Depreciation

[ProfessorBlinks]

Hello,

How much do you all pay for your S4s and are you concerned about depreciation?

I purchased my 2012 S4 Prestige Sport-diff CPOed in March 2014. 45k miles $38300. A few thousand down, 72 month loan, $602 monthly. Absolutely loved the car for the past 2 years. No accidents, great condition, etc. Loved the car and took great care of it.

Car currently has 81000 miles, current buyout is $26,800, CPO warranty is up in September of this year. I began to look into trading it in for the next adventure. Quite shocked and appalled at the depreciation. Two non-Audi dealers offered me KBB value for the car which is a laughable $19K.

I went back to the Audi dealership who originally sold me the car (Lagan Audi now Audi Albany). First time (End of March) they offered me 23.5k on the car towards a new A3 premium lease. 15k/36 lease, 3411 down (Fees and tax only), $580 monthly. I told them I would shop around and be back. I went back today (April 11), they said the dealer incentives have changed. They offered me 21500 for the car, 4050 down (Fees, taxes, the rest as what they said was a cap cost reduction once I called them out on the higher down payment), and $621 monthly. I want to walk away from this, but I feel stuck as I feel like I am going to take such a bigger hit on the trade by going to a different dealership.

I just feel very frustrated at Audi right now. I never expected to be put in this position, and having much less of a car under a lease with a huge initial cost and a higher monthly payment just blows my mind. If I knew I was going to be thousands upside down, I would have leased back then and have avoided this problem. I just feel completely taken advantage of.

I don't know if this post even belongs in this forum, but I just feel the need to vent and to see what others have experienced... Anyone else been in this position besides me? Any advice or tips for me?

Thank you and regards.

[Jv218]

Didn't know you could lease a cpo car


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ProfessorBlinks]

Edited... wrote lease instead of purchase at one point.

[mr shickadance]

leasing a CPO is a reletively new thing, and gaining a bit of traction. not the smartest move for the person taking the lease imo.

Thing is, high mileage sports cars depreciate faster than the average cow. Main reason is because for every car you see properly driven, there are 4 more that have been garage queens.

so when there is a market of a low mileage cars out there, your high mileage ride is going to need something more attractive to the market (lower price)

I am practically giving away my S4, but I am hardly getting nibbles. we all got problems.

[joediesel]

How much is an A3 fully loaded?? 580-600 seems like a ton of money for an A3 lease, but I could be wrong. I got my S4 brand new in Aug 2014 (2015 model year), traded in my gti, paid the taxes and fees and put the rest in my pocket, and I pay $540/mo for 12/36

[kcrunch]

Hello,

How much do you all pay for your S4s and are you concerned about depreciation?

I purchased my 2012 S4 Prestige Sport-diff CPOed in March 2014. 45k miles $38300. A few thousand down, 72 month lease, $602 monthly. Absolutely loved the car for the past 2 years. No accidents, great condition, etc. Loved the car and took great care of it.

Car currently has 81000 miles, current buyout is $26,800, CPO warranty is up in September of this year. I began to look into trading it in for the next adventure. Quite shocked and appalled at the depreciation. Two non-Audi dealers offered me KBB value for the car which is a laughable $19K.

I went back to the Audi dealership who originally sold me the car (Lagan Audi now Audi Albany). First time (End of March) they offered me 23.5k on the car towards an A3 premium lease. 15k/36 lease, 3411 down (Fees and tax only), $580 monthly. I told them I would shop around and be back. I went back today (April 11), they said the dealer incentives have changed. They offered me 21500 for the car, 4050 down (Fees, taxes, the rest as what they said was a cap cost reduction once I called them out on the higher down payment), and $621 monthly. I want to walk away from this, but I feel stuck as I feel like I am going to take such a bigger hit on the trade by going to a different dealership.

I just feel very frustrated at Audi right now. I never expected to be put in this position, and having much less of a car under a lease with a huge initial cost and a higher monthly payment just blows my mind. If I knew I was going to be thousands upside down, I would have leased back then and have avoided this problem. I just feel completely taken advantage of.

I don't know if this post even belongs in this forum, but I just feel the need to vent and to see what others have experienced... Anyone else been in this position besides me? Any advice or tips for me?

Thank you and regards.

That sounds like some crazy lease terms - 72 month lease on a 2-3 year old car with 45k miles on it? The residual assuming 10-12k miles a year must be 0, in which case why not just finance it? Or is that what you did, and just mis-typed?

If you financed it, a 38,300 loan, 3k down, 72 month term and $602/mo means you are paying 7% interest on a car loan...which sucks. Especially with a 72 month term like that much of your payments have been towards interest. So that's primarily why you are underwater. Next time around you either need to improve your credit rating, get better financing terms or both. Depreciation is what it is, but I don't think low 20s for a 2012 S4 with 81k on it is too unreasonable. You could always try to sell it yourself and see if you can do better.

[ProfessorBlinks]

The S4 was *purchased* with a 72 month *loan*. You can't lease a CPO used car. I did not lease my S4 two years ago, I purchased it with a 72 month loan. I am trading in the purchased S4. I am now looking at leasing an A3.

I purchased my S4 for 38,300 in March 2014 with 45k miles. Now, after 2 years, I am trying to trade it in and I am finding that it is worth only 19000-21000. The buyout is 26800 and I am upset because I became upside down on the car.

I am also upset because, instead of at 2 years ago when I purchased my used S4, I *could have* leased a brand new S4 for not much more money and not had this problem.

[ProfessorBlinks]

How much is an A3 fully loaded?? 580-600 seems like a ton of money for an A3 lease, but I could be wrong. I got my S4 brand new in Aug 2014 (2015 model year), traded in my gti, paid the taxes and fees and put the rest in my pocket, and I pay $540/mo for 12/36

My research shows that a similar A3 Premium with options would lease out around 480. They appear to be rolling in my "upside-down-ness" from my trade-in into the monthly payment. My total overall cost appears to be about 3-4 thousand dollars more than the lease without my trade-in.

[jlaudio]

i bought a 2010 with 47k on the clock in Feb 2014 for $28,500

i think your first mistake was taking 6 year year loan on a used, high performance sedan. your payments indicate that the interest rate used is crazy high.. most of your payment was paying interest and not principle.

/edit -krunch said it better than i did

[Seattle996]

If you financed it, a 38,300 loan, 3k down, 72 month term and $602/mo means you are paying 7% interest on a car loan...which sucks. Especially with a 72 month term like that much of your payments have been towards interest. So that's primarily why you are underwater

Like kcrunch said, your on a 6 year loan.. after 2 years if you didn't apply any more towards principle, your buyout is what it is. Dealers are never going to give you what you want and I don't think that trade in value is all that bad to be honest. Did you have a look on Manheim.. I'm sure prices are somewhere similar.

You can go for a lease and apply the negative equity into it.. eventually it will burn off quicker than if you were to apply it towards new financing. I could be wrong here..

Good luck.

[ProfessorBlinks]

In retrospect, I wish I did take the 60 month loan. But at that point I would have just leased a new S4. I didn't expect to go under so far with the 72 loan.

39000 and change financed. 2.9% Audi rate. 600 per month.

[mr shickadance]

The S4 was *purchased* with a 72 month *loan*. You can't lease a CPO used car. I did not lease my S4 two years ago, I purchased it with a 72 month loan. I am trading in the purchased S4. I am now looking at leasing an A3.

I purchased my S4 for 38,300 in March 2014 with 45k miles. Now, after 2 years, I am trying to trade it in and I am finding that it is worth only 19000-21000. The buyout is 26800 and I am upset because I became upside down on the car.

I am also upset because, instead of at 2 years ago when I purchased my used S4, I *could have* leased a brand new S4 for not much more money and not had this problem.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-leasing/yes-you-can-lease-a-used-car.html

http://www.lexus.com/lcertified/financing

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/12/used-car-leasing/index.htm

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/cpo/financing.aspx

you can lease a used car, it's not the best idea, but you can do it.

as for yourself, you should have done better research, and you should have made a smarter financial decision. I am shocked to find out you are under-water on a car purchase after 2 years of payments only due to the fact that you shouldn't be unless you put nothing down on the car at all.

assuming a down payment of 20% which would have been $7,660, which would have put your principle down to 30,640, with a residual of 26,800 puts your total monthly payment principle reduction at $160 a month?

i mean i am assuming a lot but did you really not expect to be underwater paying ~$160 a month?

[ProfessorBlinks]

Year to date I have paid $201 interest and $1608 principal. Where are you getting $160?

