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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Vehicle Speed Sensor Help Needed

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    Hi guys. I’m wrapping up a 2.7 build for my Allroad and I’m running in to an issue I can’t resolve. I put a brand new OE from Porsche VSS in and on my first test drive I was getting the “Brake” light on the cluster flashing with 3 beeps, she’d fall on her face when I pressed in the clutch, and letting off the throttle she’d fall on her face and then buck. Also, no speedometer. So, I swapped in my original VSS with no change.

    -Can I inspect the tone ring with the transmission in place?
    -Can I test the VSS to make sure they’re working on the bench?
    -How would you go about checking the harness for a broken wire? Wiring I bury my head in the sand on. I’m assuming continuity, but where and what setting on the multimeter?

    Thanks for any help!







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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I would think you could test continuity from the connector at the VSS to the ECU and then again from there to the speedometer. You’d obviously need the wiring diagrams (let me know if you do). You can just use the standard continuity reading on your multimeter where it produces a sound when it gets continuity in addition to the ohm readout.

    I guess in theory if you could get a boroscope in the hole where the VSS is and put the car in gear on stands or a lift you might be able to see the tone ring but it may be rotating too fast?


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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbain2 View Post
    I would think you could test continuity from the connector at the VSS to the ECU and then again from there to the speedometer. You’d obviously need the wiring diagrams (let me know if you do). You can just use the standard continuity reading on your multimeter where it produces a sound when it gets continuity in addition to the ohm readout.

    I guess in theory if you could get a boroscope in the hole where the VSS is and put the car in gear on stands or a lift you might be able to see the tone ring but it may be rotating too fast?


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    Thanks for the response!

    Woof, I don’t want to dig into the harness. I do have the wiring diagrams, I think. Thank you for the offer, I’ll hit you up if I can’t find what I need.

    I like your idea of a borescope down the VSS hole. Maybe I’ll try it with the vehicle off and spin the CV axle by hand to see what’s going on.


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  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Vehicle Speed Sensor Help Needed

    I bet checking continuity from the connector to the ECU plenum/pin isn’t as hard as you think. And it would go a long way providing some reassurance that you don’t have to chase down a wiring issue.

    Are you running the TTV flywheel? Reason I ask is because the tone ring is essentially built into the billet nature of the flywheel. I know with other flywheels the tone ring can separate or have issues. I can’t imagine the TTV wheel having an issue.

    Have you done any other work in the ECU or drivers side footwell? Removed the cluster at all?


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  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbain2 View Post
    I bet checking continuity from the connector to the ECU plenum/pin isn’t as hard as you think. And it would go a long way providing some reassurance that you don’t have to chase down a wiring issue.

    Are you running the TTV flywheel? Reason I ask is because the tone ring is essentially built into the billet nature of the flywheel. I know with other flywheels the tone ring can separate or have issues. I can’t imagine the TTV wheel having an issue.

    Have you done any other work in the ECU or drivers side footwell? Removed the cluster at all?


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    I really hope you’re right because that sounds daunting at the moment.

    TTV flywheels with B7 RS4 clutch. I think you may be mixing up your rings. I believe the flywheel is for the crank position signal and the VSS using a tone ring behind the driver’s axle mounted on the center diff, I believe.

    No other work aside from a stage 2 tune from ETSpec via Nick at PB5. Factory manual car so I didn’t need to do any finagling in the kick panel.


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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    I found these images online from a gentleman working on a B6 01E swapping it into a B5 S4.






    And this from a C4 forum thread.



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  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings Cybersombosis's Avatar
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    I just had a situation on my A4 where my speedo went. I tried a new speed sensor, trans tone ring, testing the wiring to the cluster, then another tone ring. The crank position sensor has nothing to do with the vehicle speed but I tried that as a Hail Mary. I even swapped out ECU’s. One of the final tests I did was to have the car on the lift and with the ignition on, car not started, spin the front driver’s wheel and look for a signal from the vehicle speed sensor on the cluster. Sure enough, the speedo moved. I thought to myself, problem solved after the second tone ring. Went for a spin and still no movement on the cluster. WTF? From what I gathered, the OEM wiring somewhere along the line had interference or a noisy signal while the car was running not allowing the pulses of the sensor to reach the cluster so I wired the speed sensor directly to the cluster bypassing the OEM wiring altogether and now it works again. My original testing of the wiring was for continuity which passed and threw me in the wrong direction.

