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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings Numbersix's Avatar
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    VW admits to 1.8T sludge issues

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    Any service writer at a VW or Audi dealer will tell you this problem has existed for years. Nice of VW/Audi to finally fess up publicly.

    Maybe my noisy lifters will get replaced by VWoA now?

    From automotive news:

    DETROIT - In the latest example of Volkswagen of America Inc.'s quality woes, the automaker is warning 426,000 VW Passat and Audi A4 owners of an engine oil sludge problem.

    Affected are 1.8-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engines on 1998 to 2004 Passats and 1997 to 2004 A4s. VW won't say how many engines have been replaced or repaired, or what it is spending to fix the problem.

    Owners began receiving letters from VWoA this month. Remedies range from extending warranties to covering repair costs. That includes replacing engines.

    Sludge buildup causes engine performance to deteriorate. In extreme cases, sludge can cause engines to seize.

    The timing couldn't be worse. VW Division has old products, and sales are down 11.5 percent for the first seven months compared with the year-ago period. And it has only been a year since VW voluntarily recalled more than 500,000 vehicles because of faulty engine ignition coils.

    VW is not alone in grappling with engine oil sludge complaints. Last week the Center for Auto Safety in Washington demanded that the Chrysler group fix sludge problems and extend warranties on 2.7-liter V-6 engines in its 1998 to 2002 vehicles.

    Confirming that VW has received "numerous reports of problems," VWoA spokesman Tony Fouladpour said that VW is extending factory warranties from five years to eight years. Warranties are transferable.

    Changes for '05

    VW is requiring its dealers to use synthetic oil and a larger oil filter in the 2005 Passat and A4. Some 2005 A4s are in dealerships. The 2005 Passat will arrive in October.

    A National Highway Traffic Safety Administration source said the agency has had 12 to 15 sludge complaints for 2000 to 2004 Passats and A4s. One complaint was about an engine seizure.

    VWoA will pay the cost of replacing an engine. For example, an independent repair shop in Tennessee that just replaced a sludge-damaged engine in a 1999 Passat charged the customer $2,500. Of that, $1,400 was for labor. The customer would be eligible for a reimbursement if he can show that he was having the oil changed as recommended.

    VW dealers are seeing the problem mostly with owners who don't follow the recommended oil change intervals, said Gene Langan, of Gene Langan Volkswagen Inc. in Glastonbury, Conn.

    "I've seen a few cases," he said. "It seems to happen mostly when we can't verify oil change history, when people don't do them for 20,000 miles. I think that this is a problem that is pretty broad in the industry right now."

    VW owners will pay more for an oil change with synthetic oil, Langan said. An oil change with regular oil costs about $30, he said. It's about $65 with synthetic oil.

    In its letter to Passat and A4 owners, VW says that it will cover necessary engine repairs if oil sludge causes a problem and the vehicle owner could provide proof of oil changes. Oil changes would have to be according to VW-recommended maintenance schedules. VW recommends that oil be changed at 5,000 miles or six months.

    How it occurs

    The letter states that engine oil sludge occurs when old, dirty engine oil thickens and cannot continue to provide correct lubrication. It says the condition occurs primarily when the engine is operated at oil change intervals beyond those prescribed in the owner's manual.

    Fouladpour said VW decided to contact owners after studying the oil sludge problem that Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. faced two years ago.

    Toyota in April 2002 notified 3.3 million owners of 1997 to 2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles with certain V-6 and four-cylinder engines that it would pay for sludge-related repairs for eight years from date of purchase. At the time, Toyota said that it had received about 3,400 sludge-related complaints.

    "We looked at that and learned from their experience," Fouladpour said.

    VW builds most of its 1.8 T engines at its Gyor, Hungary, engine plant.
    ...be seeing you.
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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings JMG's Avatar
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    i got the letter weeks ago. I've been using synthetic for quite some time. Are they going to reimburse me?
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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings Silvant's Avatar
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    weird.. i never got one.
    i have gone synthetic every 3thousand miles since i've had the car.
    Mr. Inappropriate Porno Avatar Man.
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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings littlewhite's Avatar
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    Hm... is that why I got letter "what engine oil" to use for my 1.8T
    Littlewhite

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Two Rings 0000_a4's Avatar
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    My buddy did mine this weekend who works for Audi Dealership. He dealt with this problem with a lot of customers complaining the same thing. When he heard my engine or my lifters he knew what was wrong with it and had it done at his garage.
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  6. #6
    Forum Moderator Four Rings Daft's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 0000_a4
    My buddy did mine this weekend who works for Audi Dealership. He dealt with this problem with a lot of customers complaining the same thing. When he heard my engine or my lifters he knew what was wrong with it and had it done at his garage.

