The Great Maestro 7 Tuning Suite Thread

[Dan[FN]6262]

Just wait a couple years until the Maestro community has a really good base community like megasquirt. And there are more than a few people that really know what they're doing.

[dougyfresh]

I agree, however, I think common sense should stop you from making drastic changes if you don't know what you are doing, hehe..

When it comes to reality and the general public I have learned that common sense does not apply (on an average basis).

[Dan[FN]6262]

When it comes to reality and the general public I have learned that common sense does not apply (on an average basis).

X2

[bananas]

When it comes to reality and the general public I have learned that common sense does not apply (on an average basis).

Wow that was a really nice way of saying my own personal mantra: "people are stupid"
:)

[drjonez]

Wow that was a really nice way of saying my own personal mantra: "people are stupid"
:)

Isn't that the truth....

Good to see this going more mainstream. Yes, as the masses begin to adopt there will be a plethora of stupid questions and "why did my motor blows up when i sets boost targets to lots"....but that's expected. Let them blow their crap up, perhaps they'll learn something in the process.

That said, Maestro is in my future.

[nein-reis]

When it comes to reality and the general public I have learned that common sense does not apply (on an average basis).

LOL!!! This is true, ask anyone who has ever worked a day in retail or customer service.... most people, are dumb.

[dougyfresh]

Question: Can you recalibrate the fuel consumption on the DIS? Instantaneous MPG and average MPG?

[MmmBoost]

Question: Can you recalibrate the fuel consumption on the DIS? Instantaneous MPG and average MPG?

You can change the Consumption Gauge Constant which is what is used for the DIS

[7speed]

Damnit, everytime I flash my car my fuel guage goes to E. Also I set my rev limiter to 8500, but I cuts me off at like 7400. Is the tach too slow ?

[Dan[FN]6262]

Damnit, everytime I flash my car my fuel guage goes to E. Also I set my rev limiter to 8500, but I cuts me off at like 7400. Is the tach too slow ?

In first gear I always get cut off at what looks like 6.5k, but every other gear is 7.5k

idk what the deal is.

[EBG 18T]

Glad chris pointed me over to this thread. My cable just came in and it time for the fun to begin.

[613B6]

Damnit, everytime I flash my car my fuel guage goes to E. Also I set my rev limiter to 8500, but I cuts me off at like 7400. Is the tach too slow ?

This happen to me a few times only when my fuel is really low, not sure why. As for the rev limit, try rev limiter 2 the fist one for me didn't work at all but the second did. I'd love to why there are two of them anyways

[Hansi]

This happen to me a few times only when my fuel is really low, not sure why. As for the rev limit, try rev limiter 2 the fist one for me didn't work at all but the second did. I'd love to why there are two of them anyways

Maybe it's soft and hard cut? I don't know, just a thought..

http://passionford.com/forum/general...v-limiter.html

[Sales@RAI]

Hey so I have too much fuel at partial throttle. Is there a specific map for that? I've been just doing the main fuel correction map

[MmmBoost]

Hey so I have too much fuel at partial throttle. Is there a specific map for that? I've been just doing the main fuel correction map

Depending on what load and RPM you're at it could be Voltage Compensation table or your Injector Constant........or both. If you're running a MAF you may also need to adjust your Flowmeter Correction table.

Adjusting the voltage compensation table has the most noticable effect on low pulsewidth areas ie. idle and low load. Injector Constant effects the whole RPM and Load range.

What injectors are you running? What fuel pressure? What size engine?

[Sales@RAI]

Depending on what load and RPM you're at it could be Voltage Compensation table or your Injector Constant........or both. If you're running a MAF you may also need to adjust your Flowmeter Correction table.

Adjusting the voltage compensation table has the most noticable effect on low pulsewidth areas ie. idle and low load. Injector Constant effects the whole RPM and Load range.

What injectors are you running? What fuel pressure? What size engine?

830cc Lucas
4 bar rising rate FPR
2008cc

My injector constant is high, like .062X I kept upping it until it idled nicely. It's slightly rough but not bad for the cams I have. Would I add or decrease voltage?

[MmmBoost]

830cc Lucas
4 bar rising rate FPR
2008cc

My injector constant is high, like .062X I kept upping it until it idled nicely. It's slightly rough but not bad for the cams I have. Would I add or decrease voltage?

.062 is FAR too high for 830cc's on a 4bar. I'm using .060XXX with 550's on a 4bar. Your Injector Constant should be approximately .04444396

You should not be using IC to tune idle. Battery Voltage Compensation should be used. While injector constant does still affect idle, it's effect can be seen at higher load situations with longer pulsewidths because it is used as a multiplicative value rather than an additive value like the Latency values of the Battery Voltage Compensation table.


I don't know what your response curve should look like with the Lucas injectors, but in order to lean out idle...you will need to lower this table. The units of this table are in (ms) so be careful not to adjust this table too much at one time. To lean out idle, you will need to decrease this table.

