The Great Maestro 7 Tuning Suite Thread

[Audi Skate Snow]

Gotcha... ill try it out and log on the way home to see if there is any differences.

glad you are around to answer all these questions.

[SleeperAvant]

My minimum pulsewidth on stock displacement and EV14 750cc @ 4bar is 0.35. I wanted to get them down low enough so that my idle AFR is stoich.

[Audi Skate Snow]

changed it to .41 and drove 20 miles home. Idle LTFT is like 2-3 and part throttle is 10. gotta dial correction map.

[Hansi]

I guess you should set the minimum injector pulsewidth as low as the injectors can handle?

What effects would you get if you set it too low, if that's possible?

[SleeperAvant]

If it's too low it will stall or won't hold an idle. Try to get your TEMIN down low enough so that there is O2 correction trying to make your target lambda around 1.0 when idling.

[Wet0willy01]

I guess you should set the minimum injector pulsewidth as low as the injectors can handle?

What effects would you get if you set it too low, if that's possible?


Check this out if you haven't already

http://www.injectordynamics.com/LowPulseTech.html

[Hansi]

If it's too low it will stall or won't hold an idle. Try to get your TEMIN down low enough so that there is O2 correction trying to make your target lambda around 1.0 when idling.

I have it set at 0,35 currently, and I can reach 1,0 lambda when idling, but I'm wondering if this might have something to do with my going rich (0,75 lambda) on low loads when decelerating?

[MmmBoost]

I have it set at 0,35 currently, and I can reach 1,0 lambda when idling, but I'm wondering if this might have something to do with my going rich (0,75 lambda) on low loads when decelerating?

Shorter pulsewidth = less fuel. Why would this make you go super rich?


Most likely it's your injector correction table KFFKVS

[Hansi]

Shorter pulsewidth = less fuel. Why would this make you go super rich?


Most likely it's your injector correction table KFFKVS

Yeah, precisely.. If the ECU could use shorter pulsewidths I wouldn't go rich?

Regarding injection correction KFFKVS.. Shorter pulsewidth = less fuel here as well?

[MmmBoost]

I'm just going to use bosch names because they are way shorter and more precise...


TEMIN should only be only be set so short as it needs to be...or else you will start getting into extremely inaccurate fueling because the injectors become non-linear below a certain "on" time.


What is your ECU requesting when you're hitting 0.75? Are you losing O2 correction?

[Hansi]

I see..

Log (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhKBvtawlPaidFl0NjZEUlJfdVctbDRYWU55TWdQb 2c&hl=en_US#gid=0), 18:46:03 and 18:48:03, yellow color, deceleration, 0,75-4,0 lambda. Not sure what I should do to correct, or if it's normal?

[MmmBoost]

During an over-run condition the ECU shuts off the fuel injectors......so the 4.0 is normal when the ECU is requesting 1.05.

The 0.75 however looks like there is something wrong one of your basic fuel maps, or one of your correction maps.

[Hansi]

Over-run, as in too rich?

Thank you. I'll try restoring the fuel maps I've reset.

[MmmBoost]

Over-run = engine braking

[pape]

I have my temin set at .06 on the ID1000s. My idle is a perfect 14.7, its just during very low loads it richens. I will lower it to .04 and se if that helps.

[Audi Skate Snow]

My idle is pretty spot on now. Got idle LTFT down to 2%. Gotta work on my part throttle that is at 10%. Do i just adjust the main fuel correction map or try something else?

[MmmBoost]

Most likely your Battery Voltage Compensation.

There is a post on how to read your LTFT's and what to do with the numbers much earlier in this thread.

[Audi Skate Snow]

ill double back and check it out.

again thanks for all the help.

[MmmBoost]

I have my temin set at .06 on the ID1000s. My idle is a perfect 14.7, its just during very low loads it richens. I will lower it to .04 and se if that helps.

Depending on the situation it could be these: Main Fuel Correction, Flowmeter Correction, Injection Correction

[Hansi]

I have purchased stock AMB injectors to tune my MAF. Is the injection correction map included in my basemap for the stock AMB injectors, or is it tweaked for the 630 Siemens which the basemap is for?

What I plan to do is load stock AMB injectors settings from injector wizard and use the stock injection correction map to tune my MAF correction table, is this the correct thing to do?

[MmmBoost]

The injection correction map in the B6 Stage3 basefile is supposedly for the 630's although my car always ran like shit on the base file with 630's.


Here is the Injection Correction Map for the Stage 1 file. FKKVS. Keep in mind that this map also corrects for pulsations in the fuel system, so unless your fuel system is the stock 4-bar returnless, it may not be 100%

AMB Stock FKKVS (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8296547/AMB%20Stock%20FKKVS.bin)


Using the stock injectors to tune the MAF is certainly the right thing to do. In a perfect world, you would only change 1 piece of hardware at a time and then adjust the tune to suit.......then change another.....adjust.....etc. When installing a COMPLETELY new setup and trying to tune....you have no idea if you are tuning the correct map or if you are tuning one thing to compensate for another.

[Hansi]

Great, thank you [:)]

When you did the same thing, did you simply use the injector wizard stock AMB injector values, and that gave the correct values for TVUB (Battery voltage compensation), KRKTE (injector constant) and TEMIN (minimum injector pulsewidth)?

Yeah, I've understood it's better to try to tune one thing at a time. Displacement and cams are not stock, so I guess ideally I should tune a couple of maps for that as well, but I hope I will be able to get it running good without doing that.

[Audi Skate Snow]

Most likely your Battery Voltage Compensation.

There is a post on how to read your LTFT's and what to do with the numbers much earlier in this thread.

Adjusted my BVC to the bosch 550 profile, since my injectors are bosch 750's (which is a modified 550). Then I lowered my TEMIN a tiny bit. Drove 40 miles or so and got LTFT to .56 and 2.3

Gotta dial in my super rich condition above 5000 RPM now. Which looks like the main correction table is the best way to do this?

[MmmBoost]

Keep in mind that different pressures and different flows will affect injector open/closing times. While the Bosch 550 profile may be great place to start, you may still need to add a bit of latency to compensate for the higher flow.


Are you running a MAF, Charlie?

[Audi Skate Snow]

Yep.. running a TT225 MAF so loaded that profile. Not sure if that needs to be tweaked.

idle and part throttle are good but my car loves to go pig rich above 5000 rpm... pretty sure o2 corrections are shutting off and its out of limits

also my fueling system is stock returnless... so pressure is 58 constant.

[MmmBoost]

The MAF linearization profile should be 100% correct. You may need to look at your correction map though.


For going way too rich, it could be a number of things. Depending how your logs look and seeing what happens may give you a good indication of what's going on. You should also look at your fuel correction maps to see if there are any values in there that might be screwing things up. Another possible scenario is your injector constant my be too large.

How did you go about getting your injector constant?

[Hansi]

I think you should get a bigger MAF, I don't think the TT225 MAF is big enough for your setup? Look for a B5 or B6 S4 MAF

[Audi Skate Snow]

The MAF linearization profile should be 100% correct. You may need to look at your correction map though.


For going way too rich, it could be a number of things. Depending how your logs look and seeing what happens may give you a good indication of what's going on. You should also look at your fuel correction maps to see if there are any values in there that might be screwing things up. Another possible scenario is your injector constant my be too large.

How did you go about getting your injector constant?

your calculation that you posted. Ryan helped me out with that. currently it is .04259969

I will have to do some WOT logs but this logger keeps freezing when I go WOT.

Last night when I changed my BVC and TEMIN.. i reset the main fuel correction maps back to 1.00001 so I can adjust from there. with no adjustments to that map my LTFT are at the .56 and 2.3.

Of course I will have to adjust that map now for WOT.

[MmmBoost]

Your injectors are rated at 3 bar....not 4.

*edited* You must do the calculation for your injectors at system pressure

[Audi Skate Snow]

Your injectors are rated at 3 bar....not 4.

Your injector constant is not correct.

What do you come up with? i believe when he did it he based it off the injector ratting at 4bar which is 870.

[MmmBoost]

I can't tell you that :)

Try the calc on your own and let me see what you get.

[Audi Skate Snow]

0.0425952542

[MmmBoost]

Show your work please. You will be graded on part marks :)

[Audi Skate Snow]

Show your work please. You will be graded on part marks :)

ahahahahah

866.025cc/min calulated flow for operating pressure.

866.025 x 0.684 = 592.3611g/min

actual engine displacement = 2008 cc = 2.008 L.
number of cylinders = 4

KRKTE = 50.2624*(2.008/4)/592.3611 = 0.0425951751

[MmmBoost]

Oh......that's right. I forgot you were 2L.

Then your constant should be correct.

I've had to adjust mine slightly even though i trust the numbers Injector Dynamics supplies with the injectors is accurate.


So now that we have that straight......back to my original statements


For going way too rich, it could be a number of things. Depending how your logs look and seeing what happens may give you a good indication of what's going on. You should also look at your fuel correction maps to see if there are any values in there that might be screwing things up.

[Audi Skate Snow]

as far as logs go... when I am WOT it pulls a ton of fuel. What I believe is happening is the o2 sensor is going out of it's limits and going into open loop which shuts fuel corrections off.

Everything else checks out, MAF, timing etc.

