k16/ko4

[esss_pho]

see numbers like that make me want to stray away from str8 k04's to the k04/k16

[NYCVR6]

Here is a graph of his dyno from AW. His name is k04/rs6north

[esss_pho]

OooO i like

[Bastard]

Lol. We have the exact same setup. No way in hell it can make 500whp.

[esss_pho]

seems like your doing something wrong

[Bastard]

lol

sure i am.

oh. and he isnt making 500whp either, or cant you read a dyno chart.

[esss_pho]

but he sure is pretty close...where are you at

[Turtle]

http://www.nogaroblue.com/8607/8974.html

this guy has a nice website with a lot of info. Looks like he is running K04/K16 hybrids and it doesnt mention any problems with them

[Bastard]

but he sure is pretty close...where are you at

400 and change on pump gas, full exhaust, cats etc.

and a very low reading dyno.

[esss_pho]

str8 k04's?

[Bastard]

rs6 hybrids

[esss_pho]

hmmm cause that nagaro blue fellow i went to his site and he claims 500whp and the same numbers for torque...i am just thinking of what i want to do before i go out buying stuff i am not going to be satisfied with in the long run i have done that with too many of my honda 's and i would like to do it right on my ess

[Clay @ Kinetic]

I have the same setup as this RS6 north fellow, even software, in addition I have ported intake mani's, ported and polished heads (too many hours into these $$$), CAT springs & retainers, pulleys, spacers etc.

We'll see what mine does on a very conservative dyno dynamics when its done.

[Bastard]

hmmm cause that nagaro blue fellow i went to his site and he claims 500whp and the same numbers for torque...i am just thinking of what i want to do before i go out buying stuff i am not going to be satisfied with in the long run i have done that with too many of my honda 's and i would like to do it right on my ess

hes not claiming shit. read it again.

[10SecS4]

hybrids will plug into ANY standard stage3 setup with no problems.

Try telling that to the few dozen enthusiasts who had to replace their aftermarket hybrids due to failure.

OEM K04s are the way to go: Cheaper, more reliable, and to this day there is zero evidence that the hybrids can make more power than K04s when both are pushed to their limits.

The restriction on the K04 is the exhaust housing. So it doesn't matter if you install an RS6, K16, or K24 compressor wheel, because you're always going to be limited by the tiny exhaust housing. Clearancing, porting, polishing, and/or extrude honing the housings may help slightly, but these extremely expensive options do not justify their hefty price tag in my opinion.

[10SecS4]

what i meant by the most for my money is that i meant the best k04 turbo set up with out having to go to gt eliminators....

i am looking to get 500 to the wheel and i figured that the k16 would make more power than the k04 with similar mods

With custom tuning, open downpipes, and leaded race gas, DAP made 490-500whp on EPL's Mustang Dyno. He runs OEM K04 turbos.

[10SecS4]

A k04/rs6 car made just over 500whp on race gas with open DP's at EPL. But supposedly EPL's dyno reads a bit happy.

Whose car was this? Paul O's?

[10SecS4]

thanx...cut outs should have the same effect as open down pipes correct?

Pretty much, although some contend that with cut outs some of the exhaust can still make it through the rest of the system and muffler. That's a stretch...

[spturks]

time to take your MEDS and go to sleep!!your friend with the black evo has a cutout,tell him to open it while you go check to see if anything comes out the muffler.your not making any sense right now!!rs6 hybrids will BLOW AWAY straight k04`s!!!!!although you are right in that they are not reliable for the most part.the hybrids spool up very fast and have a lot less shaft spin to make more boost then k04`s and they generate less heat cause of the less shaft spin.GO TO SLEEP NOW

[10SecS4]

time to take your MEDS and go to sleep!!your friend with the black evo has a cutout,tell him to open it while you go check to see if anything comes out the muffler.your not making any sense right now!!rs6 hybrids will BLOW AWAY straight k04`s!!!!!although you are right in that they are not reliable for the most part.the hybrids spool up very fast and have a lot less shaft spin to make more boost then k04`s and they generate less heat cause of the less shaft spin.GO TO SLEEP NOW

Hey, I never said I bought into that theory. In fact, I said just the opposite by calling it a "stretch." If there were any truth to it, I could see it happening more so on a cutout setup like Mark P's since there isn't all that much of a gap in the exhaust system with the way his cutouts are rigged up.

