review #2: Okada vs. rev D vs. rev R coilpacks; Bosch FR6DTC vs. NGK 5238 spark plugs

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My original review is discussed here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...on-D-coilpacks

Dyno comparison #1 is here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...38-spark-plugs

My friend Jason's car was at the shop (August 11, 2010) and I asked him if I could dyno his car as he has a 2871 setup that he daily drives.

So I did a back to back test with OEM rev. R, rev. D coilpacks and the Okada Plasma coilpacks

Then we did a two more pulls to compare the Bosch FR6DTC 2 prong plugs vs a new set of NGK 5238 single prong temperature 9 plug to see if there is any effect running a colder plug or for that matter a new spark plug vs. a 5 month old one.

The time between pulls is the amount of time required to swap out the coilpacks or the spark plugs.

All pulls were done at 18psi as that is what his manual boost controller was set at and 94 octane gas. His car is not running meth.

Picture of his MBC



Once again all I wanted to know if is these Plasma coilpacks would provide any gains by just swapping them in WITHOUT any tuning to take advantage of the extra spark.

You can make your own conclusions based on the information posted below, but if you are interested in buying a set of these Plasma coilpacks you can email me at any time.

stock rev R coilpacks installed



this is the video of the logger for the OEM rev R coilpack pull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJqcpxtUv7k

dyno plot (solid red line) with output figure



Brand new set of OEM rev D coilpacks





this is the video of the logger for the OEM rev D coilpack pulls

if you watch the first video you will hear 'brrrruuuuupttt' sound and that is the car misfiring from the coilpacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prLeujfOX5Q

we did a second pull to see if the misfiring was going to happen again. it did and this is exactly the same issue I had with the set of coilpacks when I had. so no issues with the rev. R coilpack but massive misfiring with the rev. D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM7d4QDqCzo

dyno plot (solid green line) with output figure




Okada coilpacks installed (borrowed from reapersA4)




this is the video of the logger for the Okada plasma coilpacks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeZpVj2EaW8

dyno plot (solid blue line) with output figure



then we swapped out the Bosch FR6DTC 2 prong plugs and replace them with these new NGK temperature 9 plugs




this is the video of the logger for the Okada plasma coilpacks & NGK plugs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUkVuq8iSso

dyno plot (violet line = Okada coilpacks, NGK plugs)



then we swapped back in the old rev. R coilpacks

this is the video of the logger for the OEM rev R coilpacks & NGK plugs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh8cJe2s2_0

dyno plot (light blue line = rev. R coilpacks, NGK plugs)



so summary of the plot above:

red = OEM rev R coilpacks with Bosch plugs
green = OEM rev D coilpacks with Bosch plugs
blue = Okada coilpacks with Bosch plugs
violet = Okada coilpacks with NGK plugs
light blue = OEM rev. R coilpacks with NGK plugs

To make the plot a lot more easy to read here is the results that you want to see

red = OEM rev R coilpacks with Bosch plugs
violet = Okada coilpacks with NGK plugs
light blue = OEM rev. R coilpacks with NGK plugs

[bigblue]

wow plugs and coils make a big difference. well not huge but the plot shows it.

[[email protected]]

I think 15hp/15tq at the wheels is pretty good gain for coilpack and spark plug upgrade.

The gains would be higher at higher boost levels as well.

[Sales@RAI]

Winston, incredible writeup. People don't understand how annoying documenting this can be, and the time out of your day that it took.

Anyways, it seems that the Okada are doing their job, as the spark is obviously stronger/better and making more power. Winston, I told you those Bosch plugs are the jam right? Gotta give credit to Brian though, he was the one who told me about them.

However, I know me, Dan, and David find it weird that you're the only ones without success on the D coils. I love them. I will probably do some back to back pulls on the dyno soon with the Rs/Ds. If it helps me get my 500awhp goal, I'm all about it

[7speed]

740/15= 49.33 per whp. Numbers look good but the cost out weights the benefit. Now if there were like a 3yr warranty that would be different.

[walky_talky20]

Wow, great work. I was skeptical, but these results speak for themselves.

