B5A4 daily driver budget build

[B5A4coastie]

EDITED 5/19/14: This turned into a solid build, I thought I wouldn't get caught in the pursuit of more power, but I did. In a quick note, you can get about 200whp with 2k from a stock engine and it'll be much more fun to drive, but be prepared to want more (which costs a lot more than 2K).

EDITED Again 4/17/15: Not even a year later and I purchased yet another turbo. I wish I researched more..... I upgraded to a GTX2867R, this WILL be the last one, I promise. Well until next year :P


Hey guys, I have a 99 AEB 1.8 QTM. I bought the car as my daily driver, hind sight says I should have bought a POS, because I spend way too much time looking at parts for a car that was supposed to save me money (MPG wise) in the long run. With that being said I, like almost everyone on here I am looking for a good money:HP ratio.

I first went to NGPracing in Aberdeen, MD to price out an engine build for under 2K that would give me dependable power with every day reliability. They recommended the Carbonio intake, APR TIP, Techtonics TP and exhaust, and the APR Stage 2 Tune. To me that sounded awesome and made sense. More air in, more air out and the management to get it done. Actual price with tax was 2,200.00 plus labor (chip); that was with me installing everything except the APR chip.

I took their information and did some searching on the forums. I was almost convinced immediately that the intake is WAY too overpriced (looking for money:hp ratio remember), and from what I understand the stock intake flows fairly well.

Next I was looking into tunes and while APR has good street credit, I'm leaning toward United Motorsport. Rumor has it, the owner of UM drives a B5A4.

As for the exhaust, I have two needs, it has to be quiet and it needs to flow better. I couldn't find a sound clip from an AEB with the Techtonics/Flowmaster combo they sell now. I did like the tone of the Borlas, but Quiet is key here, for drive ability and for the sleeper aspect. Again with the money:hp ratio for a full exhaust.


So here's what I came up with, with the help from RAI Motorsports in Dundulk, MD. Drop in high flow filter, I chose K&N; test pipe with stock exhaust, I got a good deal from europaparts.com for a 034 TP and the United Motorsport Stage 2 tune, this only requires a plug and tune, rather than APRs soldered chip.

Now with the UM Stage 2 tune, they require the 70mm MAF housing off a MK3 VR6 and 440cc injectors. The housing I scored from a junk yard for $25, but it wont line up with the stock A4 TIP, Evolution Racewerks has a TIP designed to go with a 3" MAF housing for only $150 and is aluminum, not silicone. The tune itself costs $500. As for 440 injectors, it seems the Green Giants are the go to part, looks like about $225 new for a set of four. The TP with the extended bung was $212 and the K&N filter was $46. The TP to a stock exhaust would be a restriction, so I'm looking into a custom down pipe/flex pipe to be made. I'm guessing the custom piping will be $300, parts and labor, I need them to add a bung in the TP for a wide band O2 sensor also.

So far I'm looking at $1450.00.


That extra $500 can go towards the 52mm VEI dual display digital Podi gauges I've been eyeing up. I was thinking an oil pressure/ boost gauge since the Innovate Motorsports 3833 turbo timer that I'm looking at has an A/F setting. I wish I could replace the voltage gauge in the cluster with an oil pressure one. If that was possible I would do a boost/EGT gauge and have all the information I could need.


I would love to deck out the car with suspension and wheels, but as the thread states, I'm on a budget. 5K for the setup I want doesn't look like it's in the cards. Let me know what you guys think. I was going to buy a Vag Com and get HP/TQ readings as I parted the car together, but the $250 could get be closer to want I want sooner. I'm still on the fence and would like to have that intel.

[OverSpun]

I'm curious after reading your thread- did you forget mentioning a needed turbo upgrade since you've mentioned 440cc injectors unless you are planning on using your stock (k03) turbo? 440cc Injectors are a bit overkill for a stock turbo. I ran 386cc injectors on a Stage GIAC 1+ B6 A4 years back.

Example:

I also have a little B5 A4 project w/ the following engine mods-

FrankenTurbo F21
Bosch 440cc injectors (Green Giants)
Race-Tec FMIC
Forge 007PA
K&N drop in filter (just wrap it in newspaper to suck out the oil)
- I'm using the factory airbox; custom modded for a 3" MAF and it can definitely handle the power.
- 034 breather kit
- Still running the stock exhaust for now.

