ECU upgrade: is 91 octane safe in Race mode (100 octane)?

[dpebenito]

considering upgrading ECU on my new 2014 S6. technician tells me that I'll have 3 different maps to select from (regular, sport or race). question is that with sport, it's likely going to used with 100 octane fuel. is it harmful if I leave it in sport mode but use 91 octane? I've heard different theories behind this but the technician is telling me that it's safe to use 91 octane with the race map.

any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

[SinCityA6]

What company is doing the ECU upgrade? When hearing of switchable programs, it has always been referred to using the octane rating of the fuel; 91, 93, and race gas (100 octane). I have never heard of programs being referred to as regular, sport and race.

I would be hesitant to run a "race" program with anything other than 100 octane race gas.

[dpebenito]

I'm considering going with ECU Tuning Group or ETG (http://ecutuninggroup.com/). the upgrade is a module that can, as I'm told, be removed by myself easily in the event I need to take my S6 to the dealer for service to be covered under warranty.

[Guitarmageddon]

Haha....I wouldnt trust that company, something seems off...

Check out their price for a bugatti veyron tune

http://ecutuninggroup.com/price-list

[SinCityA6]

Run, don't walk away! These guys are a JOKE! Since when does changing a supercharger pulley throw off timing??? I don't know ANY company that connects their supercharger to the timing mechanism. Idiots!

"We supply pulley upgrades for supercharged cars i.e. Jaguar, Range Rover, Mercedes AMG Kompressors, etc. When changing a pulley on a supercharged vehicle to raise the boost, the ECU has to be reprogrammed because the stock ECU file was created for a stock pulley (When replacing a pulley by itself the timing will be thrown off)"

[spoiledkid]

I just had their tune installed this Saturday and I'll post up vids very soon. I can vouch for this company because after over 200 miles in 5 days with the settings in Race mode the car has run flawlessly. As for performance, all wheel drive burnouts with launch control!
Very impressed to say the least and I can't say that I was confident in this tune at first but now I'm pretty satisfied. Ill give a more in depth review after some testing w/ dyno-results and drag times. As for now the car is so fast!

Simon

[gatorguy]

Haha....I wouldnt trust that company, something seems off...

Check out their price for a bugatti veyron tune

http://ecutuninggroup.com/price-list

Its not the price that I find funny, but the mere fact that they 'tune' Bugatti Veyrons.

[ecpChris]

Interesting. If you look at their site or facebook page, it looks like they tune a lot of high end cars. Unfortunately, I can't find much feedback, results, dynos, or drag strip times from anyone who runs their tunes.

[CreoSTi]

Unfortunately, I can't find much feedback, results, dynos, or drag strip times from anyone who runs their tunes.

From the limited reviews/information I found, most feedback from owners was an improved feel in performance. I wasn't able to find a whole lot of data/dyno runs to back up their claims either. There were, however, some negative threads on MBWorld.org...

Personally, I will wait it out for the more established companies like APR or GIAC to release their tune for my 2014... After years of having cars with tuned ECUs, I prefer a re-flashed ECU over a piggyback module and I prefer to go with a company that provides data/information on the actual gains.

[dpebenito]

that's great...at least one actual testimony. Let me know how it goes. I'd love to hear and see test results.

[dpebenito]

Thanks everyone for the posts. What I'm told is that I can simply remove the module prior to going to the dealership for any maintenance work which to me is a huge benefit. I did look at APR but unfortunately, because it's a flash upgrade, they've told me that the dealer will be able to detect the work when bringing it in for maintenance. This is one of the reasons why I'm looking at ETG because i already bit the bullet and bought the extended maintenance package and would hate for it to go to waste.

[CreoSTi]

If you do get it, do a dyno before and after for the rest of us.

[dpebenito]

will do.

If you do get it, do a dyno before and after for the rest of us.

[dab]

with the apr chip I have it has multiple settings as well. I run the 100 octane setting with ace iv fuel additive, 2.5 ounces per tank. Huge difference from the 91, 93 settings and I run it all the time.

[dpebenito]

with the apr chip I have it has multiple settings as well. I run the 100 octane setting with ace iv fuel additive, 2.5 ounces per tank. Huge difference from the 91, 93 settings and I run it all the time.

