Cam profile data for all factory cams

[Jason@Addict]

Here you go. I'll have other profiles soon.

[wdbdy2000s4]

MOAR!!

[diabolical1]

you're a godsend. i've always wanted to get my hands on this information.

[veggiemonster]

wow. the duration is much different between the 2.7 and 2.8 cams....didn't think it was that much

[Reich]

Wow thank's for the info.

RS4's are not so bad as well. Big difference between rs and 2.7

[car]

This should be in the FAQ DIY section.

[S4_NE]

Great info

[pearlwhite]

I'd like to see flow numbers from s4, 2.8 and rs4 heads

[Jason@Addict]

Did you guys see how long ago I posted that?!

Glad someone finally noticed - I thought it was pretty good info for the forum.

[wdbdy2000s4]

Did you guys see how long ago I posted that?!

Glad someone finally noticed - I thought it was pretty good info for the forum.

Yeah, I saw the date pre-bump

When I stumbled on this thread I couldn't believe I never saw it before...I was even more amazed nobody commented though. Maybe you shoulda titled it "misfires" or "can i afford an s4."

Keep up the good work.

[S4NORICE]

AWESOME!

[Trigger Happy]

I'd like to see flow numbers from s4, 2.8 and rs4 heads

I would like to see this too. Does anybody have any info on it?

[SourDieselS4]

Iv linked to this info a couple times

[twinevos4]

is that the 2.8 from europe or usa? atq or aha heads?

[michael66899]

^from what I've been told their the exact same although Jason might be able to verify. I'm currently running 2.8 cams and am happy so far even with my little K03s, I never drove the car with the stock cams so its kind of hard to compare but I have driven several others and mine seems to have considerably more pull up top. I plan on doing a handful of ECUX logs with my car and a buddies thats almost identical minus cams and see if I can find any conclusive date, I'm really not sure what to expect but it would be cool to see some small gains.

[Raacerx]

is that the 2.8 from europe or usa? atq or aha heads?

That is the US 2.8. The European 2.8 doesn't have as aggressive of a camshaft as the US version. If I remember correctly, the European 2.8 has slightly less lift and duration then the RS4 cams.

ATQ and AHA, are the same.

[sfored]

TO resurrect the topic... I have been running the so hated Revolver CAMS ( the so called the more aggressive batch ) ... I am wondering if they are NOT making much of a difference in the peak /top end all that much AND robbing me on the low end ?
Any suggestions ? Between 33 PSI and 38 psi I did not notice a huge gain and I was wondering if the CAMS are unnecessarily aggressive or just NOT so right for my/our cars ...?

Any ideas?

[Raacerx]

TO resurrect the topic... I have been running the so hated Revolver CAMS ( the so called the more aggressive batch ) ... I am wondering if they are NOT making much of a difference in the peak /top end all that much AND robbing me on the low end ?
Any suggestions ? Between 33 PSI and 38 psi I did not notice a huge gain and I was wondering if the CAMS are unnecessarily aggressive or just NOT so right for my/our cars ...?

Any ideas?

Christian @ 034 has some revolver cams in his "RS4" wagon. They are responsible for a fair bit for power and his torque is still pretty good. Not sure what batch they are from or anything, and he is on K04, but they are giving the car power on the dyno at least. Different setup then you, but I would think they would be helping you even more @ your psi.

[salts]

TO resurrect the topic... I have been running the so hated Revolver CAMS ( the so called the more aggressive batch ) ... I am wondering if they are NOT making much of a difference in the peak /top end all that much AND robbing me on the low end ?
Any suggestions ? Between 33 PSI and 38 psi I did not notice a huge gain and I was wondering if the CAMS are unnecessarily aggressive or just NOT so right for my/our cars ...?

Any ideas?

