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  1. #1
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    Swapped the water pump without changing timing belt due to stripped crank pulley bolt

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    Today I decided to do the timing belt and water pump job as the pump has had a slow leak for a few months that I thought was solely coming from the coolant flange. I did the flange and then found out the pump was also leaking and have been dreading doing it. Leak has got to the point where about half the coolant leaks in about 15-20 minutes so I can no longer put the job off as I have to commute for work. Problem is that its snowing with single digit temps and I'm in a lot of pain from my job plus spending hours on this job back to back. When this job goes smooth, its gravy work for most mechanics, but if you are a DIYer and something goes wrong, its gonna be an huge headache and I don't recommend this job unless you are somewhat advanced in your automotive knowledge and have all the tools to do so. If you get the timing wrong, it could be good bye to your engine so make sure whatever you do you get that right.



    To say its been frustrating is an understatement.


    My bumper well bolts were already broken so it made taking off the bumper cover, removing crash bar and impact braces, and setting the front carrier into the service position relatively easy and was feeling great. I saw a video that showed if you remove the electrical connectors from the head lights, and a few coolant hoses, you could basically remove the entire front carrier and have more room to work. I did this and the extra space was nice, but its not 100% needed and can be done without doing so. Well all of my electrical connectors were extremely brittle and ended having to break the tabs to get them off. I spent over an hour using picks to no success before eventually getting them off. I then had to remove the aux radiator pipes that were held on with hose clamps and they also were basically melted on, followed by the AC lines that run into the condenser. There are some power steering lines that run in front of the condenser too, but I had cushion supporting the carrier so not much tension was on the power steering lines and didnt have to remove them.

    I get to the timing cover and there are no marks. No problem, I had to look up and line the TINY marks on the crank gear and cam gear to get it to TDC and then I marked the cam, crank, and even made a mark on my water pump too for good measure.

    I go to remove the Crank pulley and get 5/6 bolts off. I have an 2005.5 so mine had sockethead allen bolts that were CIRCULAR, meaning if it stripped, you won't have a secondary fastener to get them off, which is BEYOND idiotic. They even make the 10mm bolts that secure the water pump this way, why can't they do the same for crank pulley? This is was the one time that I wish they were triple square and see why they updated them later in the generation.

    I then took about 4 hours hammering in different fasteners to no success. I even tried using a drill bit and EZ out to no success, the only other thing I haven't done is a turbo socket, but the 19mm crank bolt and the hex bolt are like 1mm apart and the wall of a socket is too wide to fit flush on the bolt. I've tried every kind of extractor that I have, I even tried putting vice grips on the bolt and cranked it down as tight as it goes and nothing. I personally think that it either is the original bolts from 20 years ago or someone did the job and way over torqued and or used an impact to put everything back on.

    When I bought my vehicle, I was told that the water pump had not been done yet, however it had the contitech sticker in my door sill stating the timing belt was done at 75,000, meaning they either did a timing belt and water pump job or just a timing belt, which seems weird as you usually do them at the same time because of the inaccessibility of the job. My carfax says timing has been done, but not water pump specifically so thats what I am assuming to be true.

    I ended up installing a new water pump, but kept the timing belt. I know you ideally don't do this, but I have to make it to work and I might just pay someone to extract that bolt for me as I dont have an air chisel or anything that high powered enough. I already have the belt and have done the job once and know what to expect. I assume I have 25,000k before I have to swap the belt as I am at 125k. I carefully took the water pump off and replaced it with a new one while keeping the Cam and Crank in time. After reinstallation, I turned the engine over several times with a ratchet to ensuring timing stayed on point and it did, which was the biggest thing I was scared about and had never done before.


    Right after I retightened the timing belt tensioner, I dropped the 10mm nut that holds it on and it fell in the bottom the radiator/front carrier and never was able to get it back, so now I have to wait until tomorrow to get a nut and reinstall all the hoses, connectors, bolts. I still think I have about 2 hours of work tomorrow, but it does feel good to have this job mostly fixed.