If RS6 hybrids will "blow away" straight K04s, how come DAP's K04 S4 is putting down approximately the same power as other EPL tuned RS6 hybrid S4s? Compare his race gas numbers to Paul O's and they are very similar. So then how do you justify spending the extra $3,000+ for the RS6 hybrids with all of the hotside mods?

[spturks]

first off dap was on race gas while paul was on pump,second you could push over 30lbs of boost with hybrids like mike m. or snow trooper(name a k04 car that has done that) .so how could you say" and to this day there is zero evidence that the hybrids can make more power than K04s when both are pushed to their limits" when hybrids push more boost with less heat?

[spturks]

i never said it is' justifed" to spend all that $$$$ on non reliable hybrids cause it cost a lot of money in labor to change them.thats why i have straight k04`s cause its my DD.but seriously you are wrong about k04`s and hybrids being the same and you know it too.

[esss_pho]

str8 k04's it is...

i just want the best bang for my buck...i can also get the porting done for fairly cheap from a friend of mine...is it worth doing

[NYCVR6]

Whose car was this? Paul O's?

Yep exactly. I met up with Paul and spoke with him about his setup. He told me he didnt have the car tuned for maximum power, but was looking for the best power curve for road racing. I believe he mentioned that they made just over 500whp with open dumps and race gas, seems like a straight shooter, so i have no reason to think he is embellishing the numbers.

[esss_pho]

that must be a nice week end car

[Bastard]

Try telling that to the few dozen enthusiasts who had to replace their aftermarket hybrids due to failure.

OEM K04s are the way to go: Cheaper, more reliable, and to this day there is zero evidence that the hybrids can make more power than K04s when both are pushed to their limits.

The restriction on the K04 is the exhaust housing. So it doesn't matter if you install an RS6, K16, or K24 compressor wheel, because you're always going to be limited by the tiny exhaust housing. Clearancing, porting, polishing, and/or extrude honing the housings may help slightly, but these extremely expensive options do not justify their hefty price tag in my opinion.

First failures were due partly to a bunch of shit center sections. As for the rest. A lot of these guys producing hybrids are overcharging. a LOT.

I agree they are not worth the premium that some of these people are charging. Myself and others have not paid that much. Not even close.

I put 20 hours of machining into mine, hogged out the exhaust housing as much as possible and ported the wastegates. The turbos have a lot of power left in them.

[Clay @ Kinetic]

*grabs some popcorn*

[esss_pho]

so where can i get some inexpensive reliable hybrids

[Bastard]

Im not allowed to say, but he's posted in this thread. :D

[spturks]

and he is eating some popcorn

ps. and i am waiting on some turbos at cost from him

[10SecS4]

first off dap was on race gas while paul was on pump,second you could push over 30lbs of boost with hybrids like mike m. or snow trooper(name a k04 car that has done that) .so how could you say" and to this day there is zero evidence that the hybrids can make more power than K04s when both are pushed to their limits" when hybrids push more boost with less heat?

Incorrect. When Paul O put down around ~500whp, he was on race gas too. That is a fact.

Please show me evidence of somebody holding 30psi of boost to redline with K04 backhousings.

If Mike Moore's car runs over 30lbs of boost and is so fast, how come his best time at the track is only a 12.0 @ 118-119 despite several outings? Don't even try saying he can't drive because we both know that's not true.

The fact is that an OEM K04 S4 like DAP's peaks at about the same horsepower as a similarly "maxed out" and custom tuned RS6 hybrid turbo S4 with hotside mods like Paul O's. They are both putting down right around 500whp on EPL's Dyno despite Paul having turbos that cost $2K to $3K more! It's clearly evident that the restriction is the exhaust housings so it doesn't matter what compressor wheels you stuff in there.

[10SecS4]

i never said it is' justifed" to spend all that $$$$ on non reliable hybrids cause it cost a lot of money in labor to change them.thats why i have straight k04`s cause its my DD.but seriously you are wrong about k04`s and hybrids being the same and you know it too.

