Tried several chips here is my info on them (LONG)

[Justincredible]

Ok I would like to start by saying that I am bias Towards the chip I now have in my car due to the fact that it addresses MY concerns about a chip. I do not have a chip from ANY ONE of the Companies below. After my test results I Still felt comfortable getting either of the top 2.

But I have been very lucky to work with a tuner that is willing to work with me and I feel that I got the best results. But before I was able to work with a tuner I started gathering info so I would be able to make the best choice between the companies. At 500$ I was not going to just take a chance with word of mouth. I wanted real info to help me make the choice.

Now all chips were on other cars. I would ask to log peoples cars that I met at some of the local meets we have. Others were at events that I attended. Testing was over about a 6 month time frame. All cars were checked for codes before and after the testing. Also All cars were run for at least 4 miles before the tests were started (I would always go for a spirited run with the people before we did the tests)

This is MY finding these results may be different on your car. This was MY attempt to find the best chip for My money. At the cost of 500$ you better be getting a lot more then I found

The chips I have tested were.

I tested 13 cars in total. I tryed to log 3 different cars for each chip company

APR
REVO
Unatronics
GIAC

First test. The honesty test

The honesty test comes from back when I had a 6L twin turbo diesel truck. I put in a program and I thought that I had the best results. Throttle responce was great and the truck really felt better down low. Come to find out the tuner just made the pedal open the throttle more then what I was expecting to get. For instance I was giving the truck about 10% throttle and getting 20% that sure made me think the truck was faster but nope I was just getting fooled.

This is how the test was done for the Audi. The throttle is drive by wire. This means that there is a computer that takes your pedal position and then makes the throttle open based off the request for that Voltage/RPM . Our cars have a 5 Volt sensor for this.

Ok so I found that a stock car will open the pedal more then you think it should at any thing below 2500rpm. So If you are at say 1800rpm and you push the pedal down to say 10% you are actually getting 35% throttle opening (this is on a stock car). After I found this out I made all tests above 2500rpm. This is where the car is spot on with the pedal Vs. throttle position.

So here is how I did this. Got a volt meter measured the Voltage and made measurements for where each Voltage was at in relationship to where the pedal was at. Then I made 4 different sized tubes that represented each voltage level and inserted them. under the pedal for each test.

The honesty test.
APR and REVO were right on where stock should be. GIAC was off quite a bit and unitronics was the worst offender. This made the unitronics car feel faster at part throttle but in the end it was not. Everyone I tested with the unitronics would mention that the Gas mileage was not very good. I would assume this is the case behind this.

Next is the Timing test

The timing test is as it sounds. I would log all cars in 3rd gear from 2500-7200
I would also log the correction for each car. All cars best to my knowledge had 93 oct in the car.

Once again the APR and REVO looked about the same. The both had some correction no more then 6 deg of timing. Almost no correction down low but up in the middle RPM's the both had some scattered around

The GIAC had low timing and no correction

The unitronics car has too much timing there is no way the car would be able to take all the timing the car was asking for. All the unitronic cars had high correction in them all above 12deg at some point. But you have to look at it this way. If you get good gas the unitronics tunes are going to give you more of that timing back. But for standard 93 way too much. One other thing untronics also used a much richer fuel mix. This is some time used to help a car take more timing. This IMHO works better for turbo cars then N/A cars. Now don't let 12deg of timing correction get you too worried. If you own a stock S4 in California you will see corrections of about 6-10 on 91oct.

Fuel A/F

You can log your A/F as we have a wide ban 02 sensor from the factory. This is the best thing to have real accurate.

All cars seemed to go there own way on this one.

APR kept the car safe but lean all threw the rev range with only a blast of fuel at 3500 to help push the Tq up.

REVO blasted the car sooner and then leaned the car out up top. The leanest of the bunch. This equates to a almost flat feeling up top but if you run lean the motor actually is able to rev up faster. But if you have cats in the car not all that great due to the fact that too lean is bad for the cats

GIAC was almost like stock with a small change up top. They leaned it out after 5K

Unitronics. They blasted the car down low and in the mid range with fuel. This will give you a better butt dyno and a great dyno sheet but not good for actual performance as too much fuel will slow the car down. They also were 2nd leanest next to REVO up top. So they ran it fat down low to try and help with the TQ and then leaned it out up top.


Rev limit.

Well all companies raised the REV limits this is almost useless as the car is no faster past 7200.

The only issue I had was once again with the Unitronics car. They had what seemed to be a 7800 REV limit. What the hell were they thinking. The car clearly shows that it is making less power past 7200 there is no reason for this. Every RPM past 7300 IMHO is a huge tax on the entire motor. The RS4 has huge changes to the entire motor to accept those RPM's.

test conclusion

None of these chips is going to be a game breaker and for 500$ I don't think we are getting much of a deal. They all make about the same power on the Dyno but you can tell the difference in the chips at the track.

