low speed rough shifts or is it me...

[Heat00]

just curious as it seems at low speeds this thing shifts really hard and "clunky"... I assume it's just the way the DCT operates and hopefully not anything wrong with my car lol.... never had a car that didn't like low speed as much as this guy hahah....

my scat pack sometimes would have harder shifts from the ZF8, downshifting at lower speeds but nothing like this RS3... when at higher speeds or RPMs it's fine so I guessing it's just how a dual clutch works ? forgive my ignorance here, its just a little annoying sometimes.

[audios3]

like low speed in dynamic or RS modes? Other than driving around letting things warm up in normal auto drive mode I am manual shifting with the paddles 99% of the time, but I dont notice rough or clunky shifts in auto mode.

[AdamSheikh]

The DQ500 doesn't like being cold, and it takes some extra time for it to come up to temp vs. the engine oil. The clutches are programmed to slip more to aid in heating up the fluid. Coupled with the transverse layout and soft engine, trans, and pendulum mounts, there's a decent amount of drivetrain movement and clunkiness in some scenarios.

[Crowlski]

The DQ500 doesn't like being cold, and it takes some extra time for it to come up to temp vs. the engine oil. The clutches are programmed to slip more to aid in heating up the fluid. Coupled with the transverse layout and soft engine, trans, and pendulum mounts, there's a decent amount of drivetrain movement and clunkiness in some scenarios.

Yeah I definitely feel that on cold mornings. The car just simply doesn't want to go. Glad I'm not the only one

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[RS3_by_the_Sea]

I will also say from my experience with other manufacturers' dual clutch transmissions, they have also have a tendency to be clunky when stopping/starting, in stop and go traffic at low speeds, and when cold.

I think that's part of the reason why many luxury/sport manufacturers have switched from them to the ZF8. It has the advantages of a torque converter automatic for daily driving duties but can be programmed to snap off shifts quickly when desired too.

[Heat00]

I will also say from my experience with other manufacturers' dual clutch transmissions, they have also have a tendency to be clunky when stopping/starting, in stop and go traffic at low speeds, and when cold.

I think that's part of the reason why many luxury/sport manufacturers have switched from them to the ZF8. It has the advantages of a torque converter automatic for daily driving duties but can be programmed to snap off shifts quickly when desired too.

yes maybe I didn't explain it in enough detail..... it's more of this as you mention... stop and go traffic and very low speeds is what I'm talking about. it is definitely not a cold issue as I notice this even after driving for an hour and hot as hec here every minute of every day lol... we don't have winter here really... today was low 80's and humid and we're in february LOL... so yea, it was nice and toasty down there and I had been driving for a least an hour straight. guess it's just the way it is

its kind of like the transmission does not like quick starts/stops and unfortunately now down here traffic is terrible so a lot of my day is accelerate, stop, accelerate, stop and besides being annoying in general, it seems the transmission doesnt like this... hard to explain but almost like by the time it engages, it has to disengage too quickly and it seems kind of slow to react in these scenarios if that makes any sense.. you can hear it in a way

[Hollingsworth]

I think it is probably just the nature of the beast. After having driven only manual transmissions for close to 50 yrs, I couldn't stand the transmission in my '21 TT RS when I first got it. I was experiencing a lot of what you are talking about, plus I hated it's logic as to when it chose to change gears.

To remedy the problem, I did a DSG tune, which a lot of TT RS/RS3 owners do. Popular choices are Unitronic, 034, Apr, TVS, etc. I chose TVS. I did a lot of research and read everything I could about about owner's experiences with the different DSG tunes, and am convinced TVS is the best. I am loving my DSG after having tuned it. When it shifts is almost exactly when I would be doing it if it were a manual. Plus. it is way smoother, is not rough when cold, etc. It was a complete game changer.

[NapalmEnema]

I dunno 2022 here, sluggish, sure at start, jerky and such? Haven't really felt. I drive pretty much always performance paddle shifting may be the reason not sure. Wife hasn't reported anything, it's her car and she drives auto all the time.