[Sales@RAI]

.062 is FAR too high for 830cc's on a 4bar. I'm using .060XXX with 550's on a 4bar. Your Injector Constant should be approximately .04444396

You should not be using IC to tune idle. Battery Voltage Compensation should be used. I don't know what your response curve should look like with the Lucas injectors, but in order to lean out idle...you will need to lower this table. The units of this table are in (ms) so be careful not to adjust this table too much at one time. To lean out idle, you will need to decrease this table.

you got it man. So put the IC to .04444396 and start bumping the voltage table down slowly?

[MmmBoost]

you got it man. So put the IC to .04444396 and start bumping the voltage table down slowly?

Sounds good. As I explained to someone else that was asking some questions through PM...... you must get the IC set correct FIRST because this is the main value used to calculate required pulsewidth at ALL points on the map based on load. It is VERY VERY important to get this right otherwise you will have to compensate a lot more in many other maps.

I told him this, "Very light throttle and low loads has a LOT to do with Battery Voltage Compensation. You could have the right IC but the completely wrong BVC values and your idle and super light loads will be most effected. You need to lower you BVC table values a lot. Infact I would suggest dropping them by .1 or .2 to start with." He is running 1000cc's on a 3bar setup on a 2008cc.

I would also recommend turning the boost down until you get your fueling sorted out.

Set the IC to what it should be (this is a calculated value......not a blind guess, although it still may need some very fine tuning) then start lowering the BVC table. Like i mentioned, I have no idea what the Lucas response curve should look like, so I can't offer much assistance on what your initial curve should look like.....but you can check the slow of the line to make sure you have the right relationship between Voltage and Latency.

To check that the slope is correct......with a warmed up car, sit at idle for and turn absolutely everything off while logging. Then turn EVERYTHING on you can......heated seats on full, high beams, rear window defrost.....basically anything you can turn on to put more electrical draw on the system and see how this affects your corrections. If the car gets richer, you know you need to lower the value at that voltage. If the car gets leaner....you must add time. So add or subtract time at the closest Voltage value on the table for the recorded voltage at that point. Once you get the right slope on the line......then go back to removing (ms) from all values to lower the whole curve equally. Don't scale by %

[gotboost]

what should the injector constant be for the seimens 630cc injectors, and the battery voltage compensation is used to help with a rough idle? my idle is rough only when the car is up to full operating temperature.

[EBG 18T]

Chris - you mention you are using the ic of 0.060xxx. Which 550cc injectors are you using? I have the genesis 550cc and I need to scale the 630 file down for the 550 injectors.

[MmmBoost]

what should the injector constant be for the seimens 630cc injectors, and the battery voltage compensation is used to help with a rough idle? my idle is rough only when the car is up to full operating temperature.

Battery Voltage Compensation must be tuned to compensate for how quickly the injectors react based on the voltage supplied to them. More voltage = faster response. Lowering this table will help remove time from the calculation injection pulsewidth......and because PW is so low at idle it will have the most noticeable effect here.


look at it this way.....

consider this..... At 14V say you need to add 3 slashes to compensate for the injector latency at 14V ///, and at idle you need ##### for a require PW at idle around 21% load.

so your PW would look like this:

///#####

say you turn on the defroster and the heated seats and your idle voltage now drops to 13V. suddenly......you now need to add 2 more // to compensate for the slower response.......but the required ACTUAL fuel pulse remains the same, your new PW looks like this

/////#####

Now consider the difference BVC makes at WOT. Situation is as follows..... 14V and required pulsewidth 5x more than idle.

///#########################

Now you see how much smaller of an effect BVC has on higher load/higher RPM situations. it accounts for a MUCH smaller % in the actual overall calculated PW.

Chris - you mention you are using the IC of 0.060xxx. Which 550cc injectors are you using? I have the genesis 55pcc and I need to scale the 630 file down for the 550 injectors.

I'm now down to a 0.060287 IC, but the calculated value I have was .0601433314. I have just come across some information today that may upset how MANY people are going about "correcting" fuel. I will keep posted, I need to do more reading to be sure.

for BVC on the Genesis 550's I recommend using any of the Bosch Voltage Compensation default tables from the Injector Wizard. Then lower the whole table by about .1 ms to start.

[gotboost]

So i just opened my maestro and my injector constant is at 0.047595, this is how the base file came!

[MmmBoost]

So i just opened my maestro and my injector constant is at 0.047595, this is how the base file came!

Trust that if you like. I certainly don't. From all the reading I've done I have good reason to believe different.

[gotboost]

I will change it to the one you said, I also opened the injector wizard and hit the seimens 630 button and that changed my BCV, from the ones I had previous. do you remember what your BCV were when you had your 630's

[MmmBoost]

I will change it to the one you said, I also opened the injector wizard and hit the seimens 630 button and that changed my BCV, from the ones I had previous. do you remember what your BCV were when you had your 630's

Back onto the subject of .047595.....how awesome was your fueling without any additional corrections on the 630? Mine was GARBAGE. I decided to find my own information from people that actually gave explanations as to how this stuff all works.

