034Motorsport B5 S4 Single Turbo Kit *Teaser*

[DeleriousZ]

$400 sounds about right for a high end wastegate, some are even more than that.

$500 if you're paying someone to fabricate it for you is actually not too bad, especially if it includes material.

[Aggv]

and why would intercooler piping cost 500?

Because they had to use an ivory jig, a union welder and lance armstrong to power the generator... Or "because it's a 50k car"

[Monty23]

and why would intercooler piping cost 500?

Just a rough guesstimate... it includes piping, couplers, clamps, welding... I would rather over budget....

What price do you think is realistic for intercooler piping?

[AudiA4_20T]

Can't wait to see results Max

[034Motorsport]

Max is out of the office until Monday, so I'll contribute another piece of the puzzle... We had the B5 Audi S4 2.7T and B5 Audi A4 2.8L 30V exhaust manifolds flow tested. Here are the numbers and some comparison shots:

[Rdp616]

Wow, makes you wonder why Audi never used the same size Manifolds on the 2.7t? No reason to NOT use these now, especially for how easy they are to get ahold of. The flow difference between the 2 is pretty wild.

[034Motorsport]

Wow, makes you wonder why Audi never used the same size Manifolds on the 2.7t? No reason to NOT use these now, especially for how easy they are to get ahold of. The flow difference between the 2 is pretty wild.

The smaller runners on the 2.7T manifold result in higher exhaust gas velocity, which contributes to faster spool.

Since they flow more than enough for stock turbos at stock boost levels, this design allows for quicker boost response.

[DeleriousZ]

Interesting. What are the port size differences between the 2.7 and 2.8 heads?

The engineers at Audi are no dummies, they must have put lots of flow testing and CFD modeling into their manifolds to know which worked best for each motor and application. The 2.8 manifolds look like they have a very short exit runner then merge into a collective chamber before exiting into the downpipe, whereas the 2.7's have longer runners that have more of a shape to them, with a smaller collective chamber. I imagine they were more worried about exhaust energy/velocity pre-turbo and flow direction/pulse control than all out flow.

There's no doubt the 2.8 manifolds would be great for top end power, but maybe not so much for response. I'm just bench racing though, the real numbers will tell the story when the time comes!

[zdriver]

I'm slowly learning but this info is very interesting to me

[S4 00 2.7]

Thanks for the update.

[Meow]

Its kind of obvious that pipes with massive 90 degree bends in them don't flow as much as ones without them. 90 degree bends impede flow huge, hack those bends off and test them again...





The port size is pretty damn small on those turbo manifolds too, which plays a larger roll as well in flow.

I imagine they were more worried about exhaust energy/velocity pre-turbo and flow direction/pulse control than all out flow.

Because racecar.

[jibberjive]

Its kind of obvious that pipes with massive 90 degree bends in them don't flow as much as ones without them. 90 degree bends impede flow huge, hack those bends off and test them again...

Why would they hack off anything, when they were both tested in the configuration that they're going to be used in? And of course 90 degree bends and sharp corners affect pressure losses and flow, but the radiused bends of pipe don't affect it anywhere near as drastically as that CFD picture of the sharp 90 deg corner illustrates.

Edit: What is your screen name on other forums btw?

[udcc11]

Probably been asked before but is the RS4 exhaust manifold different than the S4?

[034Motorsport]

Its kind of obvious that pipes with massive 90 degree bends in them don't flow as much as ones without them.

No wai, rly?

90 degree bends impede flow huge, hack those bends off and test them again...

No thanks. The kit is designed around the 2.8L 30V exhaust manifolds because they are readily available, easy to find, and affordable.

Something tells me that if we wanted to manufacture our own manifolds, we could to a lot better than either of these options. That gets very expensive very quickly, and would put the price of the kit way higher than what we are targeting.

The port size is pretty damn small on those turbo manifolds too, which plays a larger roll as well in flow.

I couldn't tell from the pictures. You say big pipe flow more?

Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way, but it seems like there is absolutely no winning on the forums:

• When we design a product around sound principles and common sense, we get bashed for not publishing test results.
• When we design a product around an existing factory part, and publish some flow data for it, we get bashed for posting something that is obvious.

I can't tell if you're implying that we didn't know that the 2.8L 30V manifolds flow more than the stock 2.7T ones do. We did. I think any human being born with more than just a brain stem could look at the two and figure it out.

However, nobody knew how much more, so we flowed them for comparison purposes, and posted the information for those who were interested.

[nthusiastt]

I'm acting like a donny right now but are you guys using the stock a4 manifolds?

[034Motorsport]

I'm acting like a donny right now but are you guys using the stock a4 manifolds?

Yup.

[nthusiastt]

^^ That's badass and resourceful. Way to keep the costs down!

[034Motorsport]

Just so it is clear, since a few people have PM'ed me about this, but the 2.8L manifolds cannot be used in a twin turbo configuration do the angle of discharge. However, that angle is perfect for our single turbo setup.

As Laszlo has mentioned, we decided to use the A4 2.8L NA manifolds as the basis for the kit to keep costs down. By negating the need for custom log or tubular SCH10 manifolds (or doing a casting run) we can keep the cost very competitive and focus on other components, such as the downpipe and manifold up-pipe.

These manifolds are a dime a dozen in junkyards and can be found for extremely cheap. Their cast construction means they will be more resilient to the heat stresses of turbo applications versus a typical welded manifold.