I would like to have seen the Hitachi E bolt-down coils (used for the 2000 model year) compared at the same time. I've read that the push down coils (introduced in 2001) had hotter spark to help the cars gain ULEV status. I always thought that's what made them fail so often. They just ran too hard. This makes me wonder about the Okada coils and their longevity.

It would follow, then, that the new D coils would be less powerful so as to fix this high failure rate coil problem.

>Winston, you may want to size down the pictures a little. They took a while to load for me.

[ruphianh]

Great write up. I know what spark plugs I'm getting next. . . however on the coil side, I'll just keep getting my recall packs. . .750 for coil packs?


GROUP BUY on Coil Packs to bring that down??

[[email protected]]

Winston, incredible writeup. People don't understand how annoying documenting this can be, and the time out of your day that it took.

Thanks for the kind words.

Trying to document all aspects of a test to show that the reviewer is being impartial, planning out how to do the test and getting the customer's car back to the way it was takes a bit of planning. I am getting better at it with each attempt though!

Anyways, it seems that the Okada are doing their job, as the spark is obviously stronger/better and making more power. Winston, I told you those Bosch plugs are the jam right? Gotta give credit to Brian though, he was the one who told me about them.

However, I know me, Dan, and David find it weird that you're the only ones without success on the D coils. I love them. I will probably do some back to back pulls on the dyno soon with the Rs/Ds. If it helps me get my 500awhp goal, I'm all about it

Well the Okadas show the best gains at higher boost levels and paired with meth it can yield big results. Unfortunately I was not able to document the gains on my own car, however, we at the shop know what these Okada coils are capable of doing.

The plugs used were chose for his power levels. And I think you meant to say the NGK are the jam... well based on the last dyno test the Bosch FR5DTR 3 prong plug did better than the NGK ones. I plan to swap back to the Bosch at the next oil change.

I was amazed that the car misfired on the new coils as well, that's why I had to do a reshoot to make sure it wasn't a mistake. When you do plan to dyno your setup let me know as I am planning on setting up a Okada "free test" service where you just pay for the shipping to try them for 14 days. I'm still working on the details, but I would like to get a set in your hands for that dyno session.

740/15= 49.33 per whp. Numbers look good but the cost out weights the benefit. Now if there were like a 3yr warranty that would be different.

Well I don't expect a flood of people to jump and buy them.

The only people I think that would benefit most are those pushing a 2871 or larger setup running meth.

Wow, great work. I was skeptical, but these results speak for themselves.

I would like to have seen the Hitachi E bolt-down coils (used for the 2000 model year) compared at the same time. I've read that the push down coils (introduced in 2001) had hotter spark to help the cars gain ULEV status. I always thought that's what made them fail so often. They just ran too hard. This makes me wonder about the Okada coils and their longevity.

It would follow, then, that the new D coils would be less powerful so as to fix this high failure rate coil problem.

>Winston, you may want to size down the pictures a little. They took a while to load for me.

The Hitachi E coils make less spark than the rev R, that is a known fact. Maybe it also attributes them to lasting longer as well.

The Okada coils can't be compared to the OEM ones as they are built differently, they have to have many, many more windings inside of them to generate 4x as much spark as OEM.

And I was hoping people wouldn't click on the pictures and just look at the Audizine auto-resized ones

[7speed]

Sorry to bring a bad tone to your thread Winston. Like I said the numbers look good, just gotta cut that price point a bunch.

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Sorry to bring a bad tone to your thread Winston. Like I said the numbers look good, just gotta cut that price point a bunch.

No need to apologize as the price is what it is.

I can't really post a price up but I'll give a decent discount to AZ members that want a set.

If enough people are interested putting a group buy together isn't out of the question.

[NetLogic]

You pay this much or more for exhaust and does that give you a 15 whp gain? not saying I will buy them but look at what else is bought for our cars with little gains.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

I haven't used the D revision, only R, but they have always worked good. Don't buy any from Advance auto though if you have a lot of power, those off brand lasted 2 weeks and started screwing up. I just got 4 NEW R revision from classifieds for $50 though!!

Oh and next dyno get a car running high 20s with a 30r or bigger for boost! Let's see the difference then and if it is more substantial. Maybe vs R revision coils if possible.