    A couple months ago after bypassing the wiring, I had the same thing happen again so I looked at the connector and sure enough water had dripped down the wire and into the plug so the water was causing a short or something. I took some contact cleaner and sprayed the inside of the connector and speed sensor and blew it out with compressed air the put a dab of silicone on the rubber boot where the wires enter so water can no longer drip down the wire. This was most likely the cause before but I didn’t realize it.
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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Vehicle Speed Sensor Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybersombosis View Post
    I just had a situation on my A4 where my speedo went. I tried a new speed sensor, trans tone ring, testing the wiring to the cluster, then another tone ring. The crank position sensor has nothing to do with the vehicle speed but I tried that as a Hail Mary. I even swapped out ECU’s. One of the final tests I did was to have the car on the lift and with the ignition on, car not started, spin the front driver’s wheel and look for a signal from the vehicle speed sensor on the cluster. Sure enough, the speedo moved. I thought to myself, problem solved after the second tone ring. Went for a spin and still no movement on the cluster. WTF? From what I gathered, the OEM wiring somewhere along the line had interference or a noisy signal while the car was running not allowing the pulses of the sensor to reach the cluster so I wired the speed sensor directly to the cluster bypassing the OEM wiring altogether and now it works again. My original testing of the wiring was for continuity which passed and threw me in the wrong direction.

    A couple months ago after bypassing the wiring, I had the same thing happen again so I looked at the connector and sure enough water had dripped down the wire and into the plug so the water was causing a short or something. I took some contact cleaner and sprayed the inside of the connector and speed sensor and blew it out with compressed air the put a dab of silicone on the rubber boot where the wires enter so water can no longer drip down the wire. This was most likely the cause before but I didn’t realize it.
    Dang man, that’s a long journey that I hope to avoid. Thank you for sharing. Where’d you find tone rings at, just in case I end up needing one? My searches came up NLA.

    Last night I checked the harness coming out of the engine harness, down the bell housing, and to the connector. Everything was routed and zip tied like factory with the heat sleeve still over the distal end to protect it from the downpipe.

    I also checked my wheel speed on the lift and I got reading for all 4 wheels.




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    Last edited by ShelbyM3; 01-23-2025 at 07:10 AM.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShelbyM3 View Post
    I really hope you’re right because that sounds daunting at the moment.

    TTV flywheels with B7 RS4 clutch. I think you may be mixing up your rings. I believe the flywheel is for the crank position signal and the VSS using a tone ring behind the driver’s axle mounted on the center diff, I believe.

    No other work aside from a stage 2 tune from ETSpec via Nick at PB5. Factory manual car so I didn’t need to do any finagling in the kick panel.


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    Sorry. You are correct. Was thinking about the CPS.


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  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings Cybersombosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShelbyM3 View Post
    Dang man, that’s a long journey that I hope to avoid. Thank you for sharing. Where’d you find tone rings at, just in case I end up needing one? My searches came up NLA.

    Last night I checked the harness coming out of the engine harness, down the bell housing, and to the connector. Everything was routed and zip tied like factory with the heat sleeve still over the distal end to protect it from the downpipe.

    I also checked my wheel speed on the lift and I got reading for all 4 wheels.




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    I think you are looking at the wrong measuring blocks. You should be looking at the vehicle speed and not wheel speed. That is reading the ABS sensors. It should only be one reading. If you are not getting a speed reading in VCDS then it may be your tone ring. Next with the car on the lift, spin the front left wheel and see if your speedometer moves. Do an output test on your cluster to see if it sweeps. Report back your findings.

    When you checked your connector, was there any moisture in it?

    As far as the tone ring goes, it was for an 01A for my 5 speed and luckily one of my customers had one. I then broke his but he had a spare trans he that he gave me and I scavenged the second one off of that. He bought one off of eBay but don’t know if they are the same part number. Below is the one he bought off of eBay.