I will try and do a few WOT pulls and post the logs tonight when I get home... this stupid logger freezes on me for some reason when I got WOT>

As far as the o2 corrections map... everything is at 1.0001 as of now and with no adjustments i have almost prefect LTFT for idle and PT. So I figure I can just adjust them once I log WOT and see where they are at. hopefully just leaning it out up top takes care of it on the correction map.

I believe IC, BVC and TEMIN are pretty good where they are and now its all about tuning the corrections maps.

[pape]

this stupid logger freezes on me for some reason when I got WOT

Most of those problems are PC related. When there is a lot of vivrations your HD on the laptop is moving around to much and you get the error.

Try pading the laptop or see if your laptop has one of those aplications the freezes the HD when Movement is present.

[25th AE GTi]

this stupid logger freezes on me for some reason when I got WOT

Most of those problems are PC related. When there is a lot of vivrations your HD on the laptop is moving around to much and you get the error.

Try pading the laptop or see if your laptop has one of those aplications the freezes the HD when Movement is present.

I tried removing the software for the HD vibration (i forget what its called) and it made no difference on my HP. Its real annoying not being able to log full throttle under 4th gear as I rarely have someone else to hold the laptop to keep it steady.

[Audi Skate Snow]

So I am not the only one that has this problem.?

[Hansi]

Nah, I get it too. I guess a SSD drive might help, if it is the computer that is the problem?

[MmmBoost]

I've never had a problem with either of my laptops. One was a POS Pentium II, and my new one is a cheap $400 Gateway.

[Audi Skate Snow]

Very interesting. I have another laptop at home that the wife uses. I will try that one out and see what happens.

[Wet0willy01]

I'm doubting it's a HDD issue if your issues only effect the eurodyne software and not others or the OS.

[Audi Skate Snow]

I tried checking out my boost maps tonight and plugged my n75 back in.

Here is what is happening. If i go 100% throttle at low rpms in any gear... soon as it hits 3500 the boost just spikes through the roof and car misfires like crazy and pops my brake booster line off. If i got 3/4 throttle and build boost slowly to full boost then go 100% throttle once i hit full boost it will not misfire at all and the car pulls like a freakin monster with no issue at all and goes to 22lbs (AFR good, no timing pull, no misfires etc).

On boost PID map it spikes from 1332 milibar to 2547 milbar which is 36lbs of boost (this is what my boost spikes to when it got WOT at low RPM..after it happened once i unplugged my n75 to run wastegate pressure and prevent damage). I am guessing this is my issue and need to check out Banana's thread about changing the AXIS values. Let me know if this sounds right.

Here are some screen grabs of my boost maps. My Maximum VE map looks like it jumps way too much from 2500 to 3500 RPMs.

Let me know what you guys think. As stated before these are the hardest maps to tune and I have been reading everything I can to understand them. My fuel trims are pretty damn good after driving for 2 days, over 100 miles. Idle changes from .56 to 1 and Part throttle is at 2-4. Once I am able to go WOT with no boost issue i will dial in AFR at WOT.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Usdcharlie/Screenshot2011-11-22at114446PM.png
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Usdcharlie/Screenshot2011-11-22at114313PM.png
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Usdcharlie/Screenshot2011-11-22at114250PM.png
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Usdcharlie/Screenshot2011-11-22at114339PM.png
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Usdcharlie/Screenshot2011-11-22at114324PM.png
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Usdcharlie/Screenshot2011-11-22at114350PM.png

[pape]

I am not sure how the PID map works I use my wastegate for boost not the N75 but,you do know that the milibars you see from the OEM Map sensor also have one atmosphere before you can take into account how much positive boost your making. I am sure you do. but just in case.

[Bische]

I am not sure how the PID map works I use my wastegate for boost not the N75 but,you do know that the milibars you see from the OEM Map sensor also have one atmosphere before you can take into account how much positive boost your making. I am sure you do. but just in case.

X2

But then it seems in maestro this has been fiddled with, converted into wrong units, completly subtracted atmospheric pressure and god know what else. This makes me a bit concerned about getting maestro, ofcoarse i can use other apps to log my ECU but then it would not be matching numbers in maestro [:(]

I hope one can disable those conversions in Maestro

[Audi Skate Snow]

ahh correct... so 2547 would be 1747 which is only 25lbs.

hmm... can't figure out why it spikes crazy as hell at wot but then doesnt do it if i build boost slowly then got WOT.

[Hansi]

Some reading material on PID controller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller).

[bananas]

hmm... can't figure out why it spikes crazy as hell at wot but then doesnt do it if i build boost slowly then got WOT.Charlie, pay attention to your Throttle Position and N75 duty in the log. Is the TPS going from 30% to 100% right when you spike, while the N75 duty stays relatively unchanged?

[bananas]

I don't know if this is a good way of doing it, but this is my plan anyway. Wish more people could share the way they prefer to do it so we could learn from it.
Seems like a reasonable plan to me.

[Audi Skate Snow]

Charlie, pay attention to your Throttle Position and N75 duty in the log. Is the TPS going from 30% to 100% right when you spike, while the N75 duty stays relatively unchanged?

I will have to check. I adjusted the axis to 1300milibar and it only spikes to 29lbs now then goes back down to like 22lbs. I will check if it does go from 30% to 100%. If it does what map do I adjust.

[Hansi]

So, before I thought the second field in 032 could be corrected by adjusting the injector constant/KRKTE, but now it seems it should be adjusted by changing battery voltage compensation/TVUB, and keep the KRKTE as calculated?

How should I correct it if the second field in block 032 shows 11%? (first field shows approximately 0%)

[Audi Skate Snow]

I have tried everything to get rid of these boost spikes. Tried adjusting the boost PID, boost duty, and maxium VE... still spikes if I floor it before 3500 rpms.. if I floor it after it will just hit requested boost and hold with no spike.

[pape]

you still havent tried a MBC

[Audi Skate Snow]

it defeats the whole purpose.

an MBC would be a bandaid.

[bananas]

An MBC in parallel is a fine solution for smoothing boost spikes if you're boosting past 22psi (MAP sensor). It just helps clip the spikes to your target maximum boost.

[Audi Skate Snow]

That it would for sure... just dont like the idea of running one but hey what can I do ahah.

It seems like one of my maps just need adjusting but I have tried all the Boost maps and no luck.

[SleeperAvant]

Charlie, try lowering the Duty % right when boost onset occurs, then slowly ramping it back up as you near redline. That way it will reduce the effect of nasty spikes.

Example

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6081/6104023679_e24c5a3414_b.jpg

[Audi Skate Snow]

I will give it a try. the crappy thing is I can't log WOT to see what is going on. My damn logger keeps freezing above 3000 RPMs. So hard to see what is going on.

[SleeperAvant]

I have actually just loaded a file this morning that does not have the Pump/Race setting......only Timing Map, Cam Position 1 & Timing Map, Cam Position 2. So this file should work like the stock programming. I haven't had a chance to go through the log from this morning yet, but i liked the way this file felt this morning.

Chris, any results to report of loading this file?

[MmmBoost]

So far good results, but it's hard to tell what made the difference........the type of file, or the few things in the file that I changed before loading it. But it's been 3 weeks or so and I'm still running it. I'm on my 16th revision of it

[SleeperAvant]

Nice. I wasn't aware that you can disable pump/race at all.

[MmmBoost]

It's just a file without the modifications that Chris made in order to enable that functionality. I never run race gas, and I never quite understood how the software would handle interpolating between the MANY maps that it has to during cam advancing.....so I basically wanted to try a file that was the way the Bosch engineers intended it to be

[SleeperAvant]

So how does one go about creating a file that eliminates the modifications that CTapp made?

[MmmBoost]

There is nothing the end-user can do. It's a function of the file you're using for your car and how the code is compiled.


I guess I'm just a purist and believe there is a reason there are two maps for many things........so now when tuning I have to take into consideration which map it would be based on load + rpm and whether or not the cam is advanced or not.

[SleeperAvant]

So it's something that has to be created outside of Maestro?

[MmmBoost]

Yes. It has to do with how the actual code is written in the file. It's just a stage 1 file that I have change to suit my setup. The stage 1 file did not have the ability to select Race/Pump timing maps.

[SleeperAvant]

Interesting, thanks for the info.

[Hansi]

I thought cam advancing was only at warmup?

[MmmBoost]

Common misconception.

[Hansi]

When is it used? I have disconnected my VVT tensioner because of my cams..

[MmmBoost]

It is used in the high requested load mid-band range to give more torque. Mine comes in around 2K and goes off around 5500. I don't have my cable here today so I can't check.

[Audi Skate Snow]

Got rid of my boost spike... my boost PID map looks way different but it seems to be the only thing that fixed the spike. Just gotta dial IN WOT AFR now.

Anyone know why the car will not warm up at 1200 rpms? Instead just goes straight to 800 RPM. I am guessing this has something to do with BVC.

here is a pic of how my boost PID looks... I am going to slow increase the values to see exact where it is spiking on the map. seems to happen at 3500-4000 when driving.

Thanks for all the help on this gang.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Usdcharlie/Screenshot2011-11-28at82214PM.png

[SleeperAvant]

Got rid of my boost spike... my boost PID map looks way different but it seems to be the only thing that fixed the spike. Just gotta dial IN WOT AFR now.

