Lost 1st and 2nd gear last night in my stage 3 A6

[SleeperA6]

Well just as the title reads I lost 2nd and reverse to start while driving to dinner last night, went for a spirited 2-3 shift after a turn and the car just said no thanks, limped it into the parking lot and was able to still grab 1,3,4,5,6 to get it home, and last stop sign on the way home of course it stops wanting to do first and third and if I try either it goes into reverse. It sounds like my shift collar and some other stuff finally gave up. Also it is odd that it is very sticky in neutral.

I am going to go out and try adjusting it and have a look at the shift rods and linkages and see if anything looks wrong or is loose, but it sounds like I am going to be having some transmission work done. Which given the cars build and power I kind of knew it needed to happen at some point but was hoping sooner rather than later.

I guess my question is options if it does need it, do a lot of guys just do the shift collar only, do they do syncros as well, is it worth it just to go full rebuilt core from jhm with upgraded everything and be one and done considering the current one is at 130k miles roughly. How far to take the 01E or possibly swap an 0A3 stocker and go that route. I may look around to see if a local transmission shop could rebuild mine vs. 5400 with core charge from jhm for a built 01e. The car is rods 2.7 lower end, 2.8 heads, rs6 hybrids on e85 at 25 psi currently so that is a consideration.


Part of me also thought about yanking this motor and throwing it another better condition A6 or S4 roller for what a built trans would cost, as they are out there. Granted that is a whole other can of worms and I really bought the A6 because it is a sleeper, gets no attention, and I like that. I don't need to do anything immediate, it's my fun car weekend toy runabout so time isn't an issue just trying to weigh what to do.


Decisions, Decisions, Decisions, bitch of it is I had just gotten the heater core hoses done on my own and all was well with the world

[V1nny]

For rebuilt 01E, Scotty (https://www.advancedautomotion.com/shop/), and Phil (https://audis4parts.com/contact-us/) are two other options. Phil is cheaper of the two, but quality control maybe inconsistent. Scotty is slow to build and more expensive than Phil, but either is cheaper than JHM. If you consistently boost 25psi, it may take 0A3 to its torque limits. Even with 01E at this power levels, try get the best quality components possible.

[SleeperA6]

For rebuilt 01E, Scotty (https://www.advancedautomotion.com/shop/), and Phil (https://audis4parts.com/contact-us/) are two other options. Phil is cheaper of the two, but quality control maybe inconsistent. Scotty is slow to build and more expensive than Phil, but either is cheaper than JHM. If you consistently boost 25psi, it may take 0A3 to its torque limits. Even with 01E at this power levels, try get the best quality components possible.

Absolutely appreciate the resources and will check those out, tried the adjustment this morning and 1-2 is totally locked still. The JHM is attractive because they can source and build a core, take care of everything and I can have it ready to put in rather than having mine sent out and waiting for rebuild and it needing more parts or being toast for some other reason. There is a used one local for $600 I could buy and send off as a core possibly. I get some core money back from jhm so a built transmission comes out to roughly $4500 with tax if not to much is broken.

You aren’t wrong on components, it needs upgrading to handle the power and not concern me. Thankfully this happened near my home.

[Audibot]

What's the torque limit of the 0A3? I've heard of RS4s with >1000 Nm (737 lb ft) being just fine.

[V1nny]

What's the torque limit of the 0A3? I've heard of RS4s with >1000 Nm (737 lb ft) being just fine.

maybe I am wrong, but RS4 0A3 is not the same as a regular 0A3
here is some more details: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...247-01E-or-0A3

[ShelbyM3]

I’m by no means expert, but I’m fairly certain an 01E can handle upwards of 1000Nm of torque. I don’t believe this transmission failure is a result of your power levels, but maybe some “abuse” from spirited driving and its age. Building from JHM or Scotty at Advanced Automotion is great and will be mostly likely a bullet proof box, but I don’t think it’s necessary for what you’re trying to accomplish. There’s a guy who has a quad turbo LS mated to his 01E and he snapped the freakin’ input shaft clean off before he munched any gears.
An OA3 will be slightly better with different gear rations, but I don’t believe it to be any “stronger” per se and you’ll have to find a way to convert the VSS with either the converter from JHM or find a universal type sensor like linked here: https://www.ultraperformance.co.uk/0...s-trigger-ring but these have been out of stock for a long time.

