B8 S4 Revo Stage 1 Dyno Results!

[Auditude2.0T]

After seeing the posts all week about the new Revo Tune i decided to take the dive and give it a shot! I contacted Gary Cogias @ Revo and he immediately catered to me and we were able to have the ECU back and forth in 2 days time for my Stage 1 tune. Due to the winter sale i was also able to get a free program switcher. As soon as i got the ECU in i was very happy with the instant down low power i felt. After giving the car some time to adapt i opened her up and was extremely happy with the results. The car was a NIGHT AND DAY difference. It pulled so hard in every gear i couldn't believe it was the same car. The DSG really suits this car well with the tune, it launches hard, shifts through the gears seamlessly and just pulls and pulls harder in every gear. I figured it would be a good idea to get the car on a dyno so i spent all day to day organizing it and getting out there. I was able to get two pulls in stock and then i took the car off the dyno and drove it for around fifteen miles to adapt to the tune and put it back on the dyno for three pulls. I figured it would be the best comparison to have the same car on the same dyno stock vs. tuned for the best delta. I also used the same dyno which close to a dozen Stock/APR S1/APR S2/APR 100 etc cars have dynoed so i can get an idea how the car stands. So after getting her on the dyno lets just say i was more than happy with the results. I was also able to log the car and everything seemed perfectly in line. The car makes 14.5psi according to the Vag Com. I will post my logs as soon as i get a chance to get on my lap top and sort them out. Here are two dyno sheets, one of the HP and Air/Fuel and the other comparing Stock HP/TQ to Revo Stage 1 HP/TQ. The car is an absolute blast and I'm thrilled thus far to say the least. I'll be getting the car to the track tomorrow for some 1/4 mile testing. I ran a 13.102 as the best ET and 106.05MPH as the best Trap 100% Stock a short while back. The only difference will be the Tune when i go back to the track. Same track, same weight, same driver etc.. The car was able to put i believe 311WHP Stock and then an astounding 387WHP with just the Revo Stage 1 Tune on 93 Octane.

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd440/Auditude20T/38f3988c.jpg
http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd440/Auditude20T/2f0609c8.jpg
http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd440/Auditude20T/808dcb79.jpg
http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd440/Auditude20T/ce930a75.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=BB__dznPA9c

The car is a 2010 DSG.

UPDATE: Track results, time slips and track videos later on this thread.
Best run [email protected]. 93 octane tune only. Everything else is stock.

[A4A4A4]

Wow, those are great numbers. Can't wait to see what your run the 1/4 in.

[Ray Khan]

great numbers

[trinacria]

Way to go Pete, great numbers. We'll set it up for this week. Supposed to get fixed Monday, I'll keep you posted.

[Auditude2.0T]

Way to go Pete, great numbers. We'll set it up for this week. Supposed to get fixed Monday, I'll keep you posted.

Thanks John! Sounds good i'm always down for some pulls :D

[81bear]

Great numbers OP! You should do great ET's tomorrow.

[Auditude2.0T]

Thanks for the kind words everyone!

[MeteorS4Ti]

Hmm.... so would you go with the software or a Non Res Milltek exhaust?? I'm so torn!

[Auditude2.0T]

Hmm.... so would you go with the software or a Non Res Milltek exhaust?? I'm so torn!

Tune for sure! Quiet sleeper > Loud stock car lol

[Audacious]

impressed. good for you to take the plunge and try this out.

[JRMSLINEA4]

Wow that is unreal for just a tune.

[Un1k]

Wow, great numbers :)

Just so ppl can compare, there was a guy who went from:

Stock: 283.7 HP, 277.5 Tq

to

APR Pulley tune: 343.3 HP, 329.8 Tq

But the power went down on the top end like a stock car would for some reason, so not really the best comparison..

For now I'm holding out on installing the Pulley kit..

[Stubek]

Wow, very cool, those curves look so nice and even, no bumps at all. Very impressed. That torque must be great fun.

[Auditude2.0T]

Again thanks for the good words.. Just for reference this is the same dyno that Tsivas27 has ran on, on his numerous dyno days documenting his modding journey!

[Bob This]

Wow wth lol that's a big gain lol I wonder if revo can tune the people that have the apr pulley

[Auditude2.0T]

I'll get another dyno sheet next week with torque as well. The torque for reference was 360wtq.

[audisarecool]

Am I reading something wrong? or are these the highest whp figures I've seen on a b8? 70hp delta?? Assuming 20% drivetrain loss that puts it at ~480chp/450tq.. I may be jumping ship.

[Auditude2.0T]

^ compared to every B8 S4 that has dynoed on this dyno and there has been a lot I think this is the highest a car has done on 93 :)

[Waxxon]

Great numbers!

Will be looking forward to your 1/4 mi times [cool]

[Auditude2.0T]

Great numbers!

Will be looking forward to your 1/4 mi times [cool]

Thanks me too [:D] [>_<]!!!!

[BLACKS4-10]

excellent numbers not to mention 75+hp gain at wheels for $1100 plus free program switcher[up]

[Un1k]

Good luck! Hope your numbers tmr will be so grt that I would switch tunes lol..

[r32breeze]

Nice numbers. Do you think the car will hit 400whp with intake and exhaust? By the way did you try launch control? Did the chip change anything at launch? To be more specific does your car launch control launches at 3000 rpm or ~3800 rpm after the tune...

[TCHUN003]

Awesome and congrats...so you still have the B8A4?

[misc720]

By the way did you try launch control? Did the chip change anything at launch? To be more specific does your car launch control launches at 3000 rpm or ~3800 rpm after the tune...

+1 this is something I'm very interested to know. The revo car we saw at the strip today was a 2010 so it didn't have LC.

edit: I just realized OP is a 2010 so no LC

[iraudi]

very very impressive 70+ ponies for $1100.

[Teamnct4]

That's very impressive. After seeing these numbers with just a tune, I Can't wait to get rid of my a4 and get into an s4.

[L0U]

strong result for sure. that must be a 3rd gear pull to get 387 though eh?

[Auditude2.0T]

strong result for sure. that must be a 3rd gear pull to get 387 though eh?

It was 4th gear. This is the same dyno that close to a dozen S4's have run on.

[Fonzie@DipYourCar]

387 in 4th..? geeze, that's-a one spicy meat-a-ball

[IvanS4]

Wow, those are great results. My car goes in for the Revo tune on Wednesday - I'll see if I can get some numbers as well.

[madmadS4]

Wow wth lol that's a big gain lol I wonder if revo can tune the people that have the apr pulley

The APR pulley will try to disable the Revo tune for sure...

OK seriously they should work together. The APR pulley simply changes up the gearing ratio resulting in greater boost. The Revo tune should have maps to handle those boost levels. It might not be optimized, but the two mods really should still be additive.

[iraudi]

what dyno hp are people showing with the apr pulley? I am sure that same dyno has been pulled on with this.. maybe it would be good to compare. 387WHP Revo Stage 1 vs APR Stage 2? 388WHP from the APR webpage. Please correct me if i am wrong...

[Un1k]

what dyno hp are people showing with the apr pulley? I am sure that same dyno has been pulled on with this.. maybe it would be good to compare. 387WHP Revo Stage 1 vs APR Stage 2? 388WHP from the APR webpage. Please correct me if i am wrong...

Yea, and their dyno # are more on the optimistic side too.

They show 327 AWHP/TQ for stock

[jran76]

First, let me say that I am not a big fan of comparing dyno runs from different cars. With that said, I am going to do it any way....

That particular dyno has a lot of runs with stock and APR tuned cars. Most stock cars seem to be in the 311 range. Most APR 93 tuned cars seem to be in the mid-350's, and most APR 93 tuned cars with intakes seem to be in the mid-360's. To get 387 on that same dyno with only a tune is pretty impressive regardless of any potential differences.

I could not find a reliable final numbers on this same dyno with an APR pulley, so I am not sure where it would fall in this....

[Auditude2.0T]

Just ran [email protected] with a 1.831 60'

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd440/Auditude20T/345ebfe9.jpg

93 octane. 4231lbs full weight. I can post videos when I get home. Only difference from when I ran the 13.1 is the 93 tune that's it. Very similar weather conditions.

[jran76]

Wow, nice ET and trap. Your car seems to be pretty strong regardless, and it likes the Revo tune....

[81bear]

Very nice run Congrats!

Don't know if you posted it but what track are you running at?

[trinacria]

Awesome Pete, congrats, sorry I couldn't be there.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Auditude2.0T]

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd440/Auditude20T/88b4faac.jpg

[Norm_S4]

http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd440/Auditude20T/88b4faac.jpg

Did you report to room 104 for incorrect car numbers?

Joking really and incredible numbers... now I hate having to wait for spring. According to those numbers and the reported WHP the tune is pulling, we're in RS territory here.

[Kay15]

Not bad at all.. Maybe Revo is using some special Sauce.. do they have to crack open the ECU box as well? So with a Pulley and added increase in boost and hitting boost sooner they should be able to put out 400whp on 93 tune on 100 octane map they could get 415whp or so. It really is only a diff of about 10whp though but every pony counts I guess. Im impressed.

[A4A4A4]

Wow, hats off to Revo, those great numbers are now being backed by tangible results.

[madmadS4]

Just ran [email protected] with a 1.831 60'

93 octane. 4231lbs full weight. I can post videos when I get home. Only difference from when I ran the 13.1 is the 93 tune that's it. Very similar weather conditions.

pretty heavy car there..

[Ray Khan]

Awesome run...might have sold me on this tune. What was your trap when you were stock?

[atombomb33]

Nearly +7mph trap speed is f'ing legit. That totally backs up the +70whp gain you saw on the dyno. Nice work. Thanks for being a guinea pig.

[AUDI A5]

Nice run. Congrats. Running 12.4 at 4231# is very impressive. Thats heavy, is that really what these cars weigh, wow! My mustang drag car only weighed 2850 with me in it and I ran 11.0's at 115 all day long with only 300 rwhp. What a difference weight makes, for every 100# its about a tenth, gotta put the car on a diet, lol.

Again nice job.

[AUDI A5]

Thanks for being a guinea pig

Yeah really. When can we get ours......[s4]

[Jones2012s4]

I am impressed. I am new to the Audi world coming from a sport tuner car. and 1200$(said and done cost) for these figures is quite the value. Can't wait to see some more results before I make any decisions.

Congrats!

[:)]

[Leor604]

Nicely done. Same car, same dyno, same track really lends some credibility to your results.

Hopefully your car is not a freak and others will see similar gains. For those of us who have not yet taken the plunge, these new tunes are very exciting news.

[Waxxon]

Great run! This tune is looking better and better...

[B8 Phantom S4]

It's getting harder and harder to wait for GIAC's results to be released.

Fighting the urge to jump on the Revo deal....

Much respect to Revo's approach to posting on this forum. No low blows to their competition, despite their marred reputation. They've redeemed themselves, in my eyes at least.

[Auditude2.0T]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgp2BNBcjoU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[NJAUDI1]

Wow, i only dyno'd 373hp on that same dyno, and i have a pulley, exhaust and intake. Congrats.

[Auditude2.0T]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiDneYlL70A&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Auditude2.0T]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtLKuI5GcwY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[sciblades]

good job, those number make sense...

[RavinJetta]

Awesome numbers. My tuning choice i becoming easier now.

[Auditude2.0T]

I also have logs of timing, boost and maf. I will post later on when I get home! Enjoying a nice dinner in honor of S :D

[Ray Khan]

I think you should run 100 octane and see what happens :)

[Auditude2.0T]

I think you should run 100 octane and see what happens :)

Once Revo releases the 100 tune I'll do it :)

[Kay15]

Solid gains.. I am hoping we can see the compareable data for the APR Stage 1 if anyone has those same logs but I think for PSI we get around the same 81Bear said he got 15 on vagcom. Wondering if you would be able to do an intake or exhaust upgrade probably intake to see if your gains change much because from what Primtime 81bear and myself have finally figured out is that the intake probably makes the most noticeable difference other than a tune.

[Voltrons_Head]

Quality times. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is now the fastest stage 1 run I believe.

[IvanS4]

Once Revo releases the 100 tune I'll do it :)

I thought that 100 octane / race tune is out and part of the $1099 sale they have going on now. AFAIK, you should just be able to use the SPS to change to that tune, after filling the tank w/100, of course.

[Auditude2.0T]

I thought that 100 octane / race tune is out and part of the $1099 sale they have going on now. AFAIK, you should just be able to use the SPS to change to that tune, after filling the tank w/100, of course.