Anyone know why the car will not warm up at 1200 rpms? Instead just goes straight to 800 RPM. I am guessing this has something to do with BVC.

here is a pic of how my boost PID looks... I am going to slow increase the values to see exact where it is spiking on the map. seems to happen at 3500-4000 when driving.

Thanks for all the help on this gang.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Usdcharlie/Screenshot2011-11-28at82214PM.png

I don't know how you got rid of it using the PID map, I would've made changes to the Boost DUTY map, as you'll want that hardcoded to boost above map sensor limit.

[Audi Skate Snow]

I don't know how you got rid of it using the PID map, I would've made changes to the Boost DUTY map, as you'll want that hardcoded to boost above map sensor limit.

I tried that at first without adjusting the PID map... no luck and it still spiked. After about 6-7 different revisions this was the only thing that cured the spike.

[Audi Skate Snow]

any ideas behind the cold start going straight to 800 rpm? I believe it started when i adjust my BVC as it did warm up at 1200 before i started making revisions.

[Audi Skate Snow]

YES! Fixed my logging problem.

For anyone that has any problems with their maestro freezing while logging, here is what I did and why.

I tried 2 different computers and got the same results. They were both freezing. I narrowed it down to the cord or the obd port itself. I did some reading online and other car people have had this problem and fixed it by putting Ferrite Choke Cores around their cable and OBD wires. Basically the frequency noises were making it freeze.

I put one choke core around the OBD wire bundle leading to the port, then put two on my maestro cable. THIS SOLVED THE PROBLEM. I get zero freezing after a ton of pulls WOT.

Here is a picture of what they look like.

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-4471473w345.jpg

[25th AE GTi]

YES! Fixed my logging problem.

For anyone that has any problems with their maestro freezing while logging, here is what I did and why.

I tried 2 different computers and got the same results. They were both freezing. I narrowed it down to the cord or the obd port itself. I did some reading online and other car people have had this problem and fixed it by putting Ferrite Choke Cores around their cable and OBD wires. Basically the frequency noises were making it freeze.

I put one choke core around the OBD wire bundle leading to the port, then put two on my maestro cable. THIS SOLVED THE PROBLEM. I get zero freezing after a ton of pulls WOT.

Here is a picture of what they look like.

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-4471473w345.jpg

That is great news! I'm not familiar with those. Is that something I can get locally at a store or do I need to order online from a special retailer?

[Audi Skate Snow]

you can get them at radio shack. They are like 3 bucks for a pack of 2.

[drjonez]

Just an Rf engineer chiming in here- there are a wide variety of compositions of ferrites, so one may work but another won't. Make sure it fits tightly on the cables/wires you're working with...

I'd guess that the problem is actually the USB->OBD dongle, probably wasn't properly tested.

[Audi Skate Snow]

correct.. the ones posted above are the exact size and ones I purchased.

[25th AE GTi]

correct.. the ones posted above are the exact size and ones I purchased.

They did not work for me. I may try another set as that size did not properly fit my obdII port.

[Audi Skate Snow]

They did not work for me. I may try another set as that size did not properly fit my obdII port.

another thing that might work is if you have a power inverter in your car.... I.E plug your lap top into the cigarette lighter while logging. Also a new cable in general should be tried out.

[Wet0willy01]

You could try my cable/ powerTapp to see if it helps.

[S/4biturbo]

Can someone help me, please I need to set my long term fuel trims to 0. could someone walk me through it. Sorry for the noob question, I am new to maestro and I am trying to get my car running right.

[bananas]

Can someone help me, please I need to set my long term fuel trims to 0. could someone walk me through it. Sorry for the noob question, I am new to maestro and I am trying to get my car running right.If you just want to reset your fuel trims, clear your fault codes (using VAG-COM or the Maestro cable). Clearing the fault codes resets long term fuel trims, and your car will begin learning from "0" again.

[Audi Skate Snow]

did he mean that or how to actually "tune" them to get close to zero?

[25th AE GTi]

You could try my cable/ powerTapp to see if it helps.

That would be great, worth a shot I suppose. Sent ya a PM.

[Hansi]

The injection correction map in the B6 Stage3 basefile is supposedly for the 630's although my car always ran like shit on the base file with 630's.


Here is the Injection Correction Map for the Stage 1 file. FKKVS. Keep in mind that this map also corrects for pulsations in the fuel system, so unless your fuel system is the stock 4-bar returnless, it may not be 100%

AMB Stock FKKVS (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8296547/AMB%20Stock%20FKKVS.bin)


Using the stock injectors to tune the MAF is certainly the right thing to do. In a perfect world, you would only change 1 piece of hardware at a time and then adjust the tune to suit.......then change another.....adjust.....etc. When installing a COMPLETELY new setup and trying to tune....you have no idea if you are tuning the correct map or if you are tuning one thing to compensate for another.

Hey.. When I try to import that .bin I get an error message saying "Map file opened was not the correct length for this file....."?

[25th AE GTi]

Anyone experiencing cylinder correction while tipping into throttle at low loads? I can't figure this out.

[613B6]

Your IATS might be high if you have been driving around town or idling. Either take some timing out of those areas or if you do see high IATS, go into the correction for air temp and adjust those rpm/load areas by reducing it. Also make sure your within O2 correction (no more than 22% max) or you might be simply a touch too lean. Im going to assume you probably dont have a MAF either..

[25th AE GTi]

Your IATS might be high if you have been driving around town or idling. Either take some timing out of those areas or if you do see high IATS, go into the correction for air temp and adjust those rpm/load areas by reducing it. Also make sure your within O2 correction (no more than 22% max) or you might be simply a touch too lean. Im going to assume you probably dont have a MAF either..

Thanks for the input, unfortunately its nothing obvious that I can see. IAT's are fine, o2 correction is roughly +/-1 to 5% in this area, lambda is pretty close to requested usually a smidge lean under desired but we are talking out of boost here low load. So far I have reduced a chunk of timing around this area, richened up airfuel to around 13.8 and it has not really helped.The only thing that is consistant is its always right about 54% load while what appears to be transitioning from part throttle map to full load. It's very easy to reproduce, I can drive on the highway in 4th gear lightly feathering the throttle on & off (18%-28%) and it will show correction 2-6 deg. Always around 54% load. Its only on tip-in, if I continue to do a full throttle run the correction will slowly drop and be gone by the end of gear run. Sometimes I will get a hit of correction while shifting (up or down/light or heavy load). Yes MAFLESS... AUDI V8 MAF is in the mail. Any other ideas I have plenty of logs to post when I get home.

[613B6]

Since you have done the basics, maybe its requesting too much load in that area? Try reducing your target filling map by 15% for the entire map up to the last two columns (far right). This is more of an experiement on my part. what pistons?

[SleeperAvant]

Maybe just increase your IC.

[Audi Skate Snow]

so when i run WOT logs to adjust my air/fuel. the values in the histogram are so up and down. I am using average values. if i smooth it, it would be values completely different and can't seem to get the map to look "smooth". I hit my target air/fuel but o2 corrections go up and down.

i also noticed i get random timing pull that i can not figure out why. Here is a quick log of the last revision I did. can anyone make out the random timing pull? i go into the timing map and adjust those cells accordingly but it will still pull timing. Some parts i can understand why it would pull timing since it hits 13 degrees and i am on straight pump no meth... but other parts it is only at 2-5 degrees and will pull timing.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahsa_QzCz3S0dEhVQ2xIc2tfRWc3XzJmYUM2RmZ3U lE

here is a picture of my map when i apply histograms from the log posted above. if i smooth it, it will never hit the correct target and 02 corrections will be worse.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Usdcharlie/Screenshot2011-12-07at94033PM.png

[MmmBoost]

blindly applying the histogram function is asking for trouble. you need to take into account the situation in which the O2 correction happens and judge which map you should be correcting.


Not all fuel corrections should be dealt with in the "Main Fuel Correction" map.

going from 90% in one cell to 117% = [down]

[Audi Skate Snow]

my LTFT are probably the best they are going to be. what map would you tune for WOT AFR? I thought it was main fuel correction.

[MmmBoost]

column 159 @ 3500/4000 rpm

[Audi Skate Snow]

i edited my last post so I think you were answering that before i edited it.

[MmmBoost]

And when I talk about making corrections wisely in the Main Fuel Correction map.....this is why.....


MFC = KFLF .......which, again, is a pre-correction map.

So here you see out of KFLF.....you get out fgru
http://i.imgur.com/Wsat2.jpg


which then waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay later on goes into this set of calculations in order to come up with the actual calculated fuel pulse delivered to the injectors.
http://i.imgur.com/T2l18.jpg

[Audi Skate Snow]

chris you are a gangster.

Not sure what that schematic means or how i relate it to the maps I need to tune. 2 weeks with maestro and still learning of course.

[Hansi]

Hey.. When I try to import that .bin I get an error message saying "Map file opened was not the correct length for this file....."?

Chris, could you please post a screenshot of the stock FKKVS?

[25th AE GTi]

Since you have done the basics, maybe its requesting too much load in that area? Try reducing your target filling map by 15% for the entire map up to the last two columns (far right). This is more of an experiement on my part. what pistons?

I may try and give that shot, I haven't had the time to analyze my logs any further. Running stock 20mm wrist pin pistons, not sure what they are out of; I got them from SleeperAvant.