If i knew your turbo setup i could probably help you out more. If you have aggressive cams, getting air into the motor should not be a problem. Therefore the increase of 5psi should be a significant gain. Since you are not seeing a reasonable gain and you are sure that your cams are set up correctly, this condition normally points to the turbine not being able to flow enough volume. Basically, the compressor side is out-flowing the turbine side and this can happen at high boost levels with a turbo that is not properly matched to itself. The motor will only make as much power as the turbine wheels can flow. For example, i had this problem on my old setup. Car made 445wheel and 440 tq at 22psi and 460 wheel and 454 tq at 30 psi. 15wheel horsepower and 14 lb-ft of torque on the same dyno with an additional 8psi. Final analysis was the turbine wheel ran out of flow. Leading to the compressor and engine working harder to fight the back pressure from the turbine side.
So moral of the story is it is probably not the cams. Let me know if you would like me to help you figure this out.

[Jason@Addict]

If i knew your turbo setup i could probably help you out more. If you have aggressive cams, getting air into the motor should not be a problem. Therefore the increase of 5psi should be a significant gain. Since you are not seeing a reasonable gain and you are sure that your cams are set up correctly, this condition normally points to the turbine not being able to flow enough volume. Basically, the compressor side is out-flowing the turbine side and this can happen at high boost levels with a turbo that is not properly matched to itself. The motor will only make as much power as the turbine wheels can flow. For example, i had this problem on my old setup. Car made 445wheel and 440 tq at 22psi and 460 wheel and 454 tq at 30 psi. 15wheel horsepower and 14 lb-ft of torque on the same dyno with an additional 8psi. Final analysis was the turbine wheel ran out of flow. Leading to the compressor and engine working harder to fight the back pressure from the turbine side.
So moral of the story is it is probably not the cams. Let me know if you would like me to help you figure this out.

This is the reason high overlap cams don't work on small turbine set-ups. If you see a cam upgrade with less lift and overlap make more power you know you're restricted by exhaust manifold pressure.

[sfored]

if i am understanding correctly ... the case of the k04s ... the hot side is maxed out ?
my setup is Twin Comp Turbo - Stage 5 - Compressor ~GT30s... . Hot sides are tiny for better (as good as possible) spool characteristics. Help any or did I miss the Q ?

If i knew your turbo setup i could probably help you out more. If you have aggressive cams, getting air into the motor should not be a problem. Therefore the increase of 5psi should be a significant gain. Since you are not seeing a reasonable gain and you are sure that your cams are set up correctly, this condition normally points to the turbine not being able to flow enough volume. Basically, the compressor side is out-flowing the turbine side and this can happen at high boost levels with a turbo that is not properly matched to itself. The motor will only make as much power as the turbine wheels can flow. For example, i had this problem on my old setup. Car made 445wheel and 440 tq at 22psi and 460 wheel and 454 tq at 30 psi. 15wheel horsepower and 14 lb-ft of torque on the same dyno with an additional 8psi. Final analysis was the turbine wheel ran out of flow. Leading to the compressor and engine working harder to fight the back pressure from the turbine side.
So moral of the story is it is probably not the cams. Let me know if you would like me to help you figure this out.

[sfored]

This is the reason high overlap cams don't work on small turbine set-ups. If you see a cam upgrade with less lift and overlap make more power you know you're restricted by exhaust manifold pressure.

again...if I am understanding correctly - revolvers overlaps are too much for for our setups ? I think my turbos are on the bigger side compared to any (most) big turbo setups on the B5 S4 motor...even with the tiny A/Rs...
all of this hitting the wall happened when I ran out of fuel.... I took care of the fuel issue and went to seXier billet wheels on the compressor side... I almost wanna point fingers at the new wheels but ??? Not certain yet...

[J-b5]

I think there may be something else at play here.

Im tempted to put my revolver cams back in the car after we figured out that it was the bad fuel pump, and the terrible tune causing all my issues and the cams only served to highlight the fuel pump's pressure drop issue.

I think ill contact 034 and ask em what they think.

edit: k, sent em an email.

[sfored]

THX... I will look at all that as well... I have a gauge and it was steady on the dyno... I am running a fuel cell - with dual 044s -8 lines and a ton of check valves (F'in expensive) and filters...
I am about to get new compressor wheels this week see if that will make it all go away or will I be stuck at the drawing board...

I think there may be something else at play here.

