Steering Issues - 2013

[lapisia]

^ So what you are saying is that if we do the DSR vagcom change it may void the steering warranty? Or do you mean if we made ANY vagcom change they can deny the steering warranty fix?

[afig367]

Additionally, they told me they had been instructed by AoA to deny any warranty claims where the owner has made modifications to the car. So in the case of the steering, if I had made any changes via the VAG-COM, I would then be ineligible for any warranty repairs on the steering, whether related to the change I made or not, including any possible firmware updates. They also stated Audi has given them a tool which compares the state of the firmware on the car to what the factory loaded, and they can detect if any changes have been made.

Can you clarify?

The VAG-COM can only make modifications that Audi makes it possible to change in the first place (e.g., Disable LED 'wink' on signal.... Audi makes it possible to check or uncheck this box.) It is not the same as flashing the ECU which actually changes the underlying code base of the car.

Did the dealer actually state that any change made via the VAG-COM voids the entire car's warranty?

[BzzzBom]

The 2013 definitely has DSR and unchecking this box fixes the slip and drift in lane problem.

[Wilbur]

My service guy didnt appear to know anything about this issue. He said they check for bulletins/software updates when they plug the car in. There is no way that Alu Kreuz will help this at all. If the chassis is that flexible these cars would be unsafe and undriveable.

[bpc135798642]

Can you clarify?

The VAG-COM can only make modifications that Audi makes it possible to change in the first place (e.g., Disable LED 'wink' on signal.... Audi makes it possible to check or uncheck this box.) It is not the same as flashing the ECU which actually changes the underlying code base of the car.

Did the dealer actually state that any change made via the VAG-COM voids the entire car's warranty?

As I understood it, it was about modifications related to the part of the car that you were making a warranty claim for. I think this rule would be easy to apply for physical mods: I doubt that if you have made modifications to the exhaust, they will deny a claim on the steering. However, I see how this this becomes harder to apply regarding VAG-COM changes. I tried to press for more detail, but he shut the conversation down, telling me he strongly advised against any VAG-COM changes.

[rs4dreams]

Just an update from me here, some are FYI, but some may provide additional information:
- I called AoA to complain about the steering issue, and they admitted many people had called in about the issue already, and added me to a list to be notified when a fix was available. They also had no information about if and when this would be occurring. They also insisted I take it back to the dealer to check this was the issue with the car, and it was nothing else. I had ordered some winter wheels and tires through the dealer when I bought the car so I was due to make a trip to pick these up anyway. (Side note: dealer ordered the wheels and tires I wanted through tirerack, matched tirerack's pricing, and let me roll the whole thing into my financing. They also get a wholesale discount and they also made a profit. They left Tirerack's invoice on the wheels so I was able to figure out their margin. Tirerack gave them 11.8% off the retail price and shipping, if anyone is thinking about doing the same thing, it worked out well for all parties).
- The service guy had the head tech take my S4 out for a test drive, while I took another S4 out with the sales guy. My comments to the sales guy during my drive were that the problem was reduced in the car I drove but not completely eliminated. When the head tech got back with my car, he recommended the tire pressures be reduced. It turns out that I had been driving on over-inflated tires for a week. Apparently the factory inflates them to about 60 PSI for transportation so that flat spots do not form. My dealer had gotten the car in a trade with another dealer, so naturally my dealer blamed the other dealer for not deflating the tires when they received the car. I don't know whose job it was to prep the car in the trade situation, but someone screwed up. After driving my car after leaving the dealership, I would say it felt exactly the same as the brand new one I took on a test drive earlier in the afternoon.
- I also talked to the service guy and the sales manager about the DSR and making VAG-COM changes. They checked and insisted the DSR hardware is not present on any cars sold in the US, except the A8. They did comment it was available in the A4 range in Europe. Additionally, they told me they had been instructed by AoA to deny any warranty claims where the owner has made modifications to the car. So in the case of the steering, if I had made any changes via the VAG-COM, I would then be ineligible for any warranty repairs on the steering, whether related to the change I made or not, including any possible firmware updates. They also stated Audi has given them a tool which compares the state of the firmware on the car to what the factory loaded, and they can detect if any changes have been made.
- If they are right about the absence of the DSR hardware in the car, this could still agree with conclusions in this forum. The car could incorrectly think that there is some hardware present, which then brings about the steering response we are seeing, but really the hw is not there, and hence making the VAG-COM change to tell the car it's not there corrects the problem.
- I have taken the S4 for a decent highway drive (250 miles) since the tire pressures were set correctly, and the steering is now sharper, as expected. I have no problem with the weight (steering effort) now after getting used to it. I also don't have a problem with the lack of feedback (and I doubt that would ever be fixed anyway). However, it's still hard to make small, fast adjustments in direction at highway speed. My considered description of the problem is now this: the steering system input and output are non-linear. I have also tested while making very slow adjustments to the steering to remove any impact of the sub-frame. When I make steering wheel adjustments of about +/- 10 degrees the car wheels only turn slightly and the car turns slowly. After a certain point, it feels like the car wheels are turning more, and the car turns more sharply. This means I can either change lanes very slowly (almost drifting into the next lane, certainly not fast enough to be safe), or I turn the wheel more and almost swerve into the next lane. I haven't yet got enough practice to balance these two modes. What it also means is that avoiding highway potholes becomes difficult, when you need to place the wheels very accurately, often with little notice. I also talked to the service guy about this, and he said this is how audi designed the car. With the previous model they were getting complaints that drivers would only turn the wheel slightly and find themselves in the next highway lane, and purposely redesigned the steering this way. To make a gross generalization, there might be some A4 drivers who want their cars to now drive like this, but this design doesn't seem to work for the S4 driver!