The target filling map; should these values be relative to what my ACTUAL engine load is? If so I may need to actually INCREASE these by 15% to meet my actual load. I need to read up on this more....


Maybe just increase your IC.

Should be okay, I'm very happy with my longterm and active corrections.

[Audi Skate Snow]

same thing with me if that is the case, i need to increase as I am about 15% higher on load than the corresponding cell value in the map.

[MmmBoost]

Chris, could you please post a screenshot of the stock FKKVS?

http://i.imgur.com/dtiqy.jpg

[Hansi]

Great, thank you very much [:)]

Edit: Hmm, come to think of it, I will likely need to change KRKTE and TVUB also, because of the displacement increase to 2008cc.
Is there a formula for changing TVUB when upping replacement?

[613B6]

I may try and give that shot, I haven't had the time to analyze my logs any further. Running stock 20mm wrist pin pistons, not sure what they are out of; I got them from SleeperAvant.

The target filling map; should these values be relative to what my ACTUAL engine load is? If so I may need to actually INCREASE these by 15% to meet my actual load. I need to read up on this more....

Should be okay, I'm very happy with my longterm and active corrections.

Dont increase it, thats only going to ask for higher inputs to reach desired load, lower it first and see if it helps. It will almost ack like a reduction in pedal input..Ive lowered mine over the stock base file by 30% except asking the up last far right colums to reach over 250 to make sure it always requesting max load. For some reason tapps base files has them jacked up which Ive found to be the route of alot of issues when tuning a few friends cars. Bananas was the one who pointed me down that path, dude knows his shit.

IC would have nothing to do with his issues here. Now get out and make a few changes and report back!

[Bische]

Is maestro still getting updates or is it final?

Not 100% i still want to go maestro.. Seems like theres still maps missing from screenshots i have seen, has anyone got an explaination for the timing maps?
Why isnt all timing maps unlocked?
Which map is it you actually change when tuning "Pump gas timing"?

Anyone cloned their ECU and being able to tune both ECUs?

[Hansi]

When I try to set FKKVS to stock values, I get the following error message:

http://www.torgersen.com/temp/Maximum-value-exceeded.jpg

Bug? Should I notify Tapp?

Another thing, KRKTE and TVUB values for stock injectors on 2008cc stroker? How much do the stock injectors flow at stock returnless pressure?

[Poopie]

what is the general consensus of going with a map based file? seems like a lot of people are running the v8 mafs. I'm getting maestro in a week and i am just finishing welding my FMIC piping now. I'm wonder if i need to build an intake for a maf as well. Any pics of people and their maf set ups? I ran a ford lightning maf when i had tapp's aeb 630 in my b5 and the maf was a source of a lot of issues.

[MmmBoost]

MAF >> noMAF

[25th AE GTi]

what is the general consensus of going with a map based file? seems like a lot of people are running the v8 mafs. I'm getting maestro in a week and i am just finishing welding my FMIC piping now. I'm wonder if i need to build an intake for a maf as well. Any pics of people and their maf set ups? I ran a ford lightning maf when i had tapp's aeb 630 in my b5 and the maf was a source of a lot of issues.

From what I have been told there is not a huge difference. Most notabley in part throttle and full throttle tip in. FWIW I compared a few MAF logs from different users running the same turbo as me and my ALPHA -N values seemed to correspond very closely to their MAF readings. I picked up an Audi V8 MAF but have not installed yet; I neeed to make an adapter harness and modify my intake pipe; hopefully in the next few weeks I'll find time to tackle it and provide impressions.

...and just to update my post regarding knock. I never got a chance to modify my Torque tables as TAPP sent me some updates and I have not seen the issue occur since.

[drjonez]

Running a MAF improves driveability substantially. You can make a MAFless setup perform as well....just takes substantially more tuning.

[screwball]

There's definitely more work being done to offer both refined base files and more hardware specific base files coming from Eurodyne.

[Poopie]

ok sounds good. I may just try and run mafless. The b5s in my area running the uni mafless tune run/ran very well. This car isn't daily driver so i don't need it to drive like factory. I just need it to be a fun car. haha

[Poopie]

I have another question on the maf intake set up if peeps dont mind chiming in. Do you guys vent your bov/dv back into the intake? Or does the ecu adjust for the lost metered air via map sensor?

[MmmBoost]

If you have a MAF, you should be running a DV with it routed back in.

The ECU does not compensate for any air entering or exiting the system after the MAF.

The MAF and MAP serve 2 different functions.

[MmmBoost]

Maestro Version 2.4.7 a few new features added to my diagnostics module...


I wrote Tapp and asked him about some of the new features....

Me
Him

What's the difference and when should you use these?

Rear O2 heater diagnosis? Turn this off if you want to disable diagnostics on rear 02 sensor, or on otherwise.
Rear O2 heater output stage diagnosis 2? Turn this off if you want to disable diagnostics on the output stage for the rear 02, or on otherwise.

Lambda sensor diagnostics? This turn on or off the monitoring for “sensor aging”

Rear O2 response monitor 1? These two turn diagnostics on or off for rear 02 response monitoring.
Rear O2 response monitor 2?

SAI fault detection (EM)? This toggles SAI faut detection on or off, EM stands for European mode.
SAI configuration? This should be set to 0 to disable, 1 otherwise.

Evap diagnosis?
Evap leak detection pump configuration? Turn all these off, if you have removed or disabled your evap system for off road use, on otherwise.
Evap Configuration (EM)?

Catalyst Configuration? off if you have no cat, on otherwise.
EGT regulation diagnostics? Off to disable, on otherwise.
EGT sensor diagnostics? Off to disable, on otherwise.


For cars without EGT sensors (pretty much all except the S3, B5S4, B5RS4, TT225) leave the EGT settings alone

[EBG 18T]

Chris - thanks for the update. It seems like alot of the o2 diagnostic stuff is overlapping. Or am I missing something?

[MmmBoost]

Those were my thoughts.......that's why I asked.

I have no idea why there are 2 or 3 different things for the same portion of diagnostics

[thenj3]

are any of you guys running the id1000 map? it looks like the file tapp sent me is based off a 4bar set up when I am 3bar. because I wasn't able to even get off idle when the pressure was at 3 bar, but when I upped it the car runs solid with great a/f ratios.

[bondar1989]

Chris since you now have an AEB head you are able to turn off the SAI so you dont get a check engine light bc my brother has a built AEB head and about to put in and I know on the back there is no spot for the EGR or is it he SAI? Do you get a check engine light bc of no EGR/combi valve? I know you are runnign a catch can so you have no SAI pump. I am confused on the back of the AEB head the spot that is missing and not on our AMB head is it the EGR/combi valve part or the SAI? sorry for the confusion if you cannot follow this post.

[MmmBoost]

I have no had SAI since I went BT and have never had a CEL for it.

the only CEL that keeps coming back not matter what I do is the P2404 for the evap system.

[bondar1989]

I have no had SAI since I went BT and have never had a CEL for it.

the only CEL that keeps coming back not matter what I do is the P2404 for the evap system.

Oh alright I just asked my bro he was saying that the EGR/combi valve isnt used on the AEB head. what did you end up doing for that?

[MmmBoost]

I don't understand the question....

[Dan[FN]6262]

These cars do not have a Exhaust Gas Recirculation system.

[bondar1989]

I don't understand the question....

There is something missing on the AEB head on the back of it. And on our AMB head there is a spot for it. what is that for? and do you need to do anything when you switched over to the AEB.

I don't know what its called thats why I am asking. and wondering if there is anything u had to change.

[gmx]

AEB don't have SAI.
And that is what your hole is for on other heads. And therefore, aftermarket block off plates.

[bondar1989]

AEB don't have SAI.
And that is what your hole is for on other heads. And therefore, aftermarket block off plates.

that preety much sums it up. All I know is on my amb there is a spot on the back for the sai. and on the aeb head on the back there isnt that spot. thnx

so with chris he said he have had a catch can even before the AEB so he never had to worry about it. I understand now. was a bit confused.

[MmmBoost]

Catch can has nothing to do with SAI. They are 100% not related at all.

A catch can is to catch oil vapor and moisture from the crankcase and valve cover while they are vented.

The SAI is to pump fresh air into the exhaust in order to "improve" (read dilute) the exhaust on cold starts for emissions purposes.


How is this Maestro related??

[Dan[FN]6262]

How is this Maestro related??

LOL

[bondar1989]

damn I was really confused, maybe I should stop doing drugs.

[Bische]

Anyone got the update to work? Mine just sits at "checking for updates, please wait", and if I touch anything it freezes [:(]

[613B6]

Just go and download it from the customer login section on eurodyne, it happened once before to me.

[Bische]

Just go and download it from the customer login section on eurodyne, it happened once before to me.

Yes thank you, I didnt think of that lol

[SleeperAvant]

Anyone tinker with their coil dwell maps yet?

[EBG 18T]

Anyone tinker with their coil dwell maps yet?

I don't understand them enough to tinker with them

[SleeperAvant]

Anyone notice that file extensions saved by maestro changed from ".tapp" to ".mstro"? Also, why has the file size changed from 1024kb to 491kb?

What actually has changed when updating firmware on Maestro editors that created this change?