[13jfp]

Sounds like you overpaid and definitely took out too long of a loan. For the miles u put on a car u should just lease. If u cant swing 800 or so per month then u need to look at an A3 or S3. Sorry to say u just made a poor purchase. Learn from it and move on. You could just keep the S4 and drive it until its ready for the junk yard. Your upside down now anyway. Ur gonna have to pay that price one way or another. Realistically if u finance a car here is a good rule of thumb. Take the price of the car and divide by the miles left on the odometer to get to 100,000. That $/mile is what u need to put on principal for each mile u drive. If u cant do that then u cant afford the car in the first place. Good luck.

[mavz]

not exactly on topic for your post but I went to Lagan to try to get a S4 and had a terrible experience. I do enjoy being lied to my face especially when I stated I had proof minutes earlier. Good times were had [:p]

[roadawg]

I've stopped flipping cars for this reason. You will lose unless you drive an Evo, air cooled, 911 or other car that has unusually high resale. Depreciation always cracks me up, sometimes I look around at car values and it does not match what my initial thought of what the car is worth.

In general german sport sedans are a losing proposition resale wise.

I see the value of certain cars and just laugh. For example, a 2013 freaking WRX is worth about what my car is worth. Go take both cars for an honest drive and tell me with a straight face my car isn't worth 10K more. For that reason alone I won't sell it. There is no way in hell I'd trade it in or sell it for $25K, its a joke. Plus I like it a lot so I don't really care : )

I was very close to buying a WRX Sti just so I wouldn't lose much money on it, but I'd rather get something I like and eat the cost.

[BDP]

Considering the S4 is the 5th VAG car I've owned since 2003, I knew resale was a moot point in my decision to buy it. I bought my 2013 Subaru STI for I want to say 36k new out the door and traded it in for 32k a year later...pretty amazing if you ask me.

You'll never see that kind of resale on an Audi.

[14S4GWM]

Considering the S4 is the 5th VAG car I've owned since 2003, I knew resale was a moot point in my decision to buy it. I bought my 2013 Subaru STI for I want to say 36k new out the door and traded it in for 32k a year later...pretty amazing if you ask me.

You'll never see that kind of resale on an Audi.

I bought an 09 WRX new for 26k and traded it 5.5 yrs later and got 16k for it on the Audi at an Audi dealer. It didn't even make it to auction, lot boy bought it and called me a lot asking questions. They hold their value well and that was a selling point for me when I bought it.

[BDP]

I bought an 09 WRX new for 26k and traded it 5.5 yrs later and got 16k for it on the Audi at an Audi dealer. It didn't even make it to auction, lot boy bought it and called me a lot asking questions. They hold their value well and that was a selling point for me when I bought it.

Yeah it's pretty amazing at how much they hold their value. I had a 5spd World Rally Blue Forester XT Sport also that I sold for maybe 1k less then what I bought it for over a year earlier also. If you want resale buy a Subaru or Toyota...not an Audi or any luxury brand really. The red flags should go off on depreciation when you buy a car that stickers for nearly 60k, for nearly mid 30's two years later.

I'm fully prepared to eat some depreciation when it comes time to sell mine...hopefully I can keep it long enough to not worry about it.

Oh and yes...I'm a car whore....lol.

[GTItoS4]

OP should just keep paying down the S4 for a another year or two. Why the need to get out? The mileage? If it's been reliable, it will likely continue. There's no way I'd trade down to an A3. F that. They are terrible.

[timzcat]

The real problem is 72 month loan, it's generating negative equity. 72 month loans in most cases don't keep value in line with remaining balance.
I'd imagine he's concerned with the mileage which is just making the problem worse because it accelerating the depreciation.

I'm considering selling my '15 S4 with 3000 miles on it. haha. I have an itch for a used R8.

[DannyDeez]

Hello,

How much do you all pay for your S4s and are you concerned about depreciation?

I purchased my 2012 S4 Prestige Sport-diff CPOed in March 2014. 45k miles $38300. A few thousand down, 72 month loan, $602 monthly. Absolutely loved the car for the past 2 years. No accidents, great condition, etc. Loved the car and took great care of it.

Car currently has 81000 miles, current buyout is $26,800, CPO warranty is up in September of this year. I began to look into trading it in for the next adventure. Quite shocked and appalled at the depreciation. Two non-Audi dealers offered me KBB value for the car which is a laughable $19K.

I went back to the Audi dealership who originally sold me the car (Lagan Audi now Audi Albany). First time (End of March) they offered me 23.5k on the car towards a new A3 premium lease. 15k/36 lease, 3411 down (Fees and tax only), $580 monthly. I told them I would shop around and be back. I went back today (April 11), they said the dealer incentives have changed. They offered me 21500 for the car, 4050 down (Fees, taxes, the rest as what they said was a cap cost reduction once I called them out on the higher down payment), and $621 monthly. I want to walk away from this, but I feel stuck as I feel like I am going to take such a bigger hit on the trade by going to a different dealership.

I just feel very frustrated at Audi right now. I never expected to be put in this position, and having much less of a car under a lease with a huge initial cost and a higher monthly payment just blows my mind. If I knew I was going to be thousands upside down, I would have leased back then and have avoided this problem. I just feel completely taken advantage of.

I don't know if this post even belongs in this forum, but I just feel the need to vent and to see what others have experienced... Anyone else been in this position besides me? Any advice or tips for me?

Thank you and regards.

Ok, everyone seems to be a bit harsh here, so I'm going to be helpful. I really don't think you're in that bad of shape. First off, screw the dealer trade in offers. Dealers rip you off all the time anyway. Dont waste anymore of your time.

Your KBB for private sale is over $26k. I can't get a real number without knowing color and transmission, also if you have B&O or not, but its still over $26k regardless. Your best bet is to sell the car privately so you won't have to take that huge hit. Break even if you have to, but it'll get you out of the car without costing you thousands.

Also, how is your CPO up in this september on a 2012 model year car? Even if the car was built in 2011, it still wouldn't end until next year. You might be confused about how it works, the person I got my car from was as well. The CPO warranty is good for 6 years from the in service date. So as long as you don't go over the mileage, you have longer on the CPO than you think.

For reference, I bought my 2012 S4 Prestige, CPO until Dec 30th 2017, with 52k miles, 6 speed man, sports diff, B&O a couple months ago for $32k. The KBB on it was over $33k. Even with your higher mileage you should be able to at least get your buyout amount.

[SportVier]

I see the value of certain cars and just laugh. For example, a 2013 freaking WRX is worth about what my car is worth. Go take both cars for an honest drive and tell me with a straight face my car isn't worth 10K more.

On a used car that is out of warranty or will be soon, buyers will be factoring in the cost of maintaining the car. That will really close the gap between a used Subaru and an Audi. I've owned two Subaru's past 100k and they needed nothing outside regular maintenance, which was cheap. I owned one Audi past 100k and it was a steadily intensifying black hole after 70k.

[SportVier]

Your best bet is to sell the car privately so you won't have to take that huge hit. Break even if you have to, but it'll get you out of the car without costing you thousands.

This [up]

[ProfessorBlinks]

Ok, everyone seems to be a bit harsh here, so I'm going to be helpful. I really don't think you're in that bad of shape. First off, screw the dealer trade in offers. Dealers rip you off all the time anyway. Dont waste anymore of your time.

Your KBB for private sale is over $26k. I can't get a real number without knowing color and transmission, also if you have B&O or not, but its still over $26k regardless. Your best bet is to sell the car privately so you won't have to take that huge hit. Break even if you have to, but it'll get you out of the car without costing you thousands.

Also, how is your CPO up in this september on a 2012 model year car? Even if the car was built in 2011, it still wouldn't end until next year. You might be confused about how it works, the person I got my car from was as well. The CPO warranty is good for 6 years from the in service date. So as long as you don't go over the mileage, you have longer on the CPO than you think.

For reference, I bought my 2012 S4 Prestige, CPO until Dec 30th 2017, with 52k miles, 6 speed man, sports diff, B&O a couple months ago for $32k. The KBB on it was over $33k. Even with your higher mileage you should be able to at least get your buyout amount.

Thank you for your helpful reply. 6MT, white, B+O/Sport Diff/Carbon Fiber Inlay.

CPO is described as starting at the end of the manufacture warranty and extending it 50k or 2 years. Car came out of warranty September 2014 when the dealer did routine maintenance on it and the computers detected that it was over 50k miles. I verified it through the service guy, he showed me the computer program which shows when the warranty is calculated to be up.

It looks like you have purchased a similar car to what I have now, with the exception of less miles.

After sitting around, stewing, and doing a bunch of math I have figured out the following. I had to fish through allot of math but it looks like Audi Albany is giving me the trade-in for 21530 and selling me the A3 at around MSRP. They piss me off having to make me do this math in the first place instead of giving me the actual numbers outright. The total cost of the 3 year lease, including my trade-in/including tax/not including fees, is about 24577.