[DrMerl]

No noticeable clunky or hard-ish shift at low speeds in D while tooling around city streets. S might give some of that depending on your speeds and throttle, it wants to keep the revs up. Only times I really feel a shift is messing around at WOT and manually changing gears at torque peaks (feels like a single clutch shift). I've always had 034 TCU, so maybe I'm missing the fun. I've got the 034 engine/trans mounts, 034 full dog bone, pucks, JXB drive shaft carrier. Still smooth shifting at low speeds. Using all the stiffening bits may give you a vibration on decel when under 3K rpm, you feel it in the seat. Squishy Audi rubber or NVH. I'd recommend getting magnetic drain plugs as an indicator of trouble.

[Heat00]

I think it is probably just the nature of the beast. After having driven only manual transmissions for close to 50 yrs, I couldn't stand the transmission in my '21 TT RS when I first got it. I was experiencing a lot of what you are talking about, plus I hated it's logic as to when it chose to change gears.

To remedy the problem, I did a DSG tune, which a lot of TT RS/RS3 owners do. Popular choices are Unitronic, 034, Apr, TVS, etc. I chose TVS. I did a lot of research and read everything I could about about owner's experiences with the different DSG tunes, and am convinced TVS is the best. I am loving my DSG after having tuned it. When it shifts is almost exactly when I would be doing it if it were a manual. Plus. it is way smoother, is not rough when cold, etc. It was a complete game changer.

interesting and thank you! my hellcat's ZF8 was very different.. maybe not as quick as a DC but it was a lot smoother... agree it's nature of beast and not a big deal I was just curious if it was just me or my car lol....

[Heat00]

No noticeable clunky or hard-ish shift at low speeds in D while tooling around city streets. S might give some of that depending on your speeds and throttle, it wants to keep the revs up. Only times I really feel a shift is messing around at WOT and manually changing gears at torque peaks (feels like a single clutch shift). I've always had 034 TCU, so maybe I'm missing the fun. I've got the 034 engine/trans mounts, 034 full dog bone, pucks, JXB drive shaft carrier. Still smooth shifting at low speeds. Using all the stiffening bits may give you a vibration on decel when under 3K rpm, you feel it in the seat. Squishy Audi rubber or NVH. I'd recommend getting magnetic drain plugs as an indicator of trouble.

thanks. it seems there is nothing wrong and just the way this DC behaves.. guess I'm not used to it.

I also compare it to my son's M2 and the M2 is a lot smoother as well. it does not behave like this even at low speeds. It also the opposite, it's not when in rs or performance, it's during comfort when I'm in stop and go and have to stop/go quickly, just seems the tranny takes a minute to 'catch up'. during higher speeds or rpms such as RS modes, I don't notice it as it seems this transmission makes easy work of high rpm shifting.

[brobst]

thanks. it seems there is nothing wrong and just the way this DC behaves.. guess I'm not used to it.

I also compare it to my son's M2 and the M2 is a lot smoother as well. it does not behave like this even at low speeds. It also the opposite, it's not when in rs or performance, it's during comfort when I'm in stop and go and have to stop/go quickly, just seems the tranny takes a minute to 'catch up'. during higher speeds or rpms such as RS modes, I don't notice it as it seems this transmission makes easy work of high rpm shifting.

The dct is always looking to preload the next gear so it struggles predicting in stop and go more than normal. If you are driving normally accelerating, its trying to load up the next gear simple. But say your cruising and then you step down initially its trying to fulfill torque. Then the car goes actually this would be better in a lower gear. But maybe it had the higher already preloaded. So its cycling gears basically. Which is why there is a delay. I notice this usually in D as it likes to go to higher gears. Less of a problem in S as rpm logic is different.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[AdamSheikh]

This is more general in nature, but still a good read regardless. Fairly old by now, but largely still applies.

https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/how...ricks.5989734/

[Heat00]

This is more general in nature, but still a good read regardless. Fairly old by now, but largely still applies.

https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/how...ricks.5989734/

wow... this is what I needed... when I get home I am going to read this in detail but from quick review I think this is exactly the issue or perceived issue... it's not the car it's the operator ! I am starting to get the hang of how it operates just by trial and error but this is a very good read (so far). I'll read it all carefully tonight, thank you for sharing this!

so I'm not crazy after all LOL... this is good news

[NapalmEnema]

wow... this is what I needed... when I get home I am going to read this in detail but from quick review I think this is exactly the issue or perceived issue... it's not the car it's the operator ! I am starting to get the hang of how it operates just by trial and error but this is a very good read (so far). I'll read it all carefully tonight, thank you for sharing this!

so I'm not crazy after all LOL... this is good news

Good tips in there, I came from an Evolution X with an SST dual clutch so I'm used to driving these things. But good content in that read for sure for those finding it weird in any way. I drive performance manual paddle 100% of the time I'd say.

