2007 Audi A4 3.2FSI - @ 147k carbon/deposit buildup

[BryanR]

2007 Audi A4 3.2FSI - @ 147k carbon/deposit buildup


Worse closer to the PCV intake


After clean


Flappers

[spa]

what a mess, I know what the F in FSI stands for now.. fucked!

BTW how much do you charge for a cleaning? i see a really nice steady income coming in for years to come at IT...lol... I would send Audi a nice thank you letter if I were you

[Akatsuki...]

thanks for photos brian

[Turbo_Whip]

Sometimes I wish I had the 2.0T FSI in my A4, but with all the carbon buildup issues I keep hearing about, the 1.8T doesn't seem so bad.

[audifirst]

I am just wondering how much carbon deposit I have in my 99 A6 with 293000 km on it.. :)

[ed@mtl]

Humm, I wonder if I can swap my engine to the 2.7T

[spa]

Humm, I wonder if I can swap my engine to the 2.7T

do it:D

i know you're joking but i think it is illegal to go older engine in a newer car? someone correct me if I am wrong. With all the carbon stuff the value of my B5 S4 is rising as fast as the value of my B7 A4 falling.

[bunnn]

lol bryan..can you imagine working on my A4 3.2? must have been disgusting with what the dealer put me through...thank god i got rid of it

[westphr]

Bryan R you are going to need to hire 1 person full time just for carbon /deposit buildup removal !!

Just so I'm clear is it all FSI engines up to certain year?
Is the issue resolved?
I was considering a 2.0T FSI but not for now!

[Tanner]

I don't think the issue has been resolved yet. All direct injection engines will encounter this problem unless there are some 'workarounds' to help *prevent* the buildup. Toyota for example uses a small injector port-side which splashes a bit of fuel on the intake valves (can't remember if it's during startup or something) but one of their other V6 engines have experienced misfires and such due to buildup on the intake valves. Mini Cooper S's with the direct injection engines also experiences the same issue. Pretty soon, everything is going to be direct injection for the sake of better fuel economy and emissions but at the offset of this issue.

[L0U]

thats some high mileage for a 2007.

[westphr]

thats some high mileage for a 2007

I guess you can rule out city driving as a root cause on this car?

[spa]

pizza delivery vehicle..

[westphr]

That's a lot of pizzas

[Mezzer]

That's a lot of pizzas

Damn straight that alot of pizza's, and now they get there much faster.

All kidding aside...The car feels like it has a new engine. I wish I had done a before and after dyno to see exactly how much power is lost to the carbon build up. Oh well maybe next time. For now, .

[Jurjen]

I wonder if quality (or lack there of) of north american fuel/oils has anything to do with it? Anyone know if they have this problem in Europe?

[jdogg]

Could that be from the 87 oct fuel or is this from 91+

That is nasty, i wonder what mine would look like at 170 000?

[Tanner]

I wonder if quality (or lack there of) of north american fuel/oils has anything to do with it? Anyone know if they have this problem in Europe?

Yes they are having the same issues with the RS4 in Europe, UK, etc.

Could that be from the 87 oct fuel or is this from 91+ That is nasty, i wonder what mine would look like at 170 000?

Perhaps but the issues is due to direct injection than anything else.

[Vento 3]

Bryan, whats involved in this carbon buildup cleaning? looks like you remove a lot of parts? not just seafoaming it? or the BG product?

please let us know how much the service will cost us, and how long it would take. thanks!

[RS.Fez]

Just another excuse to upgrade to the 4.2 V8 S4 once the lease is done

:)

[spa]

Just another excuse to upgrade to the 4.2 V8 S4 once the lease is done

:)

B6 S4s are fine B7 are FSI same shit.

[spidey9999]

B6 S4s are fine B7 are FSI same shit.

B7 S4 was not FSI, but RS4 was.

[spa]

good thing they held off on that, must be the only model with non fsi engines left for those years.

[RS.Fez]

B6 S4s are fine B7 are FSI same shit.

Damnit....spidey999 beat me to it.

Yeah - only RS4 V8 has FSI

[J Ozzie]

wow. My b5 is 01 and on 217k and theres nothing that bad... I looked when i attempted the AEB Intake swap.

[Tanner]

Of course, B5/B6s shouldn't have this problem. It's only the FSI engines that will. In fact, all direct injections, so this isn't just an Audi issue.

[headshok2002]

Yeah... the 2.0T is such a sweet motor to drive, but there's just too many issues to ignore:
-carbon
-oil consumption
-cam follower

I won't be switching to a 2.0T for a looong time.

[Tanner]

As for the first 2.0T, the first and last things are really 'new' maintenance items. As for oil consumption, uh I went well past the recommended oil change requirement and the reading off the oil dip stick was still at the full line, so not an issue for me.