Im tempted to put my revolver cams back in the car after we figured out that it was the bad fuel pump, and the terrible tune causing all my issues and the cams only served to highlight the fuel pump's pressure drop issue.

I think ill contact 034 and ask em what they think.

edit: k, sent em an email.

[salts]

if i am understanding correctly ... the case of the k04s ... the hot side is maxed out ?
my setup is Twin Comp Turbo - Stage 5 - Compressor ~GT30s... . Hot sides are tiny for better (as good as possible) spool characteristics. Help any or did I miss the Q ?

yes, that helps. Most of the time on top end, k04s will start being restricted which is why you will normally see a K04 dyno graph fall off above 6K rpm. K03's are even worse around 5k RPM which can be seen in the image.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/album....chmentid=12385

So what your saying (i think) is you have a K04 exhaust housing and turbine wheel or RS6 exhaust housing and turbine wheel with a GT30size compressor. So to put this in simple terms, you have a compressor wheel that is larger and flows more volume than your turbine wheel. It is physically impossible to make that exhaust wheel support the compressor side. I believe an RS6 turbine wheel is ~50mm exducer. The compressor inducer is probably around 56mm? If you look at most turbochargers example, a true garrett, Borg Warner, or Bullseye power, the turbine wheel is always larger than the compressor wheel to flow what the compressor is able to flow.
GT3076R : Comp IN- 57mm Turbine OUT- 60mm
GT4202R : Comp IN- 74.7mm Turbine OUT- 82.0mm
BEP S256 : Comp IN - 56mm Turbine OUT- 61.5mm
BEP S362 : Comp IN - 62mm Turbine OUT- 67.6mm

They are all like this, none of them have a smaller turbine wheel minimum diameter than the compressor wheel minimum diameter. I believe that yours are the opposite way. Now you can push a lot of power with the billet wheels, you will spool up sooner, but at some point the turbine wheel is going to hold you back and I think that is what you are seeing.

[sfored]

Sir :) THESE are my turbos :)

yes, that helps. Most of the time on top end, k04s will start being restricted which is why you will normally see a K04 dyno graph fall off above 6K rpm. K03's are even worse around 5k RPM which can be seen in the image.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/album....chmentid=12385

So what your saying (i think) is you have a K04 exhaust housing and turbine wheel or RS6 exhaust housing and turbine wheel with a GT30size compressor. So to put this in simple terms, you have a compressor wheel that is larger and flows more volume than your turbine wheel. It is physically impossible to make that exhaust wheel support the compressor side. I believe an RS6 turbine wheel is ~50mm exducer. The compressor inducer is probably around 56mm? If you look at most turbochargers example, a true garrett, Borg Warner, or Bullseye power, the turbine wheel is always larger than the compressor wheel to flow what the compressor is able to flow.
GT3076R : Comp IN- 57mm Turbine OUT- 60mm
GT4202R : Comp IN- 74.7mm Turbine OUT- 82.0mm
BEP S256 : Comp IN - 56mm Turbine OUT- 61.5mm
BEP S362 : Comp IN - 62mm Turbine OUT- 67.6mm

They are all like this, none of them have a smaller turbine wheel minimum diameter than the compressor wheel minimum diameter. I believe that yours are the opposite way. Now you can push a lot of power with the billet wheels, you will spool up sooner, but at some point the turbine wheel is going to hold you back and I think that is what you are seeing.

[Evilevo]

Hahaha! Ari, the picture of your baby in the background of the turbos is hilarious.

What size are your turbine wheels/turbine housing A/R?

Unless your turbine side is really small, i dont think that would be the problem. The tial 770Rs use a .49AR turbine housing. Not sure what size wheel, but those have shown to make good topend. I personally would go a .64AR like I am using, but that is besides the point.