I suspect your synchros are/did fail and when you power shifted into gear something broke which is jamming up your 1-3 shaft. Could be a shift collar jammed up on 1 or 2, a broken shift fork, or a severely failed synchro. Your gears may be OK, but something is jamming up that side. We’re all speculating until it’s opened up, though. Posi-vibes more damage wasn’t done on your trip home


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[SleeperA6]

I’m by no means expert, but I’m fairly certain an 01E can handle upwards of 1000Nm of torque. I don’t believe this transmission failure is a result of your power levels, but maybe some “abuse” from spirited driving and its age. Building from JHM or Scotty at Advanced Automotion is great and will be mostly likely a bullet proof box, but I don’t think it’s necessary for what you’re trying to accomplish. There’s a guy who has a quad turbo LS mated to his 01E and he snapped the freakin’ input shaft clean off before he munched any gears.
An OA3 will be slightly better with different gear rations, but I don’t believe it to be any “stronger” per se and you’ll have to find a way to convert the VSS with either the converter from JHM or find a universal type sensor like linked here: https://www.ultraperformance.co.uk/0...s-trigger-ring but these have been out of stock for a long time.

I suspect your synchros are/did fail and when you power shifted into gear something broke which is jamming up your 1-3 shaft. Could be a shift collar jammed up on 1 or 2, a broken shift fork, or a severely failed synchro. Your gears may be OK, but something is jamming up that side. We’re all speculating until it’s opened up, though. Posi-vibes more damage wasn’t done on your trip home


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I got lucky and it's still just that 1-2 seized up,after adjusting that actually made it go into reverse and 3,4,5,6 better than it has since I had the car for this short time. To be fair the gears all held and pulled fine prior so I doubt I messed one up, but not knowing and there potentially being more wrong than just the rebuild kit makes the pre-built and sourced core attractive, even by the time I source one and send it I will eat up 1k dollars easy.

The 0A3 is interesting because of the better stock syncros and availability, everything else about the swap I am not super enthusiastic about or at least not certain I could find someone to do it for me around here and not charge a small fortune. I don't mind small wrench jobs or even medium stuff but I have a bad back and work a self-employed handyman job during the week so hours on a floor at home wrenching isn't an attractive proposition either way. I do have a local Indy Audi mechanic that is a master tech and knows the cars pretty well and was going to do some suspension rehab and odd stuff for me, so I am gonna call him Monday and see if he can give me a rough estimate on swapping the trans out either motor in or motor out(his preference) just to wrap my head around the numbers.

[ShelbyM3]

I got lucky and it's still just that 1-2 seized up,after adjusting that actually made it go into reverse and 3,4,5,6 better than it has since I had the car for this short time. To be fair the gears all held and pulled fine prior so I doubt I messed one up, but not knowing and there potentially being more wrong than just the rebuild kit makes the pre-built and sourced core attractive, even by the time I source one and send it I will eat up 1k dollars easy.

The 0A3 is interesting because of the better stock syncros and availability, everything else about the swap I am not super enthusiastic about or at least not certain I could find someone to do it for me around here and not charge a small fortune. I don't mind small wrench jobs or even medium stuff but I have a bad back and work a self-employed handyman job during the week so hours on a floor at home wrenching isn't an attractive proposition either way. I do have a local Indy Audi mechanic that is a master tech and knows the cars pretty well and was going to do some suspension rehab and odd stuff for me, so I am gonna call him Monday and see if he can give me a rough estimate on swapping the trans out either motor in or motor out(his preference) just to wrap my head around the numbers.

That does sound lucky. Right on!

I feel you on the bad back. Mine bugs me daily because I work in medical and have to move patients daily at my coworkers’ working height, and rarely mine. It takes its toll, because patients aren’t getting any lighter.

Unfortunately, there aren’t many people left who want to work on these old Audis so you’ll probably be left paying quite the premium for the work. I’d suggest pulling the whole engine and transmission as a unit, too. You could potentially address some other weak areas while you’re in there. It’s a slippery slope, for me, but with so much going NLA I always advise people not to put things off with a C5.


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[SleeperA6]

That does sound lucky. Right on!

I feel you on the bad back. Mine bugs me daily because I work in medical and have to move patients daily at my coworkers’ working height, and rarely mine. It takes its toll, because patients aren’t getting any lighter.

