cayenne brake upgrade ???? what rotors????

[Mikse]

Had my rotors come in earlier this week so I spent today playing with everything getting it to all work.

Here are all the parts I used to make mine go:

2: 18Z 350mm calipers2: ML55 rotors
4: 14mm grade 8.8 bolts
4: 16mm by 14mm dry bearings
1: set of 330mm pads
I ran into a few hiccups through out the way but I made everything work. The first rotor that I clearanced I ran into a little problem with the rotor hitting the spindle. I thought that it wasn't completely over the center bore on the hub so I kept on boring out the center of the rotor but it turns out that the rotor was actually hitting the spindle at 2 spots. So since I clearanced the center bore too large it looks like one of my rotors is going to be garbage now since it wont center on the hub.

Also noticed that the 350mm pads that I have will not work because they over hang on the inside edge of the rotor. They would work for a while until the pad/rotor wears down enough to start hitting the lower surface that they over hang on. So I went to autozone and compared the 350mm pads to the 330mm pads and sure enough the 330mm pads look as though they will work a lot better.

Have you tried the 330mm pads how they sit with the 345mm ML55 rotors? Are they better than 350mm pads?

[S4 00 2.7]

Is this a subliminal Pepsi ad?

I want Brembos......
I want a Pepsi.........

Haha

[DevilS4]

So what are all the b6/7 guys doing for a rear upgrade? I'm really thinking of what to use that may work with rs6 rear rotors but look a little nicer?

[1NaudiA4]

Have you tried the 330mm pads how they sit with the 345mm ML55 rotors? Are they better than 350mm pads?

Yep. I went to autozone with my 350mm pads and ML55 rotors and compared them.

I'm having some EBC yellow stuff 330mm pads come in the mail so I'll snap some pics of the differences when they come in.

[americanthunder]

Heres a couple pics of my set up. Running the 18z's with merc rotors 345 w/ the bigger pads, stainless lines. Rear is stock caliper, upgraded pads, 034 adapter bracket 300mm rotors, stainless lines. Wheels are 19 inch VMR 710's et 35, running 6mm spacers in the front and they barely clear the calipers, maybe by 2 mm's. I run 8mm spacers in the rear just for looks, I might bump them out in the future but nothing rubs right now so its had to justify messing with anything. They stop fucking good, like amazing.. there's just so much pedal. I had the car up around 120-130 this past weekend and I just had to give them a little touch and the car slowed back down to normal speeds like nothing. Totally worth the money just for the confidence and safety alone if nothing else. Did I mention your bling factor goes up x10. Every time I'm around other cars I see them staring at the brakes.

[Reggieroo]

Heres a couple pics of my set up. Running the 18z's with merc rotors 345 w/ the bigger pads, stainless lines. Rear is stock caliper, upgraded pads, 034 adapter bracket 300mm rotors, stainless lines. Wheels are 19 inch VMR 710's et 35, running 6mm spacers in the front and they barely clear the calipers, maybe by 2 mm's. I run 8mm spacers in the rear just for looks, I might bump them out in the future but nothing rubs right now so its had to justify messing with anything. They stop fucking good, like amazing.. there's just so much pedal. I had the car up around 120-130 this past weekend and I just had to give them a little touch and the car slowed back down to normal speeds like nothing. Totally worth the money just for the confidence and safety alone if nothing else. Did I mention your bling factor goes up x10. Every time I'm around other cars I see them staring at the brakes.

How do you get on with the larger pads? is there any issues with the overhang? I'm due to fit mine at the weekend using the Merc 345m discs/rotors & have the larger 350mm pads & was wondering if I should get the 330mm but also thought that maybe more pad area with the larger pads is better. The do look awesome too, one of the reasons I went for them in the first place, can't wait to fit mine & see how much the braking has improved.

[americanthunder]

They fit fine, I would go with the larger ones, It effects absolutely nothing. I wouldn't bother with the smaller pads unless your using 330mm rotors. 345 and up -
bigger pads.

[1NaudiA4]

How do you get on with the larger pads? is there any issues with the overhang? I'm due to fit mine at the weekend using the Merc 345m discs/rotors & have the larger 350mm pads & was wondering if I should get the 330mm but also thought that maybe more pad area with the larger pads is better. The do look awesome too, one of the reasons I went for them in the first place, can't wait to fit mine & see how much the braking has improved.

