save you so many headaches down the road; you’ll thank yourself 10x fold later on.

Tools you will need:
- Have a full set of short and long metric and SAE sockets in ¼”, 3/8” and ½” drive with ratchets and extensions to go with it
- A full set of metric and SAE open end wrenches
- A ‘good’ set of Torx bits. Do not put faith in the Leslie brand Torx bits, they WILL fail on you and you will want to throw something
- A good set of screwdrivers (different lengths of flat head and Phillips)
- I recommend ¼” Torx bits too; that way you can put them on an open end or ratcheting open end in tight places
- A ‘good’ set of triple square bits
- Inch pound torque wrench
- Foot pound torque wrench
- Razors
- Set of picks and scrapers
- For setting the timing, taking the harmonic balancer off, etc., you will need this kit: http://www.toolsource.com/cylinder-tfsi-engine-timing-audi-p-150767.html
- If you are removing the head, you will need this: http://www.toolsource.com/audi-head-bolt-tool-p-114980.html
- If you are going to replace just your timing tensioner, you will need these too: http://www.toolsource.com/locking-audi-p-99938.html

Parts you will need:
If you are doing prevenitive maintenance and are just replacing your timing tensioner and timing set, here is what you will need to replace:
- Upper timing cover gasket
- Camshaft gasket which does into the upper timing cover
- Audi gasket/sealant (some have said you can use a Permatix one; your car, your call)
- New crank bolt with built-in o-ring
- (15x) timing cover bolts
- Latest generation timing tensioner
- Cam sprocket timing chain
- Primary timing guide rail
- Static timing guide rail
- Upper track guide
- (3x) timing guide bolts
- O-Ring inside the intake cam valve control section of the cam bridge / cam control assembly
- Exhaust cam bolt and spacer
- Lower timing cover
- Front crankshaft seal

If you need to dig into the engine more or want to replace more wearing items (which I highly recommend), here is a list of other parts you'll need to replace:
- Oil pump chain tensioner
- Oil pump chain
- Balancing shaft timing chain
- The (3x) balance shaft guide rails
- (5x) bolts for the balance shaft guide rails
- Balance shaft timing tensioner



**** I think it goes without saying, but I gotta say it: tackling this is on your own behalf. I have 15 years of engine experience under me so none of this makes me nervous. You are the best to know if this is something you can tackle or not. I take no responsibility for any mistakes and/or damage that may occur. I’m here to help you when I can though – ask any questions and I’ll reply when I can (I’m pretty active on here though).****

Front bumper / fascia and headlights removal:
- Remove the belly pan; main and front sections from under the car. I believe there’s 7 T30 torx bolts for this.
- Open hood
- Break the wheel bolts loose
- Jack the car up and secure the car on top of jack stands. I recommend to place the jack stands right under the rear lower control arm on each side
- Remove bolt front wheels
- Remove the lock carrier cover; this is right in front of the hood latch, basically sitting on top of the bumper. There’s 5 expanding clip bolts – remove them. Then grab the carrier cover in the center and lift up and towards you.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/ewanh/Grille%20Fitment/3.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/ewanh/Grille%20Fitment/6.jpg
- Disconnect the connector to the outside air sensor (G17)
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/ewanh/Grille%20Fitment/23.jpg
- There might be other connections if you have parking sensors or other features – disconnect what is attached to the bumper. Take your time and investigate all areas
- Remove each side’s wheel well liner; or at least the front half and you can maneuver it over the wheel hub and prop it that way so it’s out of the way. There’s a 10mm plastic nut that holds the liner to the body frame; it’s right by your brake line – remove that. There are then 4 plastic clips (I believe). I find the best way to remove them is if you have a 90* pick, get the pick under the locking tab, pull it back and then pull the clip away. Another method is to use small needle nose pliers, grab the small locking tab away and pull the clip away.
- I ‘think’ you can leave your headlights in if you want, but I highly suggest removing them. This will not only provide you with the extra room you will want to have, but also prevent the possibility from damaging them while working within the engine compartment. In addition, you’ll be able to move wiring harnesses more out of the way to give you more real-estate to work and navigate around the engine compartment.
These steps are for HID headlights as this is what I have; it might be different for the Halogen style headlights:
Turn your headlight switch to ‘0’ and ensure the key is not in the ignition.
There’s a connector right on top of the headlight, disconnect this.
Remove a bolt that is the closest to the grille on each headlight.
On top of the headlight is a bracket that is holding the headlight housing with a bolt going into the frame; it is the closest bolt to the fender on each side – remove that bolt.
Right by the connector you disconnected, there’s another bolt towards the front frame – remove that one.
You should be able to remove the headlight now by removing towards the front of the body. However, there are 2 other bolts, one on each side of the connector, loosen them just a few turns and that should allow the headlight to be removed.
- Next is to remove the headlamp housing mounts. There are 2 bolts on the back sides of the mounts that need to be removed. You can get to them through the wheel well’s or from up top by using a ratcheting open end wrench. I think they are 10mm in size.
- Under the car, there are (2x) T26 bolts, per side, which go into the wheel well guards’ bracket for the front fascia – remove them
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/ewanh/Grille%20Fitment/13.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/ewanh/Grille%20Fitment/14.jpg
- Disconnect the connectors on each side for the fog lights
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/ewanh/Grille%20Fitment/24.jpg
- On each side of the wheel well, there are 2 bolts that hold a bracket which thread into the front fender. It is an odd angle to get to them, the best way I can explain it, the bolts are right behind the side of the bumper, towards the rear. I believe the 2 bolts are 10mm.
- There are (2x) T26 bolts on top of the bumper cover / fascia, one on each side; they are right by the headlight just above the grille – remove them
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/ewanh/Grille%20Fitment/IMG_4841.jpg
- Remove the front fascia / bumper cover and place it to the side
- For more details on this, feel free to use ‘Scottish_A4’s’ great DIY write-up on removing the front bumper / fascia: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/581742-Audi-A4-B8-Bumper-Removal-Grille-Replacement-Guide?p=9479777&viewfull=1#post9479777. You can stop once the front bumper is removed, no need to touch the grille, unless you intend on swapping it out. [Credit: to Scottish_A4 as I used some of his pictures from that thread to fulfill this write-up.]. Keep in mind there are additional steps in this section as you will still need to remove those areas for this job.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7018/26651110890_6964901bdf_k.jpg
- This is what you should be looking at, at this point: https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7353/26320034993_21e0ffee8c_k.jpg https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7658/26651114220_063f46ef8e_k.jpg
https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7178/26651112620_c57e630fd8_k.jpg
Front Impact absorber / crash bar removal:
- Disconnect the connection to the horn and free up the electrical harness; up and out of the way – this is on the passenger side
- There are 2 bolts, I believe they bolt from underneath the impact bar’s brackets; 2 bolts per side.
- Remove the impact absorber / crash bar out of its brackets and set it aside

Intercooler and air intake assembly removal:
- Disconnect the MAF sensor connection
- Unscrew/open up the hose clamp on the intake air duct that’s connected to the air filter housing
- Remove the front air duct that connects into the air filter housing; there are 2 bolts, one on each side – remove them
- Unscrew the 4 bolts which hold the intake housing to the frame and together
- There’s a clip on the left hand side (passenger side) of the housing, unclip it
- Remove the top section of the air filter housing
- Pull up and remove the lower section of the air housing and out of the engine compartment
- Unscrew/open up the clamp on the intake air ducts on each side of the Intercooler
- On the right hand side (driver side) there is a bolt just above the air duct line – remove the bolt
- Remove the Intercooler by sliding it upward from the radiator and then push it to the left hand side (passenger side). Then, the right hand side (driver’s side) should go in a downward direction. Place the Intercooler off to the side.

A/C Condensing Unit:
- This is pretty simple; you do not need to discharge the condensing unit; you will need a few layers of cardboard, some thick foam or something similar and some rope or tie strap
- The condensing unit is held within retaining clamps which sit on the radiators support frame. Just push the clamps towards the ‘inside’ of the engine compartment and then lift the condensing unit out. Once free, swing the condensing unit 90* clockwise, towards the driver’s side fender, place cardboard/foam between the fender and the condensing unit and then tie it up to hold it in place. Go between the frame and then fender and then around the condensing unit to hold it in place.
- This should look familiar to you right now: https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7503/26830376362_a11abe1332_k.jpg
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7279/26830375062_635fa40137_k.jpg

Radiator:
- Drain the coolant out of the radiator and the lower end of the cooling system. Do this by getting a catch bucket/pale and lay it on the floor towards the driver’s side. You will see the lower radiator hose and there will be a small knob which is the drain plug. Close by you will see the drain outlet port. Unscrew the drain plug as far as you can go (be cautious with it as it might be ‘stuck’; you don’t want to break it). Coolant will start to dribble/slowly drain out. This motor is a closed coolant system, you will need to open up the coolant reservoir top in order to allow air to come into the system which will increase the drainage flow. Heads up, the second you do this, the coolant drain stream will increase and you will more than likely have to re-position your catch pan/bucket.
- There is an airbag sensor around this area (I cannot recall exactly where). Unbolt the sensor and tie it up safely and out of the way. Keep in mind to not ‘shock’ (physically) this sensor when working in the area
- Once drained, raise the retaining clip system on the lower radiator hose that goes into the radiator then remove the hose from the radiator
- Do the same for the upper radiator hose as you did for the lower hose
- Plug each hoses with shop rags or shop towels to soak up the coolant that will slowly drain out and also to prevent any debris from getting into the hoses
- Disconnect the fan connection; slide the retainer on the connection back and then press down on the release to disconnect
- If you have an Automatic transmission, there are 2 trans lines that run into the radiator. There’s a bolt for each line, remove each bolt and then disconnect the line from the radiator (transmission fluid will drain out). Secure the lines upwards to prevent further draining and cover the lines with something (tape, cups, etc.) to avoid any debris potentially entering the open line
- I’m fuzzy from here, but I believe there are brackets, up top, on each side for the radiator, remove them by unbolting the bolts and then pick up the radiator, removing it from the lower support and place the radiator, with the fans still connected, aside. https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7541/26830373192_2ccd545838_k.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7499/26830372312_c82be19874_k.jpg

Lock carrier / front frame clip:
- There are 2 braces; one on each side, that need to be removed at the bottom of the carrier (technically they would be under the car, but everything is accessible to you now). There’s a nut that is on the other side of the embedded bolt which goes through an area of the subframe – remove the nut. Then there’s a bolt that goes through the brace and into the lock carrier / front clip – remove that bolt. Place the bolt and nut with the braces aside
- There are 2 Torx bolts on top; one per side that need to be removed. I think they are T40’s. Remove them and the whole lock carrier will be free – have another person handy or do what I do and use your feet/legs to balance it and bring it to the ground [;)]
At this point you should be able to hug your motor if you want to LOL; however, if you’re doing this, I think the last thing you want to do is hug it.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7725/26830371362_cfdf1a11fb_k.jpg
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7454/26830370202_b3c549fca2_k.jpg

Verify timing; also upper timing cover removal:
Note: you can achieve this without having to take the whole front of the car apart. You will just have to take the belly pan sections off (I described that above). It might be kinda hard to line up the harmonic balancer’s notch to the TDC marking on the front cover from under the car, but it’s achievable.
This is a good verification if you reassembled everything or received the car back from a shop and are having timing trouble (like a P0016 code).
- At this point you should verify your physical cam timing. To start, remove the upper timing cover by unscrewing the (5x) T30 bolts in the cover; Note: the bolts will not come out as they have grommets which hold them in by the upper timing cover’s gasket
https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7238/26320054053_dcb5d0d454_k.jpg
There’s a bolt on top and then one to the left and the right. You will also need to take the bolt out that is holding the pseudo dipstick/breather tube (or you have made it into a dipstick like I have).
https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7615/26923922295_7c1cdff4f2_k.jpg
Two more bolts are towards the bottom of the cover (you can see them unscrewed out in this pic):
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7778/26923920545_6318c7ca7a_k.jpg
Remove the cover and set it aside.
- You will come face to face with the exhaust and intake cam sprockets:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7436/26320037193_84ebda5f85_k.jpg
- The goal is to get the notches that are in each cam sprocket to be at a top position. Do NOT go by any paint marking that you might find - these cannot be used to ID true marking. You might find paint markings if your engine had stage 2 oil consumption carried out on it or possible because of other motor work. Specifically in regards to orientation, the exhaust cam’s sprocket (left hand side/passenger’s side) at a ~11:30 o’clock position and the intake cam’s sprocket (right hand side/driver’s side) to almost a 12:30-1 o’clock position. To add, there are 3 links on the chain which are ‘marked’ (a different color). Those marks should line up right over the notches on the sprockets. Pictured below, you can see the notches in the sprockets; for the exhaust cam it’s at ~2 o’clock position and ~1 o’clock position on the intake. 2 links behind from the exhaust’s cam’s marking is the ‘marked’ link and 2 links ahead on the intake’s cam’s sprocket is the ‘marked’ link: https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7066/26319985193_6e157b8494_k.jpg
To note: this is NOT how it should look, I used this picture to show what to look for
Now, it might take up to 20 revolutions of the crank in order to get the markings to line up. The
- Here is an impasse though, if you have got the P0016 code, you may not ever be able to get the timing to line up and you really won’t know how bad your timing is until you take the lower timing cover off so you can see where the timing mark literally is in relation to the crank sprocket is. Having said that, you make the call if you want/need to do this procedure. I’d rather you not be sitting there and turning the crank over and over to where your arm is about to fall off and it never does line up. However, if you’re carrying out this procedure because you received the car back from a shop and tripped the P0016 code, this is a good starting point. If after 30+ revolutions the timing does not match up, I hate to say it, but you’re going to have to remove the front of the car and open up the lower timing cover to 100% verify where everything is at.
- To turn the crank / rotate the motor, use a 24mm socket on the crank bolt and rotate the harmonic balancer pulley in a clockwise direction.
- If you see the chain ‘jump’, much like a bicycle chain when you switch gears, you know the timing tensioner is shot for sure.
- Here is the Cylinder #1/Piston #1 TDC timing mark on the harmonic balancer pulley and the small indentation on the front cover (look closely and you’ll see the ‘–‘ indentation on the cover):
https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7619/26319995453_0b04163147_k.jpg
You might have to clean off the grime and oil on your front cover to actually see the marking
- This marking means that piston #1 is at TDC when lined up; however, it doesn’t verify what ‘stroke’ that cylinder is in. This is why you have to watch the cam sprockets and get the marks on the timing chain to line up properly for verification
- If you have removed the whole front end, you can also verify if the timing tensioner is toast by popping off the circle hard rubber grommet from the lower timing cover. You can see the circle grommet in this picture; it’s just to the upper left of the harmonic balancer:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7478/26830368592_84bc668896_k.jpg
- Once you pop that off, you’ll see the timing tensioner and its piston to the right hand side. Rotate the motor over in both clockwise and counter-clockwise direction a few times. If you see the piston completely depress back into its cylinder with the primary guide rail pushing it, the tensioner is shot for sure and more than likely your timing has jumped. Here is a video of what happened to me and shows exactly what I described:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_rnesJjtuQ

At this point you have some options, depending on your situation, as to what you’ll want to do next. Here are my suggestions:
- If this is a preventative maintenance measure where you just want to change out your timing set, you do not need to remove the intake manifold, turbo, cylinder head, etc. Follow the steps on how to remove the lower timing cover, removing the timing chain set and rebuild from there.
- If you have the P0016 code and you cannot verify timing via the method I explained above, you have no choice but to remove the lower timing cover to confirm where timing is at. Based on your findings from there, here are your next options.

If by chance, magically, timing is ‘spot’ on, but your timing tensioner is shot (I explained earlier how you can identify how); you are one lucky S.O.B. as timing got back on. While I highly doubt this will occur, I figured I’d cover this option. All you need to do is swap out the timing set.
If you are 1-2 links off, you ‘should’ be ok; however, what you don’t know for sure is if interference did occur as it all depends on what stroke the cylinders were in when the slip occurred. You cannot even tell by ‘feel’ by cranking the motor over to see if a piston will hit a valve (if that’s what you’re hoping) as the motor has more torque and RPM than what you can do by hand – the damage will have already been done. Meaning ‘if’ interference did occur, the valves are already bent. I highly suggest to do a full disassembly so all components can be assessed. You do not want to just replace the timing tensioner and then realize you don’t have compression because valves are bent or further damage occurs because there were previous issues which were not addressed and left behind.
If you are over 2 links off, the chance of interference is much greater and you have no choice but to do a full disassembly as you’ll need to completely verify all components’ integrity.
If you have a broken chain – wow, “high five” but I’m sorry to hear. This usually leads to catastrophic engine damage. For sure you have no choice but to do a full disassembly, assess damage and go from there.

[Allowencer]

I’ll jump into the timing replacement first before going into the removal of the intake side, exhaust side and cylinder head.