    IMG_3141.jpg

    Here is the post with the things I went through.

    https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post15048495
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  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Vehicle Speed Sensor Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybersombosis View Post
    I think you are looking at the wrong measuring blocks. You should be looking at the vehicle speed and not wheel speed. That is reading the ABS sensors. It should only be one reading. If you are not getting a speed reading in VCDS then it may be your tone ring. Next with the car on the lift, spin the front left wheel and see if your speedometer moves. Do an output test on your cluster to see if it sweeps. Report back your findings.

    When you checked your connector, was there any moisture in it?

    As far as the tone ring goes, it was for an 01A for my 5 speed and luckily one of my customers had one. I then broke his but he had a spare trans he that he gave me and I scavenged the second one off of that. He bought one off of eBay but don’t know if they are the same part number. Below is the one he bought off of eBay.

    Attachment 335752

    Here is the post with the things I went through.

    https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post15048495
    Ok, good to know. Is that MB in the ECM and do you know what MB number it is?

    Connector and harness are clean and dry.

    I’ll figure out the output test on the cluster and report back. I read they can fail, but it hasn’t been touched in 5 years and was working fine before. Speedometer does not move with left front wheel turning or driving.

    Interesting. Ok. The part number I was finding is 012409187C, but it was replaced by a D suffix. I found a similar eBay option this morning.


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    Veteran Member Four Rings Cybersombosis's Avatar
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    So the sequence for the signal is speed sensor to the cluster then from the cluster to the ECU so you would log in to the cluster and advanced measuring blocks and type “speed” and it should show up. Just tick that off and it will show up in the window and go for a spin. If you are getting a speed in VCDS but nothing on the cluster then it’s most likely the cluster. If you have a spare cluster, try popping that in to confirm. If you aren’t getting a reading then it’s something before the cluster. Tone ring, speed sensor or wiring.
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybersombosis View Post
    So the sequence for the signal is speed sensor to the cluster then from the cluster to the ECU so you would log in to the cluster and advanced measuring blocks and type “speed” and it should show up. Just tick that off and it will show up in the window and go for a spin. If you are getting a speed in VCDS but nothing on the cluster then it’s most likely the cluster. If you have a spare cluster, try popping that in to confirm. If you aren’t getting a reading then it’s something before the cluster. Tone ring, speed sensor or wiring.
    Thank you so much! That is very helpful!


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    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Vehicle Speed Sensor Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybersombosis View Post
    I think you are looking at the wrong measuring blocks. You should be looking at the vehicle speed and not wheel speed. That is reading the ABS sensors. It should only be one reading. If you are not getting a speed reading in VCDS then it may be your tone ring. Next with the car on the lift, spin the front left wheel and see if your speedometer moves. Do an output test on your cluster to see if it sweeps. Report back your findings.

    When you checked your connector, was there any moisture in it?

    As far as the tone ring goes, it was for an 01A for my 5 speed and luckily one of my customers had one. I then broke his but he had a spare trans he that he gave me and I scavenged the second one off of that. He bought one off of eBay but don’t know if they are the same part number. Below is the one he bought off of eBay.

    IMG_3141.jpg

    Here is the post with the things I went through.

    https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post15048495
    Cluster output test went great. Speedometer moves as expected.

    Took it for a drive and Engine Measuring Block 005 showed now vehicle speed.




    Aaron Walizer suggest I unplug the MAF to see if that changes drivability, and it did slightly, but not 100% I was able to disengage the clutch smoothly a couples times, but others were still rough with the “Brake” flash and off throttle is still a little bucky. Interestingly, when I unplugged the MAF and the VSS connector, I got Traction, Suspension, and ABS lights on the cluster.







    I’m also getting this ABS code that immediately returns.


    I’m hoping later tonight I can borescope the VSS hole and see if I can see the reluctor ring.


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    Last edited by ShelbyM3; 01-23-2025 at 09:55 PM.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings Cybersombosis's Avatar
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    So in this pic it says the vehicle speed is zero. Is it zero all the time or did it change when you drove?

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  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    I took that while stationary and showed it for proof of MB 5. I didn’t take a picture while driving, but vehicle speed never moved. All other fields populated.