Tomorrow I am going to go back to the Subaru dealership. If they can give me the 19K KBB value for the trade-in, and a base WRX around MSRP, my comparable total cost of the 3 year lease, including my trade-in/including tax/not including fees, would be about 21596. I would get 3124 more trading into Audi, but they have really turned me off with their shady practices and I really don't feel enthusiastic about paying a total of 2981 more overall to get into a base A3 vs a WRX.

[ProfessorBlinks]

On a used car that is out of warranty or will be soon, buyers will be factoring in the cost of maintaining the car. That will really close the gap between a used Subaru and an Audi. I've owned two Subaru's past 100k and they needed nothing outside regular maintenance, which was cheap. I owned one Audi past 100k and it was a steadily intensifying black hole after 70k.

The Audi *terrifies* me owning it past the warranty. The thermostat went a month or two ago, it would have been impossible for me to fix, and it would have been a $600 job via the dealer if it wasn't covered under warranty.

[DannyDeez]

Thank you for your helpful reply. 6MT, white, B+O/Sport Diff/Carbon Fiber Inlay.

CPO is described as starting at the end of the manufacture warranty and extending it 50k or 2 years. Car came out of warranty September 2014 when the dealer did routine maintenance on it and the computers detected that it was over 50k miles. I verified it through the service guy, he showed me the computer program which shows when the warranty is calculated to be up.

It looks like you have purchased a similar car to what I have now, with the exception of less miles.

After sitting around, stewing, and doing a bunch of math I have figured out the following. I had to fish through allot of math but it looks like Audi Albany is giving me the trade-in for 21530 and selling me the A3 at around MSRP. They piss me off having to make me do this math in the first place instead of giving me the actual numbers outright. The total cost of the 3 year lease, including my trade-in/including tax/not including fees, is about 24577.

Tomorrow I am going to go back to the Subaru dealership. If they can give me the 19K KBB value for the trade-in, and a base WRX around MSRP, my comparable total cost of the 3 year lease, including my trade-in/including tax/not including fees, would be about 21596. I would get 3124 more trading into Audi, but they have really turned me off with their shady practices and I really don't feel enthusiastic about paying a total of 2981 more overall to get into a base A3 vs a WRX.

You're welcome. Ok, so the original warranty expired early due to mileage. That still should not change the CPO warranty on the car. I would call Audi of America and verify.

A CPO car is 6 years or 100k miles from the vehicles first in service date. You can get this date by calling AoA. They're 24hrs if you want to call now. Ive spent quite some time on the phone with them over the years and most recently when inquiring about the car I just purchased.

Owning an Audi outside of warranty is terrifying for me too. Mostly because I've done it twice, and both times I paid over $9k for repairs. Call Audi of America and verify your CPO warranty.

[Vanimal]

I have been shopping for possibly trading my 2010 B8 S5 for a B8 S4. Going back to a 4 door would be nice, as well as the 3.0T motor. My buyout is only about $19k. When i traded my Hummer H3 in for my 2010 B8 S5, i got them to give me NADA trade value which is usually more than KBB, have you tried asking them about NADA value? KBB is a bit harsh. That is how i ended up with my S5 with their gracious trade in, been loving it since.

[Vanimal]

You're welcome. Ok, so the original warranty expired early due to mileage. That still should not change the CPO warranty on the car. I would call Audi of America and verify.

A CPO car is 6 years or 100k miles from the vehicles first in service date. You can get this date by calling AoA. They're 24hrs if you want to call now. Ive spent quite some time on the phone with them over the years and most recently when inquiring about the car I just purchased.

Owning an Audi outside of warranty is terrifying for me too. Mostly because I've done it twice, and both times I paid over $9k for repairs. Call Audi of America and verify your CPO warranty.

That last sentence is what is stopping me from switching to my B8 S5 coupe, to a B8 S4 in the price range i am looking at. My S5 has been a rock solid car, not a single problem cost wise besides oil changes. With the "possible" DSG problems and no warranty could be a nightmare.

[Vanimal]

OP should just keep paying down the S4 for a another year or two. Why the need to get out? The mileage? If it's been reliable, it will likely continue. There's no way I'd trade down to an A3. F that. They are terrible.

+1 on that, honestly id rather have the used S4 over that new A4 hands down. S4 will be a great looking timeless car for years to come, on top of all the things you get in the S model.

PS: Sorry couldn't group my quotes i am on mobile [headbang]

[GRUMPY-S4]

Subaru's hold their value even more after the Tsunami hurt their production numbers. In 2012 I wanted an STI and could not find one without waiting months. Add to that the fact that the dealers will only sell for MSRP... No discounts at all... That tells you why they hold their value. I got my 2015 B8.5 for 12K under MSRP (new car).

[KRp220]

no one here (unless i missed it) has pointed out how many miles you've driven over 2 years. you've added 36,000 miles over 2 years, whcih is 18k a year. that is a) more than the average of 12k and b) going to depreciate your car faster. had you taken a 60 month term, your payments would have been closer to keeping up with the depreciation. it was just a bad combo

regarding your comment about "shoulda leased it" you would have been a similiar situation being over your miles at 18k a year

with that being said, i'd sell it privately (unless there is a tax benefit to trade?) or just keep it another year and get a little farther down the depreciation curve

[GRUMPY-S4]

To the OP... Never ever go off payment amount when buying a car. I always ask for sale price. Residual value and trade-in allowance. Then ask for payment options.

That way you can do the numbers and see what they are truly doing

[The Fat Kid]

They offered me 21500 for the car, 4050 down (Fees, taxes, the rest as what they said was a cap cost reduction once I called them out on the higher down payment), and $621 monthly.

Audis are generally bad for leasing, but your A3 deal is TERRIBLE! Look at BMWs if you want to lease; guys were getting F80 M3s for under $700/month.

[MrFunk]

no one here (unless i missed it) has pointed out how many miles you've driven over 2 years. you've added 36,000 miles over 2 years, whcih is 18k a year. that is a) more than the average of 12k and b) going to depreciate your car faster. had you taken a 60 month term, your payments would have been closer to keeping up with the depreciation. it was just a bad combo

regarding your comment about "shoulda leased it" you would have been a similiar situation being over your miles at 18k a year

with that being said, i'd sell it privately (unless there is a tax benefit to trade?) or just keep it another year and get a little farther down the depreciation curve

Exactly this... You are looking to sell it before you've paid much down however you've put on more than average miles...

If you want to get value out of the car then pay it off and enjoy a few years of no payments motoring. That should balance you out a bit.
But remember - you are getting a lot of value out of the car given the miles you put on it. It's only fair that it depreciates at a higher rate. For comparison my 12 has 34k miles - you are more than double the miles. Increase your payments if you want also... I did that and paid off quicker which ultimately reduces your effective interest rate.
Cars are not investments though.

BTW - why go from an S4 you love to an A3?? Yikes!

[Senseless]

It's the mileage you're doing. Does anyone know the depreciation per mile for this car? I know the govt allows 55¢ per mile for write-off, but that includes insurance and gas.

[jimrobbington]

This is why you don't buy new cars if you are worried about this sorry of thing. Cars are the worst investment you can make, unless you are Jay Leno. I bought a 2 year old S4 for about -$0.74 per mile...

I still technically couldn't afford it if it makes you feel any better. Lol

[jimrobbington]

Audis are generally bad for leasing, but your A3 deal is TERRIBLE! Look at BMWs if you want to lease; guys were getting F80 M3s for under $700/month.
Also this. You can get a brand spanking new 335 for $500/month ish. They even build to order.

[jimrobbington]

It's the mileage you're doing. Does anyone know the depreciation per mile for this car? I know the govt allows 55¢ per mile for write-off, but that includes insurance and gas.
Mine was about -$0.74 per mile when I purchased.

[shoe3k]

The S4 was *purchased* with a 72 month *loan*. You can't lease a CPO used car. I did not lease my S4 two years ago, I purchased it with a 72 month loan. I am trading in the purchased S4. I am now looking at leasing an A3.

I purchased my S4 for 38,300 in March 2014 with 45k miles. Now, after 2 years, I am trying to trade it in and I am finding that it is worth only 19000-21000. The buyout is 26800 and I am upset because I became upside down on the car.

I am also upset because, instead of at 2 years ago when I purchased my used S4, I *could have* leased a brand new S4 for not much more money and not had this problem.


It is hard to say if you should keep your car. It looks like you drive 18k miles a year and once it is past 60k miles it will take another hit on depreciation. That 72/mths. financing will keep you under forever unless you start adding more towards the principal per month. This is only going to get worse the longer you wait, so you should decide if taking a financial hit is worth it. I would compare the pro/cons of each car when it comes to cost, such as:

1. insurance
2. gas
3. tires
4. brakes

I'm sure those items would eventually make you break even.