Finally - to respond to m j b, there is so much that is so impressive about this car, that this "on center" steering issue is very minor for me. The engine, DSG, exhaust, seats, back-road steering, stereo, sports diff are all so good, I have no regrets about buying the car. The car is so good in so many ways, that I just want to make it perfect, and for me that means addressing this steering issue.

Thanks for checking in. I don't believe there is precedent of denying warranty coverage because of VAG-COM changes so this will be interesting. I would encourage you to try turning off DSR and seeing how it affects the "small, fast highway speed" corrections like avoiding potholes. In my case, it certainly helped. I would say I still feel a bit of the non-linearity you're talking about.

I have the AluKreuz, and USS bars/endlinks.

[bpc135798642]

The 2013 definitely has DSR and unchecking this box fixes the slip and drift in lane problem.

I am not stating that you are wrong, just repeating what the dealer told me. The dealer could also be wrong about the absence of the "feature".

Everyone on the forum seems to agree that unchecking the DSR box via VAG-COM fixes the issue, however the dealer told me AoA would then deny any future warranty claims on the steering.

[gendry]

I think the dealer is conflating ECU tuning with VAG COM changes and would definitely NOT take this at face value.

If AoA ever gets their act together and makes this DSR change an official fix but denies the warranty claim because someone unchecked the DSR box in vagcom on their own, I think it would be time to try and get some publicity on how Audi isn't fixing a safety related issue and is voiding warranty for harmless self-help. Most of the time the slip is merely an annoyance, but its a safety issue the day someone drifts too far into an adjacent lane and causes an accident.

But again this dealer probably doesn't know what they are talking about in this respect. You might wanna check with other local dealers. From that they said, I would beware of them manually TD1ing my car for small mods (like intake, exhaust, short shifter).

As I understood it, it was about modifications related to the part of the car that you were making a warranty claim for. I think this rule would be easy to apply for physical mods: I doubt that if you have made modifications to the exhaust, they will deny a claim on the steering. However, I see how this this becomes harder to apply regarding VAG-COM changes. I tried to press for more detail, but he shut the conversation down, telling me he strongly advised against any VAG-COM changes.

[afig367]

As I understood it, it was about modifications related to the part of the car that you were making a warranty claim for. I think this rule would be easy to apply for physical mods: I doubt that if you have made modifications to the exhaust, they will deny a claim on the steering. However, I see how this this becomes harder to apply regarding VAG-COM changes. I tried to press for more detail, but he shut the conversation down, telling me he strongly advised against any VAG-COM changes.