To my knowledge there is no 100 tune. I will try and get in touch with Revo and ask them but I'm 99% sure it's only Stock/91/93 on the car.

[Auditude2.0T]

Solid gains.. I am hoping we can see the compareable data for the APR Stage 1 if anyone has those same logs but I think for PSI we get around the same 81Bear said he got 15 on vagcom. Wondering if you would be able to do an intake or exhaust upgrade probably intake to see if your gains change much because from what Primtime 81bear and myself have finally figured out is that the intake probably makes the most noticeable difference other than a tune.

Thanks and that's what I'm thinking about now. Ill probably do the AWE intake and eventually a pulley when/if it becomes available.

[Auditude2.0T]

Quality times. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is now the fastest stage 1 run I believe.

I believe so, I think Fonzie went faster on 93 and Stage 1 but he has an exhaust/testpipes/intake where as I'm tune only.

[Auditude2.0T]

Wow, i only dyno'd 373hp on that same dyno, and i have a pulley, exhaust and intake. Congrats.

Thanks man! That was the dyno day I missed. Hopefully we can get another going for the spring so we can dyno all the cars the same day!

[Auditude2.0T]

good job, those number make sense...

Thanks! I was excited to see the 12.4 after the 387whp dyno yesterday. Was a great weekend for the S4!

[Auditude2.0T]

Nicely done. Same car, same dyno, same track really lends some credibility to your results.

Hopefully your car is not a freak and others will see similar gains. For those of us who have not yet taken the plunge, these new tunes are very exciting news.

Well my car dynoed 311whp stock and 13.1 in the 1/4 which is on par with all the other stock S4's so I don't see why others won't see the same results :) I'm really excited to see more people do runs, it's awesome to see these cars running what they are.

[tsivas27]

Solid gains.. I am hoping we can see the compareable data for the APR Stage 1 if anyone has those same logs but I think for PSI we get around the same 81Bear said he got 15 on vagcom. Wondering if you would be able to do an intake or exhaust upgrade probably intake to see if your gains change much because from what Primtime 81bear and myself have finally figured out is that the intake probably makes the most noticeable difference other than a tune.

The max I saw in boost with my APR stage I ecu tune was 2019 hPa or about 14.58 psi (vag com and boost gauge) but my stage I was running very strong. I don't believe any Stage I cars were running 15 psi. 15-16 psi was seen with the pulley upgrade cars. My stage I+ was running dead even (third gear runs) with a stage 2+ B8 (apexit), on several runs we did before I was Stage II.

I helped logged the Revo car (as I am the local Vag com logging junkie). I don't know the details about the tune.. was told it was 93.

Boost was pretty similar to my stage I APR.

3000 rpms - 11.1 psi
4000 rpms - 12.8 psi
5000 rpms- 13.01 psi
6000 rpms- 13.52 psi
6900 rpms- 14.13 psi

The Revo car did request 2000 hPA or 14.3 PSI from 2500 RPms- up and ~15.5 psi up top though, something I don't think the Stasis car requested below. The bypass valve also was completely shut from 2200 rpms to 6900 rpms.

The boost was on par with what I was seeing with my own car logs when I was Stage I. Trinacria's DSG APR Stage I boost levels were a tad lower with all the logs I compiled for him. He never hit more than 13.5 psi. Primetime also never hit high boost numbers (over 14 psi) with his Stage I when I was looking at his data logs he sent me. We have been sharing data logs for a few months. There is so much variance in boost from every car I have logged, depending on weather conditions, weight in car (1 or 2 passengers), even simple pedal pressure to avoid kick down in the DSG.

The major differences I saw with the Revo Stage I logs that stuck out were in timing, A/F ratios and MAF values. I was seeing 18-19 degrees of advance with the APR stage I tune in the upper RPMs, and the Revo was a little more aggressive with an ignition angle of 21-23 degrees up top. There was also almost zero timing pull from all 6 cylinders on the timing logs we did. I logged my APR Stage 2 100 file last night and I was seeing 23-25 degrees of ignition advance up top. MAF values also are very good for the Revo car. On par with my AWE/modified intake numbers that I have seen increase from my stock runs. And he has a stock air box. Again- I don't know how MAF values can be increased or manipulated through computer management- but they are very good numbers and helped hint to me the night before the dyno that the car was gonna dyno high.

The dyno run also confirmed a much richer mixture than the APR tune (I was seeing 12.6-1 A/F ratios IIRC). The Revo car was running a 11.3-1 A/F ratio IIRC on the dyno. Also I noticed that all three runs were right on each other. You could basically overlay each graph on the other perfectly. I did not see that with the DSG car at his stage I dyno day. I did see that with my car when I did stage I dyno.

I have driven the car. Pulls very well. I still see the dang hangup in 1-2 shift with the DSG though, so it's seen in this tune too. My run- the DSG held 1st gear at 7K for a good half second before it shifted into second.

The dyno was legit. NO pulley was added to this car as some have questioned from hearing and reading some stuff. 93 octane pump gas was also used I believe. I could care less about the "optimistic dyno" comments I read on this forum, audiworld, audirevolution.net.... from these dyno runs and the other ones that were done with stock, tuned, and APR stage II cars. I am not really looking at peak numbers but deltas between runs and also after having compiled a good database with several B8 S4s in different configurations having run on No Limit's Dyno... a pretty good comparison basis. Granted temp comes into play but still.... It is plenty of interesting info to have with over 8 different mod situations compiled. We will continue to use this "optimistic" dyno to keep the excellent comparison compilation going.

The runs today were also legit. We will keep Englishtown as the strip of choice, at least for the guys that are interested in running the quarter.

I also had a chance to take the car down the track. Gopro in car videos, out of car videos, 4 witnesses, timeslips, receipts for food eaten in area... u can ask for more proof if u want [:D]as some probably want after the KevKev fiasco. [confused]

DA today at the track was outright ridiculous today though. -1300 feet I heard the announcer say which definitely helped with the awesome times. 40 degrees F at time of first run. The times did slow down from the 1st to 4th run and temps did play a part with the slowing times. I ran a 12.67 @112 with the Revo car I believe as the last run. There were also a few 12.5s as runs 2 and 3. I believe the range was 12.41-12.67 for the runs today.

There are a few of us with B8s in the area. We are trying to use the same dyno, same track, same data logging sites to keep things pretty consistent.

The stock (13.1 ET/106 trap) to tuned time for the Revo Stage I was really good. ~113 trap speed is really rolling for a stock intake/exhaust car.

Trincaria ran his stage I car october 16th.. 12.78 @108 was his best time I believe. DA that day was 888 ft time of his run I believe. 61 degrees temp.

I love my APR setup. It's very smooth and I have had zero issues. Results today were excellent for Revo but I am in no way swayed or jumping ship. I am sure APR will be releasing a more aggressive 93 tune (version 2) soon to compete with this. The two tunes are both solid and excellent options.

Stay tuned for some interesting highway runs of Revo Stage I vs APR Stage II [;)]

[jeffc31337]

Great results! I'd love to see an overlay with one of the APR guys that has run on the same dyno. I'm also very interested to see complete logs.

For comparison reasons I will throw up my stasis 91 logs. Obviously a lot less timing as it's a 91 tune but it doesn't surprise me that Revo is running more timing with a richer AFR to keep temps down. Since the amount of boost available is fixed there are only so many ways to make more power.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9076/b8s4stasisstockhardware.jpg

Auditude: if you PM me or want to send me the logs I'd be happy to graph it up for you since I already have the excel templates made!

[phillips2024]

.....Stay tuned for some interesting highway runs of Revo Stage I vs APR Stage II [;)][/FONT]

^cant wait!


awesome writeup. thank you for posting.

[Auditude2.0T]

^ Thanks for the informative post Tsivas. Both cars are definently running solid! I'm thrilled with my Revo tune and stoked to see some more results as we go along in the tuning stages! It's awesome to see results with these cars regardless of a tune. I never thought in a million years just a tune on this heavy beast would get it down the track in 12.4 seconds! Thinking back when this car came out I never knew we'd be seeing what were seeing. It's like re-living the B5 days. Except with these cars the stock blower is much more capable then the stock K03's were in the B5!

[Auditude2.0T]

Me and Tsivas also did vag com acceleration tests as well. Vag com read 12.5@113 and 0-60 in 4.1 seconds. That was with two people in the car and a half a tank. So it's nice to see the accuracy of vag com!

[Auditude2.0T]

Correction: Just spoke to Revo. The 100 tune is available now, I wasn't aware so that's good to hear for next time!

[81bear]

Correction: Just spoke to Revo. The 100 tune is available now, I wasn't aware so that's good to hear for next time!

Do you not have the Serial Port Switch (SPS)?

[sworksone]

Thanks for sharing the impressive results. I'm tempted to jump on the Revo tune since my car will have some downtime before and after Christmas but should probably wait to see what GIAC and Unitronic (which I heard is also imminent) are offering and what all of this does to pricing. But it is awfully tempting.

[nick71692]

I like the commentary in the one video "Whatever it is it runs good". Obviously not normal course to see an audi running healthy times. Well done!

[Auditude2.0T]

Do you not have the Serial Port Switch (SPS)?



I do but I thought it was Stock/91/93 I didn't know the 100 was available. So disregard my last post before, whoever orders now will indeed get the 100 tune.

[Proogz]

Hey I called 12.4 ironically enough in the other revo thread.. This is def going to bring some noise around the forums..

Great time and dynos man! seems like I am closer to being sold to finally go and get a tune. Seems like Revo is the only tuner that I just have to send the ECU to once and can do everything else up here in Canada when I need to. Gunna wait to see what GIAC says tho then make a decision..


Awsome job!

[Auditude2.0T]

I like the commentary in the one video "Whatever it is it runs good". Obviously not normal course to see an audi running healthy times. Well done!

Thanks man! Yeah it was pretty funny because two of the runs we're against muscle cars. The time slip above was against a full bolt on 6.1 Challenger on 16" wheels in the rear with slicks and a loud ass exhaust. The S4 walks away without making noise lol while the Challenger was screaming. But not to totally diss the 6.1 bc my friends SRT8 Jeep on 8psi supercharger did run 11.8 today with a 1.6 60'!

[jeffc31337]

I do but I thought it was Stock/91/93 I didn't know the 100 was available. So disregard my last post before, whoever orders now will indeed get the 100 tune.

Does the SPS you have have individual adjustments for Boost, fuel and timing? If I remember there were two versions, one with the features I just described and another that just let you adjust between stock and a predefined map.

If it's the former(and the functionality works) a user can just tweak the timing and fuel to adjust for octane.

[81bear]

I do but I thought it was Stock/91/93 I didn't know the 100 was available. So disregard my last post before, whoever orders now will indeed get the 100 tune.

So that means your car has the 100 map already?

[Auditude2.0T]

So that means your car has the 100 map already?

Yes I do. I will redyno with 100 file and race gas soon. Again revo just notified me of 100 file in follow up correspondence emails we just had. The car was run on 93 octane with the 93 file. I was not aware that I had the 100 file but I wanted to do a pump gas run anyways so really doesn't make a difference for me. I will dyno again soon on 100 to compare. *

[IvanS4]

Yes I do. I will redyno with 100 file and race gas soon. Again revo just notified me of 100 file in follow up correspondence emails we just had. The car was run on 93 octane with the 93 file. I was not aware that I had the 100 file but I wanted to do a pump gas run anyways so really doesn't make a difference for me. I will dyno again soon on 100 to compare. *

Awesome, looking forward to it. As always, it's great for people to share results on new products.

[Auditude2.0T]

Awesome, looking forward to it. As always, it's great for people to share results on new products.

One of the main reasons I took the dive, I wanted to see what other tuners would be able to do with this car. I will be doing some more mods step by step aiming for 11's by March.

[misc720]

Does the SPS you have have individual adjustments for Boost, fuel and timing? If I remember there were two versions, one with the features I just described and another that just let you adjust between stock and a predefined map.

If it's the former(and the functionality works) a user can just tweak the timing and fuel to adjust for octane.

Gary from Revo showed us the SPS this weekend, and IIRC it has a rotary knob with positions for "stock", "perf 1" (91), "perf 2" (93), "race" (100), and then it also had a couple other other settings like "theft" I think. You set the knob to whatever position, then plug it in and it makes a few chimes to confirm that the program is switched, takes a few seconds.