I'm running GIAC tuning.


I'll give you my thoughts since I think you're spending too much on parts that aren't necessary.

I've had 2 B5 A4s (including my current one) and a B6 A4 and all 3 were heavily modded in their own aspects.

1. You definitely need a Boost/Vac Gauge but I honestly don't think you need an EGT and A/F gauges and also a turbo timer. I have never cared for or needed a boost timer on any turbo car that I've had in the past 10 years including the A4s, a 335i and a Porsche and the boost timers aren't necessary IMHO. You always warm up the car and oppositely... cool down before you shut off the car.

2. VCDS (VAG-COM) is VERY important. I carry it with a 11" netbook for it. BTW, it does NOT give you HP/TQ readings. You need to dyno the car for those. VAG-COM is a scantool such as if you get a MIL.

3. Research a lot more before you start.

[B5A4coastie]

According to United Motorsports, thats the injector size they recommend with a k03/k04 turbo. I agree that it sounds high and it could be worth a phone call to ensure its needed.

As per the vagcom and hp/tq readings, there is a page on their website explaining how to convert some of your logs to create a hp/tq curve.

The gauges are strictly for knowledge of what my car is doing, and to help diagnose issues, but if I had the vagcom I guess that would show whatever I would need to diagnose any issues.

I'll stick with the turbo timer only because I dont let the car idle when I get home. (I live right off the highway with a 40 minute commute)

Thank you for your opinion, and hope others may chime in as well.

[B5A4coastie]

The link is on this page http://ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/index.html

[OverSpun]

According to United Motorsports, thats the injector size they recommend with a k03/k04 turbo. I agree that it sounds high and it could be worth a phone call to ensure its needed.

As per the vagcom and hp/tq readings, there is a page on their website explaining how to convert some of your logs to create a hp/tq curve.

The gauges are strictly for knowledge of what my car is doing, and to help diagnose issues, but if I had the vagcom I guess that would show whatever I would need to diagnose any issues.

I'll stick with the turbo timer only because I dont let the car idle when I get home. (I live right off the highway with a 40 minute commute)

Thank you for your opinion, and hope others may chime in as well.

Yea, you may as well give them a call but I haven't ever heard of them or someone running 440cc injectors on a k03.

May as well look into this- http://giacusa.com/products/software.../_S4_/_RS4_%AE

Anyway- you don't have to let the car idle when you get home unless you drive WOT until you park. It's your prerogative how many gauges and such that you'd like to buy but it may contradict your budget. What exactly is your budget w/ $5k? Including the car itself and all the mods?

[B5A4coastie]

What exactly is your budget w/ $5k? Including the car itself and all the mods?

I just want a fun to step on throttle (engine work) for under 2K. I could care less about 1/4 mile times, and you can't build a time attack car with my bank account, something fun to drive and looks/sounds stock.

Also thanks for the link, I've heard of Giac, just never searched for them.

[OverSpun]

I just want a fun to step on throttle (engine work) for under 2K. I could care less about 1/4 mile times, and you can't build a time attack car with my bank account, something fun to drive and looks/sounds stock.

Also thanks for the link, I've heard of Giac, just never searched for them.

I highly suggest that you look for used performance parts (depending if they are good parts and their shape) and you will save a LOT money with your budget. You can start low on very useful mods that's aren't very expensive.

One option could be-

What does your mileage look like on the car and is it up to date on service, especially the timing belt job (if you don't know... have it done, ASAP). You may have a lot work before you should start modding the car and sometimes you can upgrade some worn out parts during it. I had to replace a LOT worn out parts on my car since I've only had it for 6 months. I had to replace every check valve under the hood (5 in my case), Jet suction pump, PCV / Breather kit from 034 (since the car had sludge issues before I bought it) and a lot more but I can't recall at the moment.

- Start off with a Boost/Vac Gauge since it will help you a lot while you mod the car so you'll learn the car while it's 100% stock before mods. It was the first mod that I did on my avant since I needed to diagnose a number of issues with the car. I'll show you which gauge that I bought- (http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugede...id=3715&sid=67). It has red LED light and it perfectly matches the factory red lighting. I made my own gauge pod for the center vent and that should tell you enough and it's a lot cheaper than other options. You can get vacuum line and a T-tap at pep boys or any auto store to install any boost gauge pretty inexpensively.