Cam control assembly and lower timing cover and cam bridge removal:
- Once the upper timing cover is removed (explained previously) you will see an assembly in front of the cams’ sprockets. This needs to be removed.
- Start with the Intake Control Valve (INA valve) which is in front of the intake cam (right hand side / driver’s side). This valve is left threaded and requires T10352 or T10352/1 (depending on version) in order to unthread it and remove it. Once removed, wrap this in a lint free rag or a bag to ensure no debris or foreign material can get within it. It’s ok for this valve to have oil around it – don’t wipe it clean.
o I’ve heard rumor that if you have a ‘full’ mechanics brake piston kit with a bunch of fittings in it, which is used on brake pistons that have to rotate back into ‘zero’ position, one of those fittings actually fits this valve. I have not verified this but heard that it’s possible. If you purchase the ‘T’ kit I mentioned previously, it will come with the correct tool.
- There’s a M10 triple square bolt in front of the exhaust cam with a metal spacer. Remove this bolt and its spacer. This bolt is a TTY bolt, it will need to be replaced.
- There are (6x) T-30 Torx bolts. Remove them and then the whole cam bridge / cam control assembly can be pulled out and away from the cams. Before placing this assembly aside, take look inside the oil galley of the assembly, which is on the side that faces the cylinder head. You will [hopefully] see a screen or you might see this:
https://i.imgur.com/96dfxQG.jpg *Credit to lettuce for this photo
If you see this ^, look back on the cylinder head and hopefully you see the full piece of the screen resting in the counter-sunk oil galley orifice:
https://i.imgur.com/aUNiky1.jpg *Credit to lettuce for this photo
o If you were able to collect the full screen, count your blessings as this didn’t go through the oil galleys and cause more issues.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7114/26830235712_8cf1ca013b_k.jpg
o If you cannot find the screen, this is not a good scenario and you need to find it. That means more motor disassembly. I found mine in the oil pickup screen which is in the oil pan. Hate to say it, but the worst case scenario (it has happened, I’ve talked to some shops; not trying to scare you but provide all scenarios), the screen breaks apart in small pieces, gets into the oil galleys and scores the cam journals, get’s lodged in other oil feed areas and causes oil pressure deficiency. The whole head, vacuum pump and lower assembly of the motor, at a minimum, will need to be disassembled and cleaned. I would even go as far as the whole rotating assembly too. Scary, yes, I know…
o Hopefully you don’t have this issue at all and you see this:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7600/27182739905_4e0ed827c1_k.jpg
If so, great; however, I would still replace the screen with a new one
- Remove the accessory / serpentine belt. Place a socket on the tensioner and relieve tensioner from the belt tensioner and slide the belt off of the tensioner. From there, you can unwrap the belt from all of rest of the pulleys. If you have over 50k miles on your motor, I highly recommend to replace the accessory / serpentine belt.
- Remove the ribbed belt tensioner from the accessory bracket. This is found between the alternator and the A/C compressor. Two bolts hold it in place; remove the 2 bolts and place it aside.
- Rotate the harmonic balancer to where the notch on the pulley lines up with the TDC marking on the lower timing cover. I explain what to look for above in the ‘Verify Timing’ section. Place T10355, which is the crank pulley counterhold, onto the harmonic balancer. There are 4 prongs on the counter hold tool which will line up to 4 prongs inside the harmonic balancer. You can see it pictured here:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7592/27182745715_9f79f1ae1a_k.jpg
Once secured, break loose the 24mm crank bolt and then unscrew it only a turn or two. Heads up, this bolt is on pretty tight and has a significant amount of clamping force. You might need to have/build a decent size breaker bar to break this bolt loose. Remove your socket/ratchet and the counter hold tool. Get the crank spacer tool, T10368, handy. Hold the harmonic balancer pulley with one hand to ensure the pulley doesn’t move Remove the crank bolt and then slowly pull out the harmonic balancer. Insert T10368 over the crank bolt and then re-thread the crank bolt back into the crank. Tighten the crank bolt down with the spacer in place; only need to snug it down.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7226/27114234931_f7f4e75549_k.jpg
The purpose of this spacer is to keep the timing sprocket sets in fwd/aft position on the crank so that when you rotate the motor, the axis won’t be off.
- With the harmonic balancer out of the way, remove all (15x) front cover bolts.
- The front cover will be on very securely by the Audi sealant. Be advised that you more than likely will bend the lower timing cover when you remove it and you’ll need a new one. This is to be expected and occurred to me. When you go to remove it, ensure you do not mark/score the block’s mating face to the lower timing cover; you can replace the lower timing cover, not very easy to replace the block! Here is what you will be looking at with the lower timing cover removed:
https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7745/26923833655_b5baf39d38_k.jpg
Note: I have moved the primary guide rail off of the tensioner in this pic; you will do this later on. The primary guide rail will sit higher with its ‘arm’ up against the timing tensioner’s piston.
Inspect the timing cover as well, especially if you have the P0016 code. With the timing chain having slack because of the lack of tension, the chain can catch the timing cover’s oil drain gutters. Example:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7671/26923810185_1e07b6c628_k.jpg
https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7188/26923811935_87eca256ec_k.jpg
This is what will lead to a chain failure on some engines. If there is damage to the front cover, without a doubt it needs to be replaced.

Verify timing – Part 2
- Now that the lower timing cover is removed, you can validate timing for sure. Rotate the motor, clockwise (as you do not want to loosen the crank bolt), until the mark on the timing chain lines up with the mark on the crank. At that point, you’ll want to record down where timing is on the cam sprockets. Here is a picture of a complete and proper timing setup; zoom in and you’ll see where the marking is on the crank sprocket and its orientation so you’ll know where TDC is for piston #1.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7430/26856400751_04e6259e28_k.jpg
- Reference back up to the 1st part of the ‘Verify timing’ section to help guide you on your options depending on how far off your timing actually is.

Cam timing chain and guides removal
- Remove the oil pump’s chain’s tensioner. Prior to removing the bolt, you will need to use one of the T40011 to lock the tensioner into ‘zero’ position. Do this by pushing back on the tensioner, away from the chain. At the bottom of the tensioner, you will notice there is a hole within the plastic mold. You need to push the tensioner back to where the hole will pass up the tensioner’s metal bar; place one of the T40011’s into the tensioner so it will lock it against its tension bar which will hold it into place. From there, unbolt the T30 bolt which secures the tensioner in place. Once removed, inspect the tensioner guide for any wear. I highly recommend replacing it, especially if abnormal wear is found. The oil pump’s chain can be lifted off of its timing sprocket set on the crank and then hang off to the side. No need to worry about it falling down as it doesn’t have enough room to fall off the oil pump’s sprocket in the oil pan.
- If you are just replacing your timing set and your timing has not jumped, you will need to relieve tension on the cam timing circuit. Press on the main timing guide rail, which is the one on the left hand side, into/towards the timing tensioner. This will push the tensioner’s piston back into its bore. Towards the lower right of the tensioner you will see a small hole. Insert tool another T40011 into this hole. This will hold the tensioner at that position and prevent the tensioner’s piston from extending out further.
- Install T40271/2 into the cylinder head on the intake side; these are the timing sprocket locks. Finger-thread the bolts into the head. You will need, IIRC a 14mm, for the intake, and a 16mm, for the exhaust cam, open end wrenches. Start with the intake camshaft and push the sprocket lock towards the head to lock the sprocket into position. More than likely you will have to use the open end wrench to rotate the cam slightly (either way is ok). Behind the intake sprocket/clutch system, you’ll see a cut out from the cam itself where the open end can seat into.
https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7281/26923844645_1941b727f5_k.jpg
Once the intake cam sprocket is secured, unbolt the main guide rail’s bolt on the left hand side; I believe it’s a M10 triple square. Once the bolt is removed, push on top of the main guide rail downward where you are forcing the guide rail to go down towards the floor. The idea is to get the guide rail’s ‘arm’ off of the tensioner area and also to push the guide rail down and away from the upper timing area. It should be positioned like what is shown in the picture I provided above. With the main guide rail out of the way, finger-thread the other cam lock onto the exhaust side of the head. Push the sprocket lock towards the head to lock the exhaust sprocket into position. More than likely you will have to use an open end wrench to rotate the cam slightly – ONLY rotate clockwise on the exhaust cam. Behind the exhaust cam’s sprocket you’ll see a cut out from the cam itself where the open end can seat into.
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7791/26318659074_6ebbb89ec4_k.jpg
- With both sprockets secured, remove the upper guide track by unlocking the molded latch with a flat head screwdriver and pushing/pulling the guide track forward (as pictured above as well).
- Unbolt the static timing guide rail, the one on the right hand side; (2x) M10 triple square bolts. Remove the guide rail and inspect it for damage or abnormal wear. I highly recommend replacing all timing guide rails; it’s worth the peace of mind since all of these components wear together.
- Remove the timing chain off of all sprockets and guide rails
WARNING / CAUTION: DO NOT rotate the motor over, from this point forward, if the cylinder head is still assembled on top of the engine block. Doing so could very well bring a piston into contact with an open valve.
- Pull down on the primary guide rail so it clears out from the upper timing area, it should be free then and can be removed from the engine. Inspect it for damage or abnormal wear. I highly recommend replacing all timing guide rails; it’s worth the peace of mind since all of these components wear together.
- Unbolt the tensioner; (2x) T30 Torx bolts and do whatever you’d like with this as you feel. However, keep this and all parts you need to replace as it is evidence you might need to keep depending on how the pending class action lawsuit carries out in regards to this issue against Audi and VW group. If you’re curious as to how it failed or if yours hasn’t failed yet, I’d love to see the condition the locking pawl is in. Take the snap ring off of the timing tensioner and then pop the pawl out of its groove and flip it over. Take a picture of it and post it here so we have it documented.
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7053/26651057030_05f3529686_k.jpg
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7010/26830319322_bda0630115_k.jpg
https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7248/26830317052_caa22adae2_k.jpg

Balance shaft chain and tensioner removal:
- CAUTION! : ENSURE the crank is not rotated out of TDC
Here is the procedure on how to R&R the balance shaft timing chain. I highly advise you to do this since you’ve already ripped apart your motor this far. It would be like running a marathon and only going 75% of the way then stopping because you didn’t want to spend the few extra bucks. If that analogy or recommendation isn’t enough to kick you in the butt, here’s some evidence as to why you might want to; here are pictures from my balance shaft timing chain and its respective guide rails:
The chain stretches; mind you the tensioner is a ‘static’ tensioner and does not adjust with the expected wear on the chain (old one on the left; new one on the right):
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7169/26830224672_cdb823e54c_k.jpg

One of the chain guides:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7481/26830227832_d9fb3d8daa_k.jpg
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7408/26830226182_e35baca031_k.jpg
I hope that was enough convincing [:)]; moving onto the procedure to remove it:
- First remove the balance shaft chain’s timing tensioner; this is found on the left hand side of the block which has a hex ‘top’ to it. It’s a static tensioner which will unthread from the block itself.
- Unbolt the tensioning guide rail (what the tensioner was pushing on; just to the right of the tensioner); I believe it’s a M10 triple square
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7650/26830232182_ea3ff3a394_o.jpg
- Remove the top guide rail; (2x) M10 triple square bolts
- Remove the lower guide rail; (2x) M10 triple square bolts
- Remove the chain from the timing circuit

Balance shaft chain and tensioner installation:
- CAUTION! : ENSURE the crank is not rotated out of TDC
- There are 2 balance shafts on this motor; one on the right hand / driver’s side and one on the left hand / passenger’s side (when looking at the motor in context to the repair). The right hand / driver’s side balance shaft is actually ‘driven’ by an intermediate sprocket set. There is a mark (a dot impression) on one of the teeth on the actual balance shaft’s sprocket (the higher and more inset of the sprockets) and then there are 2 marks (dot impressions) on the intermediate sprocket set. The mark on the balance shaft’s sprocket must line up between the 2 (basically sandwich it) marks on the intermediate sprocket set.
- Pull out your new timing chain and familiarize yourself with the marking layouts. Rotate the chain around in order to get the timing marks the way you need them to be orientated; keeping in mind the crank cannot move and nor can the right hand side / driver’s side balance shaft. The last timing point to align is the left hand side / passenger’s side balance shaft sprocket. Lay / install the timing chain across the sprockets, ensuring the marked links line up / over to the marks on each of the 3 sprockets (left/right balance shafts and crank sprocket). Note: there is a different mark on the intermediate sprocket set which needs to correspond to the marked link on the chain; it’s not the “sandwiched” marks referenced earlier. Here is what it will need to look like (this already has the guide rails on and tensioner installed):
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7619/26830222882_79c98f7597_o.jpg
- Install the lower timing guide rail with (2x) new guide rail bolts – only gently tighten them and tighten them down evenly per side
- Install the upper timing guide rail with (2x) new guide rail bolts – only gently tighten them and tighten them down evenly per side
- Install the timing tensioner guide rail with (1x) new guide rail bolt
- Check the timing setting one more time (ensure all marked links line up / over to the marks on each of the 3 sprockets (left/right balance shafts and crank sprocket).
- Install the static balance shaft timing tensioner; coat the seal (crush washer) with Audi approved sealant – CAREFUL – there is an oil feed hole right by the seal washer. You only need a slight coat of sealant on this. Once threaded down, it should be just enough to slightly squeeze out from the top [hex] of the tensioner. Torque the tensioner to: 85 Nm / 63 ft. lbs.
- Torque all guide rail bolts to: 20 Nm / 15 ft. lbs. / 177 in. lbs.
- If you have the cylinder head off the motor, feel free to rotate the crank over a few times to ensure the chain is aligned with the timing on each rotation. When complete, bring cylinder #1 back to TDC.
WARNING / CAUTION: DO NOT rotate the motor over if the cylinder head is still assembled on top of the engine block. Doing so could very well bring a piston into contact with an open valve.

[Allowencer]

Another reserve

[Allowencer]

Reserve again

[Allowencer]

Another reserve

[Allowencer]

1 more for good measure

[Allowencer]

maybe one more wont hurt

[Allowencer]

And another

[Allowencer]

might as well

[blbroo]

Thanks for putting this together!

[Lambda13]

Awesome. This is fantastic.

[S4'ed]

Excellent write-up...thanks...

But, I don't think the rear lower control arms are a good place for the jackstands. These arms are not designed to hold the vertical weight of the car.

[Allowencer]

Excellent write-up...thanks...

But, I don't think the rear lower control arms are a good place for the jackstands. These arms are not designed to hold the vertical weight of the car.

It's the axis of the arm that goes into the cradle / cross frame. Technically speaking, it holds the car up day to day. Maybe I should be more specific.

[Allowencer]

Just added the R&R instructions of the balance shaft timing chain circuit

[A4 Centaur]

Such a great write-up! Thank you!

[jjvwg]

This is awesome, thanks a bunch, im sure ill be using this down the road to complete mine when the time comes. all i can say is it looks like a bitch, the TB on my 1.8t is cake, this looks to be way more involved. I would have much preferred they stuck with a belt, didnt audi realize there chain systems suck after the b6/b7 chassis issues[headbang]

[zokissima]

Most valuable threads on this site!

[nycaudi]

Just added the R&R instructions of the balance shaft timing chain circuit

thanks for your instructions...

did you feel vibration and a rough idle before this part failed on you?

[K1_Builder]

Appears I will be pulling my motor for new rods, pistons and rings. This is a great write up and basically covers everything I will encounter. Thanks for putting in the work.

[buelldozer]

Okay, now I need instructions on removing the cylinder head. You gonna come back and write that up?

Also, what do you do when you come out and find that your brother in law HAS rotated the motor off of TDC? [o_o]

[Gunnark100]

Okay, now I need instructions on removing the cylinder head. You gonna come back and write that up?


Should help you a bit this file:

Link removed!(due avoid account problem with mega), you can upload file somewhere and post again!

[buelldozer]

Thanks but Allowncer's pictures are better. ;)

[Gunnark100]

Thanks but Allowncer's pictures are better. ;)

Fully agree:)

[DoItAllGarage]

Only few people really know how looongggg it takes to do "write-up"! Another hint that helps, the timing chain has darker links that line up the tick marks/ arrow on the gears to help line things up. I also used blue loctite on all the bolts to ensure they won't come out.

This is what makes forums great, people like you taking time out to help others! Keep up the good work!

[eclipse1]

I'm doing a radiator job and could use a little help. I got the bumper cover removed. Do I need to remove the crash absorber and headlights so I can take the AC condenser unit out of the way? the lines are right under the crash absorber and won't move.
http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p456/eclipse0211/20161110_234650_zpsrugtssxd.jpg (http://s347.photobucket.com/user/eclipse0211/media/20161110_234650_zpsrugtssxd.jpg.html)

Please advise.

[A4 Centaur]

I am getting ready to tackle this work in a few days time.

I have ordered the tools for the work from the following companies:

Crank Spacer Tool for holding crankshaft in position: http://www.centurytool.net/T10368_Assenmacher_Specialty_Tools_Crankshaft_Thru _p/asmt10368.htm

Intake central control valve tool: https://www.toolsource.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=T10352

Timing Chain Kit: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/ultimate-timing-chain-kit/06h109158hkt2/

Crank Holder Wrench and Camshaft locking tools: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-parts/timing-service-tool-set/020946sch01a/

New Crank dampner: http://www.fluidampr.com/

[Discipulus]

I just did this last weekend, and boy let me say it was a lot more time consuming than I anticipated!
A half day on Friday plus a full day Saturday and Sunday. A lot of work for sure!

There are a couple spots that appeared to be dripping oil after I got it all back together, so I'm letting the sealant cure fully before starting the motor and getting it warmed up. Hopefully those few drips of oil are just residual from the work I did. Crossing my fingers!

Thanks @allowencer and everyone else in this thread for guiding the way!

The only thing I had trouble with is finding the torque specs on the crank bolt and timing chain cover bolts.

[A4x]

I knew I should have saved this page. Does anyone have a copy with the pictures??

This is a great guide!