Unfortunately, there aren’t many people left who want to work on these old Audis so you’ll probably be left paying quite the premium for the work. I’d suggest pulling the whole engine and transmission as a unit, too. You could potentially address some other weak areas while you’re in there. It’s a slippery slope, for me, but with so much going NLA I always advise people not to put things off with a C5.


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Yeah mine is off and on about how much it will co-operate, generally leaning over a motor or laying on hard floors a long time doesn’t help, lol.

The motor was thoroughly gone through by redline motorworks 2500 miles ago and I addressed the minor stuff to get it running right, basically the motor was torn down to the bottom end and completely rebuilt and all of the spider hoses and all of the auxiliaries have been replaced and gone through at this point. The car had sat for a few years so it needed fuel filter, regulator, spark plug gap adjusted, loose boost hoses from the owner and indy shops besides redline doing work on the car and a sticking n75 valve. But before this it was running at full power no check engine lights ready to log, now it’s gonna be a bit.

The initial order of rehab was suspension, then drivetrain, then cosmetic, all while hoarding away some odd parts just in case or for future rehab, guess that order is gonna get jumbled a bit.


Like they say, everybody wants an Audi until it’s time to do Audi stuff😁

[ShelbyM3]

Yeah mine is off and on about how much it will co-operate, generally leaning over a motor or laying on hard floors a long time doesn’t help, lol.

The motor was thoroughly gone through by redline motorworks 2500 miles ago and I addressed the minor stuff to get it running right, basically the motor was torn down to the bottom end and completely rebuilt and all of the spider hoses and all of the auxiliaries have been replaced and gone through at this point. The car had sat for a few years so it needed fuel filter, regulator, spark plug gap adjusted, loose boost hoses from the owner and indy shops besides redline doing work on the car and a sticking n75 valve. But before this it was running at full power no check engine lights ready to log, now it’s gonna be a bit.

The initial order of rehab was suspension, then drivetrain, then cosmetic, all while hoarding away some odd parts just in case or for future rehab, guess that order is gonna get jumbled a bit.


Like they say, everybody wants an Audi until it’s time to do Audi stuff

Very nice! It sounds like you had a great trajectory until Audi got involved

Sorry about your luck. I know where an S4 O1E is near me right now.


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[SleeperA6]

Very nice! It sounds like you had a great trajectory until Audi got involved

Sorry about your luck. I know where an S4 O1E is near me right now.


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I found an 01e from a 2000 s4 with 180k miles no grinds for $600, any others are far enough away I can't go inspect them. Also haven't talked to Advanced automotion yet so they may have a line on decent cores. JHM was 1600 for a core which considering is not that bad. 0A3's are about the same price roughly.

[Bordom]

If you do end up swapping transmissions, doing an 02x swap is more affordable, and easier. Blairdude here did his Allroad and you can find their thread to follow along.

[SleeperA6]

If you do end up swapping transmissions, doing an 02x swap is more affordable, and easier. Blairdude here did his Allroad and you can find their thread to follow along.

02x interesting, have not heard of that one.

[ShelbyM3]

02x interesting, have not heard of that one.

I have a buddy who swapped in a couple O2X's into C5 V8's and 2.7's. I'm not personally sure how well they'd handle stage 3 power, though. He's building a single turbo 3.0L for his Allroad and is swapping to an OA3.

[V1nny]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293506579724 not sure what if rear diff has to be replaced as well

[SleeperA6]

I have a buddy who swapped in a couple O2X's into C5 V8's and 2.7's. I'm not personally sure how well they'd handle stage 3 power, though. He's building a single turbo 3.0L for his Allroad and is swapping to an OA3.

And that is the thing it's gotta handle the power I am gonna throw at it which Scott at Advanced has been super helpful in steering me on based on my usage. I am not throwing sticky tires on it on a prepped surface doing launches, the car is gonna wear all seasons year round and do mostly normalish driving with some spirited fun on occasion. Car hasn't ever been dyno'd but comparing it to similar setups it's probably a conservative safe estimate the car makes 500awhp/tq currently as it sits. I don't know how far I am gonna push it just for longevity sake and to be honest the power now on 2 lane country roads is a riot, borderline too much for using all the power sometimes and definitely requires restraint as it gets up to go to jail speeds ungodly fast, on the highway a bit more useable but again the cop factor is high here, I don't go hooning around for long periods of time in the city because of it, and don't get into speed contests otherwise bye bye car.

