Direct W/M port injection in stock Intake manifold?

[Quattr007]

Seeing as the HEP manifolds cost 1.5 large, could this be done? What would the potential dangers be, and where would be the best place On the IM to place the nozzle?

[shiro1745]

First you should have in mind that each cylinder needs to get the same amount of w/m so the best thing to do is have one nozzle for each cylinder. I'm saying this because I saw you wrote "nozzle" not nozzles.

[Operator]

AudIIan was selling a intake mani for about $1k.

But to answer your question: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/314616-(viziers-s)-Garrett-GT3076R-Big-Turbo-Build?p=6834882&viewfull=1#post6834882

[Quattr007]

Wow, that's really cool what vizi did with the 4 port injection! I wonder if im brave enough to take that project on! I haven't seen vizi post lately, is still he around?

Just wondering how he mounted the nozzles. I was thinking of drilling holes slightly narrower than the bungs, screwing them in and running a bead of JB weld around the top.

[ericpaulyoung]

If you go read the Devil's Own site, the best place for a nozzle is actually upstream right after the last intercooler, as this allows the most time for homogenization and mixing. So site #3 is where you "should" aim for.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/content/20-where-to-locate-your-alcohol-water-injection-nozzle


http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/TurboEngine_zps3f61b8b1.gif (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/ericpaulyoung/media/TurboEngine_zps3f61b8b1.gif.html)

Eric

[mr shickadance]

vizi had a minor meltdown no?

[mr shickadance]

If you go read the Devil's Own site, the best place for a nozzle is actually upstream right after the last intercooler, as this allows the most time for homogenization and mixing. So site #3 is where you "should" aim for.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/content/20-where-to-locate-your-alcohol-water-injection-nozzle


http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/TurboEngine_zps3f61b8b1.gif (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/ericpaulyoung/media/TurboEngine_zps3f61b8b1.gif.html)

Eric



i thought the 4 individual nozzles is the best way to get more power no? albeit somewhat of a tuning nightmare, but when you see the impressive builds for other cars usually it's one nozzle per cylinder no?

i mean i know you have tons more knowledge on the matter than i do but whenever someone sends me a link to check out a crazy build, i have seen a nozzle for a cylinder

[ericpaulyoung]

Actually I am not a methanol injection expert by any means; only know what I have read and my experience with the install on my car. But I think the reason for individual nozzles is for higher flow rates and to get bigger droplets into the cylinders and for wetting the intake to keep it clean. That is just my guess though. If you inject after the intake air temperature sensor, then your ECU will not give you better timing advance as it won't see the cooling effects of the meth injection; so it won't help you run a higher octane tune unless the only limit is the knock sensors. So I would definitely put the injection upstream of the IAT sensor.

The second reason I think people do manifold injection is for show; it just looks cooler to have a bunch of tubes running to the engine rather then just one. But I am all for stealth, so you can't even see mine really.
- Eric

[Charles.waite]

WM is mainly to cool the intake charge so as long as you add it far enough upstream to homogenize in the intake mixture, you shouldn't NEED one injector per nozzle. Its really common in the 1.8t to add an intermediate plate between the IM and Throttle Body and inject there with a single injector solenoid.

You could do one injector placed in each IM runner, but theres so little space in the 2.0t IM (and its plastic so no welding bungs [facepalm]) that there isn't really space to do it properly. If you have metal intake piping the ideal solution would be to weld on an injector bung and inject somewhere before the TB. That has the added benefit of keeping the IM and the valves from accumulating too much carbon buildup.

Also, what shick said.

[Operator]

WM is mainly to cool the intake charge so as long as you add it far enough upstream to homogenize in the intake mixture, you shouldn't NEED one injector per nozzle.

That's half of it. The methenol portion also ups the octane. i.e allows you to fill up with 93oct, and run a 100oct race file.

[Charles.waite]

That's half of it. The methenol portion also ups the octane. i.e allows you to fill up with 93oct, and run a 100oct race file.

Oh really? I thought the methanol just provided an evaporative effect, causing the charge to cool down more. Interesting.

New things? I'm learning them.

[Quattr007]

Yeah, w/m deters detonation so you can act like your fueln with a higher octane. I think I'll just stick with a nozzle on my TB pipe, as I'd really need a new tune to utilize the 4port anyways.

[mr shickadance]

That's half of it. The methenol portion also ups the octane. i.e allows you to fill up with 93oct, and run a 100oct race file.

if you run closer than a 50-50 split, yes....some people that do meth injection to up the octane will run 100% meth

[mr shickadance]

obligatory breakingbad.gif