My $360 audio upgrade (base stereo)

[eelton]

I got a deal on an S4 that I couldn't pass up, but it didn't have the B&O stereo. I did some speaker upgrades that were relatively cheap, and that made a big difference, so I thought I'd post my experience in case it helps anyone.

The parts were:

• Image Dynamics ID10 V3 D4 subwoofer, $139
• Three Dayton Audio RS75-4 3-inch full range drivers, $22 each
• JL Audio C2-075CT tweeters, $68
• 25 square feet of Fatmat, $55
• Angled speaker ring for subwoofer, $32

I've heard the B&O stereo, which to me is good, but not amazing. Listening to the same CD I used when testing the B&O, which I'm familiar with on many different home and car audio systems (The Killers, Hot Fuss), I think the upgrades I made make for sound that's at least as good as (and probably better than) the B&O. I'm not suggesting that anyone intentionally forego the B&O, since, although this route was cheaper, it was a fair amount of work. On the other hand, if you find yourself with the base system and want to make improvements, this is a reasonable way to go.



In descending order of sound improvement:


1) Replacing the side dash tweeters with the Dayton Audio full range drivers.

The stock tweeter is on the left, and the Dayton Audio driver on the right. I made mounting brackets--not pretty, but they don't show:




Incidentally, I have a suspicion that the tweeters are the same ones as in the B&O system (but mounted on the dash instead of the sail panels). The part number of the B&O tweeter is 8T0353999B, and the base stereo tweeter is 8T0353999A (just the last letter is different). They're in different housings, but the drivers themselves look the same. Here is the B&O tweeter (from the AudiEnthusiasts writeup for installing the B&O tweeters in the base system):




Installing the Dayton Audio drivers wasn't too bad, and the improvement in sound for $44 was well worth it. Making the mounting brackets was probably the worst part.




2. FatMat in the doors.

I did it at the same time as installing tweeters in the sail panels, but this noticeably improved the tightness of the bass, which had a boomy/resonant sound before.



3. Putting the JL Audio tweeters in the sail panels.

I didn't take pictures, but it's pretty much the same as the Audi Enthusiasts writeup on installing the B&O tweeers. The JL housings fit perfectly into the stock (empty) space; I just glued them in place. By far the worst part was poking hundreds of holds in the speaker [non-]grills. The sound is crisper and clearer with the tweeters. I chose the JL Audio tweeters rather than the B&O because of my suspicion above--that I would be ending up with the same tweeters as the ones I just took out of the dash.



4. Replacing the subwoofer.

I chose the Image Dynamics model because it's said to be usable in an infinite baffle installation. The impedance of the stock subwoofer measured 2 ohms, so I wired the two voice coils on the new subwoofer in parallel, which also gave a measured impedance of 2 ohms. I used an angled speaker ring (made by eBay member avpriority), 1.75 inches in the back and 0.75 inches in the fron, 9.125 inches inside diameter and 10.125 inches outside diameter. That resulted in the subwoofer being level with the ground. I also put FatMat on the parcel shelf, but here's a picture before doing so:






5. Replacing the center channel speaker

I was surprised that this didn't make a huge difference. The stock speaker was really cheap looking. Here it is on the left, with my replacement Dayton Audio RS75-4 on the right:




And here are the backs of the stock center dash speaker on the left, and the stock tweeter on the right. If it helps anyone, the measured impedance of the center channel speaker was 3.6 ohms and of the tweeter, 6.2 ohms.

[Dr GP]

Good to know and thanks for the info. In retrospect, would you fore go the center speaker replacement since it had minimal improvement.

[tomh009]

I got a deal on an S4 that I couldn't pass up, but it didn't have the B&O stereo. I did some speaker upgrades that were relatively cheap, and that made a big difference, so I thought I'd post my experience in case it helps anyone.