[Discipulus]

Quick update, no leaks, everything running smoothly after the new timing chains and tensioners/rails were installed. Somehow it seems to be running even better than before?? I'm sure it must be a placebo but I can't help but feel like it's smoother and has more power and throttle response.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[A4 Centaur]

^ Yup, mine as well. But I also did the harmonic balancer as well. Thanks to the OP for a great write-up!

[LionKing]

Quick update, no leaks, everything running smoothly after the new timing chains and tensioners/rails were installed. Somehow it seems to be running even better than before?? I'm sure it must be a placebo but I can't help but feel like it's smoother and has more power and throttle response.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)
Both of you, it should. Technically you aren't running off timing any more, even if it was just slightly due to stretch.

^ Yup, mine as well. But I also did the harmonic balancer as well. Thanks to the OP for a great write-up!


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Audizine mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

[Discipulus]

Another forum member asked me for tips on specific parts/tools, so I figured I'd add it here so everyone can benefit.

Parts and tools you'll definitely need:

Timing chain kit (Double check your production date and make sure it's the right kit!)
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/ultimate-timing-chain-kit/06h109158hkt2/

Upper Timing cover gasket:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/upper-timing-cover-gasket/06h103483c/

**Optional** Lower Timing chain cover.
This thing is VERY easy to bend upon removal. I was able to remove it without bending, but it is very difficult.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/timing-chain-cover-lower/06h109210ag/

Official Audi gasket maker sealant for lower timing cover. I bought it at a local Audi dealership for $50, though ECS has it for cheaper:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/gasket-silicone-sealant-80ml/d174003m2/

**Some people say you can use Permatex Ultra Black for this... but I preferred to use the special Audi stuff just in case because no way in hell was I going to remove that dang cover again.

Crankshaft Pulley bolt
https://www.uspmotorsports.com/Audi--A4--B8--2009-2012--2.0T--FWD/Engine/Pulleys/Crank-Pulley-Bolt.html
This is a Torque to Yield bolt with a rubber gasket built in - needs to be replaced every time it's removed. I don't know the exact torque spec, but I found a Jetta with a similar motor specified 90Nm with additional 90 degrees rotation. Basically... just about as tight as you can get it.

Required specialty tools:

Oil chain tensioner locking pin:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/locking-pin/t40011~oev/

Timing service tool kit
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-parts/timing-service-tool-set/020946sch01a/
I'm not kidding. You HAVE to have these tools in that kit. There is no way to get that Harmonic balancer off without this tool.
There is also a special tool for removing the camshaft valve behind the upper valve cover included in this kit. This tool you can *maybe* substitute for one of these:
This is what I used to remove the valve but it was very difficult and I ended up scratching the aluminum around the camshaft valve piece. No real damage was done but it would be very easy to mess it up, so next time I would definitely use the official Audi Tool for this.
https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-W80621-8-Inch-Piston/dp/B0002KO3F6/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1502648909&sr=8-6&keywords=brake+piston+tool

Additionally, this kit includes Camshaft locking tools. This is important, because without the camshaft being locked into place it will SLAM back to wherever the valve springs naturally rest once you remove the chain. Let me tell you, it is VERY HARD to rotate the camshaft by hand with those valve springs working against you! I could have saved probably 2-3 hours of time if I just got the locking tool, which again, is included in the above kit.

Some bits and pieces that may help:
Plastic putty knives for gently prying off the lower timing cover
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Devil-4718-3-Piece-Plastic/dp/B001SBJIA8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502650232&sr=8-1&keywords=plastic+putty+knives

Abrasive nylon wheel for removing old gasket material:
https://www.amazon.com/Dico-541-778-4-Nyalox-4-Inch-Orange/dp/B00004YYD8/ref=pd_sbs_469_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=3X55GRGCDXACFW0S17DK

Another thing that helped me IMMENSELY was putting little yellow sticky notes inside small ZipLock bags along with the screws that go to each component on my car. Example, screws for the front bumper go in a labeled bag, screws for the headlights go in another labeled bag.. etc. This was so handy, because after 3 days of working on this there is no way I could remember where each screw came from. I probably had 12 different labeled bags for each of the parts I pulled off.

Oh, and if you've got a bit of extra $$$ to put into this, now would be a good time to upgrade to a Fluidampr. I couldn't afford it at the time but I wish I did. I'll have to tear apart the front of my car another day to install a Fluidampr sometime.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-fluidampr-parts/harmonic-damper-crankshaft-pulley/551231~flu/


Some tricky parts along the way:
Keep in mind when torquing down the screws/bolts inside the timing chain area: they are all screwing into Aluminum. These threads are fragile and cannot be over-torqued. Follow the torque specification for all these bolts. They may not feel "tight" like you're expecting, they just go snug and then rotate a little further as per the Torque-to-Yield bolt specs. I couldn't find a complete guide on Audizine, so I googled for a while and found a quick reference guide from a Q5 using the same 2.0T CAEB motor. Use this guide to find the torque specs and tightening pattern on the upper/lower timing covers.

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/attachments/q5-sq5-mki-8r-discussion-129/40264d1404968516-torque-box-fluids-2011-2012-q5-quick-reference-spec-book.pdf



And that's about all I can think of for the moment. Just take your time, go slow on that lower timing cover, and DOUBLE CHECK EVERYTHING before putting it back together. I nearly forgot to reinstall that camshaft valve http://www.audizine.com/forum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

[A4 Centaur]

^ Awesome, thanks for the addition to the thread.

[Slick_B8]

Quick question, for those that removed the radiator and have the 2 auto transmission lines that needed to be removed, did you guys retop the tranny fluid at all?

[Azdramos]

So, I didnt mark my cams to timing cus it had skipped 11 teeth and bent all my valves.
Now, am I going to have issues when i set my timing? I figured there would be no point in marking my cams since they were off timing anyways.
ive rotated my crank a few times with my cylinder head off to clean my pistons off of all that carbon, but its now back in TDC Position.
Am I going to have any issues once i set my timing?


Also, do I need to replace the screen on the cam bracket? Mine is broken, and from what ive gathered, I need to replace the whole thing, which is over $200... I dont want to have to dump more money into the thing

[rfevangelista]

AZDramos I am in the process of replacing my chain tensioner. Do you have a write up on removing the cylinder head. My car threw a p0016 code but I don't know if there are any damage to the valves. But since I have majority of the car taken apart I figured better be safe than sorry.

[flowhigh]

This is much more elaborate of a procedure than the B7 timing belt. So many failing points in just this area alone: screen, tensioners, guides and even the drain gutter? [:(]

[TommySixGun]

Thanks for the write up Allowencer!! I just bought an A4 B8 with a failed tensioner and bent valves. After reading your write up I ran out out of my house to the garage and looked to see if my cam bracket screen was in place. It was not all there and today I dropped my cylinder head off at the machine shop so who knows where the rest of the screen is [=(]

[blgilles]

Yes, thanks for the write-up Allowencer!

So I'm going to be doing this repair myself and upon examining your write-up, it made me wonder if time could be saved by actually removing the Lock Carrier itself with all the stuff still mounted to it (radiator, AC evaporator, intercooler, etc.).

So I found that a local shop will discharge (and then recharge) the AC evaporator for me, for super cheap. So I'm wondering what your - or others' here - thoughts are on doing it this way (as opposed to individually de-mounting the radiator, AC evaporator, intercooler, etc. from the Lock Carrier).

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance!

[LionKing]

Yes, thanks for the write-up Allowencer!

So I'm going to be doing this repair myself and upon examining your write-up, it made me wonder if time could be saved by actually removing the Lock Carrier itself with all the stuff still mounted to it (radiator, AC evaporator, intercooler, etc.).

So I found that a local shop will discharge (and then recharge) the AC evaporator for me, for super cheap. So I'm wondering what your - or others' here - thoughts are on doing it this way (as opposed to individually de-mounting the radiator, AC evaporator, intercooler, etc. from the Lock Carrier).

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance!I can tell you, it's "less" room.. and even though I work at a shop with an a/c machine, I just took all of the bolts out of the bumper/support bracket and used a jack stands to keep everything away, lowered, and keep tension off of lines and hoses when I did mine. I didn't have to refill coolant, evac/recharge a/c, top off trans fluid at all. It's technically less room but still plenty to do the job and see all the marks well if you're familiar.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[blgilles]

Thanks @LionKing!

[blgilles]

Woh! So I just noticed the following, from here: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/712531-THE-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-Failure-Thread

Audi will cover effected vehicles of the time tensioner issue, as long as those vehicles have less than 100k miles and fewer than 10 years in operation, when the repairs were made.

See below for complete lists:
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/846065-vw-will-reimburse-drivers-faulty-engine-class-action-settlement/
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018/vw-timing-chain-class-action-lawsuit.shtml

So this makes me wonder if I should still do this myself, or if it will indeed be covered by Audi. My car has 98k miles on it, and just under 10 years - so I would have to act fast to still be covered.

Just wanted to let everyone here know. Also, it mentioned that if you had the repairs done by an independent shop, they will cover the repairs to an extent.

So it's probably prudent to dig up your receipts, whether it was done at an independent shop, or perhaps even receipt for parts, if you did it yourself.

Speaking of DIY, I can't quite tell from the summary, whether your parts would be covered if you did the repair yourself. I am thinking they actually would.

Thoughts?

EDITS: Some clarifications, above

[Nano909]

Woh! So I just noticed the following, from here: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/712531-THE-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-Failure-Thread

Audi will cover effected vehicles of the time tensioner issue, as long as those vehicles have less than 100k miles and fewer than 10 years in operation, when the repairs were made.

See below for complete lists:
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/846065-vw-will-reimburse-drivers-faulty-engine-class-action-settlement/
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018/vw-timing-chain-class-action-lawsuit.shtml

So this makes me wonder if I should still do this myself, or if it will indeed be covered by Audi. My car has 98k miles on it, and just under 10 years - so I would have to act fast to still be covered.

Just wanted to let everyone here know. Also, it mentioned that if you had the repairs done by an independent shop, they will cover the repairs to an extent.

So it's probably prudent to dig up your receipts, whether it was done at an independent shop, or perhaps even receipt for parts, if you did it yourself.

Speaking of DIY, I can't quite tell from the summary, whether your parts would be covered if you did the repair yourself. I am thinking they actually would.

Thoughts?

EDITS: Some clarifications, above

I hope they hurry up with finalizing that lawsuit. I'm almost at 90k.

[blgilles]

Heh. Tell me about it. I'm at 98,999 currently. And I think mine is making the tell-tale startup sound which indicates failure is imminent. (Hence why I was on this thread in the first place - I am/was planning on replacing it myself - along with the likely-already-damaged timing chain.)

[blgilles]

So some (potentially silly) questions:

1. Do you have to drain the oil before starting this job? (My understanding is that you don't... that it hangs out in the oil pan, sufficiently low.)
2. Assuming you didn't drain the oil, do you change the oil (shortly) after the job?

Thanks, all!

[Justin B8]

So some (potentially silly) questions:

1. Do you have to drain the oil before starting this job? (My understanding is that you don't... that it hangs out in the oil pan, sufficiently low.)
2. Assuming you didn't drain the oil, do you change the oil (shortly) after the job?

Thanks, all!

1. No

2. Yes, change oil when you are done. I let mine drain overnight, then refilled. I pulled the plugs, cranked it for 30 secs or so to prime the oil system, gapped and reinstalled new plugs and then changed the filter.

[blgilles]

Sweet, thanks again! And I like your procedure for the filter. To get any/gunk into it, and -then- change it.

[blgilles]

Just ordered everything.

[blgilles]

Quick update: Order arrived but was missing some stuff, so having to wait to start the project.

Specifically it arrived without the timing chain tool kit (here (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-parts/timing-service-tool-set-t10355a-t10355/020946sch01a/)) and the Upper Timing Cover Gasket (here (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/upper-timing-cover-gasket/06h103483c/)).

And this 'Borsehung' (here (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-borsehung-parts/timing-chain-guide-rail-upper/06h109509q~bhg/)) part was shipped instead of the genuine VW/Audi part, here (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/timing-chain-guide-rail-upper/06h109509q/#).

I don't know anything about Borsehung's quality (they could be great, they could be terrible, or somewhere in-between; I have no idea), so I'm having it exchanged.

And the last bit is I received two chains, one of which was properly labeled, and is definitely the correct balance-shaft timing chain (verified by P/N and with online pictures). The other one had had it's bag-labeling completely warn off (not sure how/why), and did not look at all like what is supposed to be included in the Ultimate Timing Chain service kit. It did have 'PU2S 171001' on one of the links, but that didn't turn up anything on Google. Needless to say, I don't want to get the whole front-end of the car, timing cover, rails, etc. out, just to realize that I have the wrong chain - so ECS is swapping this for me - so that I can be sure I have the right part.

So probably another week or so for the (replacement/correct) parts/tools to arrive...

[blgilles]

Received all the parts and now I’m mid-way through. Hoping to finish on Monday.

Difficulties:
1. Cam bridge. But with Justin’s advice it only took probably 15 minutes total to get it on. Was psyched about that.
2. The coolant hose that runs between the upper and lower timing covers was ‘glued’ to the metal tube it attaches to (from age/heat/pressure). So it took probably an hour and a half to get it off (prying underneath the tube to break the rubber which had turned into glue, while trying to not damage the hose).

Otherwise it has gone pretty smoothly so far. All cam and balance timing components replaced and both upper and lower timing covers are back on, as well as the lock carrier, radiator, ac compressor coil, intercooler and impact absorber.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2wGbuv0WTYy0PYNM8h4CpvNh864TuINtswfBMyK-zaTU-bzIbuDDOjHfgeHvUL5YDVAkzbitHnc9aQuGm0d1Iu5ZSMKkgzN tFhs75AI-LRv0SSwA15EDDGvUS2J8mIO-FfH9FxzY8UTJFlSEFnhmW1ele8FbA5Q4Ce76UApB_1ZRJNMN98 4PRQ_9Q0JGVVt-1vmEmF3Y61XWc-Tn1q8CQX3MET6_K6dl0z7I1FAOHPolfeDgvQRPu6eFNkJh2I1L 7UiRBMEcNIi2H8_S7oA5r7vbxdrcvdMkJLC9Bc6KFx9Al4DKzI 9vjivZhMgrWGFHZEDAZTT913p-mT8Ywmz-Jj27QD6p6XjaWWZaAWwlv6OPfTDB9OGrEqVLH3839LbV2rv28y j2-KBt-GWBLI-43kxrE_Avo0fy_2K-GKScuN1te2gO5kzz2sMNDYNOXCyE_QG7UqGO-A99hCEFZ9BdARZMJDnDg8onA97lai2alL2r42AWmcRMnoA24Dw OIaOcsU4ZIbSyEH3WTXwvb-Tt5ScffhhsPnE_x6r6OdLoOzoJJxWaqhld0N6qN2zMsVNFJB_l XrOxZy0hybOFthPp21hV-XuhO1VPJeQI8qrdkIOerT-XqNtF29dV2AYl4LUGo1d5dXceKsk_bq4nYsiB4Veop-6Me3qBQQ=w1242-h933-no

I’m glad I did this timing work. There are impact marks on the old lower timing cover from the chain hitting it/scraping against it. This of course should absolutely never happen. It seems the tensioner was not doing its job (wasn’t giving enough tension) so the chain was loose enough to slap the oil gullies on the timing cover. From the looks of it, the chain has probably been slapping the gullies on this timing cover for years. There’s a sound on startup that I was worried about (which I previously was afraid was exactly this, and is one of the reasons I decided to replace the timing components) and it seems the sound is indeed very likely the chain hitting the gullies of the lower timing cover. I’ll know for sure if it’s gone after this work.

First thing Monday will be filling coolant (using vacuum method), oil/filter change, and then remaining re-assembly of the bumper/sensors/horns/etc. And then testing it all out.

Since removing the radiator bleeds (some) transmission fluid, I’m going to go ahead and change that (as I think it’s never been changed) once everything is back together and tested, along with replacing the ATF filter.

[blgilles]

Finished yesterday (August 7, 2018). Started up with zero warnings/lights/etc.

I have to say that starting a car after timing work is probably one of the most nerve-racking things ever. Despite checking the marks (and photographing them, for later review and re-checking) probably 200 hundred times, it still scares the hell out of me.

Anyways, everything was spot on (as I knew it would be, and had checked in the photos, more times than I probably should have) and it runs a bit smoother than it did before. I'll be measuring the cam phase again (-3.05 degrees with old components) now that the new chain/tensioner/rails/etc. are in, and posting them in the 'Results of measuring timing chain stretch via cam phaser adaptation' (https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/805102-Results-of-measuring-timing-chain-stretch-via-cam-phaser-adaptation?p=13201091#post13201091) thread.

Cheers, all!

[blgilles]

So I posted this in the timing chain stretch/cam phaser adaptation thread, but figured it would be useful here as well, so here're my additional notes from having successfully followed this guide.

My little guide to myself is HERE (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v8iT3FUryRmy5TpKpxJId4SgiG34Y9cT8k07GHqwOuk/edit?usp=sharing).
And I formatted Allowencer's guide in Google docs to make it print a little easier, and that's HERE (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14d4jrqYQpIes5QYaf2BRvG2Z9KBMkgTYWHWMFcRJIpo/edit?usp=sharing)

I actually really enjoyed this project! Best of luck to anyone else taking it on!

And thanks again, Allowencer!

[Charles.waite]

Tackling this tomorrow. This guide is excellent, thanks for taking the time!