[Heat00]

Good tips in there, I came from an Evolution X with an SST dual clutch so I'm used to driving these things. But good content in that read for sure for those finding it weird in any way. I drive performance manual paddle 100% of the time I'd say.

maybe I need to drive in perf. manual more ... i do drive in rs indy mode a lot just so the valves are more open and it sounds better.. just wish the valves were open in comfort too from the factory lol... and yes, I know a controller can do that but I'd rather just hit the rs button lol

[IanCH]

The simple way to think of it: You need to learn what the car thinks you are going to do.

One clutch is engaged, and the other has a gear preloaded based on what the car expects you to do. If you do the opposite, then you get a rough/slow shift.

Creeping is just you want to minimize the number of clutch operations, pretend you are driving a stick and dont want to engage the clutch and get into gear to drive 3 feet.

[S3DUDE]

Mine clunks all the time specially at low speeds. I am not to happy about it but from what I seen and heard the DQ500 are tough as nails.

[NapalmEnema]

maybe I need to drive in perf. manual more ... i do drive in rs indy mode a lot just so the valves are more open and it sounds better.. just wish the valves were open in comfort too from the factory lol... and yes, I know a controller can do that but I'd rather just hit the rs button lol

Testing this out I drove all day today in Individual mode which my wife uses. Nothing fancy like sport / exhaust open etc.. But I drove it in auto mode and honestly it felt good all day long. I always let a car warm up before sending it but once warm it responds well, never left me hanging, engages hard when needed. All around no complaints or jerkiness. Quite impressed with it overall.

I do however drive it like I learned on my Evolution X - I don't lift my foot off between shifts I just have the throttle tipped in and shift without moving it or whatever position it is in. Seems to 'know' what next gear I will want based on not lifting when shifting.

[AdamSheikh]

Mine clunks all the time specially at low speeds. I am not to happy about it but from what I seen and heard the DQ500 are tough as nails.

That's the soft mounts - mainly the pendulum ("dogbone") mount. The stock bushings are very soft with large voids for NVH reasons. A common fix is a dogbone insert, but not sure how well these hold up over time vs. a full bushing replacement.

[NapalmEnema]

That's the soft mounts - mainly the pendulum ("dogbone") mount. The stock bushings are very soft with large voids for NVH reasons. A common fix is a dogbone insert, but not sure how well these hold up over time vs. a full bushing replacement.

I don't understand this issue, are you guys saying when you putter around in auto the car is jerky and clunks and such? Never happens with my car, yesterday I was really trying to feel anything abnormal or 'off' and it just drives smoothly in all conditions. Like if I took a vid it would be boring as hell just smoothly gliding around. I drive slow a lot, parking lots for work etc. Stuck in traffic, just normal driving. I can't send it all the time lol.

[DrMerl]

It sounds like the shifting the DQ manually has its own set of perks. I'm rarely in M as well. Lots slow cruising around the coast in D, then S on the freeways. No odd shifting when in auto for me with just about everything to make things (trans) more "clunky". Those parts did make a nice difference in throttle response (less flex) and feel, no extra strangeness in shifting besides expected NVH with the parts. Only time I use the paddles is for left hold to lowest avail gear and downshift for some corners. M is nice for some situations in traffic, when you know the combination of auto shift+boost is going to be a problem (no power). I'll drive in M some more, see what happens, I'm programmed for auto for now.

Question - when things are most clunky where are you shifting? It is light throttle, up to 3000ish, right when boost is building then a shift? If you're tooling around and you know you're building boost/torque do you lift off ever so slightly (because you don't want speed) before that upshift? Power delivery is a bit like a light switch (gotta pull her hair first), under 3K (tooling around) and it should be smooth?

For manual ya-yas I have a nice 6sp TDI, discourages some thieves with that stick thingy, helps me practice my heel/toe =)

[grandpab]

The main one and the worst offender is that 3 to 2 shift when you're coming to a stop with the car shifting for you.