The parts were:

• Image Dynamics ID10 V3 D4 subwoofer, $139
• Three Dayton Audio RS75-4 3-inch full range drivers, $22 each
• JL Audio C2-075CT tweeters, $68
• 25 square feet of Fatmat, $55
• Angled speaker ring for subwoofer, $32

I've heard the B&O stereo, which to me is good, but not amazing. Listening to the same CD I used when testing the B&O, which I'm familiar with on many different home and car audio systems (The Killers, Hot Fuss), I think the upgrades I made make for sound that's at least as good as (and probably better than) the B&O. I'm not suggesting that anyone intentionally forego the B&O, since, although this route was cheaper, it was a fair amount of work. On the other hand, if you find yourself with the base system and want to make improvements, this is a reasonable way to go.[/IMG]

Thanks for all the details! How much work would you figure it is to do these replacements?

[eelton]

In retrospect, would you fore go the center speaker replacement since it had minimal improvement.

I'd probably still do it, since it was the easiest of any of the swaps, and only cost $22.

[ENV²]

Do you think if you could do it again you would use a better center channel speaker? And if so which one?

[eelton]

How much work would you figure it is to do these replacements

Well, I have little to no experience doing this, so I took it slow. The total time was probably about 12 hours, with some trial and error involved.

Do you think if you could do it again you would use a better center channel speaker? And if so which one?

The Dayton Audio speakers (despite their low price) are quite good. I've seen writeups of using a 3 inch Hertz or Audison driver in the center of the dash, but they're quite expensive (hundreds) and only come as pairs. I had originally planned on putting a 4 inch speaker, but there's no space--the 3 inch just barely fits.

EDIT:
Having said that, I see there is a pair of used Hertz 3 inch midrange drivers on eBay. Tempting, if anyone wanted to split the pair with me.

[zerinA4]

Oh man, love me some Image Dynamics. Used to run IDQ10s, IDQ12s and an IDMax12s back in my car audio days haha.

[eelton]

I tried listening over each speaker with a stethoscope...I think the reason replacing the center channel makes only a small difference is that there's not a huge amount of sound information coming out of it. There's certainly a lot more from the side speakers in the dash.

[tomh009]

Thinking about starting with steps 1 & 2 ... making a mounting bracket (from a thin plastic sheet?) seems OK. How much disassembly is required? Remove the door panels for the mat, but what about the in-dash speakers. Do the grilles just pop off?

[eelton]

Thinking about starting with steps 1 & 2 ... making a mounting bracket (from a thin plastic sheet?) seems OK. How much disassembly is required? Remove the door panels for the mat, but what about the in-dash speakers. Do the grilles just pop off?

Yes, the grills pop off easily. I used a nylon trim removal tool (available for cheap on eBay). My tip would be to avoid inserting the pry tool very far under the grill--there's a plastic frame underneath that does not come out. The grill itself is thin--more like a mat. (The opposite is true when removing the grills from the rear deck--you do need to insert the tool deeply, or you will break a piece off, as I did.)

I made the mounting brackets with some plastic from a planter box someone was throwing out, using a Dremel. I'm not very facile with that, but it wasn't too bad. It did take lots of sanding to get the shape right.

If you have the doors off, I'd definitely recommend installing some tweeters. 90% of the work is done at that point. (OK, except for poking holes in the grills. Maybe it would be better to get tweeters with separate grills, and then cut a hole in the sail panel covers for them.)

I was driving around for a couple of hours today, doing some more listening. I'm very pleased with the way it sounds--really a huge improvement. When I first picked up the car, I wondered if I was going to be able to live with the crappy stereo. Now it's a pleasure to listen to. Not the best I've heard in a car (that honor goes to an Aston Martin with the premium audio option), but still quite good.

[tomh009]

Thanks, very helpful. Something to plan for the springtime when the garage is a little bit warmer ...

[yukstah]

The absolute weakest link in my '12 S4 is the stereo. Dealer didn't have a car on the lot with the B&O that my '10 had and I regret buying the car every time I drive her for that single reason.

Is the stock amp powerful enough to drive the subwoofer?