[homegrowna4]

Followed this guide to do my timing chains and it was very helpful. However I'm running into some issues. Got everything timed perfectly but when I go to verify timing I rotate the engine clockwise for what feels like 100 rotations finally got cyl 1 to TDC but my cam timing is off by one tooth. I've reset it multiple times and it's still off by one. Could it be that I need to keep going around until it lines up or is this because of vvt or some other issue?

[blgilles]

So one cam is off by 1 tooth, and the other isn't? If that's the case then you're definitely off time by one tooth.

And this is after replacement? You shouldn't have to rotate it after replacement, you should be able to just have the marks right where you put them.

[blgilles]

Oh, and on VVT, that's after the intake cam sprocket, between it and the actually intake cam shaft - so it can't mess with the chain/sprocket positioning, which is/should be fixed.

Can you post pictures/videos of what you're seeing?

[homegrowna4]

So one cam is off by 1 tooth, and the other isn't? If that's the case then you're definitely off time by one tooth.

And this is after replacement? You shouldn't have to rotate it after replacement, you should be able to just have the marks right where you put them.

The marks were on until I rotated it. Now both cams and the crank are all off by one tooth. Maybe thats my problem I shouldnt rotate it. I'll add some pictures

[homegrowna4]

85535
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8553785538


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[blgilles]

Cool. Some I'm super-hesitant to ever say that timing is OK w/out the marks being lined up. But it sounds to me that yes, your timing is lined up, and everything is just rotated. If everything is off by the same, in the same direction, I think that means you're actually perfectly in time. The chain of course will rotate around as the engine rotates, and the marks will only line up only so often (once in 30 rotations of the crank, I think).

[blgilles]

85535
85536
8553785538


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)

So are the two lower photos before you rotated the engine? And the two upper are after rotation?

I'm thinking that's the case. Anyways, I can't quite make out the timing mark on the intake cam sprocket on the first photo. Do you have another one perhaps? I'll keep trying...

[homegrowna4]

Cool. Some I'm super-hesitant to ever say that timing is OK w/out the marks being lined up. But it sounds to me that yes, your timing is lined up, and everything is just rotated. If everything is off by the same, in the same direction, I think that means you're actually perfectly in time. The chain of course will rotate around as the engine rotates, and the marks will only line up only so often (once in 30 rotations of the crank, I think).

Thats kind of what I was thinking that since it was all consistently off the same I was ok. This engine is a lot harder to time than my old 1.8T though

[homegrowna4]

So are the two lower photos before you rotated the engine? And the two upper are after rotation?

I'm thinking that's the case. Anyways, I can't quite make out the timing mark on the intake cam sprocket on the first photo. Do you have another one perhaps? I'll keep trying...

They're both after rotation but the crank chain is off on the last two

[blgilles]

Thats kind of what I was thinking that since it was all consistently off the same I was ok. This engine is a lot harder to time than my old 1.8T though

Yes, exactly. Funnily enough this motor is the first timing job I did. I kind of kicked myself that I didn't do my previous 1.8t belt jobs, as apparently they were way easier. Back then I almost did them, but always bailed and just had a shop do them. Wish I would have.

[homegrowna4]

85539


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[blgilles]

Thanks. Inspecting now to be sure.

[blgilles]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BxHaRfMvWH6TLadOXKG6OP2HusIxkVXZVezkF7reJlGv_b1ZFP BuVFxzKc2_eAhM_YsvuC-NEGibBHJJ8Sfyi9IO2Lx9u5wqZIgYzGJQ5eyq-MXZ4WAu3EtH8Q7Sgv-OdQrr4KkjyUpJEiHkLBD_b5RLrwnL31RGAAzEspdnWbSGvD0XX iTGGxCtO04Qm6CI_4jiQ0o7i66unHLWiO-nyO89bqkmlQ46_6QEg_76dKEWQ-ZRKFwf5lwK26EUa1aQVmN4chCjAAHU2wSpD9t9glab45RNg9eF qZUzgrOckjqoicEGBeybOP7S_8MAKh-uZStydjut2_tm4U1klOgytvC_a-3m9pvAY7oxXsQwvqJK_bUoR9mBwJqWnNrXWhWShwbSMBkPxppH Kp2odyuH4_H0Ben6rJC_DJJqR5dy3SZKXh0eu1kSXVwh6cTjDY CLdzLeDoo0h_RN46CG6K-DpFb5xR0CihXkGnXPvryxqHCqjJqce2r4Oz-sdtG0TLz02eluYVp2IcxXzBahLVd4Zw2Z6nmbRKUYptqFd3Adl IkfqQJXHF6Dqk2IU_6EHCGNg0PwEzBdGKlgas6bDptJrv8RVBE dBmIM0dApf6YDMuAj-DuxsZa_q3gdzNa6S2UMblOcOIISOVeSKdFKXS3LPfzFCM-5hcEFEb8eTAi-ANTbXYfbEgI_jd5RoA=w1440-h537-no

OK, so I combined the two images that I'm pretty sure go together into one image, just to make 100% I'm not missing something. Is the combination above what it currently looks like?

If this is indeed how it looks (i.e. if I'm understanding correctly), then I think the timing is spot-on.

The 'why' is imagine just sliding the colored link 1 link clockwise on all 3 sprockets. Everything lines up. If sliding all of them the same didn't line stuff up, then you'd be out of time.

[homegrowna4]

Thanks. Inspecting now to be sure.

Thanks for your help. Guess I'm going to seal this thing up and start it up after work

[blgilles]

Thanks for your help. Guess I'm going to seal this thing up and start it up after work

Sounds good. So my wife actually had to force me to start mine. I was like 'well, it's not broken, yet, as long as I don't start it'. Ha.

[homegrowna4]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BxHaRfMvWH6TLadOXKG6OP2HusIxkVXZVezkF7reJlGv_b1ZFP BuVFxzKc2_eAhM_YsvuC-NEGibBHJJ8Sfyi9IO2Lx9u5wqZIgYzGJQ5eyq-MXZ4WAu3EtH8Q7Sgv-OdQrr4KkjyUpJEiHkLBD_b5RLrwnL31RGAAzEspdnWbSGvD0XX iTGGxCtO04Qm6CI_4jiQ0o7i66unHLWiO-nyO89bqkmlQ46_6QEg_76dKEWQ-ZRKFwf5lwK26EUa1aQVmN4chCjAAHU2wSpD9t9glab45RNg9eF qZUzgrOckjqoicEGBeybOP7S_8MAKh-uZStydjut2_tm4U1klOgytvC_a-3m9pvAY7oxXsQwvqJK_bUoR9mBwJqWnNrXWhWShwbSMBkPxppH Kp2odyuH4_H0Ben6rJC_DJJqR5dy3SZKXh0eu1kSXVwh6cTjDY CLdzLeDoo0h_RN46CG6K-DpFb5xR0CihXkGnXPvryxqHCqjJqce2r4Oz-sdtG0TLz02eluYVp2IcxXzBahLVd4Zw2Z6nmbRKUYptqFd3Adl IkfqQJXHF6Dqk2IU_6EHCGNg0PwEzBdGKlgas6bDptJrv8RVBE dBmIM0dApf6YDMuAj-DuxsZa_q3gdzNa6S2UMblOcOIISOVeSKdFKXS3LPfzFCM-5hcEFEb8eTAi-ANTbXYfbEgI_jd5RoA=w1440-h537-no

OK, so I combined the two images that I'm pretty sure go together into one image, just to make 100% I'm not missing something. Is the combination above what it currently looks like?

If this is indeed how it looks (i.e. if I'm understanding correctly), then I think the timing is spot-on.

The 'why' is imagine just sliding the colored link 1 link clockwise on all 3 sprockets. Everything lines up. If sliding all of them the same didn't line stuff up, then you'd be out of time.

Yes that is currently how it sits. Thats what I was thinking just wanted to verify with the experts

[blgilles]

Perfect

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and I’m no expert... ;-). But I have done the job, once.

[Charles.waite]

Frankly, 1.8t timing jobs are absolute cake compared to this job.

I still wouldn’t call this job that hard, more like tedious and nerve wracking since the timing marks and lining things up, as we’ve all discovered, isn’t really an exact science thanks to Audi not including clear timing marks anywhere on the block.

Otherwise all the parts are pretty readily accessible. The most difficult part, imo, is getting the cam bridge back on.

[blgilles]

Agreed on all counts.

[Charles.waite]

Perfect

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and I’m no expert... ;-). But I have done the job, once.

I’ll echo this. I’m no expert, only done this once (and hopefully never again), but those marks look just fine to me. Remember the chain is a fixed length (well, until it starts stretching that is) and the marks are merely helpers. You could do what I did and not bother lining up the chain marks from the get go, simply setting the engine to TDC and replacing the chain while keeping the amount of links between the elements the same, and you’ll be in time. The links can stretch, thus making the distance between cam teeth and crank change, but unless you skip teeth then the amount of teeth will never change. That’s why i did my job the way I did. I simply used the chain marks as reference points and counted links between the various marks.

The part that made things complicated were I didn’t see the mark on the crank (and frankly, I forgot to consider that) before I goofed when loosening the tensioner and the chain slipped because I hadn’t installed the cam locks. Luckily I’d already taken copious pictures so I could reset everything but my crank being in time was hard to confirm until I realized I could reference the marks on the balance shaft chains in the pictures to insure I was set correctly.

And that’s actually leads me to my only complaint about this diy. There’s too much rambling and it goes on a couple tangents, breaking up the meat of the DIY. Makes it a bit tricky to follow due to how all the amazing info is structured.

[homegrowna4]

I’ll echo this. I’m no expert, only done this once (and hopefully never again), but those marks look just fine to me. Remember the chain is a fixed length (well, until it starts stretching that is) and the marks are merely helpers. You could do what I did and not bother lining up the chain marks from the get go, simply setting the engine to TDC and replacing the chain while keeping the amount of links between the elements the same, and you’ll be in time. The links can stretch, thus making the distance between cam teeth and crank change, but unless you skip teeth then the amount of teeth will never change. That’s why i did my job the way I did. I simply used the chain marks as reference points and counted links between the various marks.

The part that made things complicated were I didn’t see the mark on the crank (and frankly, I forgot to consider that) before I goofed when loosening the tensioner and the chain slipped because I hadn’t installed the cam locks. Luckily I’d already taken copious pictures so I could reset everything but my crank being in time was hard to confirm until I realized I could reference the marks on the balance shaft chains in the pictures to insure I was set correctly.

And that’s actually leads me to my only complaint about this diy. There’s too much rambling and it goes on a couple tangents, breaking up the meat of the DIY. Makes it a bit tricky to follow due to how all the amazing info is structured.

I guess that is a good point. As long as there is the correct number of links between marks then all should be good. Kind of like doing the vvt tensioner on the 1.8t.

So when installing the cam bridge I will need to align the cams and it should just slide on?


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[blgilles]

Here is the technique I used to get the Cam Bridge back on, from Justin B8:
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/712531-THE-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-Failure-Thread?p=13180812&viewfull=1#post13180812


Bridge installed; I cleaned the bores with acetone and then a light smear of oil. Square the bridge onto the cam noses, and then using a pry bar between the exhaust gear at 3:00 (cover with a rag) and the inside left upper housing, gently wiggle the cam gear to the outside and push it on.

[blgilles]

Oh except I skipped using acetone; just used clean/new engine oil.

[homegrowna4]

Got the car running last night, but the problem I was having before persists. Very rough idle and I'm getting timing/camshaft related engine codes. Took the top cam cover off and verified timing again with the marks on the harmonic balancer. Here are the codes I'm getting

P0300 random/multiple misfire
P0011 Camshaft A position timing-over advanced
P001C A camshaft profile control-circuit high
P0010 Camshaft A position actuator A control-circuit open
P0343 Camshaft position sensor A-circuit high input

[Charles.waite]

The open circuit codes make me think you forgot to plug in something.

[blgilles]

Exactly. So to me this seems the actuator for variable valve timing isn’t working. The open circuit code makes me thing it’s not plugged in, the cable is severed, or it’s internally damaged (say open-circuit in the actuator itself).

Have you checked the actuator electrical connection? It’s on the front, right of the motor (when looking at the car from the front).

EDIT: that guy, top middle of this photo.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mCzggrnpCu8g1dxH3S4T2yrhfATZtenBaWkrxOw1klOULt1zZh jL16sGq3ZfSzIjlFEGfPKhxjasL4fRs_quvx2pRJ_7Hj6XRTvX rU5YbuxWP5lDbqh7Hvo7wUnxoA0KQGcZo6Ix2B7dtlCxKyBYH-u3eAJ76kYwAthbHoj-XjyRzw-_Ny0ndwnKMRKQtMjyDauiIVvOjjps7_hU2SBkU8lqLVCg3WmsB fRFJquPvTYPetQJRW_z_P6u98fwqiddGci9Jl3GikdmTTtxmjJ f7KFuD8e0-q5XOpRoIpiPektX2yfB07mU77FSRH8zKjYzVMS6dxy4lznAlLG NuKQpWtPz1-yEs-KL29eARbKVi6hKRyzhqUREG8vIC42GvJnpJP_qw9fUOP_Rv9F7 qzg_TvEOdnW7T5jl75ZhEp0sHx-Sh3zGSC9LXBdK8exUdp7t4GNm0ZJyQ0ZzcW1Ha5wjmTBSjMAcw M9BCq5oYiLnVQll6iGZMMu_IaOUvfdYtfwgDfP_GCsGrbnEsqU 2wjckjGvJs8skDj2-GO0L3sQBl4cXgjUn9WvxLPF4MAPNiBt_BIlnwa5VlA_W5VJ-0RRXo6Q7NlAZ5cmT1mBMO7WNBDSf-wB84_Z5JCghNE0Y368Z0S7hrNpfbyueZ_eJMMoA_wdDk0Muyxd YsgwBrZWOIrfs9BeaRO90xLuYlg=w1016-h762-no
EDIT again, here's a better view:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g4Y5Dha_L6C12l9g-rHjBL3sVwvdZHGSsJkNFZNyApaNkns5D-zgdSyxLRcR2Jw1NQ67ePMa3h_mATYx3crO7MzHBUmo-GvA_j-7sLmfkJFRgmxJu3z-cWsmS-RfSmdTxJlmUjmA4DTBXaWSy_V6qArHb59Kb9lm48kM8V-ppEo4-ZmWHhVW2aKGj2zCP-wcSNVvJ4DMqxU3KgA9ozLJ7U9nhUo6Dx_7kgMSnp4g8tPKsks3 uJN8REeaeBY-DI5zPU7TPhCWN25j-LiJhfQpWDLvdcFSE04pTePrAhyPZlvk81MGl5wH9vekeb39FQk U3-ooVbHdy5T0ylfieGcuYEE9KQZ-lp_QUrcz6csrL5exkdU4yMkDXplp9QlQaRopt6D6hGGb9zLaXS OUIad6M5OyLJnTZy8t9qOFtlQ_fDmEjWtTWqw_3WpBw7fyQa1w kQvEuLRum5kQYqYaoSKp6qkTstE-Iz_gB-AbYpLBDi5YFyMIzIqA8pSqZWMDk4O7FXOWgaOAHvrDlRpSTtj1 vrHeQPUtTmnEGrsxDJ_8WXvYW_1cVwOcP04BDce0dzzeDJJHT-TS2dEggAsN4y95D0QEzXcP0rwuScf3Rpt1zJs9-JxWJWkEvCV7lEgr7ytnBR7cLFPE0R8Z4GEqL31J7NKJz8RMFrW kL-Ghsx5rtOz3FyqTdT3n6e_Neg=w1430-h1906-no

[Charles.waite]

Yea and if it’s non-functional that could be triggering the over-advanced code too.

Full disclosure, I neglected to connect the drivers side crash sensor on the bumper (derp) and I have an open circuit code for that which is triggering airbag warnings and an ebrake fault. Hopefully this weekend I can get that sorted and the wife can stop complaining about the beeping and warning lights.

[blgilles]

Yea and if it’s non-functional that could be triggering the over-advanced code too.


Yes, I'm thinking that too. I'm however not sure whether the variable valve timing (VVT) goes full-advanced or full-retarded (TM) by default... just don't know.


Full disclosure, I neglected to connect the drivers side crash sensor on the bumper (derp) and I have an open circuit code for that which is triggering airbag warnings and an ebrake fault. Hopefully this weekend I can get that sorted and the wife can stop complaining about the beeping and warning lights.


I had one of these fail intermittently somewhere in the interior of my B5 A4. It would work properly 99% of the time, and then randomly disconnect repeatedly and cause the instrument cluster to go nuts and the little buzzer to go off like something awful.
The quote I got from an independent to fix it was $1,700, so I went ahead and didn't do that. The car was worth probably $3,000 at that point.

Drove me nuts to the point where I disassembled the instrument cluster, found the LEDs for the airbag trigger, covered them with electrical tape and ripped out the buzzer (bottom left of the bottom photo).

