New Cam Follower solution (different than H2Sport's solution)

[viziers]

Hope this was not posted yet. Initial looks look to be promising.. Price is a bit steep though!

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188963



vizi

[Audi_509]

Interesting. I would like to see more testing but it looks promising.

[viziers]

Interesting. I would like to see more testing but it looks promising.

Yes indeed it does look interesting.. I also need to see more mileage on it before I can start to think about buying it...



vizi

[Biged243]

That looks good. If I had the money I would try it.

[Obsidian]

Install - INA 2.0 TFSI to 2.0 TSI Fuel pump lifter conversion

Overview
As you may know, the FSI motors of all types use a solid cam follower to run the fuel pump. It has turned out to be a problematic wear item on this model of motor. In the next version of the motor TSI, the solid cam follower was replaced with a roller cam, getting rid of the wear issues associated with this part.

My car is a typical bolt-on modded K04 using an APR modified fuel pump. This kit should work fine with stock and modified pumps.

Difficulty
The INA FSI to TSI kit is not out as of this writing but should be out soon. This kit, unlike others uses only new parts and can be done by just about all home mechanics in 3 hours even if you are fairly new to the car. I would give it a difficulty of 3 out of 10 for folks that can wrench but are not familiar with the motor. I would give it 2 out of 10 for folks that have been under the hood of their car and know their way around already and are generally experienced in regular maint and repair.

Quality
I would give the quality of the kit a 10 out 10 based on quality of parts, factory like quality of work(machining), ease of install and it just works like you would expect it to. I have seen only one other kit on the market that is no longer available. Assuming you are having the work done this kit should end up being cheaper and perhaps better than the now discontinued kit out on the market. The other kit generally could not be done in 3 hours as parts had to be removed, sent back for modification then returned. With this kit you are down for 3 hours and unlike the other kit you can go backward because you are using all new parts and not modifying your existing ones.

Disclaimer
For the record, I paid for the kit, it was not a giveaway in search of positive publicity so I am writing this as a consumer and real customer. As of today I have 120 miles on the kit and the car is 100% normal, no new noises or new behavior. At 1000 miles of use I will post an update with pictures to show wear on roller and cam.

1000 mile follow-up
Currently (9/3/2014) at 150 miles. At 1000 miles I will provide pictures of the roller and the cam lobe.

Installation Video
The install went well and we used an iPhone to film the install to help those that may follow and make it easier for those that are newer to this type of work.
INA 2.0 TFSI to 2.0 TSI Fuel pump lifter conversion video



Kit Photos

Looks promising but whats all this about? I didnt see anything addressing these concerns.

Theres a reason H2 had you send in the cam. You cannot use a cam lobe designed for a flat tappet follower with a roller type lifter. A cam lobe designed for use with a flat face tappet (cam follower) has a slightly tapered lobe profile which is intended to "spin" the follower and promote even wear around the entire face. The TSI follower is keyed and therefore not designed to rotate in its bore.



The INA design will likely lead to premature wear of the cam lobe due to incorrect loading of the roller follower agains the face of the lobe.



Here's an article from the Automotive Engine Rebuilders Association on the topic. The information regarding lobe design starts under the heading labeled "Lobe and Lifter Wear"

http://www.aera.org/engine-professio...ain-stability/

Price is a bit steep though!

What do they cost?

[viziers]

Looks promising but whats all this about? I didnt see anything addressing these concerns.





What do they cost?

From what I saw it is right around $900 for the whole shebang...


vizi

[LINDW4LL]

From what I saw it is right around $900 for the whole shebang...


vizi

Ha!

[viziers]

Ha!

It's a very steep price! It cost more than tuning itself..


vizi

[LINDW4LL]

It's a very steep price! It cost more than tuning itself..


vizi

A new follower is what... $35? The cam follower issue is not that large to warrant such extreme spending. Even at $250 I don't think it would be worth it.

[Endmass]

From what I saw it is right around $900 for the whole shebang...


vizi

Yup, I'll just keep changing mine every 30k.

[ericpaulyoung]

Or just buy the TSI housing for $100, and a TSI pump for $225, and a TSI follower for $40 and bolt it to your car.
epy

[B7OrangeA4]

Or just buy the TSI housing for $100, and a TSI pump for $225, and a TSI follower for $40 and bolt it to your car.
epy

I don't know much about the TSI motor, how often does their follower need to be changed. Would that setup bolt right up to the fsi or need some slight modifications? And what about tuning?