The fastest times seem to come from the APR and the REVO cars. This seems to be the best combo for tuning. I score APR first due to the technology behind the change programs in the car on the cruse control. This was a huge home run for me and I thought it showed great advancement in the market

I love the spirit behind the unitronics cars. IMHO they really wanted you to get there chip and feel that you spent your money well. But they tryed too hard and in the end they made the car feel fast but in the end it seems to have not equated to any real gain for the money. I think the TQ will make the car feel faster but obviously there is not any help here performance wise. The Tq feeling that they whent for ended up slowing the car down. Timing wise there is no need for all that and I think the REV limit is just irresponsible for a tuner to give that RPM to a customer.

GIAC....well what can I say about them. It just seemed that they didn't really put any time into this. There chip definitely scored low in all the tests and I have not seen one real good performance out of any chipped GIAC cars. But they do make more power then stock and they do keep things very safe. This is good to know with the fact that they are tuning the Supercharger for AWE. In the GIAC car you didn't really know you had a chip in it. They made what seemed to be an attempt to try and give you a feeling that there was more power down low with an exaggerated pedal but this was not enough to help at all. Where all the other 3 you could tell to some extent that the power was more exaggerated. This is a great chip if you just want a little more and a higher REV limit. They didn't push the envelope as far as they could it is IMHO over safe


My take on all of this.

We have seen several Dyno #'s and they are all about the same. But in the end it is not just about the power but how the motor is able to put the power down and how fast the motor is able to make the power. You can make a dyno queen that will not be as fast as a car tuned for the track and pure acceleration. There is such a thing as tuning for the Dyno and not tuning for performance.
I think that has happened here to some extent and I will prove it when I show My 1/4 mile time in the next few days. For 500$ I think hardware is a better way to spend your money. But I will cover my findings on hardware in the next few days

My JHM chip review. 1 full year later.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post4282489

[ngng]

interesting (not that i was expecting much from a NA vehicle)

[91gl]

can this please be bookmarked and kept near the top of the first page for all to see? what an excellent right up.

i totally agree with everything you say here and agree 100% with the differences between REVO and APR. My gas mileage is very poor with the REVO especially in the city since it throws alot of fuel at lower rpm's and you definetely feel it struggle in the upper levels of the rev range.

Another great point is the program switching through the cruise control stalk with APR. much better and easier to use than REVO or GIAC's obd port plug in units.

All in all I have been planning to switch to APR eventually sometime in the near future. once I do, I'll give my opinion on both.

All in all, excellent write up once again. very informative

[ghost_whip]

so what about that software upgrade from singh motorsports or whatever that the guy with the RS4 was so stoked about? is this basically the same thing as these chips? or is it superior/worse, etc?

I have been wanting to do something that has to do with the engine management such as a chip but now maybe not....should I go with something like a tuner such as singh motorsports?

and what tuner/chip are you currently using?

[Justincredible]

Thanks 91 you are one of the reasons why I went looking into the REVO I have respected your point on several threads and the performance #'s you have put down on the track. For me it all ends at the track. You can't fool the time booth.

As for the other up start tuners or other tuners not on the list. I have seen too many try to be a Gunslinger tuner. Where they are happy try to put your car on the ragged edge all to get some exposure. I would stay away from any one that dose not have several good running cars and a long list of success in the tuning game. I was definitely putting my self at risk not using any of the big 4 they are all solid companies with good reputations.

I logged a non popular tuner that claims more power then all of the other companies. Ya I bet it did awesome on the Dyno The Fuel was soo rich it made no since to me. The car was slow as stink. But it had massive timing due to the extra fuel. But in the end even the GIAC car had faster RPM Per sec times then the so claimed most powerful chip out there for the B6 S4.

The reason I used the 4 companies. Ive logged and looked at almost every tune I could get a ride and the owner would allow me axsess to. But in the end. The 4 I picked out would be the best choice for the B6 owners. Altho I think the price is too steep for what you get. These companies have solid tunes. I may not agree with how some of them due it. But I didn't skew the tests I just gathered the info.

My big issue is that some companies put in more work then others to make sure they are not just selling you a chip but they are selling you performance. My current tune I doubt I will ever go to the dyno. One because I already whent to the track and two. Dyno's are so overly skewed by some companies and manipulated by others.

In the end to get real performance you need 2 things. The right parts and the right tune. I got unbelievable results with both. All you need is a tuner shop that is more interested in performance over profit.

[TN2004S4]

Excellent Analysis. I Was Going To Get Giac, But Now I Have To Look Into Apr Or Revo. Thank You For Taking Your Time..