Comparing the 350mm pads vs the 330mm pads it looks like the 350mm pads over hung on the inside of the rotor by about a 1/4" or so. That being said the 330mm pad is 1/4" shorter than the 350mm so it almost works out perfectly. My 330mm pads are coming in tomorrow so I'll snap some pics comparing everything tomorrow night.

[M.S4]

They fit fine, I would go with the larger ones, It effects absolutely nothing. I wouldn't bother with the smaller pads unless your using 330mm rotors. 345 and up -
bigger pads.

Went through 4-5 sets of pads (track) last summer with the "large" pads on the ML55 rotors. Worked great, no problems except rotors are big heavy bricks.

[S4 00 2.7]

...

Tastefully done.

[americanthunder]

Went through 4-5 sets of pads (track) last summer with the "large" pads on the ML55 rotors. Worked great, no problems except rotors are big heavy bricks.

Haha yeah they are! they are BEASTS of brake rotors. I'd like to get some JHM 2 piece rotors at some point but its hard to justify the price difference for something I probably wont notice.

[M.S4]

Haha yeah they are! they are BEASTS of brake rotors. I'd like to get some JHM 2 piece rotors at some point but its hard to justify the price difference for something I probably wont notice.

Yup, they are a good 8-10lbs heavier (each) than the JHM, I just don't trust the jhm on the track.

[beerock]

lol read the thread haha 19 pages? took me like 2 hours...... whats the deal with the ecs rotors and 18z calipers? is the offset on the ecs rotors different and thats why they use an adapter plate?

[DevilS4]

Yup, they are a good 8-10lbs heavier (each) than the JHM, I just don't trust the jhm on the track.

Get the girodisc for track use. As light as the JHM, full floating, and they make exotic car track brake setups. I'll eventually end up with them, using c55 amg rotors for now just based on the price of getting the setup on right now.

[DevilS4]

lol read the thread haha 19 pages? took me like 2 hours...... whats the deal with the ecs rotors and 18z calipers? is the offset on the ecs rotors different and thats why they use an adapter plate?

They are 2 piece rotors, no adapter plate that I know of. The offset is actually custom for the 18z calipers but, for the money I'd buy my own calipers and go with the girodisc rotors. Probably a better option as far as racing history and still very light.

[1NaudiA4]

Just snapped some pics of the 330mm vs 350mm pads with the ML55 rotors.

I'll let the pics do the talking.

330mm pad lined up on rotor top:


330mm pad on inside edge (doesn't over hang):



350mm pad on outside edge:



350mm pad on inside edge:



Put a piece of clay down and smashed it where the 350mm pad over hangs so you can see it a little better:



330mm pad on top of 350mm pad



350mm pad vs 330mm pad so you can see the difference.

[beerock]

They are 2 piece rotors, no adapter plate that I know of. The offset is actually custom for the 18z calipers but, for the money I'd buy my own calipers and go with the girodisc rotors. Probably a better option as far as racing history and still very light.

Im pretty sure there is an adapter plate for the calipers... I bought a ecs stg4 kit used a while back (6 piston cayenne calipers and 2 piece rotors) and the guy I bought them from said I needed the adapter brackets and ecs would sell them to me, So i called up ECS and they wouldnt sell me the adapters is it possible the ecs adapters offset the calipers? or are those adapters for an a4? look at the pic for the ecs 162 black anodized aluminum peices?

on the link for the brakes it says "a new bracket-less caliper mounting system. A new simpler mounting system means you can go from stock to high performance stop in a Saturday afternoon."

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_S4-...age_4/ES4422/#

[beerock]

also someone told me that d2 s8 bolts will work for the front calipers without a spacer is this true?

[DevilS4]

The adapter brackets are for an a4. The caliper spacing is different on the s4 and b6/b7 a4 so that they bolt up directly.

[julex]

So I was browsing rotors on centric site last night and there is an option that might fit 18z (Audi A7 Quattro rotor):



The problem is that it is 3mm taller on one side (total 6mm more) than 350mm so I am not sure if that would fit under the caliper. Otherwise, all the dimensions are right leaving the offset of rotor in the unknown. This is a new item too so not much info out there.

