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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings CHRISTOPHÉ's Avatar
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    2004 All lowww'd 2.5TDI 6mt
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    Lowering my Allroad and varying damping rates using inline valves

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    Hi all I have 402'd my car again and due to the bags running at a reasonably low pressure the 'pdc' valve which controls the damping seems to be making the rear end a bit more bouncy than I would like. This uses the second air point on the rear airbag which is an outlet running to the damper. I'm just wondering if I can possibly add air to it and maybe then blank it at a higher pressure or find a way to set it higher than it currently is.

    Anyone else played with this?
    Last edited by CHRISTOPHÉ; 06-13-2014 at 06:07 AM.
    EURO FACELIFT AVANT REAR TUB - SWAP FOR YOUR NARROW US SPEC ONE, PM ME

    WANTED FRONT PLATE RECESS INFILL

    A8 4.2 QS sold
    2004 Allroad 2.5tdi Manual

  2. #2
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Feb 04 2012
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    93 Eurovan 5sp, 98 TDi GTi, 06 Jetta TDi BT
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    It would be easy to place a shut off valve inline with the damper. Then raise the suspension, close the valve and lower again to test results. I think the front that do not have a damper to play with bounce just as bad so you would still have a problem there.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings Racin2redline's Avatar
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    Aug 19 2012
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    1997 Yamaha razz 50 (sik)
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    Very interesting


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  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings CHRISTOPHÉ's Avatar
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    My Garage
    2004 All lowww'd 2.5TDI 6mt
    Location
    Plymouth,UK

    The front don't seem to be as bad as the rear sometimes the rear feels skittish over bumps even after having 4 wheel laser alignment done. I've looked at an inline non return valve but not the best thing I don't think as it may keep adding pressure each time which would be no good although I only run my suspension at level (-)1 I'm 402'd around 35mm I think.
    Pretty sure it's possible and would work just need to find suitable valve if nrv is no good.
    EURO FACELIFT AVANT REAR TUB - SWAP FOR YOUR NARROW US SPEC ONE, PM ME

    WANTED FRONT PLATE RECESS INFILL

    A8 4.2 QS sold
    2004 Allroad 2.5tdi Manual

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings CHRISTOPHÉ's Avatar
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    Apr 01 2014
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    My Garage
    2004 All lowww'd 2.5TDI 6mt
    Location
    Plymouth,UK

    Just ordered these will give this idea a try - fit connectors, raise to level 2 or 3, close valve and return to level 1 and see if damping rate has improved if not let a little out until I'm happy

    EURO FACELIFT AVANT REAR TUB - SWAP FOR YOUR NARROW US SPEC ONE, PM ME

    WANTED FRONT PLATE RECESS INFILL

    A8 4.2 QS sold
    2004 Allroad 2.5tdi Manual

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    NE

    Are you rear shocks ok though? On my car, the rears' life span was way less than what fronts survived. Must be due to the additional valving involved etc.

    Do a simple test, bounce the corner and see if it dampens ok when stationary...you might just find out that you have blown shocks and that's it.

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings CHRISTOPHÉ's Avatar
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    My Garage
    2004 All lowww'd 2.5TDI 6mt
    Location
    Plymouth,UK

    If they were blown I'm not sure the height difference would have any affect on them would it? They seem ok at height but the damping decreases the lower they go but it seems that was how they were designed? Will try the bounce test and see I'm at work at the moment.
    EURO FACELIFT AVANT REAR TUB - SWAP FOR YOUR NARROW US SPEC ONE, PM ME

    WANTED FRONT PLATE RECESS INFILL

    A8 4.2 QS sold
    2004 Allroad 2.5tdi Manual

  8. #8
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    93 Eurovan 5sp, 98 TDi GTi, 06 Jetta TDi BT
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    Newport News VA

    That is a perfect little valve. The other thing you could do is a regulator. That would let you set the resting (lowest level) pressure a set psi above the airbag system pressure. Let us know how the valve works!

  9. #9
    Established Member Two Rings CHRISTOPHÉ's Avatar
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    2004 All lowww'd 2.5TDI 6mt
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    Right valves have turned up, going to play about one evening over the weekend hopefully. They are a little bigger than expected but all ok.
    Think I'm going to level 3 then shut them off and lower car again and can play about from there, my car is 402'd about 35mm roughly basically I have 245/40/19 and can just get a finger in arch gap for reference.