1. GIAC flash (AWE Tuning is in PA which isn't exactly down the street from you but it's just a suggestion)
+/- K04 pricing has been slowly raising in the past years but I haven't looked recently but I decided on the Frankenturbo since it makes more power and they are in the same price range. (Of course, you may be very happy with a GIAC flash on your stock k03 and it's a day and night difference). To mention this- GIAC hasn't soldered chips in many years since I personally had one ~14 years back but they have been flashing VIA OBDII for years. GIAC's Headquarters are local and I've been there a number of times. I've used GIAC on all my last cars.

2. The K&N drop in filter is cheap enough and it'll help.

3. You can run your stock diverter valve with a flash but the diaphragm will eventually tear and it would sound like a dying duck. Anyway- The cheap upgrade is buying a 710N diverter valve (From the TT225) and they are more durable than your stock diverter valve. My stock diverter blew the first week after I flashed the car. I have been upgrading the DV at the same time with flashes since then.

4. The factory side mounted intercooler isn't very efficient on a completely stock A4; especially on hot days. I personally find FMICs more helpful with a lower IAT than exhausts in this order and exhausts obviously also help. Since you mentioned some concerns with having an exhaust that is too loud... Perhaps you should consider the FMIC before the exhaust. However, I wouldn't recommend a test pipe with full exhaust and it could drone. The test pipe won't pass emissions (depending on your state's emission laws). I had a borla/AWE cat-back exhaust system on my first A4 ~10 years back and it didn't drone and it sounded good and I kept with my factory cat (mainly since I was under warranty).

5. Speaking of suspension... You should consider a rear sway bar and you'll definitely be able to tell the difference. I had a Neuspeed 19" bar on my first A4 and theyre adjustable and I eventually bought coilovers.

6. Look at the classifieds and craigslist for used wheels and that will be inexpensive.

[B5A4coastie]

Thanks OverSpun, that's a lot of solid information.

[OverSpun]

Thanks OverSpun, that's a lot of solid information.

No problem!

Honestly, depending on the mileage if your timing belt was replaced recently because it can snap and motor damage won't help while you mod the car. My car's timing belt snapped on the previous owner and he never had it done and he spent ~2-3k. If you bought the car without any service records and I would have the timing belt done anyway to be safe.

[B5A4coastie]

I bought it at 82K, I did the timing belt, water pump, thermostat and associated belts and tensoner. Next big maintenance on my list is new fuilds threw out. The odometer is sitting at 92500 now.

[OverSpun]

I bought it at 82K, I did the timing belt, water pump, thermostat and associated belts and tensoner. Next big maintenance on my list is new fuilds threw out. The odometer is sitting at 92500 now.

Good! My A4's t-belt snapped @ 83k on the previous owner. Audi recommends having the t-belt replaced every 40k after they were sued since they recommended it @ 100k , I think. You're good @ 92k. Definitely check all your check valves and all that under the hood since I had a lot dried out / cracked parts and I replaced them. I'm @ 86k and I bought the car w/ 85k. I just don't drive it very often.

[B5A4coastie]

← Drives 80 miles a day

[B5A4coastie]

Ordered my tune and injectors today. My K04-15 is in route from another member.... This guy is getting excited about getting the build together. I also received my oil pressure and boost gauge w/pod mount from Podi.

[B5A4coastie]

Well I installed the boost gauge today... With the engine at idle I sit at -20 and at WOT I can only get to 5 psi. From what I have read, this is a common thing when the car is in "limp mode", I guess I can't put off buying a vagcom much longer.

Well I did some thinking and I'm in doubt about the "limp mode", the car pulls just fine. So I just switched the line I was using for my boost reading. I used the FPR line at first because it looked cleaner, but now I have it on the line to the recirculation valve(dv). At idle the gauge reads -14, but WOT is only 5 still.

[Seerlah]

WG or recirculation valve?

[B5A4coastie]

Recirculation valve, my bad, I edited the post for future reference.

[B5A4coastie]

On a good note, my tuned ecu and injectors were waiting for me after work!

[B5A4coastie]

My K04-15 arrived today, just waiting on some gaskets then everything will get installed most likely next weekend.

[B5A4coastie]

Wow these cars eat money, ok well it's more like I really enjoy driving this car. I just ordered all new fluids and magnetic drain/fill plugs for the differentials and transmission, new fuel filter, SS brake lines and a R1 dv from ECS. Also I purchased the Apikol snub mount, Stern engine mounts and Ross-techs vagcom all in preparation for my 100k service and turbo/tune swap.

