AE Performance FMIC...what's the deal?

[NickZag]

Anyone had any issue's with the engine temp running a FMIC? The AE unit takes up almost the entire surface area of the radiator

[k9lovr]

Not like the awe one though....do you have an AE one?

[MiracleWhips]

AWE here, no engine temp issues.

[mattlqx]

It's all about surface area and unfortunately we don't have much room for depth so length and width are the only variables.

'MrPerfect' ....what brand/size core did you end up using? Can you share some details of the custom fitment around the crash-bar? Did you stop at the endtank inlet/outlet (like AWE) or did you replace piping from the turbo and to the TB? Let's see some pics :)

Way late on this but...

Almost double the size, less than .43PSI pressure drop, and no modification of the bumper cover. This picture isn't of my car, but it's the same deal. Jon at Goodspeed jigged this up and is able to re-fabricate it on demand.

[rippin'av]

Way late on this but...

Almost double the size, less than .43PSI pressure drop, and no modification of the bumper cover. This picture isn't of my car, but it's the same deal. Jon at Goodspeed jigged this up and is able to re-fabricate it on demand.

Cool. Good to know that somebody is stepping up and giving the B8 some love.

How do you like it so far? Do you see significant power gains over stock?

What did it cost you, if you don't mind?

I'd really be interested in hearing about any other options besides AWE (which I'm sure is top quality) but friendly competition is always a good thing IMO...

[k9lovr]

What does GS charge for something like that?

[Kevins350z]

where is godspeed located? is it in the bay area? i got my deposit down for an awe fmic, but can cancel it any time. how much does it cost btw?

[cory_can]

http://www.goodspeedperformance.com. ??? ....there is a Jon under the contacts.

[mattlqx]

The difference is huge in smoothness to me. We all know how these things pull stock... you get a burst of torque in the low rev range that falls off pretty steeply past 5k. The big intercooler helps tremendously with sustaining the power for longer. Granted, I also got a 3" exhaust and HFC done at the same time but they did an install of the S3 turbo with HFC on another car and the charge temps robbed that car of a lot of power in the end and my car wasn't that far off of it as far as the dyno sheets go. We did graphs with charge temps that I don't have, that were amazingly different. Runs before the FMIC, you'd see charge temps do a huge climb towards the end of the run. After the FMIC, there was a slight slope up but it was nothing comparatively.

Speaking of dyno, here's the sheet from my car that's posted on the blog. It's a little hard to read due to the funky scaling and I wish he would've done it in crank mode to measure the DT loss but those are the wheel numbers. For the record, it's APR Stage II+, 034 HFC and Goodspeed's FMIC and full 3" dual outlet exhaust.

Full disclosure also, I do some website work for them and they're friends of mine. But the topic is FMIC's so I'm sharing about what's on my car. We did the work as an exchange deal so I'm not sure what the cost of everything is. If you're interested call him up and I'm sure he'd love to talk to you about it. Cory got the website right. They're located in Scottsdale, AZ where I recently relocated from.

Overall, I'm super happy with the work. It pulls quite nicely for still having the stock turbo on it. Gobs and gobs of torque. I think these upgrades are the way to go for anybody looking to get more power out of their ride without dropping thousands on a single component.

[k9lovr]

Wanted to follow up on what Mr. Perfect posted. I contacted Jon at Goodspeed for more information on their FMIC. The following is what he told me via email:

The unit is a direct fit with no bumper modification and is designed to keep the core low, as to not cover the majority of the radiator causing poor air flow over the radiator and A/C condenser. The kit will include all hardware brackets and the intercooler along with a full set of instructions that has not been finished yet as all the units sold so far have been installed in house. Testing has shown a very significant drop in intake temps over the OEM as well as the currently available units on the market, and its shape keeps a much more even cooling effect than a tall thin design which when measured is not significantly larger than the OEM. Our core measures 616 sq inches and the oem is 357.5 sq inches, giving almost double the capacity yet looks very OEM through the front grill. The pricing is much less than what is currently available as well retailing at only 789.00.

With that being said, I inquired if they (Goodspeed) would be willing to give those of us who are interested a discount if we could put together a group buy, to which he responded yes. He was wondering how many people, and how soon folks would want the product? If you are interested please feel free to pm me and hopefully we can put something together sooner rather than later.

[bxr]

I would be interested in a group buy.

[A5MD]

I"m in but I would like to find more info on this

[B8_RDC]

I would be interested in a group buy.

Ditto

[k9lovr]

If you let me know (via pm if you like) what you are looking for in terms of info, I can ask jon via email.

[dracolnyte]

im interested but do you know how many sq inches is the awe one?

[cory_can]

If you let me know (via pm if you like) what you are looking for in terms of info, I can ask jon via email.

if possible I would love to see more pics of the core/end-tanks/included piping off of the car.....can you see if Goodspeed has any additional pics of the product?

...and possibly a little more info on how it's installed to the car.....drill through crash-bar like AWE?

[Alex/AWE]

im interested but do you know how many sq inches is the awe one?

It looks like Jon might have unintentionally screwed up his units in that email. No biggie, we're all human and it happens. He probably meant 616 cubic inches of volume not square inches.