[steve111b]

What works for me on the 3 to 2 downshift is to not allow it to happen under 1500 rpm. In Manual I can keep the downshifts above 1500 rpm and all is well. When downshifting below 1500 rpm the DSG goes into what I call housekeeping. Do not downshift when in the housekeeping range. Housekeeping must occur to make downshifts at low speeds when coming to a stop. If I do not want to stop (the light suddenly turns green) and I am in housekeeping (below 1500 rpm) I am screwed. Getting back on the throttle or downshifting is going to interrupt housekeeping and generate a clunk/jerk. This is easy to see in Manual, but housekeeping works the same when in Auto Drive. My solution is to start the car in Dynamic/Sport and then go into Manual. When I need to shift below 1500 rpm I do not downshift, instead I place the DSG in Auto (which is in Sport). The DSG instantly shifts to a lower gear and bypasses housekeeping. Of course I have to remember to put the DSG back into Manual when I get a chance. The same thing will work when in Auto Drive. The light suddenly goes green and I discover the revs have dropped below 1500 (do not hit the gas) so I pull the shifter into Sport. Going into Sport bypasses housekeeping and instantly goes into a lower gear. Once I am in a lower gear (out of housekeeping range) I can hit the gas and there will never be a clunk/jerk.

Been doing this for years so I have a good idea when I need to bail and go from Manual to Auto. I just look at the situation ahead of me and make the decision to go into Auto/Sport and get out of Manual. Once out of Manual I must adjust the DSG so it goes back into Manual. These days I have muscle memory which helps me get ready for a switch into Sport. As I approach a red light I automatically place my hand on the shifter just in case the light unexpectedly changes to green. I am ready to be in the right gear no matter what happens.

[Heat00]

The main one and the worst offender is that 3 to 2 shift when you're coming to a stop with the car shifting for you.

Bingo! This right here, I noticed it today slowing down coming to a light. 3 to 2 is a hard clunk all the time . And I’m in normal comfort/D. Not doing anything other than slowing down. Sometimes also if it’s stop and go type situations… i

Yes, it’s like the car tries to predict and prepare based on what it thinks, which isn’t always the action I end up taking. It’s not a big deal I guess , just kind of weird as all my recent automatics had no behaviors like this, at any time. My son’s m2 does not behave like this either .

I’m going to try what was mentioned above, try to shift more manually… kind of treat it more like manual and take over more of the decision making of gears…

[Heat00]

The simple way to think of it: You need to learn what the car thinks you are going to do.

One clutch is engaged, and the other has a gear preloaded based on what the car expects you to do. If you do the opposite, then you get a rough/slow shift.

Creeping is just you want to minimize the number of clutch operations, pretend you are driving a stick and dont want to engage the clutch and get into gear to drive 3 feet.

I think you are exactly right. Going to try this Monday, won’t be driving tomorrow… just weird that I have to do this extra work on an auto lol.

That being said, under high rpm acceleration, she shifts very fast and smooth…-and it sounds good when shifting too, just seems the trade off for this DSG and it wonderful fast shifting , is the low speed confusion lol

[Heat00]

Mine clunks all the time specially at low speeds. I am not to happy about it but from what I seen and heard the DQ500 are tough as nails.

Good to know, it’s defintely more at low speeds or when slowing.

[Heat00]

Testing this out I drove all day today in Individual mode which my wife uses. Nothing fancy like sport / exhaust open etc.. But I drove it in auto mode and honestly it felt good all day long. I always let a car warm up before sending it but once warm it responds well, never left me hanging, engages hard when needed. All around no complaints or jerkiness. Quite impressed with it overall.

I do however drive it like I learned on my Evolution X - I don't lift my foot off between shifts I just have the throttle tipped in and shift without moving it or whatever position it is in. Seems to 'know' what next gear I will want based on not lifting when shifting.

Interesting. I’m going to try and learn how to operate this auto more and maybe just shift more manually mode to “tell” it what to do and when lol…

[Heat00]

I don't understand this issue, are you guys saying when you putter around in auto the car is jerky and clunks and such? Never happens with my car, yesterday I was really trying to feel anything abnormal or 'off' and it just drives smoothly in all conditions. Like if I took a vid it would be boring as hell just smoothly gliding around. I drive slow a lot, parking lots for work etc. Stuck in traffic, just normal driving. I can't send it all the time lol.