    What exactly does "done" mean?

    New lifters? New head? New valves?


    Basically, this sounds like another loophole from VoA. Unless you have:

    1. A warranty

    or

    2. Paid out the ass to have Audi change your oil every 3K.

    You're not getting anything for free. If your car is out of warranty, chances are that you've done your oil changes yourself. Even if you had it done at a local oil change shop, VoA might not honor the records.

    It's a sad attempt at fixing a problem.
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  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Hmmm...still haven't received my letter yet. I guess they must be sent in batches according the VIN number.

    I find it interesting that according to the article, "VW recommends that oil be changed at 5,000 miles or six months." However, in my 2001 owner's manual, the recommended oil change interval is 10,000 miles. I wonder how VoA or AoA will try to reconcile that...and the fact that their dealerships were using dino, not synthetic, for the oil changes prior to this notice.
    Last edited by awl18; 08-30-2004 at 01:42 PM.
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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4 in SC's Avatar
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    I haven't received a letter yet, either. I kinda' suspect that I won't.

    I agree- another attempt at 'too little, too late' to me. Of course, I have the noisy lifters, and have tried different weight oils too. Nothing really helps...short of having the lifters replaced...

    Mike

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4_Andre's Avatar
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    i hope i get a letter and they replace sh!t

  10. #10
    Registered Member One Ring blk1.8Tquattro's Avatar
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    My car was just bought a week and a half ago audi certified and on the way home the oil pressure light went on, the next day it was in a diff audi dealer(closer to home) and has been there since. I guess the parts they need are backordered due to a large number of problems. In the meatime they are doing a thourough cleaning until they get the parts in. They said it was the oil sludge problem.
    2001.5 1.8TQM Brilliant Black, Bose, Sport Wheel, Xenon, Passport 8500 x50

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings rlebwohl's Avatar
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    I havent got the letter yet either
    ROB
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Originally posted by Numbersix
    "The customer would be eligible for a reimbursement if he can show that he was having the oil changed as recommended."
    This is the key point here. Most people will not be able to meet the stringent paperwork requirements and will be denied. Like Daft said, it's a sad attempt at fixing a problem.
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings Silvant's Avatar
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    this is bs.
    i remember when i first purchased my avant. first off, i changed the oil at 3k before even my first interval of 5k...
    then during the warrenty changes, they would make me purchase synthetic for the interval changes. really pissed me off.
    i have changed my oil every 3k for the 62k miles of the cars life and have one of the noisiest 1.8's around in my opinion.
    Mr. Inappropriate Porno Avatar Man.
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  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings alen's Avatar
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    i haven't received the letter yet. i bought this car two months ago from an owner that did oil changes at regular intervals. i doubt that he has "all" the paperwork or that i might be able to contact him at all; irregardless, yes, this is a sad attempt to dignify their name when in truth, if i went to a dealership with my 55k a4, they would probably laugh at me.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    So people that bought these cars second hand are totally screwed?

    Mine has 65k on it and I don't hear any ticking. What can I do to prevent this? Use syn? Run the "Gunk" through at every oil change?
    Sigless...

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings alen's Avatar
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    how would you run it through?

  17. #17
    Deactivated Four Rings derek2079's Avatar
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    they sell stuff to clean it

  18. #18
    Established Member Two Rings Numbersix's Avatar
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    Apparently, the Bilstein R-2000 Engine Flush system is fairly effective at removing built up sludge.