[Auditude2.0T]

Gary from Revo showed us the SPS this weekend, and IIRC it has a rotary knob with positions for "stock", "perf 1" (91), "perf 2" (93), "race" (100), and then it also had a couple other other settings like "theft" I think. You set the knob to whatever position, then plug it in and it makes a few chimes to confirm that the program is switched, takes a few seconds.

Exactly!

[81bear]

Yes I do. I will redyno with 100 file and race gas soon. Again revo just notified me of 100 file in follow up correspondence emails we just had. The car was run on 93 octane with the 93 file. I was not aware that I had the 100 file but I wanted to do a pump gas run anyways so really doesn't make a difference for me. I will dyno again soon on 100 to compare. *

Good stuff...can't wait to see the results on the dyno and at the strip!

[Don Supreme]

Very nice.

[Auditude2.0T]

Good stuff...can't wait to see the results on the dyno and at the strip!

Me too! Since the track is closed now I'll have the dyno to start and more 1/4 mile runs in March!

[tomh009]

Gary from Revo showed us the SPS this weekend, and IIRC it has a rotary knob with positions for "stock", "perf 1" (91), "perf 2" (93), "race" (100), and then it also had a couple other other settings like "theft" I think. You set the knob to whatever position, then plug it in and it makes a few chimes to confirm that the program is switched, takes a few seconds.

So what do you plug it into? The ECU?

I take it that Revo doesn't have an option to use the cruise control stalk to select programs, a la APR?

[Auditude2.0T]

So what do you plug it into? The ECU?

I take it that Revo doesn't have an option to use the cruise control stalk to select programs, a la APR?

Small device that plugs into the OBD-II port.

[ilspazzaneve]

Hey, congrats. Good to see more stock intake/exhaust runs, hope to beat you to the 11s with that next year, lol.

In the other thread I said better than 12.5@110 for the tune to be impressive, and your car delivered.

Did your car hang up on the 1-2 shift when you did the run?

[Auditude2.0T]

Hey, congrats. Good to see more stock intake/exhaust runs, hope to beat you to the 11s with that next year, lol.

In the other thread I said better than 12.5@110 for the tune to be impressive, and your car delivered.

Did your car hang up on the 1-2 shift when you did the run?

In my three runs it did not, my dad did two runs one of his did and Tsivas27 did and he said it had a hang up. I don't know if you can call it a "hang up" it's more like it hits the limiter for a second but the car did that stock as well. You can see in the inside video I posted that it almost hits the limiter for a second. If that's what we'd consider a hang up I guess it can be called that.

[Auditude2.0T]

Hey, congrats. Good to see more stock intake/exhaust runs, hope to beat you to the 11s with that next year, lol.

In the other thread I said better than 12.5@110 for the tune to be impressive, and your car delivered.

Did your car hang up on the 1-2 shift when you did the run?

I'm down for a race to the 11's :D I'd love to do it just stage 1! Maybe Intake/Testpipes and X pipe on 100

[ilspazzaneve]

^^ I like the idea of a "stock appearing" class. Looks and sounds like a stock car, with peelers even. Can't see the tune, nor the pulley, nor the 100 octane in the tank. Assuming you get a pulley from REVO next year, the race is on... I'm sure my car has 11s in it, as it is, and it seems like yours does too.

[Auditude2.0T]

^^ I like the idea of a "stock appearing" class. Looks and sounds like a stock car, with peelers even. Can't see the tune, nor the pulley, nor the 100 octane in the tank. Assuming you get a pulley from REVO next year, the race is on... I'm sure my car has 11s in it, as it is, and it seems like yours does too.

Yeah definently. My real goal (not sure how realistic but should be possible based on the numbers so far) would be 11.9 with just Tune/Pulley/Intake on 93 but I'd prob need the 100 at minimum to do that.

[CAA]

This is great news. Just to be clear, did you pull the ECU yourself ND send it directly to Revo? I checked their site earlier this week and couldn't find a Revo distributor close to me.

If that's how you did it, could you please post Gary's info or PM it to me? I've got $1100 burning a hole in my pocket. : )

[Auditude2.0T]

This is great news. Just to be clear, did you pull the ECU yourself ND send it directly to Revo? I checked their site earlier this week and couldn't find a Revo distributor close to me.

If that's how you did it, could you please post Gary's info or PM it to me? I've got $1100 burning a hole in my pocket. : )

Contact Supreme Power Parts and they will assist you further and set it all up through the mail :)

[madmadS4]

Small device that plugs into the OBD-II port.

Sounds nice. More user friendly than counting off the presses on a stalk. Still easily hidden I presume because you can just pull it off before heading to a dealer service dept.

[Auditude2.0T]

Sounds nice. More user friendly than counting off the presses on a stalk. Still easily hidden I presume because you can just pull it off before heading to a dealer service dept.

Actually you plug it in for literally 30 seconds and pull it out. When I installed the ecu all I did was put the Sps on 93 tune plugged it in, it made the confirmation tone and I pulled it out and put it away :)

[Zed 2.0]

Actually you plug it in for literally 30 seconds and pull it out. When I installed the ecu all I did was put the Sps on 93 tune plugged it in, it made the confirmation tone and I pulled it out and put it away :)

Any idea if this triggers the flash counter on the ECU, or is it switching between data that's already been written to the ECU? It would raise eyebrows to go to the dealer with a flash counter reading in the teens.

[MeteorS4Ti]

I'm sold. Do you happen to know where I can find a dealer in South Florida?

[Kay15]

As long as they do a good job of closing the ecu back up and they cant catch it like they did mine they cant prove it if it is locked out unless they check the burn counter like others have mentioned.

I did 12.4 on 93 map with pulley stage 2. So I am very impressed that you were able to get 12.4 on stage 1 with revo. Then again I think the pulley helps slightly more low end to help get boost faster which explains how I was getting 1.6-1.7 60ft times.

I think APR is still doing their magic and needed a little competition just to set things right and turned it up. Also we must know APR could have been conservative just because they felt it was safer. Then again Revo may have cranked a few values up an pulled some more timing did testing for a longer period of time to figure that the increased performance was still safe. hmmm... I cant wait to see a few of us lined up side by side!! Forget Dynos we need raw same day rolling and dead stop pulls !

[Auditude2.0T]

Any idea if this triggers the flash counter on the ECU, or is it switching between data that's already been written to the ECU? It would raise eyebrows to go to the dealer with a flash counter reading in the teens.

Switching between data I believe..

[Auditude2.0T]

I'm sold. Do you happen to know where I can find a dealer in South Florida?

Contact Supreme Power Parts and they willl help you they took care of everything for me over phone/email. Super happy with the experience.

[Auditude2.0T]

As long as they do a good job of closing the ecu back up and they cant catch it like they did mine they cant prove it if it is locked out unless they check the burn counter like others have mentioned.

I did 12.4 on 93 map with pulley stage 2. So I am very impressed that you were able to get 12.4 on stage 1 with revo. Then again I think the pulley helps slightly more low end to help get boost faster which explains how I was getting 1.6-1.7 60ft times.

I think APR is still doing their magic and needed a little competition just to set things right and turned it up. Also we must know APR could have been conservative just because they felt it was safer. Then again Revo may have cranked a few values up an pulled some more timing did testing for a longer period of time to figure that the increased performance was still safe. hmmm... I cant wait to see a few of us lined up side by side!! Forget Dynos we need raw same day rolling and dead stop pulls !

Runs coming soon!

[Pgr1990]

Actually you plug it in for literally 30 seconds and pull it out. When I installed the ecu all I did was put the Sps on 93 tune plugged it in, it made the confirmation tone and I pulled it out and put it away :)


Glad to hear you're the kind of guy that pulls out after 30 seconds [;)]

[Auditude2.0T]

Glad to hear you're the kind of guy that pulls out after 30 seconds [;)]

Rofllll

[Kay15]

Runs coming soon!

In a 'closed course' proffesional environment yes absolutley. It would be nice if we could go Apr Stage 1 vs Revo Stage 1 most things similar. I guess we will be able to calculate our own balance of the equation. I see your a big Revo/APR guy based on the last few cars ou have had nice.

[ahcow]

Competition is good, can't wait to see more REVO results.

[IanVr6]

Hey REVO, give me a trial of your tune and I will compare it with my baseline stock dyno. Did 288whp on a DynoDynamics.

[riegeraudi]

First, let me say that I am not a big fan of comparing dyno runs from different cars. With that said, I am going to do it any way....

That particular dyno has a lot of runs with stock and APR tuned cars. Most stock cars seem to be in the 311 range. Most APR 93 tuned cars seem to be in the mid-350's, and most APR 93 tuned cars with intakes seem to be in the mid-360's. To get 387 on that same dyno with only a tune is pretty impressive regardless of any potential differences.

I could not find a reliable final numbers on this same dyno with an APR pulley, so I am not sure where it would fall in this....

Don't forget APR uses a hub dyno that is the reason for APR numbers being higher along with most likely APR has proper venting. This was mentioned in another thread. So it really is hard to compare APR numbers with other dyno''s. You are better off comparing dyno's of APR tune with other owners of APR tuned S4's.

[tomh009]

Sounds nice. More user friendly than counting off the presses on a stalk. Still easily hidden I presume because you can just pull it off before heading to a dealer service dept.

More user-friendly, I expect. But I do like the stalk method as there is no extra hardware to carry around, and I can do it from inside the car without opening the hood. (But maybe that's possible with the Revo dongle, too?)

[A4A4A4]

More user-friendly, I expect. But I do like the stalk method as there is no extra hardware to carry around, and I can do it from inside the car without opening the hood. (But maybe that's possible with the Revo dongle, too?)

You don't open the hood. The OBD-II port is in the car, right next to your left knee. Also, the SPS fits perfectly in the underseat storage compartment in the B7 (not sure about B8) so I just leave it there, easy peasy.

[tomh009]

You don't open the hood. The OBD-II port is in the car, right next to your left knee. Also, the SPS fits perfectly in the underseat storage compartment in the B7 (not sure about B8) so I just leave it there, easy peasy.
Thanks. Doesn't seem like as big a deal as I feared, then.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Checking in from Italy to say I love seeing this thread. I knew all the bad mouthing on Revo would be silenced, now I just wonder how many APR peeps will be jumping ship seeing a simple "chipped" only Revo car running times and posting power figures like APR cars with more mods (pulleys, exhaust, intakes, perhaps race gas) are doing. It is great to see another option out there and that APR is not the only people on the block that can tune a car. I will go ahead and quote a previous reply of mine in the original Revo thread that was getting shit on, pretty ironic exactly what I said has now come to fruition.


I think it is funny/interesting how all these people are anti anything but APR, but in other parts of the forum people would buy anything but APR (B6/7 S4 JHM, B5 S4 EPL or VAST) with APR always coming in last behind the privously mentioned along with GIAC, Tapp/Eurodyne and Unitronic. Funny how that all works. I would give other tuners a shot because often times, there are better options out there I learned that myself. And possibly at a better price point once there is no longer a monopoly going on in the B8 S4 world.


You are missing the point. This isn't about what is going on now, people like APR because they are the only one to like since there wasn't another option. Once people start running other tunes this will be shown that APR offers nothing over the next guy. Back in the day when the time then was "now" there was nothing special about what APR offered other than a highly priced product because everyone knows APR is real proud of their stuff. Back then when a 2000-2002 S4 was new (and still today) it was depressing, an example being an off the shelf AWE GIAC stage 3 S4 equaled in performance on pump fuel to an APR stage 3 running 100 octane, I have personal experience with this. Chipped A4s on race gas running comparable to others on pump I have experience with this as well and then the B6 S4 platform again, when they were new and APR was focusing on them, nothing special. Now the present day with the B8 being what is new anything APR has done will look great because nobody else has had anything to compare to it and it is without question that once the other tuners offer products for it APR will once again be nothing special but will continue to be proud of their overpriced products.

Thumbs up to Revo for stepping up their game and giving what looks to be a great option. [up]

[IvanS4]

So what do you plug it into? The ECU?

I take it that Revo doesn't have an option to use the cruise control stalk to select programs, a la APR?

As I understand it, APR patented the use of the cruise control stock to make software changes. All other vendors have to use a different method and therefore use the OBDII port.