Yes this is what I’m saying. I think it’s been explained here pretty well… the car is try to anticipate what the driver will do next … but sometimes it’s wrong. It’s also many times when slowing from 3 to 2 . This is all is comfort D mode. Nothing abnormal just normal driving.

[Heat00]

It sounds like the shifting the DQ manually has its own set of perks. I'm rarely in M as well. Lots slow cruising around the coast in D, then S on the freeways. No odd shifting when in auto for me with just about everything to make things (trans) more "clunky". Those parts did make a nice difference in throttle response (less flex) and feel, no extra strangeness in shifting besides expected NVH with the parts. Only time I use the paddles is for left hold to lowest avail gear and downshift for some corners. M is nice for some situations in traffic, when you know the combination of auto shift+boost is going to be a problem (no power). I'll drive in M some more, see what happens, I'm programmed for auto for now.

Question - when things are most clunky where are you shifting? It is light throttle, up to 3000ish, right when boost is building then a shift? If you're tooling around and you know you're building boost/torque do you lift off ever so slightly (because you don't want speed) before that upshift? Power delivery is a bit like a light switch (gotta pull her hair first), under 3K (tooling around) and it should be smooth?

For manual ya-yas I have a nice 6sp TDI, discourages some thieves with that stick thingy, helps me practice my heel/toe =)

No, it’s more when slowing , and it downshifts from 3 to 2 for example, and it’s a hard loud clunky shift. Normal D mode not doing anything crazy. Maybe I just need to learn more how to tell it what I want it to do, via m mode or Rs mode. I guess I’m just not used to a transmission that behaves like this. It’s very different than a normal single box like my chargers had. I drove my sons m2 the other day and I see nothing like that in his car either. I’m surprised that more of you don’t notice this behavior of the DSG, it’s very weird to me

[Heat00]

What works for me on the 3 to 2 downshift is to not allow it to happen under 1500 rpm. In Manual I can keep the downshifts above 1500 rpm and all is well. When downshifting below 1500 rpm the DSG goes into what I call housekeeping. Do not downshift when in the housekeeping range. Housekeeping must occur to make downshifts at low speeds when coming to a stop. If I do not want to stop (the light suddenly turns green) and I am in housekeeping (below 1500 rpm) I am screwed. Getting back on the throttle or downshifting is going to interrupt housekeeping and generate a clunk/jerk. This is easy to see in Manual, but housekeeping works the same when in Auto Drive. My solution is to start the car in Dynamic/Sport and then go into Manual. When I need to shift below 1500 rpm I do not downshift, instead I place the DSG in Auto (which is in Sport). The DSG instantly shifts to a lower gear and bypasses housekeeping. Of course I have to remember to put the DSG back into Manual when I get a chance. The same thing will work when in Auto Drive. The light suddenly goes green and I discover the revs have dropped below 1500 (do not hit the gas) so I pull the shifter into Sport. Going into Sport bypasses housekeeping and instantly goes into a lower gear. Once I am in a lower gear (out of housekeeping range) I can hit the gas and there will never be a clunk/jerk.

Been doing this for years so I have a good idea when I need to bail and go from Manual to Auto. I just look at the situation ahead of me and make the decision to go into Auto/Sport and get out of Manual. Once out of Manual I must adjust the DSG so it goes back into Manual. These days I have muscle memory which helps me get ready for a switch into Sport. As I approach a red light I automatically place my hand on the shifter just in case the light unexpectedly changes to green. I am ready to be in the right gear no matter what happens.

Ok now we’re getting somewhere. I think this is very accurate as I never see this problem in higher rpms. To the contrary, when at wot or full throttle, at high rpms or even not, ant about 1500-2000, it shifts very fast, smooth, and quiet. You found the exact problem, it’s when it sifts at very low rpm. I’m glad I’m not crazy.. and I think I understand now how to avoid it as you mentioned. I do NOT notice this issue if in RS performance and now I understand why, in Rs performance, all up and down shifts are at very high rpms. In this mode it holds gears for a long time lol… while it can be annoying for normal driving or stop and go, to be in this mode, all shifts are smooth though.