[Dan[FN]6262]

this is interesting.

[n7plus1]

so basically, in order to lower failure rate of CP's, audi used one that lessoned spark/output to increase reliability?...nice.....

[Sales@RAI]

I'm not sure if that's the case. Dan and I both switched to D coils and the car felt faster/smoother

[n7plus1]

well "felt faster" isnt anything compared to dynos...actually hard numbers...this sucks...not that i have any crazy BT on my car...but i could see some better numbers with old CP's

[[email protected]]

I haven't used the D revision, only R, but they have always worked good. Don't buy any from Advance auto though if you have a lot of power, those off brand lasted 2 weeks and started screwing up. I just got 4 NEW R revision from classifieds for $50 though!!

Oh and next dyno get a car running high 20s with a 30r or bigger for boost! Let's see the difference then and if it is more substantial. Maybe vs R revision coils if possible.

Well there aren't that many built up cars in Vancouver so finding candidates is hard, and each of these dyno sessions is out of my pocket too. If you can get me that set of new R's I'll put them in my car and do a 25psi dyno comparison.

I also have a plan in mind to get people a chance to try out the Okada coilpacks for 14 days for just the cost of shipping... a refundable deposit will be needed of course.

[Sales@RAI]

Winston, do you think its odd that no one else seems to have issues with the D coilpacks though? I'm just trying to figure it out

[Turbavanttro]

740/15= 49.33 per whp. Numbers look good but the cost out weights the benefit. Now if there were like a 3yr warranty that would be different.

when i bought a used set of coils i called the Okada folks and they told me they would support me if one failed. maybe they will maybe they won't but they seem genuinely interested in supporting their product. not sure what the warranty is but based on conversations i had with them i give them two thumbs up.

Winston, do you think its odd that no one else seems to have issues with the D coilpacks though? I'm just trying to figure it out

i had misfires with new D coils, bought a set of used Okadas, and I havent observed any misfires since.

its a tough sell at 750, but like david i would really love to see the comparison on a BAT

[[email protected]]

Winston, do you think its odd that no one else seems to have issues with the D coilpacks though? I'm just trying to figure it out

Well I had problems with the new set I bought, and to rule out a bad set of coilpacks I bought a new set and put them on the 2871 setup and had the misifing issues as well.

[[email protected]]

i had misfires with new D coils, bought a set of used Okadas, and I havent observed any misfires since.

its a tough sell at 750, but like david i would really love to see the comparison on a BAT

Well I made 400whp on the dyno with 780cc injectors and meth with rev R coilspacks.

Now I make 400 with 630cc injectors and meth on Okada coilpacks. Bob was able to advance the timing to take advantage of the spark and less timing pull past 5000rpm helps get to the figure.

[JEENYUS]

wait, wait, wait... Winston, you're white!?!

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Asian with blue hair. I guess that is white

[drjonez]

Have you disassembled an Okada yet? I'm curious about the internal differences. My offer to test output voltage still stands...

[JEENYUS]

Asian with blue hair. I guess that is white

ok... i always thought he was asian. but then i saw those pictures and they were a white guys arms... misleading. i demand a picture of you.

EDIT: found one:

[[email protected]]

ok... i always thought he was asian. but then i saw those pictures and they were a white guys arms... misleading. i demand a picture of you.

Come on.

That doesn't even come close to looking like me.

Here is a recent pic from a photoshoot

[speedydragon]

a 2871 making only ~210whp? I know some dynos read low, but that's real low. And what is up with the torque readings in the first couple of dyno charts?

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a 2871 making only ~210whp? I know some dynos read low, but that's real low.

As I stated: All pulls were done at 18psi as that is what his manual boost controller was set at and 94 octane gas. His car is not running meth.

This test was to show plug and play gains so no adjustment to the setup of the car was done.

And what is up with the torque readings in the first couple of dyno charts?

Are you referring to the graph with the green line?

That's when the rev D coilpack spark blew out and the car started to misfire.

[speedydragon]

Are you referring to the graph with the green line?

That's when the rev D coilpack spark blew out and the car started to misfire.

I meant the first dyno chart where the torque reading is like 800lb. tq.

[[email protected]]

The scale used for that axis was not correct in the chart.