[phillips2024]

I would much rather have a unit that plugs into the OBD-II port

point, revo

[Rabbit222]

Checking in from Italy to say I love seeing this thread. I knew all the bad mouthing on Revo would be silenced, now I just wonder how many APR peeps will be jumping ship seeing a simple "chipped" only Revo car running times and posting power figures like APR cars with more mods (pulleys, exhaust, intakes, perhaps race gas) are doing. It is great to see another option out there and that APR is not the only people on the block that can tune a car. I will go ahead and quote a previous reply of mine in the original Revo thread that was getting shit on, pretty ironic exactly what I said has now come to fruition.





Thumbs up to Revo for stepping up their game and giving what looks to be a great option. [up]

Is that perhaps the thread i started that went pear shaped? if so i have to agree with all that you have said...i'm smiling rather broadly at all of the comments. Now i hope that the guys harping on about things that happened 10yrs ago can put it to rest.

My S4 and RS3 will be mapped later this month, can't fooking wait!

Revo....Go play!

[Jason@Addict]

Wow Revo - double the gains of APR?!? Well done.

[Akrion]

I as well as most of the Audi enthusiasts on this thread as quite excited about the introduction of 2nd ECU tuner on the B8 3.0T platform. I would like to ask given the results/gains ... how would the reliability be affected? One would assume that if the gains are not as big like those done by APR less stress would be put on the engine therefore the reliability would be better no?

I am do not have any ECU tune yet so I am very impatient to get one but I would be quite interested to have an idea of the tuners (APR/Revo) previous reliability history etc. Any issues that have happen on Revo tune and how did Revo take care of them?

[vdubjetta02]

there were so many revo haters on the b8 s4 platform for over the past 2 years, it's good to shut them up with actual dyno results.

Hope you are enjoying your car! With that much power it would be hard not to.

[81bear]

Not trying to be a hater as I think it's fantastic that Revo has come out with a tune as it will only help to improve the platform!

With that being said the sample size is still way to small to draw any definitive conclusions. Remember, there has been a total of TWO runs down the 1320, a very impressive 12.4 and 13.2 and at this point I wouldn't consider either to be the norm. Base on the replies to this thread a number of us are going the Revo route which is awesome!

I just hope that you all continue to share with the B8 community your result good/bad so that we can all benefit!

[Auditude2.0T]

Not trying to be a hater as I think it's fantastic that Revo has come out with a tune as it will only help to improve the platform!

With that being said the sample size is still way to small to draw any definitivTe conclusions. Remember, there has been a total of TWO runs down the 1320, a very impressive 12.4 and 13.2 and at this point I wouldn't consider either to be the norm. Base on the replies to this thread a number of us are going the Revo route which is awesome!

I just hope that you all continue to share with the B8 community your result good/bad so that we can all benefits!

The good thing is with my car I ran a 13.1 and put down 311whp which is dead on for other dsg cars on the track and dead on with numbers from a few other B8 S4's on that dyno. As for the tuned track numbers 3 different people drove the car and all the runs stayed between 12.4-12.5 range. I can't imagine another DSG S4 on 93 not being able to match my numbers.

[steve0827]

I'm waiting to hear more about the reliability of this tune.
A quick question though, what exactly is a program switcher? Does this mean being able to switch it back to stock so you can take it in for service?

[Auditude2.0T]

I'm waiting to hear more about the reliability of this tune.
A quick question though, what exactly is a program switcher? Does this mean being able to switch it back to stock so you can take it in for service?

Exactly, the ability to switch programs within seconds. I will post up a 2k mile write up and review to sum up the reliability!

[tomh009]

2K miles on one car isn't very long for reliability, though! Not that I am doubting this at the moment, but for sure it appears that Revo is pushing the engine considerably harder than APR.

[jeffc31337]

it appears that Revo is pushing the engine considerably harder than APR.

I dont' necessarily agree with this as I believe it's undetermined. More logs will be telling but it looks like REVO is using more timing and more fuel up top to make power which potentially lead to a cooler running engine even while it's making more power. I'm sure APR had reasons for tuning as it did. I also look forward to GIACS results. It's a good time for the b8 s4!

[richib86]

unless APR gives me a good reason to stay, i will jump ship to revo as soon as something pulley related surfaces

[Auditude2.0T]

unless APR gives me a good reason to stay, i will jump ship to revo as soon as something pulley related surfaces

Revo isn't too far out from a pulley release. I asked them about it and it will be released in a reasonable time. Rich if your ever on Long Island and you want a ride to make a decision throw me a PM.

[richib86]

Revo isn't too far out from a pulley release. I asked them about it and it will be released in a reasonable time. Rich if your ever on Long Island and you want a ride to make a decision throw me a PM.i might take you up on the offer pete, id like to do some pulls as well. i need to do the clutch on my car first tho. its so bad that i chatter on the stock clutch shifting into 1, 2, and 3. pretty sure i will end up with revo as i remember reading something about them being able to adjust torque limits which can help the test pipe/header guys

[81bear]

unless APR gives me a good reason to stay, i will jump ship to revo as soon as something pulley related surfaces

I agree 100%...Just want a bigger sample size to ensure the these results are the norm!

[richib86]

I agree 100%...Just want a bigger sample size to ensure the these results are the norm!i feel like that will be the case, revo has always been on the aggressive side. my only concern is revo tunes popping motors... ive been there and done that

[81bear]

The good thing is with my car I ran a 13.1 and put down 311whp which is dead on for other dsg cars on the track and dead on with numbers from a few other B8 S4's on that dyno. As for the tuned track numbers 3 different people drove the car and all the runs stayed between 12.4-12.5 range. I can't imagine another DSG S4 on 93 not being able to match my numbers.

That is a great representation of the consistency of your car but it does not increase the sample size. As I said in a recent post I'm more than will to give Revo or GIAC or whoever a shot but I need a much larger sample size before I make the switch.

[clochner]

Finally got caught up on this thread. I was skeptical @ first but now am glad to see B8 owners have another (and soon a third) option for tunes. Not only that, but it looks like Revo's Stage I is both cheaper and more aggressive than what APR offers. Kudos to Revo, and congrats on your passes, Auditude! [up]

[81bear]

i feel like that will be the case, revo has always been on the aggressive side. my only concern is revo tunes popping motors... ive been there and done that

Yes I remember you commenting on replacing an engine on your RS4 (I believe). Didn't know it was a Revo tune that caused the problem though.

[tomh009]

Revo isn't too far out from a pulley release. I asked them about it and it will be released in a reasonable time. Rich if your ever on Long Island and you want a ride to make a decision throw me a PM.

Hmmm. In the other thread RevoTechnik-GM said this about pulley support:

Now that one is definitely in the R&D phase.

Again, I don't have an ETA that I feel comfortable sharing at this point because our objective is not based on simply getting a product to market, but based on a criteria we put in place for power, drive ability, reliability, etc...

Based on that, it didn't sound exactly imminent. But maybe you know more than the rest of us do, based on your conversation with them?

[Alex'S4]

i feel like that will be the case, revo has always been on the aggressive side. my only concern is revo tunes popping motors... ive been there and done that

This is my biggest fear getting into a new tune for our cars. I dont want motor issues down the road after tuning the car after only 5k miles.

[richib86]

Yes I remember you commenting on replacing an engine on your RS4 (I believe). Didn't know it was a Revo tune that caused the problem though.yea it did get replaced, im not placing blame on the tune itself, there was a combination a factors that went into it. but the motor lean seized. with the new motor tho, revo did a KILLER stage 2 tune for me that was truly awesome but was not a production tune. before JHM entered the rs4 game, it was one of the stronger tuned rs4's

[FourRingRider]

unless APR gives me a good reason to stay, i will jump ship to revo as soon as something pulley related surfaces

+1... I called APR this morning and was told they weren't even aware of the Revo tune and that they don't care anyhow. [rolleyes] I quoted the numbers that people are getting from the Revo tune and was told that if the otherwise stock Stage 1 tune is truly putting out those numbers that it simply isn't safe for the engine. Curious, I asked why wouldn't it be safe, and was not given any answer with any substance. Something about the exhaust diameter not being large enough. But then I said well if that's the case how come APR doesn't require the exhaust on their stage 2 (ecu + pulley only) and was given more useless info. It all seemed like pure speculation...

[richib86]

they weren't even aware of the Revo tune and that they don't care anyhow. [rolleyes] HAHAHA not what i've heard through the grape vine...

[madmadS4]

+1... I called APR this morning and was told they weren't even aware of the Revo tune and that they don't care anyhow. [rolleyes] I quoted the numbers that people are getting from the Revo tune and was told that if the otherwise stock Stage 1 tune is truly putting out those numbers that it simply isn't safe for the engine. Curious, I asked why wouldn't it be safe, and was not given any answer with any substance. Something about the exhaust diameter not being large enough. But then I said well if that's the case how come APR doesn't require the exhaust on your stage 2 (ecu + pulley only) and was told that was different. It all seemed like pure speculation...

Performance without compromise - that is their motto. Any more performance and you compromise safety. Apparently its been drilled into the sales team. As far as who compromised... only time will tell.

[FourRingRider]

How does this Revo Stage 1 tune alone compare to a S4 with just a Pulley + APR tune?

[richib86]

How does this Revo Stage 1 tune alone compare to a S4 with just a Pulley + APR tune?you will find out very soon(also from another grape vine)

[clochner]

Performance without compromise - that is their motto. Any more performance and you compromise safety. Apparently its been drilled into the sales team. As far as who compromised... only time will tell.

Ya, reliability is SOO much more important to me than a few extra tenths in the 1/4 mile. I'm very happy I went w/ APR and have absolutely no plans to switch to some other company. Very satisfied w/ how my car sounds and performs.

[NWS4Guy]

I agree with Bear, in that a larger sampling is needed, the temps and DA certainly didn't hurt the numbers any for sure. If there is a big difference in the F:A that could easily perform exceptionally well in cold weather, and pull a MTM in hot weather due to engine failsafes, it all remains to be seen.


Performance without compromise - that is their motto. Any more performance and you compromise safety. Apparently its been drilled into the sales team. As far as who compromised... only time will tell.

We all know that APR has used their race car as not only a testbed over and above Stephen's car, but also to test as an accelerated life cycle. We know APR likely knows the limits of the engine from this public info. We don't know who else has extensively tested it and to what end (APR went through a few engines testing the race car limits - has anyone else pushed a car to failure?). There are a lot of what-if's, like is one tune or another more or less harmful to the engine or it's longevity? Something to possibly consider is that since APR potentially has a Stasis relationship, they went safer than more aggressive in order to appease Stasis from the potential of warranty issues. If so, perhaps (since there is no Stasis 93/100/race tune) now APR will readdress the tunes that are not 91 octane and beef them up?

Who knows, but definitely interesting times!

[Pworld]

oh yes. hopefully more real world data and testing will be out by the time i'm ready to tune in feb/march. but the price is definitely right!!

[Akrion]

oh yes. hopefully more real world data and testing will be out by the time i'm ready to tune in feb/march. but the price is definitely right!!

That is my "deadline" as well ...

[Auditude2.0T]

How does this Revo Stage 1 tune alone compare to a S4 with just a Pulley + APR tune?

I'm doing runs with my friend sometime this week :) APR Stage 2+ Intake/Pulley/Tune

[pako88268]

Hope I'm getting numbers that are close to yours =)
Will get my Revo Stage 1 on thursday will post up some result after the map.

[theKB]

Those numbers are very impressive indeed but given my past experience with revo they are a company I would never do business with again.



We all know that APR has used their race car as not only a testbed over and above Stephen's car, but also to test as an accelerated life cycle. We know APR likely knows the limits of the engine from this public info. We don't know who else has extensively tested it and to what end (APR went through a few engines testing the race car limits - has anyone else pushed a car to failure?). There are a lot of what-if's, like is one tune or another more or less harmful to the engine or it's longevity? Something to possibly consider is that since APR potentially has a Stasis relationship, they went safer than more aggressive in order to appease Stasis from the potential of warranty issues. If so, perhaps (since there is no Stasis 93/100/race tune) now APR will readdress the tunes that are not 91 octane and beef them up?

Who knows, but definitely interesting times!

I think this has always been the case with a Revo vs. APR scenario. Revo has always been on the more aggressive side of things and that is right for the people who want it.

With that said if anyone has seen the updates that APR has done to their 2.0TSI and TFSI programs they have found out how to safely drag more power out of the engine. I'm sure there will be updates with their software as well that will see increases in power!

I have to say I am excited, more development for this engine will always bring good things so I am very glad to see this happening!

[Zed 2.0]

Those numbers are very impressive indeed but given my past experience with revo they are a company I would never do business with again.