The only positive side is the cops just don't pay it any mind nor does anyone else really.

[Bordom]

02X have been put behind stock and built RS4 in Europe. I wouldn't worry about it too much, unless you're going over the typical 500whp limit for stage 3 cars. The main benefit of the 02X, is that it's basically an updated 01E and they were available everywhere. Finding replacements for peanuts is the dream right there.

[V1nny]

And that is the thing it's gotta handle the power I am gonna throw at it which Scott at Advanced has been super helpful in steering me on based on my usage. I am not throwing sticky tires on it on a prepped surface doing launches, the car is gonna wear all seasons year round and do mostly normalish driving with some spirited fun on occasion. Car hasn't ever been dyno'd but comparing it to similar setups it's probably a conservative safe estimate the car makes 500awhp/tq currently as it sits. I don't know how far I am gonna push it just for longevity sake and to be honest the power now on 2 lane country roads is a riot, borderline too much for using all the power sometimes and definitely requires restraint as it gets up to go to jail speeds ungodly fast, on the highway a bit more useable but again the cop factor is high here, I don't go hooning around for long periods of time in the city because of it, and don't get into speed contests otherwise bye bye car.

The only positive side is the cops just don't pay it any mind nor does anyone else really.

would you add high bias diff and TDI 6th gear, if you order from Scotty?

[SleeperA6]

would you add high bias diff and TDI 6th gear, if you order from Scotty?

Probably not, I run e85 so not much mpg to save, the higher 6th gear rpm’s with the rs6,hybrids make it more useable for mild acceleration at 70 and above without switching gear, for 100% throttle I would drop to 4th not to lug the engine, but stock 6th at 70+ gets into the rpm’s enough boost starts to come on and some torque is somewhat available without a downshift. My car is an absolute slouch below 2700 rpm with 2.8 heads and rs6 hybrids. K04 cars are much more useable in that respect no doubt.

I didn’t go with the 4:1, I am not going to be pushing the car enough to benefit from it, plus the long wheelbase may negate some of it’s effect at the limit while cornering, and cornering at the limit on back country roads is a surefire way to eat a ditch or trees. I can have fun without hooning it that hard on the stock diff bias. Plus I can always do it later and get one pre-built to drop in with the transmission in the car, I didn’t realize where it was and how easy it is to get to.

Fwiw I talked to three shops, all were helpful, got each ones opinion on what I want vs what I needed in a rebuilt unit and got a better understanding of different upgrades benefits or uses, in the end I picked a rebuilt with just oem synchros and collar, and try to drive smoothly and less like a moron, I am sure it had wear before but I did it no favors in my driving style, and no synchro or shift collar is gonna survive speed shifting like that forever in these cars.

But I got a trans on the way and a guy lined up to swap it so other than a flatbed quote I am gtg and will hopefully have it back rolling mid March.

[V1nny]

I should be getting Scotty's build gearbox next week with both high bias diff, and taller six gear, to go together with newish BEL motor with K04s and other Stage 3 pieces transferred from my old destroyed APB. I drove different versions with regular and high bias diffs, and most noticeable difference in cornering is when hotchkis sway bar is also installed. I guess there is some synergy between these two, high bias diff and stiffer bar. But my tune is a conservative 91 octane tune, pushing only 22.4 PSI.

[LZ9ROAD]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/293506579724 not sure what if rear diff has to be replaced as well

B6 S4/A4 Rear diff bolts up, you just reuse the C5 diff mounts from what I have seen. In addition to this, depending on final drive, I believe the tiptronic 2.8 C5 (EUT code) has the 3.89 ratio which would work depending on what gearbox you plan to use (B7 RS4 is 4.11, B6/B7 S4 3.89 IIRC). Driveshaft would be the only thing as, doesn't make sense to use a spacer on a high horsepower build if you're planning on beating on it a lot IMO, but, you probably could and be fine, just haven't gone that route personally with the driveshaft spacer. Unsure of any driveshafts that will just plug and play without use of that spacer, however, people have used the OEM shaft and have had them lengthened iirc.

https://jhmotorsports.com/jhm-b5-s4-...arts-list.html

This parts list might be of use for anyone considering.

