**OFFICIAL** Life Beyond Stage II: the higher stage development thread

[whiped]

I'm wondering this same thing. I am chipwerke stage 2 and have everything for dual pulley but been waiting until I decide which tune to go with. In the mean time I'm wondering if it's safe to install the crank pulley and cps and still just run chipwerke until I get a real flash tune. I do run an e85 blend already...



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CPS, absolutely.

Crank without at least a dedicated stage 2 tune I would wait on.

I'm in similar shoes, stage 1 tune on my car, using the CW to be "stage 2".

AWE coldfront made a big difference.

[Trent212]

So I wanted to run this by you guys a Gates Racing Micro-V Belts (K050507RB) 1298mm should work perfectly with a 57.xx and a 179mm crank, I wanted to be sure before I ordered a new belt.

[Loe]

Nice run, cant wait to see your cars full potential. Great finding for the defrost setting.

A local friend with an S4 showed me that trick and ran consistent high 11's on his APR2 93 pump (chrisucf99)

Well you're still faster than me lol. Nice find on the defrost setting brotha!

It's fully adapted now, so we will see if it's about to get faster! The only thing really holding me back is my ability to launch; hoping the logs I sent today will give me that ability back on a revised file. Right now, it's either full-LC, or laggy throttle stomp-n-go, no ability to use any up-swing for those lower-traction surfaces. My next opportunity is next week Thursday, Saturday at FIXXFEST, or Runday-Sunday (Sunday morning track is my best bet though, lows will be near 59F, with highs by 2pm at 75F, meaning D/A's should rise higher than 900ft...

thats if work doesn't take me out of state through the weekend...

Also forgot to add, this is back on my e85/93 37.7% mix. It's back and ready for action!

[ModItNow]

CPS, absolutely.

Crank without at least a dedicated stage 2 tune I would wait on.

I'm in similar shoes, stage 1 tune on my car, using the CW to be "stage 2".

AWE coldfront made a big difference.

Makes sense, that's man. Hopefully Apr can get their shit together haha


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[elijahallen]

20-140, mods in sig, 4 gallons of e85 to full tank of 93 and chipwerk set at 7-1. Its starting to get fast!

[Hofahome]

20-140, mods in sig, 4 gallons of e85 to full tank of 93 and chipwerk set at 7-1. Its starting to get fast!

good shit man!

[Loe]

Yes, thats moving!

[subwrx23]

Yes, thats moving!

I don't get the defroster setting...

[whiped]

Ignore the dirt

[Loe]

geoff, great reference pic, adding to post #1

[waxxonMTL]

Guys...

why can't I log with Vagcom ??

* Have the latest version of ross-tech, yes I turbo and yes I click group UDS.

1) what parameter do you use to log ? I currenctly use 10, could it be because I use too much, should I only use 8 ? if so, which one should I delete ?

Group 15 - Field 0 Vehicle speed
Group 25 - Field 0 Engine speed
Group 216 - Field 0 IGA_AD_1_KNK[0]
Group 222 - Field 0 Ignition angle; actual
Group 233 - Field 0 Lambda probes actual; bank1
Group 345 - Field 0 Air mass
Group 352 - Field 0 Intake manifold pressure
Group 556 - Field 0 Intake air temperature
Group 623 - Field 0 Charge air pressure specified value
Group 625 - Field 0 RFP_AV

2) Could it be that I use Windows 7 on an older core2duo processor with Excel 2007 ? In other word, I need to use a stronger computer ?

3) I also saw that rosstech have some parameter to speed up the data logging, but then it could create problem with connection between ECU, so not sure how it could be effective..

Without being able to log, theres no reason for me to go DP as epl tune require to show log..

Thanks for the help!

Here's a log I did for about 1 minutes just for a test. From what I can see this log is exactly like all the other log I provided EPL and they told me it was useless.. let see if you can tell me what's wrong with it ;

http://www.filedropper.com/log-01-ide000219

[Tony@EPL]

Guys...

why can't I log with Vagcom ??

* Have the latest version of ross-tech, yes I turbo and yes I click group UDS.

1) what parameter do you use to log ? I currenctly use 10, could it be because I use too much, should I only use 8 ? if so, which one should I delete ?