[hyperlight944]

Has anyone taken the 2mm of the caliper eyelet to make it truly centered yet? I'm thinking of going this route since I probably will never get the 2 piece rotors.

cheers

--Daniel

[Grooner]

So I was browsing rotors on centric site last night and there is an option that might fit 18z (Audi A7 Quattro rotor):



The problem is that it is 3mm taller on one side (total 6mm more) than 350mm so I am not sure if that would fit under the caliper. Otherwise, all the dimensions are right leaving the offset of rotor in the unknown. This is a new item too so not much info out there.

I'm gonna say no. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post7437592

[beerock]

The adapter brackets are for an a4. The caliper spacing is different on the s4 and b6/b7 a4 so that they bolt up directly.

are you positive on this? ecs had told me i needed them and i told them i had a b5 s4 not an a4

[beerock]

hey no one responded about the d2 s8 bolts for the cayenne calipers? a friend told me they bolt the calipers right up with no space in between the holes of the calipers? but im not positive on this can anyone verify this?

[julex]

I looked at ETKA and all the bolts for all the brake options are M14 probably b/c the spindle is the same on all S8 models. So no.

[Mikse]

Could someone give accurate measures of the bolts required (JHM) with cayenne calipers. They are M14 but what grade should you get and how long? I would gladly support JHM but they charge 53$ for shipping + 23% VAT so those are one damn expensive bolts for me :D

[DevilS4]

You don't need brackets for a b5 s4. Just did them last weekend on my friends 01. My 07 a4 has the same spindle spacing as an s4 and needed no bracket either.

Could someone give accurate measures of the bolts required (JHM) with cayenne calipers. They are M14 but what grade should you get and how long? I would gladly support JHM but they charge 53$ for shipping + 23% VAT so those are one damn expensive bolts for me :D

I'll measure mine when I get home.

[b6s4avantMBCA]

Yeah, that sorta looks good. LOL.

How did you paint your calipers?? What is that color (I'll save the sarcastic replies, I know it's blue...) and what was the method you used to paint?

sorry for all the questions, but that is sick.

[Reggieroo]

Tried to fit mine yesterday but the offset of the discs/rotors is wrong & they won't fit. Wondering if I have been sent the wrong discs/rotors or if my C5 S6 hub is different to the B5? It looks like the discs need to be offset more, can anybody measure the height of an ML55 disc/rotor, not the diameter but if you place one flat on a table. I tried to used ML55 discs/rotors & you can see in the pic that the caliper is at an angle & the disc/rotor won't sit flat on the hub.

[DevilS4]

For what it's worth I installed my 350mm on my b7 a4 today with c55 amg rotors. Just needed to open up the center bore a little with a flapper wheel. No other mods to the rotors needed and center almost perfectly. Still breaking them in to seat the pads. Going to bleed them again because as a lot of other have told me they do seem to need driven a little and then bled again.

[naudlee]

anyone have any clearance issues w/ ml55amg rotors and aluminum uprights... looks like I have quite a lot of grinding to do :(

[Reggieroo]

According to somebody on here, I can't fit this kit to my S6 because of the offset for the wider track.

[DevilS4]

According to somebody on here, I can't fit this kit to my S6 because of the offset for the wider track.

If it's not sitting flat on the hub is the centerbore large enough and does it clear the bottom of the hub assembly? My C55 rotors are close but clear the hub with only having to slightly increase the centerbore and I did a 12mm stud conversion awhile ago for ease of swapping wheels and better clearance for lugs with my wheels.

[Reggieroo]

If it's not sitting flat on the hub is the centerbore large enough and does it clear the bottom of the hub assembly? My C55 rotors are close but clear the hub with only having to slightly increase the centerbore and I did a 12mm stud conversion awhile ago for ease of swapping wheels and better clearance for lugs with my wheels.

Center bore has already been machined at the MTEC factory from 67mm to 68mm & fit perfect, As soon as you try & fit the calipers you can see the disc offset is wrong, the back face of the disc is a good few 5mm away from the hub & normally the hub/upright/spindle has to be shaved slightly so the disc doesn't rub. This wrong offset then cause the disc not to sit central in the caliper lugs as in the picture. I would need a disc/rotor with more height, the ML55 is 51mm & I would probably need around 56-57mm.