[Monchichi8]

Awesome right up. thanks for the insite! Apr Or Revo. I have been leaning towards Revo since theres a shop here in CO (303) that carries their software. Did you notice the car smoothing out? What I mean by this is.... Does the Car still get up to 3/4 k and hang for no reason? get better mileage.? Smoother acceleration? IF it cures these 3 things and add a touch of power, I think it would be worth it.

[Austin@GIAC]

Care to post the logs? The lambda for the GIAC software should not be "stockish"

and timing should definitely not be low. I should add that the throttle response changes were requested by customers who disliked the lazy feeling of the OEM DBW calbration, it is not smoke and mirrors.

Have you read the article here: http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/b6d.../content.shtml. There was a dyno shootout done on the same car, same dyno, same day and operated by those that run audiworld. Fuel tanks were drained and fuel type was controlled.

On another note, we are one of the few that consistently posts gains such as this here on healthy cars:

Chart stolen from another audizine member

[mitchholmstrom]

Care to post the logs? The lambda for the GIAC software should not be "stockish"

and timing should definitely not be low. I should add that the throttle response changes were requested by customers who disliked the lazy feeling of the OEM DBW calbration, it is not smoke and mirrors.

Have you read the article here: http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/b6d.../content.shtml. There was a dyno shootout done on the same car, same dyno, same day and operated by those that run audiworld. Fuel tanks were drained and fuel type was controlled.

On another note, we are one of the few that consistently posts gains such as this here on healthy cars:

Chart stolen from another audizine member

Rape!!! I need an adult!!!

[Justincredible]

No offence to GIAC but it is your job to try and promote your chip. In the end I don't make the results. you lost the first A/W shoot out and your cars consistently don't perform at the track. I mean if you want to do this on the forum we can.

So lets

After you LOST in the A/W shoot out There was a Demand that A/W let you guys redo the shoot out this from someone on the GIAC side. Well guess what the 2nd shoot out that was not needed cause there already was a shoot out had completely different results. You can say any reason for why there needed to be a second shoot out but the bottom line here is if you didn't bring your A game to the first shoot out then how are we to expect that we are getting your A game with the chips. Not only that but you are notorious for making tunes for the B5 2.7T guys that are meant to win these shoot outs and none of this ends up on any customers cars. This is just complete misrepresentation.

Try checking out most of the results from GIAC cars at the track. They are no better then stock. If you want to sell something for 500$ then the people are not getting there moneys worth performance wise IMHO.

I don't know what to tell you other than go for a ride in a APR car or a REVO car even the unitronics cars have a good feel to them and as I have stated they really put time into trying to make a marked improvement

As I said your correction factors are at 0 this is very safe. And yes you don't change the fuel at all till about 5k.

Try reading your own Dyno results you can see that there is almost no change in Hp till guess what 4500 I said the fuel change was at about 5k. This is where the fuel change was you can see that in the Dyno sheet....and you posted it not me

The added timing down low will contribute to the TQ going up down low and the small change in Hp at peak Tq

Look I'm not saying that your product is not good. But this is how it stacked up against other cars with other tunes. I already said I don't have any of the chips listed on my car. These are what they are if you want your tune to stack up different then change it. Im not going to get into a battle with you about this as there is just no reason.

Try to not shoot the messenger if you don't like what I have to say you have the power do make the changes in the tune. If me coming on here and exposing this gets a better product for all of us then GOOD that is the idea.

[Justincredible]

Awesome right up. thanks for the insite! Apr Or Revo. I have been leaning towards Revo since theres a shop here in CO (303) that carries their software. Did you notice the car smoothing out? What I mean by this is.... Does the Car still get up to 3/4 k and hang for no reason? get better mileage.? Smoother acceleration? IF it cures these 3 things and add a touch of power, I think it would be worth it.

Thanks and sorry for not answering your question first.. The Hang up has been called several things or referred to in different fashions. The hang up is still there it is just shifted up a bit. Mileage can be better but from what I have seen if you want to get the 3 things sorted out. Best to start with hardware first.

Getting the exhaust and the Dp's is going to help all of the chips perform better and HELP eliminate some of the issues that can make the stock car so bothersome

[Captain Insano]

Great, great info. Thanks for posting. I was thinking about chipping at some point and this is VERY helpful.

[hot2trots4]

Care to post the logs? The lambda for the GIAC software should not be "stockish"

and timing should definitely not be low. I should add that the throttle response changes were requested by customers who disliked the lazy feeling of the OEM DBW calbration, it is not smoke and mirrors.

Have you read the article here: http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/b6d.../content.shtml. There was a dyno shootout done on the same car, same dyno, same day and operated by those that run audiworld. Fuel tanks were drained and fuel type was controlled.