[SleeperA6]

I should be getting Scotty's build gearbox next week with both high bias diff, and taller six gear, to go together with newish BEL motor with K04s and other Stage 3 pieces transferred from my old destroyed APB. I drove different versions with regular and high bias diffs, and most noticeable difference in cornering is when hotchkis sway bar is also installed. I guess there is some synergy between these two, high bias diff and stiffer bar. But my tune is a conservative 91 octane tune, pushing only 22.4 PSI.

I am running h-sport bars with h&r 1” lowering springs and even needing some front control arm work the car is pretty planted, like I said I am not going to be introducing that much speed or power at the limit on a public road, even with the stock diff now I had to basically over throttle the car in a corner to induce understeer, I am sure that 4:1 is noticeable at the limit with better throttle influence mid corner, I am just not gonna hit it often enough to justify or notice it. I am debating swapping back to the s6,a6,rs6 stock front 29mm sway bar, the h sport 35mm front is so stiff on roads with odd pitch changes or uneven surfaces it will spin the wheels a bit under power it’s so stiff even at 40 mph, thinking maybe just a stiffer rear bar only will help rotate the car a bit better during cornering.


You will have a nice cruising gear with that 6th and k04’s on the highway for sure. That low to mid range power is really nice. Which 6th gear ratio did you pick?

[V1nny]

Scotty told me he does not remember, so could be either .56 or .6 ratio. It was the last one he had in stock at this time.

[SleeperA6]

Scotty told me he does not remember, so could be either .56 or .6 ratio. It was the last one he had in stock at this time.

Stock is .65 isn’t it?

[V1nny]

Stock is .65 isn’t it?

TDI A6/S4 Allroad Ratio +Final
Allroad to TDI 4.375 to 4.11
1st: 3.50 3.500 3.750 1.07 1.13
2nd: 1.89 1.889 2.059 1.09 1.15
3rd: 1.23 1.231 1.417 1.15 1.219
4th: 0.97 0.97 1.071 1.104 1.17
5th: 0.73 0.806 0.857 1.17 1.24
6th: 0.56 0.684 0.730 1.21 1.287
Final: 4.110 4.110 4.375 1.06

more details: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-0-56-6th-Gear

[SleeperA6]

TDI A6/S4 Allroad Ratio +Final
Allroad to TDI 4.375 to 4.11
1st: 3.50 3.500 3.750 1.07 1.13
2nd: 1.89 1.889 2.059 1.09 1.15
3rd: 1.23 1.231 1.417 1.15 1.219
4th: 0.97 0.97 1.071 1.104 1.17
5th: 0.73 0.806 0.857 1.17 1.24
6th: 0.56 0.684 0.730 1.21 1.287
Final: 4.110 4.110 4.375 1.06

more details: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-0-56-6th-Gear

Yeah with that final drive and 6th your going to enjoy freeway cruising a lot more.


Doing some redneck math if I move up to a 235/50/17 on my car vs the 45 series I could have a stock .68 6th that would reach 200 mph with a 7500 rpm redline.

[V1nny]

If you really able to reach 200 mph, your next message may be from a local jail :)

[SleeperA6]

If you really able to reach 200 mph, your next message may be from a local jail :)

Possibly, couple of spots you can do it around here and probably get away with it, it’s picked up big time as far as cop activity the last few years due to street takeovers and crashes, young ones with more money than sense doing things on roads they can’t comprehend the consequences of when it goes wrong. Back in 18’ when I had my Mazdaspeed 3 the car with fbo and e85 would do every bit of 180 mph maxxed, my buddies k04 mk6 gti would hit roughly 190 before running out of gear, there is a 3 mile long 6 lane straight around here that in the dead of night you can rip it and we did a couple times in the dead of night. But yeah that is go straight to jail bye bye to license speed and I kind of need that to make money to put into the A6😂


I never really got into the weaving in and out if traffic street racing activities, cruising with a friend or two sure, but the traffic surfing stuff started about the time my speed got totaled parked in front of my house in 18’ by a drunk driver, haven’t had a fun car since then, but the car culture has definitely changed.


Transmission should be in late next week so hopefully I am back driving in a few weeks, I am working on putting away a couple of clean sub frames for the car, mine aren’t bad but not great either so down the line I want to swap them with a clean non-rusted set. If I can find the rs6 aluminum sub frame semi reasonable I may go that route for the rear.