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  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings Cybersombosis's Avatar
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    Assuming you mean the vehicle speed on VCDS never changed rather than the speedo never moved, it sounds like a wiring, tone ring or speed sensor issue. One more thing to do is remove the speed sensor from the trans and while someone is sitting in the driver’s seat, tap the tip of the speed sensor quickly with a magnet. This should simulate the tone ring going around past the sensor. The speedo should move ever so slightly dependant on how fast you tap. Report your findings.
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  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Vehicle Speed Sensor Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybersombosis View Post
    Assuming you mean the vehicle speed on VCDS never changed rather than the speedo never moved, it sounds like a wiring, tone ring or speed sensor issue. One more thing to do is remove the speed sensor from the trans and while someone is sitting in the driver’s seat, tap the tip of the speed sensor quickly with a magnet. This should simulate the tone ring going around past the sensor. The speedo should move ever so slightly dependant on how fast you tap. Report your findings.
    Correct, VCDS was running while I drove around the block.

    I turned on the ignition, spun the driver’s wheel, and got no movement on the cluster. I recorded it to make sure it wasn’t subtle. So no signal is getting to the cluster.

    I sent the borescope down the hole, but it doesn’t look like the pictures I posted above. I feel like the tone ring is missing, but I don’t want to get too excited. Haha. Based on the pictures I found online the tone ring snaps into two notches in the differential shaft. Granted mine is a different perspective, but the notch I can see at roughly the 12:00 position has nothing clipped into it. The diff case that comes off goes around this area so it’s hard for me to get the right angle coming from underneath the vehicle. Another thing I noted was the tone ring is roughly the same diameter as the bearing on the diff shaft and when comparing my image to that there is clearly a step down at the bearing.









    Thoughts?


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    Last edited by ShelbyM3; 01-25-2025 at 08:28 AM.

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings Cybersombosis's Avatar
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    Ya I’d say it’s missing. Those notches are where the tone ring snaps into. Now you can move ahead and get it fixed. Do one last test for me and tap your sensor with a magnet just to make sure the speedo works.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Roger that!


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    Veteran Member Four Rings Silverex's Avatar
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    Did you pull boot back on connector and check wiring there? I’ve had the pins get corroded and my speedo stopped working and it’s not uncommon to have those wires damaged at connector.
    If you wanna check the wiring for continuity
    Pin2 goes to T10m/10 (black body connector pin 10)
    Pin3 is ground at Ecu pins 1&2 but could check at chassis ground behind coolant tank also.

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    Veteran Member Four Rings Cybersombosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverex View Post
    Did you pull boot back on connector and check wiring there? I’ve had the pins get corroded and my speedo stopped working and it’s not uncommon to have those wires damaged at connector.
    If you wanna check the wiring for continuity
    Pin2 goes to T10m/10 (black body connector pin 10)
    Pin3 is ground at Ecu pins 1&2 but could check at chassis ground behind coolant tank also.
    Ya I’ve had water collect on the wire then run down past the rubber boot and into the connector on my A4. I put a dab of RTV where the wire and rubber boot meet to keep water out. One of the reasons why I wanted Shelby to test the signal at the VSS by tapping with a magnet. Don’t want to assume anything at this point.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverex View Post
    Did you pull boot back on connector and check wiring there? I’ve had the pins get corroded and my speedo stopped working and it’s not uncommon to have those wires damaged at connector.
    If you wanna check the wiring for continuity
    Pin2 goes to T10m/10 (black body connector pin 10)
    Pin3 is ground at Ecu pins 1&2 but could check at chassis ground behind coolant tank also.
    I did inspect the wires and pulled back the heat sleeve and insulation. I’m not sure if the C5 harness is different from a B5, but mine makes a 90 and the wires look enclosed in rubber entering the connector. Is this the boot you’re referring to? Does it completely cover the connector, because I honestly assumed it was all part of the connector?




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    Veteran Member Four Rings Silverex's Avatar
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    Yea slide that off to get a better look.

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    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverex View Post
    Yea slide that off to get a better look.
    I’ll definitely give it a look, but it’s been in my shop for about 5 years and I’m 99% sure I don’t have a tone ring which is the actual issue.