And while you are right that Audi isn't stupid, they designed the 2.7t manifolds with a LOT MORE in mind then pure performance. While velocity is indeed very important pre-turbo, the velocity the Audi engineers were trying to achieve is far more geared towards K03 or K04 turbos and low end performance.

Stock 2.7T and even RS4 heads are limited to an RPM due to their valve and valve spring construction. They are also geared to flow the needs of K03/K04 turbos. Everyone has agreed that 2.8L cylinder heads and cams have huge advantages in big turbo and higher then stock RPM/boost situations, so it is only natural to match these larger intake/exhaust ports with a higher flowing manifold.

By shifting the powerband to the right, the increased velocity becomes a flow hindrance. Larger manifolds address this. Ideally we would be using tubular manifolds to maximize exhaust pulse, etc, but it would add over $1000 to the overall cost of the kit, and the primary focus is to deliver something with huge performance but at a more accessible price point.

I apologize if I have not responded to some folk's emails and PM's; I return to the office tomorrow.

-Max

[bgzs4]

I love the fact it is designed around the 2.8 manifolds, a clever solution I would have never expected. Keep it up guys!!

[Meow]

• When we design a product around sound principles and common sense, we get bashed for not publishing test results.
• When we design a product around an existing factory part, and publish some flow data for it, we get bashed for posting something that is obvious.

Woah woah woah sorry man, didn't mean any harm by that, I just thought it was a silly comparison. Its pretty obvious that the 2.8 manifolds will flow more and will be easier to use for your setup. Its a great idea with the size of the manifolds, and it is probably easier to make your extensions from those to the single a lot easier than with 2.7t manifolds. I didn't mean to bash you for posting the obvious. If you were going to use the 2.7t manifolds, i would assume using them without the large 90 degree bends, that is why I made the joke about hacking them off.

Thanks for sharing the information, Its good to show that the general assumptions that we all make about flow are accurate with testing. No harm intended

[itguy]

Woah woah woah sorry man, didn't mean any harm by that, I just thought it was a silly comparison. Its pretty obvious that the 2.8 manifolds will flow more and will be easier to use for your setup. Its a great idea with the size of the manifolds, and it is probably easier to make your extensions from those to the single a lot easier than with 2.7t manifolds. I didn't mean to bash you for posting the obvious. If you were going to use the 2.7t manifolds, i would assume using them without the large 90 degree bends, that is why I made the joke about hacking them off.

Thanks for sharing the information, Its good to show that the general assumptions that we all make about flow are accurate with testing. No harm intended

[The_Auto_Tech]

Get off of it.

[UkuRiSh]

Hey Max ,

I would love to see flow test on 2.7 cast manifold did you test that manifold ?

[034Motorsport]

Hey Max ,

I would love to see flow test on 2.7 cast manifold did you test that manifold ?

The Wagner manifolds flow very well and have considerable time spent on designing the merge collector. There are even gains on K04 turbos, but the price can be tough to justify for the gains you get. However, when you've maxed out your Stage 3 setup, being able to find another 20whp is pretty difficult. I'll look for the flow numbers.

[Aggv]

Love those wagner manifolds, and would be a must have for a Tial build imo.

[angry12v]

[low02s4]

Can't wait for the kit to be available..

[034Motorsport]

Since I've been out of town, here's one from last week.

[Rdp616]

Do you plan on running a blanket over the hot side of the turbo? I'd imagine most guys with stock hoods and insulation probably should. Tho they aren't exactly cheap..

[Matador]

Do you plan on running a blanket over the hot side of the turbo? I'd imagine most guys with stock hoods and insulation probably should. Tho they aren't exactly cheap..

$100 bucks "isn't cheap" in terms of a multi-thousand dollar build? It's cheap enough to be an incidental in the grand scheme of the build.

[Monty23]

I'm surprised to not see a turbo blanket as well... especially while your car is motor boating the dyno fans....

[UkuRiSh]

Nice carbon fiber hood man , it's help a lot :) specialty in hot water .

[034Motorsport]

The blanket just wasn't installed when the photo was taken, because we are interested in the underhood temps without one. This way, we have a control to compare to.

[Rdp616]

$100 bucks "isn't cheap" in terms of a multi-thousand dollar build? It's cheap enough to be an incidental in the grand scheme of the build.

In most cases, after your normal guy drops thousands of dollars on a build, it is kind of hard to justify spending 200$+ on a heat wrap..And go head and buy a cheap blanket and see how it is after a year..

[Matador]

In most cases, after your normal guy drops thousands of dollars on a build, it is kind of hard to justify spending 200$+ on a heat wrap..And go head and buy a cheap blanket and see how it is after a year..

These guys seem to have an excellent rep, even after said year:
http://www.ptpturboblankets.com/index.shtml

Oh, and how they actively test and defend their product against disgruntled ex-employees:
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/engine...ml#post2627153

[034Motorsport]

Don't get too far off topic guys!

Things are going great and we will be releasing some pricing details before the weekend!

Pic from our facebook;

[KidGT]

Pure sex.

[theproducer]

<3. too bad im getting rid of my B5...

[nothingbutwin]

<3. too bad im getting rid of my B5...

mines for sale, but might just end up keeping it!

[034Motorsport]

Announcing some pricing tomorrow (Friday), stay tuned!

Maybe even a video.