    1. Heated Bilstein R-2000 Engine Flush solution is pumped through the oil filter port at 42 PSI.

    2. R-2000 Engine Flush solution flows through the engine's lubrication system dissolving sludge and varnish.

    3. R-2000 Engine Flush solution back flushes the oil pump pickup screen. Dissolved sludge, varnish and debris flow to the oil pan where it is vacuum extracted to the BILSTEIN R-2000 Engine Flush Machine. Particulates over 3 microns are removed through three stages of ultra-fine filtration.
    ...be seeing you.
    bucket

  19. #19
    Senior Member Three Rings Thrawn's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 0000_a4
    My buddy did mine this weekend who works for Audi Dealership. He dealt with this problem with a lot of customers complaining the same thing. When he heard my engine or my lifters he knew what was wrong with it and had it done at his garage.
    Please elaborate...
    "You don't know me, and you don't know my style..."

  20. #20
    Registered Member Four Rings joeya103's Avatar
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    anyone know where i can go to get my engine flushed? my car is pretty loud and it's not just from the exhaust either!

    that being said, i think i'll change to oil changes every 3000 even with synthetic, instead of the usual 5000. grrrr...

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Maybe I need to read the article again, but I'm not seeing how this is VWoA's problem. They're claiming that in the majority of the cases the owners were not changing the oil at the appropriate intervals. Apparently these people have forgotten that you are supposed to change your oil every 3k miles. (non-synth. users). I do not believe any warranty should cover anyone who does not do proper maintenance on the car. I mean, they mention people not changing their oil for 20,000 miles...if you're doing that, I'm sorry, but you deserve to have the car die on you.

    anyone know where i can go to get my engine flushed?
    I don't know if you guys have any "Uncle Ed's Oil Shoppes" in your area, but I do know they do the bilstein engine flush. However, I cannot comment on their service as I have never takin my car their.
    Last edited by risc427; 08-31-2004 at 05:23 AM.

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings alen's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by risc427
    [B]Maybe I need to read the article again, but I'm not seeing how this is VWoA's problem. They're claiming that in the majority of the cases the owners were not changing the oil at the appropriate intervals. Apparently these people have forgotten that you are supposed to change your oil every 3k miles. (non-synth. users). I do not believe any warranty should cover anyone who does not do proper maintenance on the car. I mean, they mention people not changing their oil for 20,000 miles...if you're doing that, I'm sorry, but you deserve to have the car die on you.

    so how about those who have changed it every 3000-5000 miles w/ fully synthetic? do they have to worry about this oil sludge problem.


    and just to be on the safe side, where can you get one of those oil flushes (i.e. bilstein)?

    alen

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    I wouldn't think so. Knock on wood, but I'm at 72,000, changing at regular intervals using synthetic. I'm the second owner of the car and know that the previous owner did not use synthetic. However, they did change the oil regularly. So far I have not seen/noticed any problems.

    Based on the original posted article it doesn't sound like anyone that has changed the oil properly has had problems.

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Three Rings cbass's Avatar
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    OK, I just got off the phone with Audi Customer Care after having sent them an email yesterday. They called and they are staying pretty firm with the fact that you must have proof that regular oil changes have been done for the life of the car to receive any kind of reimbursement.

    I fully agree with what most of you have said already, Audi is just doing too little too late. Personally I think it's a joke that they would not offer some kind of better resolution to this issue. But hey, what do you do, right?

    BTW, as far as I know, my car is one that HAS had the problems even with the oil being changed regularly. I am the second owner, however, but I did buy it from somebody I know, and he swears he always had the maintenance done on the car. (It was not done at a dealer after the warranty ran out, so he doesn't have any of the records of that time period.).

    The sludge will get in there and clog your oil pump, screwing it up. The clicking usually happens from sludge getting lodged in a oil pipe towards the top of the engine. Then the pump has to work harder, and it gets clogged up and you get clicking. I replaced my oil pump and haven't had problems since. Just as I did before I had the pump replaced, I continue to use synthetic and change it every 5000 miles.
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  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Here is what my audi mechanic told me!

    For the last 2 weeks, they replaced 15 engine in the A4s. What they do is just replace the complete engine and turbo. This ranged from cars with 50k to cars with over 100k. He also told me that audi extended the warranty on the 1.8t to 8yrs/150k miles. He told me that if you get a low oil pressure light that it's that problem, and that they wil replace the engine/turbo. Another symptom is ticking at idle and at high rpms.