My guess is the guy you talked to didn't know what he was talking about (and wanted to shut the conversation down to not look stupid). No way VAG-COM changes could void a warranty. It's the way that DIYs and independent shops to do things like reset the calendar for the next oil change.

[afig367]

bpc135798642, since you're Philly..... what dealership?

[bpc135798642]

bpc135798642, since you're Philly..... what dealership?

Don Rosen in Conshohoken

Do you have the DSR box unchecked on yours? It would be great to do an in-person comparison. Please send me a PM if you are interested!

[afig367]

Don Rosen in Conshohoken

Do you have the DSR box unchecked on yours? It would be great to do an in-person comparison. Please send me a PM if you are interested!

PM'd you.

[drob23]

My guess is the guy you talked to didn't know what he was talking about (and wanted to shut the conversation down to not look stupid). No way VAG-COM changes could void a warranty. It's the way that DIYs and independent shops to do things like reset the calendar for the next oil change.

I agree, if these guys think that DSR is only on the A8 then they have no idea what the f@!) they're talking about. Even VW cars like GTI have this. I wouldn't take what they're saying at face value, sounds like trying to cover their asses. If you are talking to a service manager and a salesman, I wouldn't be surprised. If a tech told you this, then I'd be slightly worried.

[spl1011]

drob23 stole the words right off of my keyboard. "DSR" is on VW's for chrissake.
The "Only on the A8" is rubbish and whomever bpc talked to loses any technical credibility right there.

BTW, The Alu Kruez is amazing stuff. Great bang for the buck.

[s4buckeye]

Yes, well ALWAYS trusting sales and service people to know what's up as to the minutiae on the tech on any car is your first mistake....

[BzzzBom]

Yes, well ALWAYS trusting sales and service people to know what's up as to the minutiae on the tech on any car is your first mistake....

Go to your favorite Audi tuner. Ask them nicely to disable DSR which takes 2-3 minutes and never, never, never being this up to anyone at your Audi dealership again.

[newmoon]

Hi. There may be some useful information about the steering in these two VW Self-Study Programs 399 & 374:

http://training.avme.net/admin/Uploa...ssist%20VW.pdf
http://training.avme.net/admin/Uploa...%20Control.pdf

It appears that there are many situations where the electric power steering provides assist on its own, which may cause the strange sensations in the steering wheel that we are experiencing.

SSP 374 says Driver-Steering Recommendation is also known as counter-steer support and is active when braking with uneven grip between the left and right sides, or over-steer.

But there are some other systems that could also cause our strange steering sensations. Disabling DSR in vag-com might also disable these other systems, or it might not...

The problem I had in my 2012 A6 was difficulty keeping the car straight on highways during crosswinds. It seemed that I would counter-steer into the wind, but then it seemed I would overcorrect and have to turn the steering wheel back. But reading the section in SSP 399 called "Straight-ahead steering correction" under "Short-term algorithm":

The short-term algorithm corrects short-term deviations. This relieves the burden on the driver, who, for example, may have to constantly steer against a constant side wind.

1. A constant side force, for example, a side wind is acting on the vehicle.
2. The driver turns the steering wheel to hold the vehicle on a straight-ahead track.
3. By evaluating the steering moment, vehicle speed, engine speed, steering angle, steering speed and characteristic curves stored in the control unit, the control unit calculates the torque required from the electric motor to correct the straight-ahead running.
4. The motor is activated. The vehicle is set to straight-ahead driving. The driver no longer has to “counter-steer”.

So this matches exactly what I was experiencing. After reading this, I tried to resist my instinct to counter-steer into crosswinds, and just hold the steering wheel straight. I found that I was no longer fighting the EPS motor, or sawing back and forth on the steering wheel. The car just tracked straight pretty much on its own.

[mattchat]

My dealership explicitly stated that Audi Canada is enforcing this as a general rule. If owners are making changes, say to make the LEDs brighter and they start burning out...bingo no replacement. Something to think about.

