Brake upgrade time

[Tylerm99]

It is time for new brakes on my daily driver B6 and rather than replacing them with OEM I want to upgrade.

I have not been impressed with the braking performance of the stock system. Pedal feel, initial bite and stopping power are all lacking in my opinion.

Mods so far:

APR Stage 1+ ECU tune for 91 octane
K&N panel filter
Sport Cup suspension Kit - H&R Springs With Bilstein Shocks & Struts from ECS.
Stage 1 RA4 Clutch Conversion also from ECS.
18" BBS rims with Nitto Invo rubber.

I feel the car has enough performance (for now) in terms of power but braking is borderline at best. I'll be replacing front and rear rotors/pads regardless so this is a good time to make a change.

The options I am considering are...

Some variety of 330mm Big brake kit (to be able to still fit my 17" winter rims)

• RPI 13" FORGED RACE BRAKE KIT $1595 (I can take a ferry and drive to the shop and pick it up)
• JHM 330mm Front BBK for the B6 A4 ($1930+$260 shipping to Canada and unknown amount for taxes\duty etc)

OR... performance oem size rotors and pads

• Powerslot - Slotted Rotors in 288mm and 245mm with Hawk Pads, Front and Rear (HPS) $475 +? shipping etc to Canada
• EBC Brakes Front Disc Brake Rotor and EBC Brakes Rear Disc Brake Rotor with Hawk HPS pads $610 free shipping
• Both above to include the TyrolSport Brake Caliper Stiffening Kit $95 plus shipping

Is it really worth the additional cost of going to the BBK on a daily driver?

I never take the car on the track but do travel a lot for work. What is my best option here?

Is it possible to source the BBK parts separately within Canada and save on some of the shipping costs?

Hopefully some owners with first hand experience can shed some light on this for me. I've read so many threads and reviews my head is spinning.

Cheers!

[customa4]

I wouldn't put a BBK on a stage 1 A4 but I could almost guarantee your braking would improve. I've heard a lot of good feedback from just upgrading to B6 S4 calipers, rotors, and a decent set of pads.

[SlickFix]

I've heard a lot of good feedback from just upgrading to B6 S4 calipers, rotors, and a decent set of pads.

+1

[Charles.waite]

I would say yes, its worth it. Driving my b7 and my b6 back to back before my brake upgrade, the difference in braking feel was absolutely enormous and my b6 was honestly a bit scary under hard braking. The b7 was MUCH MUCH more confident and just felt so much more solid.

I recently upgraded my stock B6 brakes to B6S4 front brakes (345mm rotors) and B7A4 rear brakes (288mm rotors). Its made a huge difference, though I'm still dealing with a few niggling issues, unrelated to my calipers (my Tyrolsport stiffening kit has a lot of play, I think it might be defective, I'm working with them to resolve it...). For what its worth, "performance" rotors are a joke for the money. They don't offer any actual improvements in braking and affect the longevity of the rotors in the long run. I went with cheap, Centric blank rotors front and rear (Centric manufactures Stoptech and Powerslot so the quality is still quite good, especially for the price). And Akebono Ceramic pads. I can't compare them to Hawks but I'm extremely happy with their lack of dust and the pedal feel is spot on. I hate pads with a lot of initial bite (driving my b7 with OEM pads I always jam on the brakes accidentally even though I've barely touched the pedal I feel) so the Akebonos are great as they are very progressive; pedal pressure and stopping power feel very linear to me.

In any event, I'd NOT bother spending nearly 2k on Brembos (the JHM kit) while only upgrading the front brakes and leaving the tiny ass 245mm rears on there and I've never heard of PRI which makes me leery. I'd stick with OEM and just upsize them. The B7A4 and B6/7S4 brakes are all 100% bolt on and offer a great performance increase. I spent around $1000 (US) total buying my calipers used on eBay and the rotors and pads brand new. I also got new Splash shields (not really necessary, but recommended), stainless lines, and a tyrolsport stiffening kit. If I'd gone with cheaper pads and foregone the shields and lines, I would have come in under $600 easily.