I think this has always been the case with a Revo vs. APR scenario. Revo has always been on the more aggressive side of things and that is right for the people who want it.

With that said if anyone has seen the updates that APR has done to their 2.0TSI and TFSI programs they have found out how to safely drag more power out of the engine. I'm sure there will be updates with their software as well that will see increases in power!

I have to say I am excited, more development for this engine will always bring good things so I am very glad to see this happening!

Funny how people are jumping to conclusions about how "aggressive" this tune is. Wait for some logs and then talk.

[theKB]

Funny how people are jumping to conclusions about how "aggressive" this tune is. Wait for some logs and then talk.

All i'm saying is traditionally. This is not a direct statement about the 3.0TFSI tune but past tunes. Nothing wrong with the tune if it is more aggressive, give the people what they want!

[Kay15]

^^ He said he did take some logs and saw a difference in timing and AF ratios and such.. Still waiting for it to be forumluated and compared vs another AZiner who has taken similar data and logs from APR tune.

[MRxPresident]

good job revo, i had a revo tune on my B6 A4. i won't be doing anything new to the s4, selling for a new toy soon =)

[fatezero]

+1... I called APR this morning and was told they weren't even aware of the Revo tune and that they don't care anyhow. [rolleyes] I quoted the numbers that people are getting from the Revo tune and was told that if the otherwise stock Stage 1 tune is truly putting out those numbers that it simply isn't safe for the engine. Curious, I asked why wouldn't it be safe, and was not given any answer with any substance. Something about the exhaust diameter not being large enough. But then I said well if that's the case how come APR doesn't require the exhaust on their stage 2 (ecu + pulley only) and was given more useless info. It all seemed like pure speculation...

Ahh, this reminds me of the old days in 2001 to 2003 with the B5 S4. When APR didn't make as much power as ASP, GIAC, and AMS so APR would claim that only they were making power within the abilities of the engine and that the "other" tuners were pushing the car too much where it was unsafe. That was when making 320awhp was a lot ;) Now we know that the B5 S4 stock block can take 500+hp all day. Audi has always built their FI engines to handle at least 70%+ more hp in the past so I don't know why this car would be any different

[RevoTechnik-GM]

Busy morning here...I tried to read all the posts to get caught up and see if there was anything I could add to the conversation.

Congratulations to Auditude2.0T for being one of the first people with our tune, and especially for being the absolute first to get on a dyno AND to the drag strip all in one weekend!
It looks and sounds like you had a blast, and the results seem to be speaking loudly.

Thanks to everyone else who had positive information to add to the thread. It's refreshing to see people appreciating what we're trying to do here. I'd also like to add that this software has been a long time coming, so I can confidently say that the the results that Auditude has displayed are definitely on par with what we've expected, and future results from even more customers will prove that. I do agree that it will take more than just one or two good reviews in only a weeks time to satisfy most people curiosities or apprehension, but this seems to be a good start. So stay tuned because there is more to come.

Our dealers have been incredibly busy with the Winter Sale and orders for the (B8) A4 software are coming through quicker than expected.
We have offered incentives to our dealers who are willing to work with their customers to produce independent results when they can. We want them to share the good, the bad, and the ugly,...and are confident that people will continue to be impressed.

That said, I want to try and avoid the game of semantics if we could.
I'd really be disappointed for potential customers to be scared away by the term "aggressive", since that is such a relative term and obviously quite subjective. Example: I'm sure you would all agree that Stage Two for the (B8) 3.0 TFSI with a smaller supercharger pulley is a more aggressive option than the same companies Stage One file,... and by no means would they allow that to be interpreted as aggressive meaning unsafe.

Some of you have noted that different manufacturers have different philosophies for tuning, and I consider that to be a positive assessment for this situation. We've done significant dynamometer and on road testing over the past year and a half with a number of different test vehicles and are secure in our results. Because of that we take a lot of pride in the fact that we tune for impressive performance figures when compared to our competition, and by no means should that be interpreted aggressive meaning unsafe, or that we are any more willing to compromise reliability along the way.

Finally, a few of you have asked about our Serial Port Switch (SPS),... how it works and what it actually does.
I had an S4 here this morning that I took an SPS out to and made a quick video of it in action.
I'll try to get it edited and posted by the end of the day.

Cheers

[phillips2024]

awesome. thanks for the post! this setup paired with a pulley looks promising! cant wait to see what happens down the road[up]

[dgszweda]

I would guess that you can put an APR pulley on a car with a Stage 1 REVO tune, with no problems. I have had a number of supercharged cars and have replaced pulleys with no tunes with no problems. Gone more than 100K+ on a few. The pulley gives you most of the power and the tune will just fine tune it. Most of us did this with the new Mini Coopers, way before any tunes were out and I can remember after two years no one had ever recorded a problem, and I think that was already after what some people believed had been more than 2500 pulley installs.

[clochner]

I would guess that you can put an APR pulley on a car with a Stage 1 REVO tune, with no problems. I have had a number of supercharged cars and have replaced pulleys with no tunes with no problems. Gone more than 100K+ on a few. The pulley gives you most of the power and the tune will just fine tune it. Most of us did this with the new Mini Coopers, way before any tunes were out and I can remember after two years no one had ever recorded a problem, and I think that was already after what some people believed had been more than 2500 pulley installs.

well that's not the case w/ apr's pulley. it won't do squat w/o the stage ii tune

[Auditude2.0T]

I would guess that you can put an APR pulley on a car with a Stage 1 REVO tune, with no problems. I have had a number of supercharged cars and have replaced pulleys with no tunes with no problems. Gone more than 100K+ on a few. The pulley gives you most of the power and the tune will just fine tune it. Most of us did this with the new Mini Coopers, way before any tunes were out and I can remember after two years no one had ever recorded a problem, and I think that was already after what some people believed had been more than 2500 pulley installs.

This isn't the case with the S4. Changing the pulley with a stock tune or tune that has a certain boost set won't work. It will over boost and send the car into limp mode.

[staticuxo]

nice numbers on that dyno and 1/4 mi! congrats pete/revo! [up]

i can't wait to see some friendly competition in the B8 S4 world.. i will be in one in a few years.

[IanVr6]

There was somebody here who did ~280whp and then 345whp after APR stage 2 giving him a delta of 65.

Altitude started out at 311whp and now 387whp giving him a delta of 77whp with just a tune for only $1100.

Can't wait to see more dyno comparisons before and after the REVO tune, especially those done on the conservative Dyno Dynamics.

[Auditude2.0T]

Can't wait to see dyno comparisons, especially those done on the conservative Dyno Dynamics.

There's probably been over a dozen S4's dynoed where I went. APR Stage 1 93, APR Stage 2 93, APR Stage 2+ 100, APR Stage 2+ 93, Revo Stage 1 93, Stock, RS4's, M3's, Evos etc..

[CreoSTi]

This isn't the case with the S4. Changing the pulley with a stock tune or tune that has a certain boost set won't work. It will over boost and send the car into limp mode.

Actually, IIRC, it's fine to have the pulley on without the tune (it will bleed off extra boost). But if you run an APR Stage II tune without the pulley, then you run the risk of putting the car into limp mode.

[NWS4Guy]

Actually, IIRC, it's fine to have the pulley on without the tune (it will bleed off extra boost). But if you run an APR Stage II tune without the pulley, then you run the risk of putting the car into limp mode.

No, Auditude has it correct. Pulley + stock tune under more than light throttle will give overboost and put it into limp mode. Pulley tune plus no pulley would just have the ECU asking for levels of boost it will never see, like if you were driving it in very hot/humid or high altitudes.

[CreoSTi]

No, Auditude has it correct. Pulley + stock tune under more than light throttle will give overboost and put it into limp mode. Pulley tune plus no pulley would just have the ECU asking for levels of boost it will never see, like if you were driving it in very hot/humid or high altitudes.

Then I stand corrected. [:p]

[A4 TSCHUSS]

2K miles on one car isn't very long for reliability, though! Not that I am doubting this at the moment, but for sure it appears that Revo is pushing the engine considerably harder than APR.

That is not true at all and in fact is quite the opposite. Yes according to the logs mentioned the Revo car is running a few more degrees of timing but it is also running a much safer air/fuel ratio according to what has been presented from this car. And as for reliability you have people that have been running only the race gas program and then also with a pulley when they came out so more boost and more timing using the APR software so how is anyone going to say Revo is "aggresive" when these stage 2 or whatever you call them APR cars are running more boost and at times more timing than this Revo car?

[A4 TSCHUSS]

i feel like that will be the case, revo has always been on the aggressive side. my only concern is revo tunes popping motors... ive been there and done that

I don't know what you are referencing in regards to a car platform or what but that is not true at all saying they have always been on the aggresive side. I ran Revo for 2.5 years before switching to Unitronic in my A4 and Revo timing was lower significantly (this is talking big turbo tunes). And if anything happens to a car instantly the tune is to blame. My question to you is how long did that very tune run for before there was a problem? A tune doesn't just change so chances are there were other issues going on. Not saying that a bad tune could have been to blame but in something like a generic "box tune" I doubt it.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

+1... I called APR this morning and was told they weren't even aware of the Revo tune and that they don't care anyhow. [rolleyes] I quoted the numbers that people are getting from the Revo tune and was told that if the otherwise stock Stage 1 tune is truly putting out those numbers that it simply isn't safe for the engine. Curious, I asked why wouldn't it be safe, and was not given any answer with any substance. Something about the exhaust diameter not being large enough. But then I said well if that's the case how come APR doesn't require the exhaust on their stage 2 (ecu + pulley only) and was given more useless info. It all seemed like pure speculation...

You mean pure BS.

[Killaapp]

No, Auditude has it correct. Pulley + stock tune under more than light throttle will give overboost and put it into limp mode. Pulley tune plus no pulley would just have the ECU asking for levels of boost it will never see, like if you were driving it in very hot/humid or high altitudes.

Are you sure this is correct? I drove with the APR pulley and Stage 1 software for a few months before getting the stage 2 tune, drove it hard, and never went into limp mode.

per Arin@APR: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/435539-APR-Presents-3.0-TFSI-Supercharger-Pulley-Upgrade?p=6626539&viewfull=1#post6626539


Update from Engineering:

Installing the pulley while Stage 1 software is on the car will be perfectly fine. The bypass valve will simply open a little to keep boost at Stage 1 levels. Installing Stage 2 software with the stock pulley will also be fine, though a little more tricky. Nothing about this scenario will be dangerous. However, if the car is driven at wide open throttle the supercharger will not be able to meet requested boost. So, an under-boost code may occur.

[81bear]

^^This is how I understand it as well.

[tomh009]

You mean pure BS.

Maybe we could try to keep the discourse at least somewhat civil here ... [rolleyes]

[CreoSTi]

Are you sure this is correct? I drove with the APR pulley and Stage 1 software for a few months before getting the stage 2 tune, drove it hard, and never went into limp mode.

per Arin@APR: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/435539-APR-Presents-3.0-TFSI-Supercharger-Pulley-Upgrade?p=6626539&viewfull=1#post6626539

That was the quote from Arin that I had recalled, but I didn't have enough time to fish it out (darn work thing getting in the way)...

[Bob This]

Sorry if this has been answered but can the tune be used with a APR pulley? Or will they never be compatible

[IanVr6]

I think switching from APR to REVO if you already have the APR Stage 2 tune is a total waste of money.

Not that you said you had the tune.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Maybe we could try to keep the discourse at least somewhat civil here ... [rolleyes]

Well educate yourself and then you would agree it is pure bs. Increased ignition timing lowers exhaust gas temps, a richer air/fuel ratio also lowers exhaust gas temps, both of these mean SAFER. If apr was mentioning a small diameter exhaust they were probably trying to talk about egts which when you run a lot of boost egts can go up if the exhaust path isn't big enough. This Revo car isn't running a bunch of boost and isn't running more boost than what an APR pulley car would run which fourringrider asked about according to his post since APR doesn't require exhaust for the pulley according to what he said with "useless" stuff thrown back at him to try and build their story. APR clearly was bullshitting by what they were saying to him not giving him a real answer, while they are running more boost with their pulley which is less safe if you want to talk about anything being safe or unsafe. I am not saying running 1-2psi more boost is unsafe but stating that their little story was ridiculous and what is even more ridiculous is "they weren't even aware of the Revo tune" but people from revo were commenting in the original Revo thread [:p].