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    Sure looks like it’s missing to me. How does that happen? Lol

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    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELison View Post
    Sure looks like it’s missing to me. How does that happen? Lol
    Long story: 2 years after purchasing my Allroad it began having really hard clutch disengagements and I could tell it wasn’t happy. I reached out to Scotty at Advanced Automotion and he told me my transmission was going to explode. Hahaha, I think he was being a smart-ass. He can be pretty dry, like yourself I sourced a used Allroad transmission off Craigslist up near Seattle WA, like it was a sign from above. 100,000 miles, supposedly, and the PO swapped his entire transmission for a TDI 01E. He had the work done at AMD. So fast forward to this week, I’m having VSS and drivability issues so I start asking for help. Aaron Walizer jumped on board and started helping me trouble shoot. He asked about what transmission I had swapped because a B6 01E or a late model TDI transmission never came with a tone ring because they went to the ABS style setup. I told him it was an Allroad one, but then I got to thinking. When I checked and topped off my transmission fluid after I got the lock carrier on with the transmission cooler, I noticed one of the bolts for the cover plate on the center differential behind the driver’s front CV axle was loose. Like really loose. That didn’t sit well with me.


    I continued troubleshooting my VSS with no luck. Finally, I added it all up and I suspect that AMD robbed the tone ring off of the transmission I bought because the TDI transmission the PO swapped into his Allroad didn’t come with a tone ring! Only logical explanation, in my mind. I really don’t think the PO knew it was missing. So, for $200, a few hours of diagnostics, a big dose of humility, and hopefully only a few hours of repairs costing me $20, I should be set. Now I have another factory Allroad 01E to swap into my other 2.7 Auto or even my V8 Allroad.





    Turns out my pressure plate had failed and my throw out bearing was seized up pretty good. That was the source of my issues, but I didn’t figure this out for years, honestly. It was only when I went to take hardware off my factory transmission did I find the piece in my fingers inside my bell housing and started investigating.






    This all came out of my throw out bearing…


    I suspect someone threw a new clutch in her and kept the pressure plate. I only found one of the three fingers broken off the pressure plate 🫣

    So that’s the story! Ha! My wife got me that new borescope for Christmas, too. It all happened almost like it was meant to be


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  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings Cybersombosis's Avatar
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    What brand bore scope is that and does it have an attachment or can it turn to see 180 degrees upwards for looking at valves?
    2001.5 Audi A4 1.8TQMS - Brilliant Black on Black Onyx Sport Cloth
    Motoza Hybrid K04 Tune, FT F4-H, Bosch EV14 550cc, AEM Water/Meth Injection, Majesty FMIC, SSAC Cat Back Exhaust, Podi Boost Gauge, ATP Test Pipe, K&N air filter, HID fogs, eBay short shifter, Aero wiper kit, Eibach Pro-Kit springs, 18” B6 Ultrasport, Firestone Indy 500.
    2001 Audi S4 SRM K24 RS6 build

  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Feb 05 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybersombosis View Post
    What brand bore scope is that and does it have an attachment or can it turn to see 180 degrees upwards for looking at valves?
    You know it does Replaced my 12 year old dinosaur!

    https://a.co/d/4NIu8Xj


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  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybersombosis View Post
    Ya I’d say it’s missing. Those notches are where the tone ring snaps into. Now you can move ahead and get it fixed. Do one last test for me and tap your sensor with a magnet just to make sure the speedo works.
    https://youtube.com/shorts/bpEzY1Jn_...E9oXf-zEA37dgb

    You called it! I feel so damn relieved right now I could kiss your feet Thanks for all the help guys, appreciate it.


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  31. #31
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings Cybersombosis's Avatar
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    Does it work now?
    2001.5 Audi A4 1.8TQMS - Brilliant Black on Black Onyx Sport Cloth
    Motoza Hybrid K04 Tune, FT F4-H, Bosch EV14 550cc, AEM Water/Meth Injection, Majesty FMIC, SSAC Cat Back Exhaust, Podi Boost Gauge, ATP Test Pipe, K&N air filter, HID fogs, eBay short shifter, Aero wiper kit, Eibach Pro-Kit springs, 18” B6 Ultrasport, Firestone Indy 500.
    2001 Audi S4 SRM K24 RS6 build

  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings ShelbyM3's Avatar
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    Feb 05 2007
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    Portland, OR

    Vehicle Speed Sensor Help Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybersombosis View Post
    Does it work now?
    Like a dream. I just returned from my first little 25 mile shake down. Thank you for your help and idea.


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