Gwyneth Krauttro, the rescue of an Avant

[Jayz691]

Yeah, Europaparts is legit, and usually have good prices. Good choice to return the Bremmen, seen them cause issues many times. Last thing ya want is to "wash" a cylinder cuz they leak.
Hitachi is OE for RS4, Bosch is for S3(NLA). Can only buy Genuine or APR, both around $1k now new..

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[jbain2]

The spray pattern on the RS4 injectors isn’t ideal. I’d find out what motoza is recommending if that’s the route you are going. I’d stick with the S3 injectors if you can.


Sent from my iPad using Audizine Forum

[Jayz691]

The spray pattern on the RS4 injectors isn’t ideal. I’d find out what motoza is recommending if that’s the route you are going. I’d stick with the S3 injectors if you can.


Sent from my iPad using Audizine Forum

Motoza actually has RS4 listed on their site, so curious to see how tuning goes with them.

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Duece McCracken]

The spray pattern on the RS4 injectors isn’t ideal. I’d find out what motoza is recommending if that’s the route you are going. I’d stick with the S3 injectors if you can.


Sent from my iPad using Audizine Forum

Motoza actually has RS4 listed on their site, so curious to see how tuning goes with them.

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

Yeah, Motoza has them listed for their tune.

So far, with the spray pattern, I havn't actually found out the difference on here yet. People have varying opinions on how much they flow, and just say the pattern "isn't ideal" but havnt been able to find the actual injector spray pattern comparison.

I have found quite a few Big turbo builds on here running them without issue.

Most people running them, with a tuner that is versed in them, don't have any issues.

The negative claims are hard starts, and excessive soot. The soot is a direct injection byproduct thats amped by going catless. So I'm not concerned.

The hard starts, seems to be more of a tuner issue. Some guys/gals can tune them better than others.

If I found OEM S3 injectors for the same money, I'd have snagged them. The RS4 should be just fine.

There's still many build threads for me to read, but this is all my current findings.

Photobucket really screwed this place over, those greedy SOB's. Having all the broken images has been poo poo.

[Phosphorust]

Have you tried installing the ECS catback to the CTS Turbo Downpipe?

I had them both in the past but couldn't get the downpipe to properly connect to the catback. I ended up returning the ECS exhaust and buying a CTS exhaust for another like $100. Worth it having the proper fit.

I'm also doing timing + cam chain service right now. It sucks.

[Duece McCracken]

Have you tried installing the ECS catback to the CTS Turbo Downpipe?

I had them both in the past but couldn't get the downpipe to properly connect to the catback. I ended up returning the ECS exhaust and buying a CTS exhaust for another like $100. Worth it having the proper fit.

I'm also doing timing + cam chain service right now. It sucks.

Well, thats not great to hear.

Yeah I saw the CTS exhaust on your channel, lol

So I have the CTS test pipe, no meow. The ecs Big bore DP on the exhaust is 2.5" to 3". The CTS is full 3". I was going to get the ECS part fabbed to a full 3".

How didnt it fit? I can use this data to correct in fabrication.

[Jayz691]

Things I've seen over the years about the RS4 injectors is basically being dirty, hard starts, and test that they don't flow much over stock.
Would be awesome to see a flow test with all 3. I did come across someone that flow tested them along with stock and S3, and they flowed about the same as stock. Wish I could find that info again, it was a few years ago.
Wonder if the fact of them always blowing smoke/carbon, people think they flow more/too much, but in fact just not getting a clean burn like S3.
Would be awesome to get some actual testing done on all 3, brand new, and get some solid facts..

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Duece McCracken]

Things I've seen over the years about the RS4 injectors is basically being dirty, hard starts, and test that they don't flow much over stock.
Would be awesome to see a flow test with all 3. I did come across someone that flow tested them along with stock and S3, and they flowed about the same as stock. Wish I could find that info again, it was a few years ago.
Wonder if the fact of them always blowing smoke/carbon, people think they flow more/too much, but in fact just not getting a clean burn like S3.
Would be awesome to get some actual testing done on all 3, brand new, and get some solid facts..