I have had a re-think & put the whole kit up for sale so anybody with a B5 can just fit the whole thing without having to source any parts. I have now bought some RS6 calipers with pads & drilled discs, pads have around 4-5mm left & discs have done 2000 mile.

[dropkneeyoungin]

Heres a couple pics of my set up. Running the 18z's with merc rotors 345 w/ the bigger pads, stainless lines. Rear is stock caliper, upgraded pads, 034 adapter bracket 300mm rotors, stainless lines. Wheels are 19 inch VMR 710's et 35, running 6mm spacers in the front and they barely clear the calipers, maybe by 2 mm's. I run 8mm spacers in the rear just for looks, I might bump them out in the future but nothing rubs right now so its had to justify messing with anything. They stop fucking good, like amazing.. there's just so much pedal. I had the car up around 120-130 this past weekend and I just had to give them a little touch and the car slowed back down to normal speeds like nothing. Totally worth the money just for the confidence and safety alone if nothing else. Did I mention your bling factor goes up x10. Every time I'm around other cars I see them staring at the brakes.

very nice sir.

[julex]

I see two rotors used for 18z calipers, ML55 and GL450. Besides the diameter differences, I also see that they have quite different friction surface offsets as well. While ML55 rotor distance from back of wheel hub surface to back of rotor is 44.5mm (roughly), for GL450 it is 47.5. It is a 3mm difference between the rotors. With the same thickness (32mm), it could be that one is better centered than the other in respect to caliper. Which one is dead on center then? if neither, do they sit more or less off center with one being shifted towards the wheel while the other towards the car?

GL450 specs page:
http://brembo.mycarparts.net/product...7283926#second

ML 55 specs page:
http://brembo.mycarparts.net/product...7284307#second

[Korben007]

apparently you want the rotor center to be 29.5mm from the hub face. So subtract 16mm from that number(half the rotor thickness) and you get 28.5mm for the ML55 Rotor and 31.5mm for the GL450. So one is off by 1mm one way. and one is off by 2mm the other way. I would choose the ML55 for the face that is less deep meaning less work clearing the spindle. The 29.5mm number, im not sure where that came from, someone on audi world did the measurements and say thats the center line for the rotor that you need.

On another note: You could add a 2mm spacer to your hub under the brake rotor and it would sit perfectly with the GL450 rotor.

[julex]

apparently you want the rotor center to be 29.5mm from the hub face. So subtract 16mm from that number(half the rotor thickness) and you get 28.5mm for the ML55 Rotor and 31.5mm for the GL450. So one is off by 1mm one way. and one is off by 2mm the other way. I would choose the ML55 for the face that is less deep meaning less work clearing the spindle. The 29.5mm number, im not sure where that came from, someone on audi world did the measurements and say thats the center line for the rotor that you need.

On another note: You could add a 2mm spacer to your hub under the brake rotor and it would sit perfectly with the GL450 rotor.

That's exactly the kind of info I needed.

The spacer idea crossed my mind, I guess it all depends if there is spacer with small enough diameter to fit under there.

I also have a set of used pads that came with my calipers and realized that once I remove the friction material, the steel plates can be used as spacers/backers for new pads to compensate for off-center disc or for thinner disc problem with these rotors.

[Korben007]

also remember the center bore is 68mm for the part not 57.1 and a spacer would probably push the rotor off the seat and be an issue unless you weld it to the rotor. as the contact area of the pad is different. 59mm for the ML rotor and 62.5mm for the GL rotor. So the pads might sit differently. Worth a trial fit perhaps for someone who has time and both 330mm and 350mm pads.

[julex]

So for ML55/GL450 rotors I need some hubcentric rings then as well or letting it hang on my studs would be fine?

Edit: Nevermind, realized that it would apply if only using spacers. /EDIT

Provided GL450 was fitted and spindle cleared without spacers, extra pad backing behind outboard new pad would prevent outboard pistons from over extending. With just GL450 rotors in, the friction surface of rotor would be 3mm further away than with factory 34mm rotors causing possible issues at the end of pad life.