[Vanimal]

Strong chance of you coming back making a thread that you miss your S4 & should have kept it enjoying until while you paid it off. ;)

There's a guy at my gym who has a S3 I park near. It's a pretty tiny car, it's about the size of my B5 S4 just modernized. I was interested in the new S3's until I seen one in person, and that went out the window.

I vote keep the S4 another year and or two & pay it down. Like others mentioned you can add to your monthly payment. And in my eyes it's still a better car and situation compared to leasing a A3 for $700 per month. Aw hell no, you'll lose so much awesome car appeal which makes the monthly car payment not as harsh when you receive a stare or compliment :) Or smile when you drive it.


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[circle]

I bought the car with a 1.9% 48 month lien. It's stupid cheap.

[mr shickadance]

Year to date I have paid $201 interest and $1608 principal. Where are you getting $160?

by your math, your monthly payment was $75.38 and you are surprised you are underwater on your car?

you need to learn more about finances, and how loans work before your next big purchase.

[mr shickadance]

Ok, everyone seems to be a bit harsh here, so I'm going to be helpful. I really don't think you're in that bad of shape. First off, screw the dealer trade in offers. Dealers rip you off all the time anyway. Dont waste anymore of your time.

Your KBB for private sale is over $26k. I can't get a real number without knowing color and transmission, also if you have B&O or not, but its still over $26k regardless. Your best bet is to sell the car privately so you won't have to take that huge hit. Break even if you have to, but it'll get you out of the car without costing you thousands.

Also, how is your CPO up in this september on a 2012 model year car? Even if the car was built in 2011, it still wouldn't end until next year. You might be confused about how it works, the person I got my car from was as well. The CPO warranty is good for 6 years from the in service date. So as long as you don't go over the mileage, you have longer on the CPO than you think.

For reference, I bought my 2012 S4 Prestige, CPO until Dec 30th 2017, with 52k miles, 6 speed man, sports diff, B&O a couple months ago for $32k. The KBB on it was over $33k. Even with your higher mileage you should be able to at least get your buyout amount.

lol go ahead, sell OP's car, if you get $26k for it I will eat my hat. KBB has my car valued at $22k, I have it listed for $21k (clean title, all service records, AND a warranty for 125k or 2019) i can barely find a buyer. high mileage sports cars, they are a tough sell.

and this guy owes too! this is going to complicate the process and limit your audience because only a handful of buyers out there will actually look at a car that still owes $26k left on it.

[cam0719]

by your math, your monthly payment was $75.38 and you are surprised you are underwater on your car?

you need to learn more about finances, and how loans work before your next big purchase.

Or maybe you need to learn how to read. He said year to date. $1809/3 month = $603

[mr shickadance]

Fair point, I misread even still, if you take an esitmated monthly payment at 603, spread over the course of his ownership (24 months) you get ~$14k payment

it suggests that OP had a miniscule down payment, or no down payment at all when he signed the note. with no down payment you are basically underwater from the get-go.

[Vanimal]

Any specific reason you want to trade in in and essentially come out of pocket even more money for a newer A3? Which most of us would agree would be a downgrade.

I get the new adventure part, but most of us here would want to "upgrade" I see the A3 as a downgrade, especially if you will lose money. Your S4 will go another 80k, & you know it's taken care of and how it's been treated.


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[Hellahashtags]

If it makes you feel any better, any late model European sedan with a $50K+ new MSRP is going to depreciate just as hard as yours did. Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Porsche, etc.


Hello,

How much do you all pay for your S4s and are you concerned about depreciation?

I purchased my 2012 S4 Prestige Sport-diff CPOed in March 2014. 45k miles $38300. A few thousand down, 72 month loan, $602 monthly. Absolutely loved the car for the past 2 years. No accidents, great condition, etc. Loved the car and took great care of it.

Car currently has 81000 miles, current buyout is $26,800, CPO warranty is up in September of this year. I began to look into trading it in for the next adventure. Quite shocked and appalled at the depreciation. Two non-Audi dealers offered me KBB value for the car which is a laughable $19K.

I went back to the Audi dealership who originally sold me the car (Lagan Audi now Audi Albany). First time (End of March) they offered me 23.5k on the car towards a new A3 premium lease. 15k/36 lease, 3411 down (Fees and tax only), $580 monthly. I told them I would shop around and be back. I went back today (April 11), they said the dealer incentives have changed. They offered me 21500 for the car, 4050 down (Fees, taxes, the rest as what they said was a cap cost reduction once I called them out on the higher down payment), and $621 monthly. I want to walk away from this, but I feel stuck as I feel like I am going to take such a bigger hit on the trade by going to a different dealership.

I just feel very frustrated at Audi right now. I never expected to be put in this position, and having much less of a car under a lease with a huge initial cost and a higher monthly payment just blows my mind. If I knew I was going to be thousands upside down, I would have leased back then and have avoided this problem. I just feel completely taken advantage of.

I don't know if this post even belongs in this forum, but I just feel the need to vent and to see what others have experienced... Anyone else been in this position besides me? Any advice or tips for me?

Thank you and regards.

[mr shickadance]

Any specific reason you want to trade in in and essentially come out of pocket even more money for a newer A3? Which most of us would agree would be a downgrade.

I get the new adventure part, but most of us here would want to "upgrade" I see the A3 as a downgrade, especially if you will lose money. Your S4 will go another 80k, & you know it's taken care of and how it's been treated.


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what will be saddest part of all this, is that in 2 years when OP looks at another car to buy/lease/roll he will post up another thread saying

"i can't believe that my negative equity rolled into another car and the depreciation is causing me to be underwater on this car. anyways, thinking about rolling over this negative equity into yet another car."

[sangaroo]

1+ keeping S4.

OP made a financial mistake. Don't repeat it.

[cam0719]

OP you paid $38,300 and if you get the $23,500 it means you paid $14,800 in depreciation for driving 36k miles.

Now, I think the A3 lease is ironically going to cost you even more to drive 36k miles if you look at the numbers. Of course that's because the A3 is a new car which depreciates even faster. But this could have been worse - you could have bought a new S4 back in 2014 and it would have probably depreciated closer to $20k vs $14800.

If you want a nice car without so much depreciation you need to look at say Infiniti or Acura. But it won't be an Audi.

[SportVier]

Your S4 will go another 80k, & you know it's taken care of and how it's been treated.

But the question is... what will it cost him to get through that next 80k?

[Vanimal]

I remember when I traded my 2007 Hunmer H3 I bought with 44k for for my 2010 B8. Bought the Hummer for $17,500, had it for 5 years, paid off and traded it in with 139k. After a few calls back the dealer ended up giving me 10,500 for trade in which was spot on "NADA" not lower KBB.

They originally offered like $6,500 lol, of course I walked. That's how I ended up with B8. I'd say I got my money's worth with that Hummer H3, was a nice little DD.

A week later they had it in Autotrader for like $12,900 [emoji23]. Hustlers....


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[bknewtype]

didn't read the comments, but wtf you are trading in your s4 as a dp on a lease for an a3? PLUS u have to pay????

my friend just leased a a3. 2.0t, Quattro, navi, etc. sticker is 40k. 322 a month w/ 3k taxes, fees, first month included plus audicare. 36 month lease.

[Vanimal]

didn't read the comments, but wtf you are trading in your s4 as a dp on a lease for an a3? PLUS u have to pay????

my friend just leased a a3. 2.0t, Quattro, navi, etc. sticker is 40k. 322 a month w/ 3k taxes, fees, first month included plus audicare. 36 month lease.

That's what I said, downgrade all around. Anyway you put it. Scared of no warranty, just pray to the B8 gods to have mercy on you.

Most of us B8 owners have had good luck in all models from A to S models . Hands down the B8 is the most refined less troublesome S4 to date compared to the B5,B6,B7.


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[bknewtype]

That's what I said, downgrade all around. Anyway you put it. Scared of no warranty, just pray to the B8 gods to have mercy on you.

Most of us B8 owners have had good luck in all models from A to S models . Hands down the B8 is the most refined less troublesome S4 to date compared to the B5,B6,B7.


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my car has been pretty reliable ( other than back up camera issues and aftermarket issues ). im at 55k miles.. gonna drive this thing till it explodes

my buddy just got a b9 a4 last Saturday, and is already having some issues.

its not even about the downgrade. the fact that hes getting a crazy ass deal ( in a bad way ) that requires him to trade in his s4, PLUS pay out the arse for that basic A3. unless I am reading it wrong.

[raudiace4]

Keep the S4.

[Vanimal]

S4, S4,S4!

[whiped]

I would avoid the A3/S3 after driving the S4 as you probably won't be happy with it.