    Now I've played with airlines and fittings I can probably put together a kit to upgrade piping to 2.5mm bore giving faster height adjustment and updated fittings to match the latest Cayenne and Toureg ones including postage worldwide for a reasonable amount.
    Chris
    EURO FACELIFT AVANT REAR TUB - SWAP FOR YOUR NARROW US SPEC ONE, PM ME

    WANTED FRONT PLATE RECESS INFILL

    A8 4.2 QS sold
    2004 Allroad 2.5tdi Manual

  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings CHRISTOPHÉ's Avatar
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    Apr 01 2014
    AZ Member #
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    My Garage
    2004 All lowww'd 2.5TDI 6mt
    Location
    Plymouth,UK

    Fitted these today and done quite a bit of driving around on various road surfaces I think its a drastic improvement in driveablity and handling.

    now I need to find a way to improve the fronts!

    Pictures of them fitted to follow, basically the adjuster knob is facing inwards so that you can put your hand through the rear lower arms and tighten up the screw then lock it off.
    EURO FACELIFT AVANT REAR TUB - SWAP FOR YOUR NARROW US SPEC ONE, PM ME

    WANTED FRONT PLATE RECESS INFILL

    A8 4.2 QS sold
    2004 Allroad 2.5tdi Manual

  11. #11
    Established Member Two Rings CHRISTOPHÉ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 01 2014
    AZ Member #
    168845
    My Garage
    2004 All lowww'd 2.5TDI 6mt
    Location
    Plymouth,UK





    Also changed out the old brake fluid today using this vacuum pump and pressing the brake pedal down with jack handle then open/lock on each corner until all nice and new


    Got ANOTHER personal plate to go on the car!
    Not as good as US ones but it's ok it says C PAINTER if you can work it out lol

    EURO FACELIFT AVANT REAR TUB - SWAP FOR YOUR NARROW US SPEC ONE, PM ME

    WANTED FRONT PLATE RECESS INFILL

    A8 4.2 QS sold
    2004 Allroad 2.5tdi Manual

  12. #12
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Nov 25 2012
    AZ Member #
    104675
    My Garage
    A5 Cabrio (8T) 2009 3.0 TDi Quattro EGR/DPF del
    Location
    Helsinki

    Christophé (and all others as well): One note about the load valve in the shock:

    The valve controls mostly the OUTWARD move, not much the inbound. Also, it is the most stiff if the valve is fully closed or fully open. In the middle there is no outward damping.

    So, when the valve gets clogged and dirty, it usually stays just partly open. And then the shock works badly - no damping outward. The valve is easy to check and clean. Also, some people (like me) have put a plastic 2mm washer inside it to keep it fully closed all times. THEN you have the biggest dampening inward and outward.

    So, in your case, make sure your extra valve is not keeping the load valve half open because then it is the worst.

    The Sachs shock itself is really good and becomes much "newer" and stiffer if you clean the valve piston or fully force close the valve.

    If anyone is interested in knowing how to close the valve permanently, I can write english instructions in here. It can be done shock in place - only removing the wheel. Then the shock is stiffer than standard A6 shocks.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Mar 09 2008
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    Torrington, CT

    Quote Originally Posted by ttenhunen View Post
    Christophé (and all others as well): One note about the load valve in the shock:

    The valve controls mostly the OUTWARD move, not much the inbound. Also, it is the most stiff if the valve is fully closed or fully open. In the middle there is no outward damping.

    So, when the valve gets clogged and dirty, it usually stays just partly open. And then the shock works badly - no damping outward. The valve is easy to check and clean. Also, some people (like me) have put a plastic 2mm washer inside it to keep it fully closed all times. THEN you have the biggest dampening inward and outward.

    So, in your case, make sure your extra valve is not keeping the load valve half open because then it is the worst.

    The Sachs shock itself is really good and becomes much "newer" and stiffer if you clean the valve piston or fully force close the valve.

    If anyone is interested in knowing how to close the valve permanently, I can write english instructions in here. It can be done shock in place - only removing the wheel. Then the shock is stiffer than standard A6 shocks.
    I'd be really interested in this please. Moving from a lowered b5 on coilovers to the allroad has been a huge adaptation.

    Thank you in advance.

  14. #14
    Active Member One Ring
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    A5 Cabrio (8T) 2009 3.0 TDi Quattro EGR/DPF del
    Location
    Helsinki

    Cleaning and tuning Allroad rear shock load valve

    The Allroad rear shock load valve controls mostly the OUTWARD dampening, not much the inbound. Also, the shock is the most stiff if the valve is fully closed or fully open. The original idea of the valve is to be fully closed or fully open during the move up and down. In the middle there is almost no outward damping.

    So, when the valve gets clogged and dirty, it usually stays just partly open. And then the shock works badly - no damping outward. Especially, if you mod 402, the valve may not move enough and makes the ride sloppy.

    The valve is easy to check and clean. See my guidance below.

    Some people have either forced the valve to be always fully closed (full outward dampening).

    The Sachs shock itself is really good and becomes much "newer" and stiffer if you clean the valve piston or fully force close the valve.