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

Exactly!!!

My tuner works with them, so I'm confident in them for stock turbo, lmao

Once I get into tuning, I'll ask them their experiences with the rs4 injectors.

[Jayz691]

Also, the whole "stage 2+" is a newer thing with Motoza, they recently started tuning stock turbo/HPFP/injectors. Previously when I started tuning with them, they didn't offer stock turbo/bigger injector tuning. Well, they didn't advertise a "2+" tune. They do custom tuning so can do basically anything.
Wonder if there's any real gains with the injectors, if not running an E-blend, or if that's what it's really for.?
They also have a dif tuner now too, so maybe he has more experience with them.

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Duece McCracken]

Also, the whole "stage 2+" is a newer thing with Motoza, they recently started tuning stock turbo/HPFP/injectors. Previously when I started tuning with them, they didn't offer stock turbo/bigger injector tuning. Well, they didn't advertise a "2+" tune. They do custom tuning so can do basically anything.
Wonder if there's any real gains with the injectors, if not running an E-blend, or if that's what it's really for.?
They also have a dif tuner now too, so maybe he has more experience with them.

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

I guess they just want headroom or more fuel for high rpm pulls. The K03 doesnt have much of a topend, but every bit helps.

Im not oppossed to going E30, I just dont want another vehicle on E85 right now.

Lots of questions, lol.

My engine is still open right now, and many parts still need to be installed. So at best, im like 3 weeks out from tuning. Lmfao

My plan is to introduce as many variables at once, to make troubleshooting as difficult as possible when I start her up again. ;)

[Nate_Conner]

Well, thats not great to hear.

Yeah I saw the CTS exhaust on your channel, lol

So I have the CTS test pipe, no meow. The ecs Big bore DP on the exhaust is 2.5" to 3". The CTS is full 3". I was going to get the ECS part fabbed to a full 3".

How didnt it fit? I can use this data to correct in fabrication.

I have the CTS HFC, and the ECS catback exhaust, and other than the O2 Sensor not pointing in the most idea direction(the wire rubs a little on the firewall, i just dented it in a little) they fit up fine.

I dont see how the CTS down pipe would be any diffent, they both have the same flange to fit to stock. Other than working in close quarters, i didnt have any issues bolting them together, other than the outside shape of the flanges didnt match that well. the CTS is a normal hexagon, while the ECS is more of a triangle shaped hexagon, if you look at the pictures on ECS youll see what i mean by the flanges. luckily both ECS and CTS parts come with a gasket, so i picked the one that i felt sealed better.

the CTS is a 3" output, and the ECS exhaust is 3" until it gets to the Y split, where it slims down to 2.5" all the way to the back.

If you want pictures I can get you some of them bolted together

[Duece McCracken]

I have the CTS HFC, and the ECS catback exhaust, and other than the O2 Sensor not pointing in the most idea direction(the wire rubs a little on the firewall, i just dented it in a little) they fit up fine.

I dont see how the CTS down pipe would be any diffent, they both have the same flange to fit to stock. Other than working in close quarters, i didnt have any issues bolting them together, other than the outside shape of the flanges didnt match that well. the CTS is a normal hexagon, while the ECS is more of a triangle shaped hexagon, if you look at the pictures on ECS youll see what i mean by the flanges. luckily both ECS and CTS parts come with a gasket, so i picked the one that i felt sealed better.

the CTS is a 3" output, and the ECS exhaust is 3" until it gets to the Y split, where it slims down to 2.5" all the way to the back.

If you want pictures I can get you some of them bolted together

Yeah I figured fitment wouldn't be bad due to both parts being OEM based. Good to hear you are running a similar combo.

Yeah the flange shapes are weird, lol.

