Wheel Alignment Problems - ADS and ACC

[resonance]

I have a 2012 S4 Prestige with the 19 inch peelers, with ADS and ACC. I took my car to a local reputable shop with a very good alignment tech. They have one of the latest brand new Hunter laser alignment racks (sorry I don't know the model though) that the wheel mounts clip to the tire and not the rim (never seen this before on older racks).

The rack walks the tech through the process of performing the manual part of any typical aligment, adjust camber, then toe... adjust the front then the rear.. etc. All of that went fine and well. Then the rack (because my car has ADS) instructs the tech to perform a steering wheel calibration.

This process apparently does not complete successfully, and now I have multiple MILs on. There is a steering fault and a sport rear differential fault. ESP is also disabled. So now my car is at the dealership to calibrate the steering wheel and hopefully remove the faults. Also, as it turns out, ACC also has to be calibrated from just simple toe changes, and can only be performed at the dealership as Audi has not released the equipment to 3rd parties to perform it yet (per the Hunter regional rep).

I've bought the shop manuals from the erWin site for our cars, I've looked at the "basic setting" setup for the steering wheel. Everything tells me that the rack should have been able to do this successfully (the rack even displays verbiage word for word from the Audi manuals and even the VAS tools to be used). At the moment, I'm left wondering... what and how am I supposed to get an aligment on this thing? I've done it often in the past for my other cars...

So, have any of you had your S4 with ADS (and maybe ACC).. hopefully someone with a 2012.. successfully aligned, and what was your experiance? Could the alignment shop do it? Did you have to go to the dealer? Do you have any advice for me (other than telling me i shouldn't have got the ADS and ACC options :P)?

Thanks for any help!!

[sworksone]

I've had my alignment (with ADS) redone multiple times at multiple dealers. I think I'm up to six now in 30,000 km but it's been so many times I might have forgotten one. There always seems to be a problem between the wheel alignment and the steering wheel alignment - one is OK and the other is not - they couldn't seem to get both correct together. I finally had success in the summer with the second return to the same dealer (they told me they had their "best guy" on it which seemed to be the case as it was finally fixed). I've read about the requirement to re-center the steernig wheel with the dynamic steering component of ADS and assume that somehow this was the issue. As such I'd be very nervous taking it to anyone but Audi for an alignment. Sorry can't comment on ACC.

[mikejsully]

I went through the same thing when I had the OE sports installed. Reputable shop, hunter equip... MIL's and lights all over the dash.

car is ADS, no ACC. My guy at the dealer basically said that these car's with the Full ADS and active steering cannot be aligned/re programed outside of the dealer yet. The "Audi Hal Computer" has to talk with the different systems to placate them.

[slikrik314]

Hmm interesting. I was going to get my springs installed this weekend and get it aligned while at the same shop, but this might deter me (have ADS, no ACC). Subscribed.

[mikejsully]

Hmm interesting. I was going to get my springs installed this weekend and get it aligned while at the same shop, but this might deter me (have ADS, no ACC). Subscribed.

My dealer fixed the issue for me free of charge after my spring install, YMMV but I would not let this stop you. At most you just pay the dealer for the alignment instead of the shop. You should wait a few hundred miles to align anyway. The OE sports are a fantastic addition to the ADS. They seem much better matched to the dampers in all modes.

[AofC_RR]

Yes ACC requires calibration anytime the alignment is changed. So a dealer visit is required.

[resonance]

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences. I brought my car to the dealership this past Monday (2/27) and after having my car for 3 and a half days I finally got it back today. The car pulls to the right and the steering wheel is still off center to the right. The only benefit is I don't have all of the fault lights christmas tree'd all over the instrument cluster. My experience with my dealer was less than stellar as well, and I have no confidence in them that they can get the car aligned at this point. I feel as though I am following in the foosteps of sworksone now most likely, trying to find a dealer with proper knowledge and skill to get the alignment and steering calibration straight. When talking to my dealer, I'm positive that they have never aligned an ADS car before and my car was a learning experiance that they tried to perform on my dime. I'm a nerd, and I've read the owner's manual and no where in the manual that I recall am I instructed to bring the car to an Audi dealership alone for alignments. I was made to feel that I am at fault for trying to get my car aligned. If I had known simple maintenance is off limits on this car when my wife and I were shopping, I think we might be driving something else right now. I receive better customer service from the local honda dealership on my Honda Fit... which, is terrible imo.

