Err... I broke my instrument cluster.

[facegarden]

So... this might be bad.

I was wiring up a stereo in my '04 S4, and I pulled the fuse box to find a suitable ignition switched wire, since germans hate custom stereos.

I decided to the ignition switched line of my stereo up to the garage door opener circuit, since it is properly switched, and if I F something up, its not critical.

Well, I F'd something up.

To deal with not having an ignition switched wire when I was installing my stereo at 3am the other day, I installed a toggle switch between the stereo and the +12v constant. This worked fine. But then, when I finally ran an ignition switched wire over, I taped it to the terminal on the toggle switch for testing. Well interestingly, when I turn on the toggle switch without the key in the ignition, the gauge cluster still lights up as if I had turned the key. My toggle switch setup was running +12v back through a circuit that is only supposed to be on when the ignition is on. But not everything that the ignition switches was on. This may have caused a problem, as my gauge cluster no longer works.

Specifically, my tach and speedo don't work. The lights on the dials work and the little LCD between them works, but they don't do anything when I drive. Also, the LCD complains of Oil pressure issues or something. I'm worried I may have killed whatever computer runs these things...

I've pulled the wire from the toggle switch to avoid causing any more problems. I checked the fuses and at least the ones that made sense all seemed fine. I disconnected the battery for a bit but it didn't help. I was hoping things just needed to be reset.

So... any ideas?
-Taylor

[B6JoeS4]

Odd. I run my head unit off the homelink fuse. Unplug the battery and let the car sit for 15 min and see if that resets anything. I wonder if there are fuses on the back of the cluster

[simplesedan99]

^ x2

[facegarden]

Yeah, I tried disconnecting the battery for a while but I think the wire slipped back and touched the terminal shortly after I walked away. I'll try that again today and make sure it stays disconnected.

Also, I noticed that the stalks on the left side of my wheel don't work... blinker and cruise control. Which is lovely. I'll check those fuses too. It was a bit cramped in my garage last night so it was hard to really check too much out.

I'll try some of this and report back. Thanks guys. These cars are such a PITA....
-Taylor

[facegarden]

Err... No dice.

Disconnected the battery for 45 minutes and its behaving the same. Went down the list of fuses and checked any one that made any sense to check. I also eyeballed the tops of the rest to make sure nothing was obviously blown.

I guess there are some big fuses or relays under the dash where I was messing around? I may pull it off and check those too.

Grr, this is annoying! I don't mind not having a tach or speedo, but no blinkers is a problem.
-Taylor

[facegarden]

Okay... So some good news and some weird news.

Turns out my blinkers work just fine, I just don't get any indication or sound. This is clearly related to the instrument panel not working properly.

Also good news... my gauges work! Or... they can work. I hooked up VAG-COM and poked around. Found an instrument test that moves the dials, and it works! Sweeps them through the full range. Also toggles the LCD in the cluster and a few other things.

And my car knows what my RPM is! I also used VAG COM to monitor the RPM and it seems to work just fine. Which was expected as the car drives just fine.

So... the computer is capable of moving the gauges, and it knows the RPM... So... WHY ISN'T IT WORKING!?

Anyone have ANY ideas? Oh! And a new symptom. The front windows no longer auto-up or auto-down. But the rears do... How weird is that? Also, the instrument illumination seems to have a mind of its own. I have seen them light up, but most of the time... nothing.

I also looked at the fault codes for the engine and the radio: (I knew about the O2 sensor one)

18630 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S1: Signal too High (Rich)
P2198 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low
P1602 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16885 - Vehicle Speed Sensor: Implausible Signal
P0501 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

01176 - Key
07-10 - Signal to Low - Intermittent
00576 - Terminal 15
27-00 - Implausible Signal
01304 - Radio
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

So... with everything acting like its working, minus the actual working, I'm beginning to wonder if something just needs to be reprogrammed. Actually it was the windows that really made me think that.

If anyone has any ideas I'd really appreciate it. If not I'm beginning to think I should go to the dealer...

Thanks for looking, even if you have no idea. I sure don't...
-Taylor

[B6JoeS4]

did you reset all of the fault codes? do that and see which ones come back. some of those could be on there from before this happened. This way we cans see exactly what is wrong

[facegarden]

Good call. On the engine, this one came back:
16885 - Vehicle Speed Sensor: Implausible Signal
P0501 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

I wasn't able to check any other modules as my VAG COM cable sucks and it keeps failing.

[antidote]

It's called PAC radio replacement module for Audi, you wouldn't be having that problem if you bought the right hardware.

none the less that sucks.

