APR Stage II Exhaust Programming - Development Update with Dyno Results!

[ikotua]

i think you should make a FMIC asap to complement everything else:)

[mikechan929]

A question i havnt seen asked.. Will there be different octane files or just a 93 octane? Im fine with 93, but i liked being able to run 100oct with meth injection.



Careful with that, some dealers will charge you a "labor fee" and say its not free for the new file, it honestly doesnt take over 10 mins to hook up a computer and upload a new file. Try calling other dealers.

But the thing is there is only one loca dealer in my area....sigh....!

[levonig007]

Im wondering, do these mods work with the FWD multitronic cars. Or is that too much power going to the front wheels??

[Arin@APR]

Would this benifit if the vehcile already has a test pipe in place, coupled with stock exhaust?

Our stage 2 programming? Yes. However you'll see greater gains by running our full turboback exhaust system.

I think this is going to be a FAQ, along with whether this file can be run with a completely stock exhaust system and/or various components of competitor exhaust systems. Hopefully APR reps can comment.

You absolutely MUST have a high flow catalytic converter, or no cat at all, to run stage 2 software.

Well I think the exhaust is a portion of it. The CAT is going to play a large part. I just don't feel like piecing together cat from here and a pipe from there to get this all together. It would be nice for an all in one CAT and downpipe to be available.

We will be offering an APR Downpipe Exhaust System from the turbo to the end of the OEM downpipes designed to mate up to the stock cutback.

But my local dealer here said it's no way for free upgrade from Stage one to Stage two wo, can u confirm on it?

If you have APR Stage 1 software, APR Stage 2 software is a FREE Upgrade. The dealer may charge labor if they want. We don't.

A question i havnt seen asked.. Will there be different octane files or just a 93 octane? Im fine with 93, but i liked being able to run 100oct with meth injection.

Yes. There will be Stock, 91, 93, 100, 95 ron, 98 ron, 104 ron and valet.

Way to go APR! Now I need to start saving for all the new mods. Are you guys going to be at Waterfest with the exhaust?

You bet! We are the title sponsor!

wow this makes me happy but a K04 or gt2871r should do this car justice

We agree…. It sure does! ;)

Upgraded FMIC is really needed or not?

We are safe when it comes to charge air temp. If your intercooler heat soaks we compensate and reduce ignition timing and other variables to ensure the engine does not knock. A properly designed intercooler system that preforms better than stock will ensure you're always getting the most out of the car. Hopefully you'll see a unit from us in the future.

In relation to some of the comments about the Stage II tune being necessary does this apply to both the turbo back and cat back options?

Stage 2 file can only be used with the downpipe exhaust system and turboback exhaust system. You cannot use it with only the cutback exhaust system. The downpipe is the biggest restriction. Once it's removed then the cutback becomes the next restriction, not the other way around.

[Nght&Day-B8]

Yes. There will be Stock, 91, 93, 100, 95 ron, 98 ron, 104 ron and valet.

Any dyno tests done with a 100oct file? Im wondering if there were different numbers than the ones shown with 93.

[Keith@APR]

Any dyno tests done with a 100oct file? Im wondering if there were different numbers than the ones shown with 93.

Yup, we'll have updated graphs at time of official release with all octanes.

[Nght&Day-B8]

Sweet, again nice work guys


Keith, sent you a PM

EDIT: your inbox is full..

[mgm]

Will your intake add any power and is it required or part of the Stage 2 package? Will it be released with exhaust?

[Arin@APR]

Will your intake add any power and is it required or part of the Stage 2 package? Will it be released with exhaust?

We are shooting for a waterfest release for the intake in limited supply only for those who attend waterfest. You guys keep buying these intakes like it's crack so production has been kicked up to the maximum. I'll have full dyno data at a later time.

The intake is NOT required for this stage 2 programming. The results of my testing above were with the OEM intake system and OEM intake filter.

[Keith@APR]

Sweet, again nice work guys


Keith, sent you a PM

EDIT: your inbox is full..

yeah, I hate pm's with the new forum software. I can't find the link to view them so I am passively aggressively boycotting pm's. lol

[email protected]

[grmncrsnbr]

yeah, I hate pm's with the new forum software. I can't find the link to view them so I am passively aggressively boycotting pm's. lol

[email protected]

Its in the upper left hand corner next to "Welcome, Keith@APR"

[Nght&Day-B8]

yeah, I hate pm's with the new forum software. I can't find the link to view them so I am passively aggressively boycotting pm's. lol

[email protected]

LOL its cool i'll shoot you an email

[cory_can]

We are shooting for a waterfest release for the intake in limited supply only for those who attend waterfest. You guys keep buying these intakes like it's crack so production has been kicked up to the maximum. I'll have full dyno data at a later time.