Anywho, being in a state with very few dealerships (no competition), I'm not feeling very positive on my chances of getting the car straight. I have one other dealership within close range to try to contact and see if they can get the car straight (pun intended).

I would like to hear if anyone else has had their car with ADS successfully aligned by anyone else other than an Audi dealership? ACC is definatly not doable by anyone but the dealership, as AofC_RR mentioned. For anyone considering these very expensive options on your S4, as of right now, my advice is to stay away from these options. I very much regret getting these options now due to the additional complexity.

Thanks again everyone!

[P_RsS4]

I had my car lowered on OE and I also feel the car pulls very lightly to the right at times. The steering wheel is also slightly misaligned to the right. APR did mine. I am taking my car up soon to get the pulley/stage 2 and having them check or realign the car.

[resonance]

Ahh, intresting... if anyone outside of Audi can align an ADS car, figures it would be APR :). Alabama isn't too far of a drive for me if/when I'm ready for some go-fast bits.

Thanks for that tip P_RsS4!

[GoM's]

I had my springs installed at one place and then the car aligned that day at an Audi dealer. The car has handled beautifully, but this afternoon I had the wheels pulled and replaced, and much to my chagrin, the tires had been eaten along the inside. I think I should have waited a good week to allow the springs to settle before getting an alignment; now I need new tires.

[P_RsS4]

Ahh, intresting... if anyone outside of Audi can align an ADS car, figures it would be APR :). Alabama isn't too far of a drive for me if/when I'm ready for some go-fast bits.

Thanks for that tip P_RsS4!

You're Welcome!!

[Innovator]

I own a shop and I have the latest Hunter alignment machine that you mention. I made the mistake of resetting the steering angle sensor with the Hunter machine, and had all the problems of the OP. The dealer did not use the fixture to re calibrate the ACC, and said it was not really necessary. I dunno... They did have to reset the steering angle sensor and clear the codes. At the time, I could not do that myself because I did not have the newest VAG-COM cable and my scan tool only goes up to 2009. Since then, I have aligned my car numerous times, without calibrating it, with no issues.The ACC seems to work fine. I am still unsure about the braking assist. I never really understood what the hell that does, as far as when it's supposed to kick in. I am going to have the dealer calibrate it eventually. Might have to pay out of pocket though. I plan on buying the fixture because we work on a tremendous amount of Audis.

And BTW, I had issues getting my steering wheel straight with this car. It must have something to do with the Dynamic steering. In the end, I had to set the steering wheel position slightly off center to the right to get it straight. It has been a PITA, and I do not like the Dynamic steering feel.

[sirpickles]

is ADS alignment still an issue for non-dealers? I need to do this next week and wanted to know if I should pay 270 at the dealer or 100 at my shop :)

[Deckdout2]

is ADS alignment still an issue for non-dealers? I need to do this next week and wanted to know if I should pay 270 at the dealer or 100 at my shop :)

Yes, and I just solved my issue this Tuesday with the fault codes through my Vagcom. You just have to recalibrate the steer ahead.

[DavidD]

Just seeing this thread, and boy is this concerning! I was just thinking of taking mine in to get an alignment done. Has anyone had this done outside of an Audi dealership with success?

[Innovator]

There is no need, I repeat,.no need to recalibrate the sonar when doing a wheel alignment unless the sensor itself was disturbed. Do not reset the steering angle steering angle sensor either. Align it and be happy.

[jamesj2k]

Just read this thread and Im more confused. So do we go to the dealer for the alignment?

[S4charged]

Just read this thread and Im more confused. So do we go to the dealer for the alignment?

+1!