[headshok2002]

Yeah, I understand that they might be considered 'maintenance'... but they are still a PITA and are certainly problems that need addressing. Tearing part of the engine off every 100k shouldn't be something that needs doing... the cam follower adds 30 minutes to every oil change to inspect, and you're gambling if you don't.
Oil consumption isn't a problem with all the cars... certainly not the majority... but there are plenty of 2.0T's that use oil.

[Akatsuki...]

^ the new 2.0T engines.. I.E TSI engines.. have the cam follower fixed. Not sure about the oil consumption, but i heard the carbon build up wasn't nearly as bad. Either way, not like something a catch can can't help prevent it for the length of your ownership.

[Tanner]

Oil consumption appears to be an "issue" with the new 2.0T early on. I think it's still too early to make any assumptions but some have seen oil consumption decrease as the mileage goes by.

[headshok2002]

Yeah, I just knew a guy with an A3 that wasn't going to buy out the car after lease, or do anything with an Audi again because the dealers were telling him it was normal to have to add oil between changes. This was with a car that had over 50k on it so there's no way it could be a break-in thing.
Can't say that I blame him... I'd be furious, too.
I did some research for him and did find out that it is a somewhat common issue (more common than it should be, anyways).

[Tanner]

I know a guy here that has an A4, or his wife actually. Eats oil. Asked how she broke in the engine, she babied it. My theory is that the piston rings don't seat properly and thus it consumes oil like tomorrow. I've read another thread where somebody mentioned that they had severe oil consumption problems and has been working with AOA and the dealer and they're going to replace the rings or something.

If you think about it, what are the possible ways for getting burned off? Rings that don't seal properly would be one of them I'm guessing.

[headshok2002]

That's just it... there aren't that many things that could cause the car to consume oil.

Regardless, though... whether it's a VW or an Audi, they are expensive cars. The guy I know didn't like having to keep a quart of oil and a rag in his trunk and having to pull over and add oil every 6000km or so. At the end he just gave up and only added it when the light came on for low oil... he didn't care anymore. He was giving the car back after lease and was going elsewhere for his next car. He loved the A3, too... so he was pretty frustrated.

[Tanner]

Did you find out from him on how he broke in the engine? In general, the threads I've followed on this issue "seems to indicate" that people that followed this break in procedure....

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

... hasn't experienced issues with oil consumption.

If the rings aren't properly seated right off the start it appears that nothing you can do to "resolve" this.

Of course, take the above site with a grain of salt perhaps. Some swear by it, some dismiss it.

Having watched the Megafactories on the R8 this past weekend, Audi does run all engines at 6000RPM then at redline for a period of time, so it seems that these engines shouldn't have any oil consumption issue unless there's a defect in the rings perhaps. The definitely don't do this on every 2.0T that comes out of the factory, maybe one in every production batch as some have argued that ever 2.0T engine has already been broken in at the factory but I doubt that. Even the 911s, they sample 1 out of 100 engines.

[headshok2002]

Regardless, laypeople can't be bothered with following some 12-step program to break in their engine. Driving the car gently for the first 5k was a simple enough procedure that anybody could follow.

I'm not saying the 2.0T is a POS or anything... but it has too many problems to ignore. I really worry about laypeople, as the vast majority will likely experience cam follower failure.

[Tanner]

I'm not saying the 2.0T is a POS or anything... but it has too many problems to ignore. I really worry about laypeople, as the vast majority will likely experience cam follower failure.

A pessimistic view on this is let it happen. If there are significant number of failures and complaints from both VW and Audi owners, then it'll be at a level where Audi/VW should (or may) do something about.

[BryanR]

A pessimistic view on this is let it happen. If there are significant number of failures and complaints from both VW and Audi owners, then it'll be at a level where Audi/VW should (or may) do something about.

That's a heavy bill to swallow should there be a serious issue. HPFH, cam, lifter, and while you're in there, timing belt, intake clean + all labour is ~$3k with taxes.

[headshok2002]

A pessimistic view on this is let it happen. If there are significant number of failures and complaints from both VW and Audi owners, then it'll be at a level where Audi/VW should (or may) do something about.

Look how long it took them to step up to the plate for the coil issue... and that's a cheap fix compared to thousands of HPFP's.

Seriously, though... Laypeople with 2.0T's are NEVER going to check their followers... so they will almost certainly feel the wrath.

[TheBlueMartin]

So there is a new oil vapor separator for the older 3.2's that should help reduce the carbon issues we have. Wish I would have seen this before I got mine all back together:

http://www.hengst.de/conpresso/_data...Technology.pdf

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C6_A6-...Emissions/PCV/

The visual difference is the plastic housing of the new part compared to the aluminum housing of the old one.



Edit: After searching some more, I've seen this new part in the background of 3.2's getting carbon cleaning, so it must not be a fix-all like Hengst makes it out to be.