The intake is NOT required for this stage 2 programming. The results of my testing above were with the OEM intake system and OEM intake filter.

hmmmm...8 hour drive to NJ ....that's pretty far to drive for crack that I know nothing about

[NWS4Guy]

Its in the upper left hand corner next to "Welcome, Keith@APR"

saying "You have 28,341 unread messages"

LOL

[Keith@APR]

Its in the upper left hand corner next to "Welcome, Keith@APR"

I know, its the lack of popup reminder that frustrates me as I like to pop in and post, go about other stuff, and come back. having the new message indicator obnoxiously in my face made me reply to them.

I'll go clean it up, that is prolly the right thing to do and I'll stop being lazy now.

[Keith@APR]

saying "You have 28,341 unread messages"

LOL

Only 73! That's about the pm size limit I guess.

[cory_can]

I know, its the lack of popup reminder that frustrates me as I like to pop in and post, go about other stuff, and come back. having the new message indicator obnoxiously in my face made me reply to them.

I'll go clean it up, that is prolly the right thing to do and I'll stop being lazy now.

General Settings > Show New Private Message Notification Pop-up

[Keith@APR]

General Settings > Show New Private Message Notification Pop-up

Thank you. I have reconciled my relationship with the new forum software and will now be answering all PM's and keeping up with replies and such.

[Nght&Day-B8]

Will your intake add any power?

Well by using a good example Arin made in another thread for an exhaust with cats, i think it can be changed around to answer this question aswell.

Arin said for the exhaust with cats..

It's like blowing into a straw that's 10mm on one end with a wad of cotton jammed in the middle of it and 50mm on the exit end.

For an intake, think of it the other way, it would be like sucking from the 50mm end of the straw with a cotton swap placed infront of the straw at the other end. You want to replace that cotton swab with something free'r flowing alowing more air to pass.

You guys keep buying these intakes like it's crack

mmm APR crack LOL

I'll have full dyno data at a later time.

I'll be looking foward to this, not sure if i should hold my breath for it though

[DavidB8]

Well thats great news about the downpipe.. You can put me down for one...

Now this waterfest intake only deal thing.... Not sure thats really fair for those of use that couldn't make it without a plane ride :)

Hook a brother up :)

[Runge]

must put more kilometers on the car, make sure there are no problems with it before tuning it. Wouldn't want stealership to void my engine warranty with only 3000km on it in-case something happens. maybe after the 8k service :)

[ThePiombino]

We are shooting for a waterfest release for the intake in limited supply only for those who attend waterfest. You guys keep buying these intakes like it's crack so production has been kicked up to the maximum. I'll have full dyno data at a later time.

The intake is NOT required for this stage 2 programming. The results of my testing above were with the OEM intake system and OEM intake filter.

I'll definitely be there...will bells on if need be. I hope the price point is in my wheel house!

[cory_can]

Now this waterfest intake only deal thing.... Not sure thats really fair for those of use that couldn't make it without a plane ride :)

Hook a brother up :)

....and Cory.

You probably should have someone in Canada test the intake before you release it......and David would probably just have it sit on his living room floor (with the rest of his car) for the next few months anyway ....or a Polar bear would just eat it.

[Nght&Day-B8]

Must be some gooood crack apr is selling lol. I get these guys though, some of us like myself have cash in hand ready to buy these but arent able to make it to waterfest.. so it kinda blows.

[John4378]

Question for APR: The graph states that your new Stage II file will produce 248 bhp but why did APR choose to use only a 12% drivetrain loss on a Quattro equipped car? Wouldn't 18%-20% be more appropriate? If not, please tell us why. Thanks.

[Nght&Day-B8]

If you keep reading it says for Quattro vehicles click the link, it will pop up a screen with the numbers for a quattro drivetrain loss. It shows 218awhp and 312awtq for us quattro tip guys.

[Keith@APR]

Well thats great news about the downpipe.. You can put me down for one...

Now this waterfest intake only deal thing.... Not sure thats really fair for those of use that couldn't make it without a plane ride :)

Hook a brother up :)

It has little to do with fairness, honestly. We want to release it at Waterfest, so we must have inventory of it at Waterfest. Waterfest is special, so is our intake, so it works out. lol

[Arin@APR]

Question for APR: The graph states that your new Stage II file will produce 248 bhp but why did APR choose to use only a 12% drivetrain loss on a Quattro equipped car? Wouldn't 18%-20% be more appropriate? If not, please tell us why. Thanks.

We believe Audi has underestimated what this car makes. It only took us 12% drivetrains loss to get what we measured at all four wheels back to what audi advertises at the crank for HP. We simply chose to be conservative. We also know drive train loss is not a fixed number. It should be variable and increase towards redline. Unfortunately there is no real accurate way to measure this so we have elected to use a small fixed DTL. European tuners typically will not only apply DIN correction factors even on a turbo car, but they will also use MAHA dynos with large coast down tests. It's not in heard of to see a car on those dynos putting down something like 140 whp which they correct to 270 crank hp.