[facegarden]

It's called PAC radio replacement module for Audi, you wouldn't be having that problem if you bought the right hardware.

none the less that sucks.

Trust me, I had no idea I wasn't buying "the right hardware." Every car I've ever had just took one $14 harness and some basic wiring. I had no idea how much more complicated this car is. I had to spend over $100 on the various components for the install and they were still wrong. The installer didn't know enough about my car and he gave me the wrong harness. So I had to look up the harness on Metra's website and pick one up at Frys. Only to find that it wasn't actually correct either, because its not a CAN bus interpreter.

I am a little surprised there isn't a sticky in the audio section on here warning people of this. If I had seen that it would have saved me some headaches... I tried to look up the install but honestly I had a really hard time finding the info I needed.

But anyway...

My windows work. Turns out that they just forget where they are when you disconnect the battery. You have to do a full cycle before they remember and will auto-move again.

Still no idea why my gauges aren't working. :-/
-Taylor

[drew]

Okay... So some good news and some weird news.

Turns out my blinkers work just fine, I just don't get any indication or sound. This is clearly related to the instrument panel not working properly.

Also good news... my gauges work! Or... they can work. I hooked up VAG-COM and poked around. Found an instrument test that moves the dials, and it works! Sweeps them through the full range. Also toggles the LCD in the cluster and a few other things.

And my car knows what my RPM is! I also used VAG COM to monitor the RPM and it seems to work just fine. Which was expected as the car drives just fine.

So... the computer is capable of moving the gauges, and it knows the RPM... So... WHY ISN'T IT WORKING!?

Anyone have ANY ideas? Oh! And a new symptom. The front windows no longer auto-up or auto-down. But the rears do... How weird is that? Also, the instrument illumination seems to have a mind of its own. I have seen them light up, but most of the time... nothing.

I also looked at the fault codes for the engine and the radio: (I knew about the O2 sensor one)

18630 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S1: Signal too High (Rich)
P2198 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low
P1602 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
16885 - Vehicle Speed Sensor: Implausible Signal
P0501 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

01176 - Key
07-10 - Signal to Low - Intermittent
00576 - Terminal 15
27-00 - Implausible Signal
01304 - Radio
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

So... with everything acting like its working, minus the actual working, I'm beginning to wonder if something just needs to be reprogrammed. Actually it was the windows that really made me think that.

If anyone has any ideas I'd really appreciate it. If not I'm beginning to think I should go to the dealer...

Thanks for looking, even if you have no idea. I sure don't...
-Taylor

I wonder if there is a way to set it to do that on start up? Doubt it but that would be pretty neat.

[facegarden]

I wonder if there is a way to set it to do that on start up? Doubt it but that would be pretty neat.

Yeah I was thinking that too. You could probably build a module that plugged in and sent that command at startup. But the way the test works is interesting... it seems like there is a command to start the test, and then it a command to sequence through each instrument test. So you may have to see them all to do it.

[facegarden]

Oh, and I took out my instrument cluster and checked out the PCB. Everything seems fine, no blown ICs or anything.

I still feel like the problem is a damaged computer somewhere.

Oh! And I just remembered - before I pulled out the cluster, I drove around with VCDS lite running and found that although it sees my RPM, it does not see my vehicle speed. It should, right?

[ozo101]

thank god i hate crappy custom aftermarket stereos more than the germans, I will never have to go thru this, good luck!

[facegarden]

thank god i hate crappy custom aftermarket stereos more than the germans, I will never have to go thru this, good luck!

Actually I got a nice Kenwood Excelon unit that looks great and is excellent quality.

The only reason why I had any problems was because I messed up some wiring... Not sure why you would think a "crappy aftermarket stereo" has anything to do with this.

[ozo101]

well since i hate any aftrmarket stereo I wont be swaping mine and breaking my cluster in the process.

[facegarden]

So I'm still slowly trying to sort this out (but I've been busy). Got a friend with a real vag com cable that I will try to meet up with this weekend.

That said, someone was asking about enabling the instrument test at startup. Well I stumbled across this thread: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...woofer+install
And supposedly you can.

"Enabling Gauge Test/Needle Sweep
This will sweep the gauge needles through their full range automatically when you start the engine.

[Select]
[17 - Instruments]
[Coding - 07]
[Long Coding Helper]
Click on each of the Byte numbers in step 3) and you'll see the selectable options below.
Check the box for "Gauge Test/Needle Sweep active"
[Do It!]"


So thought I'd share that.