On another note, we are one of the few that consistently posts gains such as this here on healthy cars:

Chart stolen from another audizine member

Adjusting the pedal with others are not seems to be smoke and mirrors to me. When a large amount of the B6 community is concerned with gas mileage I don't see how making the throttle open quicker than they demand would be helpful. This is the same principle Audi used with the 1.8t, they crack the throttle more than you ask for to make the little 1.8t feel stronger down low and boost a little quicker. But luckily for them the 1.8t gets way better gas mileage.

These 4.2l motors have a lot of cool mechanical features that could be maximized in the tune other than cracking the throttle earlier.


Interesting that you will admit the throttle being opened more (basically proving Justin correct in his observations), and then rebute the other two items. You could have gave us some more technical feedback, like the AFR and commanded timing in that tune instead of some random dyno sheet that could be from any car with any tune.

Maybe you did win the shootout, but you have won other shootouts with the B5 platform and then your customers never even remotely as well. Why? Well, can I go on your site and buy the File from the B5 S4 that was on the Eurotuner GP winner in 06??? NOPE.

Until you brings us real technical information, then don't bother arguing your point with dyno sheets.


Not bashing you, I just think you stuck your foot in your mouth and Justin obviously has done his homework and put a lot of time into this without falling for cool looking dyno graphs or shiny pamphlets.

[Justincredible]

First the uni cars I saw did have a much higher REV limit then 6400. Here is a quote from a current member with the uni chip

Going to try Unitronic software for the S4 today

Well got it chipped and I definitely can feel a difference in the throttle response and the car seems to pull much harder and smoother to the new 7600-7800 rpm limit.

My logs and other reviews continue to back this up. This dose not mean that ANY of these chips are bad. This is only meant to help inform you as to what is out there.

When I was looking to get a chip for my car there was SOOOOO much misinformation out there. This guy loves his chip this guy thought it was a waste of money. This guy claims that his car is transformed. But i never saw anything to show there was a transformation.

**** I would not consider the above comment by the broker misinformation. But there is others that didn't share this same feeling and those that did get the feeling. I wanted to see if it was real or just smoke and mirrors*****

Remember there are some that don't care if there car is faster they are just looking into getting a chip that will make the driving experience more exciting. Uni definitely works to give that to you. But there is a large section of us that are solely getting the chip for performance and not dyno performance or smoke and mirrors performance. REAL car acceleration performance. All the chips are better than stock. But I was that guy looking for the best chip for my money. This is why I did all the testing. I can't afford to throw away ANY money let alone 500$. All the chips have there own way of changing your driving experience. The idea is for each to take the info and decide witch one is for them

Some people make them selves think there is a gain after spending 500$ or 200$ for that matter on performance parts. People make them self believe that they spent there money well. When in fact there is or was no gain. We see this all the time with false advertising. Ive seen chip companies say they Get XXX amount of HP only to have small print that tells you that you need exhaust and open element (or what ever this was a example) to get this gain.

For every chip I tested there was a customer that loves that tune and company and then there was those that think they got ripped off.

I explained in the wright up how I got the info on the chips. Let me touch on a few points.

1 to get a real look at how the chip works with the car you need to have that chip in and running for several miles. Some say 10 miles some say as much as 100miles. I didn't put any of them in my car because I feel as a consumer I should be well informed about a product before I purchase it. I don't think is is right to go get say an open element filter and say well that didn't really help so I am going to return it. A educated consumer (properly educated consumer is the best customer)

2 I want real feed back from the people that have had the chips for a while. Everyone loves a new dog. Give it a few months and they will tell you what they really think about the dog. Some of the best info came from the customers them selves. Some told me to not waste money like they did on there chip from xx company. Others loved it and were all about ready to take me to a dealer that day so I could get one.

If you are asking My advice. The best chip for your money is a good set of Dp's and a cat back exhaust. A chip shouldn't be the first thing you do it should be one of the last. That's if you are asking my opinion

[37doc]

Sorry have to chime in here, first of all A for effort, however I think all your typing was a HUGE waste of time.... The numbers, 13,4,?,?. 13 cars, 4 chips, unknown number of dynos, unknown specific day ambient conditions, and track comparisons ? absolutely useless, as every driver performs at different levels. What is this post supposed to mean? Wow is all I can say, how much time did you waste compiling this "report" LOL.

P.S. look up "control group"

[Justincredible]

Sorry have to chime in here, first of all A for effort, however I think all your typing was a HUGE waste of time.... The numbers, 13,4,?,?. 13 cars, 4 chips, unknown number of dynos, unknown specific day ambient conditions, and track comparisons ? absolutely useless, as every driver performs at different levels. What is this post supposed to mean? Wow is all I can say, how much time did you waste compiling this "report" LOL.