[clochner]

so how is anyone going to say Revo is "aggresive" when these stage 2 or whatever you call them APR cars are running more boost and at times more timing than this Revo car?

Yeah dude they are called Stage II. This coming from the same guy who constantly lectures us on how everyone here bashes anything non-APR. Time to take some of your own medicine yo, kay???

[A4 TSCHUSS]

My bad did I forget the "+" lol?

The "number" system is a joke. I gues my car must be like stage 6 or something. Fact of the matter is what you bolded is totally unimportant and irrelevant in this conversation.

[clochner]

My bad did I forget the "+" lol?

The "number" system is a joke. I gues my car must be like stage 6 or something. Fact of the matter is what you bolded is totally unimportant and irrelevant in this conversation.

Cool dude. Well nearly everything you've said in our forum has been unimaginably "unimportant," "irrelevant," and not to mention counterproductive. The fact of the matter is that a bunch of us on here are perfectly satisfied with our APR purchases, and your bashing of the company is really starting to get old. Why don't u take your "Billet" or whatever the hell you call your car and go piss on someone else's parade. Lata!

[dgszweda]

This isn't the case with the S4. Changing the pulley with a stock tune or tune that has a certain boost set won't work. It will over boost and send the car into limp mode.

If the tune was done right, it should open the bleeder valve. They shut it at 5,500 rpm to continue getting boost past the factory setting, but they should still always set a boost limit and open the bleeder valve at the overboost limit. The pulley would still give great torque without the tune, because at lets say 3000 rpm it would be giving more boost for this given rpm than the stock pulley and at 3000 rpm it would not be in overboost mode. Does anyone know what boost level it will go in limp mode in Stage 1? The APR pully is barely smaller than the stock pulley, so we are not talking drastic changes. Not like, lets say a Mustang, where most pulley changes net you more than 100-150 hp.

I would assume that the tune sets some kind of limit like 14.5 or 15 psi, and when it reaches that point, or a little below, the bleeder valve opens. Is the overboost really that sensitive? Since running the engine at a higher altitude at 100 degrees is going to give a different boost than running the same car with the same pulley at sea level at 25 degrees. If the tune was that sensitive to a pulley change than it has to be that sensitive to temperature change, since I am doubting the pulley is doing much more than 1 psi more than stock.

Maybe I am way off here for this engine. I am not as familiar with the Audi yet, but I came from the Mini cooper and had a bunch of those and we didn't even have bleeder valves on our superchargers, and we were doing some pretty small superchargers pulleys on there (22% reduction over stock), getting almost 230hp on a 160hp stock, with no ecu changes. Some were even throwing on a turbocharger on top of the supercharger (twincharging) with stock ecu's.

[gringoloco2000]

More Revo dyno and 1/4 mile numbers coming soon. Did the baseline dyno today on a Dynojet with my new friends at Forge here in Orlando. Hope to have the post Revo dyno by next week. My car is a 2010 6spd. 4 runs were consistent at 320-321hp and supposedly Dynojets run a little high on HP figures. Temps were in the 80s and the humidity was around 50%. Could not get TQ numbers due to some issues on the computer. We will get that working for the post flash dyno.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2j-EOCV9Cm0/Tt0-AYfNKHI/AAAAAAAAAX0/c8fnj2Sapng/s1440/2011-12-05_11-53-07_226.jpg

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Cool dude. Well nearly everything you've said in our forum has been unimaginably "unimportant," "irrelevant," and not to mention counterproductive. The fact of the matter is that a bunch of us on here are perfectly satisfied with our APR purchases, and your bashing of the company is really starting to get old. Why don't u take your "Billet" or whatever the hell you call your car and go piss on someone else's parade. Lata!

How do you figure anything I have said is counterproductive? All the APR fans bad mouthed Revo when they saw they were coming out with a tune, I said give the other companies besides APR a chance because APR is not the only people who know how to tune. Time passes and bam Revo tune comes out and makes great power and 1/4 times while also costing less (APR has always cost more on every single model and year). Someone who has APR asks APR questions in regards to what Revo has accomplished and and gets fed bologna. You are worried about the "stage" of your car when we are talking about things that actually matter and not some made up system. There is nothing wrong with anyone liking their APR stuff, but don't go saying that Revo is junk or now "unsafe" trying to badmouth it because it made more power than APR did.

Oh and "billet" is the compressor wheel of my turbo (billet machined aluminum as opposed to cast), but it was cute how you did that little mocking phrase there.

[tomh009]

Nobody is saying that Revo is unsafe, as far as I can tell. But the long-term durability of Revo-tuned (and GIAC-tuned) 2.0T engines is not yet known. And 2000 miles on one car won't prove it one way or another, either.

[81bear]

More Revo dyno and 1/4 mile numbers coming soon. Did the baseline dyno today on a Dynojet with my new friends at Forge here in Orlando. Hope to have the post Revo dyno by next week. My car is a 2010 6spd. 4 runs were consistent at 320-321hp and supposedly Dynojets run a little high on HP figures. Temps were in the 80s and the humidity was around 50%. Could not get TQ numbers due to some issues on the computer. We will get that working for the post flash dyno.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2j-EOCV9Cm0/Tt0-AYfNKHI/AAAAAAAAAX0/c8fnj2Sapng/s1440/2011-12-05_11-53-07_226.jpg

Thats Awesome! hope you get great post tune numbers! Keep us posted.

[gringoloco2000]

More Revo dyno and 1/4 mile numbers coming soon. Did the baseline dyno today on a Dynojet with my new friends at Forge here in Orlando. Hope to have the post Revo dyno by next week. My car is a 2010 6spd. 4 runs were consistent at 320-321hp and supposedly Dynojets run a little high on HP figures. Temps were in the 80s and the humidity was around 50%. Could not get TQ numbers due to some issues on the computer. We will get that working for the post flash dyno.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2j-EOCV9Cm0/Tt0-AYfNKHI/AAAAAAAAAX0/c8fnj2Sapng/s1440/2011-12-05_11-53-07_226.jpg

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmNhhojBQMc

[dgszweda]

gringoloco,

Where did you go in Orlando for the dyno? Are they the same shop you are getting the Revo from? I am in JAx and looking for a place.

[clochner]

There is nothing wrong with anyone liking their APR stuff, but don't go saying that Revo is junk or now "unsafe" trying to badmouth it because it made more power than APR did.

Read much??


Finally got caught up on this thread. I was skeptical @ first but now am glad to see B8 owners have another (and soon a third) option for tunes. Not only that, but it looks like Revo's Stage I is both cheaper and more aggressive than what APR offers. Kudos to Revo, and congrats on your passes, Auditude! [up]



Oh and "billet" is the compressor wheel of my turbo (billet machined aluminum as opposed to cast), but it was cute how you did that little mocking phrase there.

Any time man - glad I could amuse you (and that you found it "cute") [;)]

[A4 TSCHUSS]

gringoloco,

Where did you go in Orlando for the dyno? Are they the same shop you are getting the Revo from? I am in JAx and looking for a place.

There is an awd dyno in Jacksonville that I have used. It is a dyno dynamics though so no fancy numbers to show off on paper. It is just south of where 9a hits Phillips hwy. Guy is a tuner and is sometimes hard to schedule with though since he is constantly out of town to tune cars across the U.S. and out of the country. Mase Engineering is the name, his name is Steve Mason but he goes by "Mase". Tell him David with the white E55 and the grey Audi A4 sent you.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Read much??





Any time man - glad I could amuse you (and that you found it "cute") [;)]

I wasn't referring to you badmouthing, it was a general statement since so many in that other thread were trash talking saying they would never run Revo, Revo sucks, APR is king, blah blah blah.

[gringoloco2000]

gringoloco,

Where did you go in Orlando for the dyno? Are they the same shop you are getting the Revo from? I am in JAx and looking for a place.

http://www.titanmotorsports.com/ is where Forge recommended. Seemed to be a nice machine. Those things can't be cheap.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

There is Central Florida Turbo in Orlando also that has a Mustang awd dyno and there is another place I have dynoed in Sanford right outside of Orlando that had both a 2wd and awd mustang dyno at the time, forget the name but think it is Aerocomp racing.

[HotSauce]

I've seen this story before.

[sciblades]

There is Central Florida Turbo in Orlando also that has a Mustang awd dyno and there is another place I have dynoed in Sanford right outside of Orlando that had both a 2wd and awd mustang dyno at the time, forget the name but think it is Aerocomp racing.

i used to dyno over at superchips in sanford.

[JJSB8]

The Sanford shop is called PRS - Performance Race Solutions. They are an APR distributor. Great guys, you can ask for Mike. I've taken my STi there.

http://www.performanceracesolutions.com/

[Auditude2.0T]

Sorry if this has been answered but can the tune be used with a APR pulley? Or will they never be compatible

Not sure if it is or is not but there is pretty much no point without having a tune for it. Revo will be releasing their own pulley so might as well wait for that..

[RevoTechnik-GM]

Hey Guys,

Hope this isn't considered a blatant "thread jack"...

A few of you who had questions about the switchability with our software on the 3.0 TFSi using our Serial Port Switching (SPS) device.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKScO1PQdv0

I hope this explains it well enough.
I threw it together in a day (you can actually see today's date and time in the cluster).

Cheers

[tsivas27]

Since we are on the subject of track times, and I had Trinacria's timeslips from October (when he was stage I APR) and we have used the same track- I figured I would do a quick comparo of the times we saw both days, not just quickest, but all 5 runs recorded.


Trinacria: 2011 B8 S4, DSG, APR Stage 1, First time ever at any track
Englishtown NJ. Times October 16th, 2011
11:09-11:44 AM.
Temp: 62.6 F
Humidity : 42%
Rel pressure: 29.94 mm Hg
DA: 538 Feet


http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q421/tsivas2727/screenshot_01.jpg

From Runs #1-5, times stayed within 0.039 seconds of each other, with higher DA and temps.

Per Dragtimes DA calculator-** corrected times for the average run he had with the temp/pressure/humidity conditions on that day/time (don’t know where we really fit in the categories below).

Stock and Mildly Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines
12.756 @ 109.406 MPH

Extensively Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines
12.831 @ 108.957 MPH

Extensively Modified Supercharged and Turbocharged Engines
12.816 @ 108.948 MPH

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

Auditude: 2010 B8 S4, DSG, Revo Stage I results
Runs 10:00 am-11:30 am, drivers have been to track before
Englishtown Raceway
Temp: 46.4 F
Pressure: 30.57 inches Hg
Rel Humidity : 76%
DA: -1257 feet

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q421/tsivas2727/screenshot_02-1.jpg


With Runs #1-5, the Revo times stayed within 0.262 seconds of each other, with lower ambient temps and a much better DA.

Per Dragtimes DA calculator-** corrected times for the average run he had with the temp/pressure/humidity conditions on that day/time ( don’t know where we really fit in the categories below).

Stock and Mildly Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines

12.731 @ 110.594 MPH



Extensively Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines

12.699 @ 111.017 MPH



Extensively Modified Supercharged and Turbocharged Engines

12.62 @ 111.722 MPH
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________


It seems a bunch of people are pissed off/in a panic [mad] over one timeslip and a dyno. Both tunes are really great. I have driven both tunes in DSG cars. And it's great that Revo raised the bar.

The Revo car feels really strong to me and pulls like my Stage I did (6MT), and I was boosting ~>14-14.55 psi most of time. Trinacria's DSG Stage I always felt slightly less strong than mine when I data logged it and the data I compiled logging it proved that.

From the runs above, I see that the APR stage I car ran more consistent times under not as ideal conditions as the track day the Revo car ran. There was much less variance in between the APR runs and that itself is something to note., especially with the DSG, where much less error occurs. The Revo car had very nice trap speeds for just a tune - 112 mph is moving. Seems like it started pulling away after the 1/8th mile.

Let's see some more data come in from other guys getting the Revo tune. A two car sample size isn't really much at all folks. And I would like to see how they behave in excessive heat (summer) and with some miles put on them.

We are trying to set up John's Stage II APR DSG (now that it's running properly) vs the Revo Stage I DSG this week. Both cars have exhibited the 1st to 2nd gear delay and we will try and keep the weights etc even. We will do runs from a dig, and second and third gear pulls. Should be interesting.

[Vogz]

Well educate yourself and then you would agree it is pure bs. Increased ignition timing lowers exhaust gas temps, a richer air/fuel ratio also lowers exhaust gas temps, both of these mean SAFER.