[mbgt72]

I've never seen a stock amplifier that really did a good job pushing aftermarket components, especially considering the B&O probably pushes a little more power than the base audio pkg. Tweeters ya can get away with which I understand (and probably why you left the stock woofers?), but the subwoofer has to be struggling. I'm sure it's a huge improvement over stock, but I wouldn't be shocked to hear that the sub has blown due to lack of power or otherwise (unless it's a very low rms style sub, I don't know it's details). Also, as I'm unfamiliar with the setup of the stock subwoofer and the details on that sub, is it an infinite baffle setup?

Great writeup and install job though. It's amazing what a little sound deadening placed in the right place makes. I wouldn't be surprised if the components used could be considered an improvement even over the B&O setup. It's amazing how cheap even the "premium" pkg sound system components actually are. It's ashamed, but most the time it's just a badge to sell a pkg. Even swapping out a quality amplifier on stock components makes a huge difference most of the time.

[Hpc3]

Thx for the writeup.

[eelton]

I wouldn't be shocked to hear that the sub has blown due to lack of power or otherwise (unless it's a very low rms style sub, I don't know it's details). Also, as I'm unfamiliar with the setup of the stock subwoofer and the details on that sub, is it an infinite baffle setup?

No problems so far. I'm not one to try to shake the next car over with the bass, but I've played the stereo moderately loudly, with the subwoofer control at the mid position. I don't hear any signs of distortion--it sounds very clean. And since it takes a 10-fold increase in power to sound twice as loud, for my purposes (with the volume levels I listen at) the 180 watt output of the stock amp isn't hugely different from the 505 watts of the B&O.

Yes, the stock subwoofer is an infinite baffle setup.

How does a subwoofer blow from a lack of power? I could see how the amp could clip or otherwise distort...is that damaging to a subwoofer/speaker?

[eelton]

How does a subwoofer blow from a lack of power? I could see how the amp could clip or otherwise distort...is that damaging to a subwoofer/speaker?

OK, having done some research, I've read that extreme clipping--leading to a square wave output from the amp--can blow a speaker due to lack of voice coil cooling. However, this won't happen if the speaker is rated to handle 3-4 times the power output. (Here is my reference: www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm). The Image Dynamics ID10 is rated for 400 watts, so I think I should be fine. (Plus I wouldn't drive the system to extreme clipping or obvious distortion.)

[yukstah]

Any chance you have more photos of the install in the dash or the sub in your trunk?

[eelton]

Any chance you have more photos of the install in the dash or the sub in your trunk?

Sorry, no, but there's great info on the subwoofer installation here.

The dash speakers are easy once you get the mounting brackets made in the right size and shape. Just remove the grilles, remove the old speakers (two screws each), cut off the original connectors (I initially tried wire taps, but they didn't work well for these small wires), and solder the wires from the new speakers. The wires to pin 2 on the original connectors are the positive leads.

[jbradle7]

Nice work!

[aryaf]

I'm thinking about putting these ones in:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1083032...2cf.html?tp=96

[Daze513]

How do the Dayton's sound in volume compared to the oem tweeters? I'm just worried as these Dayton's have a sensitivity of 83. I've seen higher sensitivity drivers that why I ask about volume.

[NPuter]

Do you think just upgrading the three dash speakers with the Dayton Audio drivers would make a noticeable improvement?
Would I loose too much high end?

[You-S4-It]

How do the Dayton's sound in volume compared to the oem tweeters? I'm just worried as these Dayton's have a sensitivity of 83. I've seen higher sensitivity drivers that why I ask about volume.

I just did the 2 side dash speaker install this weekend with the Daytons and they do sound louder. I backed off the fader one notch. I think it has to do with the "amount" of music now coming from the front. The Daytons give you much more midrange than just pure highs so it "sounds" louder. And more importantly, better. I have not done the door pillar tweeters yet.

Just two additional comments on an otherwise exceptional DIY,

1) the OEM speaker wires are REALLY short so I needed to make a set of extensions to have enough length to finagle with dropping in the Dayton speakers. Stuff a rag down the speaker hole when you're working on it because if you drop something down (like a wire connecter! D'oh!), you'll never get it back.