I was just in the market for a new car, I liked the styling of the S3 more than the S4 but, the lack of power delivery(specifically the lag) turned me off.

Bought a CPO 2013 S4 with a STaSIS tune and 14k miles on it instead.

3 weeks later, 2000 miles and a speeding ticket I have no regrets [drive]

[DannyDeez]

lol go ahead, sell OP's car, if you get $26k for it I will eat my hat. KBB has my car valued at $22k, I have it listed for $21k (clean title, all service records, AND a warranty for 125k or 2019) i can barely find a buyer. high mileage sports cars, they are a tough sell.

and this guy owes too! this is going to complicate the process and limit your audience because only a handful of buyers out there will actually look at a car that still owes $26k left on it.

Well I wouldn't want you to eat your hat, it would be too hard to digest [:)]. $26k isn't bad imo. I just paid $32k like 2 months ago. $21k is a good price for yours, hopefully it'll sell soon.

[Senseless]

Mine was about -$0.74 per mile when I purchased.

First year with average 15K mileage would be $11,000 depreciation. That's an eye opener. I'll probably rent a car with unlimited mileage for the next road trip.

[jimrobbington]

First year with average 15K mileage would be $11,000 depreciation. That's an eye opener. I'll probably rent a car with unlimited mileage for the next road trip.
Yup, just under 27k miles on it, 20k off original sticker price.

[mecg]

That's what I said, downgrade all around. Anyway you put it. Scared of no warranty, just pray to the B8 gods to have mercy on you.

Most of us B8 owners have had good luck in all models from A to S models . Hands down the B8 is the most refined less troublesome S4 to date compared to the B5,B6,B7.

Consumer Reports agrees with you - B8 has really improved, starting with MY 2012:

https://www.dirigosoftware.com/images/AudiA4Reliability.jpg

[agorich]

OP: There will always be another car out there that you rrrreeeeaaaallllyyyy want to drive. Just look at what is more important to you. The car or the financial aspect of it? Everything else will play off either or. If you're happy about the car, you probably won't care about the $. If you're not happy about the $, you'll probably not be happy with the car. This goes for anything though. Homes, vacations, going out to eat....heck, it happens to me when i'm paying for gas in another part of town and the prices are higher than near my house. Then I hate the gas and feel like my MPG is not as good as it normally is.

This insight brought to you by my brother, whom taught me that if you don't like the golf club when you're looking down at it about to swing....you're probably not going to hit the ball too well. haha. silly...but it works for me.

[ProfessorBlinks]

Couldn't make anything work with Audi even on the A3 so I walked away from them. Ended up signing a lease today with Subaru. Base WRX, 67% residual, .002 MF (kinda high but it is what it is). Subaru gave me 19.5 for the S4. Financed the upside down-ness with the lease and included the tax with the monthly payment. 0 down, 615 a month, 36 months 15k miles.

Did some napkin math. To have had purchased my S4 and have 0 equity right now, I would have had to be making 730 a month payment. Easily into brand-new-s4-lease territory.

I will miss my Audi,I really will. But I did like the WRX and I look forward to having a car I don't have to worry about getting dirty!

[to stir the pot] after the WRX lease is up, I'll be looking at a Tesla 3!!!!!!

[Seattle996]

This insight brought to you by my brother, whom taught me that if you don't like the golf club when you're looking down at it about to swing....you're probably not going to hit the ball too well. haha. silly...but it works for me.

haha.. this is funny ^^

The problem for the OP is that if he is anything like me, he has made up his mind and wants a new car. He will find a reason as to why it makes sense to get a new car. Regardless of what you do, make sure you do a full test drive with either the S3 or WRX or whatever... Get some real driving time behind them.. you may just end up staying in your car until you find something for sale that seriously rocks your world.

I'm all for it. Sell the car and get something else. But make sure you test drive buddy.. and do so without the salesman so you really put your foot on it.

Good luck.

[Seattle996]

Woops.. spoke too soon and I was right. lol.. your mind was made up and you bought a car. Good luck with it. My wife had a WRX.. great little car. Not going to be solid built like a german car, but it is fun nevertheless.. Enjoy!

[mr shickadance]

Couldn't make anything work with Audi even on the A3 so I walked away from them. Ended up signing a lease today with Subaru. Base WRX, 67% residual, .002 MF (kinda high but it is what it is). Subaru gave me 19.5 for the S4. Financed the upside down-ness with the lease and included the tax with the monthly payment. 0 down, 615 a month, 36 months 15k miles.

Did some napkin math. To have had purchased my S4 and have 0 equity right now, I would have had to be making 730 a month payment. Easily into brand-new-s4-lease territory.

I will miss my Audi,I really will. But I did like the WRX and I look forward to having a car I don't have to worry about getting dirty!

[to stir the pot] after the WRX lease is up, I'll be looking at a Tesla 3!!!!!!

[headbang] you are a car salesman's wet dream....

[14S4GWM]

^ You got that right, the salesman is eating some nice expensive steaks tonight.

[DannyDeez]

[headbang] you are a car salesman's wet dream....


^ You got that right, the salesman is eating some nice expensive steaks tonight.

WTF just happened. I feel like we got trolled. This guy just majorly downgraded from an S4 to a BASE WRX and he's paying more in monthly payments.. How does that even happen?!

[14S4GWM]

WTF just happened. I feel like we got trolled. This guy just majorly downgraded from an S4 to a BASE WRX and he's paying more in monthly payments.. How does that even happen?!

Not sure but I knew this thread was a good fail from the first post.

[Senseless]

Consumer Reports agrees with you - B8 has really improved, starting with MY 2012:

https://www.dirigosoftware.com/images/AudiA4Reliability.jpg

Surprisingly, the supposed auto transmission nightmare appears to be reliable across the board.

[ProfessorBlinks]

WTF just happened. I feel like we got trolled. This guy just majorly downgraded from an S4 to a BASE WRX and he's paying more in monthly payments.. How does that even happen?!

What would be a better option? Keep driving the current S4 until I am not upside-down anymore. Drive it past its soon-to-be expired warranty HOPING that it doesn't break anything. It just had a thermostat go which would have cost me a substantial chunk out of pocket.

Should I have traded in the S4 for a new S4. Roll 8K in negative equity into another luxury car? Have a good solid 1,000 per month payment for a mid range Audi???

Should I have put it on Autotrader? A reply earlier said he had a similar car listed for 21K and he is getting no interested buyers.

I signed an average lease which is costing me 12.5K over 3 years plus tax and fees. And I traded a car for 19.5K that wont auction for more than 21. I rolled 200 a month of negative equity into my payments. The salesman didn't make THAT much money off of me....

Really guys? Who has a better option that what I did? [rolleyes] I especially look forward to the "much better" recommendations from mr shickadance, DannyDeez, and 14S4GWM.

[ProfessorBlinks]

MSRP Lease WRX Base
Lease Principal
$27,897.00 MSRP (Includes foglights and mats, you cant find a 0-option WRX anywhere nearby)
67% Residual %
$18,690.99 Residual Value
0.002 Money-Factor
36/15 Terms
$348.92 Monthly Calculated

Tax Principal
$1,565.00 Overall Tax
$43.47 Monthly Tax

Trade-In
$26,843.95 S4 Buyout
$19,475.00 S4 Trade-In
$7,368.95 Upside Down

Finance Interest Rate
$36,830.95 Net Cap Cost
$18,690.99 Residual
$111.04 Monthly Finance Cost

Total Payment
$255.72 Principal
$43.47 Tax
$204.69 Upside-Down
$111.04 Finance Cost
$614.93 Total Payment

[SportVier]

Surprisingly, the supposed auto transmission nightmare appears to be reliable across the board.

Well, the A4 does not have the nightmare DCT. It also does not have our extra-special high-performance thermostats or water pumps. I think you'd see a lot more black if this were for the S4.

[GPGP]

Wow! $200 a month on negative equity? That's gonna be tough to not beat yourself up over in three months.


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[timzcat]

You can't fix this he will eventually figure it out. Couldn't truly afford the Audi (72 mo)
Leased a car with negative equity.
Wants another car in 3 years he will have no down payment for because he is over paying on the lease and the Tesla is financially out of reach.
Eventually he will be paying a $1000 a month for a Honda.

[ProfessorBlinks]

You can't fix this he will eventually figure it out. Couldn't truly afford the Audi (72 mo)
Leased a car with negative equity.
Wants another car in 3 years he will have no down payment for because he is over paying on the lease and the Tesla is financially out of reach.
Eventually he will be paying a $1000 a month for a Honda.

Thank you for your positive and helpful reply..... I will take your suggestions into consideration [confused]

[DannyDeez]

What would be a better option? Keep driving the current S4 until I am not upside-down anymore. Drive it past its soon-to-be expired warranty HOPING that it doesn't break anything. It just had a thermostat go which would have cost me a substantial chunk out of pocket.