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RVxGriMqoUiWLf4nfon3NoV2v07q5e-c8TAToMbZEZf_nGZbSQv_lLvGZLSRFEg-s6VD3FW03ENFrGtdhCjIfjnkUyx3v-3CF0FkUCqCmRzGambCgBHjGs8xcI5-T6RJ82uT9ZUB5EA1-_D_x7_0oYg93TctDCjWcGJLs-aATu9-LERl6TMwGqnN91pFuD2woZRRQh2_9sKeAsvlWN7xvLjNX7i-m0maovEzluLQePBM-tAAQssYcWEroMOfu-OFl7PsQXQYd_R2lY_6aa54y2eNg_owj7f-_lw3TI5-WTQ896ruwQnD4riMzErhVktL4lp5HMLwSpSzEi19NFb4U2-7gMmH7mBUa806sYz_T4ogKxnSvDtRMfRoT7P2Idgl5iF5edUp7 HP3l2MeJtBWMDtuE1GMihP0u2LdtzWcnvHk9BCVdLVgkrJklba 154KwlByvjIcHYvWBAHqUp0xB_C0oFraIQHOxJEW-p6TBuvb14DfdwmpeNyjxy-2L6OKUgJSZ9uYG4klVq4QoMfBJCjgi8xL1siQGm9sFTzScT3qL d8kIOUvrqasO5gTISMwEnstJAtR2SMBY7bIF7isi4rH0gUb1_4 oXVeSqOpfCmdmAQvXqleLbIeR7pnNya5_rbaDpj7wlsgd7c3q7 KZZqKwE4cBE3n__63fEjVIJAArNCCyezxDIqDOlpTA=w2048-h1536-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wcS43qQ9zNNuVdFVOrhqetAjssoPrAUV38voo27z9uhEEA1siz 7Ur9EuqroVShbUQlaVgiZx2AWMEqZJT3dHkUAAsOoiTOSPAWPw zzfW1DaWTsviEZv8IpHLYnhnFjXTKAJ8Ggm_oR7fm_ajbI69xZ oS3B_fyw6UVS7Yied19_j8-LwkMlWUIYb7yPj7OM-UWinYCYy2dBlrKsxwpuXEaV6vHc5fWxkqB_yzNQ8qM4rQguCtu yyUsVUY-h0_yJ0v6fS2DorOLpQC6xBNMnM_DLNbbGGuQzRttVoQ_GCynYy WZgQzyHrC5IO1gO9QPKa0C1PNuaYc8YDIz9IHb44irMM-3-OfrY14YI0FB999jbgw4sBKt-efQuvecAvnYCTe8dnSCdi6iR8XyfJ9xmCrjiDt7sOttNTs0Cha dqwJ4dIi7R1iOGuKcHW3pedHt4HpSkoStHe3mfXgfWjESDajq4 iUy075-UerWsnl4Jxrbc4gUr3zPpbxnEe2ir361TDTgLVAJ0GcTnoWUxT dB1xoZCELZAVzwYLZsEi4Bkht5jnZQknU7_ja8q5eTdnk5yMYG b_djbC_uu5s0TZrul6gvYOAjyXABgQ1DZnWRRXkWZl_vDlfGak K1MnV_FaFye_BPG4x6zVyiDcJndP2z4shaP1Z41twd_rqVMLIg 1zKl5Ks8XgNDK_6k-b9aQ=w1016-h762-no

No more random flashing and buzzing. Had the added benefit that my car could no longer buzz at me for any reason, which was oh-so nice, but did result on me leaving my lights on once or twice a year. :-)

[homegrowna4]

Exactly. So to me this seems the actuator for variable valve timing isn’t working. The open circuit code makes me thing it’s not plugged in, the cable is severed, or it’s internally damaged (say open-circuit in the actuator itself).

Have you checked the actuator electrical connection? It’s on the front, right of the motor (when looking at the car from the front).

EDIT: that guy, top middle of this photo.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mCzggrnpCu8g1dxH3S4T2yrhfATZtenBaWkrxOw1klOULt1zZh jL16sGq3ZfSzIjlFEGfPKhxjasL4fRs_quvx2pRJ_7Hj6XRTvX rU5YbuxWP5lDbqh7Hvo7wUnxoA0KQGcZo6Ix2B7dtlCxKyBYH-u3eAJ76kYwAthbHoj-XjyRzw-_Ny0ndwnKMRKQtMjyDauiIVvOjjps7_hU2SBkU8lqLVCg3WmsB fRFJquPvTYPetQJRW_z_P6u98fwqiddGci9Jl3GikdmTTtxmjJ f7KFuD8e0-q5XOpRoIpiPektX2yfB07mU77FSRH8zKjYzVMS6dxy4lznAlLG NuKQpWtPz1-yEs-KL29eARbKVi6hKRyzhqUREG8vIC42GvJnpJP_qw9fUOP_Rv9F7 qzg_TvEOdnW7T5jl75ZhEp0sHx-Sh3zGSC9LXBdK8exUdp7t4GNm0ZJyQ0ZzcW1Ha5wjmTBSjMAcw M9BCq5oYiLnVQll6iGZMMu_IaOUvfdYtfwgDfP_GCsGrbnEsqU 2wjckjGvJs8skDj2-GO0L3sQBl4cXgjUn9WvxLPF4MAPNiBt_BIlnwa5VlA_W5VJ-0RRXo6Q7NlAZ5cmT1mBMO7WNBDSf-wB84_Z5JCghNE0Y368Z0S7hrNpfbyueZ_eJMMoA_wdDk0Muyxd YsgwBrZWOIrfs9BeaRO90xLuYlg=w1016-h762-no
EDIT again, here's a better view:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g4Y5Dha_L6C12l9g-rHjBL3sVwvdZHGSsJkNFZNyApaNkns5D-zgdSyxLRcR2Jw1NQ67ePMa3h_mATYx3crO7MzHBUmo-GvA_j-7sLmfkJFRgmxJu3z-cWsmS-RfSmdTxJlmUjmA4DTBXaWSy_V6qArHb59Kb9lm48kM8V-ppEo4-ZmWHhVW2aKGj2zCP-wcSNVvJ4DMqxU3KgA9ozLJ7U9nhUo6Dx_7kgMSnp4g8tPKsks3 uJN8REeaeBY-DI5zPU7TPhCWN25j-LiJhfQpWDLvdcFSE04pTePrAhyPZlvk81MGl5wH9vekeb39FQk U3-ooVbHdy5T0ylfieGcuYEE9KQZ-lp_QUrcz6csrL5exkdU4yMkDXplp9QlQaRopt6D6hGGb9zLaXS OUIad6M5OyLJnTZy8t9qOFtlQ_fDmEjWtTWqw_3WpBw7fyQa1w kQvEuLRum5kQYqYaoSKp6qkTstE-Iz_gB-AbYpLBDi5YFyMIzIqA8pSqZWMDk4O7FXOWgaOAHvrDlRpSTtj1 vrHeQPUtTmnEGrsxDJ_8WXvYW_1cVwOcP04BDce0dzzeDJJHT-TS2dEggAsN4y95D0QEzXcP0rwuScf3Rpt1zJs9-JxWJWkEvCV7lEgr7ytnBR7cLFPE0R8Z4GEqL31J7NKJz8RMFrW kL-Ghsx5rtOz3FyqTdT3n6e_Neg=w1430-h1906-no

That was my first thought when I saw the open circuit. I did have the engine and trans out to do a clutch(how this whole project started 3 months ago...) so I triple checked all the connections however I didn't test anything with a multimeter. Could possibly be a ground too I guess. I'll look it all over again later.

Been doing tons of searching and ran across some people who had these codes due to a bad injector or coilpack too. Had the intake off to do carbon cleaning so there are a ton of things that could be causing this I need to chase down

[blgilles]

Interesting. I wouldn't expect these as a result of a bad injector/coilpack.

[Charles.waite]

Yea I suppose if there’s a bad ground in the wiring it could cascade a number of errors. But that’s still a wiring issue not strictly a coil pack issue.

Still, open circuit almost always means you forgot to plug something in. Or that a wire got stretched and disconnected.

[Theiceman]

Dont think it gets easier with 8.5 either. They even took the screws away. I broke 3. Found out though you can push the pin right through. If you can find the pin after you can reuse it.



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[Kolbenringe]

Hey, this thread will be a reference for my upcoming timing chain tensioner job. Thanks a bunch for those who are putting the info up.

I have a question (and kept trying to search not only here, but throughout the web): I'm in Germany, I have a CDN 2.0 tfsi with an Stronic A4Q Avant. I have the timing chain job coming up, even though the chain is in great shape, but I want to change the tensioner, so will be pulling everything. My oil pan is leaking a bit again, but not much, but will eventually get worse. Also I would like to change the pistons.

Basically, is there anywhere online that has a good explanation of the removal of the engine and if it can be done without a lift to get it unhooked from the transmission? I'm thinking of doing a quick and dirty, if at all possible, meaning to lock the cams, not remove the head, and just throw the pistons and rods in, kind of like what one would do if it was possible to change the parts in-car.

While I'm at it, would change out the rear main.

I've tried German sites, but most people just say "no, you can't do that, take it to a shop, that's illegal to work on your own car" and other similar cultural nonsense.

[Charles.waite]

I doubt there’s going to be an engine removal DIY.

Not sure what your work space is like but you might be able to get away with leaving the engine in and dropping the trans if all you need access to is the rear main seal.

I’m about to pull my engine soon, but I’ve never done it before. As I understand you just need to disconnect the ecu, all the fuel and coolant lines (might as well drain the oil too) and make sure all the wiring is disconnected from the engine. Then remove driveshafts and axles or the dozen or so bolts holding the trans to the engine depending on it you want to leave the trans connected to the engine or leave it in the car.

[Theiceman]

Hey, this thread will be a reference for my upcoming timing chain tensioner job. Thanks a bunch for those who are putting the info up.

I have a question (and kept trying to search not only here, but throughout the web): I'm in Germany, I have a CDN 2.0 tfsi with an Stronic A4Q Avant. I have the timing chain job coming up, even though the chain is in great shape, but I want to change the tensioner, so will be pulling everything. My oil pan is leaking a bit again, but not much, but will eventually get worse. Also I would like to change the pistons.

Basically, is there anywhere online that has a good explanation of the removal of the engine and if it can be done without a lift to get it unhooked from the transmission? I'm thinking of doing a quick and dirty, if at all possible, meaning to lock the cams, not remove the head, and just throw the pistons and rods in, kind of like what one would do if it was possible to change the parts in-car.

While I'm at it, would change out the rear main.

I've tried German sites, but most people just say "no, you can't do that, take it to a shop, that's illegal to work on your own car" and other similar cultural nonsense.

go on line there are time lapse videos of this . The quick and dirty IS to remove the head ( with turbo and intake and cams all still in place ) .
to do it any other way you are completely removing crank shaft and that has its own share of headaches.
I'm about to do it too and it can be done on jack stands, although not ideal for sure.

[Charles.waite]

You don’t have to remove the crank to do pistons, at least not on older 1.8t/2.0t engines. You remove the head, drop the pan, then unbolt the rod caps and pull the piston and rod out the top. I’m re-ringing my pistons and that’s what I plan on doing. I have a spare engine on a stand so I’ll have it out to rebuild it then just swap with my existing engine when it’s ready to go.

[Kolbenringe]

You don’t have to remove the crank to do pistons, at least not on older 1.8t/2.0t engines. You remove the head, drop the pan, then unbolt the rod caps and pull the piston and rod out the top. I’m re-ringing my pistons and that’s what I plan on doing. I have a spare engine on a stand so I’ll have it out to rebuild it then just swap with my existing engine when it’s ready to go.

This doesn't apply to the CDN/CDNC EA888 motors like what I have. There's an upper oil pan in the way and the only way to remove it is to pull the engine and transmission apart to get the two lower bolts off the rear main seal plate. The point is I want to minimize work and avoid pulling the head. It's a low-mileage engine. I'm sure the procedure is outlined in Bentley, but we don't have them here. We just have elementary books similar to Chiltons. The DIY culture here is very limited.

This is a well-known procedure, Audi has already confirmed the engine needs to be pulled and there are actually timelapse videos of such on Youtube, but no close-up specifics. If I pull the transmission, sure, it can be done in-car, but it's considered something that adds quite a bit of labor, plus it's much easier to seal the oil pan when the engine is out and change the timing set and the cam bridge, which I was planning on doing this weekend anyhow.

[Charles.waite]

There might be a procedure in ELSAWIN I could dig up. They often have stuff like that and you can save it in PDF format.

I can see what I can find. I might need some specific info on your car for elsawin to find the correct car configuration though so if you want to shoot me a PM I can probably get it figured out.

[Kolbenringe]

There might be a procedure in ELSAWIN I could dig up. They often have stuff like that and you can save it in PDF format.

I can see what I can find. I might need some specific info on your car for elsawin to find the correct car configuration though so if you want to shoot me a PM I can probably get it figured out.

That would be great. What I am guessing is thst without a ton of clearance under the car, the transmission to flywheel bolts will be tough to pull. If I see otherwise, then I will rent a storage unit, a hoist, and an engine stand and do the job over a week or so.

Labor costs are extremely high, parts costs extremely high, and Audi doesn't fully recognize this as an issue. Plus even though my car was serviced and sold by audi as a certified, one service was performed by a non-contracted workshop, so thry keep hinging on that point for everything, even when there's no relevance.

[Charles.waite]

When I did my clutch on my b6 I got some tall jack stands and was able to drop the trans and change the clutch. Unless Audi has significantly changed how they mate their engines and transmissions, I would expect unbolting the trans is very much doable with the drivetrain in the car but I wouldn’t stake my life on it.

I’ll see if I can pull up a procedure for engine removal for you. I may need a VIN but i might just need year, model and engine size. If you don’t mind posting that info that would be helpful. Obviously don’t post your VIN but I might need that, and you can shoot that through PM if you’re okay with that. I’m a trustworthy person.

[Kolbenringe]

When I did my clutch on my b6 I got some tall jack stands and was able to drop the trans and change the clutch. Unless Audi has significantly changed how they mate their engines and transmissions, I would expect unbolting the trans is very much doable with the drivetrain in the car but I wouldn’t stake my life on it.

I’ll see if I can pull up a procedure for engine removal for you. I may need a VIN but i might just need year, model and engine size. If you don’t mind posting that info that would be helpful. Obviously don’t post your VIN but I might need that, and you can shoot that through PM if you’re okay with that. I’m a trustworthy person.

Build year is 2010 (BJ 2010) A4 Avant Quattro 2.0 tfsi 155kw/211ps Stronic. See if you can get something going with that, won't be near the car for a couple of days.

TIA

[02A63.0Q]

Just did mine on 2010 avant. BIG THANKS TO OP!!

Now I know why my mechanic won't do jobs that involve service position, removing the front was the worst part. I was able to remove fromt without talking wheels off. Once you peel back the bumper from the side, and like 2 screws f
r the liner

[02A63.0Q]

Won't let me edit. Once two screws are off the liner you can just bend it back to get at the odd 10mms. For the front, you can def leave the AC and intercooler on the radiator and hang the whole thing up. I have overheard supports and used nylon cam buckle straps to support the weight. I left AC lines connected. Pulled it about 60 degrees from the engine and had plenty of room. I have atf lines. Plugged them with soft ear plugs and rubberbanded a balloon over each one to keep fluid losses low. I did lose a little. No mark on my lower TC cover to line with harm balancer so got to tdc with that off. Spun it FOREVER to get there and crank + both cams all off 2 links. As I cranked it i could see the old tensioner backing in and the chain jumping. It's a wonder my chain was off yet still timed. I did have trouble at high rpm a few weeks ago on the highway which spurred the immediacy of the repair. I knew I was good bc the balancer chains were spot on. I used the schwaben kit from ecs and it was awesome. If anyone wants to buy a used once version, hit me up. I got the lawsuit letter but I am already at 110k so SOL. Once cams were locked I had a tough time getting the new chain on until I realized the old one was stretched, so I removed the exhaust locking pin and nudged it a half tooth over to accommodate the closer links. I also used permatex right stuff on the lower cover. Used it before for valve cover and no leaks. In fact, it can seal itself in the bottle, this job was with a 1 yo tube ( I tested see first). after putting the @#$_+$+!!! Front end back on the car ran like a dream. I also did the serp, pulley and tensioner while I was in there no brainer for 100 bucks. Got everything from ecs. Oh, and my screen on the cam bridge was blown out. it was stuck I'm the galley with a piece of its frame, thankfully I was able to remove it with a strong magnet. If I ever do this again I am outsourcing the bumper removal and only doing the chains. Took about 15 hours, 3 of which were for a stripped tc cover screw, and two for mixing up front end screws. The part with the chain was a piece of cake besides all the cranking.

EDIT: This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91knYL1hEeU

I had a hell of a time getting my lower radiator hose on, and it turns out I was slowly leaking. Evidently the o ring inside gets jammed up and the hose won't go all the way back on. Drained the coolant off again into clean buckets, opened it up, wiped it out with a very tiny amount of WD40 on a rag, and it snapped back together perfectly with zero effort. Also, kegerator tubing fits the drain rather well.

[Theiceman]

I just took the engine out of my 8.5 this weekend. About 4 hours ti get the front end off. Next night about 4 more to extract the engine. It got hung up and had to use a pry bar to separate the two. But she came eventually. 93092


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[Charles.waite]

I also used the Schwaben Timing tool kit from ECS. It’s great.

Also the pictures don’t do justice to how freaking beefy that crank holder is. Good lord!

[A4 Centaur]

If you need the Service Manual, PM me with your email and I'll put it in DropBox for ya!

[Charles.waite]

Build year is 2010 (BJ 2010) A4 Avant Quattro 2.0 tfsi 155kw/211ps Stronic. See if you can get something going with that, won't be near the car for a couple of days.

TIA

Oh crap I dropped the ball on that. You still need it?

[Kolbenringe]

Oh crap I dropped the ball on that. You still need it?

Any help is great, sure. I'm in the middle of swapping out my timing chains right now, since the tensioner is a ticking time bomb. The manual would be great even for that. Had to pause until I get a new oil chain rail. The replacement doesn't have a bolt and I dont want to break the old one that's nearly perfect to swap one over that might not even fit through the hole.