2) I found the template that you need to cut for the Daytons can be trimmed closer to the speaker and don't have to match the exact same dimensions as the OEM. In order to put the new speakers in, you have to tilt the speakers forward (almost like perpendicular to the front windshield glass) to get it to drop into the notch in the front. That's what I did anyway and it worked fine. The driver's side seems much closer to the glass than the passenger's side.




The backside of Dayton has a much larger magnet and more overall depth than OEM and its a bit more challenging to put back in without trimming it down a bit. I did notice a little bit of gap in the hole vs the template when I put it back in but nothing critical and of course, it allowed for easier installation.

As for my next "easy mod", wondering about using 2 ohm infinity tweeter in the center channel would improve the highs but also, considering whether or not I need "more" up front". My understanding is, if I go to a 2 ohm, the center channel will be slightly louder than the stock 4 ohm which is what everyone had said previously, there's not much going on in the center. A 2 ohm speaker might change that. This might give me even more up front. For now, it sounds much better!

[Daze513]

Do you think just upgrading the three dash speakers with the Dayton Audio drivers would make a noticeable improvement?
Would I loose too much high end?

Another good question. I'd like to upgrade all 3 dash speakers but I don't want to lose the highs that a dedicated tweeter provides. I may just move the existing tweeters to the sails.

[You-S4-It]

Another good question. I'd like to upgrade all 3 dash speakers but I don't want to lose the highs that a dedicated tweeter provides. I may just move the existing tweeters to the sails.

I'm not sure if you're "losing" highs as opposed to now getting it more masked with the mids. As I said, it just sounds fuller - not that there's a loss in highs. The Dayton spec sheets say it goes all the way to 20K and actually starts to rise so you're still getting the highs with the speaker.

http://www.daytonaudio.com/media/res...ions-46834.pdf

As for moving the dash to the sails, while they might be the same actual tweeter, the bracket that holds the dash tweeters are molded plastic around the tweeter itself so you can't reuse them without grinding/breaking them apart. Might be cleaner if you just buy either the B&O OEM tweeters or use the JLs the OP dropped in.

As I said, I might consider using a 2ohm tweeter in the center channel to get a little more shimmer but honestly at this point, it sounds pretty good. Yeah, if I ever open up the door panel, I'd probably do the sail tweeters but to me, if I'm going to open the door panels, I be more interested in dynamatting it to get rid of those annoying rattles which would be the bigger benefit.

[jdwk]

Nice job. Always rewarding when you do things yourself and they turn out better than the factory.

If you factor in your time and then the residual value of having the option on the car vs an aftermarket system, it is probably a wash, but at least this way you have better sound for the time you have the car and the satisfaction of having done it yourself.

[Point.Blank]

How did you fit the Dayton 3" in the center? There is a cup inside once you take out the oem center that fits to the speaker. After making a baffle and setting the Dayton in it didn't fit. Think im fine with cutting the plastic piece under the center speaker?

[You-S4-It]

How did you fit the Dayton 3" in the center? There is a cup inside once you take out the oem center that fits to the speaker. After making a baffle and setting the Dayton in it didn't fit. Think im fine with cutting the plastic piece under the center speaker?

I assume you're asking the OP. I still haven't done the center channel.

eelton????

[jfo]

Do the side dash tweeters in the basic system receive a full range signal? I assume they do if you are happy with the sound, and the OE tweeters have a built in crossover?

[You-S4-It]

Do the side dash tweeters in the basic system receive a full range signal? I assume they do if you are happy with the sound, and the OE tweeters have a built in crossover?

I couldn't honestly tell you if the signal is already sectioned by the amp but judging by the sound, I would say not. The reason I believe not is because the OE tweeter has a built in high pass filter mounted on the backside. The Dayton does not have any filter but of course, its usable range is realistically 150-20K. I also realized why the Daytons could be slightly louder... 4 ohms on the Dayton vs the 6.2 ohms of the OE tweeter.

[Point.Blank]

Yeah my question was to the op. I just installed the Dayton 3" center last night and Vifa dual ring tweeters in the dash sides. I got the Dayton to fit but it wasn't just an easy swap I had to drill and cut a little bit to make a little more room. If you guys are familiar with the A4 aftermarket speaker photo thread in the A4 side I've been posting pictures throughout my whole build. I think if you have about 3/4in of baffle for the center it would work.