P.S. look up "control group"

LOL LOL LOL

Sure because any of what you mentioned. such as specific day ambient conditions or driver level or track conditions effects the

Test 1
the throttle Vs. pedal position
or
test 3
The air fuel
or
test 4
Rev limit

you can argue that timing is effected. But Ive also logged my car every step of the Way and have never seen a global change for any of the reasons you listed.

I totally respect your opinion and thought on this. That's why i only posted the test info for things that are not going to be effected by out side conditions.

[91gl]

Sorry have to chime in here, first of all A for effort, however I think all your typing was a HUGE waste of time.... The numbers, 13,4,?,?. 13 cars, 4 chips, unknown number of dynos, unknown specific day ambient conditions, and track comparisons ? absolutely useless, as every driver performs at different levels. What is this post supposed to mean? Wow is all I can say, how much time did you waste compiling this "report" LOL.

P.S. look up "control group"

Please, I'm sick of the whole ambient temp/track comparison arguments. Everyone is going race their car under the best conditions and circumstances in order to achieve the best possible time. I heard a lot shit talking when I did my 13.3 because I did it at Englishtown, a Sea-level track. Why the hell would i sacrifice my times to run at some track high above sea level where my car obviously wouldnt run it's best. And you can't tell me that the circumstances are not "real world" since where I live, I rarely drive anywhere where the land raises anymore than 200 feet above the level of the sea.

Another BS argument I heard was that I did my run on a 50 degree day, and that as well is not "real world". How the hell is someone going to tell me that running on a cold day is not real world when I spend the same amount of time per year driving in cool weather as I do in warm weather? I am trying to test the abilities of what my car CAN do not what it can not.

As for dyno's that is a different story, they are different and all vary. But what does any of that have to do with his chip comparison? Logging is done on the street with a laptop and a VAGCOM. No dyno neaded. And he went above and beyond the usual "butt dyno" comparisons thus making your whole little rant, the real waste of time. All I see is that someone is bitter that their 500 bones went towards a chip that basically developed as an afterthought and you are just trying to make all the info presented in this thread irrelevant.

[DuncanC]

Sorry have to chime in here, first of all A for effort, however I think all your typing was a HUGE waste of time.... The numbers, 13,4,?,?. 13 cars, 4 chips, unknown number of dynos, unknown specific day ambient conditions, and track comparisons ? absolutely useless, as every driver performs at different levels. What is this post supposed to mean? Wow is all I can say, how much time did you waste compiling this "report" LOL.

P.S. look up "control group"

37Doc You are a moron, Thank you for contributing nothing useful at all. Did you even understand what you had read before posting your negative comments? Where in his report did Driver performance come into play? You feel the driver was as dumb as your self and unable to push the pedal until it hit a plastic tube? What Justincredable set out to determine was what changes the chip was making that were affecting how the car would performed. At no point did he comment on the relative performance level of the chips.

P.S. Please try to understand the subject matter you comment on in the future before opening your mouth.

To Justincredible thank you Very Very much for putting the effort into doing all this research and taking the time to post such a detailed write up. A chip was one of the things I have considered adding to my car but like you I wasn't going to dump $500 on something that half the owners of seems to think was a complete waste of money. After search high and low I couldn't find any real quantifiable data on what exactly these chips were doing to your engine. You have given me exactly the info I needed, I won't be wasting my money unless I supercharge down the road and need it. I'm running a BMC Filter (already ran them on both my bikes so why not). I am planning to do a FI fullback as soon as the Canadian exchange goes back to a reasonable level but without your detailed information I probably would have wasted my money on a chip shortly after that.

Thanks Again!

[Justincredible]

No guys thank you seriously.

I expected several people to get on there soap box and try to tell us how IF THEY DIDN"T DO ALL THIS TESTING THIS DOSN"T COUNT You can always try to do more but some people have this do nothing at all and complain about everything mentality. If we listened to them we would never get ahead.

But for those of us that are here to try and help others and to help our selves, I thought this would be very important to share. I know there are several guys like me that just want to know what we are getting for our money.

This post has gotten even one of the tuning companies to tune in and say something. HOW AWESOME is that. Not only that but they confirmed what I was saying about the pedal. I want to take a sec because I might have been to harsh in my responce to them. But lets take this time to make a good point for them

Ok l know they didn't like to see that they were not the top chip out of the group. They actually for the street test and actual performance wise they were last.
As for the pump program they don't leave anything on the table....this is so they can sell you the RACE gas program they have. I mean WHY would you make your pump gas program super aggressive if you have a race gas program??? I would think that the GIAC race gas program would be VERY aggressive.

Once again this is not for me as I want my chip to have a little left in it so if I do get some good gas my car will make the most out of it.

In the end there is always going to be those that just think there way and they don't want to believe that there is a better way or that tring something new is not a waste of time. For those people this is not the post for them.