[A4 Centaur]

^ Put it in DropBox for ya!

[02A63.0Q]

The oil chain Tensioner seemed like a simple plastic rail with a simple wire spring. Also I don't think that the timing matters on the oil chaim bc it drives a separate pump. I did not even change mine. it would have been a lot more work to drop the pan for that. The problem part is that primary chain tensioner. Even if you *only* replaced that, while not ideal, you may not have issues for a long long time. My balance chain was perfectly taught and timed. Only the primary was jumping. The others are so short play might not ever be enough

[Charles.waite]

Yea the oil pump doesn’t need to be in time so don’t worry about that.

[Kolbenringe]

^ Put it in DropBox for ya!

Many thanks!

[Icemix]

I just had my engine rebuilt, 1.8 TFSI CABD 2008. Careful with the aluminium screws that hold together the engine and transmission. They are so fragile! I had one break when putting everything back together

[Theiceman]

I just had my engine rebuilt, 1.8 TFSI CABD 2008. Careful with the aluminium screws that hold together the engine and transmission. They are so fragile! I had one break when putting everything back together

did you torque them ? aren't they TTY bolts ??? what torque did you use ?

[Icemix]

did you torque them ? aren't they TTY bolts ??? what torque did you use ?

I'm guessing they are TTY. Torque used was the one specified in elsawin. Thing is the engine was assembled before work and after work, when the mechanic had time, and since one day at 6 AM we realised that we haven't ordered new bolts, we reused the old ones.

[Kolbenringe]

Wait, those bolts can't be "aluminum". They have coatings on them, but aren't aluminum.

[Icemix]

Wait, those bolts can't be "aluminum". They have coatings on them, but aren't aluminum.

they aren't? I just assumed as much. they are unbelievably light

[Kolbenringe]

Can someone check? I can't reach in with a magnet until tomorrow.

Edit, double checked via etka and pretty much every bolt has a different part number. Thry are the silver coated steel bolts.

Here's an example part number n91129501

[Theiceman]

they aren't? I just assumed as much. they are unbelievably light

yeah no kidding hard to believe those things are steel, I would have thought aluminum or some very light aluminum alloy.

[LS1K5]

I'm in the middle of the timing chain and balance chain replacement, took the cam bridge off and only half the screen was in place and the other half is nowhere to be found. Someone had been in there before so I'm wondering if they got the screen at that time but don't know why they wouldn't have removed the rest of the screen at the same time. It's had the p0016 code for over 5000 miles and just recently was low on power and had the underboost code P0299, I don't think this car is worth tearing apart anymore to see if the screen is in there somewhere. If the screen had gotten into the intake cam timing actuator it would have different codes right?

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[nbk9nbk]

Thanks for this diy OP. Mine had timing jumped a little.... https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/3ac43a9dc268216179b21c1e7755d8af.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/acb5a0a47bcf8d6c7d3b5107bafed832.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/a6f49eeb7bebe4ab2cacf408b160662b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/b7a1cb28bd3ac8fae064699ffbd1dc56.jpg

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[qmulus]

I'm in the middle of the timing chain and balance chain replacement, took the cam bridge off and only half the screen was in place and the other half is nowhere to be found. Someone had been in there before so I'm wondering if they got the screen at that time but don't know why they wouldn't have removed the rest of the screen at the same time. It's had the p0016 code for over 5000 miles and just recently was low on power and had the underboost code P0299, I don't think this car is worth tearing apart anymore to see if the screen is in there somewhere. If the screen had gotten into the intake cam timing actuator it would have different codes right?

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My guess is that you will find the rest of the screen in the screen/restrictor on the vacuum pump. That is where I found the parts of the three screens I found blown out that weren't right at the cam bridge. I would recommend removing it and cleaning that screen if you find the screen parts missing. That screen/restrictor seems to get pretty full of debris in my experience, and it is what supplies the vacuum pump and HPFP with lubrication, so it is a good thing to have clear.

I have heard that the parts can also get stuck in the spool valve, or intake cam adjuster. The spool valve can be disassembled and cleaned easily, but the cam adjuster is not quite so easy.

I think most people don't bother looking for the parts if there are no symptoms, but I do.

Just my $.02. YMMV

[nbk9nbk]

Put new stuff in in proper location, and it worked. Also pics of stretched chain vs new chain. Original did was installed by Audi. Might help some onehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/e51e73c32ef743b9138c44c381617614.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/d0ac0bbed7becab421c0a3f44a51474a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/16dce53c6914ce8b9be38fdc9ac3bace.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/ebdd9c213f635908e0f22a00465b1f27.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/aff2b58d8dafa387e1fb901f4e6eab76.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/9edca26bc50049f018b980b33de26a00.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/5afedfb1f7da694e8ff7ea9c837a3336.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/6a128864a17d7925caecee4b6923251c.jpg

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[LS1K5]

Thanks, the vacuum pump is leaking anyway so I might check that and replace the leaking cover seal. Thanks to the op for the great DIY post also!

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[Kolbenringe]

Oh no, all that work and you installed one of those Chinese reproduction parts kits. especially the tensioner. It's not worth it to go through all that work and install counterfeit/low quality Chinese reproductions in there from Ebay or wherever. It's been covered already regarding the pricing and that there have to be many corners cut. Not to mention, you didn't even get the updated main chain with it.

[nbk9nbk]

Oh no, all that work and you installed one of those Chinese reproduction parts kits. especially the tensioner. It's not worth it to go through all that work and install counterfeit/low quality Chinese reproductions in there from Ebay or wherever. It's been covered already regarding the pricing and that there have to be many corners cut. Not to mention, you didn't even get the updated main chain with it.With the timing looking like it jumped so much thought the motor was toast, so threw it in as a last hope try. Quality was good all plastic parts, chain was not the same quality as oem but still was good... will update if anything fails.

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So timing jumped again... will update with Chinese failed part..soon

[LS1K5]

My guess is that you will find the rest of the screen in the screen/restrictor on the vacuum pump. That is where I found the parts of the three screens I found blown out that weren't right at the cam bridge. I would recommend removing it and cleaning that screen if you find the screen parts missing. That screen/restrictor seems to get pretty full of debris in my experience, and it is what supplies the vacuum pump and HPFP with lubrication, so it is a good thing to have clear.

I have heard that the parts can also get stuck in the spool valve, or intake cam adjuster. The spool valve can be disassembled and cleaned easily, but the cam adjuster is not quite so easy.

I think most people don't bother looking for the parts if there are no symptoms, but I do.

Just my $.02. YMMVJust found the rest of the screen in the far-left left or passenger side oil passage, that was a relief!

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[LS1K5]

I used febi chains on my project and the balance shaft chain was a little confusing but there are 15 links between all of the markers used on the B8, ignore the copper colored marker and the two right next to each other.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190313/51724d2a59f29d5b04e9aeeb39a05877.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190313/e2ac456725be519b3e2db7cdf74a6039.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190313/fe2a0108286461815b73b34079057c55.jpg

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[Snakeman]

This is great post, ordering parts today, I’m little scared


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[Kolbenringe]

This is great post, ordering parts today, I’m little scared


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I was when I did mine, too, mostly due to fear of breaking the fragile parts. It proved mostly unfounded, though. I did all my work with a mirror. My suggestion is to go over and over the two-part video series from Edge Motors on youtube regarding the timing chain until everything in your head sticks. There's a thread I started that you can search for that has some pitfalls in it that I put out there, but it all worked out in the end.

[Kolbenringe]

I used febi chains on my project and the balance shaft chain was a little confusing but there are 15 links between all of the markers used on the B8, ignore the copper colored marker and the two right next to each other.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190313/51724d2a59f29d5b04e9aeeb39a05877.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190313/e2ac456725be519b3e2db7cdf74a6039.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190313/fe2a0108286461815b73b34079057c55.jpg

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The balance shaft timing chain orientation also threw me off, then I decided to just follow the way Edge Motors oriented everything in their video since the place is solid and can mostly be trusted, I think. Car is back together and runs just fine, no additional harshness, nothing.

[LS1K5]

So I got the car all back together again and it still has the p0016 code and the p2293 code, I'm guessing the intake cam timing actuator is stuck or something but the fuel pressure regulator two performance code doesn't make any sense. Mine is an A4 B8, has anyone run into this?

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[Kolbenringe]

Did you check if your camshaft bridge screen was intact?

[NYDCB]

^
Is it ever? lol!

[Kolbenringe]

^
Is it ever? lol!

The screen in my factory bridge actually was intact, but I replaced the bridge anyhow. Some remove the screen, but that scares me seeing that the stupid check valve inside is also a failure point and breaks off.

[LS1K5]

Did you check if your camshaft bridge screen was intact?It was not intact but I found the other half in the exhaust cam oil passage and removed it, I also put new seals in the vacuum pump and there was some burnt oil in that screen but not too bad. Here is the timeline with this car: a couple months ago my friend stops by and asked me to check out the check engine light, read and cleared p0016 and the code came back within a few miles of driving. At that time the timing chain made horrible noise on start up but went away once oil pressure built up, he had been driving it for five thousand miles that way and other than the code it seemed to drive fine. A couple weeks ago he said the car made a loud noise on a long start up and had no power, I checked and cleared the codes again p0016 and p0299. I drove it up and down the driveway and the codes came back this time with the addition of p2293, I checked the cam tensioner and timing. It had jumped at least one tooth but still idled fine and the tensioner was at the limit of its travel but still working. I replaced the balance shaft chain, timing chain, tensioner, guides and now the car starts up normally, idles fine and has good power but the p0016 and p2293 codes persist.

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[LS1K5]

I used a dial indicator to verify TDC and this is where the cam timing is now, somebody has been in here before and I think they may have screwed up the timing chain drive gear so that it's no longer oriented to the crankshaft correctly.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190314/0d75e6f45cd1680e3cc8bd646dbf3fe5.jpg

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[LS1K5]

My suspicions were correct, if you have the p0016 code take the timing chain drive gear off and inspect it! Don't learn the hard way like I did and assume that it's installed correctly, I should have verified the timing mark on the crank pulley and TDC before taking it apart. I was wondering why the crank pulley was a little wobbly before I disassembled it, now I know.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190315/a4d5885322f99bab7ada76190cdc7953.jpg

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[Charles.waite]

Oh jeeze. You’d think one would double check that the notch was lined up before cranking it down. Evidently not...

[mtroxel]

I used a dial indicator to verify TDC and this is where the cam timing is now, somebody has been in here before and I think they may have screwed up the timing chain drive gear so that it's no longer oriented to the crankshaft correctly.

I see your note about the chewed up timing gear so you're right, someone really didn't know what they're doing. But you also can't tell much from the timing links lining up on the cam sprockets. They only line up about once every 20 RPMs.

[Theiceman]

Oh jeeze. You’d think one would double check that the notch was lined up before cranking it down. Evidently not...

Yup this is an install problem. Always verify everything on install. You put it back wrong.
You don’t get to blame the last guy. Uou own this


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[LS1K5]

Yup this is an install problem. Always verify everything on install. You put it back wrong.
You don’t get to blame the last guy. Uou own this


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Yes, I said I own this! Read the post, I do get to blame the last guy for screwing up the timing gear. It shouldn't go on more than one way, wtf is wrong with a key way Audi?

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[LS1K5]

So car is done and drives great now, no more p0016, p2293 or p0299 yay!

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[Snakeman]

I didn’t order parts yet, i have a6 2014 2.0t 65k miles, only p0016 code at the moment, engine run smooth, everything seems fine, hoping for best,


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[Snakeman]

4 weeks ago i replace pcv, i had p2187 and whistle sound, bought new one from dealer (so I thought)and after replacing i get those 111371111372111373111374111375111376
111377




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[Snakeman]

I had very long talk with guy in parts department when i try to replace a part, took me 40 minutes to convince him that the part he sold me was bad, than after receiving new one I inspected old very closely and discovered pry tool marks on digraph part


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[Snakeman]

Looks like guys in audi exchange in chicago refurbish parts and sell them as new


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[Snakeman]

I informed AudiUsa about this, [emoji23][emoji23] and they send me thank you card and free first aid kit( so I believe i will need this one after my next visit to this dealer)


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[Snakeman]

So long story short do You guys thing that very bad oil separator can contribute to p0016


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[Spawne32]

I see your note about the chewed up timing gear so you're right, someone really didn't know what they're doing. But you also can't tell much from the timing links lining up on the cam sprockets. They only line up about once every 20 RPMs.

lol let me tell you something, ive built dozens of engines in my lifetime, but this is my first time working on german cars specifically this indepth. I made the same mistake and I can tell you that this is litterally the first time I have ever encountered a crank sprocket that is not keyed directly to the crankshaft. Most people would never speculate that the sprocket was not keyed in such a way that it would not come out of time with the crank itself if you loosened up on the bolt. I was fortunate in that my car wouldnt start after I put it all back together, and was lucky enough to discover the issue. German's have some really intuitive designs for things, and there are other things that you ask yourself, why would you change the way this works, when it has worked a certain way well for 100 years.

[Kolbenringe]

lol let me tell you something, ive built dozens of engines in my lifetime, but this is my first time working on german cars specifically this indepth. I made the same mistake and I can tell you that this is litterally the first time I have ever encountered a crank sprocket that is not keyed directly to the crankshaft. Most people would never speculate that the sprocket was not keyed in such a way that it would not come out of time with the crank itself if you loosened up on the bolt. I was fortunate in that my car wouldnt start after I put it all back together, and was lucky enough to discover the issue. German's have some really intuitive designs for things, and there are other things that you ask yourself, why would you change the way this works, when it has worked a certain way well for 100 years.

They threw sense out the door in trying to save as much material as possible and make the engines as short as possible. They weren't just thinking of the interface, they were thinking of how to remove mass from the front of the car, particularly in front of the axle. They did this without common sense to reign them back in and the result is the EA888, where doing pretty much anything requires breaking down other regions of the engine or just rebuilding it (ie: changing a water pump belt risks having to remove the front of the car and performing a timing set job) or if the upper oil pan starts leaking, then it's engine or transmission out. The list goes on and on. The risk is high, even for dealers who performed stage 1 oil consumption repairs. Mine had it and I can totally see where and how they could have placed the gear wrong, but luckily mine was all good. The front crank seal was crooked, though.

Overall, this company is as bad a shitshow as it was in the 80s, just fumbling around and accumulating the bad engineering and combining these philosophies in every new product.

[cyclonebax]

Thanks for the write up and information.

I'm in process of pulling the motor on my 2011 A4. Bought it cheap due to oil consumption. Planning to pull engine and change pistons, rods and rings. Timing chain needs replaced, but didn't want to put that money into it if there was a possibility of damaged cylinder walls.

[Theiceman]

Thanks for the write up and information.

I'm in process of pulling the motor on my 2011 A4. Bought it cheap due to oil consumption. Planning to pull engine and change pistons, rods and rings. Timing chain needs replaced, but didn't want to put that money into it if there was a possibility of damaged cylinder walls.

Read over my refresh thread. If you have any questions just reach out


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[EP9395]

My screen is shot on the back of the cam bridge, dealer says they only sell whole bridge for $300. Can I get just the screen somewhere, or put it back together commando style? I already spent a mint on OE parts but this seems like im being taken for a ride, I have a pack of those screens for my pipe.....

[Charles.waite]

You can just remove the screen. You lose that bit of protection but I’d question how useful it is.

Mine was blown out, luckily I was able to recover the piece whole. But it was pretty clean and clear. No signs of blockage. So as long as you’re good about oil change intervals and use good synthetic and a good filter you shouldn’t really have much to worry about I would think.

[Theiceman]

My screen is shot on the back of the cam bridge, dealer says they only sell whole bridge for $300. Can I get just the screen somewhere, or put it back together commando style? I already spent a mint on OE parts but this seems like im being taken for a ride, I have a pack of those screens for my pipe.....

you can get screens on ebay i believe along with the check valve .. you can even get a chineesium cam bridge for cheap. I just ripped out the screen and moved on.

[Kolbenringe]

My screen is shot on the back of the cam bridge, dealer says they only sell whole bridge for $300. Can I get just the screen somewhere, or put it back together commando style? I already spent a mint on OE parts but this seems like im being taken for a ride, I have a pack of those screens for my pipe.....

Don't bother with the screen, pop it out, and hopefully the check valve doesn't blow out. Last I checked, replacement screens were discontinued by Audi, but Ebay has Chinese reproduction ones and I definitely wouldn't trust them. You can also order a Valeo cam bridge, which is the original. They even ground off the Audi-VW logos quite poorly on mine.

Audi also has a recommendation somewhere to remove the screen and reinstall the bridge. Don't know where the document is.

[Charles.waite]

Previous 2.0t (FSI ones) had a similar inlet screen on the timing chain housing on the back that did the same thing, it was a last ditch filter for the oil going to the timing adjuster, tensioner, HPFP, and vacuum pump. It’s a basket style one, similar to a fuel injector screen filter but same basic purpose.

It could also get really funded up and blow out, in fact I bought a timing housing off eBay to scavenge parts from and resell and the screen was blown out. Couldn’t find a replacement screen anywhere of course so I just popped it out. And I’m rebuilding a 2.0t on the side to swap into my b7 since the engine is sickly, and I also popped the screen out as it seemed kinda occluded. I would hesitate to say they’re unnecessary, however given they’re not available separately, and the components they’re a part of are over $300 new, I said screw it and will run without one on my b7. I ended up replacing the whole cam bridge on my q5 though, mostly out of an abundance of caution. And I hadn’t seen posts about being able to just pop it out.