    I obviously don't recommend just doing one of the jobs, but if you find yourself in a situation like me where your crank pulley bolts are stripped and can't remove them, the timing belt is still in good shape, but your water pump has failed and is leaking, this can be a solution but just know that you will need take the front end off again to do the timing belt again sooner than if you would have just replaced both at once.

    I think by the end of this, I will have spent 12 hours on the job. If nothing would have stripped and connectors came off easier, I would have finished this job in under 4-6 hours in which the book estimates.

    This also gives me chance to source some triple square bolts for the crank pulley so I dont have another allen strip out on me.

    Hopefully I will hit the lottery and never have to do this job ever again. I've done one water pump and one flange so have got 2 of the hardest services out of the way nearly.

  2. #2
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Hugh@EuropaParts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lepper View Post

    I've done one water pump and one flange so have got 2 of the hardest services out of the way nearly.

    Oil filter housing says hello...
    Hugh
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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    sorry to see this ... zip off the head of the bolt with a grinder bit or dremmel... pull off crank pulley ,, now you can remove leftover bolt with ease.

    heat , crayon, vice grips, PB blaster .. whatever you prefer..
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh@EuropaParts View Post
    Oil filter housing says hello...
    Did you come to my house last night and sabotage my car? It is now leaking from the oil filter housing...

    Audi, the gift that keeps taking.

  5. #5
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Hugh@EuropaParts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lepper View Post
    Did you come to my house last night and sabotage my car? It is now leaking from the oil filter housing...

    Audi, the gift that keeps taking.
    I'm not even going to mention the words rear mail seal.
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  6. #6
    Established Member Two Rings Phosphorust's Avatar
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    I am LITERALLY in the same position as you. Those stupid f***ing bolts suck! I got 4/6 out and the other 2 stripped unbelievably easily. I ended up using a drill bit to break the heads of the bolts off, and just received my new bolts in the mail not too long ago. What a pain in the ass.

    I'll be including footage of me drilling them out in the part 2 of my valve seals series on my youtube channel, which is linked in my signature below

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    once you remove the heads off the bolts and get the pulley off life becomes easier.. ( i know i know easier said than done ) you dont want to dill so much out hat you have nothing to grip once the pulley is off . they should come out fairly easily once the head is knocked off and pully removed.
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  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Clever idea. I know it doesn't help now, but this is what I do to avoid rounding off the hex head bolts. These socket heads become filled with grit. I clean them out first before inserting hex head socket. Then I lightly tap the socket several times with a hammer to make sure it is fully seated. Tapping of the hammer also creates vibration which helps loosen the bolt threads. Slow process, but it worked for me.
    David

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Two Rings CycloSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidAR View Post
    Clever idea. I know it doesn't help now, but this is what I do to avoid rounding off the hex head bolts. These socket heads become filled with grit. I clean them out first before inserting hex head socket. Then I lightly tap the socket several times with a hammer to make sure it is fully seated. Tapping of the hammer also creates vibration which helps loosen the bolt threads. Slow process, but it worked for me.
    Exactly. One tool which can also help is a hand impact driver, which you smack with a BFH. Bought mine 45+ years ago to crack stuck case bolts on a CR125 Elsinore; works wonders.
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  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidAR View Post
    Clever idea. I know it doesn't help now, but this is what I do to avoid rounding off the hex head bolts. These socket heads become filled with grit. I clean them out first before inserting hex head socket. Then I lightly tap the socket several times with a hammer to make sure it is fully seated. Tapping of the hammer also creates vibration which helps loosen the bolt threads. Slow process, but it worked for me.
    doing this saves all kinds of headaches,, and should not even be in question given where that pulley sits .. get lazy with this and you will pay a heavy price.
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  11. #11
    Established Member Two Rings Phosphorust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidAR View Post
    Clever idea. I know it doesn't help now, but this is what I do to avoid rounding off the hex head bolts. These socket heads become filled with grit. I clean them out first before inserting hex head socket. Then I lightly tap the socket several times with a hammer to make sure it is fully seated. Tapping of the hammer also creates vibration which helps loosen the bolt threads. Slow process, but it worked for me.
    I had actually done this with the first 4. Sprayed the bolt head with a water bottle to break out any loose dust, then used a hammer on the back of my ratchet to bang the torx bit into the bolt.