Your statement about increased ignition timing is a half truth. Yes, more timing advance will lower EGTs. Too much advance will cause detonation.

That said, this is not a comment on the perceived "safety" of the REVO tune.

I'm really excited to see the results of some more cars with REVO tunes on them. This is very good for the B8 S4 community. I will be purchasing a tune in the spring. Which one is still up in the air.

[sciblades]

tunes are like religion every one loves a different one and they always fight about it. Let us not forget the car is only going to get faster with each company that comes out with another tune soon we will have super charger upgrades and these arguments about stage I tunes being unsafe will make us all chuckle, these engines have not even started to be pushed.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Your statement about increased ignition timing is a half truth. Yes, more timing advance will lower EGTs. Too much advance will cause detonation.

That said, this is not a comment on the perceived "safety" of the REVO tune.

I'm really excited to see the results of some more cars with REVO tunes on them. This is very good for the B8 S4 community. I will be purchasing a tune in the spring. Which one is still up in the air.

Yes there is a stopping point in how high you can go before detonation occurs, but that is not the subject I was talking on. He said when he talked to APR they told him "something about exhaust diameter being to small" and the Revo tune wasn't safe and said they told him other "useless information" pretty much not giving any substance to their arguement but rather just a round about way of trash talking on Revo. You cut the exhaust part out of the section you quoted me on, but that was the subject my statement was on, since they commented on exhaust diameter they had to be talking about EGTs (exhaust gas temps) because I have no idea what else they would be saying about exhaust diameter. Like I said earlier the car isn't running excessive boost (actually less than APR does with the pulley which they said doesn't need exhaust) which could cause increased EGTs so it seemed like they were just trying to fabricate anything to make them look good while making Revo look bad.

I want to see Unitronic's tune for these cars or GIAC because they have always seemed to make great power and GIAC has in the past not been scared to throw boat loads of timing in to their tunes. APR and Revo in the past were less powerful tunes than these guys, but maybe with these new cars they have both stepped up to be not quite as big of panzies and are making good power leaving little to differentiate between the manufacturers.

[essfour]

^ So what tune do you think you are going to purchase your YOUR B8 S4....

[CAA]

Okay it's official. Scheduled my install for Monday - car is totally stock. I can't promise I'll be going to a drag strip any time soon but I'll definitely provide my thoughts.

[madmadS4]

Since we are on the subject of track times, and I had Trinacria's timeslips from October (when he was stage I APR) and we have used the same track- I figured I would do a quick comparo of the times we saw both days, not just quickest, but all 5 runs recorded.


Trinacria: 2011 B8 S4, DSG, APR Stage 1, First time ever at any track
Englishtown NJ. Times October 16th, 2011
11:09-11:44 AM.
Temp: 62.6 F
Humidity : 42%
Rel pressure: 29.94 mm Hg
DA: 538 Feet


http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q421/tsivas2727/screenshot_01.jpg

From Runs #1-5, times stayed within 0.039 seconds of each other, with higher DA and temps.

Per Dragtimes DA calculator-** corrected times for the average run he had with the temp/pressure/humidity conditions on that day/time (don’t know where we really fit in the categories below).

Stock and Mildly Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines
12.756 @ 109.406 MPH

Extensively Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines
12.831 @ 108.957 MPH

Extensively Modified Supercharged and Turbocharged Engines
12.816 @ 108.948 MPH

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

Auditude: 2010 B8 S4, DSG, Revo Stage I results
Runs 10:00 am-11:30 am, drivers have been to track before
Englishtown Raceway
Temp: 46.4 F
Pressure: 30.57 inches Hg
Rel Humidity : 76%
DA: -1257 feet

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q421/tsivas2727/screenshot_02-1.jpg


With Runs #1-5, the Revo times stayed within 0.262 seconds of each other, with lower ambient temps and a much better DA.

Per Dragtimes DA calculator-** corrected times for the average run he had with the temp/pressure/humidity conditions on that day/time ( don’t know where we really fit in the categories below).

Stock and Mildly Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines

12.731 @ 110.594 MPH



Extensively Modified Naturally Aspirated Engines

12.699 @ 111.017 MPH



Extensively Modified Supercharged and Turbocharged Engines

12.62 @ 111.722 MPH
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________


It seems a bunch of people are pissed off/in a panic [mad] over one timeslip and a dyno. Both tunes are really great. I have driven both tunes in DSG cars. And it's great that Revo raised the bar.

The Revo car feels really strong to me and pulls like my Stage I did (6MT), and I was boosting ~>14-14.55 psi most of time. Trinacria's DSG Stage I always felt slightly less strong than mine when I data logged it and the data I compiled logging it proved that.

From the runs above, I see that the APR stage I car ran more consistent times under not as ideal conditions as the track day the Revo car ran. There was much less variance in between the APR runs and that itself is something to note., especially with the DSG, where much less error occurs. The Revo car had very nice trap speeds for just a tune - 112 mph is moving. Seems like it started pulling away after the 1/8th mile.

Let's see some more data come in from other guys getting the Revo tune. A two car sample size isn't really much at all folks. And I would like to see how they behave in excessive heat (summer) and with some miles put on them.

We are trying to set up John's Stage II APR DSG (now that it's running properly) vs the Revo Stage I DSG this week. Both cars have exhibited the 1st to 2nd gear delay and we will try and keep the weights etc even. We will do runs from a dig, and second and third gear pulls. Should be interesting.

Nice analysis. Seems like Revo did raise the bar, but didn't exactly blow away the APR tune. Looking forward to more data.

[*4rings*]

Am i able to remove the apr tune from my car and install the revo tune?Because i'm sure apr added something into the car's ecu...
unless APR gives me a good reason to stay, i will jump ship to revo as soon as something pulley related surfaces

[Auditude2.0T]

Am i able to remove the apr tune from my car and install the revo tune?Because i'm sure apr added something into the car's ecu...

I don't believe you'll have a problem with that. APR can't block another tune from being loaded onto the ecu in my opinion. If that was the case a dealer wouldn't be able to update an ECU and wipe the tune off.

[Auditude2.0T]

Okay it's official. Scheduled my install for Monday - car is totally stock. I can't promise I'll be going to a drag strip any time soon but I'll definitely provide my thoughts.

Can't wait to hear your opinion! Your gonna love it. Also can't wait to see more results from a few other people in this thread who said they are going to get the tune! Can't wait to have more Revo cars so we can all compare.

[tsivas27]

Nice analysis. Seems like Revo did raise the bar, but didn't exactly blow away the APR tune. Looking forward to more data.

Thanks.. Yeah when u factor in a few runs and that crazy DA that trackday.. it wasn't as bad as the dyno difference we saw.

should be doing more data logging and runs soon. Really curious to see the matchup.

[CJ_S4]

Nice analysis. Seems like Revo did raise the bar, but didn't exactly blow away the APR tune. Looking forward to more data. Yes, after a correction for DA, looks like the REVO tune has consistent across the board improvement, but maybe not what it originally looked like it could be. Just have to see more drag slips and dyno deltas from different cars.

Tsivas - maybe I'm just confused here, but why are higher DA's correcting the times slower? Shouldn't a higher DA give a faster than realized time? In the first runs with an average of 12.807 a DA of 538' corrects to around the same, where in the most recent runs the average of the runs was 12.563 but the higher DA=1257 corrects them to around 12.65. Using this logic, if I go run a 14 flat at Bandimere with DA=6000' will it correct slower as well, to like a 15 flat? That logic doesn't make sense, I thought DA was used to bring everything to STP conditions, meaning the higher the DA the more the correction (faster). I dunno, maybe I'm backwards...

[tsivas27]

Yes, after a correction for DA, looks like the REVO tune has consistent across the board improvement, but maybe not what it originally looked like it could be. Just have to see more drag slips and dyno deltas from different cars.

Tsivas - maybe I'm just confused here, but why are higher DA's correcting the times slower? Shouldn't a higher DA give a faster than realized time? In the first runs with an average of 12.807 a DA of 538' corrects to around the same, where in the most recent runs the average of the runs was 12.563 but the higher DA=1257 corrects them to around 12.65. Using this logic, if I go run a 14 flat at Bandimere with DA=6000' will it correct slower as well, to like a 15 flat? That logic doesn't make sense, I thought DA was used to bring everything to STP conditions, meaning the higher the DA the more the correction (faster). I dunno, maybe I'm backwards...


The Revo runs had Negative DA, wasn't higher, it was actually lower and great air for quarter mile runs.

[CJ_S4]

The Revo runs had Negative DA, wasn't higher, it was actually lower and great air for quarter mile runs.Ah yes...that's what that little dash in front of the number means... [facepalm] Thanks.

[LittleBlueGT]

If the REVO tune is richer, anyone know what sort of IDCs the car is running and at what temp?

I am very curious as to how much headroom there is in the fuel system.

[tribe]

Okay it's official. Scheduled my install for Monday - car is totally stock. I can't promise I'll be going to a drag strip any time soon but I'll definitely provide my thoughts.

I Scheduled my install for Monday too! I'm going to Drake in Sterling.

Couldn't resist those numbers for $1100 !!

[tribe]

Thanks Auditude! You sold more Flashes than Revo here ..lol You should be collecting some commission

[IanVr6]

I just got the Eurotuner magazine with a nice article about the REVO tune!

I'm waiting for this dyno comparison: APR Stage 2 vs REVO Stage 1.... same day on same dyno.

Even if the numbers are similar, the APR Stage 2 costs like $1800 incl. the pulley exclud. installation vs $1100 for REV). $700 is a big difference to me.

Wonder what APR has to say to back up it's tune.....

When will the SC pulley by REVO be out? 6 months?

[mg6045]

solid results, congrats to guys who bought the revo tune.

I find it hilarious how with every audi/vw car model there will be the revo/apr/giac tune debate, and the manufacturer who consistently dyno's the lowest numbers will always cry foul of how the high dyno number car is tuned to aggressively !! LOL. this same debate just happened with the bolt on turbo kits for the MK6 GTI. one companys crys aggressive, the other debates no, then the original company follows with a tune that makes 30% more power. comedy at its best, but sadly they are playing on customers who are uneducated on the science of tuning and the fastest way to scare someone with a new car is to claim a product to be unsafe. always fun to watch though !

[mg6045]

i might take you up on the offer pete, id like to do some pulls as well. i need to do the clutch on my car first tho. its so bad that i chatter on the stock clutch shifting into 1, 2, and 3. pretty sure i will end up with revo as i remember reading something about them being able to adjust torque limits which can help the test pipe/header guys

from what I have seen, its in best interest to change the clutch asap. The flywheel will overheat and turn blue fast, rendering itself useless. I smoked my clutch and only drove a few hundred extra miles and was only just comfortable reusing the oem flywheel and pressure plate. You could see that its gets real hot if the clutch is slipping.

I replaced mine with the southbend disk for now as thats all that is available for Southbend. The day a full southbend unit is released (LW flywheel/disk/pp) I will be swapping that in.

What are you replacing with, rich ?

[Meehow]

Okay it's official. Scheduled my install for Monday - car is totally stock. I can't promise I'll be going to a drag strip any time soon but I'll definitely provide my thoughts.

Im in baltimore, where are you getting it done?

[richib86]

from what I have seen, its in best interest to change the clutch asap. The flywheel will overheat and turn blue fast, rendering itself useless. I smoked my clutch and only drove a few hundred extra miles and was only just comfortable reusing the oem flywheel and pressure plate. You could see that its gets real hot if the clutch is slipping.

I replaced mine with the southbend disk for now as thats all that is available for Southbend. The day a full southbend unit is released (LW flywheel/disk/pp) I will be swapping that in.

What are you replacing with, rich ?whats up man, how've you been. I'm replacing mine with the clutch masters kit, just clutch and modified pressure plate

[Jones2012s4]

Looking forward to taking advantage of this offer! What dealer would you guys recommend for the Michigan area? There are a couple in Chicago and those seem to be the closest according to revo's website. I have family in Canada just accross the border in Windsor so I could also take advantage of any Canadian recommendations for dealers. Possibly in the London or Toronto area?

I am new to Audi ownership and am not familiar with all the regulars so far.

Thanks

[Auditude2.0T]

I am planning on re-dynoing the car in January! AWE Intake and X pipe coming soon. When I dyno again I plan on running 100 octane. 410whp is the goal. Once the pulley is released in hoping for an 11.7 with full stock exhaust minus the x pipe... We'll see what the future brings!!