Group 15 - Field 0 Vehicle speed
Group 25 - Field 0 Engine speed
Group 216 - Field 0 IGA_AD_1_KNK[0]
Group 222 - Field 0 Ignition angle; actual
Group 233 - Field 0 Lambda probes actual; bank1
Group 345 - Field 0 Air mass
Group 352 - Field 0 Intake manifold pressure
Group 556 - Field 0 Intake air temperature
Group 623 - Field 0 Charge air pressure specified value
Group 625 - Field 0 RFP_AV

2) Could it be that I use Windows 7 on an older core2duo processor with Excel 2007 ? In other word, I need to use a stronger computer ?

3) I also saw that rosstech have some parameter to speed up the data logging, but then it could create problem with connection between ECU, so not sure how it could be effective..

Without being able to log, theres no reason for me to go DP as epl tune require to show log..

Thanks for the help!

Here's a log I did for about 1 minutes just for a test. From what I can see this log is exactly like all the other log I provided EPL and they told me it was useless.. let see if you can tell me what's wrong with it ;

http://www.filedropper.com/log-01-ide000219

Hi- 1. we don't require logs for dp files... Though its suggested if you have a vcds. 2. I doubt we used the words "useless"... If you provided the same log that's attached here, something else was likely going on with it, please fwd to me via email and I'll review.

[Loe]

Guys...

why can't I log with Vagcom ??

* Have the latest version of ross-tech, yes I turbo and yes I click group UDS.

1) what parameter do you use to log ? I currenctly use 10, could it be because I use too much, should I only use 8 ? if so, which one should I delete ?

Group 15 - Field 0 Vehicle speed (I would remove this field)
Group 25 - Field 0 Engine speed
Group 216 - Field 0 IGA_AD_1_KNK[0]
Group 222 - Field 0 Ignition angle; actual
Group 233 - Field 0 Lambda probes actual; bank1
Group 345 - Field 0 Air mass
Group 352 - Field 0 Intake manifold pressure
Group 556 - Field 0 Intake air temperature
Group 623 - Field 0 Charge air pressure specified value
Group 625 - Field 0 RFP_AV

2) Could it be that I use Windows 7 on an older core2duo processor with Excel 2007 ? In other word, I need to use a stronger computer ?

3) I also saw that rosstech have some parameter to speed up the data logging, but then it could create problem with connection between ECU, so not sure how it could be effective..

Without being able to log, theres no reason for me to go DP as epl tune require to show log..

Thanks for the help!

Here's a log I did for about 1 minutes just for a test. From what I can see this log is exactly like all the other log I provided EPL and they told me it was useless.. let see if you can tell me what's wrong with it ;

http://www.filedropper.com/log-01-ide000219

I would delete where I bolded. The current VCDS using turbo-mode will only allow up to 9 parameters, so I would remove vehicle speed.

[waxxonMTL]

Hi- 1. we don't require logs for dp files... Though its suggested if you have a vcds. 2. I doubt we used the words "useless"... If you provided the same log that's attached here, something else was likely going on with it, please fwd to me via email and I'll review.

Hello tony,

I know you don't require logs, but we all know the tune is conservative so to extract the most out of it, log are required :)

2. Chris didn't say it was ''useless'' ( aka being impolite), but my log didn't appears to be group and long story short, no one could read something out of it thus .. it was useless lol! No worries here.

I would delete where I bolded. The current VCDS using turbo-mode will only allow up to 9 parameters, so I would remove vehicle speed.

thank you, I will try that then ! :)

[Tony@EPL]

Hello tony,

I know you don't require logs, but we all know the tune is conservative so to extract the most out of it, log are required :)

2. Chris didn't say it was ''useless'' ( aka being impolite), but my log didn't appears to be group and long story short, no one could read something out of it thus .. it was useless lol! No worries here.



thank you, I will try that then ! :)

Honestly, from the logs of other dual pulley tunes Ive seen... pump gas for pump gas we are NOT conservative. Granted this was not a competitors production file but we were infact "more" aggressive both on ignition and fueling... If you are running a reasonable pulley ratio (think 179-183 crank pulley and standard sized upgraded sc pulley) with standard fuel (91,93, 100, 104), logs are unnecessary.