My guess is the guy you talked to didn't know what he was talking about (and wanted to shut the conversation down to not look stupid). No way VAG-COM changes could void a warranty. It's the way that DIYs and independent shops to do things like reset the calendar for the next oil change.

[F40LM]

Well I experienced this issue for the first time this morning.....Was accelerating WOT through a more medium turn this morning on a highway and all the sudden my steering just went limp out of no where. Scared the living hell out of me because I thought my rear end was coming out....it wasn't.

[millerrh]

Well I experienced this issue for the first time this morning.....Was accelerating WOT through a more medium turn this morning on a highway and all the sudden my steering just went limp out of no where. Scared the living hell out of me because I thought my rear end was coming out....it wasn't.

You sure that wasn't the sports diff? Sounds like it could feel like your rear end is coming out if that kicks in. (Of course this coming from a guy who hasn't driven a sports diff model yet, so take with acgrain of salt). People on this post are claiming this is more of a straight-line tracking thing at highway speeds from what I gather.

[F40LM]

You sure that wasn't the sports diff? Sounds like it could feel like your rear end is coming out if that kicks in. (Of course this coming from a guy who hasn't driven a sports diff model yet, so take with acgrain of salt). People on this post are claiming this is more of a straight-line tracking thing at highway speeds from what I gather.

I don't have the sports diff haha. All of the ones that had it in my area were fully loaded and I didn't want a fully loaded car. Unfortunately, the sports diff was the only option I wanted and didn't get it, but as long as I never experience one with a sports diff I'll still be happy haha. I have had my car a little over 2 weeks and am loving it besides this specific pants dirtying situation.

[gendry]

Straight line = not sport diff.

You sure that wasn't the sports diff? Sounds like it could feel like your rear end is coming out if that kicks in. (Of course this coming from a guy who hasn't driven a sports diff model yet, so take with acgrain of salt). People on this post are claiming this is more of a straight-line tracking thing at highway speeds from what I gather.

[millerrh]

Straight line = not sport diff.

He said he experienced it going through a turn. That's why I said that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the steering issue people are talking about in this thread is experienced when going on a straight line at highway speeds, right? That's why I thought his comment about experiencing it in a turn was something else.

[F40LM]

He said he experienced it going through a turn. That's why I said that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the steering issue people are talking about in this thread is experienced when going on a straight line at highway speeds, right? That's why I thought his comment about experiencing it in a turn was something else.

Let me explain further, it was definitely above highway speeds and it was not really a turn, but more of a sweep. I was braking hard coming up on a light and it just went loose and basically instantly came back. That instant that it happened though was very scary haha. There is a chance that outside conditions created that instance, but I haven't experienced anything like that so far and I have taken turns harder than that.

[gendry]

Maybe that's the classic notch problem? I never had it myself (build date of 10/12 so I had new rack from the start), so am speculating.

I def had the slip and in my experience it was only a straight line/near straight line issue. if I was in a long turn (hard or soft), there was never a slip at all.

Let me explain further, it was definitely above highway speeds and it was not really a turn, but more of a sweep. I was braking hard coming up on a light and it just went loose and basically instantly came back. That instant that it happened though was very scary haha. There is a chance that outside conditions created that instance, but I haven't experienced anything like that so far and I have taken turns harder than that.

[F40LM]

Maybe that's the classic notch problem? I never had it myself (build date of 10/12 so I had new rack from the start), so am speculating.

I def had the slip and in my experience it was only a straight line/near straight line issue. if I was in a long turn (hard or soft), there was never a slip at all.

Personally, this is what I think it is: SSP 374 says Driver-Steering Recommendation is also known as counter-steer support and is active when braking with uneven grip between the left and right sides, or over-steer.

I think I may have hit an uneven spot when I was coming around that turn when I was coming to a halt and it slipped. I think I just somehow created a very rare instance in which it occurred.

[Roy34]

I have a 2013 S4 (lease) that has this steering problem. I leased mine in October 2012.

Noticeable at speeds of 30 and up. Car does not like to track properly and constant adjustments at center are necessary. It's pretty bad in the sense that the car will veer out of lane rather quickly if not watching carefully.