[B5A4coastie]

I got good and bad news this morning. I haven't heard from Evolution Racewerks about shipping my order, so i gave them a call, parts are just now coming in, but I ordered the black anodized finish so that still needs to be applied, but should ship out by Wednesday. I wasn't paying close attention to my huge order request from ECS and the shipment date was set for March 10th, all because a magnetic drain valve for my trans; a quick email to Jason straightened that out and I'll be able to get some maintenance done before the TIP gets here. With all this time waiting on parts, I was thinking I should order a new Clutch and mounts, that was I could pull everything apart once. I'm leaning on FX300 and street density mounts (DD).

[B5A4coastie]

Today was like Christmas I had 4 packages waiting for me after work. I'll upload pictures this weekend, but I got a ton of parts in. Also finished my ordering frenzy tonight, the last few items were a ECS RSA4 stage two clutch kit, Treadstones TR18T intercooler/piping and H&R front/rear sway bar kit. I purged a ton of money from my bank account, but my build will be "finished".

[B5A4coastie]

As promised, some pictures. More to follow as more parts show up/get installed.

PARTS!!!!


K04-15, tiny lil guy.


United Motorsports stage 3 tuned ecu and Siemens 630cc injectors


Out with the old, in with the new, APR R1 DV


LED plate lights



Welcome to a state of solidness

[Seerlah]

630cc for a k04? That's a lot of injector.

[B5A4coastie]

Agreed, just rolling with the tuners recommendations.

[B5A4coastie]

Changed the transmission and differentials fluids today, the rear fill and drain plug were hard as hell to get out, but the front were a lot easier. I replaced the fill and drain plugs with ECS's magnetic fill/drain plugs.

Rear Diff


Real pain in the ass to fill. Rear took just under 2 liters of oil.



On to the front. The "center" differential and manual transmission share oil and took 3 liters of oil.


The drain plug was a 12 point anti-tamper plug, but my vise grips took care of it.


The front was easier to fill, I just rolled the liter of oil on top of the axle and let it eat.


End product.

[BaseDrifter]

Good job. A couple tips to make filling the fluids easier. For $3 you can buy a screw top pump that will allow you to pump fluid into the rear diff. For the tranny, I use a 4' piece of plastic tubing to fill it by gravity from the side of the car.

[B5A4coastie]

For $3 you can buy a screw top pump that will allow you to pump fluid into the rear diff. For the tranny, I use a 4' piece of plastic tubing to fill it by gravity from the side of the car.

Thanks bud, that's good intel.

[B5A4coastie]

I tried to tackle the fuel filter change, even after reading a bunch of horror stories from other threads. Well my story is the same as the others. It only took 20 minutes to get the old filter out, and slap a new one on, but there were only three crush washers on the original filter.



I found a copper washer that didn't quite fit, so I tried to manufacturer my own.


No dice though, I was able to blow through the filter still, so i just slapped it back in. I'll get some washers from a dealership and try it again later.

[B5A4coastie]

Well I was full of pep after work, made it to the dealer and picked up a new set of washers; only a little over a dollar per washer, not bad. I get home and don't even unpack the car, up on jacks it goes. I pull the tank down and start to loosen the fuel supply line, my wrench slips and scrapes the rubber back on the line (insert profanities here).


Luckily Advanced auto parts had a fuel line repair kit for 16 bucks. I just redid the last 16" of fuel line and slapped it up, no more leaks!

Well Seafoam was on sale so I picked up a pint of that and ran it through my intake manifold, took her out for a spin and all is well, except for a CEL. It's was a misfire on the #1 cylinder. I choked it once while Seafoaming, so I got the Vagcom and cleared the code. Afterword I was playing around and checked my readiness status, this is what I found.



Both O2 sensors show voltage but the B1S1 goes back and forth from Lean to Rich, it never steadies. Any ideas with what's going on? This is only the second time I've used the Vagcom, but it doesn't seem right to me.

[SN95Audi87]

Neat thread.

[MetalMan]

Well Seafoam was on sale so I picked up a pint of that and ran it through my intake manifold, took her out for a spin and all is well, except for a CEL. It's was a misfire on the #1 cylinder. I choked it once while Seafoaming, so I got the Vagcom and cleared the code.