Wow, more misinformation here. I wasn't talking about the extra labor of swapping the turbos out. I was talking about RS6 hybrids with all of the hotside mods costing upwards of $3K more than a set of OEM turbos. How can you justify spending the extra $3K when there is no evidence that they make anymore power than OEM K04s when both are maxed out?

[10SecS4]

and he is eating some popcorn

ps. and i am waiting on some turbos at cost from him

You should never mention something like this publically. This can hurt your sponsors' business because then everybody else out there will want stuff at cost too. Just a FYI FWIW.

[spturks]

you seriously have issues.didnt you trash dap about his number not being legit???you bash dap`s numbers and now you try to use it in your argument.when dap put down that 490whp it was on a special file just for that dyno day and there was no exhaust on that car either among other things.and i never said mike or anyone "sustained" over 30lbs of boost but you know they sustain more boost then what a k04 turbo could spike to without fucking up.i like the way you flip your views from AW compared to AZ.is it cause everyone is on to you at AW and the mods have banned you forever or is cause you need to impress you your knee pad wearing friends on AZ?

[spturks]

Wow, more misinformation here. I wasn't talking about the extra labor of swapping the turbos out. I was talking about RS6 hybrids with all of the hotside mods costing upwards of $3K more than a set of OEM turbos. How can you justify spending the extra $3K when there is no evidence that they make anymore power than OEM K04s when both are maxed out?

How is it $3k more??????rs6hybrids are Around $3600 with all the hotside mods and k04`s are around $2500 with hot side mods.WHATS WRONG WITH YOU TODAY?are you on medication or stopped taking your meds?for someone who i admit knows a lot of shit and who also knows the price of turbos telling people rs6 turbos cost extra $3k is "misinformation"!!!!!!

[spturks]

You should never mention something like this publically. This can hurt your sponsors' business because then everybody else out there will want stuff at cost too. Just a FYI FWIW.

dumb fuck mind your business.its public info on this forum when he told everyone i would get turbos at cost for guessing his hp on the dyno.remember now when he offered turbos at cost to who ever got the closest to guessing his hp before he put in his new turbos and tune??????????????????????????????????

[10SecS4]

I have always stated that EPL's dyno reads abnormally high for a Mustang, but that does not change anything when comparing one car on that high reading dyno to another. What we are comparing is the change between the two cars and a high reading dyno does not have any effect on that.

I've yet to see a dyno sheet for Paul O's car showing 490-500whp like DAP's K04 S4 put down. The sheet NYCVR6 posted above shows 450-460whp.

Paul O's car actually had more mods than DAP's. The Revolver Cams would be one such mod.

OK, so if you've admitted that the hybrids can't sustain 30psi of boost to redline, what good is it? Anyone can run their turbos wide open and see a 30psi flash at 3500 rpms. You can do that with K04s too. Heck, you could probably see close to that with K03s!

[spturks]

i cant believe your comparing k03`s to rs6`s now.that just made me laugh.

[spturks]

haha marc i just remembered something.remember when you told me you were getting rs6 turbos to finally get your car into the 10`s????????????????????????????????????? why when "heck" you could just put in k03`s

[10SecS4]

How is it $3k more??????rs6hybrids are Around $3600 with all the hotside mods and k04`s are around $2500 with hot side mods.WHATS WRONG WITH YOU TODAY?are you on medication or stopped taking your meds?for someone who i admit knows a lot of shit and who also knows the price of turbos telling people rs6 turbos cost extra $3k is "misinformation"!!!!!!

Once again you are spreading misinformation. A set of OEM K04s do not cost $2500. Recent group buy pricing have put them in the $1900 to $2000 range.

Now let's look at how much hybrids with the hot side most cost from looking at Jacob Buehn's webpage. This is the guy who supplies the vast majority of the S4 population with their hybrid turbos.

K04/RS6 turbos - $3300 (for both)
Port/Polish: $250 (for both)
Extrude Hone: $250 (for both)
Ceramic Coated Turbine Housings: (200 for both)
Clearanced Turbine Housings: ($220 for both)

When we total it all up, we come up with $4220 for a set of K04/RS6 hybrids with hotside mods. That puts the price of the hybrids with hotside mods at $2,200+ more than OEM K04s.