It causes a driver confidence problem when accelerating quickly and changing lanes/checking blind spot etc.

It did not happen in the first 1000 miles or so. My wife has a 2011 A4 and her steering is soft but her car tracks beautifully.

What's the latest thinking on what to do about this?

Is it easiest just to do the DSR VAG thing? That fixes the centering issue but does that make the steering tighter because I like a lighter steering.?

[gendry]

Yes! The DSR VAG thing makes the steering slightly tighter in all situations (in addition to fixing the slip).

I have a 2013 S4 (lease) that has this steering problem. I leased mine in October 2012.

Noticeable at speeds of 30 and up. Car does not like to track properly and constant adjustments at center are necessary. It's pretty bad in the sense that the car will veer out of lane rather quickly if not watching carefully.

It causes a driver confidence problem when accelerating quickly and changing lanes/checking blind spot etc.

It did not happen in the first 1000 miles or so. My wife has a 2011 A4 and her steering is soft but her car tracks beautifully.

What's the latest thinking on what to do about this?

Is it easiest just to do the DSR VAG thing? That fixes the centering issue but does that make the steering tighter because I like a lighter steering.?

[Roy34]

Yes! The DSR VAG thing makes the steering slightly tighter in all situations (in addition to fixing the slip).

That is definitely worth a try. Anyone in the Seattle/Bellevue area can help a fella out with a quick VAGging?

[dame drizzo]

The first day I got my car, whilst on the highway at around 65-70, I turned the wheel hard right and hard left while in a straight line and I felt the back kinda spin out. Now I have owned a 2009 b8 and a 2010 b8 prior to this 2013 and they did NOT do that. This is 100% the electric steering. Even with sway bars I didn't feel as much if a difference as when I had them installed on my 2010. Vag code might be able to fix it, I have yet to find some time to do it and test it out. But sway bars + coil overs really did help. Alu Kruez would be my next step to counteract this electric steering.

[bpc135798642]

Hi,
Just another FYI for now, but I had driven another 400 miles or so on the freeway and wasn't happy with the steering on center, so had booked it in at the dealer today. I am going on vacation this week and felt if they had the car for the whole week they could give it an extensive test drive. Anyway, when I checked in today, they told me Audi had released a sw update for the steering designed to "correct straight line tracking issues. Mostly noticed in freezing temperatures". It was only released on 8/22 and the dealer had been updating most models with EM steering yesterday. The dealer is going to update the steering sw on my car and I will pick it up on Thursday evening. I'll update you all what effect it has, if any, on the symptoms I am seeing.

[moose_head]

Anyone know if Audi's official fix is disabling the DSR or are they fixing the DSR feature to make it work properly?

Because, even though I don't completely understand what value this DSR adds, I feel like I want all the features the car comes with!

[audibmi]

Background:

I was one of the first batch of 2013 S4's (05/12 build date). Never had any issues with steering until I got this error message on the DIS and even then it drove fine:



They replaced the steering rack with 8K1-423-055-AC steering module along with 18 various nuts and bolts. I'm probably one of few first batch *Canadian* spec cars to have the updated rack as Audi Canada did not automatically authorize steering rack replacement to correct the notichiness issue.

After the steering rack was replaced, I noticed the steering became lighter and the dreaded slipping kicked in.
I unchecked the DSR as per dollardoctor recommended fix, and the steering firmed up a bit but at the expense of the ABS fault code.

Well today, I got the software update and I am happy to report the steering has firmed up, no slipping, and best of all no ABS fault code. Note that fix keeps the DSR checked and activated.