Any one can come on here and question what they want. All I ask is don't question my attempt to share info based off my hard work to get the most from our cars. This chip testing was just 1 of several things I have tested on my car. For example I have had 4 count them 4 different sets or variations of DP's on my car so I could end up with the best ones for me.

In the future for those of you that don't like what I have done try to not spend more time telling me what I did wrong then you do telling us what you have done right and what THAT is going to do to help us.

And lastly for the grammar police that are bound to step in
I came here from germany, in the 6th grade I could not read or wright a lick of English. I am now a 100% American citizen with no accent who proudly pays my taxes and is proud of it. Many people have helped me get to where I am today. I might not always put the right punctuation but I am working to get better

[Alipor]

Adjusting the pedal with others are not seems to be smoke and mirrors to me. When a large amount of the B6 community is concerned with gas mileage I don't see how making the throttle open quicker than they demand would be helpful. This is the same principle Audi used with the 1.8t, they crack the throttle more than you ask for to make the little 1.8t feel stronger down low and boost a little quicker. But luckily for them the 1.8t gets way better gas mileage.

These 4.2l motors have a lot of cool mechanical features that could be maximized in the tune other than cracking the throttle earlier.


Interesting that you will admit the throttle being opened more (basically proving Justin correct in his observations), and then rebute the other two items. You could have gave us some more technical feedback, like the AFR and commanded timing in that tune instead of some random dyno sheet that could be from any car with any tune.

Maybe you did win the shootout, but you have won other shootouts with the B5 platform and then your customers never even remotely as well. Why? Well, can I go on your site and buy the File from the B5 S4 that was on the Eurotuner GP winner in 06??? NOPE.

Until you brings us real technical information, then don't bother arguing your point with dyno sheets.


Not bashing you, I just think you stuck your foot in your mouth and Justin obviously has done his homework and put a lot of time into this without falling for cool looking dyno graphs or shiny pamphlets.

Actually That is my car, I have been running the GIAC chip for over 100k. That was my stock S4 with no mods. Just a quarter tank of 93 at KTR in Ayre Mass.

[rayveedub]

nevermind. this is futile.

[Monchichi8]

Thanks sorry for not answering your question first.. The Hang up has been called several things or referred to in different fashions. The hang up is still there it is just shifted up a bit. Mileage can be better but from what I have seen if you want to get the 3 things sorted out. Best to start with hardware first.

Getting the exhaust and the Dp's is going to help all of the chips perform better and HELP eliminate some of the issues that can make the stock car so bothersome

Thanks again, I'll start looking for down pipes first.

[b00st]

excellent right up.

nothing i didn't say in the past through
with my experiments in runs.

[Justincredible]

interesting. the rs4 factory software has several variants to it. so chances are you never tested equal platforms. also i know with unitronic the software is always pushed and retuned until perfection is achieved, so there is little chance you tested the latest and greatest. personally ive worked with unitronic many times to pull more power and increase reliablitly in all the cars we chip. honestly your info seems shady at best to me. If you had some dynos, some logs,acceleration times, and maybe some info on the cars and there respective tuner (chip installer) i would be more likely to think your credible. i am able to view the cars running unitronic and am really curious as to which uni tuned rs4 you had the pleasure of driving. i know with the cars weve flashed both the rs4's and s4's results are awesome. I have yet to hear a customer complaint, only praise and we have flashed the unitronic software on several s and rs cars. also i have yet hear complaints about poor fuel mileage with unitronics. i really hope people dont put faith into your post or findings. its obvious your far from a experienced professional in anything automotive related, especially the field of ecm tuning. get some factual data. rent a dyno and go at it. im really not trying to bash you but seriously by your logic, if it dosent look near stock on vag com it dosent work......just my two cents.

WOW First try reading the ENTIRE post I did.

Lets talk about Shady and credible for a sec.

Im selling nothing. My info has been backed by customers and GIAC themselves explaining info I found.

Not only that, but you are tring to tell the people.

its obvious your far from a experienced professional in anything automotive related, especially the field of ecm tuning.

When one of your refrences was about the RS4. Let me help you out. RS4 uses 2 ECU's and runs off the Me9 platform. The B6 S4 uses 1 ECU and runs off the Me7.1 platform. Go try to sell your B.S. to some one else. Perhaps you should get up to speed on the systems you are Claiming you are using before you talk out loud.

I made this post to Stop people like you from spewing your self hyped propaganda. The info I provided is fact and it is all stuff that PEOPLE need to know so the know exactly what they are paying for.

also i know with unitronic the software is always pushed and retuned until perfection is achieved, so there is little chance you tested the latest and greatest. personally ive worked with unitronic many times to pull more power and increase reliablitly in all the cars we chip..

In the future you should wait more then 2 sentances before you contradict your self.....

YOU are a Uni dealer there is NO bias there what so ever.