My ECS is not 3" at the DP connection. Its 2.5" for fitment with stock, then flares out to 3". Which was NOT disclosed or accurately represented by ECS at all. Which gets me all fired up.



Any pics of your setup would be welcomed!

[Duece McCracken]

https://motozaperformance.com/suppor...r-size-guides/

Just read this, interesting!

[Nate_Conner]

https://motozaperformance.com/suppor...r-size-guides/

Just read this, interesting!

thanks for sharing this, getting details on exactly what S3 injectors are (CC rating, part numbers, fitment guides, etc) has been rather hard, as i am still planning to go stage 3 KO4 at some point.

I will try to take some pictures of the HFC when i get off work in a couple hours. you are correct that it flares out to 3", i forgot it did to fit the OE flange size. Im guessing that the 3" is so that the flow rate is enough to split into 2 2.5" pipes. you shouldnt have any fitment issues, just be aware that the downpipe will likely poke just a little lower than the rear transmission support. my car is relatively low, and i do have to be rather careful to not bottom out, but that isnt a result of the exhuast, and i have yet be aware that i have dented it

[Phosphorust]

Well, thats not great to hear.

Yeah I saw the CTS exhaust on your channel, lol

So I have the CTS test pipe, no meow. The ecs Big bore DP on the exhaust is 2.5" to 3". The CTS is full 3". I was going to get the ECS part fabbed to a full 3".

How didnt it fit? I can use this data to correct in fabrication.

IIRC, the upper catback pipes would hit the heat shields and because of that wouldn't actually be able to line up with the downpipe. I tried for 3 hours and couldn't get it to work. When I tried again, this time with the CTS exhaust, it fit perfectly. I wish I took pics of the ECS catback failing to line up to the downpipe but I was pissed off that I spent almost a grand just for it to not line up, so I repackaged it and returned it immediately after giving up lol

[Duece McCracken]

Finished up the cam timing-ish

Going to slap on the valve cover tomorrow.

Got most things cleaned up.

New cam timing adjuster seals installed.

Fel-pro vc gasket is real nice. Have new(geez they are expensive) valve cover bolts installed too.

Assembly lube was used on all parts. I plan on an engine flush after she's back together anyway. After intake valve cleaning, lol

Waiting on the hpfp upgraded internals before I bolt that in.

[Duece McCracken]

Got the VC on. Coil packs, etc.

Cleaned a bunch of oil off stuff. There was quite a bit of leakage, lol

RS4 injectors are here!
R8 lpfp controller is here!

Purchased the Amazon AL oil filter housing.
Knock sensor
Crankshaft Position Sensor
More Coolant
Intake Manifold Gasket

Have all my supplies to manually clean the intake valves.

Had to keep in check what parts I reinstalled, due to the Alternator having to come out again for the intake mani.

Once I valve scrub, install RS4 injectors, new oil filter housing and sensors, then I'd be set to start installing more performance parts.

Waiting on the tuner to get me the hpfp internals, so I can then be done with the engine. I'll have to look into it.

[Duece McCracken]

Got the sensors, more coolant, and the amazon oil filter housing/oil cooler assembly and vacuum pump rebuild kit..


My hpfp internals are running late. Sigh

Going to rebuild the vacuum pump and yank the Intake manifold. Swap out the oil filter housing(once I confirm the pcv port is good) then the sensors.

After that, its going to be valve cleaning time.

Injectors will get swapped, and I'll button it all up.

Really close to be done the engine stuff.

Probably get into the diverter valve after that. It's a long list of stuff, lol

[Duece McCracken]

Hpfp upgrade is here.
Motoza flash cable is here.

Ordered a RS4 hp fuel relief valve. I figured since I have everything else going on, that extra fuel rail pressure will be nice to have.

It's rainy today. So not sure wtf Im doing.

Gotta ship back the Bremmen RS4 injectors to ECS
Need to rebuild Vac pump, and hpfp.