[Tylerm99]

To clarify I would need B6 S4 Calipers and caliper brackets (carriers?) for the calipers to fit correctly? Then it is B6 S4 rotors (maybe new SS lines) and whatever pads I choose?

[texasboy21]

S4 calipers, nice rotors and sticky pads with stainless lines and a fluid flush would be a huge improvement in braking performance over the worn out stock components.

[Charles.waite]

To clarify I would need B6 S4 Calipers and caliper brackets (carriers?) for the calipers to fit correctly? Then it is B6 S4 rotors (maybe new SS lines) and whatever pads I choose?

Yup. 99% of the time, the carriers are included. The B6 and B7 S4 have the same exact brakes and both will fit. FYI in case you see a b7 setup and aren't sure if it'll work. The B7A4 uses the same calipers, but shorter carriers and uses 321mm rotors, not as but an upgrade, but still much better.

[Tylerm99]

Does it look like these include carriers or am I looking at finding carriers as well?

http://www.autopartsway.ca/PartList..../pagenum1/tabS

Also, will the S4 brakes still fit my 17" winter rims?

[MTS]

I went with B7 brakes all the way around. A mild upgrade, it could be said how it should feel as stock. And it's only carriers and rotors to upgrade (the front at least).

[Tylerm99]

I went with B7 brakes all the way around. A mild upgrade, it could be said how it should feel as stock. And it's only carriers and rotors to upgrade (the front at least).

I thought of that route as well but I think I want a bigger upgrade than that. My concern now is if my 17" winter rims will fit over the B6 S4 upgrade or not...

[Charles.waite]

Does it look like these include carriers or am I looking at finding carriers as well?

http://www.autopartsway.ca/PartList..../pagenum1/tabS

Also, will the S4 brakes still fit my 17" winter rims?

That appears to have the carrier. It looks like there's possibly no hardline though which is a bit strange. Not sure if you can buy those separately, so you might want to confirm with the seller that it includes it.

Should fit under 17" wheels.

[Tylerm99]

It looks like there's possibly no hardline though

Ugh... i feel like such a noob... what part is the "hardline?"

Should fit under 17" wheels.

Awesome thanks!

[Charles.waite]

Ugh... i feel like such a noob... what part is the "hardline?"

So in this picture there are two black lines:



There is one vaguely "U" shaped one that comes from a plastic plug and goes into the brake pad. Thats the wear sensor and its just a black vinyl wire loom.

The other, more "Z" shaped black line is the brake hardline. Its a bent metal line that dipped in hard enamel or something. It goes from the brake line bracket into the piston bore. You need that line or else the brakes obviously won't function. A lot of rebuilt calipers don't show that line attached to the caliper. I'm not sure that the stock A4 hardline will transfer over...

[Tylerm99]

OK, so if I need the hard lines I'll have to go to the dealership I suppose. :(

So my shopping list is thus:
B6 S4 Calipers (hopefully includes carriers)
B6 S4 Rotors
B6 S4 Pads
Blake fluid

*optional - stainless lines
*optional - Tyrolsport stiffening kit

Is there anything else I will need or am I good to go?

I really appreciate the help! Thanks so much!

Cheers.

[Charles.waite]

OK, so if I need the hard lines I'll have to go to the dealership I suppose. :(

So my shopping list is thus:
B6 S4 Calipers (hopefully includes carriers)
B6 S4 Rotors
B6 S4 Pads
Blake fluid

*optional - stainless lines
*optional - Tyrolsport stiffening kit

Is there anything else I will need or am I good to go?

I really appreciate the help! Thanks so much!

Cheers.

That should do it. I'd get some new rear carrier bolts too, as they don't tend to last past one removal. For the fronts, you shouldn't have any problems re-using the bolts.