There are GREAT things about all the chips I tested and I tried to show that. Uni chips have some great things about them.

Lets Bottom line this

You Are a UNI dealer your here to sell a product

Im here to sell the TRUTH, sorry if my product undermines your agenda.

******** I am in the hosptial right now recovering from sergery so I know there are 100 spelling issues Sorry ******************

[dextrek]

I came here from germany, in the 6th grade I could not read or wright a lick of English.

Wright = write
This is a nice wright up Justincredible.

Some people factor in the customer service, cruise control device, higher boost level, yati yata...when picking up a chip, it all comes down to one or in this case 2 things, who's faster and more reliable? Sure dyno and charts tell the #'s, but it means nothing until you see it in the streets. This might sound ignorant coming from a non-tech's perspective, but justincredible's wright up is just that and he answered "How each chip translates its power to the asphalt." (he concluded by recommending Dp and mufflers...well said.)

From personal experiences, my friend went from APR to GIAC thinking that it was more aggresive and faster according to the charts and word of mouth, but his best quarter mile time came from APR. Or seeing a beeefed up Camero at the track with 300 horses running mid 14's? Numbers just don't do the justice. races do.

[Captain Insano]

LOL... You are such a hypocrite. You tell justincredible to post some factual info, but you don't post any factual info yourself. Some BS comments on how nobody has ever complained to you about the chips you've installed are not factual or useful here.

So where are your facts? At least he did some logging. You've provided absolutely nothing to this thread but some BS.

To describe how I feel about your post I will use a quote straight from you... "i really hope people dont put faith into your post or findings"....

interesting. the rs4 factory software has several variants to it. so chances are you never tested equal platforms. also i know with unitronic the software is always pushed and retuned until perfection is achieved, so there is little chance you tested the latest and greatest. personally ive worked with unitronic many times to pull more power and increase reliablitly in all the cars we chip. honestly your info seems shady at best to me. If you had some dynos, some logs,acceleration times, and maybe some info on the cars and there respective tuner (chip installer) i would be more likely to think your credible. i am able to view the cars running unitronic and am really curious as to which uni tuned rs4 you had the pleasure of driving. i know with the cars weve flashed both the rs4's and s4's results are awesome. I have yet to hear a customer complaint, only praise and we have flashed the unitronic software on several s and rs cars. also i have yet hear complaints about poor fuel mileage with unitronics. i really hope people dont put faith into your post or findings. its obvious your far from a experienced professional in anything automotive related, especially the field of ecm tuning. get some factual data. rent a dyno and go at it. im really not trying to bash you but seriously by your logic, if it dosent look near stock on vag com it dosent work......just my two cents.

[rayveedub]

im staying out of this.

[DuncanC]

Why is the world full of idiots? This guy wants to contribute to the forum his opinion on what he has personally learned over the past year of researching our various chip options. He did IT at NO CHARGE to you.. If you don't feel it was useful great, Move on. I felt it was useful, I'd move for more people to take time out of their day to post up something useful like that. But who is going to post something knowing a bunch of idiots will knock it? By discouraging people from posting up anything but absolute hard provable repeatable data you are limiting the amount of useful information i will find on this forum. In my eyes that makes you and the other idiots that rag on this thread BIG DOUCHES. Honestly, the guy admits to being an immigrant and that English isn't his first language but the post he put up was 100x more readable and 1000x more useful than that shit you posted. So whats your excuse?

Shops I deal with:
FI Exhaust - Great product Danny
TM Tuning - Fast shipping, great price
ECS Tuning - Great customer service
VF!! VF! VF! THANK YOU VF! (Get that S/C out of beta)

Shops I feel are a bunch of idiots who shouldn't have bothered posting something completely useless:
RAI Motorsports

[EYE4SPEED]

Thank you for the excellent info and I'm glad you explained yourself about the Grammar Gestapo (I'm one of those that are always correcting spelling/grammar errors in my head).

I had the APR tune on my old B6 S4 and enjoyed driving that more than a stock S4. It had a Milltek non-res and a Hyperflow intake too. I tested the same car without the mods and could notice a difference. It might not proven with numbers, but all I can say is that I enjoyed driving the car with the tune more.

You mentioned that you did research on the DP's. What is your recommendation? I'm thinking about going this route instead of a flash (until my car is out of warranty).

Thanks again for your hard work.

[Monchichi8]

Why is the world full of idiots? This guy wants to contribute to the forum his opinion on what he has personally learned over the past year of researching our various chip options. He did IT at NO CHARGE to you.. If you don't feel it was useful great, Move on. I felt it was useful, I'd move for more people to take time out of their day to post up something useful like that. But who is going to post something knowing a bunch of idiots will knock it? By discouraging people from posting up anything but absolute hard provable repeatable data you are limiting the amount of useful information i will find on this forum. In my eyes that makes you and the other idiots that rag on this thread BIG DOUCHES. Honestly, the guy admits to being an immigrant and that English isn't his first language but the post he put up was 100x more readable and 1000x more useful than that shit you posted. So whats your excuse?