[Bische]

Thats about the space actually used in a ECU binary as maps, in my binary about 30% is FF'ed.

[MmmBoost]

I noticed this quite a while ago. Asked Tapp he said it won't affect anything, but he had his reasons.


And for those that don't know what FF'd means.........it's Hexadecimal take for 00......or nothing......blank......nill.......nadda......zip.

[Bische]

btw Chris, I uploaded a stock bin for the box you requested at Nefmoto if you didnt notice.

[MmmBoost]

I have been out of the tuning loop. I haven't touched my tune in ages it's been running so well.

Might tweak a few things once I get my new intercooler setup on though. But I'll check it out. Thanks.

[SleeperAvant]

Thanks guys.


I have been out of the tuning loop. I haven't touched my tune in ages it's been running so well.


That is a very good thing.

[Molotov]

Just ordered mine yesterday. I'll be reading through this thread more thoroughly and probably asking dumb questions soon enough. Good to hear that you haven't had to tweak your file after getting it the way you wanted

[Bische]

Just ordered mine yesterday. I'll be reading through this thread more thoroughly and probably asking dumb questions soon enough. Good to hear that you haven't had to tweak your file after getting it the way you wanted

You will find yourself reading the same threads over and over again, at least I have done lol

I pick somethings up the first round, some info are just plain latin, read a little more elsewhere. Hmm, problem pops up, back to the old threads and now the latin turns into... well.. german.

But german is easier than latin, and now when I have read the same threads like 5 times, I understand or can somehow relate to most of it. It is an art, and do not trust/use anyones approach before you understand it.

www.nefmoto.com <-- Knowledge.

EDIT: Finally, the Maestro update I as waiting for [cool]

[SleeperAvant]

Agreed, Bische. Which update were you waiting for?

[Molotov]

You will find yourself reading the same threads over and over again, at least I have done lol

I pick somethings up the first round, some info are just plain latin, read a little more elsewhere. Hmm, problem pops up, back to the old threads and now the latin turns into... well.. german.

But german is easier than latin, and now when I have read the same threads like 5 times, I understand or can somehow relate to most of it. It is an art, and do not trust/use anyones approach before you understand it.

www.nefmoto.com <-- Knowledge.

EDIT: Finally, the Maestro update I as waiting for [cool]

Yeah I've been reading other information from other forums as well. It's like anything for me though, it helps a lot to actually have the thing you're reading about in front of you, and being able to work with it

[Bische]

Agreed, Bische. Which update were you waiting for?

It was just a bugfix update for my ECU type, I couldnt trace the flowmeter correction map and one of the adresses I supplied for map requests was mistyped when I emailed Tapp, that was fixed along with some other small fixes for my ECU.


Yeah I've been reading other information from other forums as well. It's like anything for me though, it helps a lot to actually have the thing you're reading about in front of you, and being able to work with it

Amen.

[ljones125]

Hey guys, new member to AZ here, been reading through this thread and theres some great information! I have my a 2001 s4 eurodyne tune running k04's. I read the beginning of this thread but eyes got heavy after the 5th page haha I was wondering if there was anyone on here who is also running a Stage 3 setup with K04's???Could you PM me please? I am new to tuning and trying to make the best out of this learning experience!

[Bische]

How long does it take for the LTFT to settle?

[EBG 18T]

How long does it take for the LTFT to settle?

Mine were usually constant within 20-30 miles of mixed driving.

[Bische]

Mine were usually constant within 20-30 miles of mixed driving.

Alright, thank you.

What is concidered "good" LTFT's and 02 correction?

[EBG 18T]

Alright, thank you.

What is concidered "good" LTFT's and 02 correction?

Mine are under 5. Most say under 10 is ok.

[a4darkness]

Going to start listening in here, need to get up to speed on things.

[thenj3]

what would be the best map to change engine load on a mafless system. my actual engine load is about half to 3/4 of the spec number and im not getting any timing advance during acceleration. im thinking this is due to the computer not seeing the load it needs to add timing. if i use quick tuning feature and add 5 degrees advance it holds that 5 degress through out the pull so i'm a little confused.

[613B6]

That's normal, your spec load will follow the VE curve. To increase advance go to your main timing map and trace back a log and you will see where it highlights. Increase those numbers where you want more timing. Also look at your IATs vs timing retard table and reduce the amount of pull if your still not hitting your mark. ( don't remove all timing retard as thats a safe guard) Part of the issue with mafless is the torque controll. With that sensor (maf) missing, I believe the ecu reduces based on having unmetered air flow be not being calculated.

[thenj3]

the problem isn't that the car is pulling more than i would like, it simply doesnt advance it. the timing just sits at 0 all the time except at idle and when i let off the gas it shoots up to 30 or so. but when i put my foot in it, it just stays at 0

[613B6]

was it doing that before you change the quick tune feature?

[thenj3]

yes. so then i was like maybe ill try adding timing with quick tune see if i get anything. so i sllid the bar to 5 advance. did a pull and it held the five all the way and drop to 4.5 or 4 towards like 7 grand. it would also retard .5-1 degree when the timing bar was at 0 so that pull is normal.

[613B6]

I can assume you have a normal looking timing map? If you want I can take a look at your file and a quick log. Just PM and I'aen send you my email if your interested.

[613B6]

Ive asked Chris to add a torque control removing fuction to the AMB engine code in maestro, this should remove the timing limiting influnces on hopefully 100% load.

Ive maxed my timing at 18 degrees no matter what which is common as I assume onces the MAF and other sensors start seeing big metered air flow. I know the AWP has this option from looking through the base files that users can choose, so hopefully it will allow for a few more degrees.

[jaychen]

Is it possible to adjust boost (desired) via Maestro?

Do you guys run a MBC? If so, parallel/or standalone?

[thenj3]

Ive asked Chris to add a torque control removing fuction to the AMB engine code in maestro, this should remove the timing limiting influnces on hopefully 100% load.

Ive maxed my timing at 18 degrees no matter what which is common as I assume onces the MAF and other sensors start seeing big metered air flow. I know the AWP has this option from looking through the base files that users can choose, so hopefully it will allow for a few more degrees.

can you explain to me what torque control does? this feature was selected as on in my base file he sent me. i wonder if these needs to be switched off and that this is the reason im having issue with the car generating timing. i have been adding timing with the quick tune feature, im up to about 18 degrees, but the car doesn't feel faster at all lol. when i get a chance ill take some new logs and send them to you if you wouldn't mind looking at them.

[thenj3]

well i emailed tapp about my no timing issue from the base tune. ended up being that the "switch enabling" box was not checked in the quick tune feature. he sent me a key code to activate and and boom running off the timing maps now. but my car is still barely faster than my frankenturbo set up. can somebody tell my what torque control is, and whether or not it should be on or off? i read something about it but the wording confused me and didn't give me a definite answer.

[Bische]

Tq control is exactly what it is called, it controls the torque.

If the management sees more torque then what it is supposed to, it will take several actions to reduce torque.

[MmmBoost]

I think before you start tuning your car you should probably understand how the system actually works............. might be a good place to start


Bosch ME 7+ part 1 (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Bosch-MEMotronic-System-Part-1/A_108379/article.html)

Bosch ME 7+ part 2 (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Bosch-MEMotronic-System-Part-2/A_108380/article.html)

[Bische]

+1

Dont alter something you dont understand, #1 rule.

[613B6]

That's a bull shit rule. I wouldn't know half of what I know about maestro without diving into unfamiliar maps.

[Bische]

That's a bull shit rule. I wouldn't know half of what I know about maestro without diving into unfamiliar maps.

To each and own, ofcourse. I also use trial and error in some situations.

But then again, theres not many maps defined in Maestro, yet you could cause permanent damage if done wrong. I wouldnt recommend this approach when tuning the TQ model/AR though.

[Bische]

Is there any of you guys that would be interested in a feature that would allow us to add maps ourselfs in Maestro?

[Hansi]

Is there any of you guys that would be interested in a feature that would allow us to add maps ourselfs in Maestro?

I would.

[bananas]

Is there any of you guys that would be interested in a feature that would allow us to add maps ourselfs in Maestro?

How do you think this proposed feature would work?

[Bische]

How do you think this proposed feature would work?

You would basicly be filling out a form with map/axis data addresses, factors and naming. I am no programmer, but that is how it is done in other apps and it works.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4790/winols.jpg

[Johnny1.8T]

so ive been doing a little bit of reading (about three pages worth in this thread so far and some other threads) and i was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on coming up with a E85 tune. im looking to get into BT's in the near future and id like to get set up with a nice E85 tune and a 93 tune also. If/ when i made the move to BT id be getting Maestro too and ive been thinking about trying to come up with something for E85. I know the pros and cons between E and 93, one of the main ones being the availability. ive got plenty by me so im interested. anyways, im going to continue reading this thread and others about tuning and Maestro. just thought maybe we could all collaborate on the topic (maybe its been covered already and i just havent gotten to that point yet). anyone have any thoughts about it?

[Wet0willy01]

I picked up my B6S4 4.2l V8 MAF and housing for ~90 bucks on ebay.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mass-Flow-Sensor-Audi-S8-S4-S6-01-02-03-04-05-06-09-077-133-471-K-/310383086867?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2004|Model%3AS4&hash=item4844460d13

Another one I just came across....