[mightemouce]

Where you able to fix this issue? I am having the exact same problem with my car right now

[facegarden]

Yes! I'd been meaning to respond here, in case someone else had this problem, since the solution was tough to find. But then I never got around to posting...

Anyway, I solved it ultimately with a quick VAG-COM recoding!

I found this thread:
http://audiforum.us/threads/problem-...-install.5065/

Where the guy described the problem, and though it wasn't perfectly clear, I figured it out.

He says

Sat in the car looking around with my vagcom (4.01 with a non-rosstsch cable)
I went into the adaption channels of the instrumet cluster and found some really strange values.

He said he was able to recode and fix the speedo, but I didn't get quite what values he meant, and I didn't know what the values were supposed to look like, so I didn't know which ones were "strange". I tried the command to reset all parameters but it seemed to have no effect.

Later, he describes the rest of his coding:

instrument cluster (17)

Channel 060: CAN-Databus Powertrain (Installation List)
* +00001 = Engine (Standard)
* +00002 = Automatic Transmission (Optional)
* +00004 = Brake (Standard)
* +00016 = Airbag (Standard)
* +01024 = Instrument Cluster (Standard) 
coded 1045

Channel 061: CAN-Databus Comfort (Installation List)
* +00001 = Central Electronics (Standard)
* +00002 = Comfort System (Standard)
* +00064 = Trailer (Optional)
* +00128 = Convertible Top (Optional)
* +00256 = Instrument Cluster (Standard)
* +00512 = Tire Pressure Control (Optional)
* +01024 = Steering Column Electronics (Standard)
* +02048 = Climate Control (Standard)
* +32768 = Auxiliary Heating (Optional) 
coded 3331


Channel 062: CAN-Databus Infotainment (Installation List)
* +00001 = Radio (Optional)
* +00002 = Telephone (Optional)
* +00004 = Navigation (Optional)
* +00008 = Telematics (Optional)
* +00016 = Intrument Cluster (Standard - only coded with 2nd Component) 
coded 23

Well BAM, that's when I noticed my values were weird!

My coding values for 060, 061, and 062 were all ZERO. That's not even a valid entry! Since those values have to do with the CAN bus, I thought they could be the problem, so I just set my values to what he had, to see what would happen.

I coded it all up, and everything came to life! (I may have had to turn off the key and turn it back on... don't think I did but I don't remember).

So my guess is that basically the weird electrical shorting I did reset some values on a memory chip in the cluster somehow, and it caused the processor to just read back zero. After the recoding, everything works and its been working great for probably a month now! Interestingly, you cannot recode them back to zero, it says its an invalid number. Makes sense. It won't set those values bad on purpose, but I basically brute forced them to zero electrically.

Also note it may put your car in "transport mode". Thats the mode they put your car in when it first ships. It disables some of the electronics like the remote keys I think, and it reduces the amount of time the internal dome lights stay on for. That's all to prevent a dead battery during transportation from the factory to the dealer. Anyway, I think you can turn it off by coding, but it should also turn off after you drive another 100 or 150 miles or something like that, so I didn't mess with it.

I had actually given up and taken my car to a mechanic right before I fixed it. He had no idea what was wrong, and when he said I probably needed a $1200 instrument cluster, I got my googling into high gear and finally found that thread! Man was I excited when it all came to life!

So anyway, I hope that's all the problem was for you, it sure was for me!

Good luck,
-Taylor

[dmaxben]

That said, someone was asking about enabling the instrument test at startup. Well I stumbled across this thread: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...woofer+install
And supposedly you can.

"Enabling Gauge Test/Needle Sweep
This will sweep the gauge needles through their full range automatically when you start the engine.

[Select]
[17 - Instruments]
[Coding - 07]
[Long Coding Helper]
Click on each of the Byte numbers in step 3) and you'll see the selectable options below.
Check the box for "Gauge Test/Needle Sweep active"
[Do It!]"


So thought I'd share that.

that only works on the B8's.... Doesnt apply to B6/B7

[facegarden]

that only works on the B8's.... Doesnt apply to B6/B7

Yeah, I noticed that when I tried it. I should have mentioned that here, heh.

[Homer]

Yeah I was thinking that too. You could probably build a module that plugged in and sent that command at startup. But the way the test works is interesting... it seems like there is a command to start the test, and then it a command to sequence through each instrument test. So you may have to see them all to do it.

Just for reference.

[mightemouce]

Thanks for the reply I ended up figuring it out later in the night after looking through the adaption channels and noticed they were set to zero... After hours of tracing wires VAG came to the rescue.