Also if you're getting used calipers, be prepared to rebuild them. Its not hard and won't cost more than $30 but if the seals are worn or just plain old, its a really good idea. I picked a set up at the dealer for $20 I believe.

[EBG 18T]

I would suggest also looking at the Alcon 4 piston kits.

[MikTip]

I went B7 A4.

Same caliper as S4 slightly smaller rotors...but bigger rotors than B6 A4!

The B7 A4 rear rotors are 43mm larger than the stock B6 A4 rear rotors!

Definetly an improvment in brakes!

[Tylerm99]

The B7 A4 rear rotors are 43mm larger than the stock B6 A4 rear rotors!

Same basic shopping list for the rears if I decide to do B7 A4 rears with the B6 S4 fronts? Would that be a good combo?

[MikTip]

Same basic shopping list for the rears if I decide to do B7 A4 rears with the B6 S4 fronts? Would that be a good combo?

I went B7 A4 front and B7 A4 rear. The rears "needed" to be upgraded! The B7 A4 fronts are the same caliper as the S4 only slightly larger rotor.

Front B6 288mm
Front B7 321mm (+33mm)

Rear B6 245mm
Rear B7 288mm (+43mm)

The front caliper is the same as the B7 S4 with shorter carrier.

[Charles.waite]

Same basic shopping list for the rears if I decide to do B7 A4 rears with the B6 S4 fronts? Would that be a good combo?

Exactly what I'm running and they're great. the rears tend to cost more than the fronts as they have the built in e-brake mechanism.

Almost forgot, you'll probably want new slider pins and bushings front and rear. They're also pretty cheap, about $15 per corner. Well worth it as replacing that stuff on the car is a pain, but super super easy on the workbench.

[Tylerm99]

Exactly what I'm running and they're great. the rears tend to cost more than the fronts as they have the built in e-brake mechanism.

Almost forgot, you'll probably want new slider pins and bushings front and rear. They're also pretty cheap, about $15 per corner. Well worth it as replacing that stuff on the car is a pain, but super super easy on the workbench.

Good advice on the slider pins and bushings. I'll get the B7 A4 rears at the same time as they need to be replaced just due to wear at this point.

Any recommendations for pads?

[imnuts]

I have a classified ad for some misc brake parts. Not sure what shipping would be to you, but if you're interested, I'd be willing to drop the price just to get rid of it. It's the front bushings and rear bolts mainly, see here

[andrew.k]

Stock, stage one, + ect, It simply doesn't matter. I agree with Charles on this one... The OEM B6 brakes are absolute horseshit, still boggles my mind how they passed safety standards...

I would recommend at the very least for regular road use and or occasional track use, to consider B5 S4 Dual piston set-up with a good set of pads.

[Tylerm99]

Well, I pulled the trigger and am piecing together my new setup...

I've decided to go with a B6 S4 front setup coupled with a B7 A4 rear setup. I think this is my best bang for the buck and should be easier to find replacement parts down the road as well.

Thanks so much for all your help everyone, I'll try to post an update once I get it installed.

Cheers!

[CyberPMG]

I know you're flushing the brake fluid with the new setup, but you also need to do this every 2 years regardless of miles. Over time, the brake system picks up moisture (water) which will gradually lower the boiling temp of the brake fluid making it feel softer and less responsive. Many people fail to do this basic service. Any DOT 4 compliant fluid will work. This alone can make a significant difference.

[Tylerm99]

I know you're flushing the brake fluid with the new setup, but you also need to do this every 2 years regardless of miles. Over time, the brake system picks up moisture (water) which will gradually lower the boiling temp of the brake fluid making it feel softer and less responsive. Many people fail to do this basic service. Any DOT 4 compliant fluid will work. This alone can make a significant difference.

Great point! I had it done about three years ago but sadly have neglected it until now. Stupid me I know.