[613B6]

So I finally got the chance to try out a modified file that disables the timing limiting function as part of tq control. Basically in my file over 100% load it will use the direct values right from the main timing map without manipulation. Why I asked for this as many discovered timing becomes limited when air flow exceeds certain parameters and the tq control wont allow any more advance.

I was able to add a few degrees at peak tq and ramp in timing hard in the top end really taking advantage of the setup plus the added benefit of the meth system. The other very noticable benefit besides the more power was how smooth the pull is now as your timing no longer jumps around from being manipulate. I believe chris said he is trying to upload this into the new up date in maestro, plus you will get the option of picking the switch over point therefore you can build an entire timing map to your likings. Time to explore race gas and mile high timing!

[SleeperAvant]

So I finally got the chance to try out a modified file that disables the timing limiting function as part of tq control. Basically in my file over 100% load it will use the direct values right from the main timing map without manipulation. Why I asked for this as many discovered timing becomes limited when air flow exceeds certain parameters and the tq control wont allow any more advance.

I was able to add a few degrees at peak tq and ramp in timing hard in the top end really taking advantage of the setup plus the added benefit of the meth system. The other very noticable benefit besides the more power was how smooth the pull is now as your timing no longer jumps around from being manipulate. I believe chris said he is trying to upload this into the new up date in maestro, plus you will get the option of picking the switch over point therefore you can build an entire timing map to your likings. Time to explore race gas and mile high timing!

Hallelujah! Any screenshots of this?

[613B6]

There is nothing dif in my file visually, however if you look at mk4 base files in meastro there's a toggle button to activate it. After that its just your normal timing map but remember that whats on the map will happens live...reduce your values first then work up until it knocks.

[SleeperAvant]

Sounds good.

[Bische]

Im not looking forward to deal with the torque monitoring/ARMD, but I have to loosen it up since im already getting level 1 interventions at 18psi lol.

Curious how he did to monitor below 100% load and not above.. I know how to kill it, but I would honestly like to tune it instead.

EDIT: I clearly have an interminent reading attention disorder, he killed timing intervention over 100% rl, not the monitoring as a function. Thats another story [:)]

[Bische]

I forgot to mention that the traction control is controlled within the TQ monitoring function, so with the timing intervention disabled over 100% rl, the traction control looses its ability to lightly reduce torque. Possibly going to cause heavy bucking(from closing/reopening the throttle) when small interventions is needed, like going over a bump while accelerating.

Be cautious while testing.

[613B6]

It doesn't seem to cause any issues. I had the traction control engage today rolling on second gear.

[pape]

So this is going to be available soon in an update?

is your file the only one that has this option on the B6 models?

[Bische]

It doesn't seem to cause any issues. I had the traction control engage today rolling on second gear.

That is [up]

Does your timing strictly follow your timing table at WOT without any ocillations now?

[EBG 18T]

It doesn't seem to cause any issues. I had the traction control engage today rolling on second gear.

Good stuff.

[613B6]

That is [up]

Does your timing strictly follow your timing table at WOT without any ocillations now?

Yep! Basically from about 3500rpm and up during WOT. ITs sweet and yes it will come in an update soon.

[homegrowna4]

I am new to the forum and also fairly new to maestro. I have been struggling with knock correction since I started tuning. After reading through this thread I was convinced it was "false knock"
I recently installed my dual nozzle snow performance wm kit, and I still have the same amount of knock correction. Is it safe to say now that it is false? and how do I tune around this?
I do have stern motor mounts which cause alot of vibration, and JE pistons which I think is causing the knock sensors to pick up unwanted noise.

[Bische]

Yep! Basically from about 3500rpm and up during WOT. ITs sweet and yes it will come in an update soon.

Nice, but I ditched Maestro like one month ago [:p]

[613B6]

No one cares :)

[bananas]

No one cares :)

I do [:P]

[Bische]

No one cares :)

lol [:D]

I would be happy to be able to use Maestro, it is a very potential suite, but the more I involved myself with more experienced people the more horror stories I have heard.. And when he made a mistake in my file, causing my car to run UBER lean under FULL load(and then denying anything was wrong with his definition, until I put the evidence right under his nose. Thats when he stopped responding, again), that was the nail in the coffin for me.

I wish me and Tapp could get along, but his attitude versus paying customers is just horrible at times. He up front told me he was sick of wasting time on me, and I have never ever felt so bad doing business with anyone. I now have a $1000 dollar cable to read fault codes with lol, but im glad I made the jump to hex tuning, it was only a matter of time im afraid.

Now I have nothing holding me back, I have access to whatever I feel like and is able to tune any car I want. Thats the culprit with Maestro, once you learn enough to make the ECU output what you want, you basicly have the knowledge to write your own file and you will want access to alot more than Tapp offers in his definitions.

[screwball]

He is a Canadian and a programmer, what did you expect lol..

I didn't expect Mrs Doubtfire when I dealt with him, but I did expect more like you probably did. I spoke to my dealer and got most of the answers I needed to not sell this software and move on. It's still potentially a lot more capable than Unitronic if you go changing your setup out of the basefiles they've got which is a growing number of users. I don't say that to take away from some of Uni's tunes overall, a few of their tunes are really quite refined and will absolutely run well straight out of the box. The beef I think a lot of us had was it was largely misrepresented as a "flash and you're done type of software suite" that gave you the option to tweak stuff. Basefile Vs basefile on a basic hardware setup I thought Uni had a much stronger file than Tapp did which was not the feedback I'd gotten when I switched from Uni to Eurodyne. I still think a lot of people don't fully grasp that you're going to have to figure out the basics of dialing some stuff in and tweaking your flash pretty early on with Eurodyne. Even with all the new basefiles and additional mapping access in the latest updates and surely the new updates to come, there's still all kinds of issues with files that are available and considered "done" by them.

[aaronamerica]

hey guys I finally bought Maestro also for my b6 A4....I've had it on my b5 A4 for about a years tuned for e85 and still love it....the key with this software is patience....but coming from an aeb to amb maestro tune, it's totally different and lots more functions lol

anymore updates regarding the timing settings...I've tried all different ways to get it to run more timing but something is holding it back....what seem to work was setting the "minimum timing" map to 0 or more

[Overkill]

Been doing some tuning lately with Maestro on my 2003 B6 1.8t and currently I am running 100% E85. Tuned first on the stock injectors and quickly maxed them out so now I am on the Siemens 630cc and dialed them in without issue. I am currently trying to tweak my start-up to get the car to start on the first cranking try. It starts to catch, but fails and then the very next try it cranks right up. Anyone have any luck getting it to start on the first try when cold (50 degree mornings)? Just trying to get things straightened out before the cold really hits.

[Dolphin18T]

Been doing some tuning lately with Maestro on my 2003 B6 1.8t and currently I am running 100% E85. Tuned first on the stock injectors and quickly maxed them out so now I am on the Siemens 630cc and dialed them in without issue. I am currently trying to tweak my start-up to get the car to start on the first cranking try. It starts to catch, but fails and then the very next try it cranks right up. Anyone have any luck getting it to start on the first try when cold (50 degree mornings)? Just trying to get things straightened out before the cold really hits.

Stock fuel pump?

[EBG 18T]

Stock fuel pump?

given the fueling requirments of a car tuned with E85 and larger fuel injectors i would think the stock pump would be maxed out..

[Dolphin18T]

given the fueling requirments of a car tuned with E85 and larger fuel injectors i would think the stock pump would be maxed out..

Indeed. I just wanted to make sure. I'm thinking his problem might be the check valve (or lack there of) on his pump. Same thing happens to me.

[aaronamerica]

you've tried tweeking the cranking fuel map?

I used to have this issue with my aeb maestro tune but it has a cranking constant map which I had to raise pretty high to get the car to start on the first crank

[AudiHere04]

not sure if this is the place to be posting this. I am in NY, anyone with Maestro pass inspections? I have heard a lot of mixed stories of people passing and not passing.
Also I am still getting a Cel for evap code...will pull codes and get more details.

[AudiA4_20T]

I need to get into this again, somehow

[613B6]

not sure if this is the place to be posting this. I am in NY, anyone with Maestro pass inspections? I have heard a lot of mixed stories of people passing and not passing.
Also I am still getting a Cel for evap code...will pull codes and get more details.

You should have no issues if your tune is on, I passed with cleaner numbers than stock. (ID 725, 340 fuel pump, big turbo, colder plugs, removed SAI, no codes)

[SleeperAvant]

You should have no issues if your tune is on, I passed with cleaner numbers than stock. (ID 725, 340 fuel pump, big turbo, colder plugs, removed SAI, no codes)

this the OBD test or sniffer test?