Chris emailed you this morning already... looks like what you sent had too many variables, and both turbo/group usd wasn't selected. Your data was less then 1 sample a second.

[ayz33]

Hey all!

Did some reading in here but i'm new to modding in the Audi world. I'm just trying to figure out what what points should i expect to have to upgrade other components(fuel injectors and other bottleneck type parts).

What recommendations do you all have? i'd hate to throw on a tune and pulleys but be unknowingly hurting myself without upgrading some other things as well.

Thanks!

[whiped]

Hey all!

Did some reading in here but i'm new to modding in the Audi world. I'm just trying to figure out what what points should i expect to have to upgrade other components(fuel injectors and other bottleneck type parts).

What recommendations do you all have? i'd hate to throw on a tune and pulleys but be unknowingly hurting myself without upgrading some other things as well.

Thanks!

Upgrading Cooling: Helps on anything over Stage I, required for Stage III
Upgraded HPFP: Needed if running full E85 Stage II or higher
Upgraded LPFP: Needed if running higher mixed E85 on Stage III
Upgraded Plugs: Climate dependent, most people are going 1 step colder once going Stage III
Upgraded Clutch(6MT): Generally the stock clutch won't hold Stage II or higher power.

I think that about covers it.

[AudBoost]

Upgrading Cooling: Helps on anything over Stage I, required for Stage III
Upgraded HPFP: Needed if running full E85 Stage II or higher
Upgraded LPFP: Needed if running higher mixed E85 on Stage III
Upgraded Plugs: Climate dependent, most people are going 1 step colder once going Stage III
Upgraded Clutch(6MT): Generally the stock clutch won't hold Stage II or higher power.

I think that about covers it.

To add whiped list some maintenance items to look into replacing:
- Water pump if it has not been replaced yet.
- OEM crank pulley. miles until failure vary but its a good idea to replace it as it is prone to failure.
- Spark plugs. OEM work just fine. Consult your tuner for their recommendation.

[waxxonMTL]

Honestly, from the logs of other dual pulley tunes Ive seen... pump gas for pump gas we are NOT conservative. Granted this was not a competitors production file but we were infact "more" aggressive both on ignition and fueling... If you are running a reasonable pulley ratio (think 179-183 crank pulley and standard sized upgraded sc pulley) with standard fuel (91,93, 100, 104), logs are unnecessary.

Chris emailed you this morning already... looks like what you sent had too many variables, and both turbo/group usd wasn't selected. Your data was less then 1 sample a second.

I'm not dump.. it was selected lol.. that what I don't understand.. I'm starting to think that maybe my hardware ( core2duo + 4gb of ram + win7) is not powerful enough..

I can't see anything else ; 1. I got the lastest VCDS updated. 2. Group UDS and Turbo is selected. 3. Legit Ross-tech cable. 4. Chris tell me that your customer always send log with 10 parameters ( while Loe recommend to use 9) I will try that very soon, but since so many already use 10, I doubt this would be the problems.. 5. I own a B8.5 2013, plenty other have the same car.

So I'm thinking the only different variable is the laptop I use which is a old 2010 Dell.. worked fine for DTC clearing, flashing etc. but maybe not powerful enough for logging ?

[Loe]

A local friend with an S4 showed me that trick and ran consistent high 11's on his APR2 93 pump (chrisucf99)



It's fully adapted now, so we will see if it's about to get faster! The only thing really holding me back is my ability to launch; hoping the logs I sent today will give me that ability back on a revised file. Right now, it's either full-LC, or laggy throttle stomp-n-go, no ability to use any up-swing for those lower-traction surfaces. My next opportunity is next week Thursday, Saturday at FIXXFEST, or Runday-Sunday (Sunday morning track is my best bet though, lows will be near 59F, with highs by 2pm at 75F, meaning D/A's should rise higher than 900ft...

thats if work doesn't take me out of state through the weekend...

Also forgot to add, this is back on my e85/93 37.7% mix. It's back and ready for action!

OMG it's supposed to be 47F Sunday morning, so it should be mid 50's by the time 11am rolls around for Runday Sunday...

had to post, very excited lol

[Lensch09]

OMG it's supposed to be 47F Sunday morning, so it should be mid 50's by the time 11am rolls around for Runday Sunday...

had to post, very excited lol

New plugs are going in for me tonight and I'm gonna do an E85/91 mix on the pump file tomorrow night. May throw in 2-3 gallons of 110 and run race map just to see if it will do it.