My VCDS scans also show differences in the Part No SW revisions:

When car was new with the old rack, software version was D
With the new rack installed, software version was E
With today's latest software revision, it changed to F

Old Rack:
Address 44: Steering Assist (J500) Labels: None
Part No SW: 8K0 909 144 D HW: 8K0 909 144 B
Component: RCEPS H36 0505
Revision: 00001000 Serial number: 0022530856
Coding: 100000010001
Shop #: WSC 06324 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_RCEPSAU48X 005010
ROD: EV_RCEPSAU48X.rod
VCID: 32600A326534409

New rack:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist (J500) Labels: 8K0-909-144.clb
Part No SW: 8K0 909 144 E HW: 8K0 909 144 B
Component: RCEPS H37 0506
Revision: 00001000 Serial number: 0011133344
Coding: 100000010001
Shop #: WSC 91445 999 100729
ASAM Dataset: EV_RCEPSAU48X 006012
ROD: EV_RCEPSAU48X.rod
VCID: 336E0F369A89C880ECE

No fault code found.


New rack with new software:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist (J500) Labels: 8K0-909-144.clb
Part No SW: 8K0 909 144 F HW: 8K0 909 144 B
Component: RCEPS H37 0507
Revision: 00001000 Serial number: 0011133344
Coding: 100000010001
Shop #: WSC 91445 999 10072
ASAM Dataset: EV_RCEPSAU48X 008014
ROD: EV_RCEPSAU48X.rod
VCID: 346C0C2A9F87CFB8F43

[rs4dreams]

Background:

They replaced the steering rack with 8K1-423-055-AC steering module along with 18 various nuts and bolts. I'm probably one of few first batch *Canadian* spec cars to have the updated rack as Audi Canada did not automatically authorize steering rack replacement to correct the notichiness issue.

After the steering rack was replaced, I noticed the steering became lighter and the dreaded slipping kicked in.
I unchecked the DSR as per dollardoctor recommended fix, and the steering firmed up a bit but at the expense of the ABS fault code.

Well today, I got the software update and I am happy to report the steering has firmed up, no slipping, and best of all no ABS fault code. Note that fix keeps the DSR checked and activated.

Just want to clarify: are you saying that you were experiencing slipping even with the DSR fix and now it's firmed up? How would you describe the difference between DSR off pre-update and post-update?

[Bronx Cheer]

Background:

I was one of the first batch of 2013 S4's (05/12 build date). Never had any issues with steering until I got this error message on the DIS and even then it drove fine:

...SNIP...

Well today, I got the software update and I am happy to report the steering has firmed up, no slipping, and best of all no ABS fault code. Note that fix keeps the DSR checked and activated.

Excellent news, Audibmi. US cannot be that far behind Canada.

Here is some update on my 2013 S4, build date Oct 2012, delivery in April 2013 (I bought it as a dealer transfer).

I had the slip at purchase, and noticed occasionally some dead feeling at center. This really ticked me off, as I was coming from an M3 with pristine steering and the cars I test drove seemed to have much better steering. At about 3k miles I started getting a notchiness at 12 o'clock, which came and went. In short, I was starting to get a bit of buyer's remorse about the car.

At 5k service in July, I complained about the steering and mentioned both the notchiness (presumably steering rack) and floaty/slip (presumably software) issues. The tech was understanding about it and handed me my car back saying that they indeed could reproduce the problem, that the problem was not a safety issue (yeah, right!), and that they were waiting for an official fix from AOA. I also got told by the lead tech that he had seen a bunch of cars with the problem and that my car had it as bad as any he had come across. This made me feel OK as I feared that I would get the dreaded "tech could not reproduce" diagnosis and be stuck with the cycle of having to try and get somebody to ride with me on a day when it was really acting up. I left generally happy with my level of service since I was told they would get back to me as soon as they heard from AOA.

Fast forward to 3 weeks ago, I got a call from my tech to bring my car in for a rack replacement. I dropped it off that day, got my loaner, and was back in my car within 48 hours. I asked expressly about whether they applied a software fix and the tech stated no, and stated that according to his understanding one was not necessary (this concerned me a bit). My ticket lists only a warranty rack replacement with no mention of software flash or recoding.

I can report that the notchiness is completely gone, and that the steering feedback seems less floaty. All told, the car is much improved and now feels like a sporty sedan instead of my grandad's old Caddy. The steering is still not nearly as confidence inspiring as the M3, but I don't know if that is because I still have not applied the software fix or if, simply, that is because of the inherent nature of the cars I am comparing. I also have not had any noticable instances of slip, but I also have not been driving much since the fix (summer travels, etc.) and that problem always was something that appeared maybe once a month.