[jfo]

I couldn't honestly tell you if the signal is already sectioned by the amp but judging by the sound, I would say not. The reason I believe not is because the OE tweeter has a built in high pass filter mounted on the backside. The Dayton does not have any filter but of course, its usable range is realistically 150-20K. I also realized why the Daytons could be slightly louder... 4 ohms on the Dayton vs the 6.2 ohms of the OE tweeter.

That makes sense. You would no doubt hear it if the amp was filtering and it is a cheaper/easier OE approach to place a filter on the tweeter. If the OE tweeters will fit into the sail panel, then you could take the full range signal from the door speaker and mover them over.

[Vi112]

Could somebody recommend any other speaker than Dayton Audio RS75-4?
I found them hard to buy with shipment to my country :(

The only place they are offered is parts-express and they ship only to US and even does not accept non-US credit cards...

[You-S4-It]

Could somebody recommend any other speaker than Dayton Audio RS75-4?
I found them hard to buy with shipment to my country :(

The only place they are offered is parts-express and they ship only to US and even does not accept non-US credit cards...

If you're stuck on Dayton, did you try the other distributors (Europe and Asia/Japan)?

http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/where-to-buy/

[Vi112]

Thanks, You-S4-It!

And what about other brands, not Dayton? Any recommendations?

[You-S4-It]

And what about other brands, not Dayton? Any recommendations?

Its pretty difficult to find "full range" 3" speakers with a 4 ohm load. There are quite a few tweeters that will fit back in to that position however but for me, and thanks to the OP, I'm fine with a little more midrange up front. I can always add back in the tweeters on the sail panel should I want/need to and I am still contemplating the 2 ohm tweeter in the center channel for an 'easier' fix than the sail panels.

I believe point.blank is using Vifa tweeters in his dash panels. Check out his build on the A4 forum. He seems happy with them.

Tweeters, lots of options, "Full range" speakers, not so much.

[Point.Blank]

Its pretty difficult to find "full range" 3" speakers with a 4 ohm load. There are quite a few tweeters that will fit back in to that position however but for me, and thanks to the OP, I'm fine with a little more midrange up front. I can always add back in the tweeters on the sail panel should I want/need to and I am still contemplating the 2 ohm tweeter in the center channel for an 'easier' fix than the sail panels.

I believe point.blank is using Vifa tweeters in his dash panels. Check out his build on the A4 forum. He seems happy with them.

Tweeters, lots of options, "Full range" speakers, not so much.

Yes me and Jbradle are both using the same tweeters in our dash location (I think he switched back to his Vifas after trying out some JBL tweeters). I have the Dayton 3 as my center. When I take of the door panels I am going to test out the A-pillar location for a little bit and see if I like the tweeter location there better. As for now it is definitely an improvement. I still need to add my Datyon 6" to the doors though so the dash is way more noticeable than the stock woofer in the doors. I can hardly hear that thing at all now. But for $20 they are hard to beat. Just waiting for my SDS sound deadening products before I take off the door panels :)

[fantaxp7]

So how is your sub working out in that location?

[aryaf]

I'm wondering how the subs sound. Is it worth doing the upgrade? Or is there not enough juice to get any more bass out of them?

[typer100]

I only did the side dash tweeters so far using Dayton Audio RS75-4 (23$).
I used butt connectors instead of soldering. Way easier to do. I also used wood from a clementine box for the mounting bracket. Easy to cut and sand with a dremel.
Great mod for 50$ and 2 hours of labor.

Hints:

-OEM passenger side tweeter has an extra pin on the bottom... much tougher to take out.
-like You-S4-It said make your bracket flush with the 3" Dayton Audio RS75-4 driver because the new driver is a full inch thicker vs OEM. You'll need all the extra room to put it back in.
-sticking out of the hole, you get about an extra 3" of OEM wire. Once you've cut the OEM connector, you barely have 1.5" of wire to work with. Use butt connectors. Easier and faster. No chance to burn dash either :)