[Duece McCracken]

Rebuilt the vacuum pump.

Also did the HPFP upgrade. Autotech has really shitty instructions btw. No torque specs, they have you rip the entire thing apart, then no assembly instructions of the auxilary components on the pump. Had to use a few youtube videos, then ended up winging it, because nobody breaks the pump down to the level autotech does.

Hopefully it works, lmfao

Waiting on the RS4 pressure relief.

[Duece McCracken]

Started stripping it down to get to the oil filter housing.

Like a big dumb dumb, I stripped that bolt in the last pic. So i called it a quits for the day.

Have a 1/4" x 10" bit to drill it out, then I'll extract the "stud" once the intake manifold is out the way.

[Jayz691]

Rebuilt the vacuum pump.

Also did the HPFP upgrade. Autotech has really shitty instructions btw. No torque specs, they have you rip the entire thing apart, then no assembly instructions of the auxilary components on the pump. Had to use a few youtube videos, then ended up winging it, because nobody breaks the pump down to the level autotech does.

Hopefully it works, lmfao

Waiting on the RS4 pressure relief.

What did you have issues with? Assembly is just opposite of teardown, so ya gotta pay attention when breaking it down.
Did you put the pieces for the regulator back in, in the correct order(see pic)?
Make sure you rem the manifold support under the intake. Good luck with the stripped bolt.
Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Duece McCracken]

What did you have issues with? Assembly is just opposite of teardown, so ya gotta pay attention when breaking it down.
Did you put the pieces for the regulator back in, in the correct order(see pic)?
Make sure you rem the manifold support under the intake. Good luck with the stripped bolt.
Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

Yeah I put it back together as it came apart, but besides cleaning, there was no reason to break it down that far.

Torque spec on the stainless piston seal holder should be included. Torque specs on the other parts would have been nice too.

Assembly pictures of the components like you have would have been helpful.

I very lightly lubed most components. Didnt want to take a chance on any of it. Wasnt sure what was critical to lube or not besides the cam follower side of things, that all got lubed well.

Did not like the provided instructions. So I'm whining about them, lmao

Funny thing, on the opposite end, the vacuum pump kit had full pics, torque specs and everything included in a 30 dollar-ish o-ring kit. Which wasnt necessary but very nice and a surprise!

[Nate_Conner]

I used the 034 HPFP instructions (I bought the part so...) and their instructions, while not as useful in regards to taking the thing off, since their car had a catch can and was not stock, was very detailed when breaking down the pump. the Motza instructions break it down unnessecarily, as you only need to take it apart from the cam follower end. its pretty much one nut to take off.

034, as well as the other instructions i could find did not have a torque spec beyond "as tight as it was before" which imo is useless, since I, as someone without a vice, use a impact to take off the piston spring nut. so i gave it a light uga duga with the gun since the impact didnt work hard to take it off. so far no issues.

[Duece McCracken]

I used the 034 HPFP instructions (I bought the part so...) and their instructions, while not as useful in regards to taking the thing off, since their car had a catch can and was not stock, was very detailed when breaking down the pump. the Motza instructions break it down unnessecarily, as you only need to take it apart from the cam follower end. its pretty much one nut to take off.

034, as well as the other instructions i could find did not have a torque spec beyond "as tight as it was before" which imo is useless, since I, as someone without a vice, use a impact to take off the piston spring nut. so i gave it a light uga duga with the gun since the impact didnt work hard to take it off. so far no issues.

Motoza didnt give me any instructions, the Autotech HPFP internals had a printed sheet with them, that I tried to use, lol

I watched like 6 different youtube videos. Including a Mazdaspeed 3 vid, lol

Somebody mentioned 30 ft/lbs for the stainless piston retainer piece, so thats what I torqued it to.

It's a simple job, but I really like well done instructions, lol

[Duece McCracken]

Well, ECS tuning decided to ship this 170 dollar soft brass pressure relief valve just in an unpadded plastic mailer. So the crush washer interface is compromised and the fuel line side has damaged threads.