If anyone has VAG com in the Washington DC (NOVA) areas let me know and I would be happy to let you run a scan and see if they upgraded my software, disabled DSR, or if I am still running an older version with DSR enabled.

Thanks to all for this mega-thread - it has been helpful.

[Celiot29]

Excellent news, Audibmi. US cannot be that far behind Canada.

Here is some update on my 2013 S4, build date Oct 2012, delivery in April 2013 (I bought it as a dealer transfer).

I had the slip at purchase, and noticed occasionally some dead feeling at center. This really ticked me off, as I was coming from an M3 with pristine steering and the cars I test drove seemed to have much better steering. At about 3k miles I started getting a notchiness at 12 o'clock, which came and went. In short, I was starting to get a bit of buyer's remorse about the car.

At 5k service in July, I complained about the steering and mentioned both the notchiness (presumably steering rack) and floaty/slip (presumably software) issues. The tech was understanding about it and handed me my car back saying that they indeed could reproduce the problem, that the problem was not a safety issue (yeah, right!), and that they were waiting for an official fix from AOA. I also got told by the lead tech that he had seen a bunch of cars with the problem and that my car had it as bad as any he had come across. This made me feel OK as I feared that I would get the dreaded "tech could not reproduce" diagnosis and be stuck with the cycle of having to try and get somebody to ride with me on a day when it was really acting up. I left generally happy with my level of service since I was told they would get back to me as soon as they heard from AOA.

Fast forward to 3 weeks ago, I got a call from my tech to bring my car in for a rack replacement. I dropped it off that day, got my loaner, and was back in my car within 48 hours. I asked expressly about whether they applied a software fix and the tech stated no, and stated that according to his understanding one was not necessary (this concerned me a bit). My ticket lists only a warranty rack replacement with no mention of software flash or recoding.

I can report that the notchiness is completely gone, and that the steering feedback seems less floaty. All told, the car is much improved and now feels like a sporty sedan instead of my grandad's old Caddy. The steering is still not nearly as confidence inspiring as the M3, but I don't know if that is because I still have not applied the software fix or if, simply, that is because of the inherent nature of the cars I am comparing. I also have not had any noticable instances of slip, but I also have not been driving much since the fix (summer travels, etc.) and that problem always was something that appeared maybe once a month.

If anyone has VAG com in the Washington DC (NOVA) areas let me know and I would be happy to let you run a scan and see if they upgraded my software, disabled DSR, or if I am still running an older version with DSR enabled.

Thanks to all for this mega-thread - it has been helpful.

The software update resulted in more weight to the steering and of course no more notchy slipping, get it done for sure

[visualguy]

Now that Audi seems to have figured out the problem, they should come clean and explain what is going on in a proper TSB. I still don't know if my '13 S5 which was made in 8/2012 would need a new rack, new software, or both. I haven't experienced problems so far, so no urgency, but I'd like to know...

[Bronx Cheer]

Anyone have insight into their being a version 3.0 rack (i.e., a second try at improving the rack)? In the VAGCOM steering fix thread somebody mentioned that they were told in early August that there was an even newer rack. I was wondering whether this fact was confirmed, and thus whether I got the newest rack version.

[visualguy]

Anyone have insight into their being a version 3.0 rack (i.e., a second try at improving the rack)? In the VAGCOM steering fix thread somebody mentioned that they were told in early August that there was an even newer rack. I was wondering whether this fact was confirmed, and thus whether I got the newest rack version.

We don't even know if any rack changes were really needed - maybe the new software fixes all of them. There's just no good information on these things, and the dealerships seem to be as much in the dark as we are.

[thedollardoctor]

Glad to hear that those who have had steering software update applied are happy with the results! That's great news!

For me, I'll be staying put with my new rack and DSR unchecked. I am very happy with current setup and with the fact that I am Stage II and DSG tuned...... don't really have any desire to hook my ECU up to Audi's computers anyway ;-)