Should I have traded in the S4 for a new S4. Roll 8K in negative equity into another luxury car? Have a good solid 1,000 per month payment for a mid range Audi???

Should I have put it on Autotrader? A reply earlier said he had a similar car listed for 21K and he is getting no interested buyers.

I signed an average lease which is costing me 12.5K over 3 years plus tax and fees. And I traded a car for 19.5K that wont auction for more than 21. I rolled 200 a month of negative equity into my payments. The salesman didn't make THAT much money off of me....

Really guys? Who has a better option that what I did? [rolleyes] I especially look forward to the "much better" recommendations from mr shickadance, DannyDeez, and 14S4GWM.

Yes and yes. Did you call audi of america as I suggested to find out when your warranty officially expires? Even if it did expire this september(which I still find hard to believe) that gives you 5 more months of driving the car and paying it down some more. It also gives you 5 months to have it up for sale on autortrader, the classifieds here, cars.com, craigslist, and wherever else before you have to worry about out of pocket fixes.

The guy who is trying to sell his car is selling a 2011 according to his sig. Nobody wants 10's and 11's as they were more problematic than the 12. Thats why during my search I NEVER looked at a 2010-11. It was 2012 or nothing. Your car is more desirable so I believe you'd have a better chance, especially priced at $26k. Thats $6k less than I JUST paid and you only have 30k more miles. More than a fair price to sell it for. Plus you have the highly desirable sports diff and 6MT. You keep mentioning the thermostat, but you should know that the t-stat is the most common thing to go on these cars, and probably the only thing that has been going bad on them.

You should have at least rode the Audi out until the warranty expired. Plus you could have gotten a better deal on the subaru during the summer months as car manufacturers always run memorial day and summer deals. Especially on awd vehicles.

If you don't think thats a better option than what you did, then you truly can't be helped.

[kcrunch]

What would be a better option? Keep driving the current S4 until I am not upside-down anymore. Drive it past its soon-to-be expired warranty HOPING that it doesn't break anything. It just had a thermostat go which would have cost me a substantial chunk out of pocket.

Should I have traded in the S4 for a new S4. Roll 8K in negative equity into another luxury car? Have a good solid 1,000 per month payment for a mid range Audi???

Should I have put it on Autotrader? A reply earlier said he had a similar car listed for 21K and he is getting no interested buyers.

I signed an average lease which is costing me 12.5K over 3 years plus tax and fees. And I traded a car for 19.5K that wont auction for more than 21. I rolled 200 a month of negative equity into my payments. The salesman didn't make THAT much money off of me....

Really guys? Who has a better option that what I did? [rolleyes] I especially look forward to the "much better" recommendations from mr shickadance, DannyDeez, and 14S4GWM.

As Dannydeez mentioned, you could have kept the S4 a bit longer but I'm not sure that makes much sense as i think the car is currently depreciating faster than you are paying it off with the miles you are putting on it.

I think you made the best of the situation. I'm sure you realize in retrospect the 72 month loan on a used car CPO Audi was not the best choice, especially since you put a lot of miles on it. But there is nothing you can do about it now. So leasing a reliable but less expensive car and rolling your negative equity into the lease makes sense, especially since you are keeping the payment around $600, which presumably you can afford. It's actually a pretty smart move since you are essentially $7300 in debt but now you can take out a loan for the $7300 along with your lease at less than 5% and pay it off over the next 3 years. Enjoy the WRX. Subarus are great cars, and undoubtedly a better value than an Audi.

[ProfessorBlinks]

I think you made the best of the situation. I'm sure you realize in retrospect the 72 month loan on a used car CPO Audi was not the best choice, especially since you put a lot of miles on it. But there is nothing you can do about it now. So leasing a reliable but less expensive car and rolling you negative equity into the lease makes sense, especially since you are keeping the payment around $600, which presumably you can afford. It's actually a pretty smart move since you are essentially $7300 in debt but now you can take out a loan for the $7300 along with your lease at less than 5% and pay it off over the next 3 years. Enjoy the WRX. Subarus are great cars, and undoubtedly a better value than an Audi.

This is *exactly* my train of thought. Drive a more affordable car for 3 years, pay off the debt, and in 3 years be back at square one. Then I can easily afford leasing a car @ 600 a month with 0 down and no trade-in, as it is easy enough to do. Factor another $150 a month saving on gas, and I can easily see myself leasing a Tesla 3 with a few options for ~45k for my next car. Or I could pick up a Honda for 1000 a month [:D]

Called AoA. Car was serviced on September 16, 2014. It had 55k miles. This started the clock on the CPO warranty. 2 years on the CPO warranty brings it to September 16, 2016.

"• 24 months/50,000 miles comprehensive
after new-car warranty expires"

[Vanimal]

Yes and yes. Did you call audi of america as I suggested to find out when your warranty officially expires? Even if it did expire this september(which I still find hard to believe) that gives you 5 more months of driving the car and paying it down some more. It also gives you 5 months to have it up for sale on autortrader, the classifieds here, cars.com, craigslist, and wherever else before you have to worry about out of pocket fixes.

The guy who is trying to sell his car is selling a 2011 according to his sig. Nobody wants 10's and 11's as they were more problematic than the 12. Thats why during my search I NEVER looked at a 2010-11. It was 2012 or nothing. Your car is more desirable so I believe you'd have a better chance, especially priced at $26k. Thats $6k less than I JUST paid and you only have 30k more miles. More than a fair price to sell it for. Plus you have the highly desirable sports diff and 6MT. You keep mentioning the thermostat, but you should know that the t-stat is the most common thing to go on these cars, and probably the only thing that has been going bad on them.

You should have at least rode the Audi out until the warranty expired. Plus you could have gotten a better deal on the subaru during the summer months as car manufacturers always run memorial day and summer deals. Especially on awd vehicles.

If you don't think thats a better option than what you did, then you truly can't be helped.

Pretty much.

[agorich]

having the peace of mind for a car under warranty is hard to beat if you don't turn wrenches for yourself. I for one do not, so I can understand the lure of a warranty. That is why I got mine with a CPO also. 90k miles left or until Feb 2021. haha. I've always "planned" on keeping cars until the wheels fall off. I held the civic for 5 years and the f-150 for 5 years. They both still ran great but I wanted something else and here I am now. We are all in our own financial situations and what the OP did may be best for himself regardless if someone else looks at it and thinks otherwise with a bias of their own situation. Good luck w/ the subie. that is one of the cars i've always liked to see on the street. It is also one of the ones I always have to sit in when I go to car shows. Lets see a pic if you get the chance.

[The Fat Kid]

WTF just happened. I feel like we got trolled. This guy just majorly downgraded from an S4 to a BASE WRX and he's paying more in monthly payments.. How does that even happen?!

+1.

http://i.imgur.com/AaHv0TF.gif

[mr shickadance]

i honestly give up, tell yourself whatever you need to in order to fall asleep at night but at the end of the day you rolled about 8k of negative equity into a tuned-out econo box to which you will be making insane monthly payments on, but it's okay bc you put $0 down.

I had a recent STI, good luck on the highway, they are LOUD on the inside.

[jlaudio]

and older folks wonder why millennials have little to no net worth or savings. [>_<] lol...

[mr shickadance]

and older folks wonder why millennials have little to no net worth or savings. [>_<] lol...

you have it all wrong JL, you see the auto loan industry is predatory and clearly took advatnage of Blinks, and it's their fault. there is absolutely no way for blinks to have known what a terrible financial mistake he made.


ProfessorBlinks should not be responsible for their actions, it's always the big corporations fault.

#feelthebern.

[The Fat Kid]

you have it all wrong JL, you see the auto loan industry is predatory and clearly took advatnage of Blinks, and it's their fault. there is absolutely no way for blinks to have known what a terrible financial mistake he made.


ProfessorBlinks should not be responsible for their actions, it's always the big corporations fault.

#feelthebern.

Feel the Bern, indeed.

https://theuniversalspectator.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/bernie-finger.jpg

[jlaudio]

you have it all wrong JL, you see the auto loan industry is predatory and clearly took advatnage of Blinks, and it's their fault. there is absolutely no way for blinks to have known what a terrible financial mistake he made.


ProfessorBlinks should not be responsible for their actions, it's always the big corporations fault.

#feelthebern.

you know OP started with that line of reasoning in the first post lol.. i'm surprised more people didn't pick up on it. i'm no old fart, i am a millennial (age 30), but this entire thread was just cringe worthy:


I just feel very frustrated at Audi right now. I never expected to be put in this position, and having much less of a car under a loan with a huge initial cost and a higher monthly payment just blows my mind. If I knew I was going to be thousands upside down, I would have leased back then and have avoided this problem. I just feel completely taken advantage of.