Thanks dab. how many miles have you put on it since the APR upgrade?

[dab]

Thanks dab. how many miles have you put on it since the APR upgrade?

Purchased car with 17k miles, first mod was apr chip. Almost 80k miles today.

[dpebenito]

just got it ETG module installed. drove for about 55+ miles...boy is it fast. Much quicker pull especially in higher speeds. I'm told that in about 90 miles, it should fully be set. Because it's a module I can remove, I'll do a dyno in about a week or so with and without the module to post the results. So far, I'm happy with the result but I'll let the numbers speak for themselves in a couple of weeks. The service was great at ETG (ECU Tuning Group) and they responded quickly and promptly to every inquiry by phone, email and text that I posed. I'm sharing this because when I did some search on ETG I really didn't get any results but having used them, I'd give them a recommendation. Good guys. I worked with Jags (owner based in SoCal) and Goshan (based in the Fremont location). They've both been very professional and upfront about the process and didn't bash any other competitors when I asked about them...which is always a good sign for me. I also asked around and they are being used by a number of other Audi dealers, performance shops (even APR dealers), etc. so I felt a bit better knowing they are servicing a lot of people who aren't just end-user customers but also businesses.

[ecpChris]

Cool. Any plans on taking it to the track? I'm curious what it would do
Also, any pics of your car with the Vossens?

[dpebenito]

Cool. Any plans on taking it to the track? I'm curious what it would do
Also, any pics of your car with the Vossens?

once I get it dyno'd I'll start to bring it out to the track. I've actually never been so I'm looking forward to it. with regard to the Vossen's, I kinda lied a little ...I'm actually getting them installed in about a week. They're on order and are on their way to the west coast from FL...I hope to have them installed soon. Once I do, I'll send out pics.

[dpebenito]

In the meantime...here's what the rims look like on a 5.



...can't wait!

[gatorguy]

I am very interested in seeing actual dyno results for this. On their website they have a couple for M5's and one Audi 2.0 but none for the S6. On their FAQ, there are a couple of things which raise questions.

[034Motorsport]

once I get it dyno'd I'll start to bring it out to the track. I've actually never been so I'm looking forward to it. with regard to the Vossen's, I kinda lied a little ...I'm actually getting them installed in about a week. They're on order and are on their way to the west coast from FL...I hope to have them installed soon. Once I do, I'll send out pics.

Feel free to swing by our Dyno Day & Open House this Saturday! We'd probably be able to get you on the dyno.

[CreoSTi]

I am very interested in seeing actual dyno results for this. On their website they have a couple for M5's and one Audi 2.0 but none for the S6. On their FAQ, there are a couple of things which raise questions.

+1

My problem with "modules" is that they usually don't provide the best gains and/or reliability when compared to an full ECU reflash. The modules basically interrupt signals and trick what the ECU sees. It'll be interesting to see what the dyno results show (with both a stock baseline vs. tuned).

From my research, here are the threads I found that were Audi-related;

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-Tune-Question

http://www.r8talk.com/forums/5-gener...check-out.html

[dpebenito]

Feel free to swing by our Dyno Day & Open House this Saturday! We'd probably be able to get you on the dyno.

Thanks, I saw that on your website. I'm out of town this weekend otherwise I would love to. I'll work out something with you guys for a dyno sometime next week.

[dpebenito]

+1

My problem with "modules" is that they usually don't provide the best gains and/or reliability when compared to an full ECU reflash. The modules basically interrupt signals and trick what the ECU sees. It'll be interesting to see what the dyno results show (with both a stock baseline vs. tuned).

From my research, here are the threads I found that were Audi-related;

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-Tune-Question

http://www.r8talk.com/forums/5-gener...check-out.html

Yikes on the first link! I did see the 2nd link but I took that with a grain of salt as my experience with the guys there have been all professional. They've answered all of the questions I've asked and have been extremely responsive with no pressure. They've not bad mouthed other shops and have been hoest about the fact that they've gotten a bad rap on some forums but simply asked that I come to the shop to speak with them in person. I've also met with a couple of other shops that have used them. That said, the reason I went with the module route is because I have the option of removing it when going to the dealer for maintenance which would avoid me voiding out my warranty.