[mrbdrm]

Hello
this is my first post here :)
yesterday i installed maestro with base map for stage 2 ( car seat leon 2010 cupra 2.0 ) and it runs fine but i did a log and there is alot of corrections on the cylinders and the boost is kinda low for stage 2 with HPFP , i wish someone with more experience can look at the log please ? its a 4th pull
http://www.shaqra-email.com/upload/do.php?id=25

[bananas]

Hello
this is my first post here :)
yesterday i installed maestro with base map for stage 2 ( car seat leon 2010 cupra 2.0 ) and it runs fine but i did a log and there is alot of corrections on the cylinders and the boost is kinda low for stage 2 with HPFP , i wish someone with more experience can look at the log please ? its a 4th pull
http://www.shaqra-email.com/upload/do.php?id=25

Short, quick answers:

Your file is requesting about 17psi, that's not crazy low. Your turbo is keeping up with requested pretty well. You can increase requested boost by increasing Maximum VE table. I suspect are pulling lots of timing because the file is written for very good (high octane) fuel and yours might suck. I'd reduce requested timing from your timing map until you pull 3 degrees or less. For a quick trial of how much timing to pull from the map as a starting point, you can use the "quick tune" feature and remove timing there until you are at 0CF (this removes it everywhere, even at idle and cruise, etc).

[mrbdrm]

thank you bananas
but my ecu is med9 , can i use the quick tune feature?
also do i have to tune any other map ? or the max VE is enough to rise the boost ?
thank you in advance

[bananas]

thank you bananas
but my ecu is med9 , can i use the quick tune feature?
also do i have to tune any other map ? or the max VE is enough to rise the boost ?
thank you in advance
I haven't used me9, so I dunno.
Max VE is probably enough to increase requested boost. Again, I haven't used ME9.

[mrbdrm]

i have tryed using the quick tune and it dosn't work for me it says me7 only
so witch maps do i have to tune ? here are all the maps i see in maestro :
http://www.shaqra-email.com/upload/uploads/shaqraedu_135072057624.png

[aaronamerica]

i have tryed using the quick tune and it dosn't work for me it says me7 only
so witch maps do i have to tune ?

how much boost are you trying make?

[mrbdrm]

19-20 PSI
i have changed the VE table 2 times but the requestid is still the same .
do you think i need to tune target filling ?

[aaronamerica]

19-20 PSI
i have changed the VE table 2 times but the requestid is still the same .
do you think I need to tune target filling ?

nope all you do is go to your boost duty map and add 3 to the whole 100% value numbers...from 1000-70000rpm so for example if your values are 65.500 from 1-7000rpm your new value will be 68.500

if adding three doesn't get you there try like 5 in increments

[mrbdrm]

as i read this is n75 map , and its close to 100% , also what map does control the timing ? i want to retard it untill i get my w/m
http://www.shaqra-email.com/upload/uploads/shaqraedu_135075661424.png

[aaronamerica]

yes that boost map look very similar to my b6 avant stage1 map..... so in your 95% tps column add increments of three or five.....set it to 98 and see what happens...that should add lil more boost

now your timing maps are way different from ours....I'm not really sure which map you should tweek since you have so many lol

[mrbdrm]

isn't this map for n75 ?
here is the map values : (can i push them more?)
http://www.shaqra-email.com/upload/uploads/shaqraedu_135075661424.png

[aaronamerica]

hell yes man...when I was in stage one tune I had it set to 120 lol

[mrbdrm]

sorry for the double posts
i will try that , thanks :)

[mrbdrm]

i opend the log inside maestro to track the changes and here is the result
http://www.shaqra-email.com/upload/uploads/shaqraedu_135077117328.png
with a hard 4th pull i never reach the 95 value in the duty map as in the PID i do .
did you mean PID ?

[aaronamerica]

what does your tps show under WOT in the log, I'm wondering is something keeping your throttle from opening 100%...any check engine light?

[mrbdrm]

here it is :
http://www.shaqra-email.com/upload/uploads/shaqraedu_135080541110.png
there is no CEL or errors in the car

[aaronamerica]

your throttle is not opened 100% on that log....your only at 60%

[mrbdrm]

thats weird ...
do you think i need some adjustment to the TB ? or should i log the TPS with VAG-COM first ?

[SleeperAvant]

Question guys:

The latest version of Maestro now includes the ability to enable both rear 02 (this was included in previous versions), and now SAI function, but without throwing a CEL. I have both enabled and there are no faults.

Does this mean the readiness is available and good to pass for OBD emissions testing? How can I check before going in for a test?

[Dan[FN]6262]

hook up vag com and check readiness.?

[00black1.8t]

To start I am familiar with tuning and everything on Meastro. I am just trying to learn about what values work with closed loop and why my idle and cruzing speed is a little wack.

To explain whats happening:

I am sure the constant/battery Comp/pulse widths are off.

Warm up idle is great, idle with clutch depressed is 99%.

After the system switches to closed loop the idle has a bit of a hiccup/misfire sound to it. While cruzing down the highway with cruz on it does the same hiccup/ lamba bouncing. I have the logs if anyone wants to review them for me as well a videos. The lamba values bounce from extreme opposites and thats probably a root of the problem or at least where to start. I have worked all different injector constants. The base constant for my set up should be .052 I have gone as high as .057 and as low and .047 The idle is closest at .055. I know its not uncommon to have to adjust the constant. I have also logged idle and cruzing speed to see if Maestro could correct the issue itself but no luck. I am thinking it might have more to do with a bad sensor or something. I am running maf less.

Set up
GT3071R
Siemons 630 cc injectors, stock 3 bar fpr, and walbro in tank fuel pump

Cruzing Lamba vs Requested
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/snowboarder1921/Misc/Maestro/Cruzing_zps3268cffb.png

Cruzing Through the gears Lamba vs Requested
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/snowboarder1921/Misc/Maestro/GearShiftLamba_zpsced43b44.png

Any suggestions would be helpful.

[aaronamerica]

I was dealing with a similar situation with my avant which has a k04....I could not get it to idle smooth at all until I raised the battery voltage like 25% and that solved it but then the car would idle super rich.....I tried every setting in maestro to resolve this with no luck, so I just decided that this car just doesn't like the siemen 630cc injectors so I but my stock injectors back in and all is good now.

[Audiguy1234]

The base maps are located in Maestro when you open it up. I think if you just look under file or something and it will show base map. Hope that helps.

[Audiguy1234]

Oh you would have to rescale your map to 550cc or what injector you have. Injector wizard can be helpful to change the injector constant.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

[Dan[FN]6262]

Buy a 4.2 maf and leave it in its housing. Then load that maf profile. Don't use that shit match and piece stuff you have

[Bische]

Is there anyone in the Ogden SLC area that would be willing to help me out with maestro?

If I had the time I would help you get started, is all the hardware installed and you have no tune?

[Dan[FN]6262]

lol... it is a base file.

[daihashi]

No one is going to walk you through this step by step. I suggest you start your learning with this: http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/wiki/index.php/ME7_Tuning_Information

followed by reading the Bosch ME7.x Funktionsrahmen.. which can be found in post #6 of this thread, by a user called Matt Danger:

http://www.nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php/topic,555.0/topicseen.html

If you don't understand any of that, then I suggest you search and read as much of that forum as possible to try to make sense of things. www.ecuconnections.com also has an Bosch ME7.x community and you can learn quite a bit there.

If you still can't grasp any of the concepts, and how the maps are related to one another then Maestro is just not meant for you and you should consider selling it and getting an OTS tune; or taking your car to someone who can tune Maestro and let them do it for you.

Not trying to be rude, just honest. This isn't something that should be blindly done by only following a series of steps, and I don't think anyone is going to volunteer to be your personal teacher.

[Bische]

Looks like you are on the rich side and the fuel trims are disabled, have you unplugged EVAP stuff?

[MmmBoost]

Symptoms like this have been covered before in this thread........but I'm feeling generous.


You are far too rich at idle and your 02 corrections are MAXED which means either/and:

#1 Your Battery Voltage Compensation values are too high.....you're going to need to lower the curve.

#2 o2 correction shuts off when the ECU reaches the minimum injection pulsewidth.......so you're going to want to lower the Minumum Injection Pulsewidth. Stock is around 0.6......mine is at .15. This should prevent O2 correction from shutting off leaving you stuck idling at anything less than 14.7


Also.......what do you mean by "scaled tt225 maf"


What sensor are you running? Your 1.8T sensor in the TT225 housing? or the complete TT225 MAF? Define: scaled.

[dougyfresh]

Define: scaled.

When I read that all I kept thinking about was that graph Vinny posted one day. Where is that graph? I think it needs to make an appearance.

[MmmBoost]

When I read that all I kept thinking about was that graph Vinny posted one day. Where is that graph? I think it needs to make an appearance.

Not on here much these days.......no idea what you're talking about.


Thank you.I Will take a look at it when i get home.I'm running the complete tt225 maf I went into flow meter went to the drop Down menu that says load maf profile and selected tt225 maf.

Good news. I was hoping this was your answer.


Yes all the evap related stuff is removed.and I didn't change anything from the base tune in the evap configuration

You need to go into the evap stuff and start turning off the right switches based on what you have done to your car.

[dougyfresh]

Not on here much these days.......no idea what you're talking about.


It was from a long time ago. I think it was his 100rpm PowerBand curve he sketched up.

[Bische]

Yes all the evap related stuff is removed.and I didn't change anything from the base tune in the evap configuration

Called it [cool]

See if there is any switch to turn off EVAP diagnosis.

[Bische]

as of right now IC is at 0.057281 and minimum injector pulse width is at 0.600075 where should I start?

IC sounds about right, bring TEMIN down to like 0.30.


ok,this is everything ive changed on the evap configuration so far.

Love how you take pics of your screen [:D]

Did you get your LRS back?