[jzinckgra]

Not to hijack, but I'm looking for 2014/15 CPO S4. Assume I keep it until 100K then go to trade. Are dealers going to even give you a decent trade with this many miles or is the car nearly beyond it's service limits for the dealer to resell. Maybe it just goes to auction? I realize 100K miles isn't that much but for an Audi out of warranty, it seems like a big gamble.

[Audacious]

Yikes, I knew this was going to be a disaster as soon as I read "72 month loan on a used car".... dealers love you, man. Could have easily made a few extra grand trying to sell privately over the next few months till your warranty is up.

But, hopefully you learned from this experience and will be a smarter car buyer in 3 years. In the meantime, enjoy the manually adjustable seats in that WRX!

[ChoyV]

IMHO, the best option is to drive your S4 until you have, at least, a $0 equity. While at the same time try to sell your car privately. You will be hit less financially. Remember that you are negotiating for both the trade-in and the new replacement. You can have a better deal if you are just negotiating for the new car.

[Mr.Tan]

im in the same situation, except i paid alittle more for my '12 in 2014 w/46k miles because i traded in a jeep that I still owed on (i bought it without really thinking about if i wanted it), now im even more upside down on the audi due to the depreciation and amount still owed with a 72 month loan. I should have kept the jeep a year or so longer and just paid it off until i broke even.

[Senseless]

When you start in life, wait until you can pay cash for your first car. Spend the next 5 years saving for the next vehicle and repeat for a lifetime.

[Powderhound]

When you start in life, wait until you can pay cash for your first car. Spend the next 5 years saving for the next vehicle and repeat for a lifetime.

This ^^^ except it usually takes me closer to every ten years because I'm dumping money into mods instead of saving.

[dawes1b]

Hello,

How much do you all pay for your S4s and are you concerned about depreciation?

I purchased my 2012 S4 Prestige Sport-diff CPOed in March 2014. 45k miles $38300. A few thousand down, 72 month loan, $602 monthly. Absolutely loved the car for the past 2 years. No accidents, great condition, etc. Loved the car and took great care of it.

Car currently has 81000 miles, current buyout is $26,800, CPO warranty is up in September of this year. I began to look into trading it in for the next adventure. Quite shocked and appalled at the depreciation. Two non-Audi dealers offered me KBB value for the car which is a laughable $19K.

I went back to the Audi dealership who originally sold me the car (Lagan Audi now Audi Albany). First time (End of March) they offered me 23.5k on the car towards a new A3 premium lease. 15k/36 lease, 3411 down (Fees and tax only), $580 monthly. I told them I would shop around and be back. I went back today (April 11), they said the dealer incentives have changed. They offered me 21500 for the car, 4050 down (Fees, taxes, the rest as what they said was a cap cost reduction once I called them out on the higher down payment), and $621 monthly. I want to walk away from this, but I feel stuck as I feel like I am going to take such a bigger hit on the trade by going to a different dealership.

I just feel very frustrated at Audi right now. I never expected to be put in this position, and having much less of a car under a lease with a huge initial cost and a higher monthly payment just blows my mind. If I knew I was going to be thousands upside down, I would have leased back then and have avoided this problem. I just feel completely taken advantage of.

I don't know if this post even belongs in this forum, but I just feel the need to vent and to see what others have experienced... Anyone else been in this position besides me? Any advice or tips for me?

Thank you and regards.

Dealers make way more $ on used cars than new. Buying privately is way to go, those selling are OK to deal with. You can ask for service records AND if you have cash bargain them down. You can save $5000 on $25000 purchase. Trading in a $20,000 used car for newer $30,000 car might cost $7-$8 K in dealer profits!

Selling is ickier proposition and the lower the sales price the ickier the experience, but you can net 10 to 20% more if you are willing.

As to A3, it's a dressed up Volkswagen golf, buy a used A4 privately. Lastly, driving a S4 nearing 100k miles is way better than new A3/golf that rides on the a7 vw platform. I have a 2003 A4 V6 and just pay repairs. The A4 rides on B platform, mine is B6, your S4 is probably on newer on B8.

Sean

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[Hellahashtags]

OP you paid $38,300 and if you get the $23,500 it means you paid $14,800 in depreciation for driving 36k miles.

Now, I think the A3 lease is ironically going to cost you even more to drive 36k miles if you look at the numbers. Of course that's because the A3 is a new car which depreciates even faster. But this could have been worse - you could have bought a new S4 back in 2014 and it would have probably depreciated closer to $20k vs $14800.

If you want a nice car without so much depreciation you need to look at say Infiniti or Acura. But it won't be an Audi.

Losing $14.8K in depreciation here is equivalent to leasing the same car for 24 months at $450/month with $4K due at signing. Framed this way, I hope it lessens the pain of depreciation for OP. You could do much worse with this kind of lease.

[dream3R]

Its timing in the UK, people will pay if they want it. make it better than the average ebay skip and it will sell.

[letterk]

When you start in life, wait until you can pay cash for your first car. Spend the next 5 years saving for the next vehicle and repeat for a lifetime.

Such a great concept that our society has made it hard to follow. Delayed gratification is very difficult. While I finance my cars (for flexibility), it's usually with a very large down, and I always end up paying it off within 6 months just because I hate having a car payment.

[SportVier]

Delayed gratification is very difficult.

Difficult, but essential. "All good things come to those who wait."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-predict-success-chidren-look-beyond-willpower/

[letterk]

Difficult, but essential. "All good things come to those who wait."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-predict-success-chidren-look-beyond-willpower/

Yes, and it's something I worry about with my kids. I grew up in a decent, but tight financial family. We had what we needed, but luxuries were rare. If I wanted something, I had to save up for it. I'm blessed that my adult financial situation is different. While we've tried to instill the same in our kids, I fear we are often too quick to treat them with things they want. Especially when we loan them money. That's just teaching them the wrong thing, right?

[TexasDfwS4]

I would say lessen learned, at least he didn't setup a go-fund-me sight like one other younger member did.

[Vanimal]

Well dang let's not pile on him all at once. Oh wait he sold his Audi, he's no longer family. Get Him! *raises pitchfork*

Just kidding.... ;)


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[Classy]

^^Great life lessons.
I learned this too growing up. I was able to buy my first car with my sister for $4500. An Eclpise.
Then I was able to save while driving my first car for my Audi. I bought my Audi for $20000 CASH when I was 24. Talk about gratifying. It has been a blessing and I hope to continue that lifestyle.

Now if only I could save up to buy my first house with cash.... That's my next goal!

[b6onboost]

Nope. The trade value will be low.

The dealer likely won't even consider re-sale. The car will basically go straight to auction and they'll quote you auction prices (Below NADA/KBB trade). Probably around a $15k offer. Modern euro luxury cars just depreciate a lot. Their unreliable reputation and high repair costs makes their value plummet with high mileage and no warranty.


Not to hijack, but I'm looking for 2014/15 CPO S4. Assume I keep it until 100K then go to trade. Are dealers going to even give you a decent trade with this many miles or is the car nearly beyond it's service limits for the dealer to resell. Maybe it just goes to auction? I realize 100K miles isn't that much but for an Audi out of warranty, it seems like a big gamble.

Yeah, seems like he knows his 72 month loan with a high rate and little down put him in a negative equity situation. General rule is 10-20% down and no longer than a 48mo term. Its basically so you avoid ever being upside down. He'll deal with a Base WRX for a few years then be back to square one.


I would say lessen learned.

[StevenStarke]

Hello,

How much do you all pay for your S4s and are you concerned about depreciation?

I purchased my 2012 S4 Prestige Sport-diff CPOed in March 2014. 45k miles $38300. A few thousand down, 72 month loan, $602 monthly. Absolutely loved the car for the past 2 years. No accidents, great condition, etc. Loved the car and took great care of it.

Car currently has 81000 miles, current buyout is $26,800, CPO warranty is up in September of this year. I began to look into trading it in for the next adventure. Quite shocked and appalled at the depreciation. Two non-Audi dealers offered me KBB value for the car which is a laughable $19K.

I went back to the Audi dealership who originally sold me the car (Lagan Audi now Audi Albany). First time (End of March) they offered me 23.5k on the car towards a new A3 premium lease. 15k/36 lease, 3411 down (Fees and tax only), $580 monthly. I told them I would shop around and be back. I went back today (April 11), they said the dealer incentives have changed. They offered me 21500 for the car, 4050 down (Fees, taxes, the rest as what they said was a cap cost reduction once I called them out on the higher down payment), and $621 monthly. I want to walk away from this, but I feel stuck as I feel like I am going to take such a bigger hit on the trade by going to a different dealership.