2007 Burnt Orange Audi A4 | S-line | Titanium | JHM tuned | 034 HFC | Techtonic DP | Stasis exhaust | RS4 grille | AWE boost gauge | 034 TIP | GFB DV+ | APR snub mount | 034 street mounts

[ericpaulyoung]

I don't know much about the TSI motor, how often does their follower need to be changed. Would that setup bolt right up to the fsi or need some slight modifications? And what about tuning?

I really don't know if they can be interchanged. Probably not. But to answer your question, the TSI never has to be changed.

[4rings5stars]

Only good for hose who don't have the means to change it out every so often. It really is such an easy job

[viziers]

A new follower is what... $35? The cam follower issue is not that large to warrant such extreme spending. Even at $250 I don't think it would be worth it.

I agree and disagree with ya on that!

In one way if the person IS diligent and checks the follower at 5k interval and replace it at 10k regardless of condition like I have and (knock on wood) been very lucky and not have had an issue... Now there have been times when I have gotten that sinking feeling that it may have punctured through but have not... I know the cam follower warranty is good for 120 but most I think have passed that mark not all but quite a bit...

On the other en now if a person has a stock car and even worse for a heavily modified car if that follower punches through then you now have thousands of dollars worth of damage right off the bat a new HPFP can cost from $400 - $1100 and add a cam and may want to drop the oil pan in the even that a piece got into the motor or somewhere else...



vizi

[kegobeer]

If I ever have to remove my head/cams/major engine work, I will be sending my stuff to H2Sport and do the upgrade. I wouldn't consider it without some huge reason to dismantle the engine, though.

[vce1232000]

[QUOTE=viziers;10153759]

On the other en now if a person has a stock car and even worse for a heavily modified car if that follower punches through then you now have thousands of dollars worth of damage right off the bat a new HPFP can cost from $400 - $1100 and add a cam and may want to drop the oil pan in the even that a piece got into the motor or somewhere else...
This just happened to me 4 dayz before H2O. Needed a cam,follower,and apr hpfp . My fault for being stupid. I didn't change every 20k like I suppose to...

Good news is I bought a used motor to do a with IE rods and am considering one of these 2 solutions for the cam follower...

[aluthman]

Good news is I bought a used motor to do a with IE rods and am considering one of these 2 solutions for the cam follower...

I would do the H2Sport fix. It costs half as much, and has much more street miles under it's belt. It would be no big deal to install with the engine out of the car already for a build. I was very close to doing this to my car when I did my build. I wish now that I would have done it since I'm replacing followers every 10k miles.

[viziers]

If I ever have to remove my head/cams/major engine work, I will be sending my stuff to H2Sport and do the upgrade. I wouldn't consider it without some huge reason to dismantle the engine, though.

I thought that H2sport had gone out of business but their site is still up and the pump conversion is still available. The thing that got my attention with issam's is the fact you can revert back with little hassle.

http://www.h2salesandservice.com/Fue...6f-103-498.htm

vizi

[viziers]

I would do the H2Sport fix. It costs half as much, and has much more street miles under it's belt. It would be no big deal to install with the engine out of the car already for a build. I was very close to doing this to my car when I did my build. I wish now that I would have done it since I'm replacing followers every 10k miles.

Yup same here, I to also contemplated it for sometime as well but wanted to give HPFPupgrades a try/chance... From what he told me a couple weeks ago is that he is stil working on it and should be avail soon.. When? I have no idea. I still have yet to send my cam follower I got from him back for the refund (guess ive just been optimistic).....




vizi

[aluthman]

Yup same here, I to also contemplated it for sometime as well but wanted to give HPFPupgrades a try/chance... From what he told me a couple weeks ago is that he is stil working on it and should be avail soon.. When? I have no idea. I still have yet to send my cam follower I got from him back for the refund (guess ive just been optimistic).....




vizi

I had to replace my cam after it was damaged from their chrome follower. John refunded me for the cost of a new cam and for the cost of the follower, so no hard feelings. I still run one of their hpfps and it's been great. I also tried the EPY experimental follower and it didn't last very long either, luckily no damage to the cam lobe from that one.

[viziers]

I had to replace my cam after it was damaged from their chrome follower. John refunded me for the cost of a new cam and for the cost of the follower, so no hard feelings. I still run one of their hpfps and it's been great. I also tried the EPY experimental follower and it didn't last very long either, luckily no damage to the cam lobe from that one.