You can see in the last few graphs the scale factor was corrected.

[[email protected]]

Here is the reply from Okada in regards to the warranty:

The warranty is 1 year and replacement only.

If the coil pack fails they send it back to us for the replacement. The replacement coil has 1 year warranty as well.

[hercfe]

You pay this much or more for exhaust and does that give you a 15 whp gain? not saying I will buy them but look at what else is bought for our cars with little gains.

Not true my friend. You pay 1000 for 15 guaranteed hp with an exhaust over stock with the STOCK turbo. you won't see that with the coils. These are great for BATs, but for less than 400whp it's not worth it.

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Not true my friend. You pay 1000 for 15 guaranteed hp with an exhaust over stock with the STOCK turbo. you won't see that with the coils. These are great for BATs, but for less than 400whp it's not worth it.

I must have chosen my exhaust very poorly when I first started modding my wagon.

What exhaust provides a guaranteed +15whp using the stock turbo?

[Turbavanttro]

Most high performance cars I have seen have high performance ignition systems or have upgraded ignition systems. Here we are with our crappy OEM coilpacks that are both weak and prone to failure, and with few off the shelf options to obtain reliable, hotter, and more precise ignition. An option comes along in the Okadas, albeit a little pricey, and people pontificate about whether Okadas are worth the investment.

Isnt it not so much about gaining horsepower as it is about gaining proper/complete ignition at all times? So we stuff a bunch more air and fuel into our cylinder chamber and we expect the stock coilpacks to be sufficient? Maybe they are and maybe they aren't, but I suspect they are not. And while it would be nice to have real data to base these decision on, logic would suggest we improve the ignition system when we add significant volumes of air and fuel. The way I look at it, its more of an insurance policy than anything. That's my 2 cents

[widgget]

just threw a new set of R packs in my car yesterday and the high rev misfiring is all gone now. :)
sticking with my once a year replacement schedule for the coil packs since they just loose their kick after awhile.

going to replace the harness next i think,

[spector]

I must have chosen my exhaust very poorly when I first started modding my wagon.

What exhaust provides a guaranteed +15whp using the stock turbo?

None. All the gains come from the HFC and the DP. DP-back doesn't bring gains until you are BAT, and even then it's negligible. As someone pointed out, tons of people waste $600+ on a DP-back exhaust system which provides only aesthetic sound value, so $700 on something that actually gives gains is not unreasonable. Though I wonder if it gives ANY gains with more stock setups.

[dougyfresh]

None. All the gains come from the HFC and the DP. DP-back doesn't bring gains until you are BAT, and even then it's negligible. As someone pointed out, tons of people waste $600+ on a DP-back exhaust system which provides only aesthetic sound value, so $700 on something that actually gives gains is not unreasonable. Though I wonder if it gives ANY gains with more stock setups.

I must have chosen my exhaust very poorly when I first started modding my wagon.

What exhaust provides a guaranteed +15whp using the stock turbo?

You will actually loose power (imagine less than 170hp in this car! ) when installing a cat-back exhaust on a stock car. Gains with just a chipflash and a cat-back exhaust are also negligable. I have the data somewhere to back this statement up.

[Dolphin18T]

I never realized how flimsy and cheap-feeling the OEM coilpacks really were until I got hold of the Okadas.

[[email protected]]

IIRC the stock turbo system was designed to use some of the backpressure that is in the system and removing this would be detrimental.

When I went BAT I was told I would need a new exhaust since my Milltek was too restrictive.

I chose to modify my Milltek exhaust to mate to the DP and then later on went with a full 3" exhaust there were gains that were shown on the dyno and very noticeable when driving.

[nofearhawk]

I think these are great, but I feel many people consider coilpacks a replacement item, and OEMs are cheap enough that some even replace them yearly.

At the price of these, I would hope for something more permanent. THe comparison to an exhaust is poor, as exhausts will rarely need replacement. If these were bulletproof, I would probably throw in for them, but the idea of spending ~$700, even every other year on coilpacks is a bit much.

For those that want the most out of their cars, I'm sure they'll swing for these and they should, as the gains are definitely there. I think it's more a niche market than for the masses.