AMS cooler shows up sometime next week. Hoping to be one of the only manuals in the 11s the week of the 28th!

-DL

[k6750gsxr]

New plugs are going in for me tonight and I'm gonna do an E85/91 mix on the pump file tomorrow night. May throw in 2-3 gallons of 110 and run race map just to see if it will do it.

AMS cooler shows up sometime next week. Hoping to be one of the only manuals in the 11s the week of the 28th!

-DL

Waiting for clutch and i will see if i can be another 6mt in the 11s

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[infinkc]

New plugs are going in for me tonight and I'm gonna do an E85/91 mix on the pump file tomorrow night. May throw in 2-3 gallons of 110 and run race map just to see if it will do it.

AMS cooler shows up sometime next week. Hoping to be one of the only manuals in the 11s the week of the 28th!

-DL

Going to JHM night tomorrow at sac raceway?

[Lensch09]

Going to JHM night tomorrow at sac raceway?

Planning on it, but expectations are low. The car is still pulling timing like crazy due to the dual pulley fire breather-mod.

Looking for 11s the last Wednesday of the month.

-DL

[Loe]

Waiting for clutch and i will see if i can be another 6mt in the 11s

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we have to get together soon! seeing a S4/S5 3.0t 6MT car at our track is a rarity

[k6750gsxr]

I bet. I never see a 6mt except online. I went the first week i bought it and have planned on going ever since then but kept getting more stuff and putting it off due tp 1 hour 45 min drive. When i lived in riverview i went every other week with my other cars.

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[Loe]

Planning on it, but expectations are low. The car is still pulling timing like crazy due to the dual pulley fire breather-mod.

Looking for 11s the last Wednesday of the month.

-DL

Yeah, the 91 base fuel isn't exactly the best for performance, that's too bad that you can't get a 93 base fuel for the ethanol mix. I'm now back to my 37.7% mix on my 183mm, logs are near 104 octane levels but more consistent run after run with very little (up to -1* here and there cross a few cylinders).

[Q5OnTheMove]

Yeah, the 91 base fuel isn't exactly the best for performance, that's too bad that you can't get a 93 base fuel for the ethanol mix. I'm now back to my 37.7% mix on my 183mm, logs are near 104 octane levels but more consistent run after run with very little (up to -1* here and there cross a few cylinders).

I assume this 37.7% and 104 octane are on the race map?

Also, your running straight 93 octane on the pump file?

Just asking as i will be following in your footsteps and getting a 183mm crank pulley and then GIAC tune and your one of those leading the charge in support of the GIAC dual pulley tunes.

Thanks!


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[Loe]

Correct, they are on the same map. Also, it's technically not a "37.7% ethanol mix" (ethanol content was recently tested at 81%, I fill 3 5gallon jugs so I don't have to continually drive 10 miles to get ethanol lol), but it's 37.7% mix based on using standard values here - - - > http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

Regardless if my ethanol content changes (I've only seen it vary from 77-85% at the pump I use...), the car doesn't have any perceived changes in performance (as well as objective changes in logs) if I use the same "37.7%" mix based solely on using the standard 85%/10% value's in the calculator.

I rarely run straight 93 on the pump file, but I have for logging reasons. Interestingly enough, I did run [email protected] (may have been 118mph, I need to go through my pile) on a pump file with an E20 mix this past summer, but never posted the timeslip. Something that 93 pump users can aim to exceed now that we have colder weather.

[BlownOne]

OMG it's supposed to be 47F Sunday morning, so it should be mid 50's by the time 11am rolls around for Runday Sunday...

had to post, very excited lol

Damn that's finally going to be great track weather brotha! Good luck!

[abamfo]

Loe, is it possible to read your short term fuel trims to ascertain an approximate percentage of ethanol. I believe I am running an E20 blend and was wondering if there is a way to reverse engineer an approximation. Given your 37.7%, are your ST fuel trims quite high at idle when the specified lambda is 1?

Hopefully it's a record breaking weekend!