If you want, you can use any Drivetrain loss you would like when discussing power between friends. Here's a list:

DTL - TQ - HP
0% 312 TQ 218 HP <- What we measured at all four wheels.
1% 315 TQ 220 HP
2% 318 TQ 222 HP
3% 322 TQ 225 HP
4% 325 TQ 227 HP
5% 328 TQ 229 HP
6% 332 TQ 232 HP
7% 335 TQ 234 HP
8% 339 TQ 237 HP
9% 343 TQ 240 HP
10% 347 TQ 242 HP
11% 351 TQ 245 HP
12% 355 TQ 248 HP <- What we use
13% 359 TQ 251 HP
14% 363 TQ 253 HP
15% 367 TQ 256 HP
16% 371 TQ 260 HP
17% 376 TQ 263 HP
18% 380 TQ 266 HP <-
19% 385 TQ 269 HP <- What you've indicated you feel is appropriate.
20% 390 TQ 273 HP <-
21% 395 TQ 276 HP
22% 400 TQ 279 HP
23% 405 TQ 283 HP
24% 411 TQ 287 HP
25% 416 TQ 291 HP
26% 422 TQ 295 HP
27% 427 TQ 299 HP
28% 433 TQ 303 HP <- What some other tuners use!
29% 439 TQ 307 HP
30% 446 TQ 311 HP


What it really comes down to is the fact it doesn't matter what you use. What matters is there's a clear and undeniable delta between stock and modded power levels. :)

[NWS4Guy]

Audi would never underrate the B8 platform!

[Keith@APR]

Audi would never underrate the B8 platform!

They don't do that. Only BMW underrates engines.

[linet90]

I cant wait to see the exhaust in person, will you guys be selling ECU upgrades on the spot? and ill be there early to get my hands on one of those intakes!

[Keith@APR]

I cant wait to see the exhaust in person, will you guys be selling ECU upgrades on the spot? and ill be there early to get my hands on one of those intakes!

yes sir!

[Kay15]

So, the down pipe being the most restrictive aspect of the exhaust, would that be the CAT we speak of or the pipe that goes from the end of the cat to the mid pipe? I still dont know but i would think since the cat goes from the Turbo .. DOWN to the rest of the exhaust, the "down" part will probably have me lean more towards the cat section being the down pipe?

For those who have the awe and euro codes system from the mid pipe back and a hfc there is a small section that is left that is still stock, wondering if that has any restrictive characteristics ?

[Keith@APR]

So, the down pipe being the most restrictive aspect of the exhaust, would that be the CAT we speak of or the pipe that goes from the end of the cat to the mid pipe? I still dont know but i would think since the cat goes from the Turbo .. DOWN to the rest of the exhaust, the "down" part will probably have me lean more towards the cat section being the down pipe?

For those who have the awe and euro codes system from the mid pipe back and a hfc there is a small section that is left that is still stock, wondering if that has any restrictive characteristics ?

Turbo cars love free flowing larger diameter exhausts. You can ramp up the boost hard in the software and reduce spool dramatically.

In order to do this you need as much room in tubing behind the turbo as possible. It has a lot to do with the cat but it has just as much to do with the restriction behind the cat in the down pipe too.

To test it, try a hfc stock exhaust vs down pipe and stock catback. The gains of a catback alone are not anywhere near the gains of a down pipe nor is a hfc alone.

Look at down pipe gains in a tt or GTI vs hfc gains in any a4 turbo.

[naemcivic]

would APR sale their downpipe as an individual part? I already have a test pipe in place, I would like to keep my stock exhaust, but replace the downpipe to eliminate restrictions.

[cory_can]

would APR sale their downpipe as an individual part? I already have a test pipe in place, I would like to keep my stock exhaust, but replace the downpipe to eliminate restrictions.

see #44

"We will be offering an APR Downpipe Exhaust System from the turbo to the end of the OEM downpipes designed to mate up to the stock cutback. "

[naemcivic]

^^oh thanx for pointing it out bro.

[cory_can]

^^oh thanx for pointing it out bro.

no prob....I was thinking of having a larger diameter custom downpipe made (with resonator) to go between my HFC and Catback but it looks like I'll wait to see what APR offers

[naemcivic]

see #44

"We will be offering an APR Downpipe Exhaust System from the turbo to the end of the OEM downpipes designed to mate up to the stock cutback. "

oh, #44 looks like an all-in one HFC/downpipe replacement. I am only looking for the downpipe.

[cory_can]

oh, #44 looks like an all-in one HFC/downpipe replacement. I am only looking for the downpipe.

yup....you would have to replace your existing HFC/E-Pipe since its included