Our intercooler's frontal area is 306 square inches. Our total volume is 686 cubic inches but this measurement doesn't mean much alone since the core and fin design impact the effective volume a lot.

[k9lovr]

if possible I would love to see more pics of the core/end-tanks/included piping off of the car.....can you see if Goodspeed has any additional pics of the product?

...and possibly a little more info on how it's installed to the car.....drill through crash-bar like AWE?

Will do...

[dracolnyte]

It looks like Jon might have unintentionally screwed up his units in that email. No biggie, we're all human and it happens. He probably meant 616 cubic inches of volume not square inches.

Our intercooler's frontal area is 306 square inches. Our total volume is 686 cubic inches but this measurement doesn't mean much alone since the core and fin design impact the effective volume a lot.

thats a win for AWE, but can we do a group buy for AWE intercooler instead? lol

[Alex/AWE]

thats a win for AWE, but can we do a group buy for AWE intercooler instead? lol

We don't normally do Group Buys direct. We have a very expansive worldwide network of dealers who carry our product. We support them as much as we can. Doing a Group Buy cuts them out of the equation, something we don't like to do.

If you are really interested in a Group Buy, I'd suggest contact one of our Dealers and see if they would be willing to set it up for you.

[A5MD]

We don't normally do Group Buys direct. We have a very expansive worldwide network of dealers who carry our product. We support them as much as we can. Doing a Group Buy cuts them out of the equation, something we don't like to do.

If you are really interested in a Group Buy, I'd suggest contact one of our Dealers and see if they would be willing to set it up for you.

Since no group buy, when is the next "big event/show" so it can be on sale??

[k9lovr]

I have an email into Jon to inquire about more pictures as well as installation guidence in terms of crashbar drilling etc. Does anyone else have questions I need to ask?

[Kevins350z]

you just missed out man. i got one for $899 + shipping during xmas week.

[cory_can]

I have an email into Jon to inquire about more pictures as well as installation guidence in terms of crashbar drilling etc. Does anyone else have questions I need to ask?

Maybe get a sense of his expected GB pricing.....how many numbers he needs to hit a certain price etc.
The pics are mostly to see design elements so if he could go into more details describing the end-tank design, type of core (bar/plate,fin/tube), specs on flow, inlet/outlet size etc. Pressure drop is the only spec. we have right now....since the design is short/fat it should flow good and have a reasonable pressure drop but it's also slightly wide so it might not be as efficient at cooling as the volume suggests. Either way....more details are better.

[babadudu]

interested, but would it fit if I have ADS?

I wanted to get AWE ones but from what I gathered it doens't fit car with ADS with LHD?

[Jacon]

Our intercooler's frontal area is 306 square inches. Our total volume is 686 cubic inches but this measurement doesn't mean much alone since the core and fin design impact the effective volume a lot.

This statement is 100% true when designing an air-to-air heat exchanger. The fin length/density can make up for surface area...

A real test is to compare the T_in vs T_out and compare the T_delta between a few intercoolers.

[Alex/AWE]

interested, but would it fit if I have ADS?

I wanted to get AWE ones but from what I gathered it doens't fit car with ADS with LHD?

We're actually looking to address that. If anyone reading this is local and interested in discounted pricing on FMIC fitting, please send me a PM.

The car needs be either an A4 or A5 2.0T and have Drive Select.

This statement is 100% true when designing an air-to-air heat exchanger. The fin length/density can make up for surface area...

A real test is to compare the T_in vs T_out and compare the T_delta between a few intercoolers.

The efficiency graph on our B7 FMIC page takes all those factors into account. Effectiveness at a given flow or hp is probably a better comparison than just delta T because the latter is influenced heavily by ambient conditions.

Delta T in freezing conditions will be higher than in hot conditions while effectiveness will measure about the same.



Note: The data on the graph above is from the B7. Our B8 FMIC will have the same efficiency as our B7 unit, which is why I posted it here.

[B8_Jim]

Note: The data on the graph above is from the B7. Our B8 FMIC will have the same efficiency as our B7 unit, which is why I posted it here.

Does the B8 stock intercooler have the same efficiency curve as the B7?

[Alex/AWE]

Does the B8 stock intercooler have the same efficiency curve as the B7?

Unfortunately I don't have an efficiency curve for the factory B8 intercooler.

[k9lovr]

All here is what I got from Jon at Goodspeed:

Any way i will try to answer what i can from
this email, if you like you can tell people to contact me direct as
well i know it can be a hassle being the in between guy on the forums
some times. As for the questions, its just a simple cast end tank
nothing special and it is bar and plate core. As for CFM flow rates i
don't have that data and while the data for the core itself i may be
able to get from the manufacture that will be of no use due to end
tank and inlet design will change that. Inlet is of factory size
(2.25) as to make this a direct bolt on. As for modification to the
car only 2 small pilot holes in the back of the bumper beam will have
to be made and a proper size drill bit can be supplied. And to your
question on size, yes i did mean cubic not square, my mistake i
apologize.
I will try to find some more detailed photos for you this weekend

Jon stated that he is willing to answer questions people can email him direct. If you would like me to send them just let me know. Hopefully this answers some questions.