[Charles.waite]

^^ Do NOT get ATE Super Blue if you have a manual transmission. Theres a very high likelihood it will cause the slave cylinder to squeak. No beuno.

[Tylerm99]

I picked up Pentosin DOT 4 fluid to put in the brakes... are you referring to the tranny?

[Charles.waite]

Pentosin will be perfect. I recently flushed my brake fluid with ate super blue only to have my clutch slave develop a nasty squeak. Apparently it's quite common with the super blue fluid. Wish I'd known before hand or I would have just used pentosin.

[Tylerm99]

One of the front calipers arrived today, includes carrier and new slider pins and bushings as well. The new B6 S4 caliper is almost 11" long compared to the stock B6 A4 caliper at 8"! I wasn't expecting it to be THAT much bigger! :)



Hard lines did not come with the new caliper so I may need to go to the stealership... or bend my own I guess? Not a huge deal really considering I paid about $370CDN including shipping for both front calipers.

If any other Canadians are looking this is the one I ordered.... http://www.autopartsway.ca/PartList..../pagenum1/tabS

The cost would have been way less but I'm on the hook for the core charge.

I will be updating this thread with a full parts list and pictures once everything arrives and I get the install done. Maybe it will help some-one else out down the road.

Cheers!

Tyler

[iamshayan]

good info. thanks! Will deff have to pick some of those up.
love autopartsway. had me a new condenser in less than 24 hours. Ordered after work one Thursday and it was at my house the next day by noon!

[Tylerm99]

good info. thanks! Will deff have to pick some of those up.
love autopartsway. had me a new condenser in less than 24 hours. Ordered after work one Thursday and it was at my house the next day by noon!

The shipping is insanely fast, too bad they don't have a bigger selection all the time.

[foley803]

I bought a set of S4 calipers and carriers and am wondering what you guys did with the splash shields. The fronts I can reuse the stockers, but the rears look like they'll need to be removed.

[Tylerm99]

I bought a set of S4 calipers and carriers and am wondering what you guys did with the splash shields. The fronts I can reuse the stockers, but the rears look like they'll need to be removed.

I'm still waiting on parts so I have yet to install anything. I'll be sure to update once I find out though.

[Hondasaregay]

Stock, stage one, + ect, It simply doesn't matter. I agree with Charles on this one... The OEM B6 brakes are absolute horseshit, still boggles my mind how they passed safety standards...

I would recommend at the very least for regular road use and or occasional track use, to consider B5 S4 Dual piston set-up with a good set of pads.

Are the b5 s4 brakes better than b6 s4 brakes ? If so, do the b5 s4 rotors bolt right up ?

[ajroy]

Hey if anyone is interested I have a front B6 Porsche Cayenne Setup I'd like to sell. Everything you would need from the C32 rotors (machined to fit A4 Hub) to the RS4 brake lines. I know its not the right place to post this stuff, but I need to have 5 posts before I can actually place a classified ad. PM me if you're interested. Parts are in the NJ/MD region.

[Charles.waite]

Are the b5 s4 brakes better than b6 s4 brakes ? If so, do the b5 s4 rotors bolt right up ?

No. and yes.

The B5S4 calipers are 2 piston, however the B6S4 calipers are better, and lighter, and more compact so wheel fitment really isn't an issue.

[Tylerm99]

Today is a good day!!!

All I need is the hard lines to arrive at the dealership and I get to start putting on all these shiny parts!

Notice the DIY power brake bleeder on the far left? Put that together for about $30 including a build in pressure gauge!

[evo_ski]

Clean your garage before taking pics next time! Sheeesh. The horror!

[Charles.waite]

Man thats an awful space to work.

Mind posting up the part number of the Hard-Line when you get it? Thanks!

Edit: nevermind, found it in ETKA. For posterity, as I didn't think this part was replaceable before:

Right hardline for B6/7 S4 Calipers: 8E0611721F
Left hardline for B6/7 S4 Calipers: 8E0611722F