  26. #26
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Originally posted by cbass
    The sludge will get in there and clog your oil pump, screwing it up. The clicking usually happens from sludge getting lodged in a oil pipe towards the top of the engine. Then the pump has to work harder, and it gets clogged up and you get clicking. I replaced my oil pump and haven't had problems since. Just as I did before I had the pump replaced, I continue to use synthetic and change it every 5000 miles.
    How much was it to replace the oil pump?
    AWL18
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  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings Ryan S.'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rieger_RS4
    Here is what my audi mechanic told me!

    For the last 2 weeks, they replaced 15 engine in the A4s. What they do is just replace the complete engine and turbo. This ranged from cars with 50k to cars with over 100k. He also told me that audi extended the warranty on the 1.8t to 8yrs/150k miles. He told me that if you get a low oil pressure light that it's that problem, and that they wil replace the engine/turbo. Another symptom is ticking at idle and at high rpms.
    did they extend the warranty on the whole car or just the motor? and is this warranty transferable? My extended just ran out, so this would be awesome if it covered the whole car and was transferable. by the way i drive a 98.5 1.8T.
    God Bless America!

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Originally posted by Frank S.
    did they extend the warranty on the whole car or just the motor? and is this warranty transferable? My extended just ran out, so this would be awesome if it covered the whole car and was transferable. by the way i drive a 98.5 1.8T.
    I believe it's jutthe motor and only if it's the ludge problem. There is no point of them covering the whole car till 150k case they would have to replace almost everything by that time!

  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings Ryan S.'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rieger_RS4
    I believe it's jutthe motor and only if it's the ludge problem. There is no point of them covering the whole car till 150k case they would have to replace almost everything by that time!
    true true, just needed some clarifacation
    God Bless America!

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    BTW, as far as I know, my car is one that HAS had the problems even with the oil being changed regularly. I am the second owner, however, but I did buy it from somebody I know, and he swears he always had the maintenance done on the car. (It was not done at a dealer after the warranty ran out, so he doesn't have any of the records of that time period.).
    For the benefit of myself and others, may I ask how you know that this is happening to your car?

  31. #31
    Registered Member One Ring blk1.8Tquattro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by blk1.8Tquattro
    My car was just bought a week and a half ago audi certified and on the way home the oil pressure light went on, the next day it was in a diff audi dealer(closer to home) and has been there since. I guess the parts they need are backordered due to a large number of problems. In the meatime they are doing a thourough cleaning until they get the parts in. They said it was the oil sludge problem.
    They finished cleaning everything up and tested it out and still had low pressure. They are going to try some other cleaning methods. What plan of action should I take with the dealer I bought the car from? I know I am going to call AoA. Just wondering if i will be able to get some sort of written agreement from the dealer that I will never have to pay a dime to correct this problem i.e. new engine in 10,000 miles or so. SO fed up right now.
    2001.5 1.8TQM Brilliant Black, Bose, Sport Wheel, Xenon, Passport 8500 x50

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Three Rings cbass's Avatar
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    For the benefit of myself and others, may I ask how you know that this is happening to your car?
    You will know by the clicking of the lifters and by your oil pressure warning light coming on intermittently.

    How much was it to replace the oil pump?
    It came to $580 after tax. That is including everything, i.e. llabor and parts.

    The dealer here wanted around $850.
    "An expert is somebody who learns more and more about less and less until one day they know absolutely everything about nothing."
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  33. #33
    Registered Member Two Rings
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    Hey guys,
    another low cost option to get rid of oil sludge is auto-rx.
    www.Auto-Rx.com
    I'm trying it out right now on my 98.5 with noisy lifters. I'm about 100 miles through the first cleaning. I'll let you guys know the results in a couple of months...Its a very slow process, but thats a good thing. Lots of passat owners on ClubB5 have reported great results with the stuff so I decided to give it a shot. Also they bobistheoilguy says it works...I'm usually very suspicious about oil additives. Actually, I have never and will never use conventional oil additives like slick 50 or whatever, but this stuff supposedly works. You can read more about it...
    www.bobistheoilguy.com
    http://www.auto-rx.com/pages/pov40.htm
    http://www.clubb5.com/forums/viewtop...407e36eff9c417

    Actually, you should search the forums on both bobistheoilguy and clubb5 if you want to hear more about it.
    -Alex

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