[Loe]

The best method would be a field to log actual AFR instead of lambda, however AFR itself changes based on EGT's, so it will never be accurate. My STFT's are -12% to -17% with my LTFT hover near 0. Prior to the supplemental pump upgrade, my STFT were in the positive value's.

[theswoleguy]

Did the E85 pump from the A4 end up working out really well?

[Lensch09]

Did the E85 pump from the A4 end up working out really well?

I picked up 3.5 mph trap in relatively similar weather/DA.

-DL

[s4matty]

I picked up 3.5 mph trap in relatively similar weather/DA.

-DL

That's pretty impressive

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[Loe]

Damn that's finally going to be great track weather brotha! Good luck!

Yeah, should be nice, my main concern when the air temp is that cold is summer tires and a lack of grip. I'm going to hit the track this evening too, D/A's will hover near 1,000-1,200ft. but I'm mainly going as I need to develop a rhythm with how to launch and catch the upswing with this 3rd revision that Evan@Crown Motorsport flashed to yesterday afternoon, before I really give it the go on Sunday. Practice makes perfect...

I feel this current B8.5 file is production ready imho (3rd revision, kudos for getting it to this point within 3 revisions though!!), but they may deem it otherwise based on logs. Subjectively (after many many feedback emails on drivability and logan@GIAC taking each on seriously), drivability is now similar to a stage II, but progressively "sprightlier" to pedal angle in a controllable manner without bucking, all part-throttle driveability concerns I had on prior revisions are gone (non-linear boost gain, non-linear gear-based boost response, part-throttle sputter, rough upshifts resulting from the boost). I'll let GIAC be the decider of when to release it, but my feedback was positive on my drive home that I called up with many praises.

[gsmoov3]

...

I feel this current B8.5 file is production ready imho (3rd revision, kudos for getting it to this point within 3 revisions though!!), but they may deem it otherwise based on logs. Subjectively (after many many feedback emails on drivability and logan@GIAC taking each on seriously), drivability is now similar to a stage II, but progressively "sprightlier" to pedal angle in a controllable manner without bucking, all part-throttle driveability concerns I had on prior revisions are gone (non-linear boost gain, non-linear gear-based boost response, part-throttle sputter, rough upshifts resulting from the boost). I'll let GIAC be the decider of when to release it, but my feedback was positive on my drive home that I called up with many praises.

You're such a pioneer for this platform, Experimenting and testing, and often becoming a "test dummy" helping to figure it out for the benefit of so many.......Appreciate your efforts and dedication to the pursuit of power!!



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[jran76]

Yeah, should be nice, my main concern when the air temp is that cold is summer tires and a lack of grip. I'm going to hit the track this evening too, D/A's will hover near 1,000-1,200ft. but I'm mainly going as I need to develop a rhythm with how to launch and catch the upswing with this 3rd revision that Evan@Crown Motorsport flashed to yesterday afternoon, before I really give it the go on Sunday. Practice makes perfect...

I feel this current B8.5 file is production ready imho (3rd revision, kudos for getting it to this point within 3 revisions though!!), but they may deem it otherwise based on logs. Subjectively (after many many feedback emails on drivability and logan@GIAC taking each on seriously), drivability is now similar to a stage II, but progressively "sprightlier" to pedal angle in a controllable manner without bucking, all part-throttle driveability concerns I had on prior revisions are gone (non-linear boost gain, non-linear gear-based boost response, part-throttle sputter, rough upshifts resulting from the boost). I'll let GIAC be the decider of when to release it, but my feedback was positive on my drive home that I called up with many praises.

Good stuff, and good luck.

[Lensch09]

Ran last night on a 30% ethanol mix. DA were around -500 with around 48 degree ambient. Traction was questionable, at best. Going sideways through first and HARD second gear scratch... Videos should be funny, at least.

As you can see, traps got slightly lower on all three passes.

At least I can drive it consistently now.

By third gear IATs get HIGH and timing starts getting pulled (I noticed 6+ degrees).

AMS Alpha cooler shows up next Tuesday and I'll also throw in new plugs (car has about ~20k on the clock). Not sure if it has 11s in it or not at this point (maybe not on this tune, waiting on GIAC...). Being a manual certainly has me at a disadvantage





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[colby7]

Dan you'll love the AMS cooler. I looked at my logs from last night, and I didn't have a single IAT reading even hit 60C.