Shops I deal with:
FI Exhaust - Great product Danny
TM Tuning - Fast shipping, great price
ECS Tuning - Great customer service
VF!! VF! VF! THANK YOU VF! (Get that S/C out of beta)

Shops I feel are a bunch of idiots who shouldn't have bothered posting something completely useless:
RAI Motorsports

This made me laugh! Thanks, and thanks to Justincredible for taking time out of his day to share with the rest of us his findings! I found the info very helpful as I am sure alot of other did also...Great write up!

[37doc]

You gentlemen are so right i appologize for my negativity. Thanks to Justincredible for wasting , or um I mean taking his time to post this glorious thread. ROFLOFL.................

[C4RL_S4]

Care to post the logs? The lambda for the GIAC software should not be "stockish"

Have you read the article here: http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/b6d.../content.shtml. There was a dyno shootout done on the same car, same dyno, same day and operated by those that run audiworld. Fuel tanks were drained and fuel type was controlled.

Ummm ... Have YOU read the article? The only car that was tested with an APR chip had a clogged fuel filter!

Also, APR offers ALL of its programs (pump gas, valet, stock, anti-theft) for $599. The GIAC chip requires you to purchase each program seperately. And the APR chip allows for switching using the cruise control.

My only reservation about the APR chip was the fact that I hadn't read any positive reviews. Until now.

Thanks Justincredible!

[Justincredible]

I say this again to all you guys thanks for taking the time to both read and really look at what I have done.

So after this I have still been helping people with there cars and continuing to look at all the tunes out there.

In the end it really dose come down to this. Chips should be the last place you really look for power. There is power there sure. But from the look of it some are really tring to push timing at the car then others are trying to make the car FEEL faster. In the end there is a lot of work going into trying to get the car to make more power. IMHO and continued testing. THE BEST chip for you car is still a good set of Dp's and cat back. From there the car is able to make more power right out the box.

I did this test a few weeks ago. Take a 100% stock car. Log the timing then pull the Pre cat out (piggies) then RE LOG the timing.....You just got a free chip. The car will almost always eat more timing no need for a chip. Why force the car to eat the timing. Put parts on the car that will let the car want to let you get more timing/performance. Or why force the car to try and make more power. Just put on the parts that let the car make more power

[PSYC0TIC ONE]

Justin, awesome write-up... I was thinking of getting a chip shortly after my warranty ran out but, looks like I'll be headed a different route...

[KryptoniK]

Wow amazing write up!! Thanks for taking the time to test out all these factors in multiple tunes. Very useful information.

One thing I might add about REVO. Their revo select unit has a great security feature that disables the electronic throttle at the flip of a switch and plug into the OBDII port. Thieves might be able to break in and start the car (if possible), but they wont be able to go anywhere with the pedal being completely dead.

[Bravest NY S4]

You tha man Justin, good research!!!!........................AGAIN!

[mioStile]

I just want to throw out a personal thank you to Justincredible - best threads this forum has ever seen. Truly.

[crafty]

Agreed, nice thread! I have GIAC (based in large part based on the AW part II shootout damnit). I wanted to get APR (because I get everything for the same price AND because I could use the stalk switch to change it vs. the ross-tech cable and my laptop to change GIAC), but no dealer close by, and GIAC was supposedly better, so I figured screw the price and convenience, performance was my top priority. Now I read that I didn't even get that (and my butt dyno agreed, I have posted previously on my thoughts with my GIAC vs. FB exhaust, and have 3 Mustang dynos giving evidence of limited use because of other factors effecting the readings from one run to the next).

Did you ever get any readings from the OCT chip? I have read several people's opinions that the OCT is the chip to have (assuming you are set on chipping), but seeing the above tests on the OCT would be good info!

P.S. I am still happy with my GIAC... getting rid of the rev limiter alone was worth the cost of admission (even if going past 6400 is stupid for power, it sure does sound good, and I am not worried about time slips on the street :)). My throttle is a bit too touchy for my liking tho, and now I know why!!

[mcimiluca]

i had apr on my last car and enjoyed it. i have heard not to great things about revos tuning from a few other members. maybe i will be sticking with apr again. being able to change the programs through the cruise control is a huge plus for me. ill have to do a apr trial to really make my decision

[KerberosVDT]

Two big thumbs up for you Justin!

You really are incredible. Many thanks to you man! This is probably one of the most informative, useful, and unbiased posts I have ever read. I'll be looking forward to reading your future posts. I think I'll take the time to read some of your previous one's as well, since I'm new to Audizine.

Take care!