I jumped ship on the 630s at about the same time I started finding all this new information....so my values are not going to be helpful to you.

[gotboost]

The fueling was decent. Some of the o2 corrections would get up to 20% though.out of the box. Only problem pretty much has been the rough idle. So I'll try to mess with the BCV and see if I can get it better. Will raising the injector constant you gave me make the car run richer?

[EBG 18T]

I'm now down to a 0.060287 IC, but the calculated value I have was .0601433314. I have just come across some information today that may upset how MANY people are going about "correcting" fuel. I will keep posted, I need to do more reading to be sure.

for BVC on the Genesis 550's I recommend using any of the Bosch Voltage Compensation default tables from the Injector Wizard. Then lower the whole table by about .1 ms to start.

Thanks chris. I will start there.

[MmmBoost]

The fueling was decent. Some of the o2 corrections would get up to 20% though.out of the box. Only problem pretty much has been the rough idle. So I'll try to mess with the BCV and see if I can get it better. Will raising the injector constant you gave me make the car run richer?

Considering the base file is a BASE FILE, I would have expected that idle should have been sorted out properly to start with. This is one of the reasons I trust the values in the "base file" less and less as I dig further and further into ME7.5 and how it works.

[jmw241]

Injector constant for the 630cc on a 1.8T (1781cc) should be 0.051721223

- Ok, wow.

I'v been useing .43-.44 and have had good results thus far, at least in my eyes. Put close to 5k on the car with maestro and she is FAST for a ko3, I'm taking modded b5 ko4d a4's in well running condition......so that's my proof that shes running well lol. Though there is much to be desiered from a DD standpoint that I need to work on.

This could explainy why I run rich at idel, lower constant, lower pulse width, 630's can't do the low PW's like the 550s can.
Now mind you im using thestock b6 fueling system.

[613B6]

God I feel for you tring to tune the pid table and duty with that snappy turbo. I found my gtrs took some trial and error...more error before I got the hang of it.

[jmw241]

God I feel for you tring to tune the pid table and duty with that snappy turbo. I found my gtrs took some trial and error...more error before I got the hang of it.

It's not bad with the ER COMP fmic. It's so big that the ko3 comes in like a gtrs, just not as much power

[MmmBoost]

Right out of the Bosch ME7 documentation...... for those of you that don't know, KRKTE A.K.A. Injector Constant




n-Heptane = 0.684g/cc

630cc/min x 0.684g/cc = 430.92g/min <===== mass flow of injectors (this needs to be calculated for operating pressure so this way is NOT correct for the B6....see below for correct way.)

Instead it should be: 630 x sqrt(58/43.5) = 727.5cc/min <======calculating flow for at operating pressure vs. rated pressure

727.5 x 0.684 = 497.58 g/min

actual engine displacement = 1781 cc = 1.781 L.
number of cylinders = 4

KRKTE = 50.2624*(1.781/4)/497.58 = 0.044976

EDIT: I have found out that Qstat at system operating pressure must be used in this calculation. Qstat is normally given at injectors tested at 3-bar. The AMB returnless system is 4 bar.

[SleeperAvant]

I tried using a lower injector constant on my 630cc 1.8T and the car would not start. I flashed back to original file I used with the injector constant of .43-.44 and it started up no problem.

[613B6]

Its weird that even though alot of us have the 630 sei injector we all have different IC. I started at .51 and increased about 12% to get my o2 correction with +/-7% and reduced my voltage comp per tapps email (car was switching to open loop at low load) and my car idles perfect and drives like stock in all temps.

[MmmBoost]

I tried using a lower injector constant on my 630cc 1.8T and the car would not start. I flashed back to original file I used with the injector constant of .43-.44 and it started up no problem.

.051 is larger than .044. Smaller number = less fuel, so I'm not surprised that the car didn't start.

Its weird that even though alot of us have the 630 sei injector we all have different IC. I started at .51 and increased about 12% to get my o2 correction with +/-7% and reduced my voltage comp per tapps email (car was switching to open loop at low load) and my car idles perfect and drives like stock in all temps.

This could be due to small inconsistencies between injectors.

[gotboost]

So I used the BAttery compensation voltages hat the injector wizard gave me. Instead if the ones that I had before. Now the car idles a million times better.

[MmmBoost]

So I used the BAttery compensation voltages hat the injector wizard gave me. Instead if the ones that I had before. Now the car idles a million times better.

Genesis 550s + the right Voltage Compensation = WIN. My idle is nearly perfect. O2 correction at idle is +/-4. LTFT at idle is 0

[SleeperAvant]

LTFT?

[MmmBoost]

Long Term Fuel Trim. The first reading in Block 032 is idle. second is part throttle