This is what my turbos are:
Garrett GT2871R-743347-2
Compressor: 53.1mm 71.0mm 56 0.60 Turbine: 53.8mm 76 0.64AR Free Float

[salts]

[QUOTE=sfored;5628222]Sir :) THESE are my turbos :) [QUOTE=sfored;5628222]

Sorry, i thought you were just talking about their wheel upgrades after you asked about the K04's

http://www.compturbo.com/spotlight/Drop%20in%20AUDI.php

The turbine wheels look like they are capable of flowing some serious air compared to the comp. I second evilevo, what is the A/R? Also if your running 38psi, granted i don't know anything about Comp Turbo compressor maps, but if that were a Garrett GT30, you would be on the ragged edge of surge and over-speed in the beginning and end of your rpm band respectively. Therefore, compressor efficiency would be falling off drastically from ~74% to 60% or below. That's a big drop and you will not pick up much power if any with more boost at that point. BTW pushing 2 gt30 sized turbos in the 30's, you should be running some serious power eh?
Also excuse my ignorance if i don't know your vehicle or you. I am not on here much, i have just been bored lately waiting to move into my house and be reacquainted with my S.

[sfored]

All goood and input appreciated ... the A/R restriction would be more of a concern if I were NOT releasing to the atmosphere :) No recirculation here ...I might try to get another 100 horsies .. or say F it till next week and take the car to IDRC this SAT ... see what else I can break this time :))



[QUOTE=salts;5628876][QUOTE=sfored;5628222]Sir :) THESE are my turbos :)

Sorry, i thought you were just talking about their wheel upgrades after you asked about the K04's

http://www.compturbo.com/spotlight/Drop%20in%20AUDI.php

The turbine wheels look like they are capable of flowing some serious air compared to the comp. I second evilevo, what is the A/R? Also if your running 38psi, granted i don't know anything about Comp Turbo compressor maps, but if that were a Garrett GT30, you would be on the ragged edge of surge and over-speed in the beginning and end of your rpm band respectively. Therefore, compressor efficiency would be falling off drastically from ~74% to 60% or below. That's a big drop and you will not pick up much power if any with more boost at that point. BTW pushing 2 gt30 sized turbos in the 30's, you should be running some serious power eh?
Also excuse my ignorance if i don't know your vehicle or you. I am not on here much, i have just been bored lately waiting to move into my house and be reacquainted with my S.

[salts]

[QUOTE=sfored;5629433]All goood and input appreciated ... the A/R restriction would be more of a concern if I were NOT releasing to the atmosphere :) No recirculation here ...I might try to get another 100 horsies .. or say F it till next week and take the car to IDRC this SAT ... see what else I can break this time :))

The turbine housing A/R has nothing to do with whether you are releasing to atmosphere or not. You still have to flow the proper volume at a specific pressure to get the power that you desire at a high efficiency through the volute of the turbine housing which is very dependent on the A/R. Dumped or not, the turbine housing still flows the same amount of exhaust gas.
This is purely and example: A certain turbo is rated for 700horsepower. With a .70A/R housing the turbo is only capable of flowing 600 of its available 700hp through that small A/R. To reach the full potential of the turbo the .91A/R housing needs to be used to flow the required amount of exhaust gas. Dumped wastegates or not, it doesnt matter becuase either way it bypasses the turbine wheel and the volute.

[Angular]

So... a couple dumb questions... are all the exhaust cams the same? For the intake cam measurements where it says "overlap", isn't that the amount of time (in degrees of course) that both intake and exhaust valves are open?

Sir :) THESE are my turbos :)

That turbine housing looks really small relative to the turbine wheel.

[spd579]

wrong thread....multiple windows up....proceed

[Meow]

Sucks that these pics are not up any more... this WAS great info. :(

[jibberjive]

Really? That sucks. Anyone have those pics saved? I was just about to use them to do some engine modeling.

[julex]

Same here, never saved them...

[Timtheguru]

Looks like the site is just down?

[Meow]

Looks like the site is just down?

Yeah, did anyone save them?

[kramrs2]

I don't know what were the graphics shown, but here is what I had gathered regarding cams.
Hope it helps.

[kramrs2]

I have more, but I am traveling and this is what I have in my iPad. tomorrow I post the other addict:motorsport table.

[greatestever1]

I don't know what were the graphics shown, but here is what I had gathered regarding cams.
Hope it helps.

so all you really need is just the 2.8 intake cams,is that what your saying by this