[Kolbenringe]

I don't have the reference bulletin from Audi anymore, but here is one that refers to the bulletin:

http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/TB091917-1.pdf

[Chillaxin]

Mine was the same. An Audi service shop manager told me that they remove the screen when they see them broken. Just remove it and move on.

[mtroxel]

Mine was gone at 85,000 miles too. I assume it was gone when the dealer did Stage 2 oil consumption at 65,000 miles. I just put it back on, I now have 110,000 miles on it.

[EP9395]

Thanks for the input, I’m discarding the screen, having a fearful moment here setting the lower timing chain, my other two marks lines up on the left tensioner and the crank, but the right side tensioner seems to be 180 out, the car ran with no issues when I took it apart and I was very careful that that the driver side shaft didn’t move at all, here are some pics, can I rotate any of these other shafts to align it?

[EP9395]

116595116594116595116594116597116596

[Chillaxin]

EP9395, The balance shafts can be rotated without damaging anything. From the last picture, your right side (driver side) balance shaft sprocket is about 180 degrees from where it should be. There is a little dot on the front of the sprocket, half way into a tooth, that should line up with the black link in the chain. Marks on the other sprockets look good. The balance shaft chain has equal links between all the black marks. Just line one up to the crank mark, then align the passenger side sprocket, and finally the driver side. Then start putting in your top and right guides, with the bottom left tensioner guide for last, then install tensioner.

[EP9395]

EP9395, The balance shafts can be rotated without damaging anything. From the last picture, your right side (driver side) balance shaft sprocket is about 180 degrees from where it should be. There is a little dot on the front of the sprocket, half way into a tooth, that should line up with the black link in the chain. Marks on the other sprockets look good. The balance shaft chain has equal links between all the black marks. Just line one up to the crank mark, then align the passenger side sprocket, and finally the driver side. Then start putting in your top and right guides, with the bottom left tensioner guide for last, then install tensioner.


Ok, I set the tooth on the crank, then held everything still and rotated the just forget side balance shaft counter clockwise a few rotations and now I have the little dots on the inner sprocket sandwiched and the mark is at about 2 o clock and matches the the mark on the chain. I was just hesitant because nothing moved much when I took it apart I was just hoping to drape the new chain over and it would all line up.

[Theiceman]

Nope his pics look corect. That last pic is how it is supposed to look.
The dots line up kn the sprocket as he has it. That is not where the link goes. It goes further to the right exactly how he has it
116671116671

This is my engine. Once he has the three dots lined up on the idler. Then you put the link on the dot on the idler. He has it correct.

[EP9395]

edit

[Theiceman]

I have no idea what you are talking about but the timing chain coloured links should be in the identified teeth on the sprockets. Make sure they didn’t jump when releasing the tensioner


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[Chillaxin]

Nope his pics look corect. That last pic is how it is supposed to look.
The dots line up kn the sprocket as he has it. That is not where the link goes. It goes further to the right exactly how he has it
116671116671

This is my engine. Once he has the three dots lined up on the idler. Then you put the link on the dot on the idler. He has it correct.

See Pic. This is NOT correct alignment for install of the balance shaft chain.

116767

[Chillaxin]

THE COLORED LINKS MUST LINE UP EXACTLY WITH ALL THE TIMING MARKS ON THE CRANK, EXHAUST, AND INTAKE SPROKETS. 1 TOOTH OFF IS NOT CORRECT. DO IT PROPERLY WHILE YOU ARE IN THERE.

[Kolbenringe]

Also what throws people off (and me) was the orientation of the colored links of the balancer chain. The reference links for us are not equidistant and that throws people off and threw me off. I made a screencap out of what Edgemotors did and all was golden. The double links can go between the two shafts or between the passenger side shaft and the crank and the orientation is very similar. I believe Edge put the double colored links on the long run. I did the same and the car runs identical to factory. I figure Edge is renowned enough that there shouldn't be a problem following them.

[Charles.waite]

The different chains have slightly different link patterns too. The main identifying ones are in the same place but the rest varied between my old and new chain so I just took lots of pictures, counted links and made sure everything was identical, link wise since the 8° stretch meant the gears might actually move positions ever so slightly.

[Theiceman]

See Pic. This is NOT correct alignment for install of the balance shaft chain.

116767

My apologies. If that is where the dot is yup he is off a rotation. That dot should be at about 1 o’clock and sitting on the coloured link.


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[EP9395]

I went ahead and went back thru the timing procedure again and got everything to line up perfectly. I rotated the engine over before putting on the lower cover to verify the alignment of the chains and sprockets, everything was perfect. I put on the lower cover and Balancer and rechecked the timing with the marks on the lower cover, everything perfect again. I get it fired up and it runs great but after a few seconds its throws a p0016 code, and the cam pahse adjustment reads way out of whack. The car feels perfect and doesn't have any other codes, if I clear it it really runs great. Any ideas besides tearing it down again? 118911118912118913118914118915

[Kolbenringe]

Your main sprocket looks damaged in a way I've never seen before.

[Charles.waite]

Yea, what’s up with that huge gap on the bottom of the sprocket? That can’t be normal...

[EP9395]

Thats oil.

[Charles.waite]

Thats oil.

Oh wow.... HAHAHA!

well then carry on!

[Kolbenringe]

hah, regardless, I would pull the upper timing cover and then rotate the crank and see what everything looks like. If the chain didn't jump, it could also mean the main cog is not on right- a common issue.

Further causes of correlation issues can also be if the screen from the cam bridge blew out and is in an oil galley and/or deeper and caused damage.

[EP9395]

The cam bridge screen was whole and and sitting right against the head. My question is if the main cog is off how would I ever be able to time it accurately ever again?

[Theiceman]

If by main cog you mean crank sprocket it is indexed to the crank it's just not as easy to see as most

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[Kolbenringe]

The cam bridge screen was whole and and sitting right against the head. My question is if the main cog is off how would I ever be able to time it accurately ever again?

The crank snub has a flat on the outer circumference. The flat should face up the centerline of the crank. It's a terrible design, btw, and I wonder how many with Stage 1 jobs on their cars ended up with damaged gears. Audi actually revised the holder tool into this elborate thing that costs a lot of money and is difficult to use in tight confines because there appears to have been enough of an issue with the timing gear slipping with the donut. It likely comes from people who were not being gentle or using power tools. The step of removal of the bolt and reinsertion of the donut should be done very carefully with the donut lubed on the bolt side. It doesn't need to be insanely tight, as I've seen videos where impact wrenches are used to tighten it down during work.

There's a photo of the back side of the gear: https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?4812-Audi-Volkswagen-2-0L-Chain-Drive-P0016-Cam-Crank-correlation-check

[Charles.waite]

I did my job with the bolt hand-tight on the donut spacer. Never felt it was going to slip. But yea the method for holding the gear is an odd one. Why they couldn’t use a woodruff key I don’t know.

[Kolbenringe]

I did my job with the bolt hand-tight on the donut spacer. Never felt it was going to slip. But yea the method for holding the gear is an odd one. Why they couldn’t use a woodruff key I don’t know.
Obsession with reducing length and saving materials and weight to the point they often went too far.

[EP9395]

The crank snub has a flat on the outer circumference. The flat should face up the centerline of the crank. It's a terrible design, btw, and I wonder how many with Stage 1 jobs on their cars ended up with damaged gears. Audi actually revised the holder tool into this elborate thing that costs a lot of money and is difficult to use in tight confines because there appears to have been enough of an issue with the timing gear slipping with the donut. It likely comes from people who were not being gentle or using power tools. The step of removal of the bolt and reinsertion of the donut should be done very carefully with the donut lubed on the bolt side. It doesn't need to be insanely tight, as I've seen videos where impact wrenches are used to tighten it down during work.

There's a photo of the back side of the gear: https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?4812-Audi-Volkswagen-2-0L-Chain-Drive-P0016-Cam-Crank-correlation-check

The crank pulley is on correctly and I made sure I was careful putting in and removing the crank bolt because I was aware there’s nothing really holding the sprockets on. When I put the car back together everything was aligned perfectly that’s why I am so stumped why it would throw a code.

[Kolbenringe]

The crank pulley is on correctly and I made sure I was careful putting in and removing the crank bolt because I was aware there’s nothing really holding the sprockets on. When I put the car back together everything was aligned perfectly that’s why I am so stumped why it would throw a code.

I really think you need to pull the upper timing chain cover off, pull the plug for cylinder number 1 out, put a dial indicator in, and then rotate the engine to verify correlation. You might be off a tooth and not even know it.

[mtroxel]

The crank pulley is on correctly and I made sure I was careful putting in and removing the crank bolt because I was aware there’s nothing really holding the sprockets on. When I put the car back together everything was aligned perfectly that’s why I am so stumped why it would throw a code.

That -20.02° reading is the kind of thing you’d see if the chain went slack. Any drama when you changed the tensioner?

[Snakeman]

124706 bad tensioner a6 2.0t 2014


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[Snakeman]

124708124709124710 maybe I’m lucky,


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[Snakeman]

does the TDC timing mark on the harmonic balancer pulley have to line up with exhaust cams and intake cam? Mine is about 160 degree off


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[mtroxel]

does the TDC timing mark on the harmonic balancer pulley have to line up with exhaust cams and intake cam? Mine is about 160 degree off

Not exactly sure what you mean, but keep in mind that on a 4 cycle, the crank turns twice for every 1 turn of the cam. So maybe its off by 180°?

[Snakeman]

124767124768


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[Snakeman]

Not exactly sure what you mean, but keep in mind that on a 4 cycle, the crank turns twice for every 1 turn of the cam. So maybe its off by 180°?

Ok, thanks


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[Tjtubbs]

Just wondering if this is at all similar to the 3.0t on an s4?

[Theiceman]

Just wondering if this is at all similar to the 3.0t on an s4?

not at all. the 3 is a v6

[ericA6]

I plan on overhauling the timing, water pump and valve cover soon. I have done a lot of reading and would like to thank everyone here for all the information. I have decided to order the timing chain kit and crankshaft seal (as it is not included in the timing kit) from FCP Euro

Timing Chain Kit (https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/vw-timing-chain-tensioner-service-kit-tsi-genuine-audi-vw-523203)

Crankshaft Seal (https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-engine-crankshaft-seal-front-vag-06l103085b)

Additionally I will order the Valve cover kit, water pump kit, timing service tool kit and a gallon of coolant from ECS

Valve Cover Kit (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/valve-cover-gasket-kit/d176501a1kt1/)

Water Pump Kit (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/water-pump-kit/06h121026ddktkt4/)

Timin Service Tool Set (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-parts/timing-service-tool-set-t10355a-t10355/020946sch01a/)

G13 Coolant (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/g13-coolant-1-gallon-378-liters/g013a8j1g/)

I would like to know if the oil chain tensioner locking pin is necessary, or what to use in its place?
Is there anything I'm missing out of all this to complete these overhauls?
Anything to suggest doing while I have it in service position?

[Theiceman]

I plan on working on overhauling the timing, water pump and valve cover soon. I have done a lot of reading and would like to thank everyone here for all the information. I have decided to order the timing chain kit and crankshaft seal (as it is not included in the timing kit) from FCP Euro

Timing Chain Kit (https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/vw-timing-chain-tensioner-service-kit-tsi-genuine-audi-vw-523203)

Crankshaft Seal (https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-engine-crankshaft-seal-front-vag-06l103085b)

Additionally I will order the Valve cover kit, water pump kit, timing service tool kit and a gallon of coolant from ECS

Valve Cover Kit (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/valve-cover-gasket-kit/d176501a1kt1/)

Water Pump Kit (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/water-pump-kit/06h121026ddktkt4/)

Timin Service Tool Set (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-parts/timing-service-tool-set-t10355a-t10355/020946sch01a/)

G13 Coolant (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/g13-coolant-1-gallon-378-liters/g013a8j1g/)

I would like to know if the oil chain tensioner locking pin is necessary, or what to use in its place?
Is there anything I'm missing out of all this to complete these overhauls?
Anything to suggest doing while I have it in service position?


Timing cover already has crank seal pressed in it


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[ericA6]

Timing cover already has crank seal pressed in it


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I believe the timing kit comes with the lower cover included in it, but the part listing did not list the crank seal. If it comes pressed in then I lost $4.60, no big deal.
I will look into the guide rail bolts, I did not notice they were not included in the kit.... good catch!

[Theiceman]

Yeah mine were completely worn out on the pivoting side. You could see the coating gone. My b8.5 used two different sizes and I'm sure yours will be the same

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[mtroxel]

That's a pretty good price on that kit. I'm not sure you need the upper cover but for that price...whatever.

[Kolbenringe]

I plan on overhauling the timing, water pump and valve cover soon. I have done a lot of reading and would like to thank everyone here for all the information. I have decided to order the timing chain kit and crankshaft seal (as it is not included in the timing kit) from FCP Euro

Timing Chain Kit (https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/vw-timing-chain-tensioner-service-kit-tsi-genuine-audi-vw-523203)

Crankshaft Seal (https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-engine-crankshaft-seal-front-vag-06l103085b)

Additionally I will order the Valve cover kit, water pump kit, timing service tool kit and a gallon of coolant from ECS

Valve Cover Kit (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/valve-cover-gasket-kit/d176501a1kt1/)

Water Pump Kit (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/water-pump-kit/06h121026ddktkt4/)

Timin Service Tool Set (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-parts/timing-service-tool-set-t10355a-t10355/020946sch01a/)

G13 Coolant (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/g13-coolant-1-gallon-378-liters/g013a8j1g/)

I would like to know if the oil chain tensioner locking pin is necessary, or what to use in its place?
Is there anything I'm missing out of all this to complete these overhauls?
Anything to suggest doing while I have it in service position?

You don't need to replace the upper cover. Only the cover to head seal. It's definitely an unnecessary expense and the stickers that ID the engine on the cover are more useful than you think. Personally, I don't like the FCP set. It doesn't have the balancer chain, tensioner, and guides. While you're in there, might as well do everything because that chain also stretches.

As for the pump tensioner- some of them come with a j-pin preinstalled, some don't. I would use it so you don't mess the tensioner up, the spring, or the block. Some people use drill bits, but they can be fiddly to remove. I bought a couple extra, they were under a Euro. If in doubt, buy one. It's nice to get the last step of the job in plain and simple without drama.

If you buy a REAL factory Audi timing cover (recommended), the seal is already in place. You would also then need the seal driver, which I have and the installation sucks and IMO, risks dislodging that timing gear. They use this tool at Audi to replace the front seal for Stage 1 Oil Consumption work and I suspect this has been the reason why people have found damaged gears, in addition to the use of impact wrenches for removal and installation of the donut. Furthermore, I recommend using the composite retaining donuts and lubing them on the bolt side so one can carefully tighten the bolt to first get enough clamping pressure on the gear before the assembly turns.

For the waterpump, don't change the belt unless you have the timing case open. There is a high chance of breaking the bolt. Make sure you have extras.

[ericA6]

You don't need to replace the upper cover. Only the cover to head seal. It's definitely an unnecessary expense and the stickers that ID the engine on the cover are more useful than you think. Personally, I don't like the FCP set. It doesn't have the balancer chain, tensioner, and guides. While you're in there, might as well do everything because that chain also stretches.

As for the pump tensioner- some of them come with a j-pin preinstalled, some don't. I would use it so you don't mess the tensioner up, the spring, or the block. Some people use drill bits, but they can be fiddly to remove. I bought a couple extra, they were under a Euro. If in doubt, buy one. It's nice to get the last step of the job in plain and simple without drama.

If you buy a REAL factory Audi timing cover (recommended), the seal is already in place. You would also then need the seal driver, which I have and the installation sucks and IMO, risks dislodging that timing gear. They use this tool at Audi to replace the front seal for Stage 1 Oil Consumption work and I suspect this has been the reason why people have found damaged gears, in addition to the use of impact wrenches for removal and installation of the donut. Furthermore, I recommend using the composite retaining donuts and lubing them on the bolt side so one can carefully tighten the bolt to first get enough clamping pressure on the gear before the assembly turns.

For the waterpump, don't change the belt unless you have the timing case open. There is a high chance of breaking the bolt. Make sure you have extras.

The upper cover comes with the timing kit, I was thinking of reusing my old one and simply replacing the seal as you stated.

I don’t remember seeing a timing kit that includes the balancer chain, tensioner and guides, I’ll look back to see if I’m wrong.

The timing kit comes with a new oil pump tensioner. If I’m replacing it with a new one do I still need the locking pin tool? I don’t think I do, but please correct me if I’m wrong.

The timing kit states it comes with Genuine VW AUDI parts so I’m expecting all to be stamped as so when they arrive. This is the first time I hear about the seal driver tool. Do you have a link for this?

As for the water pump, the kit comes with all necessary hardware, including that bolt.

Thank you kind sir!


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[mtroxel]

The timing kit comes with a new oil pump tensioner. If I’m replacing it with a new one do I still need the locking pin tool? I don’t think I do, but please correct me if I’m wrong.

The oil chain tensioner is a no brainer. It's not very complicated, just a big springy paper clip. If I recall correctly, you just pull it back by hand and put the chain under it.


The timing kit states it comes with Genuine VW AUDI parts so I’m expecting all to be stamped as so when they arrive. This is the first time I hear about the seal driver tool.

The cover in your kit already has the seal in it. You can see it in the pic. And no one talks about a seal driver because everyone's cover comes with the seal installed.