In the end, I think what will prove whether this was a good or bad decision is after the dyno results. I'm just as eager as everyone else so once I have it, I promise to post it so we can all benefit from my experience. If it turns out it's not the gains as advertised (+110-120HP), I will be going to an APR dealer to proceed with that route...but again, the hesitation is voiding out my warranty with the ECU Flash. In addition, I've heard from a couple of APR dealers that APR hasn't yet released a version that will work on my 2014 S6...so I may have to wait anyway. Well first things first which is the dyno.

Thanks all for the posts.

[CreoSTi]

In the end, I think what will prove whether this was a good or bad decision is after the dyno.

Agreed and can't wait to see the results! It'll be interesting to see the air/fuel ratio too, to see how safe the tune is.

I believe APR is still waiting to crack the higher encryption level on the version 4 and up ECUs. Manufacturers are making it tougher and tougher for us to void powertrain warranties...

[gatorguy]

Yikes on the first link! I did see the 2nd link but I took that with a grain of salt as my experience with the guys there have been all professional. They've answered all of the questions I've asked and have been extremely responsive with no pressure. They've not bad mouthed other shops and have been hoest about the fact that they've gotten a bad rap on some forums but simply asked that I come to the shop to speak with them in person. I've also met with a couple of other shops that have used them. That said, the reason I went with the module route is because I have the option of removing it when going to the dealer for maintenance which would avoid me voiding out my warranty.

In the end, I think what will prove whether this was a good or bad decision is after the dyno results. I'm just as eager as everyone else so once I have it, I promise to post it so we can all benefit from my experience. If it turns out it's not the gains as advertised (+110-120HP), I will be going to an APR dealer to proceed with that route...but again, the hesitation is voiding out my warranty with the ECU Flash. In addition, I've heard from a couple of APR dealers that APR hasn't yet released a version that will work on my 2014 S6...so I may have to wait anyway. Well first things first which is the dyno.

Thanks all for the posts.

I understand your reasoning perfectly. I have the exact same reservations about getting a flash. However in my case I have already had problems that I have had the dealer work on. They even brought in a specialist to work on my car so there is no way I am going to risk not having them cover something. I also plan on getting the extended warranty so I really want this module to work out. I am very thankful that there is someone else willing to try it out and share their experiences with us. Definitely can't wait for the dyno results!

[dpebenito]

I understand your reasoning perfectly. I have the exact same reservations about getting a flash. However in my case I have already had problems that I have had the dealer work on. They even brought in a specialist to work on my car so there is no way I am going to risk not having them cover something. I also plan on getting the extended warranty so I really want this module to work out. I am very thankful that there is someone else willing to try it out and share their experiences with us. Definitely can't wait for the dyno results!

totally. My intent is to not bad mouth anyone, just share simple facts about this process so we can all benefit. If it turns out it didn't work, then I just move forward all the wiser. i'm likely going to have the dyno done next Thursday or Friday so expect the post then.

On the note about your S6, what problems did you have? Maybe I should look out for them myself just in case.

[dpebenito]

on the note about Dynos, can someone post any successful Dynos after their ECU upgrade (no matter APR, Stasis, piggyback or otherwise)?

[sciblades]

not sure how to make my picture bigger just click on it and you can see it better


483hp 570tq

from what I have read I don't think any members with the apr tune dyoned theirs outside off the dyno graphs on their website which can be found here

478hp 536tq

If I am not mistaken I and I am sure arin can correct me if I am wrong their dyno's are done a dynopack the same as mine were. both are 93 octane runs

[034Motorsport]

Today we had dpebenito's 2014 Audi S6 4.0 TFSI on our Mustang dyno.

We looked at the "ECU Tuning Group" or "Singh Autosport" module. It's basically a crude piggyback/interceptor. I'll do my best to explain what it does as simply and clearly as possible.

It only uses RPM and MAP inputs. It grabs a signal from the cam sensors for RPM, and intercepts the MAP sensors.

All it does is trick the ECU into thinking it's making less boost than it actually is. It doesn't even grab the WGFV (Wastegate Frequency or N75 Valve) signal from the ECU, so it is solely relying on the ECU's built-in PID control to increase boost.