Ugh. Like wtf.

I'm on the fence, i can take a file and fix the threads, but will the crush washer actually seal properly inside the HPFP. That's the big question.

C'mon meow, this is a rookie mistake. I expected a little better from ECS Tuning.

The return process may take longer than I'd like. Im still waiting on them to process my RS4 injectors I sent back( i mailed them on monday, so they probably dont have them yet).

Decisions, decisions.

[Duece McCracken]

I used the 034 HPFP instructions (I bought the part so...) and their instructions, while not as useful in regards to taking the thing off, since their car had a catch can and was not stock, was very detailed when breaking down the pump. the Motza instructions break it down unnessecarily, as you only need to take it apart from the cam follower end. its pretty much one nut to take off.

034, as well as the other instructions i could find did not have a torque spec beyond "as tight as it was before" which imo is useless, since I, as someone without a vice, use a impact to take off the piston spring nut. so i gave it a light uga duga with the gun since the impact didnt work hard to take it off. so far no issues.

Lmao, "as tight"

Nice color instructions, some torque specs, lots of pics. Way better then Autotech's. Imma check a few other manufacturers. One of these may be the holy grail, lol

[Jayz691]

That prv should be fine, but I get the agitation. ECS...
Not sure what crush washer you're talking about, but the prv should be fine. Maybe clean that nicked thread up if ya can.

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Duece McCracken]

That prv should be fine, but I get the agitation. ECS...
Not sure what crush washer you're talking about, but the prv should be fine. Maybe clean that nicked thread up if ya can.

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

Zoom in on the center, both the prv and fuel inlet use aluminum crush washers to seal the brass fittings in the body of the hpfp on my 2008. That sealing surface will see the 145 bar on the prv, so I'm not thrilled to see it deformed from shipping damage.

It should work, but I'm not thrilled about it.

[OGB7A4]

Bro, this is an awesome build. You were blessed with an incredible starting point

[Duece McCracken]

Bro, this is an awesome build. You were blessed with an incredible starting point

Lmao, thats only because I haven't shared any good exterior, or interior pics. Car is a bit rough, paint is pretty damaged.

Well, I guess in the fact that it ran and drove, and everything (besides third gear nibbling) seems pretty good.

So yeah, its a decent project! Thank you for taking a gander.

Hopefully after all this, it gives me a good chunk of trouble free miles.

[Jayz691]

Zoom in on the center, both the prv and fuel inlet use aluminum crush washers to seal the brass fittings in the body of the hpfp on my 2008. That sealing surface will see the 145 bar on the prv, so I'm not thrilled to see it deformed from shipping damage.

It should work, but I'm not thrilled about it.

The prv doesn't go on the HPFP, it goes on the fuel rail.

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

[Duece McCracken]

The prv doesn't go on the HPFP, it goes on the fuel rail.

Sent from my CPH2611 using Audizine Forum mobile app

I gotta say, this Bentley manual is the worst FSM I have had. Doesnt show most of what Im trying to find. Yes I went into Fuel injection and intake manifold sections.

If I had popped off the intake mani I'd probably see it.

In my defense, the hpfp check valve fitting does look a whole lot like the prv until you put them next to each other, lmfao!

I figured the prv was on the rail until I popped the hpfp apart, then I had a "wtf" moment.

Going to read the bentley through again. I guess I need better manuals. It hasnt been very helpful, its let me down a couple times.

So thank you for your input.

[Duece McCracken]

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...lacement/page2

Here it is!!!

Damn intake flap motor is all up in there blocking my view, lol

I took the last 2 days off of wrenching the Audi. Had some tools/gaskets trickle in, so I'll be getting the stripped bolt head drilled out and that whole assembly off.

Maybe tomorrow after work.

[Duece McCracken]

Went out and drilled that bolt out, lol