Totally normal to get misfires running Seafoam through, even if you don't choke out the engine. I'm surprised it only happened on one cylinder!

Afterword I was playing around and checked my readiness status, this is what I found.



Both O2 sensors show voltage but the B1S1 goes back and forth from Lean to Rich, it never steadies. Any ideas with what's going on? This is only the second time I've used the Vagcom, but it doesn't seem right to me.

Couple things here... Readiness can take a few running cycles or up to 50 miles to set for some of the parameters. I wouldn't worry about it until 3 cold start cycles and/or 50 miles have gone by.

On an AEB there is a narrowband primary oxygen sensor. These are very sensitive to stoichiometric air/fuel ratio. NB sensors can only measure something iin the range of about 14.1-15.0 A/F ratios. Your ECU will purposely cause the A/F ratio to go up-and-down and switch between rich and lean. This switch should happen once every 2-4 seconds or so at idle. Basically the ECU does this so it can make sure it's running in the stoichiometric range.

630cc for a k04? That's a lot of injector.

Actually... the United Motorsport Stage 3 630cc tune is even said to work with a K03. Jeff Atwood (guy who runs UM) runs the 630cc AEB tune on his stock-engine B5 from what I understand. Nothing wrong with having nearly twice the fuel-flow capacity as stock :) The tune runs very nicely and there's obviously upgrade potential (up to an Elim-ish).

[Ducktool]

Props on taking care of all the maintenance on the car. It's easy to over-look when you start modding. Looking forward to the budget build!

Sent from my HTC6500LVW

[Tanzimur]

Nice DD build i wish i would have made a thread like this when i went through the madness lol as for the 440cc or 386cc injectors i would have to get my current stage 1 tweaked for those, i couldn't just install em and hope for best could I?

[B5A4coastie]

Your ECU will purposely cause the A/F ratio to go up-and-down and switch between rich and lean. This switch should happen once every 2-4 seconds or so at idle.

Nailed it MetalMan, that's exactly what it was doing, good to hear that's normal.

Actually... the United Motorsport Stage 3 630cc tune is even said to work with a K03. Jeff Atwood (guy who runs UM) runs the 630cc AEB tune on his stock-engine B5 from what I understand. Nothing wrong with having nearly twice the fuel-flow capacity as stock :) The tune runs very nicely and there's obviously upgrade potential (up to an Elim-ish).

That's the intel I got from Jeff as well, I can't wait until I get it all installed! As of now I didn't want anything too crazy and I know for sure I didn't want to have to take the block apart for this build, but with the option to go bigger in the future is a huge plus.


Ducktool, SN95Audi87, and Tanzimur: Thank you for the props, I'm glad others enjoy my story. I took the advice from a lot of people on here and knocked out the maintenance first. I'm an engineer by trade so I know how important it is to follow maintenance schedules.

[B5A4coastie]

Well I finally got my test pipe and turbo inlet pipe from Evolution Racewerks, the parts look solid and the directions and installation kits are very detailed. Only one small problem, I asked for a 3"MAF TIP, but I received a 2.75 coupler. My guess is it's just a step down silicone coupler, hopefully they can sent it fast, I'd like to put this all together this weekend. ER is very hard to get a hold of though, I'm not sure if I'm the only one having that problem, but I can never get anyone to pick up the phone, I always have to leave a message.

[Ducktool]

Gotta love getting parts! Hope you get that 3" maf tip fast too. What's next on the list after all this is put on?

Sent from my HTC6500LVW

[B5A4coastie]

Just waiting on my clutch to pull the engine out and swap everything, mounts, oil flush, ect.... ln that order is also more brake fluid, so I will put in my stainless steel lines and flush the brake system. That should do it, like I said I was hoping to get it for this weekend, otherwise it'll have to wait for a week or so as I'll be out of town.

[Ducktool]

Nice can't wait to see it all come together.

And waiting to put all new parts on a car is the worst

Sent from my HTC6500LVW

[B5A4coastie]

Yeah tell me about it. Oh and I forgot about my FMIC, still waiting on that too.

[Tanzimur]

So i have a stage 1 ecu tune 18 psi cone filter test pipe 2.5in exhaust all the way back and such if i swap in 380cc injectors or the green tops would i need a re-tune? im thinking yes but just wnna make sure