Im due for an alignment in about a week, I just installed H&R super sport springs, have ADS!

[Deckdout2]

There is no need, I repeat,.no need to recalibrate the sonar when doing a wheel alignment unless the sensor itself was disturbed. Do not reset the steering angle steering angle sensor either. Align it and be happy.

This is true. As long as they do not hook up the OBDII from the alignment machine to recalibrate you will not have any issues. Your car will self learn itself after the alignment and be fine. Tell the tech not to chose the Electronic Suspension Option and it will skip the calibration part. That is where all the trouble begins.

[Innovator]

I am an Audi specialist. Take my word for it.

[S4charged]

I am an Audi specialist. Take my word for it.


This is true. As long as they do not hook up the OBDII from the alignment machine to recalibrate you will not have any issues. Your car will self learn itself after the alignment and be fine. Tell the tech not to chose the Electronic Suspension Option and it will skip the calibration part. That is where all the trouble begins.

So if I tell the shop what Deckdout2 said I should be good?

[Innovator]

Yes. Tell him not to reset the steering angle sensor. Or anything else. You'll be fine.

[S4charged]

I got my Alignment done, told them not to mess with any of the sensors, they say they just do straight alignment only. Didn't get any error codes

although my car still pulls to the right slightly lol

[PitchS4]

Just have them adjust the bolts and don't touch the computers, all will be good.

[tingman]

I have the exam same problem as everyone here, but I have an b8 Avant w/o ADS. If I put my steering wheel straight, my car goes toward 11' o clock. However, I just did my alignment (non-dealer) and my alignment spec looks dead on. I also checked the tire pressures and they are fine. Any suggestion?

http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t514/davidting925/12-1.jpg

[Leor604]

Alignment really has little to do with the steering wheel angle. If they had the wheel off center when they did the alignment, then your car will track straight and be within spec but will have a crooked wheel. I would take it back and tell them the wheel isn't straight as this is operator error. Straightening the wheel can be accomplished by adjusting the tie rod ends, but that will require another alignment to get toe correct again.

[tingman]

Alignment really has little to do with the steering wheel angle. If they had the wheel off center when they did the alignment, then your car will track straight and be within spec but will have a crooked wheel. I would take it back and tell them the wheel isn't straight as this is operator error. Straightening the wheel can be accomplished by adjusting the tie rod ends, but that will require another alignment to get toe correct again.

Thanks! I'll go back and check with them. Also people are telling me to reset the steering angle sensor. But accordnig to this thread, people are saying DON'T touch the sensors or I'll get faulty codes. But since I don't have ADS & ACC options so does the rule still apply?? If i get faulty codes do I just need use Vagcom to clear the faulty codes??



All Vehicles as of 2012 and some vehicles since around 2005 now will need additional work while performing a wheel alignment service — You now need a reset of your car's computers steering angle sensor. This is an additional step added on now so that your vehicles onboard computers can do their job in assisting you with the built-in safety features built into your vehicles today. - Stoke's Tire Service website.

[Innovator]

Alignment really has little to do with the steering wheel angle. If they had the wheel off center when they did the alignment, then your car will track straight and be within spec but will have a crooked wheel. I would take it back and tell them the wheel isn't straight as this is operator error. Straightening the wheel can be accomplished by adjusting the tie rod ends, but that will require another alignment to get toe correct again.

The problem is, if the wheel isn't straight, it is usually the rear toe that is off, assuming they set the wheel straight to begin with..Sometimes it can be bumped when they get out of the car...

I have had some issues with steer ahead with the B8. (steering wheel not perfectly straight) We align a lot of them, and for some reason, they are very finicky. I suggest using a jacked compensation rather than a rolling one. That seems to give us perfect results the first time...

Also, if the wheel is not straight, it WILL cause problems with the ESP and stability control systems... The steering wheel must be straight when all is said and done.. Especially if you don't reset the steering angle sensor!

[S4charged]

The problem is, if the wheel isn't straight, it is usually the rear toe that is off, assuming they set the wheel straight to begin with..Sometimes it can be bumped when they get out of the car...