[MmmBoost]

You really shouldn't need to do much with the min. injection time "TEMIN"

Just set it low enough so it doesn't get in the way of o2 corrections.


You don't seem to really know how to tackle tuning your car.....not talking shit, I'm just stating an observation. There are two fundamental things you need to work on to get fueling in the right ballpark....your injection constant and your battery voltage compensation. Do you know what either of these "do" and how to tune them? If not, I would STRONGLY suggest doing some more reading on the subject so you aren't just blindly guessing or asking a million questions. And this HAS been covered before in THIS thread........so you might want to go back and re-read this thread since you told me that you've already read it.

[Bische]

Haha thanks.IC is what the base file came with.so bring the minimum injector pulse width down to 0.300075 and start from there....LRS?

Sounds good, LRS = o2 correction.


You really shouldn't need to do much with the min. injection time "TEMIN"

Just set it low enough so it doesn't get in the way of o2 corrections.

Please elaborate.

[MmmBoost]

What do you want me to elaborate on?

[Bische]

What do you want me to elaborate on?

Your reasoning behind calibrating TEMIN :)

[WTFISAKSERIES]

Does anyone know how many times you can reflash ur car with this unit

[MmmBoost]

Your reasoning behind calibrating TEMIN :)

When TEMIN is too high, the ECU hits it's shortest injector-on-time (voltage latency + injection time) and cannot go any lower than this. o2 correction just shuts off....even if you are not at Stoich. This normally isn't an issue.....except for when you put on injectors MUCH larger than stock. It will only cause an issue at idle because this is when injection values are the shortest and requested torque is very low.


Does anyone know how many times you can reflash ur car with this unit

um......there isn't a limit.

[Bische]

Does anyone know how many times you can reflash ur car with this unit

There is no limit on a number of flash uploads. I have flashed my personal ECU over 350 times, maybe closer to 400 by now lol

Time to purchase an emulator now [;)]

[Bische]

When TEMIN is too high, the ECU hits it's shortest injector-on-time (voltage latency + injection time) and cannot go any lower than this. o2 correction just shuts off....even if you are not at Stoich. This normally isn't an issue.....except for when you put on injectors MUCH larger than stock. It will only cause an issue at idle because this is when injection values are the shortest and requested torque is very low.

Sooo, why doesnt everyone just put 0 TEMIN?

And idle is not where the lowest pulsewidth request is, it is just before it snaps to SA.

[MmmBoost]

Because you'd be stupid to put in a TEMIN of 0. Do most people understand that injectors flowrates are non-linear at very low injection times? probably not..... Should they? Yes.....

TEMIN isn't quite as simple as I led to believe in my post, but it is nowhere near as critical to have right and tune as KRKTE...especially since most of us are running fairly small injectors still <1000cc. I would sooner turn it down lower than I need and be certain I'm at Stoich....as I don't really have to worry about misfiring. I haven't had ANY issues with misfires due to innacurate fueling at low pulsewidths. Maybe it's thanks to the linearity of my ID725s.....maybe it's thanks to my rising rate fuel pressure system vs. the 4-bar static.


aaaaaaaaaaaaand for reference on TEMIN shutting off O2 correction:

http://i.imgur.com/r9DMXRM.jpg

[Bische]

Because you'd be stupid to put in a TEMIN of 0. Do most people understand that injectors flowrates are non-linear at very low injection times? probably not..... Should they? Yes.....

TEMIN isn't quite as simple as I led to believe in my post, but it is nowhere near as critical to have right and tune as KRKTE. I would sooner turn it down lower than I need and be certain I'm at Stoich....as I don't really have to worry about misfiring. I haven't had ANY issues with misfires due to innacurate fueling at low pulsewidths. Maybe it's thanks to my ID725s.....maybe it's thanks to my rising rate fuel pressure system vs. the 4-bar static.

Great, then we are on the same page [up]

I did get the feeling you didnt have a 100% understanding of the TEMIN's purpose, partially by the way you described your calibration approach and partially me being a nitpick lol

To break it down for anyone else eager to learn, here is a graph from the ID1000 linearity deviation sheet:
http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000LD4B.gif

Focus on the green line which represents 14v, when the curve lines up to the 0 row the injector is linear. When it starts opening under ~2.5ms it starts to go non-linear, injecting less fuel then it is "supposed" to, but still injecting clean.

This can and should be compensated for, but then when you start to reach the little knee at ~1.5ms, the injection starts being irregular and the injector sputters or drips. That is where TEMIN comes into play, to limit the injection time to go down where the injection isnt clean anymore.

Here is what it looks like in a log when you are getting down in that range:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1218/bische120130306142226.png

[MmmBoost]

I fully understand the concept.......don't worry, Biche. I spent MONTHS translating German technical documents....drawing diagrams.....writing in a notebook.....tracing values in the Funktionsrahmen, and reading tuning information (motronic, various other OEM, and stand-alone) to understand how things work and WHY they work the way they do. That's why it frustrates me when people don't put any effort in themselves and just want to leach off those that ARE willing to learn and figure out how all of this works. I'm not saying you should have to memorize all 10000000 variables in the Funktionsrahmen, but at least try and read the information that some VERY generous people have spent time putting together to try and help guide people in the right direction. (ie. the S4 tuning wiki)

I just wasn't going to get into gross details because I felt like it would go over peoples heads. Seems like a LOT of people who hop on the Maestro wagon just want to crank up everything and get the car running the way they want without understanding the concepts and purposes of the maps and factors. This is why when people ask me about going with Maestro I don't just say, "Yeah man.....it's super easy and user friendly....I don't know why everyone doesn't do it." Or when people ask me to tune their car.....I don't just tell them exactly what to do. I'll help and guide....but I'm not going to do it for them.

I know you're not one of those people......hence why I was curious as to why you were asking me to elaborate in the first place.

[Hansi]

TEMIN, TVUB and KRKTE has been covered fairly good. TVUB isn't very easy to get right on big injectors (I have ID1000s) based on long term O2 corrections (LRS is it now?) though? I tried for a while, but it seemed to go up and down, I couldn't get it to settle around +-3% or so, never figured it out. I later read (I think it was Bische who wrote it?), that this is because the injection correction map (FKKVS?) has to be set on big injectors for it to "settle". Next problem for me is figuring out how to do that, without doing it wrong and making changes in FKKVS that should have been done in some other map, for instance KFKHFM. I have no way of going back to stock injectors (stroked/bored engine) nor stock MAF setup (custom manifold). Maybe one of you guys can help me with this?

I bought Maestro only to use it to tune my own car, and sadly there's a limit to how much time I am willing to spend doing that vs just going to a professional custom tuner. I was hoping that as more people learned it, more info would be shared and it would be easier to learn enough to self-tune your car to a decent state. It seems the people who do learn it make such a big effort learning it that they don't want to share the info outright, they want people to learn themselves the same way they did, AKA the hard way, no "spoon-feeding". Some good info is leaked occasionally, like this discussion, and I guess that's good.

Anyways, I'm very interested in learning more, or that one of the Gurus could help me with a remote tune for payment of course, contact me if interested [:)]

[Bische]

I know you're not one of those people......hence why I was curious as to why you were asking me to elaborate in the first place.

I know exactly what you mean man.

I was asking because your opinion differed from my opinion regarding TEMIN, and TEMIN/TEMINVA is "always" a discussion topic with as many theorys, as there are people turning the Motronic knobs [:)]


TEMIN, TVUB and KRKTE has been covered fairly good. TVUB isn't very easy to get right on big injectors (I have ID1000s) based on long term O2 corrections (LRS is it now?) though? I tried for a while, but it seemed to go up and down, I couldn't get it to settle around +-3% or so, never figured it out. I later read (I think it was Bische who wrote it?), that this is because the injection correction map (FKKVS?) has to be set on big injectors for it to "settle". Next problem for me is figuring out how to do that, without doing it wrong and making changes in FKKVS that should have been done in some other map, for instance KFKHFM. I have no way of going back to stock injectors (stroked/bored engine) nor stock MAF setup (custom manifold). Maybe one of you guys can help me with this?

I bought Maestro only to use it to tune my own car, and sadly there's a limit to how much time I am willing to spend doing that vs just going to a professional custom tuner. I was hoping that as more people learned it, more info would be shared and it would be easier to learn enough to self-tune your car to a decent state. It seems the people who do learn it make such a big effort learning it that they don't want to share the info outright, they want people to learn themselves the same way they did, AKA the hard way, no "spoon-feeding". Some good info is leaked occasionally, like this discussion, and I guess that's good.

Anyways, I'm very interested in learning more, or that one of the Gurus could help me with a remote tune for payment of course, contact me if interested [:)]

Forget about tuning TVUB based on trims, KRKTE too if you are running large injectors like the ID1000's. Looking at that linearity chart above along with this info, holds the answer why. [;)]

I would not hesitate to teach you everything I know, but it takes alot of time to take in and takes alot of dedication. To really get in the loop you have to eat, breath, sleep Motronic. Even then, you still run into problems you cannot solve without having to disassemble the code, then you will have to start all over again learning something even more complex...

I dont mind sharing info, but just telling one other what numbers to put in which cell, will not teach him WHY that number goes there. You need to learn how everything correlates and which change equal which results, getting the answer without knowing why will just bring up more questions.


Do you have your car up and running now mr. Marius?