I to run his Stg2 HPFP and his 142bar PRV... Definitely a good guy...


Didn't Operator's CF punch through at like 2000 miles or something like that??



vizi

[Operator]

Didn't Operator's CF punch through at like 2000 miles or something like that??


vizi

Let's not mention that again!!!

[viziers]

Let's not mention that again!!!

My bad, sorry Dave didn't mean to bring up old wounds....


vizi

[seal66]

Run Johns Stage 2 pump and 155 prv here.

I would like to see more options. I am getting tired of replacing the CF. Such a poor design.

[viziers]

Run Johns Stage 2 pump and 155 prv here.

I would like to see more options. I am getting tired of replacing the CF. Such a poor design.

I agree completely, That's why I will be keeping an eye on this to see how it pans out...


vizi

[Jake@JHM]

Why not just upgrade to the new cam and be done with it? I have all of the maintenance documentation and my car never had the follower done until in owned it. At 99k miles the follower showed wear, but wasn't terrible.

[seal66]

Why not just upgrade to the new cam and be done with it? I have all of the maintenance documentation and my car never had the follower done until in owned it. At 99k miles the follower showed wear, but wasn't terrible.

The 08's have the new cam

[Andrew149]

Why not just upgrade to the new cam and be done with it? I have all of the maintenance documentation and my car never had the follower done until in owned it. At 99k miles the follower showed wear, but wasn't terrible.

Because you have a 08 like I do! Haha 08 for the win!

[aluthman]

Why not just upgrade to the new cam and be done with it? I have all of the maintenance documentation and my car never had the follower done until in owned it. At 99k miles the follower showed wear, but wasn't terrible.

The new cam didn't really fix anything. Once you put an upgraded hpfp on it, your CF lifespan is like 10-15k tops. Supposedly IE's new pump has fixed this by retaining the stock spring, but time will tell I guess. I don't even know of anyone running the IE pump yet.

[RAudiB7A4]

I just replace my follower every spring for piece of mind. It has been the sole deterrent from me getting a hpfp upgrade though as I didn't want to have to add $35 to every oil change I do to replace the follower. That's another reason that I'm excited about jhm's tune not requiring a hpfp upgrade.

@ $900 I could buy what... 25 cam followers? That's pretty much a lifetime supply even if I were to change it every 5k miles. I wouldn't call this a solution with a price like that...

[viziers]

The 08's have the new cam

I have a "B" cam already and I am a 05.5 somehow I got lucky?


vizi

[Andrew149]

The new cam didn't really fix anything. Once you put an upgraded hpfp on it, your CF lifespan is like 10-15k tops. Supposedly IE's new pump has fixed this by retaining the stock spring, but time will tell I guess. I don't even know of anyone running the IE pump yet.

How did the new cam not fix anything when we can go 100k without worries while you guys go 10k on a stock car 05-07

[viziers]

How did the new cam not fix anything when we can go 100k without worries while you guys go 10k on a stock car 05-07

Because no matter what the Cf is a piss poor design...lol I really has to do with the added pressure the modded HPFP has on the CF & lobe.... but it also still wears on a stock car and that's the reason why AOA/VWoA have extended the warranty to 120k...


vizi

[seal66]

I have a "B" cam already and I am a 05.5 somehow I got lucky?


vizi

Ya either got lucky or if you are not the original owner it's been replaced already

I wanna say it was a Chevy or jag motor that used a cam follower design that was stout as heck

[aluthman]

How did the new cam not fix anything when we can go 100k without worries while you guys go 10k on a stock car 05-07

I would be very worried about running a CF for 100k on a stock car, even with the updated cam. Mine loses the coating after ~10k miles and would likely be toast after 20k, so I replace mine roughly at every oil change. Like mentioned above though, I have an upgraded hpfp. With a stock hpfp, I would check the CF at 30k intervals. They have been known to fail on stock cars at like 60k miles ('08 models included).

[Mc Suly]

price is steep indeed.
i just check mine every oil change. so far 4-5 oil changes and still looks new (since i last replaced it)

[viziers]

Ya either got lucky or if you are not the original owner it's been replaced already

I wanna say it was a Chevy or jag motor that used a cam follower design that was stout as heck

I am the original owner...



vizi

[seal66]

I am the original owner...



vizi

Damn you got lucky then. But, I know my QGM b7 I had also had the new cam in it stock.

[martin0079]

The key on the roller follower concerns me