I have had some issues with steer ahead with the B8. (steering wheel not perfectly straight) We align a lot of them, and for some reason, they are very finicky. I suggest using a jacked compensation rather than a rolling one. That seems to give us perfect results the first time...

Also, if the wheel is not straight, it WILL cause problems with the ESP and stability control systems... The steering wheel must be straight when all is said and done.. Especially if you don't reset the steering angle sensor!

Meaning the car must drive straight right

[Innovator]

Meaning the car must drive straight right

The steering wheel must be straight, and the car should also be going straight...[headbang][wrench]

[S4charged]

The steering wheel must be straight, and the car should also be going straight...[headbang][wrench]

lol ok ill have to contact the shop! great

[SDF1]

Anyone figure out another option than going to the dealer after an alignment and followed by Christmas light ?

[westwest888]

It sounds like maybe you broke or lost a wheel speed sensor, or some other sensor.

[SDF1]

wheel speed sensor was replaced.
4E0927804D

[SDF1]

Solution found
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/459944-Alignment-lesson-learned?p=9295767&viewfull=1#post9295767

[IanCH]

great stuff to know, glad this thread was revived. I need to get an alignment.

[Crown_23]

Hey guys. Bringing this topic back up. So is there a way to get this issue resolved without going back to the dealer??? I hate to say it, but it is a huge hassle dealing with them sometimes.


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[Crown_23]

bump!!!

[Innovator]

bump!!!
Just align it, and do not reset any sensors. It will be fine. That is the solution.

[SeaBassHWD]

Tag

[kasher_khan]

The steering wheel must be straight, and the car should also be going straight...[headbang][wrench]

When you make the above statement, do you account for round crown?

My car is steering straight in a parking lot but on a crowned highway (and most other roads in NOVA) my car pulls slightly to the right. I have to hold the steering slight off to the left to counter this affect. I have been told that dialing in the caster can help with this without affecting tread wear.

My question is what is Audi factory default for USA? Do these cars compensate for road crown or no? I can't remember how it was before I got the alignment done.

[Innovator]

Does the car actually pull or drift, or is the steering wheel just off center slightly?

[Innovator]

The car will almost always drift to the left or right if the road is crowned. Drive in the middle Lane. If the car goes straight, you have your answer.

[kasher_khan]

Does the car actually pull or drift, or is the steering wheel just off center slightly?

I'd say drifts to the right. The steering might be off center slightly. I drove in the opposing lane on a two lane highway to check and the steering was off center to the right instead of the left. So i'd say the car is netural on the dead straight road. But as far as I can tell there are no dead straight roads around where I live. Everything is heavily crowned.

Is this the normal behavior or should I have the alignment place dial in more caster? I am thinking of heaving the dealer take a look at this when I go in for 25k service.

Note: I only have ADS suspension not steering.

[Innovator]

There is no caster adjustment of significance. Only a slight adjustment for equalization of front camber.

[Crown_23]

Just align it, and do not reset any sensors. It will be fine. That is the solution.

too late. the shop already did!

[schalliol]

This is an old post, but it's relevant to me. I have an S6 with ACC, etc., and I'm confused about why ACC would need to be realigned when the wheels are re-aligned. If the car is out of alignment and anyone gets it back to the original spec, wouldn't that be closer to what the car expects? It seems like the car getting out of alignment while driving could cause an issue with something, but why would bringing it back to spec create a problem?

[Mat@1975]

Hello,

The key is : do only a mechanical 'old style' alignment. The shop does not have to do any electronic stuff while this alignment .
I've have done several alignment now, so far, so good, and i am even slightly dropped.. You will not have any issues if you don't plug anything during the process.

Best regards,

Mat

[schalliol]

That makes perfect sense. When I bought my S6, I immediately went out to Firestone and bought the lifetime alignment, and I align the car every 9 months or so, and I haven't had any problems to date. That said, I got the ACC and Braking Guard: Unavailable message this week, which can't be an issue with alignment Firestone performed quite a while back. I don't want to cause it in the future though.