Since it cannot control boost directly, it can only raise boost a minimal amount by scaling the MAP sensor's signal. If it scales it too much, the ECU will throw a code.

The interceptor has no control over even basic mapping like ignition timing, fueling, etc, let alone the ECU's more advanced functions. It is completely dependent on the factory ECU's stock maps, which is amusing considering the company's name would lead one to believe that they tune ECUs.

As expected, gains are minimal compared to what you would get with a proper ECU calibration.

The dyno comparison below is stock vs. "piggybacked" and is in WHP. our Mustang dyno does read lower than Dynapack and Dynojet dynos do, but the delta is what's important.



Does it make a bit more power? Sure.

Does it do so correctly? No. This is something that literally anyone with a basic understanding of electronics could set up or make. It grabs an RPM signal, then scales the signals from the MAP sensor back to the ECU.

Does it make as much power as safely as a proper ECU calibration? No.

If you compare it to APR's software, you will notice drastic differences in the curves. APR's software adds significantly more low-end and midrange torque (the "ECU Tuning Group" interceptor only adds 8 foot-pounds of peak torque), and also emilinates dips in power that are present in the factory mapping.

I believe dpebenito will be coming back as soon as APR has software available for his ECU's software version, and he's looking forward to the gains.

[CreoSTi]

Yeah, pretty much what I was expecting... Oh well, APR better hurry up with their newer version ECU tunes!

lol @ ECU Tuning Group's FAQ;

"Obvious signs of amateur workmanship can be gleaned by asking how many car manufacturers a shop covers. If the shop is capable of tuning one type of car, logic follows that he should be able to tune any car. Software is software after all. Beware of those touting allegiance to one particular manufacturer."

[Ynnekdude]

Good stuff 034. Also, thanks for testing this depebenito.

Looks like it was just another ineffective piggyback pos.

Yeah, pretty much what I was expecting... Oh well, APR better hurry up with their newer version ECU tunes!

lol @ ECU Tuning Group's FAQ;

"Obvious signs of amateur workmanship can be gleaned by asking how many car manufacturers a shop covers. If the shop is capable of tuning one type of car, logic follows that he should be able to tune any car. Software is software after all. Beware of those touting allegiance to one particular manufacturer."

lol... because we all know that tuning just comes down to an understanding of very basic and easily executed software. V8TT Audi = Subaru Flat 4, amirite? Time to open a tuning business.

[dpebenito]

Well there it is guys. Hope this was useful for everyone. Once the APR SW is available, we'll be doing the same dyno test and we'll post again. Next up, shoes! The Vossen CV4s are in at California Wheels in San Jose, CA and I'll be having them put on this Saturday. I'll post pics as soon as they're on. Thanks all for the feedback and input. Thanks Christian @ 034Motorsport for the post.

[CreoSTi]

Hope this was useful for everyone.

Definitely, and thanks again for taking the time to dyno the car with the tune. Are you going to return the module?

[dpebenito]

Definitely, and thanks again for taking the time to dyno the car with the tune. Are you going to return the module?

Yep, that's the plan. Hopefully they're gracious and professional enough to take it back.

[dpebenito]

ETG agreed to take it back and have said that the dyno results are not at all what should be expected. They've welcomed me to return the unit for a full refund as they believe it's likely a programming issue of the module. ...on goes the quest for more HP!

[sciblades]

Well there it is guys. Hope this was useful for everyone. Once the APR SW is available, we'll be doing the same dyno test and we'll post again. Next up, shoes! The Vossen CV4s are in at California Wheels in San Jose, CA and I'll be having them put on this Saturday. I'll post pics as soon as they're on. Thanks all for the feedback and input. Thanks Christian @ 034Motorsport for the post.

Looking forward to your dyno #'s with apr

Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2

[tylerS]

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...re-of-package/

[NunyaBiz]

Interesting read. Unfortunately the end posts were what I was expecting from the beginning. Thankfully the OP saw the light quickly. Usually people just drive around loving the "butt dyno" feeling. Its happened many times in the past. Big for going to get that dyno in a timely manner.