    Unfortunately mine is a 2006 so my harmonic balancer bolts aren't hex heads, they're circular head bolts with a torx in the middle. See here.


    My car is 20 years old and those bolts have never come off.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings Theiceman's Avatar
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    umm i have a 2006 also ... im sure 90% its a hex head bolt.. if you tried to use some kind of torx bit to remove them ,, might explain a lot...

    i think later car went from Hex to triple square heads (XZN bolt.)

    sound like you might be talking about an e-torx , but ive never seen one on a 4 cylinder 2.0T . but never know .. could be .
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphorust View Post
    I had actually done this with the first 4. Sprayed the bolt head with a water bottle to break out any loose dust, then used a hammer on the back of my ratchet to bang the torx bit into the bolt.


    Unfortunately mine is a 2006 so my harmonic balancer bolts aren't hex heads, they're circular head bolts with a torx in the middle. See here.


    My car is 20 years old and those bolts have never come off.
    Its actually a triple square bolt or XZN is the name. I found a set of stubby/low profile XZN sockets that I got for the coolant flange job. You will need them to get the crash bar off. The size is M8x16 for the crank pully bolts.

    I use to hate them, but I have never had one strip on me. I feel like Torx strips easily compared to these.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theiceman View Post
    umm i have a 2006 also ... im sure 90% its a hex head bolt.. if you tried to use some kind of torx bit to remove them ,, might explain a lot...

    i think later car went from Hex to triple square heads (XZN bolt.)

    sound like you might be talking about an e-torx , but ive never seen one on a 4 cylinder 2.0T . but never know .. could be .
    Yep they changed it because they probably realized that its hard to seat the allen bolt flush while also keeping a 12 point socket on the crank bolt at the same time, which was leading it to strip easily. That and maybe whatever metal they were using was awful.

    Still should have a secondary 6 point lip so if it strips you can get it out. The location and accessibility is about as bad as it gets and its just a total clown move by Audi. They wanted it to strip so that you would have to take it to a shop to get it fixed. They literally do the opposite with the front carrier bolts which are torx and 13mm and the water pump bolts which are 10mm and have a hex/allen center for backup but for some reason they didn't do the same with CRANK PULLEY BOLTS. Idiots

    This was planned obsolescence, just like the coolant flange and the oil filter housing.

  14. #14
    Established Member Two Rings Phosphorust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lepper View Post
    Its actually a triple square bolt or XZN is the name. I found a set of stubby/low profile XZN sockets that I got for the coolant flange job. You will need them to get the crash bar off. The size is M8x16 for the crank pully bolts.

    I use to hate them, but I have never had one strip on me. I feel like Torx strips easily compared to these.



    Yep they changed it because they probably realized that its hard to seat the allen bolt flush while also keeping a 12 point socket on the crank bolt at the same time, which was leading it to strip easily. That and maybe whatever metal they were using was awful.

    Still should have a secondary 6 point lip so if it strips you can get it out. The location and accessibility is about as bad as it gets and its just a total clown move by Audi. They wanted it to strip so that you would have to take it to a shop to get it fixed. They literally do the opposite with the front carrier bolts which are torx and 13mm and the water pump bolts which are 10mm and have a hex/allen center for backup but for some reason they didn't do the same with CRANK PULLEY BOLTS. Idiots

    This was planned obsolescence, just like the coolant flange and the oil filter housing.


    Yeah I checked my old bolts and sure enough you're right, they're tripe squares. I just misremembered since its been 12-20F here in new england and i havent been in the garage because its TOO FUCKING COLD. I hate this region catch me in texas

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