[NapalmEnema]

Yes this is what I’m saying. I think it’s been explained here pretty well… the car is try to anticipate what the driver will do next … but sometimes it’s wrong. It’s also many times when slowing from 3 to 2 . This is all is comfort D mode. Nothing abnormal just normal driving.

I thought that Comfort mode was just intended for highway travel like long distance cruising? You guys should be in Auto or some flavor of Individual for your preference.

Stay out of comfort mode imo I really think it's not what you're using it for, or intended rather.

Can you try, for kicks, just leave it in Auto mode and do your day and see if different? Just curious tbh at this point. I never drive in Comfort mode.

[Heat00]

I thought that Comfort mode was just intended for highway travel like long distance cruising? You guys should be in Auto or some flavor of Individual for your preference.

Stay out of comfort mode imo I really think it's not what you're using it for, or intended rather.

Can you try, for kicks, just leave it in Auto mode and do your day and see if different? Just curious tbh at this point. I never drive in Comfort mode.

yep. in fact I also just realized something else, a duh moment..... at least I think.. kind of a different topi.... when in dynamic mode, I notice it opens the exhaust valve .. similar to rs indy and rs performance... and you can then hit the shifter back into D instead of S and the valve seems to stay open... which is nice as I do drive a lot of the time in RS Indy, not so much for the shifting issue mentioned above, but more for wanting the exhaust valve open but in city driving sometimes it's a bit too much as it really holds the gears and rpms very high... kind of too much for normal driving for me anyhow in stop and go etc.... back to the point, that's why I drive a lot in comfort. never really driven in auto mode, will try it to today but I think it closes the valve similar to comfort. this actually could be a nice little work around to installing a controller since I notice no other real difference and if the tranny is in D not S, it shifts more normally but the exhaust valve is open! kind of nice! even if it is changing the steering or suspension, it wasn't enough to notice.. and even if it does I don't mind steering and suspension in more of a sport mode if it means opening that valve up more.... didn't notice any other changes to traction control or anything else. my drive to work today did sound much better lol

[steve111b]

I place the consumption bar graph on the dash. Next I get the car into D7. Then I let the car coast to a stop. When coasting the bar graph goes into the green icon. Every time the DSG downshifts the graph will bump off the green icon. I notice a small jerk every time the DSG selects the lower gear. This works for every gear except first.

Now I let the car coast from D7 but add something. When the icon is green I force it out of there by gently touching the throttle. All I need is a tiny amount of throttle (the graph will move) to keep the graph out of the green. There will not be a jerk when the lower gear is selected. The DSG always dumps the clutch into the lower gear. When I hold the throttle out of the green I am slipping the clutch into the lower gear. It may appear random that the DSG makes a jerk, but it could be that I am approaching the corner with light throttle and the DSG is clutch slipping instead of dumping.

[NapalmEnema]

Man that's a lot of 'stuff'. My wife just drives the car - drives smooth. I just drive the car - drives smooth. I'm unable to recreate this on my 2022 stock RS3. Hope you get that sorted if it's that severe.

[Heat00]

I place the consumption bar graph on the dash. Next I get the car into D7. Then I let the car coast to a stop. When coasting the bar graph goes into the green icon. Every time the DSG downshifts the graph will bump off the green icon. I notice a small jerk every time the DSG selects the lower gear. This works for every gear except first.

Now I let the car coast from D7 but add something. When the icon is green I force it out of there by gently touching the throttle. All I need is a tiny amount of throttle (the graph will move) to keep the graph out of the green. There will not be a jerk when the lower gear is selected. The DSG always dumps the clutch into the lower gear. When I hold the throttle out of the green I am slipping the clutch into the lower gear. It may appear random that the DSG makes a jerk, but it could be that I am approaching the corner with light throttle and the DSG is clutch slipping instead of dumping.

Thank you. I’ll experiment tomorrow. Right now I’m sidetracked and excited that I can drive in dynamic and d, and have the exhaust valves open.

- - - Updated - - -

Man that's a lot of 'stuff'. My wife just drives the car - drives smooth. I just drive the car - drives smooth. I'm unable to recreate this on my 2022 stock RS3. Hope you get that sorted if it's that severe.

It’s not terribly severe, just a small annoyance. Small price to pay I guess as everything else about this car is great and a lot of fun.