[Auditude2.0T]

Once the modding begins I can't stop :D

[Auditude2.0T]

Thanks Auditude! You sold more Flashes than Revo here ..lol You should be collecting some commission

Hahaha that would be nice! I'm glad to be able to help the community, I'm excited to see more Revo #'s!

[Auditude2.0T]

I just got the Eurotuner magazine with a nice article about the REVO tune!

I'm waiting for this dyno comparison: APR Stage 2 vs REVO Stage 1.... same day on same dyno.

Even if the numbers are similar, the APR Stage 2 costs like $1800 incl. the pulley exclud. installation vs $1100 for REV). $700 is a big difference to me
.

Wonder what APR has to say to back up it's tune.....

When will the SC pulley by REVO be out? 6 months?

Comparison coming later this.. Revo Stage 1 93 vs. APR Stage 2+ 93.

Revo car is just tune. APR car is Intake/Pulley/Tune.

[Kay15]

Videos.. Runs.. More numbers !! The S4s for what its worth is becoming a monster sleeper. Mid 11s for next spring FTW! I thought the BMW guys had the 1 up on us because the Turbo's allowed them to make more power from the tunes I guess we under estimated these B8's all we have to worry about is these DSG holding up.

[richib86]

Videos.. Runs.. More numbers !! The S4s for what its worth is becoming a monster sleeper. Mid 11s for next spring FTW! I thought the BMW guys had the 1 up on us because the Turbo's allowed them to make more power from the tunes I guess we under estimated these B8's all we have to worry about is these DSG holding up. and the manual clutches too lol

[DLAB]

Comparison coming later this.. Revo Stage 1 93 vs. APR Stage 2+ 93.

If you two happen to pass through Mexico this weekend, I would love to see some highway pull videos!

[LittleBlueGT]

If the REVO tune is richer, anyone know what sort of IDCs the car is running and at what temp?

I am very curious as to how much headroom there is in the fuel system.


Nobody here can do some simple logs to answer this question?

[richib86]

Nobody here can do some simple logs to answer this question?give it time, the tune has been out for a week

[tsivas27]

Nobody here can do some simple logs to answer this question?

Block #'s????

[Symko]

RevoTechnic-GM,

Could you please PM me I have a question about the tune but your box is full. Unless someone else can answer my question. Will this tune work with a '11 Q7 S-Line with the same 3.0 TFSI engine? As most others, I am very interested in this tune & would be looking to purchase one in the near future. APR told me that their tune would work but they haven't been able to put one on anyone's vehicle yet. They said that they would install it on mine as a Beta if I could make it to their company in Alabama but I am currently stationed in Alaska.

Respectfully,

Dave

[///mpowered]

RevoTechnic-GM,

Could you please PM me I have a question about the tune but your box is full. Unless someone else can answer my question. Will this tune work with a '11 Q7 S-Line with the same 3.0 TFSI engine? As most others, I am very interested in this tune & would be looking to purchase one in the near future. APR told me that their tune would work but they haven't been able to put one on anyone's vehicle yet. They said that they would install it on mine as a Beta if I could make it to their company in Alabama but I am currently stationed in Alaska.

Respectfully,

Dave


I hope Revo has better customer service then APR for you brother! APR refused deal with me directly because I am in Canada and only wanted to direct me to my "local dealers" who weren't willing to participate in the current "Fall Sales special APR is offering" Talk about Inflation on the Canadian side of the boarder for APR's product.........not to mention the fact that Carbonio is literally 15 mins away from where I live either!!! The catcher is NOWHERE is it stated on APR website that Canadian customers can only deal with their local Canadian Dealers, its stated "You can obtain APR product through your local dealer, or directly through APR Very disappointed in the customer service I recieved from APR. I will deffinately be making my own thread about this experience shortly!! [headbang]

[///mpowered]

Double Post!

[egalley]

I hope Revo has better customer service then APR for you brother! APR refused deal with me directly because I am in Canada and only wanted to direct me to my "local dealers" who weren't willing to participate in the current "Fall Sales special APR is offering" Talk about Inflation on the Canadian side of the boarder for APR's product.........not to mention the fact that Carbonio is literally 15 mins away from where I live either!!! The catcher is NOWHERE is it stated on APR website that Canadian customers can only deal with their local Canadian Dealers, its stated "You can obtain APR product through your local dealer, or directly through APR Very disappointed in the customer service I recieved from APR. I will deffinately be making my own thread about this experience shortly!! [headbang]

Your local APR dealers aren't giving you the sale prices? The reason I got the stage II tune a month ago was because of the sale. Here in Ottawa they quoted me the sale price before I could ask.
I think you need to try another APR dealer in your area. Also it's only been in the last half year or so they stopped selling directly to us customers in Canada. Back last March I was able to purchase my exhaust right from their site. I don't know why they went this route, but I have had a very positive experience through my local dealer.

[tomh009]

I hope Revo has better customer service then APR for you brother! APR refused deal with me directly because I am in Canada and only wanted to direct me to my "local dealers" who weren't willing to participate in the current "Fall Sales special APR is offering" Talk about Inflation on the Canadian side of the boarder for APR's product.........not to mention the fact that Carbonio is literally 15 mins away from where I live either!!! The catcher is NOWHERE is it stated on APR website that Canadian customers can only deal with their local Canadian Dealers, its stated "You can obtain APR product through your local dealer, or directly through APR Very disappointed in the customer service I recieved from APR. I will deffinately be making my own thread about this experience shortly!! [headbang]

At least H2Sport is offering sale prices? And they are almost next door to you ...
http://www.h2sport.com/

[sciblades]

I want to see Unitronic's tune for these cars or GIAC because they have always seemed to make great power and GIAC has in the past not been scared to throw boat loads of timing in to their tunes. APR and Revo in the past were less powerful tunes than these guys, but maybe with these new cars they have both stepped up to be not quite as big of panzies and are making good power leaving little to differentiate between the manufacturers.

ahmen, off topic but to the point.

[Auditude2.0T]

..

[theKB]

I hope Revo has better customer service then APR for you brother! APR refused deal with me directly because I am in Canada and only wanted to direct me to my "local dealers" who weren't willing to participate in the current "Fall Sales special APR is offering" Talk about Inflation on the Canadian side of the boarder for APR's product.........not to mention the fact that Carbonio is literally 15 mins away from where I live either!!! The catcher is NOWHERE is it stated on APR website that Canadian customers can only deal with their local Canadian Dealers, its stated "You can obtain APR product through your local dealer, or directly through APR Very disappointed in the customer service I recieved from APR. I will deffinately be making my own thread about this experience shortly!! [headbang]

Shift Autosport in Vancouver could also probably Facilitate the sale details and drop ship etc for you! I am really suprised the APR dealers are not honoring the sale pricing? www.shiftautosport.ca for contact details

[Symko]

I hope Revo has better customer service then APR for you brother! APR refused deal with me directly because I am in Canada and only wanted to direct me to my "local dealers" who weren't willing to participate in the current "Fall Sales special APR is offering" Talk about Inflation on the Canadian side of the boarder for APR's product.........not to mention the fact that Carbonio is literally 15 mins away from where I live either!!! The catcher is NOWHERE is it stated on APR website that Canadian customers can only deal with their local Canadian Dealers, its stated "You can obtain APR product through your local dealer, or directly through APR Very disappointed in the customer service I recieved from APR. I will deffinately be making my own thread about this experience shortly!! [headbang]


mpowered,

Sorry to hear about your experience and hope that things will improve for you there in Canada.

I am not trying to jack this thread just asking since engines are the same and I didn't see a thread in the Q section. I hoped that RevoTechnic-GM or someone else might be able to address my question. Does anyone know if the tune might work for my Q7 3.0 TFSI?

Thanks,

Dave

[apexit1]

Apr didn't release the tune for all 3.0's when they did. They did testing on each vehicle before releasing it. Most likely because each engine is programmed to behave differently depending on the car it's installed on. I'd assume there was a reason and that Revo would do the same. Not 100% sure though.

[CJ_S4]

mpowered,

Sorry to hear about your experience and hope that things will improve for you there in Canada.

I am not trying to jack this thread just asking since engines are the same and I didn't see a thread in the Q section. I hoped that RevoTechnic-GM or someone else might be able to address my question. Does anyone know if the tune might work for my Q7 3.0 TFSI?

Thanks,

Dave You'll get a faster more appropriate response if you just PM the Revo rep (RevoTechnik-GM). Then you can start a thread in the Q7 forum and go from there...

[tomh009]

You'll get a faster more appropriate response if you just PM the Revo rep (RevoTechnik-GM). Then you can start a thread in the Q7 forum and go from there...

Apparently his PM mailbox is full ...

[CAA]

mpowered,

Sorry to hear about your experience and hope that things will improve for you there in Canada.

I am not trying to jack this thread just asking since engines are the same and I didn't see a thread in the Q section. I hoped that RevoTechnic-GM or someone else might be able to address my question. Does anyone know if the tune might work for my Q7 3.0 TFSI?

Thanks,

Dave

Hey Dave,

Just pick up the phone and call Revo. I had a few questions this week regarding the tune for my S4 and they were very helpful. I would get your confirmation directly from the source. They're at (770) 271-4726 - choose option 1 for sales and they're on EST.

Good luck.

[RevoTechnik-GM]

Hey Guys,

Not sure what's up with my inbox, I've been deleting everything every day (which BTW, makes it harder to follow up with people unless I get a "real name" and additional contact information...so my apologies if it seems that I've abandoned anyone's IM)...and yes I even deleted all the messages save in the "Sent Folder".

Anyways, I've seen a question about the 3.0 TFSi motors in other applications such as the Q7 and the A6. While the base motor is the same, the tuning is going to be very different for these other applications. They are on our radar (especially the Q7) but the interest has still not been as strong as we need it to be in order to get it to the front of the line for development.

Some one mentioned starting a specific thread in the Q7 forum, and I think that's a great idea. It will help us identify unique interest, and stay connected to those who will become customers once we have a product. I'll personally keep an eye on it and see if maybe we can speed things up.

[RevoTechnik-GM]

Some one else mentioned support in Canada for our sale.
JRP is our largest distributor north of the border, and they would be a good starting point of you don't find anyone using our Dealer Search page.

The good news though, is that you don't particularly need a local dealer if you feel equipped to remove and re-install your ECU yourself.
If that is the case, then you can pay any of our authorized dealers in advance, and then we would issue an order number that you would write on the outside of your box when you send it in.
We would then unlock and flash the ECU and send it directly back to you.

***PLEASE, check with your dealer before sending any ECU's as we now are only taking scheduled appointments for incoming ECU's.***

[AudiA4_20T]

Hey Revo delete your sent messages also that should help

[Arin@APR]

I hope Revo has better customer service then APR for you brother! APR refused deal with me directly because I am in Canada and only wanted to direct me to my "local dealers" who weren't willing to participate in the current "Fall Sales special APR is offering" Talk about Inflation on the Canadian side of the boarder for APR's product.........not to mention the fact that Carbonio is literally 15 mins away from where I live either!!! The catcher is NOWHERE is it stated on APR website that Canadian customers can only deal with their local Canadian Dealers, its stated "You can obtain APR product through your local dealer, or directly through APR Very disappointed in the customer service I recieved from APR. I will deffinately be making my own thread about this experience shortly!! [headbang]

The US APR operation only sells directly to customers in the United States of America. We did this in an effort to increase customer service as we recognized several customs related issues in the past. The last thing you want is for your ECU to get stuck in customs for several days, or weeks, while it's shipping from a company to an individual. Shipping directly, many customers have asked us to lie about product prices to get around importation duties. We will not do this. It's illegal. We also have agreements with our Canadian dealers in order to protect their brick and mortar operations by not undercutting pricing in their country. Having an APR dealer right around the corner to help with installs, diagnosis and updates is a valuable advantage and an excellent aspect of our customer service. They pay all of the taxes, shipping and exchange rates to legally bring the products into your country and we intend to respect their business as per our business contracts between our company and theirs.

My willingness to answer your questions via PM deep into the night, every night of the week, including weekends, should be a strong indication to you our customer service is top notch. (Re: Hey Arin | Recipient Users: ///mpowered | 04:03 AM)

I'm really upset to see you feel otherwise.

That said, if you send me a PM with the dealer you were working with, I'll make sure they are informed about our sale. To the best of my knowledge, our Canadian dealers are running the same sale, so the person you spoke to may be ill informed.

I apologize for the thread jack, but this needed to be addressed.