I just feel very frustrated at Audi right now. I never expected to be put in this position, and having much less of a car under a lease with a huge initial cost and a higher monthly payment just blows my mind. If I knew I was going to be thousands upside down, I would have leased back then and have avoided this problem. I just feel completely taken advantage of.

I don't know if this post even belongs in this forum, but I just feel the need to vent and to see what others have experienced... Anyone else been in this position besides me? Any advice or tips for me?

Thank you and regards.


Well what did you expect? You purchased a used car from a dealer (first mistake) and now are looking to trade it back in (2nd mistake) on a lease (3rd mistake) where you will get no tax savings.

When you buy a used car from a dealer, you're over paying. Because unlike new cars where you can just go to another dealer, chances are that exact car is limited. Any Audi dealer can sell you a 2016 S4. Not every dealer had 2012 s4's on the lot like that one did when you bought it.

When you trade in a used car to a dealer, you're getting the lowest possible price for it. So then they can turn around and put it back on the lot for $28,999 and maybe get chewed down to 28k from some other novice car buyer.

Finally, why are you trading it in on a lease? You don't even get the tax savings if I'm not mistaken.



Just sell the car privately and then go lease an A3 if you want. Leasing is a hard sell to me. The 4050 down/621 a month is including rolling your negative equity in right? Because that's a total cost of over $26,000 to own the A3 for 3 years. How the hell does that make any sense to you?
You can buy a 2015 A3 premium with 8500 miles on it for less than that RIGHT NOW. $25,500 buy it now. Case in point:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-A3-Premium-Sedan-4-Door-/252335033497?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ac0570c99:g:FsoAAOSwKtVW01z-&item=252335033497
3 years from now with 55k miles, this A3 will still be worth a minimum of 14k-15k. So now you spent 11k to own the car for 3 years vs 26k.

[B8Addict]

Well what did you expect? You purchased a used car from a dealer (first mistake) and now are looking to trade it back in (2nd mistake) on a lease (3rd mistake) where you will get no tax savings.

When you buy a used car from a dealer, you're over paying. Because unlike new cars where you can just go to another dealer, chances are that exact car is limited. Any Audi dealer can sell you a 2016 S4. Not every dealer had 2012 s4's on the lot like that one did when you bought it.

When you trade in a used car to a dealer, you're getting the lowest possible price for it. So then they can turn around and put it back on the lot for $28,999 and maybe get chewed down to 29k from some other novice car buyer.

Finally, why are you trading it in on a lease? You don't even get the tax savings if I'm not mistaken.



Just sell the car privately and then go lease an A3 if you want. Leasing is a hard sell to me. The 4050 down/621 a month is including rolling your negative equity in right? Because that's a total cost of over $26,000 to own the A3 for 3 years. How the hell does that make any sense to you?
You can buy a 2015 A3 premium with 8500 miles on it for less than that RIGHT NOW. $25,500 buy it now. Case in point:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-A3-Premium-Sedan-4-Door-/252335033497?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ac0570c99:g:FsoAAOSwKtVW01z-&item=252335033497
3 years from now with 55k miles, this A3 will still be worth a minimum of 14k-15k. So now you spent 11k to own the car for 3 years vs 26k.

+1.

That is really eye opening.

[Vanimal]

I am bringing Steven with me when I go car shopping next time lol.

I thought about going back to a 4 door & trading from my 2010 B8 S5 coupe to a B8.5 S4. But I still enjoy the car, only has 78k on it well kept by me. I owe a good chunk less than what the average trade in shows which is roughly 23k. I'm sure I'll be beat down, goal would be become even Steven.

I decided instead of shelling out another downpayment or raise my current car payment yada yada. I will upgrade to a nice set of 20" wheels & H&R OE springs & a RS5 grille. and it fill me with that new car joy again. And I can always re coupe a few dollars when I sell the rims in 1-2 years if I trade it in or sell it & put the stock items back on. Bit to mention my H&R OE springs were only $100 via a friend since he switched to coils on his 2 months later. And installed free from him, WIN...


I can't imagine going from a B8 S4/S5 refined interior to a Subaru, it's gotta be a culture shock!




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[14S4GWM]

You still owe 20k on a 6 yr old car, wow. Then got into another high lousy payment, wow. You should definitely take someone with you next time. Lots of good advice for you to entertain here.

[Vanimal]

You still owe 20k on a 6 yr old car, wow. Then got into another high lousy payment, wow. You should definitely take someone with you next time. Lots of good advice for you to entertain here.

Who me lol? My car is worth more than I owe on it. I had a typo in my response. I'm not the OP.


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[Vanimal]

Never mind I don't think you meant me. Mobile version is too crammed on my iPhone lol.


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[14S4GWM]

Who me lol? My car is worth more than I owe on it. I had a typo in my response. I'm not the OP.


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There was another thread going about depreciation also,my fault lol. Good work on your finances then, carry on.

edit I did mix you up with the op, my bad.

[Vanimal]

There was another thread going about depreciation also,my fault lol. Good work on your finances then, carry on.

edit I did mix you up with the op, my bad.

Lol, no prob. I do get the itch sometimes, to maybe upgrade to something new. But my S5 never did me wrong, still get complements all the time. Still look back when I park and go into the store etc etc. I said when I paid my Last DD off which was a Hummer H3 I was taking a year or two off from car payments.

I would have kept the S4 if I were him, it's not like t was a bad car lol. I'm sure it had PLENTY of life left. The B8's are a great design and will hold true 5-6 years from now easily. Hell the B7 RS4 is still a sexy car in 2016!


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[artz66]

OP needs Dave Ramsey in his life. And also read up on fleasing because that ends up being about 17% interest.

[Vanimal]

OP needs Dave Ramsey in his life. And also read up on fleasing because that ends up being about 17% interest.

I always thought leasing was for really for the business man for company vehicles. My Dad would get a car every like 2 years when I was younger, top model & all that jazz.

A large company can take a small depression hit like that, it's pennies to them essentially.

I never leases so wouldn't surely know. This is my 2nd financed vehicle and I'm 31. Rest I bought cash. I hate car payments. I have a fiancé now all the chicks & the cool kids don't give a shit what I drive anymore lmao.

Does it still count if you feel cool inside? :(


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[chbrook]

I've stopped flipping cars for this reason. You will lose unless you drive an Evo, air cooled, 911 or other car that has unusually high resale. Depreciation always cracks me up, sometimes I look around at car values and it does not match what my initial thought of what the car is worth.

In general german sport sedans are a losing proposition resale wise.

I see the value of certain cars and just laugh. For example, a 2013 freaking WRX is worth about what my car is worth. Go take both cars for an honest drive and tell me with a straight face my car isn't worth 10K more. For that reason alone I won't sell it. There is no way in hell I'd trade it in or sell it for $25K, its a joke. Plus I like it a lot so I don't really care : )

I was very close to buying a WRX Sti just so I wouldn't lose much money on it, but I'd rather get something I like and eat the cost.

I was going to post about air-cooled Porsche Turbo's when I saw roadawg's post. It is what it is. The S4 isn't a limited-run car, they're mass produced. It's simple supply vs demand, I'm sure high-millage S4's scare buyers b/c they're not going to be CPO'd and the maintenance can get pricey. I'm sure I'd take it up the a$$ if I sold mine, but I bought my 10' CPO'd for cash in 12. I knew what I was paying and what kind of millage I'd be doing. Not a good answer, but I'm sure R8 owners go through a similar thing, R8 is not limited, Audi will sell sell sell......

[artz66]

I always thought leasing was for really for the business man for company vehicles. My Dad would get a car every like 2 years when I was younger, top model & all that jazz.

A large company can take a small depression hit like that, it's pennies to them essentially.

I never leases so wouldn't surely know. This is my 2nd financed vehicle and I'm 31. Rest I bought cash. I hate car payments. I have a fiancé now all the chicks & the cool kids don't give a shit what I drive anymore lmao.

Does it still count if you feel cool inside? :(


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Leasing is ok for business because it's tax write off if ran through the business. My parents get a new Denali Yukon every year but it's all under the company and in the long run its better for taxes or so I've been told.

I buy cars because I like the but I never expect them to do anything but depreciate. Cars like these, corvette, and Porsche do it well esp once you hit 50k+ miles on them. I've experienced that first hand. I was going to lease but really read into it. If you're up side down it can get you back to even but your going to pay for it over the years of the lease.

[b6onboost]

Feeling cool inside is pretty much all that ever counted.

You could have a 2010 S5 that's paid off or a 2015 RS5 with a mountain of debt...no one cares. Most people can't even tell a difference. The only person you're really impressing is yourself, so you just have to put a price on that.


I have a fiancé now all the chicks & the cool kids don't give a shit what I drive anymore lmao. Does it still count if you feel cool inside? :(