[Jacon]

The efficiency graph on our B7 FMIC page takes all those factors into account. Effectiveness at a given flow or hp is probably a better comparison than just delta T because the latter is influenced heavily by ambient conditions.

Delta T in freezing conditions will be higher than in hot conditions while effectiveness will measure about the same.

that's a fairly nice efficiency curve!

[NickZag]

I'm interested if we find a vender for a group buy

[ItsDubC]

I would love to see how the Goodspeed and AE units compare to AWE's. Jon touched on the concern I've always had w/ the AWE unit, which is proper airflow to the A/C condenser and radiator. I have no problem trading a few ponies and IAT levels for a shorter aftermarket unit that gives me peace of mind that the efficiency of my AC and radiator aren't affected in the long-run.

[hoppy6698]

I would love to see how the Goodspeed and AE units compare to AWE's. Jon touched on the concern I've always had w/ the AWE unit, which is proper airflow to the A/C condenser and radiator. I have no problem trading a few ponies and IAT levels for a shorter aftermarket unit that gives me peace of mind that the efficiency of my AC and radiator aren't affected in the long-run.

Especially for those of us in warmer climates :)

[Alex/AWE]

I would love to see how the Goodspeed and AE units compare to AWE's. Jon touched on the concern I've always had w/ the AWE unit, which is proper airflow to the A/C condenser and radiator. I have no problem trading a few ponies and IAT levels for a shorter aftermarket unit that gives me peace of mind that the efficiency of my AC and radiator aren't affected in the long-run.

Especially for those of us in warmer climates :)

You wont have any issues with the factory cooling system and our FMIC.

During development we did a great deal of testing to make sure our large face core didn't have a negative impact on any aspect of the car, including the factory cooling system.

We tested it on the street and on the track in 100+ degree heat with no issues.

Also, this core/end tank combination is similar to our B7 FMIC which has been on the market for 3+ years with no issues.

[NickZag]

You wont have any issues with the factory cooling system and our FMIC.

During development we did a great deal of testing to make sure our large face core didn't have a negative impact on any aspect of the car, including the factory cooling system.

We tested it on the street and on the track in 100+ degree heat with no issues.

Also, this core/end tank combination is similar to our B7 FMIC which has been on the market for 3+ years with no issues.

It seems like you guys have an amazing product that no other vender wants to try to compete with, but I'm curious as to why you guys have B7 tests posted but nothing for the B8? Your current customers seem to really like they're FMIC, but a lot of us are still worried about heat issues. I think you would put a lot of minds at ease and probably sell a lot more of these if you had some B8 test #'s posted.

[ItsDubC]

Alex,

I appreciate the words of comfort. I am well-aware that there are many ppl running these units and that you use a low enough fin density in your core to allow air to pass through to the AC condenser and radiator, but surely you can understand my concern about long-term effects being that I am in a climate that is much warmer (and humid), as hoppy alluded to.

So far your product is standing the test of time, which I am happy to see on the B8 platform and am encouraged about. Despite that, I have reservations about buying a product that is the sole offering on the market when I know that there are design factors which other tuning companies in the past have handled differently from AWE for various reasons.

One of these factors is the effect on the AC condenser and radiator behind the FMIC. IMHO, an FMIC that doesn't block these components would seem to epitomize a safer approach to modding, which gives me that warm fuzzy feeling. That being said, I hope to put other B8 FMIC offerings under the same degree of scrutiny as I have put yours under.

I've been trying to locate any 3rd-party accounts of testing done on the AWE FMIC (either on the B7 or B8 platform) in a hot & humid climate such as Houston's to reveal any effect on coolant temp & AC efficiency in order to verify your safety claims. I know you and the rest of the AWE folks must feel like a broken record reiterating the fact that your FMIC has no adverse effects on the rest of the car (as has been done numerous times both here and in the B7 forum), but please don't take it personal when I say that I'm looking for 3rd-party verification. The issue is impartiality.

Lastly, could you tell us more about how you go about street testing? Track testing would seem to put the most strain on the car and be most revealing about the efficiency of the FMIC, but I assume you don't run the AC while track testing to know how it affects the AC system under heavy strain, correct? Perhaps we should put this in another thread.

[John4378]

Speaking of dyno, here's the sheet from my car that's posted on the blog. It's a little hard to read due to the funky scaling and I wish he would've done it in crank mode to measure the DT loss but those are the wheel numbers. For the record, it's APR Stage II+, 034 HFC and Goodspeed's FMIC and full 3" dual outlet exhaust.

What am I missing here? Your Stage 2+ car is only making 185 awhp....that doesn't seem right to me.

[k9lovr]

Seriously though is there anyone who is interested in the Goodspeed FMIC as a group buy. If not I will no longer pursue it with Jon.

[B8_Jim]

What am I missing here? Your Stage 2+ car is only making 185 awhp....that doesn't seem right to me.

120F intake temp perhaps? Also a little strange that HP peaked at 4000 RPM and then dropped 30 ... isn't it? I would have expected peak to be about 5k, or at least flat from 4-5...