    Cleaning and tuning of the load valve goes approximately like this:

    1. Day or two before, put some CRC Penetrating oil similar to the ring clip and valve cover cap under it
    2. After a day or two, take of the wheel.
    3. Unscrew the air pipe fitting from the valve
    4. Take of the ring clip.
    5. Gently wiggle and pull off the valve cover cap with pliers. Clean and oil the o-ring seal in it. Check the small air hole in the center.
    6. With a strong magnet tool, pull the piston off. Remember the order of the washers under it. The two convex washers are against each other from the center and act as a spring. Clean and oil the washers and o-ring seal in the piston.
    7. Now you can see the actual valve shaft on the bottom of the housing. Test it with a finger – it should move in and pop back easily about 2 mm. Spray some oil there as well.
    8. Clean and oil the whole cylinder.
    9. Now, this is the tricky part. Here are the two options:
    a. If you want a full outward dampening, you can now force close the valve for good like this: Push the piston back WITHOUT the 4 washers under it. Test the movement of the piston with a finger. It should move about 1.5 mm and bounce back easily. Now, I put 4mm of polyester washers between the piston and the cover cap. Also an o-ring 5.5-5mm-thick does the job. It is easier since it is flexible. If the washer is too thick, you can’t install the final ring clip. If the washer is too thin, the valve stays open. So measure the movement, i.e. needed washer thickness carefully. The washer or o-ring should then press the piston fully down when installing the final cover cap and ring clip.The diameter of the piston is 22mm.
    b. If you don't want a full outward dampening, just put the piston back WITH its' washers.
    10. Push in the oiled valve cover cap in and install the ring clip.
    11. Now either install the air pipe and fitting back (especially if you didn’t do any tuning) or remove the air piping and close the air outlets in the air spring AND the inlet in the shock valve housing. I did that by filling the air fitting screws with SIKA silicone.

    So this was my way of closing the valve. I went through different other options, like a strong spring replacing the piston, one way check valve in the air pipe, or an adjustment screw bored in to the cover cap.

    The last option is propably the sturdiest and most flexible because you can test different settings with the screw. The screw would then press the piston. But this option also destroys the cover cap and prevents going back to the original air operation. I think I might try this next.

    Now, this guidance is just based on my study. If you have any doubts with it, just clean the piston and cylinder and have a second thought. I can’t take any responsibility of the results since the shock can really be worn out and this guidance doesn’t help or the construct of the shock is somehow different. Also, remember, you can't purchase any of the valve construct parts separately.
    Last edited by ttenhunen; 05-05-2015 at 01:47 AM. Reason: Clarifications, some details changed.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings 4rings2turbos's Avatar
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    I'm going to look at this tomorrow. I only kind of understand it. Hopefully once it's in front of me it will all come together. If anyone else has thoughts to contribute I'll be on the lookout.
    OEM+ work in progress allroad
    Unicorn Society member #8
    @fourings | Build

  16. #16
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Nov 25 2012
    AZ Member #
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    My Garage
    A5 Cabrio (8T) 2009 3.0 TDi Quattro EGR/DPF del
    Location
    Helsinki

    4rings2turbos, I noticed my posting is long. But simply put: the actual valve is a press-button deep in the valve housing and it is operated by a small piston. And the piston is operated by air pressure.

    The construction of actual valve in the shock is tricky because it lets shock oil pass the shock piston at two positions - fully open (a little) and in the middle (all). Fully closed there is no side route for the oil and the shock operates normally. That's why I like the closed position.
    Last edited by ttenhunen; 05-03-2015 at 09:23 AM. Reason: spelling stuff

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings 4rings2turbos's Avatar
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    Thanks for a little extra info, I'm putting this on my short list to do. Are you saying that exactly 2mm thick washer should be used? Is this optimal thickness? If so then I will obtain a couple washers before I begin. What approximate diameter?
    OEM+ work in progress allroad
    Unicorn Society member #8
    @fourings | Build

  18. #18
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Nov 25 2012
    AZ Member #
    104675
    My Garage
    A5 Cabrio (8T) 2009 3.0 TDi Quattro EGR/DPF del
    Location
    Helsinki

    I measured my tuning washer WITH the metallic washers under the piston and it was exactly 2mm, with a 22mm diameter. But then I also tried with an o-ring and it worked as well. It can be thicker - mine is 2.5mm thick and 23mm in diameter. O-ring option works well if the piston moves smoothly. It is the easier option because you can use some force with the cover cap and final ring clip.

    WITHOUT the metallic washers under the piston the tuning washer(s) need to be 5mm. O-ring needs to be 5.5-6mm. This is the best option. The piston moves much easier.

    I've fine-tuned my DIY posting accordingly. Check section 9. again.
    Last edited by ttenhunen; 05-05-2015 at 01:46 AM. Reason: More info

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