[ericA6]

The oil chain tensioner is a no brainer. It's not very complicated, just a big springy paper clip. If I recall correctly, you just pull it back by hand and put the chain under it.



The cover in your kit already has the seal in it. You can see it in the pic. And no one talks about a seal driver because everyone's cover comes with the seal installed.

That’s great to know! Any additional comments on the balancer chain? Do those components needs to be changed as well?


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[mtroxel]

That’s great to know! Any additional comments on the balancer chain? Do those components needs to be changed as well?

I didn't change mine. The timing chain is under far greater stress. Every time a valve opens and shuts, the valve springs tug the chain one way, then the other. This is why they stretch, and those accel/decel forces end up putting wear on the guides also. You don't have nearly the forces on the balance chain.

[Kolbenringe]

The upper cover comes with the timing kit, I was thinking of reusing my old one and simply replacing the seal as you stated.

I don’t remember seeing a timing kit that includes the balancer chain, tensioner and guides, I’ll look back to see if I’m wrong.

The timing kit comes with a new oil pump tensioner. If I’m replacing it with a new one do I still need the locking pin tool? I don’t think I do, but please correct me if I’m wrong.

The timing kit states it comes with Genuine VW AUDI parts so I’m expecting all to be stamped as so when they arrive. This is the first time I hear about the seal driver tool. Do you have a link for this?

As for the water pump, the kit comes with all necessary hardware, including that bolt.

Thank you kind sir!


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Some people reuse covers. They definitely get a bit tweaked, but if you have some room, you can hammer a spackel knife in there, but it's still tough. If you do it, make sure the mating surfaces are 100% clean, down to bare metal, then also run a metal ruler over the sealing flange to ID where there's slight deformation. The bigger problem is when they get tweaked at the bend.

The locking pin, like I said, usually comes with the new tensioner. If not sure, call the supplier, but obviously if the tensioner has one in place, you don't need to buy one. People typically buy them to remove tensioners. You stick it in so the spring doesn't shoot open as you'll pulling the rail out.

The oil seal installer is T10354. I don't recommend it. I used it on one cover, it sucks and I totally see how this step for the stage 1 work would result in damaged timing gears on occasion, or in my case, a crooked seal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-Crankshaft-Seal-Installer-2-0-TFSI-Turbo-Engine-OEM-Tool-T10354-/322511152559

I saw the water pump link, but it doesn't change what I said: I would recommend doing the water pump maybe even before the timing set is started because if you break the old bolt or the new one, at least it's not miserable to remove when the timing area is opened and you can access the balancer. Usually the bolts break with enough to still stick out. It's just another shitty design from Audi and most people don't touch the belt.

As far as the kit price goes, I find it way too expensive for being incomplete. It doesn't even include a main timing sprocket like many kits of OE quality. I wanted to get away with just changing my timing chain, but Humble Mechanic convinced me to do everything while I was there. I used a mostly Borsehung kit and it was very obvious most parts were identical to the Audi parts, even down to the materials and molding marks and identifiers. My new oil pump tensioner had some issue, so I got a Valeo and that was also pretty identical to the take off and to the Audi. I used a factory Audi tensioner, though in case I ever needed Audi to give me some partial payment on work, at least they'd see an OE tensioner through the window. The kit also had the updated chain.

[Theiceman]

Some people reuse covers. They definitely get a bit tweaked, but if you have some room, you can hammer a spackel knife in there, but it's still tough. If you do it, make sure the mating surfaces are 100% clean, down to bare metal, then also run a metal ruler over the sealing flange to ID where there's slight deformation. The bigger problem is when they get tweaked at the bend.

The locking pin, like I said, usually comes with the new tensioner. If not sure, call the supplier, but obviously if the tensioner has one in place, you don't need to buy one. People typically buy them to remove tensioners. You stick it in so the spring doesn't shoot open as you'll pulling the rail out.

The oil seal installer is T10354. I don't recommend it. I used it on one cover, it sucks and I totally see how this step for the stage 1 work would result in damaged timing gears on occasion, or in my case, a crooked seal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-Crankshaft-Seal-Installer-2-0-TFSI-Turbo-Engine-OEM-Tool-T10354-/322511152559

I saw the water pump link, but it doesn't change what I said: I would recommend doing the water pump maybe even before the timing set is started because if you break the old bolt or the new one, at least it's not miserable to remove when the timing area is opened and you can access the balancer. Usually the bolts break with enough to still stick out. It's just another shitty design from Audi and most people don't touch the belt.

As far as the kit price goes, I find it way too expensive for being incomplete. It doesn't even include a main timing sprocket like many kits of OE quality. I wanted to get away with just changing my timing chain, but Humble Mechanic convinced me to do everything while I was there. I used a mostly Borsehung kit and it was very obvious most parts were identical to the Audi parts, even down to the materials and molding marks and identifiers. My new oil pump tensioner had some issue, so I got a Valeo and that was also pretty identical to the take off and to the Audi. I used a factory Audi tensioner, though in case I ever needed Audi to give me some partial payment on work, at least they'd see an OE tensioner through the window. The kit also had the updated chain.I changed my ballencer chains guides and tensioner. I was doing a complete rebuild though so this is expected.
Although balance shaft failure is not uncommon in these engines,it is not due to chains tensioner or guides.
The choice is yours, I plan on keeping my car for quite a while

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[Charles.waite]

I also did all the chains and guides. Given how much work it was to access the timing chains in the first place, I felt that not replacing everything and saving maybe $300 was going to be a false economy down the line since this car is going to be ours for at least 3-4 more years and after that it’s likely going to my parents so I don’t want to deal with this again.

I used a metal spackle knife to get the cover off and didn’t damage it at all, however I had purchased a brand new cover “just in case” and after seeing the revised oil guides on the new cover I installed the new one. There was much better oil drip routing than the original, the crank sprocket will get much much better oiling with the new cover. I tossed the old one in the trash, though realistically I could have cleaned it up and resold it on eBay to recoup some costs. Doing my oil change the other day, I did see a bit of oil seepage from the bottom sealing edge I believe so it’s likely I might have to go back in and reseal the pan. So a tip I would add is drain the oil before you reseal the cover, with the oil level that close to the lip it’s hard to get a clean surface for the rtv so seal to fully.

[ericA6]

So I decided to not get the FCP Euro kit. I went with the ECS Ultimate Timing Kit (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/ultimate-timing-chain-kit/06h109158hkt/). I also had to purchase Lower Timing Chain Cover (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/timing-chain-cover-lower/06h109210ag/) and the Crank Pully Bolt (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/crank-pulley-bolt-priced-each/wht001760/) as the ECS kit did not include them. I should receive all parts early next week. Now I have to find the time to get it all changed out.

[Kolbenringe]

You also should replace the upper timing cover seal. If it hasn't been on long, then maybe you can get away without replacing, but after a while, they are cooked on. You also need a good sealant, like Reinzosil or something from Dirko. It looks like the kit doesn't include that. Whatever sealant you use, don't use too much, make sure the bead is pretty thin, pay close attention to the bend and putting a bead across it. You also need to put on two smears of sealant at the upper cover where the head meets the cam cover.

I stress again that the bead on the lower cover should not be thick.

[ericA6]

I did order the upper timing chain cover as well along with the vacuum pump seal and another high pressure fuel pump o-ring. I ordered this sealant (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/oil-pan-gasket-sealing-compound-50ml/d176501a1/) for the valve cover and lower timing chain cover. Thanks for the expert tips! All this is great information to have before going into this! Everyone will definitely continue to benefit from this thread!

[Snakeman]

Help! By mistake I rotated oil pump after removing chain from crank sprocket, is position of oil pump important???


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[Charles.waite]

Nope. The oil pump can be linked up at any timing. You’re just fine.

[Snakeman]

Thanks


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[Snakeman]

After many rotations i was able to get to this point, looks like chain is off by one on all of the sprockets but locations of gears looks good, I could try to do one more cycle and see if the marked links will match with gears, can anyone please confirm timing, BIG THANKS 127637127638127639127640


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[mtroxel]

Snakeman, I can't tell about your timing from those pics. Are you about to close this up? Cause all I see is a tensioner that's extended quite a way, and a bunch of old guides and, I assume, the original chain that's obviously stretched. I wouldn't think you'd be asking about timing till you put new parts in.

I see why you think it's off a tooth, I think. And I'm sure that has to do with the stretched chain...and even the worn guides.

[Snakeman]

Yes I’m about to put new parts,


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[Snakeman]

Hope those are better, just to verify timing before replacement
127645127646


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[Charles.waite]

You timing is good. If it had skipped some teeth you’d know it. If it didn’t don’t doubt the factory timing.

[Snakeman]

Thanks, and one more question, where can i buy oil screen (mesh) please don’t tell that i have to buy whole cam bridge


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[Charles.waite]

Hah. Well then I won’t tell you you have to buy the whole thing...

You can’t buy replacement mesh pieces. Many people just pop the mesh out and reinstall the cam bridge without it.

[Theiceman]

think about it, everything is "off" by one coloured link the same way , the car is in perfect time. Imagine if you could move the entire chain over one link without moving any of the sprockets. its only the coloured links that are throwing you off. Remember they are only used to install the cam timing in the right location , after that it means nothing.
I would say 80 % of us rip out the screen , remove the pieces and reinstall the bracket. The other 20% buy a new bracket. the important thing Is finding the piece that broke off, it is usually resting against the channel into the head when you remove the bracket.

[Snakeman]

I found whole broken piece [emoji2]


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[Theiceman]

nice …. how lucky do you feel about Chinese parts in your German car ????

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Camshaft-Bracket-Check-Valve-Oil-Filter-Mesh-For-AUDI-A4-S4-Q5-A6-S6-1-8-2-0T-uH/273756661222?hash=item3fbd2b25e6:g:fNgAAOSwL1Rchg7 8

[Snakeman]

Not so good


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[Snakeman]

Found this http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/TB091917-1.pdf


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[Charles.waite]

nice …. how lucky do you feel about Chinese parts in your German car ????

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Camshaft-Bracket-Check-Valve-Oil-Filter-Mesh-For-AUDI-A4-S4-Q5-A6-S6-1-8-2-0T-uH/273756661222?hash=item3fbd2b25e6:g:fNgAAOSwL1Rchg7 8

Yea I’d prefer to run nothing over that part.

Edit: actually, on second thought there’s probably no larger of a risk of these ones blowing out tha n the OEM ones. Considering mine was popped out at 65k I can’t imagine these are any worse quality....

[Theiceman]

Yea I’d prefer to run nothing over that part.

me too, but I posted the mesh in the main forum as many people seem to look for it.

[ericA6]

I finally received all my parts from ECS. A few thoughts:
1. since I’m doing my timing chain, water pump and valve cover, is there an optimal order to do these jobs? I’m thinking water pump first, valve cover second, timing chain last.
2. I’ve read multiple posts that say no need to lock the cams when taking off the valve cover, is this true? I was under the assumption they had to be locked with the special tools.
3. Should I also replace the fuel pump cam follower since I’ll have the HPFP off?
4. I can’t seem to find the part number for the o-ring/gasket that you find in the camshaft bracket that seals the camshaft adjuster magnet.
5. Is it necessary to change the o-ring for the dipstick tube?


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[02A63.0Q]

I did not lock the cams with the valve cover off. If the chain is still on it won't go anywhere. I did the hpfp cam follower while I had that stuff off but evidently didn't need to. The kind with the bearing is good, the non bearing isn't, but I didn't want to miss the opportunity to do it while that was all off.

[ericA6]

Started taking everything off the front tonight. Actually pretty easy so far, except I broke the driver side lower clip that the condenser clips into. Also found oil coming out of the drivers side intercooler pipe.
128638


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[mtroxel]

Started taking everything off the front tonight. Actually pretty easy so far, except I broke the driver side lower clip that the condenser clips into.

OMG you are so screwed!!! Just kidding.


Also found oil coming out of the drivers side intercooler pipe.

There's always some oil there. I try to drain it every time I change the oil.

[ericA6]

[QUOTE=mtroxel;13733844]OMG you are so screwed!!! Just kidding.

I felt like a complete idiot because it got caught on my shorts! DOH!


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[Kolbenringe]

Audis have had oily intercoolers since forever. Wet PCV systems. If you ever want to get it out without disassembly, you'd have to spray intake cleaners in somewhere after the MAF and drive around and spray again. That will thin out the sludge and the gel-like consistency of a large portion of deposits. There were some who used to pour gasoline innthe IC and swish it around back innthe day.

[Theiceman]

I did an entire build and never used cam locks once

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[ericA6]

I feel like an idiot right now...... I can’t seem to get the fan connector off! I slide the red tab back but then it won’t come off. I’ve pushed and pulled and wiggled. 128836


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****EDIT****
Just got it off. Turns out there was so much dirt in between the connectors it was basically fused together. I took a can of air and blew in around the connector and then took a tiny flathead and worked my way around it. When it finally came off dirt was falling out of the connector. Damn......

[Snakeman]

Is this sensor position ok, i have everything else perfect 129684


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[Snakeman]

129685


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[Snakeman]

129686129687


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[Snakeman]

129688


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[ericA6]

I’m trying to set my timing before I disassemble and replace everything. I’ve rotated and lined up TDC 3 times, but the balancer chain will not line up. Do I need to line up the balancer chain before I replace parts? Or can I leave it as is and line up the chain links on the balancer chain when I put it all back together? If I do it after then I’m assuming I have to rotate the two upper balancing sprockets by hand to get them to line up. 129954129955


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[Theiceman]

Yeah do it all after, they spin easy
Lining them up can be a bit tricky so if you are not sure ask, the drivers side balance shift is on a second sprocket so getting that set up right is crucial. It is not difficult but it is easy to make a mistake

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[ericA6]

I have a set of Craftsman 14-17 open end wrenches and went out and bought a set of Husky 14-17 wrenches... none of which fit the exhaust cam. I am attempting to rotate it slightly to lock it up. I can’t seem to find a tool that fits the notch behind the sprocket. Anyone have any tips?

Also... what size is the balance chain tensioner?


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[mtroxel]

Damn it Eric, I've done that but can't remember. Thought my manual would help but nope. It's right in that range though. I seem to remember it needs to be kind of a thin wrench.

Wouldn't be the first time I've used an American wrench that was close.

https://mtroxel.com/Audi/B8/CamWrench.JPG

[Theiceman]

I have a set of Craftsman 14-17 open end wrenches and went out and bought a set of Husky 14-17 wrenches... none of which fit the exhaust cam. I am attempting to rotate it slightly to lock it up. I can’t seem to find a tool that fits the notch behind the sprocket. Anyone have any tips?

Also... what size is the balance chain tensioner?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87676)Can't remember what size I used but i have a full set of craftsman. It doesn't have to be exact. You are only moving it slightly


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[ericA6]

Can't remember what size I used but i have a full set of craftsman. It doesn't have to be exact. You are only moving it slightly


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Right... problem is both sets are too thick to fit. I’m on my way to Northern Tool to see if I can find a thin set. Also taking the balance chain tensioner with me to fit a socket on it. Biggest size I currently have is a 24mm and it’s too small. Wish me luck! Thank you gentlemen!


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[Snakeman]

I don’t have notches on exhaust cam, i used tool with prongs (found something in my shop) i think you can borrow some tools from your local parts store


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[Snakeman]

129998


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[ericA6]

I found a set of Klutch wrenches at northern tool that we’re thinner. (15mm fit)
130005
Not by much, but it made the difference! Thank god!

Also, balancer chain is a 27mm for anyone else referencing this thread. Now hopefully I can button this all up!


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[ericA6]

Great... upper guid rail for balancing chain does not match what I received from ECS. Of course they’re closed on 4th of July. That stops everything. Oh well... happy 4th everyone!

130008
130009

Same problem EdgeMotors has on their video. I guess this motor was replaced at some point before I purchased the car. I don’t know how to tell.


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[Charles.waite]

How different is it? Post some pics.

[Theiceman]

Right... problem is both sets are too thick to fit. I’m on my way to Northern Tool to see if I can find a thin set. Also taking the balance chain tensioner with me to fit a socket on it. Biggest size I currently have is a 24mm and it’s too small. Wish me luck! Thank you gentlemen!


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i think thats a 27mm

oops sorry i didnt see your update .. yes that upper balance shaft guide throws a lot of people off, i somehow ordered the right one .. but i did order the wrong guide between the two camshafts for the timing chain, its always something.
work doesnt have to stop , you have a lot of cleaning and prep work to do before the install of new parts :)

[ericA6]

work doesnt have to stop , you have a lot of cleaning and prep work to do before the install of new parts :)

I’ve spent more time cleaning than actually wrenching! My oil leaks were horrendous! I was leaking from valve cover seal, vacuum pump, upper and lower timing chain covers. So much grime and oil built up I went through 4 cans of cleaner and degreaser.


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[Theiceman]

Mich like lld porsches, when they stop.leaking oil they are empty

Are you replacing the lower timing cover ?

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[ericA6]

Mich like lld porsches, when they stop.leaking oil they are empty

Are you replacing the lower timing cover ?

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Yes. I’ve already completed water pump replacement, valve cover seal, vacuum pump gasket and HPFP o-ring.


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[Theiceman]

Sounds like you are well on your way, what did you use for sealant on your vc ?


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[ericA6]

Sounds like you are well on your way, what did you use for sealant on your vc ?


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I ordered this sealant (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/oil-pan-gasket-sealing-compound-50ml/d176501a1/) for the valve cover and lower timing chain cover.


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