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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings HibiscusB5_A4's Avatar
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    Sep 27 2020
    AZ Member #
    566773
    My Garage
    2001 B5 A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Redlands/Fairfield CA

    Interesting Wiring Event..

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    2001 B5 A4 1.8T 5spd for reference.

    Coming home today I pulled into my parking space and went to turn the key to the off position and the car remained running as if I hadn't done anything. I brought the key back up to the on position and brought it back down to off and engine shut off. However following that I was playing musical lights with the cluster indication lights and LCD screen and the position of my driver and passenger door. when the doors were open the cluster lights went away (as if I had shut my doors with ignition off) and when I shut the doors they came on again.. (as if key is in accessory mode) did this back and forth for maybe 20 seconds until the cluster lights were off with the doors shut. I tried to lock the car with the doors shut and the cluster lights on during this and the fob lock button did not do anything. But when I finally got the lights and doors to cooperate the lock worked flawlessly. I came back out to the car about 30 minutes later to grab my backpack and it was acting fine (no key in ignition or anything just opened rear door to grab my bag and locked it up as normal).

    My obvious assumption is my ignition switch at my steering column has thrown in the towel at 24 years and 235,000 miles..? Could it be anything else? I will have time this weekend to reassess for sure perhaps a random old car fluke. Was curious on others thoughts or previous experiences that may be identical or similar. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    Jun 23 2015
    AZ Member #
    339002
    Location
    Michigan

    Maybe there is water somewhere?

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
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    Jun 30 2008
    AZ Member #
    30427
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania

    Something was keeping the 15 circuit (ignition) hot when it shouldn't be. It feels like the ignition switch to me, and that is a known failure item on the B5. Not sure about the door position thing.
    ^Don't listen to this guy, he's not even a mechanic.
    2001 Laser Red A4 1.8TQM, 5-Speed Swapped, 4.11 Final Drive, APR 93, 2.5" Exhaust, ST Coilovers, 034 RSB, A8 Brakes Front & Rear
    2006 Passion Red Volvo V50 T5 AWD 6MT
    2000 Satin Silver Passat 1.8T FWD Wagon, Slippy Tiptronic, 15" Hubcaps
    2001 Aluminum Silver Metallic A4 Avant 1.8TQM (winter sled)

  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings HibiscusB5_A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 27 2020
    AZ Member #
    566773
    My Garage
    2001 B5 A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Redlands/Fairfield CA

    I am still tackling this issue, I replaced the ignition switch and it did not resolve my issue. I have narrowed it down to a short in the wiring somewhere in the cluster, radio, or hazard wiring because they all run a constant 12v that could be shorting the ignition. My boost gauge and AFR shut off correctly based on the keys position so the ignition switch is good because the other areas in the car recognize the keys position. However now the car shuts off the engine fine and will turn off like normal, but when I bring the key back up to accessory mode after shutting the engine off and then trying to shut the car off the issues persists, although it seems to be on a timer like delay (still an abnormal amount of time to have the cluster lights on) but it always eventually shuts off as I am trying to diagnose the short (very odd and frustrating when trying to pull fuses and use a multi meter to test wiring haha).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Possibly a relay sticking and slowly turning off???

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
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    Jun 30 2008
    AZ Member #
    30427
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania

    PM me your email address so I can send you some nice diagrams for AWM engine and Power Distribution.

    It only makes sense that the 15 circuit is staying hot, because both the ECU and fuel pump relay are remaining energized. If it was just the ECU Relay or just the Fuel Pump Relay staying on - it wouldn't stay running. So it would seem that something is backfeeding power into the 15 circuit.

    Here's a list of fuses and devices that hang off of the ignition switch "15" output (and the important thing(s) it powers)
    Fuses:
    - Fuse #7 (ECU)
    - Fuse #31 (MAF)
    - Fuse #5 (Radio, HVAC Panel, Fogs, Oil Level Sensor)
    - Fuse #6 (Central Locking)
    Devices (direct, not via fuse):
    - Fuel Pump Relay
    - Instrument Cluster
    - Trans Control Module (if equipped)
    - Window/Sunroof motors
    - Brake Boost Pump Relay (2001.5 only)
    - Airbag Module

    I think I am most suspect of something on Fuse 5, Fuse 6 or the Instrument cluster. I'd probably start by reproducing the problem and yanking those fuses to see if anything changes.

    Edit: Interestingly, this behavior is a feature associated with a Turbo Timer. I'm assuming that you have no such device, however. Are there any other modifiications, such as Remote Start or security systems?
    Last edited by walky_talky20; 12-09-2024 at 11:27 AM.
    ^Don't listen to this guy, he's not even a mechanic.
    2001 Laser Red A4 1.8TQM, 5-Speed Swapped, 4.11 Final Drive, APR 93, 2.5" Exhaust, ST Coilovers, 034 RSB, A8 Brakes Front & Rear
    2006 Passion Red Volvo V50 T5 AWD 6MT
    2000 Satin Silver Passat 1.8T FWD Wagon, Slippy Tiptronic, 15" Hubcaps
    2001 Aluminum Silver Metallic A4 Avant 1.8TQM (winter sled)

  6. #6
    Established Member Two Rings HibiscusB5_A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 27 2020
    AZ Member #
    566773
    My Garage
    2001 B5 A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Redlands/Fairfield CA

    First off, Thank you for the detailed assist! I really appreciate this! I will try to recreate and attempt to pull those fuses you mentioned of most suspect. I do not run a Turbo Timer of any sort nor remote start or security system.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 30 2008
    AZ Member #
    30427
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania

    Diagrams sent.
    ^Don't listen to this guy, he's not even a mechanic.
    2001 Laser Red A4 1.8TQM, 5-Speed Swapped, 4.11 Final Drive, APR 93, 2.5" Exhaust, ST Coilovers, 034 RSB, A8 Brakes Front & Rear
    2006 Passion Red Volvo V50 T5 AWD 6MT
    2000 Satin Silver Passat 1.8T FWD Wagon, Slippy Tiptronic, 15" Hubcaps
    2001 Aluminum Silver Metallic A4 Avant 1.8TQM (winter sled)

  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings HibiscusB5_A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 27 2020
    AZ Member #
    566773
    My Garage
    2001 B5 A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Redlands/Fairfield CA

    Reading through them now. Found Fuse 5 and 6 in the diagrams, going to give them a look this weekend, also have a leaking rear brake line to assess as well... I am considering a daily for my daily these days.. hahahaa

  9. #9
    Established Member Two Rings HibiscusB5_A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 27 2020
    AZ Member #
    566773
    My Garage
    2001 B5 A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Redlands/Fairfield CA

    Update, took car to work shut off as normal as if no problems, went to lunch and came back to work and tried to shut the car off. This time even the engine wouldn’t shut off.. nor accessories. I pulled all recommended fuses but nothing would kill the engine or accessories. I put it in first and gently killed it and had to pull my battery. This poor car has had to readjust to the tune so many times from me pulling the battery because of this.. Anymore ideas??


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
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    Jun 30 2008
    AZ Member #
    30427
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania

    That's wild. It really sounds like your ignition switch is faulty.

    But what you are experiencing is not the common problem with these switches. Usually they either burn out the contacts that run the headlamps, or the early ones can have the "recall issue". The recall was due to the spring-loading for the start position being too weak and your wipers and headlamps would stay off after cranking.

    If you pulled fuses #5 and #6, that confirms it probably isn't the radio or HVAC.

    Have there been any wiring changes or other repairs recently?
    ^Don't listen to this guy, he's not even a mechanic.
    2001 Laser Red A4 1.8TQM, 5-Speed Swapped, 4.11 Final Drive, APR 93, 2.5" Exhaust, ST Coilovers, 034 RSB, A8 Brakes Front & Rear
    2006 Passion Red Volvo V50 T5 AWD 6MT
    2000 Satin Silver Passat 1.8T FWD Wagon, Slippy Tiptronic, 15" Hubcaps
    2001 Aluminum Silver Metallic A4 Avant 1.8TQM (winter sled)

  11. #11
    Established Member Two Rings HibiscusB5_A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 27 2020
    AZ Member #
    566773
    My Garage
    2001 B5 A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Redlands/Fairfield CA

    I have already replaced the ignition switch, The only wiring modifications have been my Boost and AFR but that was 2 years ago. And those were simple installs no major adjustments or changes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

  12. #12
    Established Member Two Rings HibiscusB5_A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 27 2020
    AZ Member #
    566773
    My Garage
    2001 B5 A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Redlands/Fairfield CA

    When I pulled the fuse for the cluster, the cluster remained on and the trip mileage was replaced with the word “FUSE” but everything else remained.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

  13. #13
    Established Member Two Rings HibiscusB5_A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 27 2020
    AZ Member #
    566773
    My Garage
    2001 B5 A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Redlands/Fairfield CA

    Interesting Wiring Event..

    I am certain I counted the fuse locations correctly as well because they matched with the key on the back of the fuse cover

  14. #14
    Established Member Two Rings HibiscusB5_A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 27 2020
    AZ Member #
    566773
    My Garage
    2001 B5 A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Redlands/Fairfield CA

    Going to try relay marked 429 in the ECM box behind the firewall and see if that may be sticking.. I am going to figure this one out for anyone in the future who comes looking with the same oddball problem haha.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
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    Jun 30 2008
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    30427
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania

    That relay directly powers the ignition coils, so it will definitely be on while the car is running in "zombie mode" (a new term I came up with for this issue ). I would only consider it "stuck on" if you confirm the relay is closed, but there is less than 8 volts across the relay coil. Note that this relay has constant battery power and the relay coil ground is controlled by the ECU.
    ^Don't listen to this guy, he's not even a mechanic.
    2001 Laser Red A4 1.8TQM, 5-Speed Swapped, 4.11 Final Drive, APR 93, 2.5" Exhaust, ST Coilovers, 034 RSB, A8 Brakes Front & Rear
    2006 Passion Red Volvo V50 T5 AWD 6MT
    2000 Satin Silver Passat 1.8T FWD Wagon, Slippy Tiptronic, 15" Hubcaps
    2001 Aluminum Silver Metallic A4 Avant 1.8TQM (winter sled)

  16. #16
    Established Member Two Rings HibiscusB5_A4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 27 2020
    AZ Member #
    566773
    My Garage
    2001 B5 A4 1.8TQM
    Location
    Redlands/Fairfield CA

    Any good way to confirm this? I already have a replacement on the way as it wasn't too expensive to find a china one for the purpose of test.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings walky_talky20's Avatar
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    Jun 30 2008
    AZ Member #
    30427
    Location
    Erie, Pennsylvania

    I mean, they are a wear item. So not a waste to replace it, really. As it is chinese unit, I would just throw the original one in the glovebox as a spare.
    ^Don't listen to this guy, he's not even a mechanic.
    2001 Laser Red A4 1.8TQM, 5-Speed Swapped, 4.11 Final Drive, APR 93, 2.5" Exhaust, ST Coilovers, 034 RSB, A8 Brakes Front & Rear
    2006 Passion Red Volvo V50 T5 AWD 6MT
    2000 Satin Silver Passat 1.8T FWD Wagon, Slippy Tiptronic, 15" Hubcaps
    2001 Aluminum Silver Metallic A4 Avant 1.8TQM (winter sled)

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